Good morning. Its 11 00 a. M. Eastern, 8 00 a. M. Pacific. Im jose diazbalart. Testimony under way for day 12 of former president Donald Trumps new york Hush Money Trial. The jury hearing from former Trump Organization controller Jeffrey Mcconney who played a role in reimbursing Michael Cohen for the payment he made to Stormy Daniels. Just before testimony resumed, the judge fined trump another 1,000 for violating the partial gag order imposed on him. Thats in addition to the 9,000 he was fined last week for previous violations. The judge also warned trump directly, future violations could see him sent to jail, saying, quote, it appears that 1,000 fines are not serving as a deterrent. With us now to talk more about this msnbc National Correspondent Yasmin Vossoughian outside the courthouse in lower manhattan. Michael zeldan, special counsel to robert mueller, hes a professor at American University and David Aaronberg state attorney for california. Yasmin, its been an intense day in the courtroom so far. I think we just lost yasmin. We just did. Let me ask you, dave, if i could, the morning started with this admonition by judge merchan to the former president. This is the tenth one, another grand. Its 10 grand, but its not doing a lot. The other big bombshell, if you will during todays testimony, is mcconney. Who is he and what is it that the prosecution is getting at with him . Hes the comptroller for the company. Weve heard his name before. Its important because this is the next phase of the trial. We had the sexy phase at first, that trump was involved from the beginning, he was part of the hushmoney scheme. Now its important prosecutors try to tie trump to the falsification of the Business Records. Thats where mcconney comes in because Michael Cohen sent mcconney the invoices and instructed him to frame them as Legal Services. Mcconney can say if trump was involved. That is key. Unless trump can be tied to the falsification of Business Records, the defense has reasonable doubt. I want to bring in Vaughn Hillyard outside the courthouse. Vaughn, what is going on right now . Reporter theyre currently getting into the minutia of the approval from Alan Weisselberg to Jeffrey Mcconney to have the Michael Cohen invoices approved and those reimbursement checks initially. The first two signed by weisselberg as well as don jr. Then the final one coming from Donald Trumps personal account and signed by donald trump himself. You have Jeffrey Mcconney, someone who worked for 35 years for the Trump Organization, a loyalist to donald trump and the family, testifying in the courtroom that he understood that the 35,000 checks that were being labeled in the ledger as monthly legal Retainer Expenses were actually reimbursements made to Michael Cohen for previous acts, as well as a doubling of that to cover tax purposes, as well as to offset bonus that Michael Cohen had argued he deserved. This is where youre getting at the heart of a key ally of donald trump within the Trump Organization testifying today that he in early 2017 mowingly was at the direction of Alan Weisselberg and checks signed by donald trump himself, was at the heart of the alleged falsification of Business Records by donald trump in an apparent scheme here that was number one, you have a group of folks that argue that donald trump was medic louse about the expenses and the way he spends his money through the Trump Organization and now you have an accounting by the individual who saw oversaw the accounting testifying here today that he at the direction of Alan Weisselberg through donald trump was the one providing those checks to Michael Cohen throughout the year of 2017. Michael, explain, if you would, why its important that the prosecution show that there was falsification of records and is that illegal if its done in a private organization . Yes. You cant falsify Business Records that youre submitted to the state. Thats a crime. Thats what at the heart of the Business Records. In addition to what vaughn said about the importance of the mcconney testimony, whats also important is one of the Defense Arguments is going to be Michael Cohen went rogue. This was him acting on his own for his own benefit, to be the good soldier for the Trump Organization, that trump was unaware of this. Hes blowing apart that reasonable doubt cohen rogue argument. Trump is Signing Checks. He knows the source of the money is the purpose of that repayment is. That undermines the key element what they tried to establish through hope hicks and davidson, that this was cohen on his own without trumps knowledge and consent. Its interesting because mcconney testified that trump instructed him not to just pay bills blindly, but to negotiate them at all times. Why is that an important statement . Well, trump wanted to be involved in this stuff. When he says that, you go ahead and negotiate, it means i want you to cut a good deal. It shows that trump is managing this. Hes not just standing on the side saying, do whatever you want to do. No. Trump is involved. Theres a leap we have to take, that trump would have been involved in knowing this was going to be recorded as Legal Services here. Also, its important to know that mcconney was instructed to make sure youre getting the best deal for the company. Mcconney wouldnt have just overpaid cohen for Legal Services unless he knew it was not for Legal Services, it was for hush money. This helped. Theres still a logical leap you have to take to get trump involved in this. At some point they have to tie him directly to this falsification scheme. Michael, how would Something Like that be tying trump in . Were seeing, as a matter of fact, its invoice after invoice that the jurors are seeing about retainer agreements, pay backs, giving this and that. Its almost like to use something that david used in the past, granular. Its almost breaking it down to the smallest denominator. What are the things that need to be proven or shown that would prove that trump was directly involved in this . Well, what they are trying to do is to say trump is a financial micromanager. Nothing goes on within Trump Organization that trump doesnt know about and approve. Theyre saying to the jury, the prosecutors are when they get to closing arguments, use your common sense. Would 400,000 which is about what cohen was repaid after the taxes and the rollout so its a complete wash for cohens 130,000, would it make sense for trump, who is renegotiating wanting to renegotiate Plumber Bills and furniture costs, that he would not know about the Michael Cohen 400,000 repayment. I think what theyre saying to the jury is this is who donald trump is. He is a cheapskate. Hes a micromanager and it makes no sense he could say this is cohen on his own without his consent. Then youll get other witnesses how it was recorded on the books, how the books were transmitted, what the tax benefits were by doing it this way. Alan weisselbergs name has come up as recently as today. There are no plans to call weisselberg, at least not by the prosecution. Hes in jail. What do you make of the fact that hes being spoken about, but will not be as part of the prosecutions witnesses . You cant talk about the finances about the Trump Organization without mentions its cfo Alan Weisselberg. Why would prosecutors call him as a witness because hes a loyalist to trump . Hes currently at Rikers Island because he lied for trump. Cohen has lied and perjured himself and spent time in prison. The prosecution is calling him. Hes a star witness. Hope hicks who was not exactly antitrump when she testified, yet was able to clarify a lot of things. Why would you not have that as a prosecutor . Hes a hostile witness for prosecutors. Hes not going to help the state. Hope hicks was helpful to the state. Michael cohen has lied in the past, but came clean. The reason he lied in the past was to protect trump. Weisselberg is a loyalist to his grave. Hell lie on the stand. Hell do nothing but hurt the states case and they dont need him. Vaughn, meanwhile, how is inside the courtroom today . There are a lot of invoices and emails being shown this morning. Reporter right. Theres a lot of documents they are using here in front of this jury. Again, for these jurors here theyre listening to somebody who is a 35year employee of donald trump who is evering after just leaving his position at the Trump Organization. As part of the civil fraud, he was found liable for engaging in Insurance Fraud and was barred in serving in a legal capacity for any institution in the state of new york. This is a longtime ally of donald trump. Thats for the prosecution much like we heard from hope hicks on the personnel side. You have somebody who was working in the form of an accountant here who is testifying here today about what was standard records keeping. Theres one exchange in which the prosecutor asked, did you send this invoice to the Legal Department . Meaning the Michael Cohen invoice for the compensation of 35,000. Mcconney says, no. Was it typical for the Legal Department to review requests for invoices like these . He said yes. When we talk about the importance of the falsification of Business Records and why Legal Expenses denoting them in the ledger as such, youre also dealing with the ability to make those tax deductible filings and checks to Michael Cohen. If you were simply paying off a Hush Money Payment to Stormy Daniels, youre not able to have a tax writeoff here. This is the reason and the understanding and the legal implications for Signing Checks for Legal Expenses versus compensating for hush money and why the falsification of Business Records is pertinent to the Trump Organization and trump personally. Everyone stay with us. Well have more on donald trump violating the gag order and the judge warning he could have to put him in jail. What that means, next. Were six months away from the election and trump is comparing to the nazis. Were back in 90 seconds. Youre watching jose diazbalart reports on msnbc. On msnbc oh, yeah, man. Take it from your inner child. What you really need in life is some freakin torque. What . The dodge hornet r t. The totally torquedout crossover. 15 past the hour. New developments in Donald Trumps Hush Money Trial. Judge merchan had this warning for trump. If he continues to violate the gag order, quote, as much as i do not want to propose a jail sanction, i will if necessary. Back with us live from outside the new york city courthouse, msnbc news correspondent Yasmin Vossoughian. Yasmin, talk about this whole trump order violation that the judge dealt with early this morning. There was a direct kind of statement from the judge to the former president about what he may be forced to do. Reporter yeah. It was a real, i think, dramatic moment in the first 30 minutes of the day, jose, which might be setting up what we expect for the remainder of the trial and that was his decision on this gag order. It was yet another violation of the gag order. The former president having to pay another 1,000 now, topping off at 10,000 he had to pay out in violations of these gag orders. This violation was pertaining to a comment made about the jury when the former president mentioned publicly he thought the jury was made up of 95 of democrats. The other two he did not find the president in violation of, comments made about Michael Cohen and david pecker as well. Let me read for you specifically, jose, if i can, what the judge said about the possibility of jail time for the former president if he continues to violate the gag order. He said, jose, the last thing i want to do is put you in jail. You are the former president of the United States and possibly the next president as well. There are many reasons why incarceration is truly a last resort for you, but then he goes on to say, but i have a job to do and i will do that job and essentially choose to incarcerate you if you keep and continue to violate the gag order. He mentions some of the difficulties in incarcerating a former president of the United States running for reelection. Secret service being a complication if he was put in jail. Hes taking that into understanding. It seems like judge juan merchan will not hesitate. It seems as if the former president is getting the message, along with his legal team. I think last week Susan Necheles said the former president would like to repost comments made. We want to ask the judge for permission if we can repost this. The judge said, its not my job to give you permission to whether or not you can post something. If youre skeptical, if you have reservations, my advice to you is, dont do it. Well wait and see if the former president continues to violate the gag order or if hes getting the message that judge merchan is ready, willing and able to put him in jail if necessary. Michael, whats your reaction to the judges ruling . Were in such unusual times. We are. I thought what the judge did was smart, which was to say you can go after cohen, you can go after pecker. These are adults in the room. Theyre expecting this sort of attack and theyve been attacked by you for a long time. Essentially its not desirable but not con item chus. The jury is another matter. I think hes doing a good job making sure trump has his Free Speech Rights to the maximum extent possible, but he cordoned off that area that is off limits and to the extent trump keeps touching on those areas, hell keep getting fined. Im doubtful hell go to jail. The courtrooms i practice in have a lockup behind the courtroom where courts hold prisoners coming from jail. Maybe thats all that trump needs to get the seriousness of the gag orders imposed on by a serious judge. Its so wild. This whole thing is so wild. David, what are the options . Is it feasible . It is. I agree with michael on this. The judge is telegraphing this because he may have to push the nuclear button, which is to put trump in jail. I dont think he is going to wear an orange jump suit and go to jail. If trump continues down this road, hell put him in timeout. Hell put him in a room and say you stay there in an hour. To think of him as wearing Steel Bracelets before trial, no. What are the facilities that exist . Michael explained what they are. What are some of the facilities in counties throughout the country . A lot of courthouses have these little rooms in there. Its for people who need that timeout. Its for contempt. That could happen here eventually. The judge knows that its a fraught move if hes going to put the former president in jail, incarceration, and maybe thats what trump wants to show grievance to his supporters because thats what they thrive on. Hes telegraphing. Hes saying, youre forcing my hand. Please dont force my hand. Maybe he sits in a room for an hour. Stay with us. More developments from trumps Hush Money Trial. Breaking moments ago, President Biden speaks to benjamin netanyahu. Youre watching jose diazbalart reports on msnbc. Diazbalart reports on msnbc. So, heres to now. Boost. Its time. Yes, the time has come for a fresh approach to dog food. Everyday, more dog people are deciding its time to quit the kibble and feed their dogs fresh food from the farmers dog. 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There is a Morning Recess announced by the judge. Mcconney is the witness and has stepped off the witness stand. The former president also leaving the courtroom right now. This is just moments ago. We continue meanwhile to follow Breaking News concerning the israel hamas war. President biden just finished a call with israeli Prime Minister benjamin netanyahu. They spoke just hours after israel ordered about 100,000 people to evacuate from eastern rafah. This was the Scene Inside Rafah earlier today showing families packing up and leaving. The Evacuation Order comes as israeli officials vow to carry out an operation in the city. The announcement complicating fraught negotiations for a ceasefire deal. Two sources tell nbc news the talks have not completely collapsed. Joining us from tel aviv raf sanchez. Whats the situation . It seems to be getting more difficult and dangerous. Reporter its an extremely critical moment, jose, in this long war in these long negotiations. President biden wrapping up a phone call with Prime Minister benjamin netanyahu. The white house has been saying for months that it opposes a largescale Israeli Ground operation in the city of rafah where more than 1 million Palestinian Civilians are sheltering. Now we have signs on the ground that operation may be beginning. Israeli aircraft dropping leaflets with a message saying, get out. Were about to attack this area. This is part of what israel says is its commitment to destroying hamas, destroying the hamas battalions they say are hiding in rafah. The u. N. Has warned a largescale attack could be a catastrophe. Now, jose, its important to note, at this time, we have not seen any evidence of Israeli Ground forces actually moving into rafah. Israeli officials tell me the timing of the Ground Operation will be determined by the Israeli Government and will depend on how long it takes for the Palestinian Civilians to evacuate out of eastern rafah. Its possible this is the beginning of the ground offensive. Its also possible, jose, this is Benjamin Netanyahus way of upping the pressure in the ceasefire negotiations. Over the weekend in cairo it looked like there was progress, but this morning it appears these talks are deadlocked on a familiar issue, whether these are negotiations are about a temporary pause in the fighting or ending the war, which is what hamas wants. The cia director has been crisscrossing the region all weekend trying to breathe new life into these talks. Theyre at a dead lock right now. They have not collapsed at this point. The deep hope of the families, of the hostages in israel, of the civilians in gaza is that a ceasefire can be reached and that may head off an Israeli Offensive in rafah. Netanyahu announcing today that israels going to be shutting down al jazirra. Reporter thats right, jose. The Israeli Police raiding their offices in east jerusalem. If you try to tune your television in israel right now to their channel, you get a black screen with a message in hebrew that says this channel is no longer broadcasting. Israel says al jazeera is a hamas mouth piece and its a danger to national security. Al jazeera is saying that israel is trying to suppress reporting about what is happening in gaza. Local press groups in israel are condemning this move. Jose . Raf sanchez in tel aviv, thank you. Up next, trumps trial in recess. Well go back to new york city on what we heard about payments made to Michael Cohen. Plus, the race to be Donald Trumps running mate over the weekend. Who stood out while auditioning for the role . Youre watching jose diazbalart reports on msnbc. A. Mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Infections that can cause shingles have occurred. Dont stop steroids unless told by your doctor. Tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. May cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. 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So call now for free information, and youll also get this free beneficiary planner. And its yours free just for calling, so call now for free information. 35 past the hour. We have these images just coming across our newsroom. This is the former president going back inside the courthouse and the courtroom. The Morning Recess apparently continues, but it looks like its about to wrap up. There you see the former president and his attorneys heading back in. Today marks less than six months until election day. This weekend many of former president Donald Trumps potential picks for Vice President were at maralago for a Donor Retreat. With us is Washington Post Phillip Rucker and joining us David Drucker Senior Writing at the dispatch. Phil, On Saturday The Rnc Donor Retreat there, trump compared the Biden Administration to the gestapo. I dont know how to ask this question other than what the hell . Well, you know, theres a pattern here of donald trump who has been trying to use these criminal indictments against him, not just the one in new york where hes Standing Trial right now, but the federal indictments relating to his misuse of classified documents and election interference to argue to his supporters that the criminal Justice System is working unfairly against him, that these are politically motivated. The documents show the mountain of evidence that prosecutors have gathered to allege these crimes. Its not a political process. Its a criminal process. This is a Messaging Tactic that trump and his allies have used to build support within the Republican Party around his 2024 candidacy. Looks like the courtroom is back in session. The judge right now speaking to everybody in the courtroom. You know, i think, phil, i asked that question and i appreciate your thoughts on it. You know, just hitler, gestapo, ss, these are such horrible, horrendous people and what that system did, its just to compare anything with that is such a such an insult. Yeah. Well, the persecution of nazi germany was a very different kind of affair historically. Obviously that was an assault against a whole people, against all the jewish people in many parts of europe. Thats not, of course, what we see happening here with the criminal prosecution of one man, of donald trump. David, meanwhile, senator tim scott is apparently on the list for potential vp choices for trump. Heres how he answered kristen welkers questions about whether he would accept the 2024 Election Results. Just yes or no, will you accept the Election Results of 2024 . I look forward to President Trump being the 47th president. Kristen, you can ask it multiple times. Senator, just a yes or no. The American People will make the decision i dont hear you committing the American People si or no is not that complicated. What do you make of it . Its totally not surprising at all. You have a number of republicans competing to become trumps running mate. Theres certain subjects trump is not allowing any delineation. Was the 2020 election rigged or fair . What do you do if trump loses in 2024 . These are areas youll see like tim scott try to dance around the previous position, when their previous position was that trump lost the 2020 election, that there may have been fraud here and there, but nothing that rose to the level of overturning the fair and legitimate results. In any other circumstance they would probably be offended she would ask them would they accept the 2024 results if they lose, because of course they would. In this case they have to echo the leader. The leader is saying otherwise and nobody wants to be marked off the list when its something as simple as this that hes grading you on. David, a new abc news poll shows biden and trump essentially neck in neck. Trump leads biden by 17 points on immigration. This morning nbc news has exclusive reporting. The democrats are preparing to go on the offense on immigration. Part of that plan would include forcing votes that republicans would likely oppose, two sources say. Is this an issue that democrats could successfully turn around . So far the issue of immigration has been utilized successfully by republicans to hammer at democrats. Well, i think it depends on, number one, how do they go on offense . Whats the president s agenda in this regard . Number two, what are the conditions at the border . One of the reasons why donald trump polls better on this issue is because you have a lot of voters, particularly those swing voters, soft republicans who dont want to vote for trump who want to see smaller border crossings. They think President Bidens policies have led to dysfunction, chaos and lack of security at the border. If the president tightens up security and tries to put republicans on record, are they going to vote to tighten security or not, these are the sorts of things that could help biden Going Forward on this issue. If its simply a matter of messaging, well have to see whats the message, whats the agenda and does it work . When i travelled the country and talked to republicans and democrats about the issues that are concerning voters in competitive states, that the election will hinge on, immigration and the perceived lack of security at the Southern Border are one of the top things they mentioned that democrats are concerned about, even if they dont think its fair, even if they think the president s done a good job, they concede that voters in their state dont necessarily agree. A lot of democrats would like to see the president do something about this. Phillip rucker and David Drucker, thank you both. Up next, The Trump Trial just went back into session. What were hearing this morning. 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An invoice submitted by Michael Cohen saying according to the retainer, per the retainer, hence the 35,000 paid to Michael Cohen every year. The break down, 105,000 total from the Revokable Trust and 315,000 total from Donald Trumps personal account. Each payment going through donald trump himself. Important to lay that out, jose, the documentation and, again, going back to the importance of these documents for the jury to understand completely why it is they paid out a total of 420,000 to Michael Cohen over a period of a year to reimburse him and once again breaking it down to 130,000 that was going to Stormy Daniels. A 60,000 pay out for a bonus. Then the rest of it all for taxes, totaling 420,000, jose. Interesting because as this breakdown was being, you know, focussed upon, there was an objection. It was just as they were talking about the donald Trump Revokable trust. There was an objection. A Bench Hearing and now theyre going back to an exhibit, which is exactly the document of the Revokable Trust account. Dave, what is the prosecution doing with this specific aspect . Heres the breakdown. Heres where the money came from. Heres where the money was deposited. Do you think trump knew nothing about this . The Revokable Trust his signatures are on thetrumps. If hes such a cheap stake, you think hes going to be Signing Checks for unspecified Legal Services Above And Beyond the actual Legal Services. Remember, its not 130,000 here. He was a Micro Manager who wants to negotiate everything downward yet this is negotiated upward. That is the logic the prosecutors are trying to close saying, see, jurors, you can now draw this conclusion. Is that a conclusion, michael, that is becoming more and more evident or do you still think there is a large gap between that possibility . Well, theyre closing it and remember a couple of things to keep in mind about this indictment. One is that trump doesnt have to be convicted of the secondary crime. The finance federal or state finance. He just has to have the intention of doing it. One of the three crimes they said trump had the intention of violating was federal tax, sorry, federal election, state election, and New York State tax. So one of the things that theyre at with mcconney at the moment is to say that these transactions here were not showing that trump had knowledge this was an intent to violate the tax laws of new york. And so even if the juror went to find that it wasnt done solely for the purposes of protecting trump from bad election law stuff, if they could find that he was in violation of it for tax purposes, they meet their burden of proof. There are a couple of things going on over the course of this trial. Election is one intent. Tax is now coming forward through mcconney as another intent what trump was trying to do here. David, there hasnt been, as of yet, or as of right now, a specific statement of where this, where the money came from, yes, but what this money exactly was for. Where do you show that . Where do you show that this money specifically went to this . Well, it was listed as legal fees, right, and legal fees is a broad term, but its not listed as Hush Money Payments. That is the scam here, right . This wasnt for his Legal Services. Even though legal fees can be seen as broad, this had nothing to do with Michael Cohen doing anything legal except for Negotiating A Hush Money Payment to benefit trumps campaign. That last little question is did trump know about it. Did he know this was going to be falsified. Here, youre having all the circumstantial evidence. Of course he did. Hes a Micro Manager. As michael said, a cheapskate. So he would not have overpaid Michael Cohen for these unspecified payments unless he was in on the scam. Thank you so much for being with us. 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It powers big jobs and small ones too. From hospitals to hospitality, people rely on propanean Energy Source thats affordable, plentiful, and environmentally friendly for everyone. Get the facts at propane. Com now. Live pictures of just outside the courtroom in new york city. We continue to follow Donald Trumps Hush Money Trial and bring you any updates, but were also following more Breaking News this morning. Just moments ago, mike johnson called on the columbia Board Of Trustees to remove the universitys president. It comes just hours after columbia announced it is canceling its University Wide commencement after weeks of protests and growing unrest over the war in gaza. Antonio hilton joins us from columbia university. How did this happen . Reporter good morning, jose. This has been in the works for several days and in fact, nbc news was first to report last week that officials here were looking at reimagining, rethinking their Commencement Ceremony and thats what was announced this morning. The community wide, campus wide, sort of classic image of what graduation is supposed to look like, that has been canceled. The one that takes place on the lawn with thousands of people in their caps and gowns. Instead, theyre going to focus their energy on class day exercises and School Specific smaller celebrations. For the students and families weve been speaking to, there are some mixed emotions here. Some saw it coming. Theyre not too surprised. Others are a bit heartbroken. This was the case that graduated in zoom or in cars or so socially distanced that they felt they didnt get a Real High School graduation and now here they are experiencing a disruption all over again. As you mentioned, the speaker, mike johnson, releasing a statement encouraging or really pushing the trustees here at columbia to ask the president to resign is just adding to the atmosphere here on campus of pressure. Not just here from member of their own community, but nationwide, jose. And so antonio, this School Specific graduation and as far as we understand, there will be some ceremony, Maybe School By school, but there will be some ceremony . Reporter thats right. Students will still get the chance to walk across the stage, get their diploma in hand. So anyone worried about that, they will still get some of that classic tradition, but what you are not going to see is the big Commencement Ceremony where thousands of people all stand, rise together, move the tassles on their caps. This was made because of Security Concerns and students raised concerns about how many of their classmates would feel seeing their president speak after these last few weeks. Thank you so very much. That wraps up the hour for me. You can reach me on social media and you can watch clips from our show at msnbc. Com jdb, on youtube. Thank you for the privilege of your time. Andrea mitchell picks up with more news right now. L picks up more news right now. Right now on Andrea Mitchell reports, fireworks at the trump Hush Money Trial this morning with judge merchan threatening the former president with the possibility of jail time