Our house. I saw a lot of police cars. That woman was a fighter. She would never leave her daughters. She would never do it. Michelle around the home, she was very proud about that, she was able to ends meet good they are wonderful girls, they were amazing. S, the end came a much too soon. Shes madison motionless, and im concerned. There appeared to be a body hanging from the banister. At first look, it appeared to be a suicide. But then they looked closer. There appeared to be a struggle, they were telling me, there is something wrong here. Expected someone want michelle that . A bond forged in blood. Could you cry . I. We called the conversation. Betrayed by blood. What are you hoping for . Some conversation between the two of of them about the death. We looked at video surveillance, and he goes to my dont like what i am saying. Your theorizing the darkest scenario . Yes i am. Evil. Hello, and welcome to dateline. Michelle and lloyd were High School Sweethearts who tied the knot three years later. But michelle and lloyd remained devoted to their girls, then michelle was found dead in her home. At first Police Suspected suicide, but soon the case tooko a chilling turn. At the heart of this mystery was a betrayal too twisted to be true. Except that it is. Here is Dennis Murphy, with the ultimatum. The long road to prima ballerina, the dreams of thunderous bravos, the cascade of roses, begins with the youngest of dancers in a school of two dude 10yearolds. It is very disciplined. An athletic discipline of concentration and body control, Learning Poise under pressure. It took a lot, especially when we were young, to stick with it, but it was worth it a Ballet Academy in Upstate New York, is where nina got to know her friend, terry neurauter. I got to know carrie when she was eight, she was very sweet, very bubbly personality. Both of them were girly girls, but wanted to grow up to be like their dads. Our debts were both engineers, so we were both going to become engineers. Professional ballerinas on the side. Everyone could see that kerrys was very close to her dad, Lloyd Neurauter. Not only would he drive his ld order to class, he would stay and help out. Y he was the only father there that was bringing the kids in the morning at that time. Ninas mom, cynthia would see him on those saturdays, but rarely his wife. He would always sort of bring them there and brush in their hair out and put these funds together. Yes, and he definitely enjoyed the admiration of the jo other mothers around him. As their daughters rehearsed for the annual nutcracker, cynthia and another friend, rose, became friendly with lloyd. Lloyd was, i would say, eccentric. Always the center of attention. Of course, we eventually asked about his wife, and he said that saturdays were her only days off. Lloyds wife, michele, had a full plate of her own. She had a Masters Degree in literature, but chose to be a fulltime mob, homeschooling their kids, and taking an active role in charity work. Here she is, making Thanksgiving Dinner for the needy at their local church. It would be really odd to have thanksgiving at home, just us, and not be here. Thanksgiving is celebrating with the community, giving back. Michele had met lloyd in high school. Her mom, jeannie, remember a teenage boy, who was smitten from the first date. I think she thought he was intelligent and she could have intelligent conversations with him. So, maybe a peg above the kids at school in her circle . Yes. Yes. The High School Sweethearts married when michele was just 20. They were letter single into a farmhouse and have three girls,a carrie, the middle child. Micheles younger sister also named carrie, admired her so much. She always wanted the best for her girls. She was always very supportive, because, of course, b when i had children i asked her all my questions and looked up to her. I always looked up to her. Though they lived coasts apart, micheles sister and her husband were close to their nieces. The oldest one really bonded with kevin, and karrie and i rr very much bonded. But as with so many people, the nitrite her family ran into lean times, diminished prospects, during the great recession. Lloyd moved out of state to find work about an engineer. What happened is lloyd it was a tough time in courtney, new york. And he took a job in new jersey. Michele stayed behind, with the girls come out in the country , but the separation put a strain on the marriage, ra and in time, michele and lloyd divorced. She was always positive, going to make the most of everything, and then one day Out Of The Blue she called me and said, we are divorced. Okay. It was very random. After the divorce, michele sold the farm and the kids split up. The oldest wants to live with their dad in new jersey, carry on the youngest Daughter State with mom in a new house. But the divorce was hard on everyone. Karrie and her mom sometimes butted heads, the arguments could get heated. She was living with her mother, and finishing high school, but it got more and more strained as the years as she approached her senior year. By late august, 2017, karrie, the one time ballerina, had left home and was a sophomore at rit in rochester. Her younger sister still lived with her mom. It seemed like a typical monday afternoon,al a Family Friend ca by the house to pick up the youngest for swim practice. But something looked very wrong. He g called 911. She is motionless and im concerned. The friend said he called Glimpse A Shadowy Senior female figure on the stairway. She is standing there, not moving. It is kind of dark in there. Something very dark had happened in that house, and when the curtain was pulled back it would reveal a monstrous story, like something out of a greek tragedy, with ank ending no one could fathom. This is absolutely ghoulish. Yeah. Coming up. There appeared to be a body hanging inside the door about 1520 feet, hanging from the banister. This is, as they say, a house known to Law Enforcement. And something was missing. No 14yearold was discovered. Where is this child . That is one of the concerns. When dateline continues. Nue new Herbal Essences sulfate free. Packed with pure aloe and camellia flower oil your hair will love. And none of the things it wont. Hair that feels deeply nourished, soft and lightweight. New Herbal Essences. Sometimes your work shirt needs to be for more than just work. Like when it needs to be a big, soft shoulder to cry on. Which is why downy does more to make clothes softer, fresher, and better. Downy. Breathe life into your laundry. Some people just know theres a better way to do things. Like bundling your home and Auto Insurance with allstate. Yeah, she knows. And some people. Dont. Like. Come on. Yikes ughh. No. You know, theres a better way. Save time and money by bundling your home and auto with allstate. Youre in good hands with allstate. I dont want you to move. And auto with allstate. Im gonna miss you so much. You realize well have Internet Waiting for us at the new place, right . Oh, we know. We just like making a scene. Transferring your services has never been easier. Get connected on the day of your move with the xfinity app. Can i sleep over at your new place . Can katie sleep over tonight . Sure, honey this generation is so dramatic move with xfinity. Dennis murphy voiceover august 28, 2017, Police Officers responded to the home of divorced mom Michele Neurauter. August 20th, 2017, Police Officers responded to the home of divorced mom, michele. A friend of hers and called 911 to report a disturbing site. There appeared to be a body, hanging inside the door about 15, 20 feet, hanging from the banister. Police chief, jeff spaulding, said his officers got in and found the body. A woman with a rope tied around her neck. It was michele. Apparently a suicide . From first look at appeared a suicide. No reason to think not . No. Officer searched the home. They found no suicide note. Daughter, karrie was away at college. But the youngest who lived with michele was nowhere to be found. No 14yearold was discovered. Where is this child . That was one of the concerns. It turns out the youngest was with Karrie At School In Rochester 100 miles away. Police learned that when karrie called them herself when a friend gave her the shocking news. We are looking into it. Can you give me any insight into what might have happened . I dont know. I decided to go home. Karrie told police she had stopped by the house that night. When i got there we were freaking out. In karries words, they had a fight, her mom went yelling and screaming. Karrie told investigators she stormed out of the house, taking her teenage sister with her. Not all that unusual. Police learned that raised voices in that household were sent. A bad divorce, with kids caught in the middle. This is, as they say, a house known to Law Enforcement . Yes. Over the years, there have been what . 911 call to the location . Probably in the course of three years, a dozen, a little over a dozen years. Even with that fragmented history, mother and daughter inside the house, something is going on, it does maybe give you an explanation of why it is death by suicide . Exactly. Investigators also got in touch with micheles ex husband, lloyd, who lived in new jersey. He was rushing to Upstate New York to be with his daughters. The last time i spoke with her, i couldnt even say. Lloyd told the detective, by phone, he wasnt completely surprised to hear the news. He said that, despite her cheery demeanor, michele had actually contemplated suicide in the past. From before we were married, she made she made Suicide Plans with high school friends, and there was something that alarmed me way back then. Police continue to process the scene. While micheles body was taken to the medical examiner for autopsy. What is she finding . The words again, consistent with suicide, are used. In a round of phone calls, micheles sister out in california got the news about the suicide. When you first heard that, didnt make sense in any kind of way to you . Maybe she had gotten in a better place . I mean, i knew that she had been fighting, with the girls. I i really thought like, maybe she had a bad moment. Then she had to relay the awful news to their boy. They said michele died. And i said, no she didnt. I said, no, she didnt, that they like, dont say that. I said, dont tell me, dont say that. The friends, back in corning, could hardly take it in. Michele, gone, and by her home own hand. My mom told me, she didnt want me to see it online or social media before i heard it from her. And you went to see her . I did. I went home. It was so shocking. s funeral arrangements began, micheles friends were haunted by a question made just months before her death. She said, well, promise me that if anything ever happens to me that you will look out for my daughters. And then i reassured her, naovely perhaps, that she was going to live a long life, but she was pretty persistent, and so i said, okay. And we left it like that. Sorry, she got me with that story. But even in their grief there was confusion and doubt. The french thought the michele they saw in their final days was anything but suicidal. What were her plans . Was she forwardlooking . Constantly. We were always working on what was next. That wasnt where she was in her life . I would say she was a fighter, that woman was a fighter. On saturday morning, with the rest of us were lounging around in our sweatpants, she would say, is a good day, we are going to get up, we are going to get dressed and make the best of it. Even if michele were suicidal, they could not see their friend hanging herself like that, in a way that her daughters could find her. I thought of the means that females use for suicide, and i could find around 9 of females that actually hang themselves. The most popular option, by far, is pills. But micheles mood and statistics aside, they kept coming back to that lack of a suicide note. Michele had a masters in english, as well as an mba. She was a prolific writer. Michele would have written a note of explanation. So, once there was no note, i think agree. Something is wrong. Little did they know how wrong exactly this would turn out to be. Coming up. Maybe it wasnt suicide. Apparent suicide, did that make any sense to you . No. My gut is telling me there is something wrong here. Maybe it was murder. What she had on her chin didnt seem consistent with her hanging. It looks like scratch marks. Maybe she is pulling out whatever is around her neck, trying to get it off. You can see where her bed is pushed out of place. It appeared there was a struggle. When dateline continues. Co with five ultrasharp blades and wateractivated serums for incredible glide. I feel the difference with every stroke. Feel the power of smooth. [sneezes] can a can of lysol take care of my snotty sofa . Cando Mildewy Tiles . Cando these . Yup, its the cando can. Nothing kills more germs on more surfaces than lysol disinfectant spray. psst psst ahhh with flonase, allergies dont have to be scary. Spraying Flonase Daily gives you long lasting nondrowsy relief. Flonase all good. Also, try our Allergy Headache and nighttime pills. To 50 years with my best friend. [sfx gasp] [sfx spilling sound] nooo. Aya. Quick, the quicker picker upper bounty absorbs spills like a sponge. And is 2x more absorbent so you can use less. Bounty, the quicker picker upper. And is 2x more absorbent so you can use less. Dennis murphy voiceover police were investigating the Hanging Death of Michele Neurauter as a possible suicide, but they still needed to know more about her final weeks police were investigating the Hanging Death of Michele Neurauter as a possible suicide, but they still needed to know more about her final weeks and days. Hey, how are you. Good, just cautious about how i approach a car. The deceased exhusband, lloyd, who settled in new jersey, had rushed to Upstate New York, after micheles body was found. Now, sitting in a police car, he seemed eager to talk. How long has michele lived at the residence . About five years. Okay. She bought that after we divorced. You told him about his early relationship with michele. We went to school together, we did everything together. So, i never thought like that, like oh, under some circumstance i will just walk away. What did you get divorced . We divorced august, 2012. So, actually that is help me he explained that while the divorce has been finalized years earlier, their custody issues were far from settled. They were still fighting over their youngest daughter. She wanted to live with me, a tantrum. Lloyd suggested his exwife was unstable, an emotional wreck. Michele was screaming and furious. I know of that, from passive behaviors that there was an occasion where michele is having a tantrum, that she would open the door and scream things down the stairs and then slam her bedroom door and did that so many times she actually broke the door frame. From doing that. She was just completely out of control. But lloyd admitted his information was secondhand. He had heard the stories from his children. I dont even know if she was seeing anybody, well she was doing things with. She really pushed me out of her life. Lloyd spoke with police for over an hour. As the interview ended, he had a question. When could the kids retrieve their stuff. Is there any idea when the kids could get into the house to look at their stuff . If it were a simple suicide, the investigation wouldnt take long. But new york state investigator, eric hurd, who was among the first on the scene of a thought, not so fast. My gut was telling me, there is something wrong here. It wasnt just cop intuition, there was physical evidence, in his experience, inconsistent with a suicide. Starting with the position of the thin nylon rope on micheles body. On her chin, it did not seem consistent with a hanging. He noticed blooms on micheles had too. On her face you can see scratch marks, like maybe she is pulling out whatever is around her neck, trying to get it off. And then there was micheles friend, rose, she rushed up to the scene with something urgent to say. Apparent suicide, does that make any sense to you . No. She told me, i know she is friends with me, she would never do this to herself. I was with her just the other night, we were having a great done, she would never do this. It is and evidence, it is a peace. It is not evidence at that point. When police formally interviewed the friends they got a different picture of michele and their divorce. They said lloyd was the crazy one, relentless with badgering his exwife with driedup custody fights. It was at their house and i think lloyd had just served a petition for Child Custody of the younger child. And she was frustrated, her life was looking very positive, and then this came up again. Objective appraisal, or france taking sides. Either way, they insisted michele wasnt a frazzled, out ofcontrol single mom. She was making the best of a bad situation. And dealing with an x, who demeaned her for years. Basically everything she did was criticized. He made her feel she was really ugly. He made her feel that she couldnt make any right decisions, she was a lousy mother. That she couldnt do anything right. So, homicide versus suicide. On the one hand, the nasty divorce may have given Michele Plenty of reasons to be depressed and want her way out. But it was a video of micheles bedroom that caused director heard to think otherwise. You can see where her bed was pushed out of place. He spent hours poring over the pictures. Looking at the wall, kind of zooming in, you can see things that are maybe not visible didnt jump out at you. Did jump out at first, but it looks like we see something that looks like what on the wall, so that was concerning to Blood On The Wall and a bed out of lace. To heard it pointed to only one scenario. It appeared that there was a struggle. He believed michele had been attacked. The suicide scene staged. At the house there was no sign of forced entry, nothing taken. And investigators theorized that a random intruder wouldnt bother arranging such an elaborate seen. An unknown intruder, when our man doesnt figure into it . No, never thought that. No, they thought. Someone close to michele had to be responsible. So, what we do now is the question . Yes. It was time to go looking for suspects. Investigators start with the obvious suspect, micheles exhusband, lloyd, and he had an alibi. Coming up. He said he had been to rochester to help his daughter move into college, spent the night in the hotel, stayed in the hotel all night long. I think i have every receipt for the last seven days. Michele likes to say things too. Could the mistry be solved from Beyond The Grave . I started finding screenshots and text, Daughter Document it every thing. What was the narrative picture that came together for you . That she was constantly abused, emotionally abused, when dateline continues. Lin so rich. So indulgent. Its new olay body wash. Silky indulgent moisture. 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I am richard lee with a news update. The second week of former resident, donald trump Busty Hush Money Trail wrapped up testimony from three witnesses, including trents executive assistant. Court proceedings will resume tuesday. And President Joe Biden and his Administration Spent the week rolling out new rules that would allow airlines and passengers for flight distraught disruptions. And reinstatement neutrality. And in an interview with howard stern, biden said he would be happy to debate trump. Welcome back to dateline, i am andrea canning. What happened to Michele Neurauter. Detectives spotted signs of a struggling micheles bedroom. Now, investigators suspected her death had been staged to look like a suicide. They were eager to have another chat with micheles ex husband, lloyd. Meanwhile, a distraught Family Member was about to get a startling view into micheles final years. Here again is Dennis Murphy, with the ultimatum. Michele neurauters mother was still dealing with the loss of her elder child. And on top of that, grief was a longstanding sorrow. Estrangement. Michele had stopped talking to her mom years before. I mr. , i love her, i did know what was going on, because we had never had a right. If we had a fight and hung up on each other, you know, we would get over it, but we did not have that fight. He needed know exactly what had gone on michele and lloyds marriage, but she knew she never liked him. We are like, okay, she can do better than this, what does she see in him . Looking back, what makes you say that . He was arrogant from the beginning. He was always arrogant, micheles sister agreed. He was like i am going to put you in your place. Did you talk about how things were with her in lloyd. That is a no go topic. Micheles family says lloyds My Way Or The Highway attitude extended to the way he disciplined children. The doting ballet. Wanted his girls to be a little too on point. He kind of raised his kids with a Military Bearing . Yes. He would snap his fingers and they would line up and stand there like little soldiers. You would make them deal with their nose to the wall, hands behind their head like they were being executed. Like sorry . For a minor Household Infection . For nothing sometimes. He would just be mad at them. After micheles death, jeannie flew out to the east coast to be with her granddaughters. That is when she finally learned just how bad things had become for michele. It was all there and her daughters journals at boxes court papers. I started finding Court Documents and i started finding screenshots of text. My Daughter Documented everything. To death. What was the narrative picture that had come together for you of what had happened in her life . That she was just constantly abused, emotionally abused. By her husband, lloyd . Yes. You believe he ganged up the children against her . Yes. Micheles mother read how the unhappy marriage turned into an unhappy divorce. He was taking her to court over and over and over. The acrimony between lloyd and michele had been well known to micheles friends for years. They have seen it up close. If her death was a murder, the history mode of that marriage and divorce told them exactly what happened. When asked at the scene what i thought, my answer was i think he did it. The husband . Absolutely. No problems . The very same lloyd who had calmly and clearly volunteered so much information to investigators. She was just completely out of control. Demeanor . What are you hearing about . He was very cooperative. Would you like me to move up a little . You are fine. Police had reason to believe michele died sometime after midnight, saturday, going into sunday. So, the question, where was lloyd . The way you came up to go to rochester. He told police he had driven up from new jersey to rochester to help carry move into her college apartment. She couldnt fit everything in the car, so i had to in princeton that i had to bring. So, when i arrived on saturday, i went to the apartment and i unloaded her white car. Yeah. Karries apartment. That he said he spent a night in a nearby hotel. Yes. By yourself . Yes. He said he had been to rochester to help his daughter move into college, spent the night in the hotel, stated the hotel all night long. Lloyds that he drove home the next day and only returned to the courted area after micheles body had been found. He could account for all of his movements. I think i have every receipt from the last seven days. Now they needed to put lloyds timeline under a microscope. Police pulled his Phone Records and guess what . His cell never left the hotel that night. So far, so good. And the story told by the phone, meant he couldnt be an hour and half south in court in, so police had to consider others and micheles inner circle, and that included the last known person to have seen michele alive. It was someone who had admitted in a phone call to police to fighting with michele that very night. Her middle daughter, karrie. When i got there, my mom started freaking out. And she was yelling, and and then she got quiet. I know you are upset, but if you could take a breath for me, so that i can i can understand what you are saying a little better. Yeah. Yeah, okay i am sorry. Sure, karrie sounded distraught, but the officer who first took down her account of that night didnt like what he was hearing. He said, right away something is not right. What was he referring to . Terry, specifically, was not telling the truth about what happened that night. Coming up. You can see that she is at the house for like two hours. A lot longer than we anticipated her to be there. What was karrie hiding . The younger sister says i get woken and it sounds like somebody is in the house attacking my mom and her sister comes in the house and tells her, we have got to leave. Mom is upset, she is really mad. When dateline continues. Ont oh. Stuffed up again . So congested you need sinex saline from vicks. Just sinex, breathe, ahhhh what is wow sinex. Breathe. Ahhhhhh Dennis Murphy voiceover heres a truism, cops dont like to be lied to, especially cops investigating an unsolved death heres a truism. Cops dont like to be light to. Especially cops investigating an unsolved death, like that of mom, Michele Neurauter. Especially if they are suspicious that the victims daughter is the one doing the lighting in a statement to investigators, karrie, the child, admitted that she had arrived at her mothers house, shortly before her death. She initially told us that she got there so she led us to believe this is a 18 or 20 minutes that her moms house. The thing was her cell Phone Records that otherwise. You can see she is at the house for 2 hours. Longer than we anticipated her to be there. Was karrie hiding something after that argument . Those who knew her best never considered karrie to be anything but honest. Family friend, rose, was one of the first people to speak with karrie after michele was found. We set on the phone together for about a half an hour and just cry. And nina said there was no way her smart and kindhearted friend would have played any kind of role in a murder. I could never picture her being violent. But police had a different technique, they remembered there being turmoil and micheles house. All those cars years earlier , had charting finally boiled over . And there was an year witness, of sorts. Karries kid sister, the 14 yearold, had been sleeping down there is. She told the detective she remembers hearing screams. The younger sister says i get woken, it sounds like somebody is in the house attacking my mom. Use that word . Yes, she did. And her sister tells her, you have got to leave, mom is upset, shes really mad. Karries story was way out of line. As hard as it was to wrap their heads around it, detectives were coming to believe that the College Students daughter may have murdered her own mother. Unthinkable. This is her mother, i just keep coming back, this is her mother. Her own mother. That to me was the most chilling part of this whole thing. But if it were true, the young woman was too petite, they thought, to have pulled it off alone. There was no way karrie could have physically carried out the act. If it was to be homicide, she would have needed some help. But from whom . They naturally looked to those closest to carry, and who is closer than her dad, lloyd . Going back to those Ballet School days. The cops also knew that lloyd had been in the area that weekend, helping carry move into her college apartment. The more detail you can tell us about things. But what about his apparently ironclad alibi, backed up by his cell Phone Records . That he never left his hotel that night . From 11 00 to 7 00 you are in the hotel . Yes. Investigator heard sent a colleague to spool through the Security Camera footage. He goes, i dont like what i am seeing. It looks like the data and carry left together about 10 00 that night. What was that . The data and the daughter together . Leaving . And when they fast forwarded the Hotel Security video, there was Lloyd Neurauter seen again, walking through the parking lot at 6 30 a. M. , more than eight hours later. Are you theorizing the darkest scenario, that dad and daughter are in on this thing together . Yes we are. That is a monstrous theory. Yes it is. Authorities held their cards close to the best. County district attorney, brooks baker, was consulting, as investigator scott search warrants, so they could tap father and daughters cell phones. Where are you now, sweetie . Im still back at the dennys. What are you hoping for . We are hoping for some kind of conversation of from the two of them about that, about money. Hi. Hi, sweetie, im sorry i didnt get your call right away. We didnt get much. Investigators started to ratchet up the pressure,. Is this carry neurauter. Yes, this is me. We had an Investigator Call from nypd to talk to gary, and the hope is that that would get a conversation going between lloyd and his daughter. I dont know if you had time to meet up with me, what your plans were. Yeah. Would you be able to talk on monday . Okay. With her wire tickled, what karrie cultivate to her father with the latest. Hi, sweetie. Hey, so i just got off the phone with officer whatever from the Corning Police department. He called, hes like oh, you know, i just like to be faceto face. You know, id id like you to not do that if you can avoid it. Tell them, im sorry ive got i got a counseling appointment, back in new jersey tonight. Ive got to get to my counseling appointment. And tell them, this has been really hard on me. Yeah. Could you cry . I might. We caught the lighting, precision, which is when all of our hackles went up. He is telling his daughter to lie. Like to investigators, and by the way, can you cry . You cry and say, im sorry, i have to go. God, it would be nice if it was just over. That would be the dream. Well, thats really all i got to suggest right now. By now, investigators had a Working Theory of the crime. That it was probably not the data helping the daughter, but the reverse. That dad, they theorized, was the mastermind. But authorities lacked hard proof of anything. They needed more. After two more months of tapping the phones, they decided showtime had arrived. They would simultaneously appear unannounced to interview both terry and lloyd, in separate locations, and confront them directly. In late january, 2018, like commandos synchronizing their watches, they swooped down. Nice to meet you. In new jersey, two of ai agents appear that lloyds workplace. He agreed to meet with them in a conference room. The agents gave him an update in the case. The medical examiner has determined it to be a homicide, not a suicide. Oh my god. And in conjunction with that , i want to ask you did karrie have something to do with her death . No. I just dont think karrie has it in her. To kill another person. Can you think of something, whether it was things get out of hand, she gets in a fight, its a selfdefense thing. I mean, can you see that happening . With karrie . Its hard to imagine. But can i picture it . I cant. And instead of jumping and saying, no. This is my daughter, she would do Something Like that. But can i picture it . It is the longest pause in the entire time we talked. I cant. So, he is not pop up, Lion Protecting his cubbies here. No, hes sort of how do i toss her under the bus here. Lloyd had to realize the walls were closing in. Still, the interview ended with handshakes. Well, we appreciate you sitting down with us and interrupting your day and everything, so well, my goal is to help. The agents allowed lloyds to leave after his very that day at the office. Then they tailed him and listened and as he phoned his daughter. How are you . Not great. Im not great, either. 250 miles away, in syracuse, new york, daughter, karrie, had also been confronted by police. And she too had had a very bad day. What did she tell her inquisitors . Coming up. After one staged suicide, with this would be real . There he is out on a ledge. Five stories down. Hes going to jump, he has got his phone and he wants to talk to his daughter. When dateline continues. 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So i can finally throw that party. And invite shannon barnes. Dream do come true. Xfinity gives you reliable wifi with walltowall coverage on all your devices, even when everyone is online. Maybe well even get married one day. I wonder what i will be doing . Probably still living here with mom and dad. Fast reliable speeds right where you need them. Thats walltowall wifi with xfinity. Dennis murphy voiceover karrie neurauter, who had always been on script about the night her mother died, said theyd had a fight, shed left, carry neurauter, who had always been on script the night their mother had died said she left. Can you tell us what you observed, what you remember . Karrie quickly caved and admitted that she lied. Her that had been with her. My dad was there. Wait thats a lie, im sorry. I went to the house and i like to that. There was more. My dad went upstairs into my minds room and she was like, what are you doing . Like why are you here . And so she was yelling. And she was like, why . Why . Then it started to tumble out, the nightmare story. She told investigators, her dad , drowned in alimony and Child Support payments had given her an ultimatum, him, or her mom. It was something along the lines of, you know, hes out of money, he cant pay rent. He cant pay for stuff. Basically, he was going to kill himself. Or there was this way to make it so he wouldnt kill himself. Which was telling my mom. Why, at the crossroads, did she decides to help him . She says, she saw no other alternative. When you guys first discussed it was supposed to look like a suicide . The first time he told me about this. That she told investigators what her father did. He said he was going to put a towel in her mouth so she to be quiet. And then put the rope around her neck and strangle her. Karries job was to disable any Security Devices to distract her younger sister, sleep downstairs, totally unaware of what was going on. She woke up so i had to take her out i was freaking out i didnt know what was going on, and im like oh my god. No, we have the framework of the story together now. I mean, what a bombshell. What are you thinking when you are listening to this thing . We were shellshocked. At last, the authorities had enough to arrest lloyd. He had left, unnerved by his chat with the fbi and new Jersey State Police had tailed him, as he drove to the top of the fivestory parking garage, got out of his car and sat on a ledge. Apparently, suicide seemed a better option than prison. And there he is out on the ledge. The ledge . Five stories down, threatening to kill himself. So hes going to be a jumper . He is going to jump. He has his phone and wants to talk to his daughter. After a 90 minute negotiation, a Homicide Detective tackled lloyd and put him under arrest. Back in new york, authorities read his daughter, karrie, her rights too. Murder charges for both. Micheles mom across the country was in disbelief. I said, no, not karrie, not karrie, please not carry. The friends in corn and couldnt believe it either. The little ballerina they watched grow up, now charged with murder. That is the unbelievable part. We love this child. As time has passed, micheles friends are starting to learn of a familys brainwashing , of a controlling father that poisoned his daughters minds with the drip, drip of a phony story that went on for years. That their mother was no good, crazy, that they would all be better off without her out of the picture. A fathers manipulation that would go all the way back to ballet class days and probably earlier. What flashed back to me was the timeline i saw of a 7year old, karrie, standing front and center, shaking and i personally believe it was this accumulation of control. I felt that she had been brainwashed. And looking back, micheles mom was now certain it was lloyd who was behind. I believe he started alienating her, manipulating her mind. Putting a false narrative in her head of who she was and her people are. I refer to him as jim jones. It is cult leader ask what he did to her and her sisters. It appeared that father and daughter would be tried together. Both entered pleas of not guilty. But as the case moved forward, karrie alone in her cell, removed from her father , it was as though the spell was broken. Karrie flipped, and decided to testify against her father. At what point did your dad approach you with this plan . Now she gave a second, even more detailed confession, and prepared to be the stark witness at her fathers murder trial, and a new detail. She had helped remove her dead mothers body. We dragged her around the corner and he tied the rope to the one prong of the banister and lifted her up and put her both over the side. Im sorry. Thats okay. But her dads trial never happened. Lab results came back, showing the exhusbands dna was all over micheles bed boards in that house he claims never to have been inside. In october of 2018, Lloyd Neurauter pleaded guilty to murder. I was stunned. He gave it up. He told us exactly what happened. Lloyd give a full statement, owning up to being the Master Manipulator that friends and family said they witnessed all along. You described the process, by which he would abuse michele in front of his girls, belittle her, and convince her that he is a narcissist. The world of our revolves around him, the password was all my girls love me. That is how he operated. Ultimately that power let karrie to say yes. Dad says it is so. If that says it is so, it must be so. Lloyd was sentenced to life without parole. District attorney baker allowed karrie to plead to a lesser charge of manslaughter. She was sentenced to 13 years. The da says the daughter is a victim too. He wants to be sympathetic, because she is a some pathetic character. She deserves sympathy for where she was, but she is still guilty of murder and that is the thing, justice has to happen. And friend, cynthia, cant shake that emotional conversation she had with michele, just before she died. The one, where she promised to take care of her daughters. If anything happens to me . Yeah. That quebec very strong for me. Cynthia kept that promise, Visiting Karrie in jail and trying to help a bewildered young woman find her way through this. She is very remorseful, she misses her mother. Very much, and she has said that her mother would know what to do right now. She would know how to help me. Still grieving over the death of her daughter, micheles mom is now facing another kind of. Coming to terms with this unthinkable crime and the granddaughter who said yes to a fathers deadly ultimatum. She is a human being. She is still a child. She might be considered an adult, but i consider her a child. She killed your daughter. She killed my daughter. She is a victim. I struggle with this. I struggle. I asked michele, i say, michele, what you want me to do . What do i do with this child of yours . And i honestly believe that my daughter would want her to be accepting Response Ability for what she did, and she is. I dont know if i forgive her. But i understand her. That is all for this edition of dateline. I am andrea canning, thank you for watching. Good morning, and will come to this saturday edition of