Transcripts For MSNBCW Deadline 20240703

After tense and dramatic testimony, filled with more than a few moments that would make any one of us blush, the trump election interference hush money trial today got down to brass tacks, a flood of evidence, phone call data, texts, tweets, documents, that cast new light on the mechanics of the scheme to silence Stormy Daniels and conceal the Hush Money Payments. They set the stage for one star witness and possibly the appearance of another witness who is not on anyones list to testify. Read out loud in court today messages sent between Stormy Daniels publicist, Gina Rodriguez, and the National Enquirer editor dylan howard. These Text Messages show that those two were in talks for months about buying Stormy Daniels story. On october 7th, 2016 april 7th, 2016, rodriguez text but stormy was his mistress. Dylan howard texts back, i bet she was. Can you email me what you have on that . Few months later this exchange from june 28th, 2016. Gina rodriguez texts, she doesnt want to go on the record about it, but wants to tell the story through a source. She had sex with him. She wants 100,000. Dylan howard at the enquirer once or ongoing relationship . Gina rodriguez writes back, a couple times, and he promised her a condo and a spot on celebrity apprentice. These Text Messages show that Gina Rodriguez was being bargained down from an initial ask of 250,000. But as david pecker testified, he reached the point with this deal where he said, quote, im not bank and refused to do it, which left these negotiations in the hands of Michael Cohen and donald trump. So on october 17th, 2016, Gina Rodriguez text, were not doing the deal, the trump deal. Dylan howard replies, keith gave me a heads up what happened. Gina rodriguez, they didnt pay when they said they would and they keep trying to buy more time. Daily mail wants it bad and were doing it. The Foot Dragging by Michael Cohen and donald trump ends On October 7th the last text message from dylan howard the day before that says, quote, good news i hear. Prosecutors today also got to the actual charges at hand, those 34 Felony Counts for falsifying Business Records for the first time in the trial. The d. A. s office put each one of the allegedly false records on display for the jury. There were 11 invoices, 11 vouchers and 12 checks, all relating to the reimbursement of one of their next witnesses. Multiple sources telling nbc that Michael Cohen will take the stand monday for what is expected to be several days of dramatic testimony. Also brought up in court today, one person who looms over this case, former trump org cfo Allen Weisselberg. He signed off on the plan to reimburse Michael Cohen, also the amounts that he would be reimbursed. We saw his handwritten notes on documents entered into evidence this week. Where is he . Hes serving jail time at rikers for perjury. From nbc news reporting on this, the parties discussed whether weisselbergs Severance Agreement should come into evidence. Under that agreement the trump organize is obligated to pay him three installments by the end of the year and in exchange he may not disparage any of its officers, director or employees. Prosecutors say they want to use it to explain why Allen Weisselberg is not once. Nbc news reports this, quote, as a solution, the judge notes that it would be helpful to him in resolving this if some efforts were made to secure weisselbergs appearance. A mountain of hard evidence in the amount of documents and pretty intriguing discussions over witnesses still to come, is a prelude to a potentially explosive week of testimony next week. Its where we start with our favorite reporters, all at the table today. New york times Investigative Reporter susan craig is back, msnbc legal analyst and a former Criminal Deputy Chief at Sdny Christie Greenberg is back. Back from the cold, hard streets of lower manhattan, nbc news correspondent Vaughn Hillyard at the table and host of Politics Nation here on msnbc, the president of the National Action network, the reverend al sharpton is here. Ill start with the question, this is how mad is trump . I mean you know him. Hes furious. I mean, i think if you looked at his facial expression, believe me, lets put it this way, i dont Think Melania is going to have a great mothers day. He will be kicking walls all weekend because of he really really in a dangerous position hes in now. The time that ive known donald trump, whether we were fighting or whether he was trying to act like he was a democrat, hes delusional and the look i saw on his face today was, all of a sudden the delusions are kind of melting, and he realized this could be real trouble. I think hell be putting a lot of pressure on those lawyers hell be coming up with a different theory every second that they ought to try. Its going to be a very busy weekend for donald trump because he is, i think, a man sinking and hes seeing it and hes going to try every angle he can between now and when they reconvene next week. I feel like its a smear to shake spear to describe cohen versus trump as shakespearean, but in this element it feels like it might be. What trump will want to do or say about cohen could put Michael Cohen spent time in prison. These two men connected, cohen took care of trumps dirtiest deed, did it with seeming enthusiasm for a while. He and weisselberg sort of two of the one we know is a witness, a coming attraction, the other a giant question mark, two of the not the only men but two men who have gone to prison for donald trump. Imagine your frenemy, most folks have one of those. Take it to the next level of the white house on the line, prison on the line, one man having served time in prison for the crimes that he pled guilty to committing on behalf of that other friend slash now enemy. Thats whats on the line here. When donald trump is literally going inside the courthouse today he sees a Tiktok Last Night from Michael Cohen that includes Michael Cohen wearing a shirt of donald trump behind bars which led to an irate donald trump and attorney todd blanche saying Michael Cohen should be directed to not speak about this trial at all because donald trump is currently has the gag order placed on top of him. Hes already violated it ten times a couple of those for attacking Michael Cohen, but this is a moment here where he wants to go out and publicly defend himself and this is the same argument we saw at the end of court yesterday but about Stormy Daniels. Todd blanche making the case for donald trump that donald trump should be able to attack her because shes a witness that is now off the stand but as Stormy Daniels tweeted last night, Quote Real Men respond to testimony being sworn in and taking the stand in court. Oh, wait, never mind. Michael cohen could have that response back in return. That is an outstanding question, would donald trump take that opportunity to go on the attack against Michael Cohen in the place he would be able to do that in the courtroom. Whats interesting about Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohen, in 2016, which is what this whole trial has brought me back to, in every way, 14 or 15 republicans failed to ever understand how to get under his skin. Stormy daniels and Michael Cohen can do it as easily as the rest of us exhale. Hes triggered by the two of them. What are you expecting as someone who has covered all these players on monday . Im wondering when donald trump walks into that courtroom and Michael Cohen is there with him there, you know, this is a man who has already publicly testified up on capitol hill, whether it be on his tiktok, on his podcast, he has talked so extensively about him, but donald trump has struggled to respond. As you just said, hes struggled to respond to Stormy Daniels allegations, right. Its not like hes coming fact for fact. The same thing with Michael Cohen, and for him, will he be able to manage over the course of the week knowing that testimony will be coming up monday, tuesday, thursday, will he be able to truly sit there and will his attorneys be able to get him to resist demanding that he take the stand whether it is legally calculated or not. His lack of Impulse Control in all of this is remarkable. He went out on twitter and said im not going to say anything else. And then has continued time after time which one are you talking about . Michael cohen. Yeah. Its hard sometimes to differentiate the two. Frankly neither of them he was out on a tiktok live video with a shirt of donald trump behind bars that Donald Trumps lawyers were in court complaining about today, and there is this remarkable explaining about it. Even the government lawyer Joshua Steinglass said we cant control the witnesses. We dont have the power to do it. The judge actually said to him, you should tell them, you need to talk to them. He understand he cant control them, but there are messages that have to go out enough is enough. Donald trump he wants to respond in a political format. Hes having to realize right now the constraints of this courtroom, but its frustrating i think, particularly when youre seeing what Michael Cohen is doing, time and time again. After Michael Cohen saying hes not going to do it. He continues to poke the bear. And this is whats coming into court on monday. This is what its going to be interesting because i saw Michael Cohen in the civil setting, and i actually thought in most respects he was a very good witness. But on monday what goes to the heart of this is what hes going to be testifying about. The Hush Money Payment he paid, he has done time for this, and i think its just a whole new ball game on monday as it how this unfolds. We should not forget that Michael Cohen, despite all of the baggage, is really emotionally very, very connected to seeing some justice here as he sees it. You may remember he called me and i had prayer with him before he went to jail. This man went to jail in part on these charges. Rev, i agree with you but if hes that emotionally invested he has to show some restraint. You cannot blow it. Right. Hes going to get blamed for it. At the end of the road, that you wanted to see something, dont blow it. If i were to talk to him this weekend, im not calling him, hes called me, dont blow it. Whatever you said, if it is true, you have an opportunity now for truth to become clear in front of a jury. Right. Dont blow it. I think that his emotions are tied up. I mean i talked to you can feel it. I talked to his son while he was in jail, dont make having suffered for nothing. Now is times for you to see justice done as you tell us the story of what happened. I mean, i can feel your phone about to ring. But i mean, i think weve all talked and covered him. Weve all covered him. Long enough to know what he would say is that trump has literally savaged him and his people come up to Michael Cohen on the street and threaten his life and family, but it is a moment and i just wonder if you can go through legally what do the prosecutors need from Michael Cohen on monday . One, as you said, they need him to stop talking. The judge has outside of court. Outside of court. Save your voice from the testimony on monday. Save it up. Now its not just the prose kultsers asking, the judge said today communicate to Michael Cohen that i am asking. Its coming from me, please stop. Even in e. Jean carroll when donald trump was saying things about e. Jean carroll, defaming her during the trial, the punitive damages went up. Like jurors take notice of both witnesses and defendants. Their behavior during the trial. Its worse. But what can we expect from him . Hes going to walk us through the story. Most of the exhibits have been admitted into evidence, and so now that we have today we got the extraction from his phone, his emails, Text Messages, his contacts, and so really, hes going walk us through what were these exchanges. We know about a meeting at the white house. What happened in that meeting . Hes going to tell us directly this is the one person who can tell us heres what i talked about with donald trump in the oval office about these Hush Money Payments, in particular the Hush Money Payment to Stormy Daniels. He will lead up to it with the Karen Mcdougal payment but whats charged is the Stormy Daniels payment. We have evidenced already from david pecker about Karen Mcdougal and we have that Audio Recording which is fantastic with donald trump and Michael Cohen talking about the Karen Mcdougal payment. We need the conversation with donald trump where he has knowledge about this Hush Money Payment. Thats what Michael Cohen is going to have to do connect those dots and put it all together for us. What would the prosecutors have learned this week from a cross of Stormy Daniels that they could apply to final round of prep in Michael Cohen . Well, they know its going to be combative, right. I mean looking at how Susan Necheles came after Stormy Daniels, figure its going to be amped up times ten. Hard to imagine what that looks like, right. Its going to be very intense, very combative and i think for Michael Cohen dont get baited because theyre going to try to bait you. We saw this in the Text Fraud Trial where their whole argument was, we are here because of Allen Weisselbergs agreed and they had to make somebody the bad guy, right. Here its not going to be donald trump. Its going to be Michael Cohen is the bad guy. Michael cohen did this because hes so obsessed, this was in the opening, hes so obsessed with donald trump, and hes such a sycophant that he did that without donald trump even knowing, donald trump was too busy being president and running for president to get in the weeds. Ridiculous doesnt make sense but thats their argument. If you want to say that this was all Michael Cohen, Michael Cohen needs to focus on making sure to point where donald trump is involved and not make it about him. Make it about the evidence. Make it about donald trump and explaining this to the jury, and not about your own anger, which i understand he feels that, and he has every right to feel that, but thats not what this is about. Trump telegraphed that upon leaving the courthouse today, telling the press down the hallway that Michael Cohen, he didnt do big deals for me, he did little deals. Minimizing the role Michael Cohen played in his life. Why did you pay him 400,000. You cant have it both ways. You say you were paying him for Legal Services over 420,000, but he only did little deals . I mean, show me another little lawyer that got almost half a Million Dollars from donald trump. At least he didnt say i dont know who Michael Cohen is. Im putting that out there. That is true. That could be coming. I think the revenge narrative, which will be there, he wanted to go to washington and i did take him, sour grapes, will run against even more so than with Stormy Daniels all the documents and i want to go through, i think we have most of the exhibits, i want to go through what the jury will have seen before Michael Cohen takes i mean dont believe me, believe your eyes and ears and feels like this is the first real legal clash between the moment that trump told his supporters dont believe what you see, what you hear, read, just believe me, and whether a jury can trust their eyes and their the documentary evidence. I mean today i thought there was some real charisma in the data guy that was correcting i think todd blanche, actually got a digit wrong. These are unimpeachable data news, remind me about the pollsters. What about that. Lost. You lost. Data people know data. Right. As the one guy from at t said, i actually find this kind of enjoyable, and one of the attorneys for donald trump said, essentially god bless you, because thats tedious. I kind of enjoy it. I love it. I mean thats what it seems very strategic that cohen comes after those kinds of witnesses. Right. You want to make sure all of that evidence is in so that hes just now there to tell the story. Everybody else has been leading up to this, and hes so well corroborated by all of these other conversations that hes had. David pecker was a perfect setup to paint the picture. Hes had the conversations directly with donald trump about Hush Money Payments and catch and kill, and Michael Cohen to bat cleanup and explain how this worked with respect to Stormy Daniels. You have documents to your point about the fact that donald trump was saying this was a reimbursement, right. Him admitting that in a civil lawsuit an you have an actual conflict of Interest Form signed by donald trump saying that you are reimbursing Michael Cohen. What would those be for other than the 420,000 . Is there another amount of money . No. So again, i think there is enough in the documents, but Michael Cohen needs to just take his time and walk the jury through it. Who is the other witness . Well, now youve asked me a question i dont know the answer to. Thats okay. I mean explain the drama around this. Oh, i think i have a couple more theorys. Two more witnesses. Michael cohen is one. Hes important because hes going to walk us closer to the intent issue. The documents are really important, but we have to get intent to get a guilty. The jurys got to feel there was intent there. But the other witness, it could be an election expert, an Election Law Expert could come forward, another custodian witness. Im not sure. But thats sort of thats a mystery. Speculating, were talking about it at the end of court today and some of the speculation. Do you think trumps team knows who it is . Yes. They know who it is . For sure. Like friday to monday is about how much notice theyve been getting . That seems to be. They might not. I would think they do. The tea leaves. Chit chat. We appreciate you pulling back the curtains. Still to come more on this important but abbreviated day that ended at 1 00 p. M. Thats why we have everybody at the table. Nobody rushing in helping us talk through the first ever criminal trial of an american expresident. What this parade of custodial documents and witnesses have been able to do to advance the prosecutions case against donald trump and Trump Defense lawyers have done if anything to impeach any of it. Later in the broadcast, how triggered trump is by Michael Cohen. Well show you what weve been talking about when deadline white house continues after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. 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And we could all unexperience this whole session. Okay, thats uncalled for. Wow. Incredible, isnt it . Yeah. Well, with your home, auto, boat and rv all bundled with progressive youve got the Peace Of Mind to really wander. Yeah. Yeah, i just hope it stays this way. Once word gets out about these places they tend to are you done . Aaand there it is. Well, at least your vehicles are protected. Lets hit the road. Hey fam im just at this Beautiful Lake that i just discovered. Practicing gratitude, manifesting abundance. As exhibit 5a to my testimony shows i am providing a copy of a 35,000 check that President Trump personally signed from his personal bank account on august 1st of 2017. When he was president of the United States. Pursuant to the coverup which was the basis of my guilty plea to reimburse me, the word used by mr. Trumps tv lawyer for the illegal hush money i paid on his behalf. This 35,000 check was one of 11 Check Installments that was paid throughout the year while he was president. Other checks to reimburse me for the Hush Money Payments were signed by donald trump jr. And Allen Weisselberg. You see for that example 5b. The president of the United States thus wrote a personal check for the payment of hush money as part of a criminal scheme to violate Campaign Finance laws. Michael cohen shouldnt be underestimated in terms of his capacity to do that, to be calm, to be restrained, and to tie his knowledge of trumps role to the documents in his possession. Thats what hell do at least on direct, on monday. I think what theyre going to do and its interesting that it sounds like they plan to be done, the governments case plans to be wrapped up by the end of the week. That is three days of testimony. That sounds tight to me, especially if that includes the cross and sounds like and i think they would be smart to do it very much to tie Michael Cohen to the documents now. Like that. Keep it tight. Right. He knows about the checks. He can talk to the checks and continue to bring him back to things already in evidence, particularly the documents. Thats where i sense its going. And to keep it, you know, who knows whats going to happen on cross. Thats going to be anyones guess. And a wild time. But i think what the government is almost certainly what theyre going to do. Explain all the conversation about Allen Weisselberg and what is this Severance Agreement say and why is this important . There was a question today where is Allen Weisselberg . Hes sort of this Where In The World absent government witness at this Point Where In The World is Allen Weisselberg. Of course hes the jury does not know hes at Rikers Island for perjury, his second trip out to rikers. The issue with Allen Weisselberg is he has this Confidentiality Agreement he signed with the Trump Organization and its not fully paid through yet, and in the Confidentiality Agreement, its a very strongly worded agreement, that the government has read that he cannot cooperate with the government investigation. They havent called him, hes just a wild card, and he may take the fifth or he wont answer questions, so this became a whole thing today. I dont think Donald Trumps lawyers want him in the courtroom either because who knows thu cross is going to go. Hes also the first one of the first things that will come up about him in the courtroom, is hes in jail for perjury and also been to rikers once before. So there was just this huge hubbub about him but the government wants to get this Separation Agreement into evidence. So the judge, in talking to the two parties today, he sort of suggested he might like to see him on the stand outside of the jury and ask him a few questions to see how it goes. That doesnt sound like great idea from the governments point of view, so they may withdraw the idea of getting his Severance Agreement in as a compromise. We dont know where this is going to go now, but were waiting to see. That could still happen. And i should raise the other witness that may come in, we dont know, but hes on the list, is Keith Schiller, and he was trumps body plan for years and knows a lot and is one of these unnamed sort of witnesses were hearing a lot about at trial. He saw a lot of stuff, and so far we havent seen him either. Im not sure if hes going to be there, but thats another possibility. So theres still some a few as we head into this important day on monday of Michael Cohens testimony. Legally, Keith Schiller, if hes subpoenaed he would have to testify, right, or a sense he wouldnt Tell The Truth . Whats the and does Allen Weisselbergs Severance Agreement protect him from answering questions honestly or the prosecution doesnt think he would . The prosecution doesnt think he would. That clause in the contract seems like it would be legally unenforceable. You cant tell someone to obstruct a lawful federal investigation. Thats a crime. He would have to answer truthfully, i think, with both of these witnesses theres a real question to whether they will. They are trump loyalists through and through. Allen weisselberg has proven hes willing to go to jail not once but twice to lie for Donald Trumps benefit, not his own, he was the guy getting blamed in the fraud trial as being the guy who was greedy and doing things without Donald Trumps knowledge. Hes proven time and again he will do it i guess for the right price. For Keith Schiller he would be an important witness if he were treuful. According to Stormy Daniels the bodyguard outside the door during that encounter which Donald Trumps lawyers said didnt happen. He could put the lie to that and say i was there. Hes also from the Trump Organization, and then he would make sure those got Madeleine Westerhout for donald trump to sign the checks. He has the information, but i just am guessing the prosecution is not going to call him because they dont think he will Tell The Truth. Theres such a stark difference and i wonder if this is appreciated or lost between how the witnesses whose lawyers are paid by trump stishlgs i think glass hers and those who probably help the District Attorney build this case, Michael Cohen was down there 25 times, what do you make of this sort of push through Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohen and trumps, you know i take your word for it hes sort of a seething mess. But the terms of what is sort of out there again . Whats being relived for the country in the political moment . I think that number one this is the difference between a Paul Manafort and an Allen Weisselberg. There is a tweet put into the record today in which he praised Paul Manafort for not breaking with him unlike Michael Cohen who flipped on him. Flippers. Theres a difference in the way that those two men approached their responsibility to donald trump. In this part of the tax scheme that Allen Weisselberg pled guilty to, he agreed to testify against the Trump Organization, but not specifically donald trump. Theres that major distinction there. The country is now watching this to the extent that they are looking at the minutia of Allen Weisselberg and who he is testifying against or not, that donald trump and loyalty again, look all of us, we all believe in truth, wish we had a truth and wish people like Allen Weisselberg would walk into a courtroom and Tell The Truth. Hes serving time in rikers because he per jurred himself just last fall. Michael cohen in the January Of 2019 testimony you played at the beginning of this segment here in that very testimony, Michael Cohen, before congress, under oath, said that the one other person who was there with him when he was directed to do 130 be,000 payment was none other than Allen Weisselberg. Thats where trump directed us to go back to weisselbergs office and figure this out. Allen weisselberg at the age he is now would be willing to go do that this story for the jury might be more concrete. I cannot articulate how broken our politics are when were talking about the criminal trial of an exrepublican president and the key witnesses to the alleged crimes are not people that can go on the stand because no one thinks they would Tell The Truth. Its screwed up plittly thats where we are as a country. There was a piece yesterday, of all the criminal indictments trump faces, this is the trial, country is getting the trial it deserves for selecting donald trump. This is the really, in my opinion, important point a lot of people are missing. Were talking about an expresident of the United States who may be president again, at least a 5050 chance. Hes talking about flippers like a mob boss because flippers mean they were doing a crime with you and flipped on you. If you are innocent, youre not worried about flippers because you werent engaged in a crime. Youre innocent. Who talks about flippers other than a criminal. And for our having to sit here, seeing this man in some pose tied to be president and hes furious because people may get on the stand and Tell The Truth about him, we cant normalize this. This is bad for the country and it is beyond those of us that are opposed to donald trump. It is bad for the country what were seeing unfold in downtown manhattan. Its a sickness that extends to the person who was in charge of Donald Trumps Justice Department is a vote in the donald trump column in 2024, as we sit here and talk about the two witnesses central to the facts stipulated being out of bounds for the state because they would lie, its insane. It mean just politically its bonkers. No one is going anywhere. Ill get myself together. Up next for us, putting it together. How the prosecution over the past four years has linked all of the evidence they have shown to the jury and all of the Witness Testimony into what they believe is the strongest case possible. Well look at how theyve been able to do that next. Out what te future looks like. For me. I may have trouble getting around, but i want to live in my home where im comfortable and my friends are nearby. I can do it with the help of a barber, personal shopper and exercise buddy. Someone who can help me live right at home. Lifes good. When you have a plan. vo its shrimp your way. 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Todays Witness Testimony in the criminal trial of the expresident may not have had the Firework Factor and salacious details that other witnesses provided us this week, but the witnesses on the stand did provide Key Testimony for the manhattan d. A. s case against donald trump. Pair legals from Braggs Office and a verizon executive called to enter crew shall evidence into the record. New york times points out their importance today was saying each of those witnesses has provided a link in the Chain Of Custody of the 34 Business Documents at the heart of the case against donald trump. Joining our coverage, former investigator for the January 6th Select Committee, tim heyby. I want your thoughts on proving the elements of the crime trump is charged with and i see an element to the Witness Testimony that you guys elicited from everyone around donald trump on that day, both that he knew he lost and knew that there wasnt any fraud. Yeah. Theres a lot that happens in criminal trials thats fairly mundane. You have these moments of great emotion, like the Stormy Daniels testimony, but then you have blocking and tackling that has to be done to lay a foundation, Chain Of Custody for particular documents that matter, that particularly matters in a case that relies upon witnesses who have baggage, right. The flippers, as the defendant likes to call them, like Michael Cohen, the prosecutor has to corroborate him. They cannot go to the jury and say, you have to believe Michael Cohen in order to find him guilty. They want to say, Michael Cohen has been corroborated by all these other witnesses and documents. That shows that hes telling the truth. That is the central, most important factor for a prosecutor in a case where youre calling a coconspirator as a witness. Youre seeing a lot of that foundation being laid to prop up and corroborate the testimony of the central witness, Michael Cohen. I mean, it seems like the entire architecture was about precorroboration, so that by the time he takes the stand you would have to believe that all these people who still say on the stand that they like and revere and respect donald trump, pecker, hope hicks, Madeleine Westerhout, all these people who love him, who either have lawyers paid for by him or say they think hes so smart, hope kept talking about what a good message person he was, pecker kept talking about how he was the most eligible bachelor, he was married the whole time he was covering him, the people that have testified to the same facts that cohen will testify to on monday, are all very much in the trump camp. That feels like a strategy that you guys may have pioneered in the public hearings. Absolutely. Theres no question that witnesses providing that corroboration, who are close to, continue to be loyal to, have strong feelings about the defendant, are more credible. Harder to argue that they have any sort of bias or any reason to do anything other than Tell The Truth. Thats why the hope hicks and Madeleine Westerhout and ronna graphs are so important. Prosecutors can call cohen first, because hes really the lynchpin that ties all of the, you know, the payoff to the Business Records, or they can lay the Foundation First so that when the jury hears the Lynchpin Testimony of Michael Cohen, theyre like, oh, yeah, thats what david pecker said. Oh, thats right, thats what hope hicks said. So it maybe makes them more favorably inclined to believe cohen because the foundation has been laid before. This is art not science. Theres no precise way to do it. But, its clear that what the District Attorneys office is doing, nicole, youre precisely right, is with largely Republican Trump loyalists are trying to corroborate their star witness, Michael Cohen. I mean, vaughn, i think that speaks to trigger trump and his political angst because the last time that happened was the very public january 6th hearings when that was on camera, that was on tv, and that did damage the republican brand ahead of the midterms. It absolutely did. There was a focus point and also a divide between the efforts of liz cheney and Adam Kinzinger in realtime through the January 6th Select Committee and what donald trump was trying to Campaign Around the country on and there was this weird vibe because in the republican primaries that existed it was the trumpbacked candidates versus those who were not. First Everybody Angling for the trump endorsement so you could not say donald trump did any wrongdoing or acknowledge he had me a missteps or should have handled the events of january 6th differently. That was not allowed. Donald trump effectively got rid of eight of the ten republicans in the house and voted to impeach them in that voted to impeach him in 2022. What happened with the trump backed be candidates, republicans get demolished and individuals who won the republican primaries lost general Election Races against democrats. This was the contrast here that yet again is playing out and youre looking at republican primaries again. This is yes de ja have you all over again. Dave mccormick was annihilated. On a rainy day in pennsylvania at a Campaign Rally for donald trump at fairgrounds, and he was just attacking Dave Mccormick supporting dr. Oz, and attacking him, look whos campaigning now with donald trump at maralago last weekend. Dave mccormick. In that role and capacity, you must defend donald trump and all of his actions. So yesterday when rick scott was down at the courthouse i asked him, do you believe Stormy Daniels or donald trump . He didnt answer and said he said this is a records case, right. Its about okay. Standing in solidarity with donald trump and this is the part that is politically difficult here for republicans is that their leading man up and down and going to Campaign Around the country, less than six months out until the General Election and this case will be a factor. Its amazing. I want to come back to you on this Allen Weisselberg question and what may be ahead because of the strength of all of the documents. I have to sneak in a quick break. Well be right back. Tmobile savings, take one. Guys, focus. Heres the line. at tmobile, you get tons of benefits, and you can still save versus the other guys. focus hello tmobile. Hold on. You might want to just. Ok stop just say it like this, at tmobile, you can save on every plan, and you get great benefits with magenta status. Magenta status. Yuh ill show you my magenta status. Ok, ill just do it. Check out the tmobile savings calculator to see how much you can save. 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Tell me what you are watching for in terms of cohens testimony specifically about the role of they call him allen here, but twice imprisoned Allen Weisselberg. I think two important mentions of Allen Weisselberg today. We talked about one where it came up should he be testifying at all. But in the Early Morning session, Madeleine Westerhout was still testifying today and had about an hour on the stand and she, of course, was Donald Trumps assistant when he was at the white house. She had a seat right outside the oval office in the outer oval office and saw so much that was going on and she was also in charge of bringing him anything that was coming from trump tower, she would bring it in, and she talked about i guess we saw kind of contrasting two different portraits of donald trump. She first of all, yesterday, we talked about how he was so tight with money that donald trump wanted to frame a picture of his mother and the cost for the frame 650 and there was a lot of consternation about whether or not that money should be spent on this frame from tiffany. Then she came in today and had a different view of donald trump which goes to something that i think were going to be seeing with Allen Weisselberg that weve talked about at the table and that was all of a sudden he wasnt really paying a lot of attention. Trump or weisselberg . Donald trump was not a Micro Manager at all. In fact, the person she saw, she would bring the checks in, sometimes he would be on the phone Signing Checks, sometimes he would be in meetings with staff Signing Checks, that he really was not paying a lot of attention to what he was doing, which, of course, is the opposite of the donald trump that i think we all know and weve heard about. This guy is a Micro Manager, you know, that hes never paid a bill in full. He will try and get everything down to half and, you know, but she was portraying this other side of him. The other thing that she talked about and while shes talking about how hes now Signing Checks on the phone and not really paying attention, is that he didnt really have much contact with Allen Weisselberg in 2017. In fact, she said that donald trump would send out hundreds and hundreds of clippings to people he would sign them and that was one of his ways of connecting with people. He sent one to Allen Weisselberg. Where were seeing this train going, wait for it, Allen Weisselberg and Michael Cohen came up with a scheme on their own and weve gotten shades of that, but we really started to see it take shape today and i think were going to continue the idea that cohen and weisselberg came up with it. I wonder, if we were to get Allen Weisselberg on the stand and but you wonder where Allen Weisselberg would land on that. Part of the defense is that this was a scheme cooked up between the two of them, and donald trump was just busy doing a bunch of other stuff and had no idea that this payment was happening. I mean, what what westerhout requires is for you to impeach donald trump. Its trumps words that said i look at every check, it came in the testimony from his publisher and his ghost writer who talked about how hands on he was and Ghost Writing in his own words. The other piece is a jury would then im sure youre right, sues always right but a jury would then be asked to swallow a story about two men who didnt have the sex with Stormy Daniels and didnt run for president and benefit from the sex being silenced. Would that work . You not only would have to believe that Michael Cohen went rogue because hes so obsessed with donald trump and wanted to stay in his good graces and potentially get a seat some position, so he did this out of the goodness of his heart. You not only have to swallow that, you have to swallow that Allen Weisselberg was willing to write out checks and do this in the Business Records of the Trump Organization without ever telling the boss. And thats just not what we have heard about how the Trump Organization has been run. Its not consistent with the testimony thus far even from Jeff Mcconnie who said Allen Weisselberg, all of these notes that he took, that was based on conversations he had with donald trump. He said that. Then you have other people that have testified from the organization talking about accounts payable, yes, donald trump looks at all these checks. Donald trump is the one looking at all of these finances. He would ask questions. Madeline westerhout said hes tenantive to details. He tenantive to details. He reads before he signs. The next day on cross shes asked basically the same questions and says something completely different. It was oh, now, shes asking the question, i know what she wants to say because i prepped with her, with the Defense Attorney for an hour, ill say what she wants me to say. I dont know that she necessarily helps the defense all that much because it was so inconsistent. Transparently so. Well get last word on The Other Side. Well get last word on The Other Side first psoriasis, then Psoriatic Arthritis. It was really holding me back. Standing up. Even walking was tough. My joints hurt. I was afraid things were going to get worse. I was always hiding and thats just not me. Not being there for my family, that hurt. Woo i had to do something. I started cosentyx®. Im feeling good. Watch me. Cosentyx helps people with Psoriatic Arthritis move, look, and feel better. 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Well, my contention on the whole thing is you can say all you want about changing the testimony, but vaughn, we played the tape where donald trump himself is talking to cohen, and cohen says weve got to set up the what company, what financing . Pay with cash paid in cash. So whether or not he read the checks that he signed or not, pay what in cash if you were not involved in this scheme . He didnt say what are you talking about, hes not saying why are we paying hes saying pay in cash. And donald trump today said that he only did small deals, not big deals. So if theyre going to try to paint him as an insignificant figure, well then who was the one who told Allen Weisselberg to do this because Allen Weisselberg wasnt at the trump tower meeting in august of 2015. Who is the one that directed Allen Weisselberg . Was it donald trump or Michael Cohen . Does Michael Cohen have that sort of power that Allen Weisselberg respects . If you go to may, 2018, when this started to unravel and became public, it was Rudy Giuliani who went on with sean hannity and came out and said that Michael Cohen took care of things like this for donald trump and had arrangements like this that funneled money let me ask this question how many legitimate legal costs are reimbursed with cash and funneled through to someone . How are you reimbursing if youre telling the guy that you claimed was your Legal Services pay it in cash, who is it if youre the one thats supposed to be the recipient . Its insane. Its insane. Tim, thank you for joining us. See, kristi, vaughn, rev, thank you. Ahead for us, one sure thing weve been expecting out of this criminal trial from the getgo. Donald trump, Michael Cohen, face to face once again. Well set up what could be a very, very combative day of testimony monday. Ay bladder leaks were holding me back from doing the things i loved. 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We have a simple Management Fee structured so we do better when our clients do better. other Money Manager huh, were more different than i thought Fisher Investments at Fisher Investments, were clearly different. My daughter and i finally had that conversation. Oh, no, not about that. About what comes next in life. For her. I may not be in perfect health, but i want to stay in my home, where my family visits often and where my memories are. I can do it with help from a prep cook, wardrobe assistant and stylist, someone to help me live right at home. Lifes good. When you have a plan. Did you know about the 130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels . No. You have to ask Michael Cohen. Michaels my attorney. And youll have to ask michael. Youll have to ask michael. Well, they will on monday. Hi, again, everyone, its still friday. Now 5 00 in new york. That will be the Name Of The Game monday when the expresident s former attorney and fixer, the man who made the 130,000 hushmoney payment, Michael Cohen takes the witness stand. Its a moment this criminal trial of donald j. Trump has been steadily building toward. Michael cohen will be the star witness as the recipient of the reimbursements that donald trump wants indicted for. Was indicted for. Michael cohen is a star witness who comes with some baggage. A convicted felon, Michael Cohen has spent time in prison and admitted to lying under oath, which is why weve seen the prosecution tackle this case in the way that it has methodically, almost Reverse Engineering all of the evidence, setting up the timeline and the documents and the fact pattern with other witnesses, corroborating every bit of Michael Cohens story before the jury, before he ever enters the courthouse. As we look ahead to cohens explosive testimony next week, well take a Trip Down Memory Lane looking back at how Michael Cohen got here. Cohens relationship with donald trump was one that spanned over a decade. He started working at the Trump Organization in 2006. He was more than just a lawyer for trump. He was an attack dog for him. Abc news reported back that 2011, quote, cohen, 44, is known around the office and around new york as Donald Trumps pit bull. In an interview with abc news, Michael Cohen said, quote, it means that if somebody does something mr. Trump does not like, i do everything in my power to resolve it to whether trumps benefit. If you do something wrong, im going to come at you, grab you by the neck, and im not going to let you go until im finished. When it came time for cohens thenboss to run for president , he brought that same fierce loyalty and combativeness. Im obviously very loyal and very dedicated to mr. Trump. I think hes going to be not just a good president , i think hes going to be a great president. Hes going to be the president that ends up working with everybody. You guys are down, and it makes sense says who . Says who . Polls. Most of them. All of them . Says who . Polls. I just told you. I answered your question. Okay. Which polls . All of them. Okay. And your question is . As the New York Times reported years ago, Michael Cohens unflinching loyalty often went unreciprocated leaving them on perilous ground last april after the Federal Bureau Of Investigation raided Michael Cohens home, office, and hotel room. The searches were part of an inquiry in the office of the United States attorney for the Southern District of new york that grew out of Robert Muellers examination of Russian Election meddling. Michael cohen went to prison for the former president. He served 13 months plus time in home confinement, plus some time in solitary for eight counts including criminal tax evasion and Campaign Finance violations. Since then he has repeated his wish that his former boss be held accountable, as well. He need to be held accountable, and do i believe if it was anyone else that that individual would already be in prison or jail . The answer is emphatically yes. My goal this is not revenge, right . What this is is accountability. This is not what so many people want to make it look like oh, its Michael Cohens vengeance against donald trump. Thats what this is about. This is solely about accountability. I should not be held accountable for Donald Trumps dirty deeds. Let him be held accountable. So we start the hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. Lucky for us we have a full table. Correspondent i cant say Yasmin Vossoughian is here, harry litman, homestead of on brand donnie deutsch, and New York Times editorial member and political analyst mara gay is here. Before i knew Michael Cohen, you were the person i asked about Michael Cohen. I now know Michael Cohen, as well. Ive played some testimony from 2019. People shouldnt underestimate his ability to sort of pull it in and do something that he is committed to doing. He is committed to accountability for donald trump. The other part of the story of the price hes paid, bill barr sought to throw him back in prison for writing his book, telling his story. He sees himself as sorts of one of the first people trump weaponized his department of justice against, and all for telling the truth about trumps role. Dont think hes not worried if trump gets in again that hell come after him again as many others are. Correct. Let me use a word for Michael Cohen that you dont hear a lot. Competent. How many lawyers has donald trump been through since hes been in the white house . Dozens and dozens. This was his personal watchdog, call it fixer, for ten years, and he kept that job. Hes very good at what he does. Even the cnn interview which is funny on the one hand is clever. It was very trumpian. Correct. The polls dont matter youre making it up. So hes very good at what he does, whether you like him or dont like him. He will be great on i spoke to him today. I can say to judge merchan its working. Tell me whats going on fine, good, everything will be okay. He was very still posting on tiktok. That was yesterday. Got in trouble i feel good, im ready to go. This is his moment. And you know, as they say, lets get ready to rumble. Thats what were looking at there. And its you know, theres an interesting mano mano thing with trump. Whats going to get under his skin is when hes up against another guy i was starting to tell a joke off camera i used to rent one of his apartments. I was moving out and you have the Security Deposit no, wrong story. Birthday video story. Birthday video rewind. Birthday, lot of people made a video. Hes on the video and goes, donnie, you maybe have better hair, but im taller than you. Thats like tell you that story before . Thats incredible. You have good hair. Thank you. Its a zerosum game against another man, and michael will be up for it. Im betting on michael on this one. Weve got hair news. Well get to that later in the broadcast. I know that you have been really i think the skeptic, right, at our table about Michael Cohens credibility. What do you think of the job the prosecution has done to sort of precorroborate what we expect him to testify to . So first i dont know how much of a skeptic i am. Ill get back to that in a moment. But the short answer is excellent, although you said at the top, nicolle, that everything has been corroborated. Theres one piece that hasnt been, and when weisselberg came up at the end of the day it really mattered. That is the statement of facts, and theyre going to use cohen for this, is that trump tells weisselberg and cohen go off and take care of this. And thats what produces that very important writing from weisselberg. Right now assuming weisselberg doesnt testify and you heard that whole drama at the end of the day, thats the one thing that Michael Cohen has to carry on his own. But i end to agree with donnie. And among other things, hes got a lot of baggage. But if he keeps his cool and doesnt let them get his goat, he now has the truth on his side. Thats right. I think hes been telling his story and its an accurate story for a few years now. So you know, that i think will come through, as it did with pecker, as it did i think with Stormy Daniels. Flawed witnesses but truthful, credible witnesses. And what i think a jury will see and again, i have no idea how theyll experience it or what theyll ultimately decide or what judgment theyll render in the end but what they will see is that Michael Cohens description of the facts as he knew them is the same as the description of facts testified to by people who still love trump very much. The variable isnt affinity or disgust with donald trump, its what did you see. My sense is that is that there was Reverse Engineering, those 25 visits that cohen had to Braggs Office. This was after the case had been looked at by pomerantz and others, were perhaps to do some of this reverse who else was in the room . Hope hicks was there, she testifies that trump said glad that didnt get out. Youve got all the documents, the text exchanges, who was in the room in 2015, pecker. They made the scheme, i was all of these people, and most of them come down on The Other Side of the Love Hate Trump legend than cohen does tell the same story. I would say a mountain. You heard today from a few witnesses with the prosecution, once, twice, youre exactly right, 25. Theyve gone over to every single comma, and they know whats coming. And theyve also tried to coach him to kind of keep his cool which is going to matter a lot. But again, everything, you know, that i think their whole case has been about architecting what he will say and this gap that will matter, but i think he can carry it. I want to say hes the only infiddle infidel in the case. Including shying away from people who had good things to say like weisselberg but they were scared of, and cohen is the only person whos truly betrayed trump. Everyone else is either neutral or on his side to this day. And that has the result of triggering trump. I mean, i think many of his ten violations for which hes already paid fines for are about attacking Michael Cohen. Right. And hes wanted the gag order released for michael cone, wanted it released for Stormy Daniels, as well. He wanted them amended so he could speak publicly about them. He felt like he was being attacked for on tiktok and or by Stormy Daniels on twitter yesterday evening. There was a picture i guess tang of Stormy Daniels and her friend outside trump tower. He wanted to be able to attack that and come back on some of her testimony that he knows was out in the media. But he can not do that because of the gag order thats in place. I think what im hearing from sources is its not going to necessarily come down from Michael Cohen to his anecdotal reselling of what took place in the retelling of what took place in the lead up to the payoff to Stormy Daniels and the alleged payback of donald trump to Michael Cohen. Its going to come down to the documents. Thats why the witnesses even today that were oh, so boring, after the salacious testimony of Stormy Daniels is also so important, right. Those Text Messages and the lead up between dylan howard and Stormy Daniels manager, why those things are so important, right . Stormy says she had sex with donald trump. Stormy wants this type of money. Let me get back to you. Why is this taking so long . All of that being admitted into evidence because its going to be that evidence that theyre going to have Michael Cohen point to because they know i think todd blanch is likely going to go with the crossexamination. I imagine as a lead attorney hes going to be going with crossexamination. They know todd blanch is going to say youre a convicted felon, you lied under oath, why should anybody believe you, right . And then but then the prosecution you hate trump you hate trump and have an axe to grind just like Stormy Daniels does. Then the prosecutions going to say but Michael Cohens not telling the story, the tapes, are the Text Messages, the Phones Records are. When it was created they loved him very much. I wonder if you wouldnt see some evidence, documentary or electronic, of just how loyal he was to trump at the time that the crimes were committed. He put it in today it wasnt it was a boring day, but its really important to understand theyre setting up a really compelling summation. They went over those calls quickly. But youll see them as an exhibit. Heres how many times cohen talked to trump, heres how many times they talked to davidson. They just wanted them in evidence so they can use them to shape the story at summation which is coming. You put up the New York Times article from august april, excuse me, 21st. They submitted a tweet from donald trump just around that date in which they said theyre trying to flip Michael Cohen, hes a loyal man, a family man, hell never do it hell never go. You think about the timing of that, four months before Michael Cohen pled guilty in a court of law, and then he said donald trump made me do it, which launched this entire investigation. But even if he hadnt said donald trump made me do it, the Southern District of new york found him and named him individual one. The only one he was the launch, right, of the investigation that started it. The mueller probe, the campaign. Right. What do you i worry so much that were down this rabbit hole of did he violate his gag order or didnt he . Well, were talking about the expresident of the United States who is the nominee again treating witnesses worse than mobsters do when theyre on trial. And so i worry that sometimes when i have my nose against the glass that miss the forest. Were talking to someone who wants to be president of the United States. Can he or cant he restrain himself from attacking witnesses in a criminal trial . And most peoples money is on he cant. Well, he certainly cant. And thats another reason to hold him accountable. I think theres been especially in this case in particular some discussion about, well, its not as serious as some of the other allegations against donald trump. You know, maybe this is you know, overreach by prosecutors. But then if you look at his actual behavior, he is essentially daring people to hold him accountable for anything. And i think Michael Cohen said it himself, if this was anybody else in Michael Cohens estimation, he would have gone to jail, and Michael Cohen did go to jail. I think the other thing to look at here is in a case in which, you know, legally speaking its going to be very difficult to connect donald trump to this crime, this alleged crime that occurred, and i think that is the goal of the prosecutors. But Michael Cohens testimony, the way it can connect those dots is by establishing a set of Business Practices that donald trump kept at the time. Im not a lawyer, but i can tell you from the perspective of a storyteller, the jury is going to be looking very closely at that. Michael cohen is the person who can say, yeah, well, donald trump wouldnt have put this in writing, but this is how i know that because i worked for him for ten years. When he said this, he meant this. I think that can be extremely compelling in a case where theres overwhelming evidence that this payoff did occur. And so i do think that the jury is going to be looking at this not just from the legalese that we parse but from the overwhelm story here which is that this president has not been held accountable. People who worked for him have. The other thing about Michael Cohen thats interesting is he has paid his debt to society. Uhhuh. So in a sense he is the most liberated one. Hes not in Donald Trumps you know, hes not essentially in his pocket anymore. And he doesnt really owe anyone anything at this point. So i actually think that he is problematic but very credible at this point. What do you make of two men who went to jail for donald trump and one of them is so not trust worthy in the eyes of the government that theyre not going to call him from rikers to testify . You talked about men and the sort of Primal Male Tics that trump has. What is the primal male thing that trump gets men to go to jail for him . Its interesting. Weisselberg and cohen are two different type of guys. Cosend more of an alpha than weisselberg is. You and i have talked about this personally, michael is who he was is tied up in trump, very connected. It is shakespearean. It really is. He was in certain ways a father fog michael figure to michael but was disappointing. I know having visited him in jail and spoking to him, and awe mention he did solitary, this all lead up to this. The other reason hes going to be so good is that every moment he spent in jail hes been waiting for this moment. You know, jail sucks, even a federal prison. I went up there, its dusty, its youre in a uniform, youre told what to do. You know, i remember sitting in The Waiting Room and there was a vending machine, i got some crackers. But he wasnt allowed to eat any because its not youre told what to eat and how you can eat and when you can eat. Thats all leading up to this. As i said, hes going to be razor sharp. And as you its the documents, stupid. Like thats what theyre going to take him through it. Its never going to be believe me, like said, look look, look, he becomes very incredible whistleblower theres a lot of black and credible when theres a lot of black and white ink. We found out today the government never even approached him. They were so certain he would be a kryptonite witness for them. And, you know, they knew they couldnt be able to talk to him in advance. Because hes under contract to never the letter of the contract was entered into evidence today before the judge. No, thats the debate. They want debate in front of the judge ensued where the contract came up. Thats right. Thats why he was saying maybe we should have weisselberg first before we determine whether to enter that into evidence. What does that mean . It means they want to say, the da, this shows weisselbergs bias, and it gives an explanation for why hes not there. The fact that he went to jail twice shows weisselbergs bias . Thats not necessarily coming in, right. But the agreement might, although it might not. And but it really struck me that they shied away from him so much. The name Keith Schiller kept ringing in my head because in general, when theyve had tough witnesses, theyve called a company like rona graff and westerhout, but theyve had to play with the cards theyve been dealt. And some of them and weisselbergs the numberone example. The das office is going to have to make a decision as to whether or not they want to submit this separation into evidence and or possibly bring weisselberg to put him on the stand even if a jury is not in the room which is likely to happen if they put weisselberg on the stand. The jury wouldnt be in the room. But the da would have to make a decision open it up the trial for the defense team. They may say forget it, we dont want to submit that Separation Agreement into evidence, lets move on. They said were going to hear more about weisselberg, no matter what, through cohen or through the summation. Hes an important figure here. We have to sneak in a break before they come and get me. But you just teased something else, Keith Schiller. I want to ask you about that today. When we come back, after days of salacious testimony, what the world thinks. Us as a country. Watching the firstever criminal trial of an american expresident and future candidate. That after a quick break. Plus, a disgraced expresident again turning to his pardoned former campaign manager, Paul Manafort. Even as new reporting shows manaforts never before disclosed financial entanglements helping launch a Chinese Media venture. The grave counterintelligence threats of bringing manafort back into the innermost circle later in the broadcast. And deadline white house continues after a quick break. Na if youre one of the millions of people with diabetes who suffer from low and high blood sugar, dexcom g7 is one of the easiest ways to take better control of your diabetes. My blood sugar would suddenly spike or really go low out of nowhere. It was really scary. dr. Swamy this small wearable alerts you 20 minutes before you go too low or when youre high so you can take action in the moment. Now were talking a game changer im back in control announcer dexcom g7 helps protect against highs and lows. Call now right now you can get a free footlong at subway. Just buy any footlong in the app and get one free. Just scan the qr code and Enter Promo Code flbogo it only works from The Other Side of the screen, buddy. You still got a land line in your house. Order now in the subway app. Today, at americas beverage companies,. Our bottles might still look the same. But they can be remade in a whole new way. Thanks to you. Were getting bottles back. And weve developed a way to make new ones from 100 recycled plastic. New bottles made using no new plastic. Youll be seeing more of these bottles in more places. And when we get more of them back. We can use less new plastic. See how our bottles are made to be remade. And theyre all coming . Those who are still lewith us, yes. C. Grandpa whats this . Your wings. Light em up gentlemen, its a beautiful. Day to fly. Having to do with paying some Stormy Daniels woman 100,000 which is going to turn out to be perfectly legal. That money was not campaign money. Sorry. Im giving you a fact now that you dont know. Its not campaign money. No Campaign Finance violation. So they funneled it through the law firm. Funneled through the law firm, and the president repaid it. Oh, i didnt know he did. Yep. You know the president didnt know about this . I believe thats what michael had said didnt know about the specifics of it as far as i know. But he did know about the general arrangement that michael would take care of things like this. I think nonlawyers might call that a confession. I mean, what the elements of the crime were a thing that his surrogates want to at the moment that rudy does that interview hes representing him hes repping him in the mueller trial. By the way, yesterday was a pretty big day. But something slipped in that i think a lot of people didnt quite notice which is trumps own admission in the stormy case that he repaid this. So you got to think about, you know, im a former prosecutor, but defense beyond a reasonable doubt, and the beyond a reasonable doubt, what is the reason now that youre going to attach . And i think its what he says it has to be in combination of did it for melania, maybe, and got a Shot In The Arm from westerhout on that. Hes Signing Checks, but hes so busy he doesnt know what theyre about. I think thats the only reason thats left for them to argue. And if i can just say i think theyve made a colossal mistake, and its because trumps the client, of making this so much about whether he had sex with Stormy Daniels. Because now, if first, there could be more evidence about that that would blow it out of the water, but if the jury basically believes her and disbelieves him, even though its not essential to the elements of the crime, you know, he starts way in the hole. Just unnecessary. You mean by the cross that they did of Stormy Daniels . Well, the the the opening which, by the way, merchan was really tough on them yesterday saying youre the ones who put it in into contention here. And its true. Thats going to be a big focus for the jury. It wouldnt have to be. Another Defense Lawyer would try the case as, yeah, hes a jerk, but hes not a criminal. But trump wouldnt let that line be maintained, and thats the hand theyve been dealt. I mean, if the jury concludes there was something to what stormy said, even though theres still some more things they could say, i think, you know, theyve basically are three quarters of the way there. And this is this happened in the dramatic fireworks that took place after the jury left yesterday. Judge juan merchan says to todd blanch, whose repetition seems to be bigger than what were seeing judge merchan evaluate in the transcripts im seeing, but what judge merchan says to todd blanch is that because you opened with trump did not have sex with this woman, Stormy Daniels account of sex with this man is central. Absolutely, yeah. That was todd blanchs opening. Donald trump did not have sex with Stormy Daniels. Hence the reason why even when they brought up objections to Stormy Daniels testimony and they said some of this should not be allowed to be admitted, they had already opened the door. Then they opened it again in crossexamination with Susan Necheles who repeatedly talked about the details. And so its one of the reasons why i feel as if even with the instructions of what the jury will be allowed to review during deliberations, will also be in question because during crossexamination they got into those details, the very details which one sentence on that. The messy details says merchan go to her credibility now, the messy details that they were complaining about. Sorry. So no, but why why did Susan Necheles want to relitigate the Condom Question with Stormy Daniels before the juri . So, you know, i think it was ill advised, but she was trying to push back on her for being such a portraying him as such an on an ogre. Why not walk ten miles from that and stay with the basics . It didnt and right in front of trump it was a bad day for sure. If your position that the defenses team has landed on is he didnt have sex, why are you relitigating why the person who didnt have sex did or did not wear a condom . Yes. Were talking about all i can think is if my kid walked by the tv. Its worse. Im listening, and you go its thats my point. It was it was about reminding people that Stormy Daniels is a former adult film actress, right . Who wore a condom lets go with the facts as stlapted in the courthouse stipulated in the courthouse. Part of her testimony was as an adult film actor, you wore a condom. Why was that among the things that came up in cross . I dont know the answer to that. She led with this repeatedly. Its about getting at Stormy Daniels Critical Over and credibility over and over again. Its what we talked about yesterday or the day before, i cant count what day it is now. I know its friday because im really looking forward to the weekend. Two days of not talking about trump its what we talked about when Susan Necheles and ill repeat it again when she said, youre an adult film actress, youve acted in 100plus films, directed 100plus films, you should be used to walking out of a bathroom and seeing a man in his boxer shorts and in a tshirt on the bed, ie you brought this. Colossal misstep. Tis i think thats what the condom is about. Youre relitigating this idea of being in this power structure situation, a sexual assault. The whole thing just seemed like it was going in the complete wrong direction by cross. How that works with the jury and how it helps. I was following it closely in a much stronger position than even she was in during direct which i think, again, not a lawyer, i think usually doesnt necessarily happen with a witness like stormy. Like never. And she controlled the she coled the dynamic and the rhythm of it. It was the worst single examination of the trial. Can i sort of associate myself with nonlawyer analysis here . My sense of what trump was trying to do was knock it out because it was too brutal, right . It was too damaging. The person who made it damaging to trump was Susan Necheles. I mean, the person who was weinsteinesque in her treatment of the person describing not rape but a sexual experience with donald trump. The person who treated her in a way that was damaging to trump was trumps Defense Lawyer. Well and the mistake there and of course we dont really know these jurors individually, we do know this is a new york jury in a state that is even just a little bit of information, its a solidly prochoice state, okay . This is a state where im going to venture to guess as a former juror at some point myself, as a woman in the state, you know, there are going to be people on that jury, men and women, who are going to say hold up, are we going are we supposed to be examining the behavior of the former president , or is this just a woman being attacked . And that kind of that kind of device in a courtroom is such a turnoff that i could just see it putting a bad taste in jurors mouth from the very start. And theyre going to say thats the best defense you have, going after a woman for being a professional at what she does . That didnt sit right with me when i read the transcript. How is that going to sit with a jury we dont know yet. I think we dont want to lose the human element. The details, him standing there blacking the door thats the thing that hit a nerve with me. Was the biggest ew, it was you mentioned, it was harvey weinsteinesque, and painted him beyond a sleaze bag as a sexual assault. She was trying to set up a mistrial motions which they made. Thats what you say to the judge. In front of the jury it was a huge selfinflicted wound. I have to say, my point about the Energy Around all of the weinstein came from trumps Defense Lawyer. The way they talked to stormy was the closest anyone got to that era and those sensibilities and those sort of attacking and those descriptions. Again, only a jury will decide if it worked or not. We have no idea. What she did was she sought to tell her story. I think to your point on, cross, she seemed much more comfortable defending herself under attack than she did telling her own story. Yeah. I agree. It just is but i do think that was and the lawyer was a mistake. But it also donald trump has always run on his hes a woman hes women love him and he has power over women. This put him as an assaulter. Than he did im saying that no one said he did that. No one said he did. But you looked at him like you the icky factor. Such a wasnt just salacious, you looked at him as a real creep at this point. It wasnt what she testified to and what was elicited on cross, none of it had to do with any art of seduction. It was about which stormy testified to and what was not reexamined on cross was a power dynamic that was in stormys view at that point in time there are also similarities to e. Jean carrolls testimony, as well, especially during crossexamination. E. Jean carroll, you had a sex column, you wrote about sex, you should know about things like this. Oh, you were seeing this as an opportunistic moment in your life. It would be a story about donald trump. What about the details . Why do you only remember certain details and not other details . If you know anything about people that are victims of sexual assault, oftentimes that is what they walk away with, right . Remembering smaller larger details and not remembering kind of the smaller details. So many kind of parallels that i dont think anybody expected. We saw between Stormy Daniels testimony, especially during cross, and e. Jean carroll. Quick lawyer point. This is the Biggest Issue on appeal they have so far. Were going to see this if hes convicted. Her presence at all no, the specific details that made him look like an icky ogre. Even if it came from his lawyers . 100 . Well more complicated. I know weve got a commercial. But thats their best issue so far. All right. Youre all leaving me. Thats what happens after we talk about condoms on tv. Thank you all so much for spending time with us today. When we come back, stop if youve heard this before, Paul Manafort, former Trump Campaign manager pardoned by the disgraced expresident , is back in the trump fold and bringing a new set of entanglements with a foreign adversary. More reporting on that after a short break. Oman ugh, of course it stops loading at the best part. tony hale you need verizon. Get their crazy powerful network out here, and get six months of disney bundle on them vo stream with six months of disney bundle on us. And watch it all on the new Samsung Galaxy s24 , also on us. Only on verizon. Known as a loving parent. Known for lessons that matter. Known for lessons that matter. Known for being a free spirit. No one wants to be known for cancer, but a treatment can be. Keytruda is known to treat cancer, fdaapproved for 16 types of cancer. One of those cancers is advanced nonsquamous, nonsmall cell lung cancer, where keytruda is approved to be used with certain chemotherapies as your first treatment if you do not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. Keytruda can cause your immune system to attack healthy parts of your body during or after treatment. This may be severe and lead to death. See your doctor right away if you have cough, shortness of breath, chest pain, diarrhea, severe stomach pain, severe nausea or vomiting, headache, light sensitivity, eye problems, irregular heartbeat, extreme tiredness, constipation, dizziness or fainting, changes in appetite, thirst, or urine, confusion, memory problems, muscle pain or weakness, fever, rash, itching, or flushing. There may be other side effects. Tell your doctor about all your medical conditions, including immune system problems, if youve had or plan to have an organ or stem cell transplant, received chest radiation or have a nervous system problem. Depending on the type of cancer, keytruda may be used alone or in combination with other treatments, and is also being studied in hundreds of clinical trials, exploring ways to treat even more types of cancer. Its tru. Keytruda from merck. See all the types of cancer keytruda is known for at keytruda. Com and ask your doctor if keytruda could be right for you. woman ugh, of course it stops loading at the best part. tony hale you need verizon. Get their crazy powerful network out here, and get six months of disney bundle on them vo stream with six months of disney bundle on us. And watch it all on the new Samsung Galaxy s24 , also on us. Only on verizon. I think the whole manafort trial is very sad. When you look at whats going on there, i think its a very sad day for our country. He worked for me for a very short period of time, but you know what, he happens to be a very good person. And i think its very sad what theyve done to Paul Manafort. That was donald trump back in 2018 defending his former Campaign Chair Paul Manafort as he was standing trial on 18 Felony Counts related to his work for prorussian authoritarian leader. Trump has since become determined to bring Paul Manafort back into the fold with a job on his 2024 president ial campaign. Not two months after that news broke, it has now come out that manafort is cozying up to more authoritarians. Washington post reporting this, quote, manafort has been assisting an effort to launch a netflixlike mobile streaming and entertainment platform in china that according to corporate documents has the endorsement of the Chinese Government. Paul manafort for his part denied the claims, quote, manafort said he was not involved with china and has had nothing to do with china including chinese businesses, government individuals, or anything else, but acknowledged that he was asked to make introductions to u. S. Studios and potential u. S. Partners in the venture. Remains to be seen whether this puts a damper of any sort on trumps china rants on the campaign trail. Joining us, reporter for the washington post, bylined on the reporting we read from. Also writer and editor for protect democracy, Amanda Carpenter is back. Former assistant director for counterintelligence at the fbi, frank figlusi is here, author of the book long haul hunting the highway serial killers. Take me through, isaac, what you guys are reporting. Well, what we were able to learn here is that over the past couple of years after he earned a pardon from trump, Paul Manafort has reengaged in the kind of consulting work that made him a wellknown figure in washington and really a household name. He has sought overseas Campaign Work in japan and south korea. Hes met with figures in guatemala. And importantly, as you note, we obtained documents that show that he went to support an effort to create this streaming venture in china that people involved in the then had the endorsement of the highest levels of the Chinese Government. That, of course, is notable because mr. Trumps party and mr. Trump himself have presented themselves as foes of the grueling Chinese Communist party. And this creates interesting questions about how do people around the the candidate will balance these potential foreign interests and potential financial conflicts with their influence with mr. Trump. Frank, what could go wrong . Oh, my gosh, just about everything. And weve seen just about everything from manafort. So first, its great to see that trump has a Second Chance Program Going to employ convicted felons. That would be manafort. Lets not forget manafort was indicted on a 12count indictment that included being an illegal foreign agent, bank fraud, tax fraud, offshore accounts, lying to agents, lying under oath at grand juri. He was guilty of most of those, and he went to prison, sentenced to four years of prison, and then, of course, pardoned by trump. What are we to draw from this . First, lets go to the Gopcontrolled Senate Intelligence Committee and a report authored and approved by none other than senator marco rubio who is rumored to be amongst vp candidate being considered by trump right now. What did they call manafort . They called him a grave counterintelligence threat. A grave counterintelligence threat. What did manafort do to get that grave label . He hired as his deputy in the 2016 Trump Campaign constantine kalemnic who the senate called a russian intelligence officer, and he shared internal data from the campaign with this russian intelligence officer. So its gotten worse, as youve just heard, in his time since being released from prison. He appears to be deeply into the Chinese Government who has approved this kind of netflixlike thing that hes brokering introductions on. Amanda, were back to, you know, all the best people being in trumps innermost circle. This is that Senate Intelligence, republicanled Senate Intelligence Committee Report that frank is referring to, quote, the Committee Found that manaforts presence on the campaign in proximity to trump created opportunities for the Russian Intelligence Services to exert influence over and acquire confidential information on the Trump Campaign. Taken as a whole, manaforts highlevel access and willing to share information with individuals closely affiliated with the Russian Intelligence Services represented a grave counterintelligence threat. Whats amazing is that the people around trump, they can sort of rotate their orientation from russia to china, but the the playbook seems to always be the same. Yeah. You know, i know weve talked in previous segments about the danger of trumps past and pardon of abuse. But this reporting really illustrates why the point is that when pardons are corruptly issued, you can expect a lot more corruption. And as you point out, this has Real National security, gee oh political implications. Paul manafort was found guilty, convicted of all these Money Laundering charges. What makes him really attractsive to trump in my view attractive to trump in my view is his obstruction of justice. To bring it home to whats in the news today, trump himself tweeted during that time that he he lavished parades on Paul Manafort praise on Paul Manafort, contrasting him with Michael Cohen in that manafort didnt break, he didnt strike a deal like Michael Cohen and applauded his bravery. Like i look at Paul Manafort being welcomed back to the fold. Paul manafort being back in business. And given this gift to once again possibly take control of the Republican National convention. I mean, this isnt just some like oneoff party event. When you think about what a huge asset it is to an operator like manafort, you have the greatest concentration of republican officials, operatives, that week, and you are running the events. And youre in close proximity to probably what they hope to be the future president. And so this raises all kinds of flags. We know how this, all the stuff that how the Republican Party began changing in ukraine can be traced back to the 2016 convention when there was that strange change in the Party Platform to have language say that we would not arm ukraine in the event of russian aggression. And look at where we are today. And so all the pieces are here. We know whats going to happen, but because trump likes to surround himself with complete, pure loyalists, people who wont break if the face of a government investigation, you see hes installing his own family members at the rnc, making his own family members delegates from florida. This thing is completely being rigged for an operation to protect trump from any political or criminal accountability. It is pretty amazing. We have to sneak in a break. There is a deja vu feeling both to Paul Manafort and the ties to a foreign adversary. Well see if the political story replays. No ones going anywhere. That conversation next. That cont since my citi custom cash® card automatically adjusts to earn me more cash back in my top eligible category. Suddenly lifes feeling a little more automatic. Like doors opening wherever i go. [sound of airplane overhead] even the ground is moving for me yall seeing this . Wild and i dont even have to activate anything. Oooooohhh. 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Tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms, including breathing problems, cough, chest pain, a change in your heartbeat, dizziness, yellowing of the skin or eyes, dark urine, tiredness, loss of appetite, abdomen pain, bleeding, bruising, fever, chills, or other symptoms of an infection, a severe or worsening rash, are or plan to become pregnant, or breastfeeding. Long live life and long live you. Ask your doctor about kisqali today. To a pro russia position. Fool me once, shame on you. Twice, shame on me. What should we watch for as it pertains to manaforts tie to china . Its great to recall that manafort did involve himself in a plan that would give Eastern Ukraine to the russians. Thats something noteworthy. Im equally concerned about his connections to russia as i am about china. And the question is why would trump do this . Easy answer might be well no ones exactly lined up to work with trump these days. Okay. Ill give you that. But manafort has told us who he is. Hell work with even adversaries to get the job done. It might be that trump actually believes that he needs that kind of help if hes going to win again and manafort offers that. This is going to pose a counterintelligence problem if they try to watch what manaforts doing. Is he manipulating our foreign contacts . If im thinking from the viewpoint of foreign intelligence service, knowing how they operate, theyre excited about this news today. About the possibility that there could be someone who is vulnerable or willing to do their bidding because let me assure you, our adversaries are trying to influence the next election and manafort presents that opportunity to them. Amanda, its just unbelieve that were right back here again. I wonder if you think the United States National Security apparatus is more or less willing to have eyes on a campaign that may or may not represent a National Security threat . Yeah, thats a really good question. I just get a bad feeling. We know what happened last time and you know, if Paul Manafort is really going to helm this convention, that is a signal for the world that were open for business. That is pure and simple. Given all the backlash that trump has put against the National Security committee, i mean people talking about like defunding the fbi is a serious thing. In light of previous investigations. Unfortunately, i think there is a hesitance to treat these in politics. Thank you for the reporting. I feel like this conversation is to be continued. The book is fantastic. Long haul, hunting the highway serial killers. Its coming up soon and well get to talk about it. Another break for us and well be right back. T it another break for us and well be right back. So you can take all the pics vo tradein any iphone in any condition and get iphone 15 pro on us. Only on verizon [ cellphone ringing ] phone call from the boss . Sorry. Outdoor time is me time. I hear that. 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Other than being one of his biggest public platforms, wabc is one of his only remaining sources of income. An issue for rudy as he faces criminal charges, a number of lawsuits and the 148 million in damages he owes to ruby freeman and shaye moss. We thank you for letting us into your homes during these difficult and extraordinary times. The beat starts after a very short break. Stay with msnbc. Rts after a very short break. Stay with msnbc. Im on my way with clearer skin. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90 clearer skin at 4 months. And skyrizi is just 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. Serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. Nothing on my skin means everything nothing is everything ask your dermatologist about skyrizi. Learn how abbvie could help you save. Dad, whats with your toenail . Oh, that. . Im not sure. Its a nail fungus infection. 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