Transcripts For MSNBCW Katy 20240704

Good to be with you. Im katy tur. Fani willis can stay on the trump interference case but if she does Special Prosecutor Nationen Wade has to go. Were waiting on her decision. While this is a big win for the Fulton County d. A. s office, the judges decision was scarring. Andrew weissmann has more on what stood out to him and what he says continues to jeopardize that case. It is not just georgia. There was another seemingly small but actually pretty significant ruling in florida by judge cannon. She rejected one of trumps motions to dismiss the classified documents case against him, saying his argument of constitutional lateness is premature. Weissmann argues it might have been better for Special Counsel jack smith if she threw out the case entirely. What about the hush money case in manhattan . The d. A. Braggs office says it is turning over even more documents to trumps legal team now giving them 100,000 pages and counting of new evidence. What that means for the trial, which was supposed to start in just over a week. Joining us now, msnbc Legal Correspondent lisa rubin, as promised, former fbi General Counsel and Robert Mueller Special Counsel investigate, into russian interference, in the 2016 campaign election, Andrew Weissmann and former Deputy District Attorney and msnbc legal analyst melissa redman. Everybody, welcome. Melissa, starting with you, Fulton County is your specialty. What did you think of todays decision . It was interesting to me, i think we were, at least i was anticipating the judge to make a decision, which standard applied, whether it be actual conflict of interest, or an appearance of impropriety, and what he instead found, analyzing both, so i think that really limits the defendants ability to appeal his denial of that motion for qualification, finding there was no conflict of interest, and even with the appearance of impropriety, it does not arrive to one that would warrant disqualification, as opposed to remedy. So i think because he covered both bases in his order, it kind of makes it very tight in that it is likely to withstand an appeal, if one is granted. If the court of appeals were inclined to even accept an immediate review. He mentions one of the remedies of all of the behavior, which is not being condoned, is the voters of Fulton County, the voters elected fani willis into that position, do you have a sense how voters in Fulton County specifically feel about what they see enfold . I think it depends who you ask. I think this was an interference into her personal life and had nothing at all to do with her job and how she is performing her job and they are pleased with the way she performed her job based on her popularity. I think if youre a defense, one, i think you will be hardpressed to find a Defense Attorney that has i think it depends who you ask. I think those two feel like she should have known better, and i dont think there is much of an argument there, and hire someone you have a personal relationship with. But how does that impact the way cases are prosecuted. And looking at what should be dismissed, i think that will be the greater concern with the residents of Fulton County. So if nathan wade gets booted from this case, which he likely will, it is unlikely that the d. A. Fani willis is going to recuse herself or step down with her entire office, does it hurt the case if nathan wade is no longer on it any longer, melissa . I think it depends who you ask. I think for those in the office, you take your licks as a prosecutor. Judges will do so sometimes and lose evidence and regroup and where do we go from here. And i would imagine that would be the way the prosecutors in this case would approach it, it is like okay, this happened, it has been dealt work the judge has issued his ruling, how do we proceed from there, how do we get back on track, and get back to prosecuting the case. So andrews we wema and that was in the appearance of a conflict in part of the case. She might appeal that saying that shouldnt even apply to prosecutors. That was their position. So thats a legal issue. The reason i think that this is a of course, it is a win in the sense that she wasnt completely disqualified, but the language here is so scathing, with respect to wade, and to her, remember there is no finding here that the judge said i found either of them credible. They both testified. He had very harsh words. Particularly harsh words with respect to wade, and on page nine, gave a litany of places the defense could raise these issues, ethics issues, ethics complaints against both of them, so i think this is something that were you know, this is going to linger, were going to hear more of this, because this is what Defense Lawyers are charged with doing. And so even if theres a choice that fani willis makes to have wade step down, and she remains, i think she is still going to be a Lightning Rod and a liability as there case goes forward. And as proposed, there is a remedy. She could say somebody else in her office should oversee this. And she will step back. So that way, her office can proceed. They can proceed quickly. And thats one potential way to go forward. Because having done large cases, i can tell you, the language in this decision is something we are not done with. Thats what i was going to ask, lisa. I mean, i know it is unlikely she will step aside, but is there a way for her, as Andrew Weissmann said, step back . I think there is. And there are two ways she could step back. One is informally and one is formally. She could recuse herself from the case, leave the office in place, and allow the Deputy District Attorney or other Senior Leadership in her office to really steer this case going forward. Weve seen examples of that, in the federal systemer, for example where people have had to recuse, and the mueller investigation, for example, jeff, of the Southern District of new york had to recuse himself from issues relating to rudy giuliani, for example and other people dealt with some of that investigation. Thats one way she could do it. But the other way that she could do it is to remove herself entirely. Just im not each going to play a role here. As opposed to pushing up other people from her office, letting them take the lead, she could really formally draw that line. Lets talk about judge Aaileen Cannon in fort pierce, florida. Yesterday there was a full daylong hearing, Andrew Weissmann on motions to dismiss, i think three motions to dismiss that they were arguing at that courthouse yesterday, out of seven they currently. Have she has made a ruling on one of them. Explain what happened, andrew, and why it is raising a red flag for you. Well, the issue was vagueness. Whether this criminal statute was vague. One thing that is notable is there are scores and scores of people who have been charged under this statute who have served time in jail, and in fact, donald trump, when he was running for office, and when he was president , talked about how these are really important laws, and people should actually do more time for violating them. There was not a glimmer at that point of thinking that these were unconstitutionally vague. More people should be prosecuted. But of course, now he is a defendant, not the president , so now that hes making the argument that this is unconstitutionally vague. That argument has never succeeded. So one of the points that lisa has made is one of the surprising things was an allday hearing on this issue, when it is sort of a back of the hand issue, and i think by the judge denying it, but without prejudice, thats a problem. That doesnt that is not a denial. That is a, that is saying i can decide this anew later. It is without prejudice. It would be really different if she said im denying it with prejudice. So from the governments perspective, they either would have wanted a win, meaning the judge ruled in their favor, or if she had said, you know, youre wrong, im going to dismiss, at least that gives the government something to appeal. And what judge cannon i think desperately wants to avoid is allowing the government to get to the 11th circuit again, because she has been reversed not once but twice by the 11th circuit in scathing language. And that third one is one, one of the options the 11th circuit has, whether asked or not is to not send it back to her po to preside over the case. Would it, as you argue, would have been better for her to say yes, this argument works for me, this Trump Argument on constitutional vagueness, i buy it, the case is dismissed . Well, you know, im a lawyer, and im an institutionalist, i think the first thing she should have done is gone with the law, which is this is a friv house argument. Should she have just denied the defense argument. But if she was going to rule in a different way, that there is nothing to the idea that this is premature. There is nothing premature about this. So i think her ruling is sort of a legally wrong to have said that. And i think the reason she took that road was because she did not want to give the government anything to appeal. So i think the second way would have been to say im ruling for the defense, so the government could challenge it. What about ruling on these motions quickly . I mean this is im sorry, i said three, it is two motions that she considered, and i said there are seven total, right . Seven total trump motions and others from her codefendants. So that could take quite a while if she has daylong hearings for each one of them. And she is under no obligation to hold hearings at all on motions to dismiss in a criminal case. She could decide on papers or those that are particularly frivolous and back of the hand and deal with those and like judge mcafee, a wellwritten thorough opinion, 23 pages long, not excessive but well reasoned and gives a road map to his thinking. That is not what judge cannon is doing. She is taking pot shots of the Special Counsels office, and accusing them of fluctuating definitions of the section of the Espionage Act that trump says is unconstitutionally vague, and at the same time making it an open issue. She is not saying no, well, maybe. I have to think about it a little bit more. Maybe we will do it at trial. Do you sense exasperation from the Special Counsels office, andrew . You know, what i would say is i sort of put myself in how i would be thinking about it, and the answer is yes, you know, what you want when you are a prosecutor is just a fair judge. Due care if theyre tough on you, you dont care if theyre exacting and demanding, they should be, and you want to be held to a high standard, and you should want to hold yourself to a high standard. But here, where i think theres a combination of partisan and inexperience, it must be incredibly frustrating, and in part also because there is a case that is so important, not just to the nation, but also this is so important to the intelligence community, you know, if youve been in the intelligence community, as i have, the idea that documents of this sensitivity were treated this way, that is something that has to be vindicated. That is why Merrick Garland and lisa monaco went forward with the search warrant. It is our nations security. So the idea of this being delayed and something this important to our National Security is something that i think must be unbelievably frustrating as public servants. And as part of this, it is not that donald trump had them, we have seen past president s and others take them home, we saw it with President Biden certainly, when he was Vice President , but when they were asked for, he refused to give them up and actively tried to hide them from the govern. Andrew weissmannn, we have more to continue with. Still ahead a Document Dump in new york is probably delaying the hush money case against donald trump. What is going on . And not the d. A. s office, but the fdny. Plus, even republicans are realizing they have a problem when it comes to abortion. What they say theyre going to do about it now, and why they think it could be a winning issue for them. And what House Speaker johnson is saying after the white House Counsel demanded an end to the Impeachment Inquiry into President Biden. Were back in 60 seconds. Its whats going on inside of me. Its my moderate to severe ulcerative colitis. It wasnt always this calm uc went everywhere i did. 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Were watching the criminal courthouse in lower manhattan, specifically the docket, where the judge will decide whether to delay the hush money case as the Jury Selection is supposed to start a week from monday, so why d. A. Suddenly saying that a 30day delay would be okay . This is a story we broke yesterday on our air. And we were reading the motion as we were talking about it in realtime. What have we now learned about what is happening at the dachl d. A. s office and the relationship with the fdny . So yesterday, the d. A. Filed a very short filing, saying that on the basis of some new production from the Department Of Justice, to trump, based on a subpoena that trump served on them in january, they would be fine with a 30day adjournment of the trial. And one of the things that they pointed out was although the Southern District of new york had newly produced 104,000 pages of new documents, that they saw a production on the night of march 13th, of 31,000 pages, that they believe substantially overlapped with the prior request that they had made to the Department Of Justice last year. They were confused. We asked for these things, we didnt get them, trump asks for these things, and it looks like he did get them. Why is that . And in any event, weve never seen these things before. And we are directly pertinent to the status of our central witness, Michael Cohen, they are materials that relate to Michael Cohens prosecution by that office, its okay if we have a 30day adjournment. But i want to go back to why they had to say that in the first place. Because what trump wants, on the basis of the production of these documents, and some other things, is not just an adjournment. He says if an adjournment is necessary, give me 90 days but really what i want is a dismissal on the indictment on the basis of what he alleges are, you know, widespread Discovery Violations by the manhattan d. A. s office. In new york, the Discovery Obligations for prosecutors have been recently amended. And they are very fullsome and burdensome and saying the d. A. s office didnt meet the obligations and withheld materials and trying to insinuate that this whole issue with the fdny materials represents an effort by the d. A. s office to withhold stuff from them. My head is about to explode. This is very confusing. Andrew, why dont you jump in . I have a question but it sounds like you have an interjection. Ill let you go first. Sure. So just to go back to what we were talking about it, looks like nathan wade has submitted his Resignation Letter in the georgia case, and it has been accepted by fani willis. That has now been posted online. So that we now, you know, that was the choice, was one or the other. It looks like then fani willis was not going to appeal to try to avoid that choice. And that means that she and her office would be able to stay on the case. And so thats Just A Little Bit of Breaking News before we go back to yet another issue. Im the one that is supposed to drop the Breaking News. You totally stole my job today, buddy. I know you were about to say it in my ear. You will never have me on. No, thank you. We have it confirmed. We are getting the moment in just a moment from the d. A. s office, Blayne Alexander is working on that for us. Once we get that letter, we will continue that on air. Sorry about that. Let me dont worry. Let me go back to the d. A. Stuff here, in manhattan, because what lisa rubin just tried to explain to me is very confusing. Is the trump saying, and not because of lisa, i think it is a confusing situation, is the trump situation saying that the d. A. Hasnt cooperated, or is it the fdny, sdny hasnt cooperated . What is the deal with the d. A. And the sdny, this is the state and the federal government. Yes, so look, the state has been in a situation where they were trying to get documents over a year ago, from the federal government, and they got blindsided, and so that is the reason for the delay, is this huge Document Dump. Much of it may be irrelevant. But not all of it is irrelevant. And so the d. A. Is, in fairness, is saying that the defense is entitled to some time to look over this new material, and frankly, the d. A. Is probably willing to look, wanting to look over this new material as well. They also, as lisa pointed out, the defense has a motion that is more typical, which is just, oh, we didnt get all of the discovery that we should have gotten, whether it was from the feds or the state. I suspect thats not going to go anywhere. But this is one where the main issue, the one that is sort of really frustrating, is why, on gods green earth, did the federal government not turn over everything, over a year ago, when asked by the d. A. For presumably all Indmgs Culpator and exculpatory evidence. We still dont have an answer to that question. But it seems extremely likely that the judge will give the defense some time to prepare. 30 days, 60 days . 90 days . What do you think . I think a minimum will be 30 days, because the prosecution has agreed to 30 days. It puts the judge in an odd position to say i disagree with both parties, that you even need 30 days. So i think that seems like a minimum. I think if i were the judge, i might say im giving 30 days, and i want to hear from the defense, if they think it is more, i want to hear about specific documents and what it is about those new specific documents that you cannot sort of prepare for and adequately review within 30 days. And remember, there is some unclean hands here. Thats sort of a legal term that is used. Because the defense didnt ask for these documents until january. So if they were really so important, they could have actually acted a lot quicker. So i think i dont think that were going to see a terribly long delay here. Trying to get my scheduling down. All right. In the meantime, we got the letters from nathan the scheduling is a real issue, andrew, around these trials. Thats correct. Were coming up on the spring season. All right. D. A. Fani willis right here, nathan wade right here, im going to read you some of them. This is from nathan wade. As directed by the order today, in the state of georgia, versus donald trump i hereby offer my resignation Effective Immediately as Special Prosecutor for the Fulton County District Attorneys office. Although the court find that the defendants failed to meet their burden that the District Attorney acquired actual conflict of interest, im offering my resignation in democracy and dedication to the American Public and to move this case forward as quickly as possible. Im proud of the work our team has accomplished, in investigating, indicting, and litigating this case. Seeking justice for the people of georgia, and the united states, and being part of the effort to ensure the rule of law, and democracy are preserved has been the honor of a lifetime. Thats part of it from nathan wade. Here is the d. A. , fani willis acceptance of this resignation. I accept it, she says, Effective Immediately. I complement you for the professionalism and dignity you have shown over the last 865 days, as you have endured threats against you and your family, as well as unjustified attacks in the media, and in court, on your reputation as a lawyer. She goes on to say, others who were considered were understandably concerned for the safety of themselves and their families that would arise from their acceptance of your role. You were the one who had the courage to accept the role even though you did not seek it. Blayne alexander joins us now from atlanta. This was expected, what do you make of the point that both fan willis and nathan wade say, about their safety . Reporter you know, it is something that theyve been saying all along. I think that, one, fani willis has certainly been talking about safety for quite some time and the fact that she has referred a number of threats and something that came up in the evidentiary hearing, she had to move to a different address because of the threats against her. And it is interesting and notable she underscored this here in the acceptance of his resignation. Yes, it was expected. Certainly conventional wisdom would say, the easiest course of action would be nathan wade should go and the case move forward. But the way in which weve watched all of this unfold has certainly been very notable. I think one thing that weve been talking about is what happens with this kind of vacuum, this kind of void rather, that nathan wade leaves. Remember, set person, he has not just been on this since the indictment, he has been on since the very beginning, he is the one who led the special grand jury, within the room for those eight months of testimony, led the questioning of the many witnesses that came before the grand jury, so he does have a good deal of Institutional Knowledge about this case. And hes been the one that was most present. When you look at the pretrial hearings. So what does that mean that hes gone from this case . Will she hire somebody else to take his spot . If thats the case, and it is not necessary that she does that, mind you, because she has a lot of people on her team, but if that is the case, this underscore of just the threat, and really, people who have watched this play out for the past two and a half months would have to look at this cautiously and say, i dont know if i would necessarily want to be involved in this team. Why would i want to be part of this prosecution, given everything that those who are prosecuting have been subjected to in the past few months. Isnt it true that we were watching governor bernie saying on the stand as much . Yes, Florida Governor barnes. Yes, former govern barns. Yes, former governor barnes. I keep getting the name wrong. The last democratic governor we had in georgia. Fani willis went to him and asked do you want to join the team, and he said no, i make good money with what im doing and on top of that, he didnt want to have body guards and under constant scrutiny so that ramped up before the allegations of willis and wade and anybody would want to take caution before jumping in. Remind us what d. A. Fani willis has gone through in terms of threats. She has been getting threats from the very beginning. I know in speaking with her, this is even, as the Special Purpose Grand Jury was going on, she said she referred constant threats, she had to up security and worked with the sheriffs office, and jurisdictions in other ways to secure herself as she moves to and from the courthouse and her house itself. She has had people name her children, that has been something that is disturbing to her as well, and it is certainly in the wake of the indictment against the former president , and others, weve seen a number of threats, it is important to point out, too, it is racial in nature, she has been called the n word as she said more times that she can describe, and some of the letters she shared with the media and put in different filings have a number of different kind of vial things said about her. It is certainly she has dealt with, for quite some time in this case and likely to condition. Blayne alexander, thank you very much. Andrew weissmannn, anything to add on this . Just i think the threats are something that it is easy to sort of forget just how debilitating that is, to be able to do your job, you know, this is, you sign up for a lot, and you sign up for criticism, and take a case that is high profile, but what you dont sign up for is witnesses, jurors, friends, family members, children, loved ones, parents, all receiving attacks, including racial attacks, just for doing your job. And were not in an environment where there is loud condemnation from everyone on all sides that thats an inappropriate way to behave. It is something that is now then made normal and it is really important to remember in judging people, under that kind of searing spotlight, and that sort of, you know, searing attacks, and judging their conduct. Something that people laud, in terms of when they feel like theyre being targeted, by what they call the other side. While we were talking, i got handed a big stack of papers, this is another motion. This isnt the bragg case, lisa rubin, explain the pile of papers i just got handed. Recently, and after the deadline to submit motions about what evidence and arguments are acceptable in the case, Donald Trumps lawyers came forward and said you know the president ial Immunity Argument at the Supreme Court, shoe consider that, too. Trying to do that in every case. And he really waived that opportunity in new york. He isnt saying it applies to the underlying claim. He is saying you should make me immune from certain evidence because when i was president , when i talked about Michael Cohen, for example, in my tweet, in 2017, in 2018, things that could be considered threats against Michael Cohen, that the d. A. Wants to introduce, i was president then, those are official actions. And the d. A. Is basically, you know, slapping the back of his hand here saying, look, you already had time to raise this, the Supreme Court accepting cert in the president ial Immunity Argument is not an excuse for this, you knew about that before your deadline, and when you were talking about Michael Cohen, there is no immunity that should attach to that. Your tweets about him were solely personal, not official, this is not a substantial argument that the judge should consider, lets be done with this, and move on. Andrew, did he make the payment though to Stormy Daniels or did Michael Cohen, to go to Stormy Daniels work the payback of Michael Cohen for paying Stormy Daniels, while he was president , does he have an Immunity Argument there . Well, the allegation is that the payments were made actually from, wait for it, the oval office. But the reason that that is something that youre not, you have president ial immunity for, even if you are making this from the oval office, they have to be something that was in your official capacity. Even Donald Trumps lawyers have not said if youre doing something in your personal capacity, even if it is during the time period that youre president , that that is immune. Even in dc, they havent said that. In the case thats going up to the Supreme Court. And here, i mean, to state the obvious, and i cant believe i have to say this, but paying off a porn star is not official business of the presidency. I think we will leave it there. Andrew weissmann, thank you very much, lisa rubin, seriously, thank you, a lot of court cases, a lot of different motions, a lot of explaining and you guys do it so well, you help layman like me really understand what is going on and our viewers are made smarter for it. I know they follow this just as closely as all of us do. So thank you for all of this. Thank you for being here for the first 30 minutes of this show. Coming up, the white house calls on the gop to end the biden Impeachment Inquiry. Calling it a charade. What speaker johnson is saying in House Republicans defense. We will lead you the letter from the white House Counsel. It is interesting. First, it is a losing issue for republicans, but they think they found a way around it. What the party is now doing about abortion. And how they say they should address it. Ess it ella fashion moves fast. jen so we partner with verizon to take our operations to the next level. marquis with a custom private 5g network. ella we get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. jen thats enterprise intelligence. vo its your vision, its your verizon. Heres to Getting Better with age. Heres to beating these two every thursday. Help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need. Without the stuff you dont. So, heres to now. 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Now, i work at comcast as part of the team that created our ai highlights technology, which uses ai to detect the major plays in a sports game. Giving millions of fans, like my dad and me, new ways of catching up on their favorite sport. Democrats have been winning on abortion, in special elections in Swing Districts and on Policy Initiatives even in the reddest of states. But republicans say they have a plan to turn that around. Joining us now, nbc news capital hill correspondent julie sirkin. The question is how. The republicans, nearly two years after the Supreme Court decision, are starting to think about a plan, maybe starting to think that they should have a plan when it comes to addressing this issue, because to your point, they have lost badly in the 2022 elections and all of the initiatives in states, so at the republican retreat just this week, they were presented with new memos, telling them essentially that it is not a policy problem. It is the way they talk about it. And this isnt anything new. We reported back in september that over on the senate side, republicans there were getting new polling, new information, that hey, maybe voters arent resonating with the way that youre talk become these issues, and so it has taken them months to come around to the idea on the other side of the chamber. But the question is, will that do anything for them . Recent polls, poll after poll, were seeing that people who support restrictions to abortion are really in the minority here. You have a recent poll that came out of michigan, for example, a crucial swing state, one in which enacted their own abortion protections into law, successfully saw historic number of democrats elected downballot, they found that twothirds of the voters there support Abortion Procedures for all women, to make those decisions between their doctors only and not have politicians injected into the the conversation. So it really remains to be seen whether any of these new initiatives will have any winning measures for republicans when it comes to november. But it is safe to say that theyre talking about them at least. Already, julie tsirkin, let me ask you about, i guess whether republicans really believe that. Are they sure that theyre going to be okay on this issue . Democrats are all in on abortion. And they believe that it is going to be the number one issue, and the number one reason, other than the threats to democracy that joe biden, they believe, will win in 2016. No, republicans arent sure about this, and in fact, i had reported last week that senator Lindsey Graham, whose w. H. O. Has championed the National Abortion ban, first at 20 weeks, then at 15 weeks, how he hasnt introduced a National Abortion ban yet this year, the first time he hasnt done that since 2013. They are all over the map when it comes to this, and one of the things republicans are telling members, especially vulnerable one, front line ones, that managed to flip bidenwon districts last time away, theyre telling them hey, take your own position on this, dont let us tell you how to message on this, how to vote on, this do what you think you see fit. And thats what stefanik told them in closed door meetings. Theyre all over the map on this and not a unified position except for saying how far democrats are willing to go in late term abortion and it is not a position that democrats have taken yet, and it is to their advantage, for democrats to stay vague and simply a decision between a woman and her doctor, and politics should stay out of this. For democrats and democratic vat gists ive spoken to across states who have Put Abortion Protections into law, this is a conversation about freedom, and thats really all it is there. Julie tsirkin, thank you very much for bringing us that reporting. Really interesting. The white house is calling out the House Of Representatives in the very first letter to the newlyminted speaker michael johnson, the white House Counsel is imploring the gop to move on, saying, quote, i write to you today because it is clear the House Republican impeachment is over. That not only have they not found proof, they havent even found evidence of wrongdoing. Quote, the House Oversight and judiciary committees have heard from not one, not two, but more than 20 witnesses who have all confirmed this. And that, quote, the House Majority out to work with the president on our economy, National Security, and other important priorities on behalf of the american people, not continue to waste time on political stunts like this. Joining us now, nbc News White House correspondent monica alba. And all frankness, monica, does the white house think this will work . Reporter this is more about trying to frame this politically, at the end of what happened this week, katy, than anything else. And that is the white house that really feels that the testimony of Special Counsel rocket hur didnt produce any new information that would contribute to this Impeachment Inquiry and they want to put a sort of ex cla mag mark on that point. They want to try to bolster their argument that this is really a baseless Impeachment Inquiry, and they want to highlight the fact that a key witness has been indicted over making up information related to, this and related to the president s son hunter biden, and his business dealings. So the white House Counsel, which hasnt issued this kind of a letter before, to the House Speaker, in a fourpage memo, essentially laid that out, and this is something that im told really does reflect the president s view on all of this. He has talked about the impeachment as one of his own favorite words, describing It Asthma Larky saying he did watch a little bit of the testimony earlier this the week and again he just rejects anything here that points to wrong doing on the president s behalf, and that is what the white house is arguing here, that after the investigation and all of the witnesses have been spoken to, they havent found anything that ties potential wrong doing to the president himself. So of course the republicans and the House Speaker himself, they are responding to this letter, by saying it is not the white houses call on when an Impeachment Inquiry gets wrapped up. They want to see it come to be a end but they will continue to see where this may go, though privately many republicans, and even some publicly, katy, have conceded that they dont see enough there to really bring had to the floor for any kind of a vote on actual articles of impeachment. And since that has really fizzled, the white house is trying to seize on that political momentum, and declare this effort all but dead. Monica alba, thank you very much. Now, joining us former rnc chairman and cohost of the show, the weekend, on msnbc, michael steele. Its been a while. Good to have you. You have so busy no a days and i dont get to book you on the show as much as i used to. It is good to be with you. Happy. Do you want to talk about abortion or talk about impeachment . Lets talk about both because they do intersect actually, in a very difficult way for my party, and on abortion, this narrative that somehow lets lean into it and talk about it more, okay, so what is the message . What is the thread that youre going to weave throughout the candidates that are going to be running up and down the ballot . So theres a consistency. Are you trying to frame it in a way thats essentially around life . Okay, thats good, important, but then what about all of these other ancillary pieces, ivf, and of course, the impact that states are imposing on women. Either legally, or otherwise, that makes this conversation explode . So have you thought that through . And the answer is no. Thats why in julies reporting, you have the sort of trepidation that you see among republicans really concerned about using that to lean into. On the other side of the impeachment, the white house, good smart political stroke, you know, it is like ill have mine, are you done yet . Are you done . Because there is nothing here. Let us know. Were ready to move on. And again, it just shows us just how the house right now is being run, that it is running that they wish they were running on empty. There is nothing in the tank. Theres no fumes that they can really generate around impeachment to even justify going to the next step. So all in all, i think this is probably, this has probably been an interesting if not a good week for the biden operations, both in the white house, as well as the campaign, in how these narratives for republicans are setting themselves up for what will be a tenacious general election. Let me put up the, a, swing state poll, this one from michigan, from quinnipiac, 66 think abortion should be legal, in either all or most cases. 28 think abortion should be illegal in either most or all cases. I do think it is interesting that Lindsey Graham is not putting up his National Abortion ban bill for the first time this year. And then theres all this talk that dasha burns brought us, all of this reporting about how donald trump is asking folks at maralago who his vp should be and theyre all saying dont pick somebody who is extreme on abortion, you got to pick someone who is going to moderate this, and dont pick somebody like tim scott. It seems like, im not sure if he is listening, but it seems like the maralago diners have their finger on the pulse of something. They do. And whats important about that 66 , and whats important about National Polling on abortion we have that, too. Were going to put it up. Great. Because it is important for people to understand the number. That number is not just a reflection of democrats and progressives and those who support Abortion Access and rights. That is a lot of republicans. And i think kansas and oklahoma and other places have already shown that within and among republicans, this issue is toxic. Republican women are thinking about not just themselves, but their daughters and their granddaughters, recognizing that a right that they fought for, many of them, dont get stupid on that, there were a lot of republican women fighting for that right to access abortion care, theyre now seeing that right taken from not them so much as it is from their daughters and granddaughters, and what does that america look like for them . Particularly when you have states regulating and really taking draconian action that women are having to leave their homes and their families and their communities to access that health care. Thats a lot of women. And thats a lot of republican women. So it is a complete and i think deep misreading, katy, inside the gop, by the white men in the party do you think there is any possibility that that texas changes with this . Texas has had the most extreme abortion laws, and weve had a number of women in terms of who have been very public about the struggles that theyve had in getting an abortion, even when their child, which they wanted, was not viable, but to the point of them having to risk death or their future ability to have children, before they were able to get an abortion. Ted cruz is up for reelection. Yes. Is there any chance that something might happen in texas . It happens when the voters take out ted cruz, when they start removing the obstacles to their choice, the obstacle to their right that was a constitutional right up until last year. So i think, you know, thats how the paradigm changes. And i can share with you, and just tell you, there is internal polling, not so much in texas, but in other states, in which this issue is very vulnerable for incumbents. Keep in mind, abortion may play differently in a congressional race, in a statewide race it is toxic as well hell and thats where you see the trepidation with republicans, state senate and governorships, et cetera, because statewide, everybody gets to vote. And congressional, you can have a gerrymander Congressional District in which youre okay on that issue, it is not going to bite you the same way. But when youre moving from congress, and you want to run for the u. S. Senate, now you got to take into account the other side of the state that isnt as hot red as where youre from, and that is where youre seeing a lot of the blowback and the pressure. So in a state like texas, it plays, it can play a little bit more hot than it may be in a congressional race, and it will be up to texans to decide, do you like living in a world in which your daughter has to seek abortion care, and reproductive health, outside of your state, and oh, when she does, she could pay a penalty buy being arrested when she comes back for having done. That that is a real big question for a lot of women and mothers out there. Ted cruz wouldnt necessarily change that in the state of texas, because hes, you know, a federal elected official. Or somebody in that position. But his loss would have ramifications. Definitely. On that issue, yes. Let me ask you about, i want to take you home for a second, i want to bring to you the rnc, lots of changes at the rnc, weve been talking about them closing the Community Outreach centers which have been reaching out to minority voters, were at this particular moment, it seems like if there is any moment where black men and latino men were squishy for democrats, this is the time. And then secondly, installing Christina Bobb on Election Integrity and putting lara trump in there and watley in there, either firing or reassigning or forcing to reapply a number of staffers, what is happening at the rnc, and is it a big deal . It is a big deal if youre running as a downballot candidate. It is a big deal if youre trying to, you know, create a lane in which these issues like Election Integrity actually is not an oxymoron, but there is i that process. Yes, it is a big deal. You could see what theyve done and what they are doing. This is the decapitation of the Republican Party as i once knew it and i once led it. A lot of theef fors that we put in place, you know from covering back in 2010, led to a lot of races that we otherwise wouldnt have won. And that is because we had boots on the ground in communities. We have Community Activists representing and being the face of the party. So we could win those for the first time two black judges to the texas Supreme Court. We could win a governorship in new mexico or in new jersey. Show, the reality is, when you take all of the infrastructure and throw it away, because the guy at the top, the head of the party wants it to be all about him, youre game plan isnt to win elections. I dont know how senate and congressional candidates, theyll have to rely on the Congressional Senate committee to get through the finish line because the rnc is going to be a waste land. Trust me, those dollars and they showed what they want to do with the money when they defeated the resolution that requires rnc not to spend their money on Donald Trumps legal problems. They killed that resolution, that tells you everything about where you need to know where the money is going to go. To coach mitch mcconnell, candidate quality. It matters. Thank you very much. Coming up next, there is an election today in russia for the president. It is a real nailbiter. Dont go anywhere. This thing . Its whats going on inside of me. Its my moderate to severe ulcerative colitis. It wasnt always this calm uc went everywhere i did. Wondering when it would pop up next was stressful doing a number on my insides. But then i found out about velsipity a new oncedaily pill, not a steroid or biologic, for adults with moderate to severe uc. Velsipity can help calm the chaos of uc it quickly treats flares providing a chance for lasting steroidfree remission. 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People with graves could also get thyroid eye disease, or ted, which may need a different doctor. Find a ted Eye Specialist at isitted. Com. Folks in russia are voting today deciding who they want to be president. Vladimir putin is on the ballot for his fifth term. Joining us now from moscow, chief correspondent keir simmons. Does he have any real challengers . Reporter well, not really. There are three others running. They wont win. President putin will win and were likely to hear that sunday evening or monday, when the polls close after three days of voting. Now, we know, that not only because President Putin is popular here in russia, among many older voters. A 90yearold woman told us today in a Polling Stition that she was there to view the fall of tallin and putin was there for that. And the widow of Alexei Navalny said they should not rise the elections and there is the media to ensure that the russian people view themselves as only wanting one leader, President Putin. He will be elected for another six years on top of 24 years and at the end of that he will have ruled russia for 30 years and could stand for another six years and it is quite stunning, isnt it. And look, katy, ultimately, The Big Question here, this is not an election, it is a referendum on President Putin and the real question is what will the turnout be and weve seen an increase in online voting, President Putin voting online, in an attempt to increase the turnout and some suggests that it enables more man ip manipulation and they said that 36 turnout today. And then if that is the same every day, that is 100 which is hard to believe. Any protests today that youve seen . Yes, protests, absolutely. And that is quite stunning when you consider the punishm for protests. Weve seen dye put into ballot boxes. Weve seen arson. Weve seen a Molotov Cocktail thrown at police stations. And across this country here in moscow, in st. Petersburg. It is not a huge demonstration of opposition. There are many more people voting. We saw a stream of voters today, many of them telling us they would vote for President Putin at the Polling Station and for 12 hours from 8 00 a. M. To 8 00 p. M. To watch what was going on. So that we have seen protests. But, you know, scattering of protests across the country. An interesting thing, though, i will reflect, i told you about the 90yearold woman, when you speak to younger russias, a number of them have said this week, look, im not going to vote. Because we know what the outcome will be and i think that question, the question of apathy in russia, what it wants and what President Putin wants is an overwhelming vote, to say there is a huge vote of support for President Putin because if part this is about support for his illegal invasion of ukraine. Keir simmons, thank you very much. Joining us from moscow. And that is going to do it for me today. Happy friday, everyone. Deadline white house starts right now. Hi there, everyone. Happy friday. It is 4 00 in new york. In a Perfect World we wouldnt start this show where were going to start it today. Just to begin our broadcast