Good morning. It is saturday, may 4. I am Alicia Menendez with Michael Steele and Melissa Murray in for symone sanderstownsend. Donald trumps threats for democracy, saying he will fire attorneys who do not do his bidding. And the Biden Campaign on offense as the republicans further restrict report Reproductive Rights in the south. And hope hicks delivers potentially devastating testimony and the new york criminal trial. Susanne craig and katie phang at the table. More than six months until election day and donald trump is dangerously already refusing to commit to accepting the results of the 2024 election. Pushing the big lie in an interview, trump said this about the 2024 race. Quote, if editing is honest, i would gladly except the results. If not, you have to fight to the right for the country. This is coming after speaking with Time Magazine and saying hinting at another january 6 would happen if he loses. Joining us now is former Executive Director of the New York State democratic party, basil smikle. Quick question. When do people realize that donald trump means what he says . Is it a small group of us who are listening to this man repeatedly say the same thing over and over and over again . Does not sway off of it. His base is there and they are down for. What is in the media and what is in politics a people cannot begin to take with this menacing seriously and prepare and gird ourselves against what will be a very difficult election . You and i were probably raised away were someone told you, if someone said something to you, you believe them. That is how i was raised and i think most of us were raised that way. What was the attraction for donald trump in 2016 is that he would be a big disruptor. But now he has shifted into dictator and i think the challenge for so many of us as we go out into talk to voters what what is at stake here is to say that this is no longer disruptive politics. He has told you time and time again what he will do. What i think is that a lot of voters see that as a sign of strength because they respond to strength. There is some misogyny in there and a toxic masculinity that is in there as well. A lot of voters respond to this kind of strength. But what they do not understand is that he is intent upon taking the thousands of people who he could appoint in government, put his followers and they say this word very carefully, followers into these positions so that they can do his bidding. The guardrails will be off. I dont think the people really understand the importance of those positions. They want to vote for the person and after go back and say it is not just the person, it is everyone that he will appoint that will move the bureaucracy in a way that he sees fit, not for the good of the people. So, we heard about how donald trump is appealing to blackmail voters. And the criminal problems similar to the fact that the issues that black america faces. The idea of marshaling the government against a group of people. There is an interesting tactic that he has used. Donald trump has been a person that loves celebrity so he goes to the celebrities first. Eddie gives them an opportunity to talk to everybody else. With all due respect, here stephen a. Smith say what hes going to is what blackmon go through. You said that the exonerated five should be on death row. Is nowhere near the same thing but what they do, what he does is he gets a Certain Group of folks in the community to then be his mouthpiece. What i dont think they realize is that they are being his mouthpiece. That starts to filter down a little bit. But then it becomes incumbent upon us to be able to counteract that. I was at morehouse at the beginning of april and when i talked to the students they get the assignment. Have some concerns about joe biden and we get that, but he understands the assignment. The neatest speak to the Social Justice agenda. And i think we have to continue to beat that drum. Anyone who has done Civic Engagement knows that theres a child to talk about Election Integrity which is you can freak voters out. You can demotivate voters by making them think their vote doesnt matter because theres already something wrong in the system. It was interesting to me in the wake of Donald Trumps comments you have the Wisconsin Republican party want you to come on. I want to ask you this is a national chair. This is what the Wisconsin Republican party responded. This other public a party of wisconsin has taken unprecedented steps to ensure the 2024 election will be the most secure in our states history. We are confident that the will of wisconsin voters will be made clear on election day look forward to winning the trust and support. This is from the wisconsin gop chair. They know the statements are a problem for the voters they need to turn out. They always are. Can we just put on the table for the record, that our elections in this country, and it does have this conversation in my travels last week about the american elections everything said so corrupt. Bs on that. It is not corrupt. Our elections are some of the most secure in the world. The men and women at the Grassroots Level who are out there churning the efforts to make sure that that happens are good men and women. The concern that a lot of State Parties have and a lot of Election Officials have is whether or not, because of the toxic environment that trump has created run voting, that people will not show up to volunteer as it once did because they do not want to live under threat. If our neighbor, who has gone have crazy over trump. Its a lot of women. The women are predominantly poll workers and they are afraid. One of the most compelling arguments to make to folks who are interested in the process but do not follow it day today is that is a state party leader, i know when you dont vote. We know this. We go back 15 and 20 is to find your voting record. If theres a campaign with limited resources and limited time, what are they going to do . They want to pick and choose where they will get the votes. Based on whether or not people actually go out and cast a ballot. When you tell me that your vote doesnt count, it does count because we know when you dont. If you decide not to vote over periods of time, and groups of people make that same decision, if i am a Campaign Leader with limited resources and time, i dont go there. That happens year after year after year, you have communities, whether it is base on race or ethnicity or geography, communities are not getting substantial representation because they do not cast a ballot. A lot of folks want to say, im not going to do it in protest. You can protest your way out of being represented well. Heres a problem. You donald trump saying i will accept the results if they are honest. The process is an honest process. The results will be honest. The idea that you think of all the elections that we have had in the history of this country that your election is the least honest and the most corrupt, it just shows the fallacy of what the man is laying out there. Donald trump is afraid of losing. Because it strikes at the core of the thing that is most important to him, and that is his ego. He doesnt want to do the work to actually win. He wants to go and control and bully people into believing something about our system because he is too weak of a man to actually go out and Campaign Like any other normal candidate who would go out and campaign. That is your truth, donald trump and what you are trying to do is game the system, as he did in 2016 and 2020, to say that, if i dont win, the system is corrupt. No, donald trump, if you dont win, its because more people voted against you then for you and our Electoral System confirm that. Is bigger the winning the election. We stoke the view that there is rampant voter fraud, not only do have an explicit for why you didnt win, loss of an impetus for states to enact more Zirconium Laws that make it harder for certain communities to vote. It is a two prong strategy to not only explain whatever might be the results of the selection, but to lay the foundation for making future elections less democratic. And i will add a third leg. If you have a judiciary that is going to side with states that, during obamas term, say this all the time. 1000 democrats lost their seats so if you see that all of the policies are being pushed to the states and you have a judiciary in place so that if anything goes to court, they can start the new shopping. Finding the path of least resistance and therefore you get all of the policies that are enacted. This is a grand scheme and i think if we dont focus on that aspect and is of just voting for the man, but for the agenda and all of the people that are part of that agenda, then, we escape this issue of diminishing. Stick around because we have a lot more want to get into from trumps interview this week that we need to discuss for sure and later, and your team this mcnear times contributor frank bruni will be here to discuss the unrest on campus. You are watching the weekend. ella fashion moves fast. Setting trends is our business. We need to scale with customer demand. 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Deploy the National Guard as he sees fit and got the u. S. Civil service, weeding out those who disagree with them ideological. Basil smikle is with us. That is a chilling way to start it. I read the article after listening to the Supreme Court s Oral Argument and immunity claim and it was very authoritarian forward and this article did not do much to dispel my fears about rising threats to democracy. How to the democrats message this right now to make these threats urgent and imperative to the voting public . Theyve done a good job as far as if joe biden had not stepped into it as much we start to see him do that more so now. That is important because it needs to be the one to articulate that. This goes back to what i am seeing earlier that there are a lot of voters that i think are somewhat dismissive. Not anyone at this table or anyone watching us right now but a lot of voters ares very dismissive about the danger of this because they think the guardrails are in place and i think with the democrats need to do, the doing this a little bit with putting out the Cabinet Members as well, to talk about what they do with their own jobs and why it is important that people like them were Public Servants actually stay in office and be able to do the work that they are going to do, because this is a concern that i have always had. It is incredibly deceptive what donald trump is doing and i dont think we realize how easy it is to be duped by that because it feels, to some voters, as i am going to be adjacent to the people in power. It doesnt work that way. The difference is the people in power have Executive Authority. You dont have Executive Authority. It was interesting to hear the reporter on the timepiece talk about the interview on cspan. Ticket listen to what he said. Donald trump is right now embarking on a strategic and coordinator plan to come into office and consolidate the power of government inside the office of the presidency. To remove many of the guardrails that stood in his way in a first term. Most of what he is planning to do is to Executive Authority rather than legislation. What we are seeing is a restoration to the level of Executive Power and an expansion of Executive Power that we have not seen in this country in the postwatergate era. You talk about a dictatorship. You could talk about authoritarian tendencies to talk about expanding Executive Authority. It is all the same thing. It is all the same thing. The funny part is i remember doing during the obama administration, because of the inability to move anything legislatively in the house because of republican control of the house and the refusal to actual cooperate and work with the ministration given that Mitch Mcconnell said at the very beginning, we will make him a one term president and that did not go well. They lambasted the administration for using Executive Authority. On this, so far, i have heard nothing from republicans about what a second term looks like and i think it is important right now for the press to press those republicans who are running in the house and senate , to examine openly what they think when they read the president say, for example, in this interview that people who come to the country are not civilians, they are people that are not legally in our country. This is an invasion of our country and the idea that he would use Executive Authority to round them up and take them someplace, god knows where, and move them out of the country or to use Executive Authority to eviscerate the very people that they work with in congress. How today navigate that space . When we talk about this with respect to the january 6 rioters , donald trump has always talked about and hinted that he would pardon them and that is problematic but i mortgage about who he will arrest because theres so much behavior that we now take for granted where peoples actual jobs that we take for granted that he may, using that kind of authority, to criminalize, librarians, teachers, the work we do now. We have his allies think hes going to go after people in the media and criminalize their behavior. Say goodbye to free speech. I think consistently hitting those themes is very important. But my fear again is that i dont think enough americans are really aware of the power that president s have with the Executive Authority, especially if he potentially, donald trump, puts all of his loyalists into these offices. What you say is really important. We have seen authoritarian tendencies before but there have always been guardrails and we have the prospect of impeachment. In a very polarized environment it is a paper tiger. It is no check at all. The media could be a check, but not if you arrest them. What are going to be the checks . Perhaps it is the judiciary. The best thing that donald trump did for republicans was to stop the federal judiciary with ideologues. Conservatives who are deep in the movement were going to rule in the way that i think he would find consistent with his platform. Are there no checks Going Forward at this man is the president . The best check is the vote and we have to get more people out there remembering and believing and internalizing that the vote actually does matter. The other thing i would say, particularly young voters, led of the students i indirectly say theyre not voting this time and i say this might be the last time that you can vote. I think when they wake up to that reality, ultimately, think they will do it but with a wake up to the reality that the rights are consistently being abrogated, taken away from them, stuff that they woke up believing was going to always be in place and is no longer in place. When that really starts to hit home, and you sit around Reproductive Rights. You will see it much more. When you start realizing that the rights will surely and surely be taken away and will force them to act. We see students of eakly engage. To matter where you are on policy, you can see how students are cynically engaged. Caps that input in the direction where they get to vote in this. Outside of abortion, most americans are Sleep Walking through this. I think this falls flat in the face of American People right now because are not focused on this and theyre going to wake up on wednesday after the election and it will be very different. Not just abortion, trust me. I know that you are a night owl so thank you for waking up early to be with us. True act of french or. Trump on trial. One of his closest confidence. We will talk about it with Susanne Craig at our colleague katie phang. Or ted, which may need a different doctor. Find a ted Eye Specialist at isitted. Com. Missing out on the things you love because of asthma . Get back to better breathing with fasenra, an addon treatment for Eosinophilic Asthma that is taken once every 8 weeks. Fasenra is not for sudden Breathing Problems or other eosinophilic conditions. Allergic reactions may occur. Dont stop your Asthma Treatments without talking with your doctor. Tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. 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It will be a blanket pardon. Folks, in my estimation, they just need to understand virtually everything that is coming out of this mans mouth is geared towards establishing a new order in the United States with him at the center of it. All things emanating from him in terms of our rights and our liberties as they are defined by donald trump, except for Reproductive Rights where he is tacking back to the middle which is different from what was a few years ago and saying this will be an issue for the states. Was talked about the fact everyone who is in his mill you are talking about the comstock act, the act that is literally a zombie law on the books that if he is president again, you basically just direct the doj to start enforcing the law all over again. That is a nationwide ban on abortion. He is lying. He is absolutely lying that his idea of giving it to the states. The republican brand and the party will come the trump the ministration and enforce a national ban across the country. Full stop. That is going to happen. The prolife maga folks are nervous and concerned but are quietly being told to not make a lot of noise because with to get through the election. Donald trump will face forward and lied to the country and seemingly move on this issue. An issue that he really does not care about. An issue that we know he is pro choice anyway but he is going to play the game and he is going to say what he needs to say to avert any more hits on this issue. Political hits. Just know that the national ban is coming and exactly what you are saying. We watched Arizona Begrudgingly move off of the issue and you have kari lake trying to pretend that we do not hear how she really feels about that law. All of that comes back the wednesday after this november election if donald trump is elected. I think people need to keep that in mind. If youre watching the Supreme Court and youre watching and he has multiple ways. He could deploy the department of justice to have the comstock act. He could have the doj free reinforce priorities. They will blessed. They are we are. It is v live in california. It will apply to virtually everything that touches in your life and that you touch in your life. For me, that is the clarion call for the American People. I get how you feel about the economy and they get how you feel of a lot of things but those things will not matter if your fundamental ability to express openly your views or to freely associate with interests that align with your views, that is a different place to be and im not going to worry about how much gas prices cost if i cannot tell the president or speak openly against policies i do not agree with. The New York Times frank bruni will help us understand about the demonstrations taking place on campuses around this country. You are watching the weekend. 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Columbia university is reconsidering how to move forward with graduation ceremonies. Nbc news reports they are reassessing the Commencement Plans following can Security Concerns after week of the palestinian protest on campus. They came to a head on tuesday with the protesters barricaded themselves inside a building on campus. The university asked new york police to clear the hall and maintain presence on campus through may 17. It is one of dozens of colleges that has seen protest of the past two weeks. Law enforcement agencies have arrested or detained 2400 people on about 40 campuses around the country. Joining us as New York Times s columnist frank bruni. Is the age of grievance. That cover. There is an ageold question of how do you allow for free speech while also protecting security and safety and this is an age old concern. President biden weighed in to talk about the conundrum. Lets hear what he had to say. There should be no place in any campus, no place in america for antisemitism or threats of violence against jewish students. There is no place for hate speech or violence of any kind whether it is antisemitism, islamophobia. It is simply wrong. Theres no place for racism in america. Does this thread the needle . How long it took him to say that. When we talk about this, we seldom acknowledge how tough what is going on when it comes into he would want to be a University President right now . Nobody. Free speech is crucially important. The right to protest peacefully is crucially important. Also is that students are not feeling intimidated and that theyre not living in fear and that we are not a betting anti semitism. Out some of the decisions the people like the University President s need to make and the statement that biden has to make, needs to thread the needle to make sure youre protecting both of the things which are in tension with each other in some campuses right now. You mentioned dozens of campuses. Not hundreds of campuses, not thousands of campuses. I teach at Duke University and we have not had protest of this kind because republicans extrapolating and weapon icing is a look at the lawlessness and the entire brainwashed woke generation. This is a minority of College Students. Most College Students are worried about getting an a, getting a job, and be able to compete in a brutally competitive economy. You mentioned the first part which is important with respect to free speech and the right to protest but there are limits on that. There are absolute limits that can be placed on what you can do with that. That is part of that thread in the needle. How do i, as an administration, whether it is a College University ministration or president ial administration, work within the political reality of what people see on television . And what people see on television seems like thousands of universities, not a dozen university, thats when you have with the Washington Post notes with the skill of the Investigation Efforts i like the gop eagerness to use it as a political cudgel. The idea the other side and the political environment to use the limitations that you have brought up as a cudgel against the system, as a cudgel against the administration and as a cudgel against this idea of free speech, showing up at gw trying to provoke the students and antagonize the students to respond. Students see idiotic or see when they know it. And did not respond to that. Its a difficult place for the sins want to express their rights freely and the ministration again the university or president ial that has to has to navigate that as well. The temperature is so much higher than what we see from the outside actors. The rivalries and reactors. I do not think it is helpful that mike johnson went to columbia and said maybe we should call the National Guard. He had done something extremely admirable in making common cause with democrats or wrote something praising him. But i think to get back in with the rights, he did this again. We need the not using this to make larger points to turn up the temperature but saying things that urge calm and that is not what happens in our political debate anymore because it is so grievance driven. Its part of why found your book so compelling. Very often, we talk about if donald trump would ride off into the Sunset Comedy Things would go away. I know you do not lay the totality at the foot of donald trump but this is something that has grown in the wake of his presidency. I wonder what the Undoing Looks like with or without donald trump in our political future. I think the end of trump will help us. He is not just in agent of grievance, he is an emblem of grievance. He was elected because he spoke to something in a lot of people. He is so insistent and intended on exploiting the grievance. I do think we will be well served by the posttrump era but what that looks like, whether the passions of the maga crowd survive, i dont know if they survive intact. The antidote he is offering his humility and i dont know how you bring humility to scale. I think this is beyond trump at this point having just traveled abroad and listened to the fervor for donald trump in europe. I think this is beyond him in terms of the magafication. We have russia seeking to exploit america post was divisions of the war in gaza. You have that piece of what is happening on college campuses. Ai is playing a role in this and how they narrate and frame these conversations. For a college professor, authors, those who are tapped into the culture and political pulse of the country, how do you see this really toxic mix being stirred up for this election by outside forces, forces here on the ground, you mentioned people protesting who are not even students, to showing up and putting on a black mask and doing their thing. This is a difficult space for this country, because we let down our guard in some respects and we think that the bad will not happen or in some cases, encouraging the bad to happen to change the way things are running. Adults in the room have to act like the adults in the room. Which campus and students. I have taught at duke for three years many different classes and i will tell you that you enter the classroom on day one and minute one, so you want coolheaded discussions and diversity of viewpoints and i dont want Anyone Shaming anyone else, you can set a tone that becomes the reality. I do not think, the rightwing Talking Points that this is a lost generation, dont think this is true. But i think it is a generation calling out for leadership and i think all of us need to step up and provide those examples of leadership. Thank you very much. We appreciate your. The new book is called the age of grievance and frank bruni is the author. And floridas abortion ban is taken affect. You are watching the weekend. Vo schedule Free Mobile Service now at safelite. Com. Safelite repair, safelite replace. ella fashion moves fast. At safelite. Com. Setting trends is our business. We need to scale with customer demand. In real time. jen so we partner with verizon. Their solution for us . A private 5g network. ella we now get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. marquis with a custom private 5g network. Our customers get what they want, when they want it. jen now were even smarter and ready for whats next. vo achieve enterprise intelligence. 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What will this mean for women in florida . The six week Abortion Ban Cuts off Abortion Access for most people before they know they are pregnant. It is taking florida backwards. Literally overnight, women woke up and had less freedoms than they had the day before and that is not okay. All we want is for you to have the same freedoms that their mothers and grandmothers did. The abortion ban is devastating and will have sweeping impacts across the southeast. May i ask another question of you, leader driskell. There was an Oral Argument about whether this man could go on the ballot in november and parts of the Oral Argument had language that sounded in the register of Fetal Personhood. How worried are you that the prospect of imbuing the fetus with rights is a real thing coming to florida and other states across the u. S. Soon . I was there that week for the Oral Argument and concerned listening to the justices questions of the attorneys who cannot really answer. We have seen Fetal Personhood bills in the legislature so this is something that republicans in florida are trying. It concerns me, frankly, that if we pass this, we have the ability to protect abortion in the constitution with amendment 4. I believe that people will do. It concerns me that republicans in the legislature will come back and try to define the concept of viability but we cannot be afraid of that right now. We have to move forward and talk to voters about this issue. We have to recognize it is not a partisan issue for voters because republicans, independents, and democrats will sign the petitions to get this on the ballot. Is just about extremist republican politicians who want to fight against everything else. We need to do what we can and we have to do with that with the next legislation session when it comes. Donald trump said on thursday, i think the Abortion Issue should be largely taken off the table because individual states are doing what they are doing and so far, the votes are on the liberal side, as you noticed. I think that leaving it to the states is accepting that half of the population will not have access to abortion. As a way to avoid the question without really accepting the you are okay with half of the People Living without access to lifesaving procedures, in many cases. Were talking about vans that are total abortion bans. Some of even the worst that weve seen in other countries or in Latin America or central america. I think they are just saying that the states are the decisionmakers. Half of the population facing risks with the life and health. The other side is noted in our last segment, on this issue, donald trump is essentially going to lie about what will happen in this administration. There is a strong push inside the Republican Party to push a national ban. You know that at some point, that will have an impact and the reality will be there for states like california, new york, and elsewhere, this idea that a state they could go in one direction, that is not ultimately how this will play out. Absolute. He is responsible for this and feels extremely proud of the fact that he was with the overturned roe v. Wade. I think we cannot forget that part. This is something that has been key on his platform and just because now the voters are showing in favor of abortion, he is seeming iffy about it. But we cannot forget that he is responsible for the mess we are in right now. The window has shifted. The Dobbs Decision was on upholding and abortion ban at 15 weeks. That was somewhat joe cronin in 2022. Now we are viewing 15 weeks and 12 weeks as a broad access because we are dealing with laws that ban it entirely. What does this mean at how anesthetized we have become to these assaults on reproductive freedom . I think i would like to compare what is happening in Latin America. Latin america for years had restriction similar to the ones we have seen in the United States. 12 weeks, even inception. Risk of life, rape. What we saw is that those systems dont really work when it comes to giving access. At the end of the day, people were suffering the consequences of not be able to receive the procedure to protect the life, their health, or even the choice. Not even talking about choosing to not become a mother. Talking about Health Procedures and what happened was, because we saw what these types of limits cause, we changed our laws. The last four years, argentina, colombia, and others have liberalized the laws. The limits system does not really work because it relies on the doctor. The relies the judge. Puts the decision with somebody who should not be making those decisions. Its no longer a medical decision if it becomes a legal decision. Lets hear what Vice President harris has to say. Another Trump Abortion Ban went into effect here in florida. As of this morning, 4 million women in this state woke up with fewer reproductive freedoms than they had last night. This is the new reality under a Trump Abortion Ban. So, this referendum to destroy Abortion Rights as it would have to be over by 60 of voters. That means that the Threshold Cannot be made by democratic voters. What will it take to get other voters to join democratic voters in the effort . The great thing about amendment 4 is that it gives us a way to talk to voters about an issue that they are caring about. We had proof of concept when we flit from democrat to republican this year. We talk about what they cared about which was Abortion Access. It immediately disqualify the republican candidate because the candidate was not going to protect choice. We talked about the other issues impacting 40 and like the affordability crisis. I think Vice President harris is right. This is a Trump Abortion Ban i we need to make him admit. Ron desantis has events all over this. Theres one party restricting abortion i trying to protect her. When it came to getting the Ballot Initiative approved for november, record all of us. It is important that the 60 threshold a lot. Know that it is a hurdle to overcome but 40 and know how to do this. We did this in 2018 when we restored the right to vote for formerly convicted felons. We did this for 15 minimum wage. We can obtain the threshold, we just have to work very hard to do it and make sure we talk to all voters across the political spectrum because all voters do care about this issue. Leader driskell, want to talk but the politics of this. I think be introducing to watch how floridians respond. Do you sense or fear potentially a split in the vote there where the votes might go towards trump for president but then for the band or some variation of that. How are you how should the case be made to floridians in linking the reason we are here is because this guy did it. This is trumps ban, on the abortions, which is why we are having this conversation right now . That is exactly the argument, michael. We need to continue to remind people that trump did this. He took credit for this. He paved the way for this six week band. In florida come the other reason love your question is a lot of folks think that florida is a foregone conclusion we are a red state. I disagree with that. The energy in the ground is that we are a Red Performing State but the energy in the ground is very different now. People are very tired of the extremism. They are tired of book bans. They are tired of to cody and abortion bans. The tired of politicians who just want to get in the way and make decisions for them. Parents want to make their own decisions for their kids. I think this opens up and a way to talk about issues they care about and i dont think that florida is out of play. Florida is in play. President biden continues to say that continues to make visits to florida, as does the Vice President. We will see what happens this fall. I think florida voters will make their voices heard. Every floridian deserves the opportunity to be healthy, prosperous, and safe. Thank you so much for being with us. Melissa murray. Thank you. Thank you for having me. An Early Morning tax. I love that. Do not go anywhere. We have another hour ahead of us with Susanne Craig and katie phang. That is all coming up in the next hour of the weekend. From your pits to your sfx deoderant being sprayed secret whole body deodorant. Theres news, and theres good news. Like thousands of patients receiving free life changing surgeries, from volunteer doctors and nurses on hospital ships. All made possible by donations. We love good news. Try killing bugs the worryfree way. 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