Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning 20240703

President trumps Hush Money Trial. He laid out tons of evidence during his testimony including tapes and emails and photos and calendar events. Impressive. One of trumps lawyers might win a case. Well, outside the court defending trump, he made a fraudian slip. Lets pray for our other side on this shameless prosecution. Good morning. Welcome to morning joe. Its wednesday, may 15th, along with joe, willie and me, we have the host of Way Too Early Jonathan Lemire. You know how long it took us to book him . Years to get stephanopoulos and longer to get Jonathan Lemire. He just wandered . He is a chief columnist. How do you like it . I love it. Dont give me a hard time. Ive been in this seat at least three and a half minutes. Three and a half minutes yeah. Early. Right, you were. Early. Yelling there is that. Im shocked. Im shocked that john couldnt modulate his voice. I usually do that on good morning america. Heilemann is here. Author of the book how the right lost its mind Charlie Sykes is with us. Charlie will have fun today. You know . Charlie, ill be honest with you. Charlies agent extraordinarily tough and we usually have to, like, blow our budget for two months to ever get him on but we saw something he wrote last night and we said we need to get the wisconsin badger in to take it to the fans at the courthouse. Depressing, depressing courthouse . Tight with time this morning. Former u. S. Attorney and msnbc legal analyst joyce is here and she just joined the Brennan Center for justice at nyu law as a senior. My goodness congratulations thank you. Roll tide bring it to the big apple. Yesterday, we were always talk about the fact that donald trump and his supporters say how horrible america is. We are number one militarily and economically and culturally and strong in the universities. Whackos there but universities best universities on the planet. Yesterday, a study came out that comes out anally and america had 19 of the top 25 universities on the planet and the list didnt even include the best one. Really . Alabama. What . It just means america is stronger. We got tired of being number one. Sometimes you have to take a year off. We got a lot to get to this morning. We start with, willie . New york knickerbockers 30point win last night. A lot of concerns had they ran out of gas after blown out by 30 points in indiana. It was bad. Concern with the injuries and no depth on the bench. The garden came alive last night for the Knicks Jalen Brunson had 44 points. 28 in the first half. That guy Isaiah Hartenstein was incredible on the boards. They are all heart, john heilemann. Were you there . I was not but watching with george and lucy on the couch. What an effort. Were you there . I was not but ill be there on sunday night if there is a game sunday night. You know a guy . I do. Larry . Ill say they were all hard. Tom thibodeau is great coach but the concern is he runs his players into the ground and they are great players and that was the concern coming out of mothers day massacre. But, yesterday, man. They were on fire. Jalen brunson keeps making the case for hes as good as anybody in the league and in the nba. His fourth time going over 40 points in the playoffs. He was worn down on sunday. Msg is a special place and that crowd carried the knicks. They rolled over the pacers. Look. Winning game six in indy will be hard. A series the home team has Won Every Game so far but you feel pretty good about a game seven. You believe in these guys the way they play. They were left in dead for indy and momentum In Indianapolis but a season worths of evidence saying dont give up and they play too hard and too together and good last night. We said yesterday when people were freaking out. When there was the Memorial Day Massacre and celtics went into l. A. And absolutely crushed them and i think game two, game one or game two of the 85 series, lakers came back and won. You got to play all seven and put it behind them. A guy who wishes he could put something behind him. You know where we are going . Are we going to the trump trial . Hush money criminal trial . In realtime, mika and i were watching the brady roast with a friend everybody was laughing. We are doing this. No. I was like why is he doing this . Right . You got to help the pacing of the story, sweetie. Im talking to the jury here. We saw it. We were laughing and then as we walked across to our house, which we did, we looked at each other and go, did he forget that he has kids and hes got a mother of the kids. And friends . And friends. We figured that out in realtime. I think most other parents who saw that figured that out in realtime. I really am completely shocked that it took tom brady this long and the backlash that he had to figure out that this was horrible. What is going on there . Especially when he is angry when they tell a joke about, the guy we love, but his billionaire owner, but let some skewer the mother of his children and his children. Yeah. Gisele and bridget moynahan, the mother of his son went after him. Dude, why are you doing this . How much is enough . They are pay him 25 million. He just find 400 Hundred Million contract, he doesnt need 5 million. What does fox sports think about their 400 Million Dollar investment . Im dead serious. We are cheering for tom brady and everybody likes tom brady but, seriously, who is around him . I want to know who is around him. Like, does he listen to anybody . This is something no. Youve got to have people around you that protect you that say, no, tom, dont do that. No, tom, if youre going to make a statement, dont say how sorry you are and say finish with i hope everybody had a great time. Who is around this guy . We blame you, Jonathan Lemire i can tell im getting the brunt of this. He didnt listen to me. I wouldnt have advised him to do this to be sure. To willies point i think he is transitioning his life. He is trying to humanize himself and doing a lot of ads but this was clearly a mistake. Yesterday, he said i gave an interview on podcast and said its fine to take jokes for me but i find that some of them were hurtful to the people i love the mother including his children and mother of his children. He expressed real regret about that, john heilemann. Why didnt he see that in realtime . Why didnt someone get ahead of it and say other ways to humanize yourself but not a roast. Have you ever seen these things . They are so mean. Two times in a persons life you bring the team in what are you attacked with or joked about . One of those is running for president. You got to hire people to look in your background and what the attacks are going to be. If youre doing a roast, on Live Television you got to have a team that goes what is the worstcase scenario . What are the jokes they could make about who in your life . You would think that if you had the right team doing that, you would say if youre tom brady and say, i think ill pass. The thing is, also, he did it jeff frost here is the deal, jeff. Ill do this and say whatever you want to say about me. I dont care. Make fun of me all you want and call me stupid and this and call me that and this. The second anybody makes a joke about my kids, or makes a jokes about my kids moms, im walking off the stage and youre going to be sitting there tap dancing the next two hours. Thats all he had to say. All he had to say. They would have said, okay, tom. He didnt say it. He didnt think ahead. I ask again its his responsibility but who in the hell is around him . Does he have Nobody Taking Care of him . Saying, tom, dont do this. Because, listen when i say taking care of him he is a grown man, yeah, he has been playing football since he was 8. I dont expect him to be like james carville, you know . No. Hes a football player. He needs to be protected and he needs to protect himself. Why are we talking about this right now . He did an interview with the Pivot Podcast he talked about this and he said i got out of football. He said ill be honest, im drifting around a little bit trying to figure it out and im gobbling things up. That sounds fun, lets do that. I think he now realizes he needs to focus a little bit. Here he is on that podcast yesterday. I loved when the jokes were about me. I thought they were so fun. I didnt like the way that it affected my kids. So its the hardest part about, like, the bittersweet aspect of when you do something that you think is one way and then, all of a sudden, you realize, i wouldnt do that again because of the way it affected me. Actually, the people that i care about the most in the world. What john was talking about they could have done, Go To Youtube and type in nicki glazer and i think youll know what is coming. Lordy looking very crest fallen. Does the defense rest . Ive been sitting on this one here but hes made curious decision when he made the comeback. He doesnt know what to do in his life and a mistake we should all turn the page. Speaking of mistakes, mika. Yeah. I have said for the past couple of days, as ive said for the past couple of months, that i believe now that there is a conspiracy. I do believe in conspiracies. I think psychiatrists in blue states have conspired with a the New York Times polster and said, listen. We will split the profits on Psychiatric Care if you guys will have the craziest methodology, which they always have. Maybe they are trying to make up for 20 when they skewed in bidens direction by about four or five points . But every one of these the New York Times siena polls have been widely skewed when you compared them to other polls that come out at the same time. For those who say that is not the case, we will be glad here at morning joe, as you all know, we have a betting line. We will be glad to take all comers who think that donald trump is going to win nevada by 12 points. Okay. We are going to get to that moment. First, exactly one month into Donald Trumps trial, there is new polling that finds, for the first time, the majority of americans believe the former president is guilty. In the latest yahoo news ugov national poll, 52 said he conceal hush money payments to a porn star and up four points from last month and up seven points from when the charges were filed last year. If convicted, 51 would approve of trump serving prison time and 36 disapprove putting him behind bars. Look at that, willie. I guess this isnt a far left wing conspiracy . No. Its the majority of americans. Yeah. Wait. I went to alabama. That is a majority, 51 . Yes. Once you get to 51. As for the political ramifications, the Poll Shows Trump and President Biden tied at 45 in this years election among registered voters. When asked who they would support, if convicted, trump is convicted in the Hush Money Case, if he is, biden takes a seven point lead 46 to 39 . The latest Morning Consult Tracking Poll over 10,000 registered voters finds 44 for trump and 43 for biden. That is within the polls margin of error. Separate new polling of registered voters finds joe biden leading trump in this poll. Biden 47 to 43 . We should know the margin of error is plus or minus 6 for the poll. So, so i got to say its fascinating, willie and we will get into this. The New York Times ran a few polls. They ran the New York Times siena poll which they roll off 15, 16, 17 stories that make people run around manhattan with their hair on fire and washington with their hair on fire. The New York Times ipsos poll run at the same time by the New York Times. Biden is ahead by four points nationally. Four points nationally. Not even an article about it. Any way. As for that the New York Times philadelphia polling that came out Monday Morning in the Battleground States, a lot of reaction so that as we know. Some of the most trusted polsters in the country are calling into question the methodology of the results. You think . John ralston calls trump having a 13point lead in the state, quote, bizarre. Adding that nothing remotely similar has been seen in the state in decades. The founders of Uva Center For Politics larry sabato laughed after seeing the nevada numbers and recommend others do the same. Marc caputo calls the nevada poll, quote, a total outlier. John is raising questions how biden could lose the youth vote in 24 points in michigan and winning it by 27 points in wisconsin. A Million Monkeys with a million cell phones making calls as pollsters is how you do it. Greg sargent expressed dismay and shows 20 of the likely voters polled did not vote in the last two midterms. They are likely voters . But did not vote. 20 didnt vote in the last two midterms . And didnt vote in the last general election or the last two midterms or they have never voted at all. But wait, john heilemann. There is more. People are calling saying this is a reaction to one poll. You go go back and look at the tape. We do this every time when this poll comes. Its always an outlier and the New York Times always gets 15 or 16 articles out of them that everybody rushes to because it says earth ends at 5 00. Hit link. The New York Times 15 times and hit it and they keep Writing Articles about it. Npr has found some of these voters that said you know a voter for biden before, but wait. This guy we checked the voting roll. He has never voted. Not just the people in the surveys but people, the New York Times quoted in their article. Here is one of many people we interviewed who is disillusioned and voting for trump. No record of him voting. Yeah. Okay . No. Are you feeling something, john heilemann, that you want to say . I think maybe an overreliance of voters telling the truth about things in general. Hate to say it. Reporters find this occasionally that the reporters lie. Here is what i say about this poll. If i were to ask you this question, joe, do you know anybody on either side who dont think its the case of the Battleground States that joe biden is stronger in michigan and wisconsin than he is in nevada, arizona, and georgia . It sounds about right. Ive seen some polls that shows george is close. Greg bluestein had an article im not saying its not close. Im not carry water for the New York Times or the methodology of this poll. I keep going back to the thing i try to say every time we talk about these things. I know you know this. What are the polls showing us directionally about the race . Its a different with the New York Times siena poll and you know this. The New York Times feasts on it with click fake stories like a dozen at a time. What im trying to focus on what i think people should Pay Attention to. Im focusing on the New York Times is actively shaping the election cycles where this poll comes out on a sunday and on monday, people go, oh i heard it. Im going dont be so stupid and why we are doing this. Hold on. What i hear is after the siena polls coming out, every time, everything that joe biden has done since the state of the Union Address the money he has put out and all of the campaigning is for not. No, its not. No, its not. There is one poll that is wildly skewed every time and it does shape if its a the New York Times poll versus a morning poll and the New York Times amplifies it 15, 17, times, it warps reality and everybody responds to that in the media and in the political world. All id say about this is that i agree with you. Unless you want to suggest you think is there a conspiracy at the times about this which their methodology is bizarre and larry sabato said this and others said this. Youre saying the New York Times systematically putting the polls out in a way to amplify them to drive the news circle. Cycle. Yes, i am saying that. Im curious as someone i understand your level of sophistication reading the media why you think that is true. What im trying to say is i agree with you. The best bull work against any polls outliers or anything else for people who are actually consumers of this information is to not let these any given news outlet or any given poll shape your perception of the race unduly. John, a that is not realistic. And ill tell you why its not realistically. I know people come up to after every the New York Times siena poll comes out. It completely changes the political battlefield out there for about a week, week and a half. It distorts the questions that are asked of the white house. It distorts the questions that are asked of donald trump. It distorts all of the opinion. It distorts everything. That keeps happening every month when this comes out. And then about two weeks later after the residue of the New York Times siena poll leaves, people go i think joe biden is on a winning streak. Two weeks later it comes out again and its garbage and outlier. Yes, the New York Times when they have all of these experts questioning the methodology, when they are calling 20 of the people likely voters who who didnt vote in the last two primaries or never voted before, when they are even quoting people who say they are switching their vote from joe biden who have never voted before . Im sorry the New York Times has to know what they are doing most of the voters in this country dont live in washington or new york. And certainly most of the Electoral College votes are in a different part of the country so the polls have an outside influence of the people doing most of the voting. The white house, the Biden Campaign reacted with anger about these polls and aides have been telling me the last couple of days it doesnt match up what their own internal numbers show and what they are seeing on the ground. They feel the State Of The Union was an Inflection Point in this race. They acknowledge its close and they are losing in some of the sun belt states but not by 10, 12 points and think they have work to do there and feel the blue wall of pennsylvania, wisconsin, and michigan are, right now tossups but they feel they are pretty good about where they are. Charlie sykes, youre there in michigan wisconsin, i should say. Youre in one of the states the poll suggests a tight race. Wisconsin is more consistent than others and not outlier like nevada. How do the polls match up what youre see there on the ground each and every day . Its always close in wisconsin. I certainly cant imagine that the youth vote in wisconsin would be dramatically differently than the you know what vote in michigan and pennsylvania and doesnt make sense. We are a battleground state. There have been no Significant Developments that would suggest, you know, a major shift in the dynamics toward either candidate at this particular time. I think wisconsin will be what it is in every election. By the way, anything about this election is predictable i have to say, joe, i gave up obsessing over polls for lent and decided that im not going back. I got about 24 years of scars. Charlie, i do, too. But, unfortunately, everybody around us did not. And they are always coming up asking and they are ready to jump off of, like, window ledges. When i hear reporters going, you know, well, you know all of bidens gains, obviously, for not. It twists. One poll specifically. I dont Pay Attention to polls day in and day out, but, charlie, dont you agree this one poll specifically has a. I agree with your theory with the psychiatrists and siena poll. You can almost predict the health lines light up every Monday Morning when these polls come out. A reason why like george w. Bush one the second time, charlie. We take crazy pills. Not to pour kerosene on the fire but here is another poll this morning in the New York Times. Oh, my. They will. There have been 15 stories so far about this one poll that the smartest people in politics say has a screwed up methodology. Im distracted by the speaker johnson. Talk about a segway. She is good. Ive done this before. Shes a pro. Lets first talk about the testimony. Michael cohen was back on the stand. We turn from correct questioning to crossexamination from Donald Trumps defense team yesterday. What were your takeaways in court . Early time and another full day of crossexamination coming. I think its safe to say that Michael Cohen exceeded expectations. He kept a Calm Demeanor and big part of this is less evidence coming out and the way the jury perceives Michael Cohen. They have to believe him in order to convict. There is too much in his testimony. If he continues on this path, you may just pull it out. It seemed to be that todd blanche, the attorney for donald trump pushing the idea that Michael Cohen was sort of a jilted former employee of donald trump and he brought up the Social Media Post, about the cheeto dust and said youre a liar and not to be trusted. Did he make a convincing argument of either of those yesterday . He may have more. Ive had a lot of cases where that is the strategy on crossexamination. And where the Defense Lawyer tries to imply that the witness is biased against the defendant. Look. These witnesses are always biased against the defendant and the prosecution handles that. The prosecution also suggested that cohen would be their last witness and we dont know if the defense is going to call any. I mean, trump still toys at the idea he may take the stand and we are all kind of skeptical at that. We have been moving to summations and could we wrap up next week . I think that is a possibility. Im a little bit surprised that we are not hearing Expert Testimony on the Campaign Finance violations that have to be proven. Its possible the defense could put on, you know, a witness that will talk about that. But Closing Argument, that is not going to take a full day, i wouldnt think. Then the jury is off to the races once they are instructed by the judge on the law. And how do you think from beginning to this point, how do you think its going for the prosecution . You know, it is tough to say. What we are doing right now is we are listening to the story of all evidence. America is obsessing linebyline over the questions. But the judge is about to tell the jury, you have to find two things. You have to find that donald trump created or caused to be created false Business Records. And you have to find that he did that with an intent to defraud and intent to commit or conceal another crime. We havent really been looking at the evidence in that Legal Framework so far but that is what the judge will tell the jury they have to do and that is a little bit different from listening to the story and saying, oh, i really think donald trump did this, which is more on those two questions, is the prosecution carrying its burden . You know, that is up to the jury, joe, as you well know. Right. From what youve seen. I mean, i think on the first one, the issue is have they successfully put donald trump in the mix . There is no doubt that off Business Records were created. We have seen 34 of them. Michael cohen, his testimony is corroborated to the extent that there are people who say meetings took place. There are Phone Records of calls. Then it comes down to do you believe him based on all of the other that is out there, right . Alan weisselberg notes. The jury doesnt have to take a huge Leap Of Faith to believe Michael Cohen. Its like taking a couple of more steps on a straight line. In a nation 77 million americans voted for donald trump, what is the possibility that the prosecution is going to get 12 people finding him guilty . You know, juries are very different than Public Opinion. Ill say as polly annish as i think it sometimes founds, as a prosecutor, youre used to looking at 12 american citizens and asking them to do their job, to listen to the evidence, to understand the law, to set aside any external noise. You seen they take it seriously. They do it and do it in public corruption cases. I think the question we are struggling with whether there is something about donald trump that is different even in the context of this jury. Do you think in the ends that Michael Cohen is crucial to this or this counterargument which is put Michael Cohen on. Do you think he is important or not important . Yeah, im firmly in the camp that believes that Michael Cohens testimony was essential. I dont think the prosecution could have tried this case without putting him on simply because of the defense would have asked for an adverse inferchs, right . If they dont put cohen on, you would assume, Ladies And Gentlemen of the jury, that something he said would be harmful to them. Do you see a path for reasonable doubt reasonable doubt to one juror. There is always a reasonable doubt reasonable doubt to one juror. Still ahead on morning joe, we are going to get the political side of trumps trial and how some of the former president s oh, my god matching ties they are all matching ties look at this i think we should all do that. Who is coordinating that wardrobe is what i want to know. That hurts me. That hurts me. Especially when this guy burgum said he would never do business with donald trump several months ago because you were judged by the company you keep. Right yesterday, he said im here voluntarily. After withholding weapons last week for israeli. We will have that ahead. Inside the strained courtship of donald trump and one of the biggest donors in the 2024 election circle. We are back in 60 seconds. Ctione are back in 60 seconds. A little bit of a gray day at the United States capitol. Republican senator Tommy Tuberville said. I like purple oh, man said he accompanied donald trump to court to, quote, overcome the gag order imposed on the former president. In an interview yesterday, the alabama senator discussed his decision to speak outside the courthouse on monday where, among other things, he called into question the citizenship. Cmon, man dope middle anguish is trying to be pushed on republican candidate for the president of the United States. That is all this is. Hes been a here a month. Im disappointed in looking at supposedly the american citizens in this courtroom. This judge pretty much got everybody hogtied, i would call, from President Trump on down and anybody on his side. Hopefully, we have more and more senators and congressmen go up to represent him and be able to overcome this gag order. We went to speak our peace for President Trump. Donald trump was joined in court yesterday by more of his allies to help him get around that gag order and among them is House Speaker mike johnson who repeated about the falls claims against him. The man second line in president he criticized Michael Cohens testimony and attacked the judges daughter on behalf of the former president. What would happen if nancy pelosi went to Hunter Bidens trial and attacked the key witness against hunter biden and then attacked the judges daughter . Lets just play that game out for a second. Walltowall coverage and full meltdown. Full meltdown. Full meltdown. Of course, she would never do it. Like the matching outfits . That is a picture there we go. Side board. This is all of the men who showed up to support donald trump yesterday. Republican congressman and governor of north dakota and doing the peoples business of north dakota in Lower Manhattan and Vivek Ramaswamy there. All wearing the same suit and same red tie favored by donald trump. What do you see in these images, charlie . I see politicians running toward what their master is demanding of them. We shouldnt be surprised but its still shocking and still amazing that you have these politicians embracing donald trump in the middle of a Hush Money Trial, and could walk out of that courtroom as a convicted felon. Its one thing for republicans to say we like donald trump because of his policies on taxes or on the border or on education but what is happening now is that its become the new litmus test and you have to embrace it all. You have to embrace the election denial, the lies. You have to embrace the insurrection and the hush money to a porn star, the multiple affairs. You have to embrace the Obstruction Of Justice. You have to make yourself part of the Obstruction Of Justice. I mean, that was one of those moments where you go, okay, we need to remind everybody that this is not remotely normal that the speaker of the House Of Representatives would show up at the felony trial supporting donald trump not in spite of his character, but embracing all of it. Then basically using his position to to violate the gag order, to say things that the judge says do not you know, this would affect the trial. Now, whether this is going to have effect on the jury, we dont know. Whether it is going to intimidate the jury, whether it is going to impress the jury. But, again, we are seeing a scene in American Politics that we have never seen before and which was unimaginable until last two days. By the way, as you guys have pointed out, so much for the party of morality and so much for the party of law and order. Former republican congresswoman liz cheney mocked mike johnson for his appearance at the trial. She posted on social media, quote. Democratic congressman jamie rask of maryland said the following, quote. World class fraudster and con man for cooking the books to cover up hush money payments he made to a porn star, to conceal his adultress affair. He talked about his world view shortly after he was elected speaker last fall. I am a bible believing christian. Someone asked me today in the media, they said its curious. People are curious what is mike johnson think about any issue under the sun . I said, well, go pick up a bible off your shelf and read it. That is my world view and that is what i believe. Joe, i know youre a bible scholar. We have talked about the bible a lot on this show at various times. I remember when mike johnson said if you want to know who i am, look at the bible. Its an incredible spectacle. Its almost more of the two things that are incredible about this, one is that the speaker of the house is doing this and the other is that its the speaker of the house willing to come down here and stand up for donald trump. Its like he has no memory of things he just say just he doesnt remember the things he said a few months ago. My parents did drag me to church four times a week. That makes you a bible scholar. I loved every second of it. Charlie, here is a guy you go back to the very beginning. We criticized mike johnson for saying just look at the bible. When Mike Johnsons speakership was built on the biggest lie in American Politics. Right. Specifically, the big lie. He was the guy that went around with the signup sheet to support ken paxtons Big Lie Out Of Texas, trying to overthrow american democracy. So you could start there. You could go all the way to what happened yesterday, unfortunately. Like i said yesterday, charlie, im sure youre the same way, im cheering for Speaker Mike Johnson, just like i would cheer for speaker Hakim Jeffries and any speaker. I want them to succeed because i want america to succeed. And, yesterday, was a very, very sad spectacle for america and for an institution i love. It was a bizarre spectacle. No. Its Worth Remembering that mike johnson became the speaker because he had a coup on his resume and played a role in the big lie. The reality is that mike johnson, speakership hangs by a thread, that he depends upon the favor of maralago, that all donald trump has to do is turn on him and hes out. You have mike johnson that survived that vacate the speaker vote with democratic support, basically, showing where the real power in the Republican Party is. By the way, also not a surprise that he was fundraising off of it. We know a picture of him and donald trump live from Donald Trumps trial for the various frauds to try to raise money. But this is who mike johnson is. The somebody built an identity on his christian morality. Apparently he and his son have a monitor on one and anothers use. This is a trial about donald trump having an affair i mean, having a fling with a porn star and a playboy model and mike johnson saying im with you. Not just on taxes or with you on the border, i am with you on this and im willing to help you obstruct justice by violating the gag order. Im still thrown off by the whole thing. A little too deep in the shag carpet as they said in the 1970s. Nothing after that. Charlie sykes, please, figure out what the younguns are doing in wisconsin and michigan and a 50point swing between the two, according to the New York Times siena poll and 38 articles about that coming up in the next two days. Charlie, thank you. We appreciate it. I said on the show, i was grateful for mike johnson for finally approving aid to ukraine. The New York Times next to this poll story right here which one of 800. Important story here about russia starting to make really rapid gains in ukraine. The reason why . Because donald trump wanted to help Vladimir Putin and he froze the House Of Representatives and mike johnson was far too long. When johnson changed his mind, ive give him the benefit of the doubt just because. I think by that point, i think the responsible people in the party come to him and said, listen. We are going to get this through with or without you. But i just want to say even while we thank him for what he did, the cost of his delay, devastating to ukraine and a gift that keeps on giving to Vladimir Putin. Two quick things. As charlie said, speaker johnson paying a debt to donald trump and trump pushed off mtgs motion to vacate. This is johnson saying thank you for keeping meal at my post. However, as charlie also noted he stayed in the post because democrats came to his aid. Aftermath of his appearance in court yesterday a number of democrats and some giving interviews saying that is not happening again. He just burned that bridge. We will not bail him out if there is another effort to push him out. A consequence from yesterday. U. S. Official i talked the last couple of days watching the progress in russia say usa started to show up in the front and a process and that delay was costly. We are seeing russia take over a number of villages near kharkiv and they think advances will continue as russia sets up what they think is a Spring Summer offensive. Lets turn to gabe sherman who joins the table. Youre looking into the strange strained courtship of donald trump and megadonor jeff yass. Earlier this year, donald trump appeared to be flip on his position on tiktok, the app owned by the Chinese Company bytedance and posting on social media in march to warn against banning the platform. Compare that to his comments four years ago shortly before announcing a ban on tiktok for, quote, impairing the National Security of the United States. Take a look. We are looking at tiktok. We may be banning tiktok. We may be doing some other things. There are a couple of options. But a lot of things are happening so we will see what happens. But we are looking at a lot of alternatives. He had the time he thought tiktok was a Tbs Game Show that came on at 6 30 week nights he thought it was the metro gnome on the piano at maralago. He is supporting the Community Chinese government continuing to control political fraught he especially of younger voters. Letting the Chinese Government into our rare source of bipartisan agreement. Exactly. He shifted and he shifted, in part, because of this donald said we will see what happens. What is happening is that donald trump needs money badly. One of the campaigns real weak spots this cycle is a lack of major fundraising and donors. Jeff yass is a based in pennsylvania and largest single political donor this cycle and yet to donate to trumps campaign. He has the single largest investor in tiktok. Connect the dots. Donald trump flips his position, throws his weight behind this investment, perhaps seeking to get a donation. This boils down to a simple thing. Donald trump looks at politics through the prism what helps donald trump. Its not go ideally or pathology. Jeff yass met with donald trump at maralago a week later and donald trump put out that post on social media making the case to keep tiktok around. I know mr. Yass is a Liberty Therien who spent a lot of money to buy ads to keep donald trump from winning. He is really throwing his support behind trump . This is stating. Jeff yass came up through the world of political gambling and in gambling you try to play the sucker. He has gotten donald trump to flip his position in tiktok without having to donate to the campaign. Who is the sucker . That points how desperate the campaign is. We keep hearing and see the numbers. People keep going, you knew. I guess maybe some of the same people who do the New York Times siena poll. You know donald trump have people behind the gates. Its all talk. Yeah. He is so desperate. They are pulling people in. Any billionaire they find on the street they drag them . He only needs a few. Any way. This guy, again, he still hasnt given, has he . No, he has not given. I reported in my piece his team says he doesnt plan to give. He has the leverage over donald trump and dangling his money to get trump to flip on tiktok. John heilemann . Just give me a sense. You spent a lot of time thinking about trump and money, right . Uhhuh. Yes is like trumping trump at this point, right . Yes. He is going to betray him on the basis of your reporting. Chris christies camp and in everybodys camp he has been in. Is this desperation of trumps camp or do you know how desperate trump is in financial terms heading into the general election . He is selling bibles, we know. Selling sneakers. Again, between his legal bills and his campaigns and anemic fundraising this is a sign of desperation. If joe Biden Campaign has 100 million more on hands than the Trump Campaign. Could i ask . Could you at least take one of us with you where youre going next and please let that person be me . No. Taking my two kids. I think youre talking about going to on friday. Youre taking your kids . I am. No reason you cant swap out one kid for joe. Brady would. Can you tell us where youre going to cannes . I wrote a movie about Donald Trumps rise in new york city in the 1970s and his relationship with roy cone and called the apprentice. A Character Study about the formative years where donald trump became donald trump. Wow. And he learned that at the feet of . Of his master you know, its still hard to believe willie when youre looking at turning point, the Netflix Series on the cold war. Yes. Youre looking at these 1950s pictures of roy cohn in the middle of mccarthyism and its still hard to connect something that happened that long ago with a guy who is, is channeling roy cohn every day in front of our eyes in manhattan. It is. Hes in in the middle of that time line. To donald trump of 2024 and never apologize, always on the offensive. Do you go up to the point where roy got aids and donald trump dropped him as a friend. The whole relationship. Thats what happened. Thats incredible. Congratulations on the work. I cant wait. By the way Eli Gladstone at the Press Conference was asked about you. Judge the movie as a film. As a piece of art. Gabriel sherman, thank you so much. Well be his reading his piece online. Coming up, a former the New York Times reporter is questioning whether the Progressive Movement is actually helping people. Her book morning after the revolution. Morning joe will be right back. Back with wet amd, i worry im not only losing my sight, but my time to enjoy it. But now, i can open up my world with vabysmo. vabysmo is the first fdaapproved treatment for people with wet amd that improves vision and delivers a chance for up to 4 months between treatments, so i can do more of what i love. vabysmo works differently, its the only treatment designed to block 2 causes of wet amd. Vabysmo is an eye injection. Dont take it if you have an infection, active eye swelling, or are allergic to it. Treatments like vabysmo can cause an Eye Infection or retinal detachment. Vabysmo may cause a temporary increase in eye pressure after receiving the injection. There is an uncommon risk of heart attack or stroke associated with blood clots. 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You sing about price lock on those commercials. the price lock, the price lock. so, if you could change the price, change the name its not a lock, i know a lock. So how can we undo the damage . We could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. Their connection is unreal. And we could all unexperience this whole session. Okay, thats uncalled for. Whoa, whats that, grandpa . Look at us knuckleheads. And theyre all coming . Those who are still with us, yes. You look good. You as well. One, two three. Grandpa whats this, ellie . Your wings. Light em up gentlemen, its a beautiful. Day to fly. Wooooooo whoa on your wing, grandpa welcome back to morning joe. A few minutes before top of the hour. Our next guest questions the current state of the Progressive Movement and whether its actually helping people. In a new book titled morning after the revolution, nelly calls out major progressive actions over the past few years and explains why she, a Hillary Clinton voter who lived in progressive san francisco, decided the movement was too much and nelly joins us now. Shes a reporter and head of strategy at the free press. Also with us the president of the National Action network, Reverend Al Sharpton is back with us this morning. Nelly, welcome. Congratulations on the book. Thank you so much. When you talk about the Latte Liberals, this is something that took a while for a lot of people to figure out the disconnect, right, the disconnect lets just say it, really extreme white progressives and Black Americans, Hispanic Americans and you see it in polling, one poll after another. I think you see it in the polls because thats the reality what shes writing about is real. Those who are committed toward real progressive change moving the country forward and those who come on that are removed from the reality that were fighting and just exploit it because they want a charge, the Latte Liberals who sit up all day and philosophyize rather than deal with peoples lives. You get though Latte Liberals, oh, we dont need the old guard and two months later the families never hear from them again, the Community Never hear from them again and all they have left is the people they were told to stay away and they exploited. Formative, they dont believe in anything long range. A movement with very beautiful rhetoric that didnt want to engage with the tangible hard work with doing kind of antiracism and progress, which Invols Copromise and getting legislation don. And the movement instead said that antiracism or progress can be an internal process, that we actually instead of trying to make laws and make things better for Black Americans we can work on our internal whiteness and our internal, theres a list that came out in the book, the characteristics of White Supremacy and these lists include perfectionism, a sense of urgency, individualism, a crazy notion. Right, and fragility where they get you coming and going, if you say youre racist youre racist and if you dont say youre racist youre fragile. To follow up what rev said, what are they talking about, we went back to 2020, right, when there were all the chants mainly from white people about defunding the police. Yes. Rev and i brought up to the New York Times and the rev saw it on the ground, actually black representatives and the bronx, in brooklyn said, no, no, dont defund the police. Of course. We need more in our schools. We need more protecting our children as they walk from home to school, we need more guarding our stores, you people in park slope and you people in brooklyn heights, fine, but we actually need help. Yes. I think you had a Media Movement that said basically lets not cover this complexity, lets not cover the reality on the ground. Lets just look at the rhetoric. Lets just look at the language and the beauty of the movement and the ideals. But, the reality on the ground which i tried to do in the book, go to different scenes and go to different places and talk to people. The reality on the ground is more difficult. Lot of the protests in 2020, the neighborhoods that were burned out, those were poor minority neighborhoods. These were not the rich, white business owners. And you got to remember one of the reasons that i talked about that with joe is that in the 80s and 90s we were fighting to get more blacks in the Police Department to reform how policing was done, one was a cop named eric adams whos now the mayor. Its an idealistic for people who are removed from the ground. Yes, its more fun. Its revolution. We go you see george floyd killed two days of riots. Four days later when were fighting to get the Special Prosecutor got the case to the Attorney General what happened to those people who turned down target, the family of george floyd hasnt heard from him since then because this idea of idealism doesnt make real change. Nellie, can i ask you to branch out to other issues, where you think the Progressive Movement has maybe fallen short or not actually helping people. I think that when we talk about, when we talk about homelessness and the drug situation, im from san francisco, i have a chapter in the book and all about san francisco, anyone whos honest with them and Walking Around the city, realizes the reality on the ground is very different from what were being told. The reality is people are dying on the streets, from fentanyl overdoses. Were being told that its the progressive response to walk past someone whos Overdosing Fentanyl on the sidewalk and to know the governments taking care of them in some way nellie, what happened in oregon. Yes. The deaths, the addiction soared, they have to completely walk it back because it was an abject failure that caused more suffering. In my book, in my own transformation, realization that i was wrong about some things, not superwrong, just a little wrong, but like, i used to be for drug legalization, but if your open your eyes, you have to be honest with yourself and i think thats what a lot of the Progressive Movement hasnt done and that makes ripe for reporting. Theyre refusing to see reality. If you look another reality you see the absurdity. Do you think some of the most extreme elements of progressivism are given too much attention, amplified too much, that tiktok feeds them a narrative about israel, many of those students were there on good faith. We learn later what most people suspected. There were professionals behind a lot of it, do you think that we talk too much in the media or other places about the most extreme elements in. I think that happens for both sides. But when it comes to to the Progressive Movement, yes, very much, the Average American is really normal political, is mixed politically even, a complicated political mess, the reason the Progressive Movement has such a prominent place in our conversation is, because a lot of our American Media in the mainstream is super progressive and bought into a lot of these ideas and philosophies, so it became the Operating System of a lot of our great Media Companies. I think your point is very well taken because i consider myself progressive a lot of people are progressive but not extreme. Just like you have people on the right who arent extreme and i know people who are very conservative, who are very supportive of the Conservative Movement but they wouldnt go down and join the trumpettes in the chorus line i think thats where we got to recapture whats progressive and the real definition is progressives should be people who are getting concrete progress not just making noise. So interesting. The new book is morning after the revolution. Nellie bowles, thank you very much. Congratulations on the book. Thank you so much. Still ahead, nbcs blayne Alexander Sat down with Republican Voters in georgia, and asked them their thoughts on the criminal Hush Money Trial and whether its impacting their support for donald trump. Also ahead, mark warner of virginia will join us ahead of a hearing today on the foreign threats facing the 2024 elections. Morning joe will be right back. Be right back so this is pickleball . Pickle ah, these guys are intense. With e trade from morgan stanley, were ready for whatever gets served up. Dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. Id rather work on saving for retirement. Or college, since you like to get schooled. Thats a pretty good burn, right . Were here today to set the record straight about dupuytrens contracture. Surgery is not your only treatment option. People may think their contracture has to be severe to be treated, but it doesnt. Visit findahandspecialist. Com today to get started. reporters over here. Kev kev reporter 1 any response to the trade rumors, we keep hearing about . kev we talkin about moving . Not the trade, not the trade, we talking about movin. No thank you. reporter 2 you could use opendoor. Sell your house directly to them, its easy. kev . I guess were movin. Donald trump is entering his second month of the trial and his courthouse is becoming a pilgrim jj age for all of his supporters and wanna bee vps. This week alone we saw Vivek Ramaswamy, j. D. Vance, Michael Johnson and whoever this guy is. Like the met gala for people who dont believe in womens rights. Welcome back to morning joe. Joining the conversation we have msnbc contributor mike barnacle. Donny deutsch is with us as well. Donald trumps defense team will continue its crossexamination of Michael Cohen tomorrow as it tries to discredit the prosecutions key witness in former president s criminal Hush Money Trial. Laura jarrett has the latest. Reporter Donald Trumps defense team tearing into the prosecutions star witness suggesting that mr. Trumps selfdescribed fixer turn fierce trump critic Michael Cohen is out for revenge on his former boss. Do you want President Trump to get convicted in this case . Sure. Cohen acknowledged. Confirming he recently said the former president belongs in a cage, like an animal. Now his financial livelihood including Media Appearances and podcasts centers on trashing mr. Trump. Cohen acknowledging that hes making 3 million. Saying of his past praise of mr. Trump, quote, at that time i was kneedeep into the cult of donald trump. The defense getting cohen to admit he previously described himself as obsessed with mr. Trump. The states case largely depending on jurors believing cohens word as hes the only witness who said the former president knew his internal records were falsified to cover up cohens payment of an Adult Film Actress before the 2016 election. Mr. Trump has pleaded not guilty to those lowlevel Felony Charge and we had a very good day. I think were exposing this scam for what it is. Thank you very much. Reporter earlier today the Prosecution Questioning Cohen who told the jury these invoices seeking repayment for Services Rendered in 2017 were false records and the Retainer Agreement that he references never exist tdz. Prosecutors guiding cohen through check after check. All false statements he said because they werent for valid legal fees but reimbursements for the hush money. Cohen describing a meeting with mr. Trump at the white house in 2017 where he posed for this picture, cohen said they discussed mr. Trump reimburing him for paying off Stormy Daniels. Arranged by cfo Allen Weisselberg months earlier. I was sitting with President Trump and he asked me if i was okay. I said im okay. All right, just make you deal with allen, cohen testifying. Later said he was frightened when the fbi raided his home and office in 2018 saying mr. Trump told him dont worry im the president of the United States, stay tough. Which cohen took to me, dont flip. Cohen said he turned against mr. Trump after consulting with his family, my wife, my daughter, my son, were supposed to be your first loyalty. Hes been disbarred and convicted of lying under oath. With the Defense Zeroing in on his motives. If he was motivated by fame. Cohen suggesting thats not fair to say. Then quoting this excerpt from cohens book, quote, i want it all power, the good life, public acclaim, those are my words cohen said yes. Joining us now is andrew weisman. This continues tomorrow. But so far, how has Michael Cohen fared for the prosecution and also for the defense, your thoughts . Hes been quite remarkable. I think that, you know, a lot of us on msnbc have seen him up close and personal and he can be at times volatile and strong willed and hes not shown any of that. I was in court observing him and he was really so far hes been a model witness on direct and on crossexamination. The one thing i would note for viewers is a slight difference in my take from lauras excellent presentation, which is, Michael Cohen does give incredibly damming evidence and he has direct evidence with respect to the former president being involved in this scheme and he has direct conversations but i dont think its fair to say that he provides the only evidence with respect to donald trump and his connection to this case, i think you have to think of both direct and circumstantial evidence and theres really a mountain of circumstantial evidence and Michael Cohen isnt even the only person who has direct evidence, for instance, donald trump signs the checks for the Reimbursement Payments and its not just 130,000 its 260,000 because theyre disguising it according to d. A. As legal fees and so theres really substantial corroboration and independent evidence aside from Michael Cohen who certainly is an important witness but not a critical witness. Andrew, any sense of how the jury was reacting or not reacting, were they bored, intrigued . How he was connecting with the jury, if at all. And of course, this comes down to as joyce reminded us in the last hour the jury, their call on whether hes guilty of the two things election interference and the actual fraud with the records. Its, that seemed to be landing as opposed to the drama around their relationship thats coming out. You know, reading the jury is always a hard thing and you just never know. And so, the one thing i will say from looking at the jurors is they are extremely attentive, theyre not to dozing off like the defendant seems to be. With his eyes closed. Very frequently. Theyre looking at the witness and theyre looking at the documents as they come in. The last hour of Michael Cohens direct testimony was pretty riveting because he was looking by and large directly at the jurors and the jurors were looking directly at him as he talked about his prior crimes, what he did, how he feels about that, why he decided to plea guilty and break from what he called the trump cult. And so that was quite a remarkable moment. The Witness Stand and the jury box are very close to each other, theyre much closer than where the defendant is, donald trump, to the Witness Stand or the jury box. So they really can see each other very close and so that was certainly a dramatic moment, but you dont know until the end, we wont know and thats why certain trials are so dramatic. We dont know how this is landing with the jurors. But theyre paying close attention. Mike. We know where Allen Weisselberg is physically, hes in rikers, will he be called to the stand, given the testimony thus far involving Allen Weisselberg . Great, great question. The real issue, will there be an explanation for where he is give on the jurors, we all know that the reason hes not a witness is because hes behind bars having pleaded guilty to lying in the Civil Fraud Case where he and donald trump were found liable, its fair to infer he lead to protect himself and donald trump with respect to those charges. Its important for the jurors to know why he has not been called as a witness presumably he would assert the Fifth Amendment and not testify voluntarily, so that would happen outside the presence of the jury, i think one way to remedy this is the court can give an instruction to the jurors saying youre not to consider why certain witnesses were not called and you cannot consider that in your jury deliberations. That would apply to Allen Weisselberg and the body guard Keith Schiller who was according to Stormy Daniels right outside the room when she said the sexual encounter occurred. Hes the person who received the checks and invoices when he was at the white house with donald trump. So, the judge could explain that those not to speculate why those witnesses werent called why is keith not being called . I assume that hes somebody who the prosecutors, im speculating, a good prosecutor would try to get him to cooperate and trim to see if he would testify, i would assume that hes asserted the Fifth Amendment, we have a right to do that everybody does. Exactly. I would assume if i were his Defense Counsel thats something they would advise him to do at which point the prosecutors have to decide whether they would imnice him and not prosecute him and i can see why they might not be willing to do that knowing what they know about his closeness and involvement with donald trump. You can immunize and still lie, not tell the truth. Thank you so much. So, donnie, you know Michael Cohen very well and you have for quite some time, you observed him yesterday in the courtroom. What did you see. You know, let me just back up a little bit, anyone who thought Michael Cohen would get rattled, he was prepared for this. The thing about michael, donald trump has been through how many attorneys, yet Michael Cohen was his personal attorney for ten years and kept that job, hes really good, really good on his feet and hes also very likable. Theres something about him and the rev knows him, yes, he did this stuff for trump. You kind of feel like the guy was duped into it. I really believe hes connecting. I really believe that this is his moment and the other thing, yes, theyre going to paint him and said, yes, he lied. But everything is corroborated. They havent left anything to chance here. When you combine his ability on the stand which so far by anyones scorecard hes getting an a with the corroborating evidence rev, you know Michael Cohen as well. In the years we would deal with trump, mostly adversal he was the guy who kind of walked, look, hes not that bad of a guy. I met him, i was a little skeptical. We met at the regency and this is wide open. But he really convinced me that, you know, i was telling him everything would be all right. He said no, rev, im going to jail. Be clear. But my kids dont deserve this. I think his family turned him around. He went to jail, he would send messages and said, please call my son, which i did. He realized he was in a cult, a situation he admired somebody who wasnt worthy of that. Very much convinced with the composure and conviction in which he went on the stand he wouldnt allow them to provoke them because of his family. Hes standing up to redeem his family. When he was talking about his family the jury was very connected to him. Michael cohen back on the stand in about two hours from now tomorrow hell be back on the stand. Meanwhile, as the criminal trial nears its conclusion how the verdict might impact voters in georgia. Blayne, good morning. Reporter guys, good morning to you. This is one of the most closely watched kouptdties here if key battleground state. Perfect place to come out and talk to Republican Voters to see all of the coverage that were talking about this new york Hush Money Trial how is it impacting down there. They represent a very wide Cross Section of Republican Voters here in this county. I asked them how are they being impacted by this trial and what impact might a guilty verdict have on supporting the former president. Do you each of your support donald trump if. I do. Yes for all three of you if. Yes. Has this trial changed your opinion in. No. Its actually caused me to support him more, i just dont believe its a coincidence we have a Trial Happening in atlanta, we have one happening in new york, so the question people are beginning to ask themselves like i did, why now . Its pretty much everyone says theyre picking on him. People are tired of going after him and you see it in so many areas, its really not a big issue in the party, actually theyre really making everyone mad and they look at a big bully and the government is the bully. This is your first time casting a ballot. What is it for you that drives your support of the former president. Always fighting, defense from news, he still hasnt given up, he keeps fighting. I talk to many people who formerly eye dented as democrats they changed to independent. Theyre going to vote for donald trump. When you say they find commonality, what is that commonality. Theyve felt persecuted by the system of american injustice. Its not a stretch for them to think that trump may be a victim as well people see theres some kind of commonality between himself and all the black men who have been incarcerated and the families who have been impacted. Reporter so, you heard a lot there, that was the sum total of about three hours of conversation, but let me tell you them about the voters, the chairman of the county gop, the Republican Party here, we talked a longtime volunteer, talking to voters every single day and also in that group whos going to cast their ballot for the very first time as a current 17yearold. Really what i heard among all of them is the trial only furthers their support of the former president in many cases and a guilty verdict wouldnt impact their support. Gwinnett county, so crucial to deciding the election this november. Metro atlanta suburb, just outside the city of atlanta, the most diverse county in the state of georgia, and according to the county gop chairman this county actually has the states largest republican voting bloc, thats why theres so much focus from the national Republican Party, so much focus from locals here as well, also important to point out after 2012 this county flipped blue in 2016 and 22020 president ial races. Being watched closely by republicans and a lot of the democrats im speaking to as well this is the key to winning georgia in november. Some fascinating answer there is. Nbcs blayne alexander in gwinnett county, georgia. So fascinating to watch. Weve heard this before, donald trump, 77yearold billionaire, has a Penthouse Apartment on 5th avenue and a castle by the ocean, hes martyr and a victim of American Society and some people feel they share that with him. As we heard, a lot of young black men, rev, lot of people Still Nuclear secrets, then lie to the fbi and dont return them. Try to influence the outcome of the election by paying hush money at the last second to a porn star, come on, this is ridiculous, by the way, the reports not ridiculous, im so glad and grateful for blayne because we get an insight into what these Republican Voters are thinking but this whole idea that donald trump is, like, suffering for our sins when in 2019 when all of us around this set said, if he loses hell run for president again to protect himself from future prosecution, so he can say, we said that five years, this whole idea of people going, wait, now, why are they bringing these lawsuits now . Theyre bringing the lawsuits now because theyve been a long time coming. Yes, whats the irony of the whole thing, looking yesterday, in the office, and i see the trumpettes i call them, Michael Johnson and them standing all dressed alike, theyre standing in front of a building that donald trump had called on five young black and brown men to get the death penalty, and they were found to have not done the crime of raping a white woman in central park. They were convicted and went to jail. He said give them the death penalty. Then was found through dna that didnt do it. Donald trump said dont give them a dime. Theyre still guilty even after dna had proven they didnt. For him to be a symbol of black men in jail he wanted black boys to go to jail and wanted them executed. Hes the example of what that young lady was talking about we feel persecuted. He led the persecution of the Central Park Five. This is what he does. What he did when he first ran for president. Lot of voters said, oh, hes rich, he has gold toilets. I want to be like him. Hes doing the same trick here. Tapping into racial challenges that we face in this country and owning it with his gross trial with gross like situations where he i guess took a porn star into a hotel room, she can identify everything that was in the hotel room so either believe her or believe him. They dont care about anything. I think, donny, when you look at blaynes great reporting there, i mean, its the question is, okay, this is the reality, how does the Biden Campaign respond to that, reality . Thats a great, great question. Its hard. Biden has to stick to the facts. Lowest unemployment for the blacks in a generation. Theres something that doesnt make sense, when you look at the people of color, when you look at hispanics theyre moving to trump and i just, i always have the answers. I dont have any answer and i think theyve got to tell the real story, if i were running bidens campaign i put the Central Park Five on tour to let them tell the story all over the country trump almost cost them their lives. People who lived in new york trying to get contract, black businessmen with the Trump Organization never got one. One thing about all of the witnesses, havent seen a black person stand up and say trump is responsible for my business grow. Circling back to Michael Cohen, he told me on so many occasions racist things that donald trump said. Absolutely. The guy you know where his heart is. You know it. I think the rev actually, i think those are brilliant ideas. You walk right into it and you play the racism card i dont mean that lightly because the man is racist. He started his campaign being a racist on the birther movement. Youre right. You go pure emotion, this man, The Last Man Standing up for you. Coming up, one of the prolific writers of thriller and suspense novels with nearly 80 million books in print worldwide, thats a lot, author harlan coben joins us in studio. Thats next on morning joe. Voices of people with cidp cidp disrupts. Cidp derails. Lets be honest. All cidp sucks voices of people with cidp but living with cidp doesnt have to. When you sign up at shiningthroughcidp. Com, youll find inspiration in real patient stories, helpful tips, reliable information, and more. Cidp can be tough. But finding hope just got a little easier. Sign up at shiningthroughcidp. Com. All be heard. Be hopeful. Be you. Hi, im kevin, sign up at shiningthroughcidp. Com. And ive lost 152 pounds on golo. I had just left a checkup with my doctor, and id weighed in at 345 pounds. My doctor prescribed a weight loss drug, but as soon as i stopped taking the drug, i gained all the weight back and then some. Thats when i decided to give golo a try. Taking the release supplement, i noticed a change within the first week, and each month the weight just kept coming off. With golo, you can keep the weight off. So our next guest at 40 past the hour has written 36 books, eight of which that have adapted for netflix. Harlan cobens next book think twice continues myron bolliter. How did you write 36 books. Youre fairly young. One per year, i knew willie when he was in high school. Stop. Really . Grew up at the same time in jersey. I know all of these guys. One of the nicest people. Hes lying like a rug. Donnie. Your books just sell, sell, sell. People love them. Tell us about think twice. Serial killer, imagine someone comes to you and they say we think who the killer is, we got his dna he died three years ago and you did his eulogy. Thats how the book opens. You want an escape. Its my job we all know reading is good for us. We all know, there are studies now that Reading Books at night. Books, no scroll. I suggest calm app for 20, 30 minutes and then read a book. Im curious about your process, someone as prolific and successful as you are, john grisham said his process he walks up on january 1st goes out to the barn on his property, no wifi connection, writes five hours a day. Whats your process . I can write anywhere. You can write anywhere . When uber first started, i started writing in the back of the uber. Whatevers working. I keep changing up what i do. You write every day . I think about it every day. As im walking in here and how can i use this. Oh, no. If i want that Stud Character i got mike right here. Mikes looking good. You know whats really interesting from a personal Point Of View about all of your books my wife is a great reader, she reads all of your books, what she loves is the netflix movies based on the books how did that marriage occur, how long has it been going on and how does it happen . Are you okay with that . Youre all about them reading the books. Watch me on netflix, by the way, you married way above your station. Everybody says that. You know, netflix has been great. We made one and it really worked out. The most recent fool me once, theyre on forever. People watch it so quickly. 100 million families, or 100 million households watched eight episodes of fool me once, 100 million its All Over The World. Its been really cool to take this thing and put it on the screen, not to get to too heavy, when you go on set and you see these people, realizing its going to be in all these households i have in the back of the uber. You sold 80 million books. You talked to me once and said, you have the beginning and the end and you fill in the middle. You always start with a bang, youre like, okay, somebodys dead, oops, theyre not. Talk to me like, give me the moment of, like, i know this is happening. I got another beginning and ending. This ending is the most surprising. You said nobody is going to get it. Nobodys going to get it. I got to compete against e everything. I got to compete against you guys. A president ial candidate is on trial for paying off a porn star and the first witness is named pecker. I know. Reality is crazy these days. I got to compete with you guys. Yeah, i see it. I also need to understand how you can pull off green glasses. Have you noticed that, willie . He can pull off anything. Im amazed. If im going to sit next to donny hes an icon. The book is think twice. Harlan coben, thank you very much. Thank you. Still ahead, well move back to politics, the a look at President Bidens latest rounds of attacks on donald trump as he tries to draw a clear contrast between himself and his predecessor. Well dig into the new polling which shows a substantial bump for President Biden if trump is convicted in the criminal Hush Money Case. Morning joe is coming right back. Is coming right back oooh i cant wait for this Family Getaway shingles doesnt care. Shingles is a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. Ahhh, theres nothing like a day out with friends. Thats nice, but shingles doesnt care 99 of adults 50 years or older already have the virus that causes shingles inside them, and it can reactivate at any time. A perfect day for a Family Outing guess what . Shingles doesnt care. But shingrix protects. Only shingrix is proven over 90 effective. Shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. Shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. An increased risk of guillainbarre syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. Fainting can also happen. The most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the Injection Site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. Shingles doesnt care. But shingrix protects. Ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today. 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Wait no, no, no, no, no. [ gasps ] [ Indistinct Chatter ] [ sigh ] lets just wait them out. The volkswagen atlas with three rows of seating for seven. Everyone wants a ride. [ snoring ] ok, get in. [ Speaking Minionese ] yippee and see Despicable Me 4 in theaters july 3rd. Rated pg. Why choose a sleep number smart bed . Can i make my side softer . I like my side firmer. Sleep number does that. Now, save 50 on the sleep Number Limited Edition smart bed. Plus, 0 interest for 36 months. Shop now at sleepnumber. Com a little bit of a hold oh, brunson, are you kidding . Jalen brunson an incredible shot and move by many by Jalen Brunson last night. The knicks star scoring 44 points in reaching the 40point mark for the fifth time this season and the rebound with the blowout In Indianapolis with the 12141 win over the pacers In Indianapolis. If they can win that theyll go to the Eastern Conference Finals for the First Time Since the year 2000, In Indianapolis, thats a tall task. Donny, there is a chance we may have a Game Seven On Sunday Afternoon in Madison Square garden with the Eastern Conference Finals on the line. Theres a connection that you have to these knicks that theville nova three. They are a lunch pail, gritty team. This is the most likable team and even more likable than the early 90s teams with Anthony Mason and what not. The garden has been insane. Like theres nothing like what people forget about the garden is youre there. Its not like the other arenas like youre back there and even jonathan, this is what a big man you are that you were able to give kudos to the msg and the mecca and thattic mas you a big man. It aint the garden when the floor is sweating in the 1980s. Msg is a special place and we, maybe lets be, yeah, but we are one away and if they can take care of business against the depleted cavaliers team. Celticsknicks in the Eastern Conference Finals would be a lot of fun and fracture relationships. We should go sit together and see what happens. I mentioned this to you earlier. A celticsknicks final thats a great of matchup, but the weakness in the thing for the celtics, jonathan is the knicks, in my suspicion are a little bit tougher than the celtics are. The knicks are tough. This is a celtics team that has taken the foot off the gas far too many times especially if they get porzingis back. Lets not get ahead of ourselves, the superstitious knicks fans have to win In Indianapolis or an anything goes. The nuggets mvp, Nichola Jokic got his award. He doesnt go home, he shoots guns, he plays horses. Goes home to serbia, and he was asked after their huge win in the finals last year. He said i just want to go home. Im tired. He didnt even have time to celebrate. Last night after the mvp trophy, he scored 40 points to lead 10er have to a 11297 win in the secondround playoff series. The nuggets will try to close out the twolves on the road in game six. They won the first two games on the road in denver and some people were calling for a sweep here, but the nuggets are back in command up 32. So who is the basketball are you the basketball expert at the table . Id say willie is. You play. Let me ask you guys, ive seen the training regimens, of course, on instagram. Ive seen the training regimens that young, tall, european basketball players do from the very beginning and weve seen it over the past several years, 610, 611, 7, big men being able to move extraordinarily gracefully and being able to take threepoint shots. Are we starting to train our kids that way in the u. S. . Because here its, like, youre either a guard and youre fast and you eat and are underneath. Victor wembanyama, hes 64, and he would have been sampson, that position doesnt exist in the nba anymore. You have to be able to shoot threepointers. A lot of it has to do with threepoint shooting. Thats incredible. He would not be the force in the league because the teams are not that way, but to your point and to validate what youre saying, they play now with their face in the basket and those days are over. The game has changed. You have to be able to shoot three. Other thing that people in the league say about the guys that grow up in european here its more Team Oriented and here its more individual and what do the european guys do . They also play soccer and that helps with their footwork and that was always hakim olajuwon. I saw jokic luka. Doncic. In terms of his ability and the passing ability. Wow. Still ahead, were digging into new polling that Donald Trumps criminal Hush Money Trial may be shifting americans perception of the former president s conduct. And stick around we have big breaking news about the president ial campaign when morning joe returns. Paign when morning joe returns. Nce and i saved hundreds. Thats great. I know, right . Ive been telling everyone. Baby liberty. 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President biden laying out his terms for participating in the president ial debates this fall. Well, and the breaking news is that theyre not going to go the commission route. Donald trump has already said in the past hes not going to go the commission route. Trump said hell debate biden any time, any place. It looks like joe biden has taken him up on that. Lets see what the president s saying. Donald trump lost two debates to me in 2020. Since then he hasnt shown up for a debate. Now he want tos debate me again. Make my date, pal. Ill do it twice. I hear youre free on wednesdays. Oh nothing subtle with that yeah. That was straight down the middle. For anyone that doesnt know, that is when court is in recess. Theyve said no to the president ial Debate Commission which is something that donald trump had said in the past he was going to say no to. Correct. Trump said hed debate him any time, any place. Biden said were not going by those rules anymore. Well debate you two times. June and september are the months that the Biden Campaign is putting forth. Theyll have to come to an agreement on the actual dates. Youre right, we should remember and the 2020. Trump and the campaign savaged the commission and said were not going to do that anymore. Donald trump refused to participate in any republican primary debates. He would not be part of that. He has now taken to truth social and his media appearance saying ill debate joe biden any time he wants. The Biden Campaign said we will debate. There was never a suggestion that theyll duck the debates and now theyre coming up with terms. June and september. Theyve also said were not going to do debates after early voting has begun first of all, but secondly, the president ial commission, one of the reasons theyre not doing it. You dont play by the rules. You let this guy come with covid because you were afraid to test him and his family . Thats an absolute joke, and also we saw how donald trump crowded hillary, moved around and theyre, like, lets have a real debate . No audience. You and me. Even in the context of the commission on president ial debates historically, the debate about debates. What are the terms of the debates . Who are the moderators going to be . What are the topics . These are always big debates in every president ial year, the negotiations go on for months, eventually someone threatens to pull out and you have rules that everyone abides by. As you said, joe, i think the process in 2020 could not have been more broken if you think about what happened in that fall. Yeah. In that context with the stakes that high. Now youve seen donald trump and the way hes handled the republican debates or not handled them demonstrating that he has no respect for this process. Hes just trying to advance his own interest. Both sides do that, but this is a way for them to say, look, we are ready to call his bluff . We are debate in june. Thats not far away, and thats next month if ive got my calendar right and now there are a big set of questions. Who is going to moderate the debates . Are these debates or the duration of the debates, what will be the topics of the debates . Who will moderate them . I believe there will be no audiences and theyll step outside. Theyre not going to have screaming and theyll try to have a serious debate. Its hard to do that with donald trump, but theyre trying to seize control of the agenda here for a very important set of concerns as you said, before early voting starts. What theyre trying to do is have a real debate. I am still stuck with i hear youre free on wednesdays. Wow. Your thoughts . The best part of this announcement that was just made is that announcement that the president of the United States brief, punchy, clearly understandable and basically saying lets go, tough guy. I think thats what a lot of people are looking for from joseph biden. They just got it. Going back to 2020, donald trump pulled out in the second of three debates because it was going to be held virtually and in the middle of covid and that got us into the town halls where savannah did such a great job with donald trump. The whole process was a mess, the question now will be has joe biden called the bluff of donald trump who said any time, any place. Joe biden said here are the times and the places. Lets do it. Well see what donald trump says. Ive been refreshing the truth social feed. Trump has not yet responded. There have been doubts throughout this process whether each man would debate and we said joe biden, and both men have now publicly committed to it. Trump has backed out of such things before and well see if hell follow through. June and september. We also should note that the biden team is proposing a Vice President ial debate in july. So it would be between the Republican Convention midjuly in milwaukee and the democrats in the end of august and chicago, and there will be a total of three, two president ial and one v. P. He talks tough and then he always backs out. Im going to do this in three weeks and backs out. He backed out of every debate and refused to debate republicans and refused to debate nikki haley. So i wonder whether his people who understand the less people hear of trump the better the campaign does. I wonder if hes going to find an excuse to back out of these debates, too. I think he will definitely try to. I mean, the reality is to use i come from brownsville, brooklyn. Donald trump is a political punk. He does not want to go on stage without a cheering squad, without all of the things that he needs. Yeah. To make him feel all charged up. Oneonone. You know this because you grew up around james brown, when you Say Something stupid and theres dead silence. Right. It lands with a thud and donald trump speaks so much nonsense, there will be no crowd. Theres no crowd. To hoot, holler and laugh, and those stupid words will just hang in the air. And look stupid. And he needs all of that to do the donald trump act. To have to stand there and really deal with serious policies and answer serious questions with no way of trying to deviate and distract, he is not going to agree to this. I dont he can look at the feed all he wants, donald trump will try any way he can not to have to deal with oneonone with a real blue collar guy who didnt who was not raised as an elitist like donald trump was that needs props to try to get through. If you are just tuning in on the west coast we should play it. Well say it again. Joe biden has said he will debate donald trump in june, the Vice President ial debate in july, and the second debate in september. Said no to the president ial commission because theyre still rangeled that they couldnt enforce the rules against donald trump and they allowed him to go on stage with covid and were too scared to test him and constant eruptions and trump canceled the second debate and we can go on and on and on and this is what joe biden said and it was released at 8 00 a. M. Donald trump lost two debates to me in 2020. Since then he hasnt shown up for a debate. Now hes acting like he wants to debate me again. Make my day, pal. Ill do it twice. Lets pick the dates, donald. I hear youre free on wednesdays. Plug in to the days news. Todays a wednesday. John, if youre this is not a partisan or political point, if you actually are interested in watching two people debate substance and issues, this is the way to go. If you dont want the spectacle of the crowds cheering and the performative stuff then make these debates so painful to watch. The best debates are the ones where two state senators are standing in a tiny local news studio at podiums with the local news anchor and you actually get something out of them. It brings into focus how important the question of a moderator is going to be. It is always important and the moderators in these situations have to deal with donald trump and the way in which that we saw when he went oneonone with biden in 2020. I also think its a very modern acknowledgement of the way elections are conducted now. This goes to the voting point and worth pausing on to say it. People will say this is america will start to focus on this until after labor day or the Biden Campaign to take it out of the Biden Campaigns mouth. Whats the virtue of this . Election day is no longer the day when people vote. Many people vote on election day, but tens of millions of people tens of millions of people in america are going to vote in october and in september, stretching right. This is a proposal that says we are ready to do away with the fiction that theres only one day. Theres election day. There are many election days and to give people an ability to see these candidates at a time when they can have a discussion that is about ostensibly of matters of Grave National importance and substantive policies and they can have it outside the circuslike, potentially very charged atmosphere that will inevitably happen given the stakes in this election. The closer we get to election day the more crazy things will get. This gives you a chance to have a more debate. If donald trump will do it. A more nuanced, substantive debate before anyone has the chance to go to the polls before they see them on stage together. Donald trump doesnt want that. He doesnt want a substantive debate. I remember back in 2016 i read Donald Trumps Editorial Board interview with the Washington Post Editorial Board and he went on talking about his hands and im serious about half the time, and i read it to mika, i said this guy, hes out of his mind. Hes crazy. Mika goes, crazy like a fox. As long as hes talking about his hands he doesnt have to talk about policy and he is so ignorant on policy that thats a loser for him. You talk to the people who served with him, who donald trump appointed, who donald trump said were the best and the brightest and the most gifted and the most this and that, they will tell you now the guy was completely ignorant on policy. It was frightening. It was scary. It was depressing. If you just if you have a real debate, if you dont have a pep rally, but you have a real debate with real questions, when donald trump confuses joe biden for barack obama, when donald trump confuses and im serious, jimmy carter for jimmy connors, when donald trump suggests that joe biden can lead us into world war ii, im dead serious here, if there are people cheering and yelling and this and that, that gets kind of papered over. In this case, this is pure political death for donald trump because he will be judged on the merits, and when he is judged on the merits he always loses. Youre absolutely right in every aspect of what you just said about donald trump, and lets simplify this. The tape that we showed coming into this and we just showed it again, the president of the United States speaking very briefly, succinctly and toughly about this proposal that is on the table for two debates, just oneonone, this gives the president of the United States the opportunity to take the bully into the ring and take his lunch from him because joe biden is the tough guy here, not donald trump. Joe bidens life has been one of toughness. Look at the things that he has come back from. Look at the things that he has walked through with hunched shoulders, certainly, losing children, things like that, never asking for sympathy, just keep moving on. Thats the joe biden that people are going to see in this debate. Thats the joe biden that would scare the you know what out of donald trump. All right. Lets bring in Michael Tyler with the bidenharris campaign. Michael, if you can tell us what the thinking was here in terms of the campaign or did this come direct from joe biden and have you heard anything from the Trump Campaign . Yeah, well, good morning. Thank you for having me. Listen, the president himself did not mince word, right . He said he beat donald trump twice in 2020. Donald trump hasnt debated since. The president is happy to debate. Hes happy to do it twice, and he thinks we should do this sooner rather than later so the American People can see the stark choice thats in front of them in this election. We should do it in june after Donald Trumps criminal trials likely to conclude and after the president returns from the g7 summit and then we should have a second debate in september well ahead of early voting, so the American People can hear from both candidates before they go cast their ballots and thats what we should be doing in a 21st century president ial election. The president is ready to do so. The question now becomes will donald trump keep his word . Will he step up to the plate here . We havent heard from him yet, but well be waiting all day. Good morning. Talk to us about the thinking about cutting out the commission here and dealing with the networks. Trump has been highly critical of them in previous cycles and said he might be open to working with them again and walk us through how this will happen . It goes back to what i was just saying, the 21st century president ial campaign. There are a couple of things that matter. Number one, we have to make sure that the American People can actually see the candidates debate before they go cast their ballots. The commissions proposal did not allow for that and they were having debates well into october when early voting begins in september, but secondly now weve seen in years past two issues, right . Theyve been treating these debates more like spectacles rather than substantive conversations between two candidates that want to become president and they should be. We saw the inability of the commission to force the candidates to adhere to the rules. You had donald trump repeatedly breaking the rules and skipping out on debates and we can do it in a manner where the rules are enforceable and that the American People have the opportunity to actually hear from the candidate before they cast their ballots and thats what were doing and thats what well be able on do. Michael, you used the term spectacle and the way this is outlined would not have a spectacle. If we are able to get the debate, if donald trump will agree to this, assuming that he is not convicted before that and has to get permission from his parole officer to show up, would you talk about how removing the audiences, removing all of the games that you play on the side, but oneonone debate with a moderator would really give the issues and policies to the American People from each candidate . Thats exactly right, rev. Listen, the president said this morning he has a couple of questions he wants to ask donald trump. He wants to ask him why hes proudly bragging about the role he played in overturning roe v. Wade. He wants to ask him about the threat he posses to our democracy and he wants to ask him why he wants to return us to an economy that benefits rich people like donald trump and those are the substantive conversations that well have in a oneonone format free from the spectacle and free from the distractions and it should be yen and donald trump talking it out on the issues that the American People care about and thats what were hoping to achieve with this proposal. Michael, its holland here, you made a lot of news here and ill ask you to make a little bit more. There will be a big debate if trump accepts the proposal over who the moderators are and there is negotiation over that even when the commission has run things and put that aside for a second. Do you have any thoughts about format . Are these are you thinking one should be town hall, one should be standing or oneonone or should they both be the same . And the second is what about substance . Are you thinking for domestic issues for one and Foreign Policy issues for the other or ideas how you want to divide up the topics over the first two debates that youre proposing . Yeah, there are still details that we have to work out, no doubt about that and the top line here is we want oneonone debates between joe biden and donald trump on the issues, free of distraction, right . And so, thats what we are advocating for. Insofar as moderators, we want to make sure that the networks themselves are choosing from among the their normal roster of candidates or talent pool so theres no question over who is in control here. We want to make sure we have a conversation that is structured and on the issues that the American People care about. We want to talk about abortion. We want to talk about the economy. We want to talk about our fundamental rights and freedoms. We want to talk about the threat that donald trump poses to our democracy and make sure that the American People can hear the fullthroated arguments between the two candidates because we are confident in the joe Biden Campaign that when they hear the candidates talk about the issues of freedom and issues of democracy and who is fighting for you on the economy and theyll side with joe biden and not quite sure joe biden and his team feel the same way and well have to hear what they say. The director for the bidenharris campaign. Thank you, michael. The other question is whos going to air these debates . The commission in the past has decided which network will get which debate and that will be another item on the table. Does fox news get the debate . Do they not . So willie, let me read this from from the New York Times story by Jonathan Swan and maggie haberman. The Biden Campaign has proposed rules i love this, automatic cutting off of microphones to make sure donald trump does not blow over his time limits as he did so relentlessly during the debate in 2020. Quote, there should be time limits for answers and alternate turns to speak. We have an exchange of views and not a spectacle and not mutual interruption miss omalley writes. A candidate should only be active when it is his turn to speak to proceed with orderly proceedings. I would say who in the world would be against that other than donald trump . Hell call it a gag order. Lets play by the rules. Everybody gets an equal amount of time and nobody gets to interrupt the other. We get to actually have people talking about ideas. And on paper that is what the debates are supposed to be and absolutely never are. Never happen. That spectacle youre describing there. Donald trump cannot agree to these terms because he will be steam rolled in that format. He cant carry on with no audience cheering him on, without a friendly moderator. He cannot win that debate on the merits and the issues. He also doesnt like having the terms of a debate dictated to him and hell say sure, ill agree to that even though he said even though, any place. It will be interesting to see what his counteroffer is if he want tos debate joe biden. The guy who dodged so many debates. He hasnt debated anybody since 2020 because he lost those two debates, i guess, and he didnt want to debate the republicans. Well, well see if the Trump Campaign has a response any time soon about this, but i agree with the table. I dont think hes going to let this happen to himself because its too scary for him. Its too fair. Its actually a debate. He cant win that, but he could loud mouth his way through a situation. Hes never done that before. No. Except for every morning and every afternoon when he comes in and out of court. Coming up, as the president alluded to in his campaign announcement, today is one of the rare weekdays when donald trump is not in a new york courtroom. Well recap Michael Cohens testimony there yesterday and whats ahead for tomorrow when morning joe comes right back. We are back in 90 seconds. Donald trump lost two debates to me in 2020. Since then he has not shown up for a debate and now hes acting like he wants to debate me again. Make my day, pal. Ill do it twice. I hear youre free on wednesdays. I hear youre free on wednesdays kayak. I like to do things myself. I do my own searching. It isnt efficient. Use kayak. I cant trust anything else to do the job right. Aaaaaaaahhhh kayak. Search one and done. My fear of recurrence couldve held me back. But im staying focused. And doing more to prevent recurrence. 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Tell your doctor if you have pain or swelling in your arms or legs, shortness of breath, chest pain and rapid breathing or heart rate, or if you are nursing, pregnant, or plan to be. Im focusing on what counts. Talk to your doctor about reducing your risk. Well talk about the politics of this in a moment, but first, lets talk about the testimony, joyce. Michael cohen was back on the strand and we turn from from direct to crossexamination. There is another full day of crossexamination coming and Michael Cohen exceeded expectations. He kept a Calm Demeanor and a big part of this is less evidence thats coming out and more the way the jury perceives Michael Cohen. They have to believe him in order to convict. Theres just too much in his testimony. If he continues on this path he may just pull it out. It seemed to be that todd blanche, the attorney for donald trump was pushing the idea that Michael Cohen was sort of a jilted former employee of donald trump, and he brought up the Social Media Post about the cheeto dust and all of that and said this is program for you, effectively and youve been a proven liar before and not to be trusted. Did he make a convincing argument about those yesterday . He may have more, but what we saw yesterday ive had a lot of cases where thats the strategy on crossexamination, and where the Defense Lawyer tries to imply that the witness is biassed against the defendant. Well, look, these witnesses, theyre always biassed against the defendant and the prosecution handles that. The prosecution also suggested that cohen would be their last witness and we dont know if the defense is going to call any i mean, trump still toys that he might take the stand and were skeptical of that. Can we move into sum magdzs and next week. Thats a possibility. Im surprised were not hearing Expert Testimony on the finance violations that have to be proven. Its possible the defense could put on a witness that will talk about that, but Closing Argument . Thats not going to take a full day, i wouldnt think, and then the jury is off to the races once theyre instructed by the judge on the law. And how do you think from from the beginning to this point how do you think its going for the prosecution . You know, it is tough to say. What were doing right now is were listening to the story of all the evidence. I mean, americas obsessing line by line over the questions, but the judge is about to tell the jury you have to find two things. You have to find that donald trump created or caused to be created false Business Records and you have to find that he did that with an intent to defraud, an intent to commit or conceal another crime. We havent really been looking at the evidence in that Legal Framework so far, but thats what the judge will tell the jury they have to do and thats a little bit different from listening to the story and saying, oh, i really think donald trump did this which is more on those two questions is the prosecution carrying its burden . You know, that is up to the jury, joe. From what youve seen . I think on the first one, the issue is have they successfully put donald trump in the mix . There is no doubt that false Business Records were created. Weve seen 34 of them. Michael cohen, his testimony is corroborated to the extent that there are people who say meetings took place. There are Phone Records of calls, and then it comes down to do you believe him based on all of the other evidence thats out there, rid . Alan weisselbergs handwritten notes on an invoice, there is a lot of cor cob rating evidence. The jury doesnt have to take a huge Leap Of Faith to believe Michael Cohen and its more taking steps on the straight line. In a nation where 77 million americans voted for donald trump, whats the possibility that the prosecutions going to get 12 people finding him guilty . You know, juries are very different than Public Opinion and ill just say as pollyannaish as i think it sometimes sounds, as a prosecutor you are used to looking at 12 american citizens and asking them to do their job, to listen to the evidence, to understand the law, to set aside any external noise. And youve seen, they take it seriously. They do it and they do it in public corruption cases, and i think the question that were struggling with is whether theres something about donald trump thats different even in this context of a jury. Can i ask you two quick questions . One, do you think in the end that Michael Cohen is crucial to this or the counter argument, why did they put Michael Cohen on . Do you think hes important or not important . Im firmly in the camp that believes Michael Cohens testimony is essential. I dont think the prosecution could have tried this case without putting him on simply because the defense would have asked for an adverse inference, right . If the government has Michael Cohen available and they dont put him on, you should assume, Ladies And Gentlemen of the jury that something he would say would be harmful to them. Is there a path to reasonable doubt for one juror . There is always a path to reasonable doubt for one juror. Joyce vance, so good to see you. Still ahead on morning joe, were going to get the political side of trumps trial and how some of the former president s sycophants oh, my gosh oh, my god the matching ties look at this i think we should all theyre wearing matching underwear. Who is coordinating their wardrobe . Thats what i want to know. That hurts me. Especially when this guy, the governor, burgum said he would never do business with donald trump several months ago because you are judged by the company you keep. Right. And yesterday he said im here voluntarily. Morning joe will be right back. Morning joe will be right back oh, yeah, man. Take it from your inner child. What you really need in life is some freakin torque. What . The dodge hornet r t. The totally torquedout crossover. psst psst ahhh with flonase, allergies dont have to be scary. Spray Flonase Sensimist daily for nondrowsy long lasting relief in a scent free, gentle mist. Flonase all good. Also, try our allergy headache and nighttime pills. Republican senator Tommy Tuberville i like purple. Oh, man. Donald trump to court this week. To, quote, overcome the gag order imposed on the former president is president. He interviewed yesterday with newsmax. The alabama senator spoke outside the courthouse on monday where among other things he called it a question to citizenship come on, man. Of the jurors serving on the trial. Mental anguish is trying to be pushed on the republican candidate for the president of the United States. Thats all this is. Hes been here a month. Hes been here a month. I am disappointed in looking at the supposed american citizens in that courtroom. This judge is pretty much got everybody hog tied, i would call from President Trump on down, anybody on his side. Hopefully we have more and more senators in congressmen to go out and overcome this gag order and thats one of the reasons we went is to be able to speak our peace for President Trump. Supposed lead american citizens says senator tuberville. He was in court with more of his allies helping to get around the gag order. Among them House Speaker mike johnson who repeated many of Donald Trumps false claims about the cases against him. The man second in line criticized Michael Cohens testimony and attacked the judges taught or behalf of the former president. What would happen if nancy pelosi went to Hunter Bidens trial and attacked the key witness against hunter biden and then attacked the judges daughter . Lets just play that game out for a second. Wall to wall coverage, full meltdown. Full meltdown. Its something she wouldnt do of course she wouldnt. Alex, do we have suits, the matching outfits that do we have that . Thats the picture of the day. Cyborg from the multiverse. So this is all the men who showed up to support donald trump yesterday, republican congressman, governor of north dakota doing the peoples business of north dakota in Lower Manhattan and Vivek Ramaswamy all wearing the same suit and the red tie, the red tie favored by donald trump. Charlie sykes, what do you see in these images . I see politicians running toward the sound of the sleaze because thats what their master is demanding them. I suppose at this point we shouldnt be surprised, but its still shocking. Its still amazing that you have these politicians embracing donald trump in the middle of a Hush Money Trial, he can walk out of that courtroom as a convicted felon. Look, its one thing for republicans to say, okay, we like donald trump because of his policies on taxes or on the border or on education, but whats happening now is that its become the new litmus test and you have to embrace it all. You have to embrace the validity and the election denial and the lies and you have to embrace the insurrection. You have to embrace the hush money to the porn star and the multiple affairs and you have tome brace the Obstruction Of Justice and you have to be part of the Obstruction Of Justice and thats the moment when you say we need to remind everybody that this is not normal that the speaker of the house House Of Representatives would show up at the felony trial supporting donald trump, not in spite of his character, but embracing all of it and then basically using his position to to violate the gag order and to say things that the judge says this would affect the trial. Now, whether this is going to have any effect on the jury, we dont know, whether it is going to intimidate the jury and whether it will impress the jury, but again, were seeing an American Politics that we have never seen before which was unimaginable until the last two days and by the way, as you guys have pointed out. So much for the party of morality and the party of law and order. Well pick up on this after a short break. Coming up, how liz cheney reacted to Mike Johnsons appearance at Donald Trumps Hush Money Trial. Thats next on morning joe. E. Oh, yeah, man. Take it from your inner child. What you really need in life is some freakin torque. What . The dodge hornet r t. The totally torquedout crossover. Hi, im jason. Ive lost 228 pounds on golo. I dont ever want to go back to wearing a 4xl shirt or not being able to climb up stairs without taking a break. So im committed to golo for life. Ive struggled with generalized myasthenia gravis. But the picture started changing when i started on vyvgart. Vyvgart is for adults with generalized myasthenia gravis who are antiachr antibody positive. In a clinical trial, vyvgart significantly improved most participants ability to do daily activities when added to their current gmg treatment. Most participants taking vyvgart also had less muscle weakness. And your vyvgart treatment schedule is designed just for you. In a clinical study, the most common side effects included urinary and respiratory tract infections, and headache. Vyvgart may increase the risk of infection. Tell your doctor if you have a history of infections or symptoms of an infection. Vyvgart can cause allergic reactions. Available as vyvgart for iv infusion and also as Vyvgart Hytrulo for subcutaneous injection. Additional side effects for Vyvgart Hytrulo may include Injection Site reactions. Talk to your neurologist about vyvgart. Former republican congresswoman liz cheney mocked mike johnson for his appearance at the trial. She posted on social media, quote, i have to admit im surprised that speaker johnson wants to be in the i cheated on my wife with a porn star club. I guess hes not that concerned with teaching morality to our young people after all. Democratic congressman jamie raskin of maryland also called out the speaker sarcastically telling the daily beast, i dont understand find anything, fundamental who thinks and con man for cooking the books to cover up hush money payments he made to a porn star to conceal his adulterous affair. Do you . Raskin making a reference to johnson telling fox news about his world view shortly after he was elected speaker last fall. I am a biblebelieving christian. Someone asked me. Its curious, what did mike johnson think of any issue under the sun. Go pick up a bible and read it. Thats my world view. Thats what i believe. Joe, i know youre a bible scholar. I remember when mike johnson said that thing about how im if you want to know who i am and just look at that. Its an incredible spectacle. Of the two things that are incredible about this, one is the speaker of the house is doing this and the other thing is that its this speaker of the house thats willing to stand up for donald trump. Its like he has no memory of things that he said just apparently just a few months ago. Not a bible scholar, but my parents did drag me to church four times a week. That makes you a bible scholar. I loved it and loved every second of it, but Charlie Sykes, heres a guy, you go back to the very beginning and we criticized mike johnson for saying just look at the bible. When Mike Johnsons speakership was built on the biggest lie in American Politics. Right. Specifically, the big lie. He was the guy that went around with with the signup sheet to support kim paxtons Big Lie Out Of Texas trying to overthrow american democracy. So you can start there and go all of the way to what happened yesterday, unfortunately, and you know, like i said yesterday, charlie, and im sure youre the same way. Im cheering for Speaker Mike Johnson just like i would cheer for speaker Hakeem Jeffries and any speaker. I want them to succeed because i want america to succeed and yesterday was a very, very sad spectacle for america and for an institution i love. It was a bizarre spectacle. No, its Worth Remembering that mike johnson became the speaker because he had a coup on his resume, because he did play the role in the big lie, but you know, i mean, the reality is that that mike johnson, that Mike Johnsons speakership hangs by a thread, that he depends upon the favor of maralago, that all donald trump has to do is turn on him and hes out. So here you have mike johnson who survived that vacate the speaker vote with democratic support basically showing where the real power in the Republican Party is, and by the way, also not a surprise that he was fundraising off of it. We know with the picture with he and donald trump, live from Donald Trumps trial for the various frauds to try to raise money, but this is who mike johnson is and the hypocrisy is almost too obvious to have to mention that here is someone who has built his entire identity on his christian morality and apparently, he and his son have a deal with a monitor one anothers porn use, whatever, this is a trial about donald trump having an affair i mean, having a fling with a porn star and a playboy model and then lying about it and theres mike johnson, i am there with you. I am with you on this. Not just with you on taxes. Not just with you on the border. I am with you on this, and im willing to help you obstruct justice by violating the gag order. Im still thrown off by the whole thing. A little too deep in the shag carpet from the 1970s. Nothing after that. Charlie sykes, please. Figure out what those young uns are doing in wisconsin and why theres a 50point swing between the two, according to the New York Timessienna poll there will be an article coming up in a couple of days. Thank you, charlie. I appreciate it. I said i was very grateful for mike johnson for finally approving aid to ukraine, but the New York Times, right next to this poll story right here which one of 800, but a very important story here about russia starting to make really rapid gains in ukraine. The reason why . Because donald trump wanted to help Vladimir Putin and he froze the House Of Representatives and mike johnson was obsequious for far too long. When johnson finally changed his mind and ill give him the benefit of the doubt, just because, but you know, i think by that point i think the responsible people in the party came to him and said listen, well get this through with or without you. But i just want to say, even while we thank him for what he did, the cost of his delay, devastating to ukraine and and a gift that keeps on giving to Vladimir Putin. Yeah. Two quick things here as charlie said, speaker johnson paying a debt to donald trump. Donald trump pushed off ntgs motion to vacate. This is johnson saying thank you for keeping me in my post. As he noted, he stayed in the post because democrats came to his aid. A number of democrats saying, some i spoke to and others giving interviews to other Media Outlets saying thats not happening again. He just burned that bridge. We will not bail him out if theres another effort to push him out and thats a consequence of what johnson said yesterday and to a larger point, yes, joe. I talked to the last couple of days watching russia and the progress. The delay was costly and were seeing russia take over a number of villages near kharkiv. They think that advances gains battlefield and the efforts to undermine american elections when the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee Mark warner is our guest. Straight ahead on morning joe. Straight ahead on morning joe. Before planning the wedding your bad hip was really acting up. Then, you heard about mako roboticassisted hip replacement. It starts with a ct scan to pinpoint the problem. That becomes a personalized, 3d plan to guide your doctor during surgery. Mako can help lead to better outcomes, like less pain and shorter recovery times. The lifetime of a hip implant is limited, and revision surgery may be required. Individual results and recovery times vary. Risks of surgery include pain, infection, heart attack, stroke, death, and other serious risks. Ask your doctor for important safety information. To find a doctor who uses mako visit makocan. Com its time to get away and cache in, at cache creek casino resort, to rock and to roll. To go all out or. Go all in. With four stars and rising stars, northern californias premier casino resort is the perfect place. To do as much or as little as you want. Make your get away now and cache in at cache creek casino resort. Its a beautiful. Day to fly. Wooooo its exactly one month into Donald Trumps trial, there is new polling that finds for the first time the majority of americans believe the former president is guilty. In the latest Yahoo News Yougov national poll, 52 of adults say trump did indeed falsify Business Records to conceal hush money payments to a porn star, that is up four points from last month and up seven points from when the charges were filed last year. If convicted, 51 would approve of trump serving prison time, while 36 would be against putting him behind wars. Willie, look at that. 51 would support donald trump so i guess this isnt a far left wing conspiracy. No, thats the majority of americans. That would be wait, again, i went to alabama thats a majority, right . Once you get to 51. Joyce confirms. Fantastic. As for the political ramifications, the Poll Shows Trump and President Joe Biden tied at 45 in this years election among registered voters. But when asked who they would support if convicted, if trump is convicted well, thats not close. In the Hush Money Case biden takes a sevenpoint lead 46 to 39 . Morning joe is coming right back. O 39 . Morning joe is coming right back [coughing] copd isnt pretty. Im out of breath, and often out of the picture. But this is my story. and with oncedaily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. Because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flareups. Trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. Trelegy wont replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. Tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high Blood Pressure before taking it. Do not take trelegy more than prescribed. Trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. Call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. What a Wonderful World [laughing] ask your doctor about oncedaily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night. Former President Trump appeared to fall asleep yesterday during Michael Cohens testimony for a full half hour. Again . You know, i was excited for this trial but it seems like the only thing were accomplishing is making sure trump is wellrested before the election. And welcome to the fourth hour of morning joe. It is 6 00 a. M. On the west coast, 9 00 a. M. In the east. Lets get right to this mornings breaking political news. President biden is laying out his terms for participating in the president ial debates this fall, agreeing to debate at least twice before the general election. Take a look. Donald trump lost two debates to me in 2020, since then he hasnt shown up for a debate, now hes acting like he wants to debate me again. Well, make my day, pal. I will even do it twice. So lets pick the dates, donald. I hear youre free on wednesdays. Wow. The Biden Campaign is rejecting the Nonpartisan Organization that has managed president ial debates from 1988 and wants the debates to start sooner than the fall. The fall dates on the commission on president ial debates proposed the New York Times reports they want the debate to occur inside a tv studio with microphones that automatically cut off when a speakers time limit elapses and they want it to be just the two candidates and the moderator, without the raucous inperson audiences that mr. Trump feeds on, and without the participation of robert f. Kennedy jr. Or other independent or thirdparty candidates. The campaign is also proposing one Vice President ial debate to be held in late july. We are waiting to see if there would be a response. We were waiting to see what the response it is. Moments ago donald trump responded writing in part, ready and willing to debate biden at the two proposed times in june and september. I would strongly recommend more than two debates and for excitement purposes a very large venue, although biden is supposedly afraid of crowds, im not sure what that means. Thats only because he doesnt get them. Just tell me when, i will be there. Lets get ready to rumble. Oh, okay. Writes the former president. So he says in in moment today, doesnt want to be seen as backing down that he would agree to these two debates, perhaps with some negotiating, some sticking points in there. We have been using catch phrases as part of their debate rhetoric. Trump says hes in, but the devil is in the details here. Theres a lot that has to be worked out. Trump of course is going to need to say today that hes in, he doesnt want to project cowardly that he is cowardly, rev, but there is a lot. Venue, moderator, whether or not they do make a choice about crowds. Trump wants it, biden doesnt. The microphones will be a big issue, we highlighted that last hour. Will trump dare will trump agree to a system where he could be cut off at any time. So i dont think we should count on these debates happening, but a few weeks ago i think you would have taken a bet said there would probably be no debates, at least today there is a chance. What do you think . I think there is a chance, but i think that donald trump will try to use every trick he can to avoid debating, particularly on a oneonone without an audience, because he does not know policy, he does not know really what his presidency would mean in terms of a reelect, and he does not need to be oneonone where he cannot feed off of making audiences clap or laugh. As joe said earlier, where he gives his lines that would fall flat if its just in a studio with joe biden and a moderator. So he is not going to try in any way, shape or form to cooperate with that kind of setup. Mika, as we know, donald trump needs a crowd. He is most comfortable at his rallies, its all he does, where he has a friendly audience that echos and doesnt call or respond and he can say whatever comes to his mind. In a controlled setting where there is no crowd, a wellinformed moderator with good questions and its about policy and its about answering questions about perhaps some of his trials that are sitting in front of him, thats not a good setup for donald trump. Hes saying like john said he has to say today, of course, anytime, anyplace, lets get ready to rumble, but we will see when the negotiation starts. Court proceeding is a pretty serious proceeding and he cant even go to that without bringing in little crowds here and there. At maralago he comes out and addresses the dinner audience most nights. We should note im told now theres yet to be any direct contact between the trump and Biden Campaigns. No, just just Social Media Posts. Just a truth post. Truth in quotes. We are waiting to see when he gets a verdict in manhattan because if the verdict doesnt come into june, if hes convicted he will need the permission of his parole officer to travel to any debate. Right. Theres that. Theres a long way to go. We have no idea how thats going to turn out, but that is that is the possible outcome there. Never thought you would say that, did you, rev, a president ial candidate needs his parole officer to have to go to a debate. And have to get permission, have to show proof that your parole officer approved you going to that city. If hes talking like hes one of the guys, if he gets convicted, he is in new york, a parole officer has to approve you leaving the state. You certainly cant leave the country. Lets be real here now. He is potentially a convicted felon. Okay. They have tv studios in manhattan. We will do it here. You heard President Biden reference Donald Trumps schedule being free on wednesdays because those are the days off in his criminal Hush Money Trial. So today no court in session. Yesterday prosecutors wrapped up their questioning of Michael Cohen and the defense began crossexamination. Nbc news senior Legal Correspondent Laura Jarrett has the latest. Reporter this morning signs Donald Trumps criminal trial is coming to a close, after his defense team took a sprawling first crack at Michael Cohen. Mr. Trumps lead attorney offering jurors a grab bag of reasons to question cohens motives from money, fame and Media Attention to jealousy and a lighter prison sentence. All an attempt to argue cohen, the only witness who directly ties the former president to the prosecutions charges, cant be trusted. Can you believe ive been in here for five weeks instead of campaigning. Reporter trump attorney todd blanche first launching into cohens videos on tiktok that had criticized blanche but the judge quickly warning dont make it about yourself. Cohen depicted as a jilted former fixer now out for revenge. Blanche asserting you were actually obsessed with President Trump, werent you . Citing cohens own words in his book. Cohen also admitting he made more than 3 million off his books. Tuesdays crossexamination highly anticipated but only a small portion was spent on cohens criminal history and admitted lies under oath, and nothing on the critical testimony cohen had provided just hours before. A tedious but legally significant play by play of invoices he sent and checks he received from mr. Trump, all littered, cohen says, with false statements so that the former president could paper over how he reimbursed cohen for having silenced Stormy Daniels on his behalf to protect his 2016 campaign. The heart of the states case. Cohen going on to describe how his once tight bond with the former president frayed and ultimately imploded after the fbi raided his home and office in 2018. Testifying mr. Trump tried to reassure him, saying, dont worry, i am the president of the United States. Stay tough. Which cohen understood was code for, dont flip. Nbcs Laura Jarrett reporting. Again, day off today, the crossexamination of Michael Cohen continues tomorrow morning. Meanwhile, the white house is expected to send more than A Billion Dollars in additional arms and ammunition now to israel. The wall street journal was the first to report the Biden Administration notified congress it would move forward with the weapons deal yesterday. According to congressional aides the package includes tank ammunition, tactical vehicles and mortar rounds. This is not a part of the foreign aid package Congress Passed last month. Not known specifically when or exactly the aid will be sent to israel. The move comes less than a week after the president paused a shipment of 2,000pound bombs over concerns about israels planned invasion of rafah. The white house believes a fullscale attack there will worsen an already dire humanitarian crisis. Secretary of state Antony Blinken was in kyiv yesterday for an unannounced visit, meant to reassure ukraine that the United States remains committed to helping them fend off russias advance. Blinken met with ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy and discussed the importance of u. S. Security assistance. Congress recently approved a long delayed aid package that set aside 60 billion for ukraine. Blinken later gave a speech at a Ukrainian University about the future of the country. The coming weeks and months will demand a great deal of ukrainians who have already sacrificed so much, but i have come to ukraine with a message. You are not alone. The United States has been by your side from day one. We are with you today and we will stay by your side until ukraines security, its sovereignty, its ability to choose its own path is guaranteed. Meanwhile, the white house is reportedly worried that russias troops are gaining an edge in the war in ukraine. The New York Times reports just 18 months ago white house and pentagon officials debated whether russias forces in ukraine might collapse and be pushed out of the country entirely. Now, after months of slow Russian Ground advances and technological leaps in countering americanprovided arms, the Biden Administration is increasingly concerned that president putin is gathering enough momentum to change the trajectory of the war and perhaps reverse his once bleak prospects. In interviews american officials expressed confidence that many of these russian gains are reversible once the spigot of new arms is fully opened, most likely sometime in july. But they are hesitant to offer predictions of where the battle lines may stand even a few months from now or whether zelenskyy will be able to mount his long delayed counteroffensive next year after the one last spring failed. Of course, there was this huge delay that doesnt help the situation at all. Of course. They needed the weapons. Lets bring into the conversation democratic senator mark warner of virginia, hes chairman of the Senate Intel Committee which in just a few hours will hold a hearing to discuss foreign threats to the 2024 election. Mr. Chairman, we will get to that in just a moment, but lets start with russia. Even just this morning Vladimir Putin saying that things are improving, positions and directions every day and that things now are back going to plan for his military that may be propaganda, that may just be rhetoric, but as the chair of the intel committee, whats your sense of the way things are going for ukraine right now . Well, you guys already mentioned, you know, the sixmonth delay in us getting these arms approved was a huge mistake and thank god they are now flowing. They fully wont be all there until probably middle of the summer. The only thing the one thing that gives me heart, though, is that russians are throwing huge amounts of troops, their casualties are very high and as we saw last year when the ukrainians tried to go on offensive, the way that war is being waged, with massive mine fields and the use of drones, its a heck of a lot easier to be on defense than it is to be on offense. So if we can rush those munitions to the ukrainians, give them so they are not outgunned 10 to 1 and can respond in kind, i think they will be able to hold the line. I dont think im not optimistic at least in the coming months that youre going to see another ukrainian offensive. I think there will probably be a bit of a stabilization of the lines, but the sooner we get those bullets, bombs and air Defense Systems to ukraine, the better. And as you say, all that aid isnt approved and suddenly show up on the battlefield overnight, it takes some time to get it out there and russia is moving in toward kharkiv, the second largest city in ukraine. Switching briefly, mr. Chairman, to israel, that 1 billion aid package proposed by the Biden Administration, separate from the 14 billion that Congress Approved just last month, comes a week after the president took a lot of heat for saying he was going to withhold some of those 2,000pound heavy bombs if, in fact, Prime Minister netanyahu decided to go into rafah. Is the white house getting this balance right of continuing to support israel, while being critical of some of its decisions in prosecuting the war . I think theyre trying to thread the needle and i do think we need to continue to support israels right to defend itself, but what frustrates me is a friend, an ally of israel, is that we hear nothing from the Israeli Government about what is going to happen the day after any offensive takes place. Weve already seen, you know, the idf thought they had taken control of the north, yet because there is no governance structure hamas has reconstituted itself a little bit in gaza city. On a broader basis were seeing huge moves in the middle east in terms of saudi arabia in particular being interested in a defense treaty with the United States and potentially an alliance with israel. That would be game changing. But thats not going to happen as long as the war is going on in gaza. Were going to need after the war is over for saudi, the emirates and other nation states to help rebuild gaza. That gets tougher and tougher if the Israeli Government doesnt heed some of the warnings. Yes, eliminate hamas but we have to consider also literally the tens of thousands of civilians that have been killed. Senator, lets move to todays hearing about threats towards the 2024 election. Whats your sense as to where these threats are coming from and is the United States compared to previous cycles, are we ready for them . Im afraid were not as ready, strange as it seems, as we were in 2020. In 2020 there was active communication between the social Media Companies and the government, people i think had fresh memories of what happened in 2016. Fast forward to today, less than six months out, weve got three problems, one, its not just russia, it will be china, it will be iran. Our adversaries realize its relatively cheap to either try to cyber attack our infrastructure or, more likely, use disinformation to try to pit americans against americans. We see russia doing that realtime in many European Countries as the european parliamentary elections go along. Second, unfortunately and you guys talk about this on the show on a regular basis, americans are a lot more willing to believe crazy conspiracy theories. Things that pop up on the internet get attraction level that they never got before. Crazy things amplified by a foreign power is a problem. And then third, artificial intelligence. The ability for ai to use deepfakes where your image, my image, our voices can be completely altered is really, really challenging and we have no guardrails in place. 20 of the Tech Companies i worked with on an international basis to say they would work to try to take down deepfakes and identify those, weve got a big announcement about that in february in munich. So far i have not seen a lot of action from those 20 Tech Companies. As i said, the european elections are taking place in june, were seeing major russian interference there already. So i am worried. My hope is today will be the start of a series of public hearings to try to make just basically educate americans and say if youre hearing stuff that seems a little too wacky, maybe its not actually that candidate or that campaigns real position. All right. Chairman of the Senate Intelligence committee, democratic senator mark warner of virginia, thank you very much. Thank you, mika. For coming on this morning. And President Biden has announced a new sweeping package of tariffs against china in an effort to protect American Industries that are being hurt by beijing. Biden says the tariffs which include a 100 increase rate on electric vehicles will ensure u. S. Workers are put first and that the electric Vehicle Market is not dominated by china. After the announcement biden was asked about former President Trumps comments regarding his actions. Take a listen. Mr. President , trump said today china is eating our lunch. What do you say in response . He said china is eating our lunch, thats what trump said today. Hes been feeding them a long time. Hes been feeding them a long side says President Biden about donald trump and china. Now to this mornings new economic reading, the Consumer Price index rose 0. 3 last month, slightly lower than economists expectations. Lets bring in the coanchor of cnbcs squawk box, andrew ross sorkin, hes also a columnist for the New York Times. Andrew, what do you make of this number and also where things stand on Interest Rates, which apparently will stay the same for a bit. Yeah, this is probably the best news, actually, that weve gotten on inflation in quite some time, at least the past couple of quarters, and at least is hinting that at least directionally we will be going in the right direction. Things are you know, prices didnt increase as much as expected. Having said that, its you know, its one its one month, its one snapshot. I dont think we should get overly excited about it and the truth is in terms of how the Federal Reserve thinks about increasing or in this case lowering Interest Rates, i think theyre going to want to see several more months of this to feel comfortable doing anything like that. We heard from jay powell just yesterday, the chairman of the fed, indicating that he wasnt necessarily going to be lowering Interest Rates anytime soon. I should say for better or worse the stock market taking this very well. I think the expectation now is that maybe the fed will lower Interest Rates in september, though i will tell you some of i think the people who are closest to the fed and the close fed watchers still think that theres going to be some more time before we see lower Interest Rates, which then you talked about Mortgage Rates and everything else, its going to take some time for those to come down as well. But, again, moving in the right direction and i imagine you may hear something from the white house about it. No cuts yet, but ticking down slightly, inflation. Good news, food prices, food inflation, has been at 0 for several months now. Gas is still too expensive. Rent is too expensive as well. Rent is too expensive. I will say one of the things i dont want to say you should worry about it, but retail sales, thats youre starting to see thats coming in weaker than expected and so thats something that, you know, is indicative of what happens when things are priced too highly. So let me ask you about the story mika reported just a minute ago on the tariffs on electric vehicles to china. Wall street journal this morning saying that President Biden has started effectively a green trade war with china. Whats the reaction in the Business Community to the announcement from the president . I think for the most part, actually, the Business Community is actually quite supportive of this. I think theres a view that china has been dumping products in the United States or wants to dump products in the United States given all of the incentives and other subsidies that take place in china for so many of these products that theres a genuine concern about those products in the u. S. And so the tariffs are important to protect american businesses. You know, we heard from elon musk even about this several months ago where he said, look, you look at the evs that are coming out of china and all the subsidies to them and frankly how good they are, that they would be eating the lunch, if you will, of u. S. Auto makers if there werent tariffs in place. So i think its important. Having said that, its not a, quote, free market, if you will, but were now we have our own industrial policy around some of these issues. I would also say politically its very interesting because former President Trump has been talking a lot about his intention to slap really big tariffs on china and i think that this what biden is doing from a political standpoint is going to take some of the thunder out of that and maybe put them actually oddly in the same place when you think about some of these types of tariffs. Cnbcs andrew ross sorkin, thank you very much. Once again, always good to see you. Coming up on morning joe, a new initiative is hoping to ease political tensions ahead of novembers election. We will be joined by two of its Founding Partners, including the wife of the late muhammad ali. Thats next. Mad ali. Thats next. Its hard to run a business on your own. Make it easier on yourself. With shopify, you have everything you need to sell online and in person. You can have your inventory, payments, and customers in sync across all the places you sell. It doesnt have to be lonely at the top. Join the millions to finding success on their own terms. Start your journey with a free trial today. Why choose a sleep number smart bed . Can it keep me warm when im cold . Wait, no, im always hot. Sleep number does that. Can i make my side softer . I like my side firmer. Sleep number does that. Can it help us sleep better and better . Please . Sleep number does that. 94 percent of smart sleepers report better sleep. Now, save 50 on the sleep Number Limited Edition smart bed. Plus, 0 interest for 36 months. Shop now at sleepnumber. Com awkward question. Is there going to be anything left. Left over . Yeah. Oh, absolutely. inner monologue my kids dont know what they want. You know who knows what she wants . Me i want a massage, in amalfi, from someone named giancarlo. And i didnt live in that shoebox for years. Not just with empower, we get all of our financial questions answered. So you dont have to worry. I guess ill get the caviar. Just kidding. Join 18 million americans and take control of your financial future with a real time dashboard and real live conversations. Empower. Whats next. Norman, bad news. I never graduated from med school. What . But the good news is. Xfinity mobile just got even better now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. Plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. I gotta get this deal. Thats like 20 a month per unlimited line. I dont want to miss that. Thats amazing doc. Mobile savings are calling. Visit xfinitymobile. Com to learn more. Doc . I love it. Thats okay, we are on air, you can invite us. I will go. I will invite you. Okay. As the United States enters another bitterly Divisive Campaign season a new initiative is looking to lower the temperature and bring people together. The Builders Movement is a new nonprofit taking a multipronged approach to tackling Political Polarization and seeking consensus on hot button policy issues. Joining us now Founding Partners of the Builders Movement, Daniel Lubetzky, who is also founder of kind snacks, and lonnie ali, the cofounder of the Muhammad Ali Center and the wife of the late great boxing champ and humanitarian, muhammad ali. Its good to have you both with us, daniel, i will start with you. We were talking off break, this started yesterday, launch was yesterday, but you went from just here in the u. S. To global as well. So you all are thinking big. Whats the strategy and the goal behind the Builders Movement . The goal is to overcome all this us versus them toxic polarization and the humanization and replace it with a problem solving tool kit to try to help equip college students, young people, people in the workplace to build bridges, to build companies, to learn how to solve problems, overcome differences rather than turn us into a victim versus oppressor, hatefulfilled divide which our foreign enemies, your earlier coverage was talking about, they are having fun funding all of this division and we need to overcome that. Lonnie, where do you begin . How does it work and how can you help sort of bridge this divide that is multipronged and global . Well, i always say that it starts with us and it really is the builders is sort of an extension of the it starts with Us Initiative that daniel started many years ago to have people think with courage and compassion and try to overcome those differences. Where we go is we try to in builders to bring people together from diverse backgrounds with attitudes, different attitudes, but with the common goal of working together, overcoming differences to find Pragmatic Solutions to some of the most challenging problems we have in our society today. We have equipped that with a builders tool kit and skill set and support to help people achieve those goals. Daniel, i would argue and we talk about this on the show, this is where most people live. This is what most people want. They want to work together, they want some real solutions, they dont want to be screaming at each other on social media or on tv or anywhere else and sometimes that extremism is amplified in a way thats not representative of what it really is. So whats an example of an issue that you two looked at and said, its really time for us to come together and try to change the dialogue a little bit . Did you see something in the culture that brought you here. I will give you an example in a second but i want to build on what you guys just said. Almost everybody feels that we are people that want to become builders but were too silent, we are not taking action, what were doing with lonnie and over 250 Movement Partners across a spectrum of politics is building a tool kit so everybody can take it to their communities and then start practicing those things because social media, cable news with truly one of the small exceptions being you guys, they are all just about division and hate and you have foreign governments leading to these rigid ideologies, political stagnation, special interest, all of these disinformation. Tons of disinformation. So we have a strategy to counteract all of these leading forces with five platforms, builders media to try to counteract all of the disinformation on social media and to help keep people equip them with a way to be more critical thinkers, the builders tool kit to provide to universities. Builders network to try to help get everybody listening today with the understanding that every single day in how we treat one another and how we act in our communities and how we deploy a problemsolving tool kit we can actually be builders so we can be destroyers. Lonnie, you and i are old friends and i knew the champ very well, in fact, one of the proud moments of my life was when he called me once i started this show near at politics nation and told me im watching you, and he would watch the show. I bring him up because in many ways when i heard about this, youre continuing the work the champ really wanted. People dont talk a lot about how he traveled to Foreign Countries to negotiate for peace and to try to help hostages. That part of muhammad ali is not remembered and i think you in the center of continuing his work is really continuing the legacy of muhammad ali working along with this project. Thats very true, reverend. In fact, many years ago daniel approached muhammad with a one Voice Movement with his work in the middle east and trying to build bridges there and muhammad of course immediately signed on. But when you think about what starts with us is, its about courage, compassion and curiosity. The first thing muhammad had, he was curious, he was curious about other people, he wanted to listen and find out what their journeys were and what they were doing. Of course, he always approached everybody with compassion, but he always had the courage to speak up and to build those bridges and talk to people who, you know, others might wonder why are you associating with them, you know, that kind of thing. So unless we start to listen to one another, show that empathy and compassion for people who are experiencing pain as well, just like we are, were never going to get anywhere. And i feel that as a steward of his legacy, he would want me to be right here with daniel doing this work. If he were here and well, he would be doing it, you know, as well. So this is an extension of his legacy, you know, muhammad was always he always saw the humanity in everyone. He approached people with that compassion and realizing that we are part of the human race and he loved people. So that is one of the things that we are trying to advance here with builders is to build those bridges and find that Common Ground and approach these issues with compassion, courage and curiosity. Will, when you were asking earlier, i dont mean to evade your question, weve done the work in tennessee with citizens, within six months they had come up with eight proposals on how to overcome issues on gun safety and gun rights. We did this in wisconsin, helped equip citizens with a tool kit for how to navigate issues about abortion. Almost all of these issues they seem intractable. When you actually look at the data theres enormous hidden Common Ground. Its about us having the curiosity that lonnie is talking about to try to learn about it. How do people if theyre watching this, like what they hear, how do they access these tools. First thing is join the Builders Movement. Org and we will send you every week a tool kit and information. But Everyone Needs to understand they need to become part of the solution. You actually have to be curious. I think thats a beautiful point to all of this. Theres a lack of curiosity that leads to the divide as well. Founding partners of the Builders Movement, Daniel Lubetzky and lonnie ali, thank you both very much for coming on the show this morning. This is great. We appreciate it. And coming up, it was a big night in the wnba as Caitlin Clark made her regular season debut with her new team. We will have the insights for you straight ahead on morning joe. Joe. Heres to Getting Better with age. Heres to beating these two every thursday. 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Make your get away now and cache in at cache creek casino resort. Looks like a Beautiful Day in dallas, 8 38 in the morning. The mavs playing oklahoma city, big one tonight. Meanwhile, the wnba tipped off its new season last night and that meant the debut of Caitlin Clark. Nbc news correspondent Stephanie Gosk shows us how the rookie is already having a big impact on the league. Reporter with that layup Caitlin Clark made the first basket of her wnba career. Her debut with the fever a tough loss to the connecticut sun. Clark, a good look from three. Reporter clark shook off early nerves and ultimately ended the game with 20 points. Clark will fire. Hits the three. Reporter including four threepointers as her parents watched from the stands. Just getting more comfortable and thats just going to come with experience and getting to play with these girls. Reporter despite the somewhat rough start to clarks rookie tour its clear how much her popularity is already impacting the game. How exciting is that . Really exciting. Its so exciting. Reporter ticket sales are surging, with some teams moving their matchups against clark and the fever to larger arenas this season to meet the unprecedented demand. According to seat geek the average resale price to see the fever play on the road is 240, a staggering 133 increase from last year. Here is clark off a screen. Gets a look. Reporter fans wearing iowa and fever gear spotted throughout the soldout crowd inside connecticuts arena. Ahead of the game clark told me she was embracing the moment. What does it feel like to be in this soldout crowd tonight . Im sure there will be a lot of basketball fans here that appreciate the game, thats fun to play in front of. Reporter weeks after going first in the wnba draft clarks welcome to the pros included the premiere of her gatorade commercial. Part of an electric tipoff to an wnba season which also featured the announcement of the leagues newest team, the golden state valkaries. It is insane, the difference a year can make. The talent thats coming in is really, really great. Stephanie gosk reporting. Jonathan lemire, ten turnovers, she said right out of the gate not her best night, still scored 20 points on and off night, game high. One other thing to note, we looked for the game last night to put it on, it was on disney plus. Now disney plus and other streamers are thinking how can i get people to subscribe . Input Caitlin Clark on disney plus and get people to sign up. Shes having a massive impact, soldout arena, had a final four feel to the pregame and everything. Shes changed the game. We watched a little bit last night, too. She struggled out of the gate. She will be fine. She still scored 20 last night. Remarkable, some cities are moving to larger venues when she comes to town, playing in nbasized arenas because of the phenomenon that is Caitlin Clark. Shes going to put up terrific numbers, also coming to the last place team. Again, she will be fine. She will be fine. Also showcases some of the other amazing talent in the wnba, you tune in and see great players. Meanwhile, tom brady is expressing some regret this morning over his threehour roast on netflix. Specifically about the impact it had on his children. Nbc news correspondent emilie ikeda has the story. Reporter netflixs greatest roast of all time with nfl legend tom brady may have been a big success. He is a threetime super bowl loser. Please welcome, tom brady. Reporter but this morning the seventime super bowl champ says he will never do it again. I loved when the jokes were about me. I thought they were so fun. I didnt like the way it affected my kids. Reporter brady the 46yearold father of three speaking candidly on the Pivot Podcast, saying hes a fan of comedy shows but didnt see the full picture when he first agreed to participate. All of a sudden you realize i wouldnt do that again because of the way it affected actually the people that i care about the most in the world. Reporter the comedy special airing live on the streaming platform earlier this month featuring high profile guests including former teammates, stand up comedians and celebrities who didnt hold back against the former quarterback. When you got a chance to go 89 and all it will cost you is your wife and your kids, you have to do what the [ bleep ] you have to do. You guys know about his diet program, it is so strict but if you follow it exactly as he does you, too, can lose your family. Reporter after the roast bradys exwife Gisele Bundchen posting on instagram this mothers day about advice she learned from her own mom, writing, children are forever, you will always be concerned and want to go protect them, it doesnt matter their age. Bundchen and brady filed for divorce in 2022 after 13 years of marriage. Their split, a repeated punch line throughout the night. Hey, tom. This is great. Nice shoes [ bleep ] did you win those in the divorce . Reporter for some comedians who participated in the roast jokes about bradys children were off the table. We all just agreed like lets not throw the kids under the bus. The way i look at these things is gisele is a public figure outside of him. Yeah. So, yeah, we could talk about that. Reporter brady says he learned an important lesson from the experience. Im going to be a better parent as i go forward because of it. Nbcs emilie ikeda reporting for us there. So, mika, he went on to say if you listen to morph that interview he is in this sort of post nfl life, not an excuse, but where hes sort of like trying to find himself and reach oh, that sounds fun, im going to do that commercial, i will do that tv show, this netflix roast sounds like a lot of fun, he knew steph curry jeffrey ross that phi who puts it together and perhaps didnt think it all the way through. I think that everybody who went after his exwife, theyre hurting the kids, too. I mean but thats what those are. Somebody should have warned him. Thats what they are. Not necessary. Coming up on morning joe youve been enjoying life outside the white house . Absolutely. It is so good to get away from washington and get back to normal life, spending time with my family, enjoying roped off brunches at my livein golf prison, and disposing of top secret documents. Oh, my god, that was tony award winner laura banonti as former First Lady Melania Trump in a recurring bit for the late show. Laura joins us next to discuss her new autobiographical onewoman show titled nobody cares. We do. We will be right back. Led nodo cares. We do. We will be right back. Why choose a sleep number smart bed . Can it keep me warm when im cold . Wait, no, im always hot. Sleep number does that. Can i make my side softer . I like my side firmer. Sleep number does that. Can it help us sleep better and better . Please . Sleep number does that. 94 percent of smart sleepers report better sleep. Now, save 50 on the sleep Number Limited Edition smart bed. Plus, 0 interest for 36 months. Shop now at sleepnumber. Com vo in two seconds, eric will realize theyre gonna need more space. man gotta sell the house. vo oh. Open houses. Or, skip the hassles and sell directly to opendoor. man wow. vo when lifes doors open, well handle the house. 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The autobiographical solo comedy show covers topics such as motherhood, relationships, and even how to handle life as a recovering aunjanue. Youre recovering from this . Im recovering. I think so many women are. The Tony Award Winning actress joins us now. Congratulations on this. Thank you, i appreciate it. Its such a huge, huge effort to be doing a onewoman show. Its a comedy show that i wrote and then my friend todd amand and i cowrote the songs. Incredible. Thank you. So give us the concept of nobody cares. We do care. We care. Thanks, guys, thats why i came here. So audible actually approached me asking me if i wanted to write a show, and then they record them live and put them on their platform. Theres some things inherently narcissistic about a oneperson show, and theres so much going on in the world that every time i started to write it, i was like nobody cares. This feels insane to me, and then as i started writing it, i was like, okay, ive lived a lot of life and some people might care. Yeah. So how do you decide what to share and what not to share . I threw open the book, and now that its out there, im like ooh, maybe i should have had some of those pages removed. Its too late, but no, im really proud of it. That is or the of a thing i talk about it is going from a pathological people pleaser to somebody who can stand in my own space. I did these things, its very selfdeprecated. I never punch down. I punch this way. So many young women have come up to me i feel like you wrote this for me and women my age. And then the husbands, i hear men laughing so hard and i did not think that was going to be the case because i didnt write it for you all. Were invited. No, youre invited. Yeah, yeah. Lets take a look at another clip from the show where you confess you dont always tell the truth to your children. Take a look lord may i be forgiven i look you straight in the eye and i lie mommas a liar, momma says stuff thats just not true momma looks you in the eye and lies to you i say nuggets arent chicken, santas real and bugs dont die when i squish them its just how i carry them outside to live forever where theyre wild and free because in america everyone is so happy mommas a liar, it doesnt mean im not sincere im just feeling kind of stressed because i brought you here thats a great point. Very, very funny, and relatable for any parent. How did you as you said, open book. Did you have any pause about involving your children . What was what has that moment been like and whats reaction been like for other parents in the audience . I think other parents in the audience really relate. They talk to me about that a lot, especially the song mommas a liar because how do we like one of the lines how do i say the world is broken to a little kid. Yeah. So my children are 2 and 7, and you know, i want them to still believe in fairies and that people are good. I love that line, im feeling stressed because i brought you here. Yeah. And i am. I am actually. Thats a picture of me when im 11 years old, and apparently awaiting my husbands return from the first world war. But yeah, ive considered a lot, my daughter is 7, and the only stories i tell are the ones i asked her if i could tell, and i really tried to explain, i was like many people will see this, and she was like how many, and i was like thousands. And she was like great. Does she want a cut of the action . Dont worry, she gets it. Its all trickle down to her. Youve been in we were talking about it, 18 years old. You were in the sound of music with richard chamberlain. You have this incredible career, youve won a tony award, in ensembles for the most part. No, i was the star but continue. Well, you know what i mean. There were other cast members. Yes, other people were on stage. Other people were on stage. Even for someone like you who knows how to own a stage, is it Something Else entirely to be alone up there for a show . I dont feel alone. I dont feel alone because i have the audience. You know, i break the fourth wall, which you dont get to do on broadway. And you know, its interesting when i was 18 years old, i never could have done that because i didnt know how to be myself. I didnt know who myself was. And now ive grown into a woman who is increasingly every single day learning more and more about myself. I think to be able to share that on stage feels like a gift, and hearing the audience reaction. I mean, they are with me. Theyre like, ooh, no. Really . Its amazing. I feel like its like elizabethean england. So you get the feedback live. Its incredible. It is audience participation. Please dont yell out at me no heckling. No heckling. Ive been heckled from melania actually. I did a show, i wont say where las vegas, and i got like heckled by a man for like a solid five minutes and i was proud of myself for how i handled it. I was like i feel i really regret that you feel so bad about this. Thats not my intention, and we i tried to have a dialogue, but guess what, it didnt work. Sometimes it doesnt work. But this does. The show Laura Benanti nobody cares is playing for a limited time now through june 2nd in manhattan. A recording of the show will be released exclusively on audible on june 6th. My daughters birthday. Its available for preorder now. Tony award winner Laura Benanti, thank you so much. Congratulations. Thank you so much. Youre incredibly talented. I really appreciate you, thank you. Enjoy. That does it for us this morning. Ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a short break. Pie coverage after a short break some people just know theres a better way to do things. And some people. Dont. Bundle your home and auto with allstate and save. 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Try all new wraps from subway today. Right now on ana cabrera reports, make my day, pal. It is breaking news this morning, President Biden challenging donald trump to two debates, but this time wont be like 2020. What hes proposing and trumps response. Plus, Michael Cohens contentious cross examination,