Candidate appears before the judge he appointed. The fact she is eve holding this hearing is facilitating the delay we have seen. What this hearing means for the trump trials. The only thing thats Donald Trumps arguments today merit are an eye roll and a swift denial. Then, how a Maga Delusion is officially taking hold of the rnc. People say well lets be like the democrats and vote early and ballot harvest, no, you lose your country. As republicans threaten reproductive rights across the country, a historic show of support for women in the form of a planned parenthood visit. When we talk about a clinic such as this, it is absolutely about health care and Reproductive Health care. When all in starts right now. Good evening from new york, im chris hayes. Donald trump spent the afternoon where he spends many afternoons these days in court. He attended a procedural hearing in florida. The case where prosecutors accused him of stealing highly classified Government Secrets and then willfully Obstructing Justice by hiding the stolen documents and repeatedly lying about it. Now, this case, i will admit, has receded a little bit from public memory in large part i think because of the rather glacial pace which it is moving. That is thanks to judge one Aileen Cannon plucked from obscurity by donald trump. She was just 39. Cannon was confirmed by the senate in that brief Lame Duck Session after trump lost the 2020 election. She is now the one presiding over the documents case. She has done her best to slow the speed of the case down to a crawl. It is worth keeping the details front of mind because they are really truly damning. That is why one key witness came forward to basically circumvent judge cannons Delay Tactics and share what he knows immediately with the American People ahead of novembers election. Bryan butler, a multidecade employee of maralago says he unwittingly helped trumps Codefendant Move boxes of classified documents to the plane on the same day trump was to meet with prosecutors about the documents at maralago. You noticed that he had boxes . Oh yeah, the boxes in the indictment. The white bankers boxes. Thats what i remember loading. Did you have any idea at the time there was potentially u. S. National security secrets in the boxes . No clue. I had no clue. We were just taking them out of the escalade and piling them up. We were lifting them up to the pilot. Again, trump is meeting at maralago with the fbi about the documents they say he has as butler and nada are loading said documents onto a plane. Butler recounted trumps attempt to cover up the crimes with a conversation with another at maralago. I said oh, by the way, walts coming tomorrow. Cool, thats great. Okay. It wasnt until the following day when we are out walking he said by the way, its a secret. Dont anybody walt is coming. And, why . Well, he needs me to find something out before he gets here. Oh, whats that . He needs me to, how long the Camera Footage is saved at mar alago. Im like oh, well, thats odd. Why do you need the Camera Footage . Why do you need to know how long it is saved . His response was i think they are looking for somebody that was there. I think the American People have the right to know the facts that this is not a witch hunt. That claim from the ex president , this is all a Big Witch Hunt is effectively what his lawyers organized in cart today. They tried to get the case dismissed this afternoon using some tortured legal logic including a claim that the law was unconstitutionally vague. The judge ultimately rejected that particular argument today choosing instead to basicically quick the question down the road. Sort of not really resolved. But in some senses that is beside the point. As we keep hammering day after day on this program. Trumps main goal is to run up the clock. That is really the crux of the whole issue. Both federal indictments are incredibly damning. But even with access to small dollar donors, legal bills will continue to pile up. With the best representation available, the expresident s best bet was never seeking an acquittal by a jury of his peers. The evidence against him is simply too strong for that. No. His best strategy was to simply find ways to delay all the cases on him until november when he could potentially get elected president and then as president , order his own Justice Department to abandon the pending cases against him. And that seemed like a wild strategy play. In all honesty, it likes like he might get away with it. Often times delays happen in the judicial system. Even when judges are acting in good faith. The expresident is accused of bribing a porn star about keeping quiet about the affair they had while melania was at home taking care of their newborn son. This was paid just weeks before the election. It was supposed to go to trial in a matter of days but both sides have agreed to push it back. Discovery material made available to new york prosecutorrers. Braggs office has asked for a one month delay. Trumps lawyers asked for three months. We have seen a delay in the Fulton County georgia racketeering case for potentially inappropriate relationship fani willis had with one of her prosecutors and whether that constitutes a conflict of interest. They are different in scope and motivation from the other weaponnized Delay Tactics. Members of the judiciary, donald trump hand picked for their jobs. Like, the Supreme Court of the United States with the extreme sixmember majority, three of whom owe their Lifetime Tenure to the expresident. They have bent over backwards by sitting on his appeal for weeks. Scheduling arguments for the latest day they are allowed. It is all a part of what looks to all the world at least at this point like a flagrant bid to push trumps january 6th trial until after the election. That brings us back to judge alean cannon in florida. Through the luck of the draw, she was assigned the trumps documents case. Every single moment where she could choose between expedition or delay, she has always chosen to delay. Now is when the rubber hits the road. She will have to set a real trial date. We will see if she chooses the most obvious one. Delaying his trial until after the election. It is entirely possible. Why one conservative congressmen commenter said he was dealt a good hand. It was looking only like it was because he hired the dealers. Lisa rubin and tim williams, former federal prosecutor. Senior Investigative Council of the january 6th committee. And they join me now. Lets talk about the goings on in florida today. Judge aileen. Donald trump in the room. Some part of me says he is there to remind her who appointed her. It is double sided. Trump shows up to remind the people who favor him and he shows up to intimidate the people who dont. When he had discovered that it doesnt work with some of those people, he stopped showing up as frequently. For example, with judge. But with Aileen Cannon, he will continue to show up because it reminds her what might await her if she continues playing his cards right. The hearing was on motion to dismiss. One of which was that the charges were unconstitutionally vague . The defendant has a constitutional right to understand what he is being charged with. If a statute is too vague meaning you cant tell what conduct is being prohibited, that is unconstitutional. And what trump was arguing today is that the Espionage Act was unconstitutional because it was too baying. Now that is a frivolous motion. The kind of motion that judge cannon could have taken on the papers. Read the briefing and decided without an entire hearing she did today. Judge did that all the time. What she should have done here, so, her coming out and then issuing this order, right afterwards, and dismissing that which was obviously a prewritten order ready to go i think further shows she could have decided this immediately and move thirddegree along quickly and chose not to. This is an example of taking the loppinger route. Its like you got the maps program pulled up. You can take the quick route or the longer route. She took the scenic route. I want to illustrate how scenic it is, chris. She didnt just say im dismissing your motion. She said im dismissing it without prejudice which means they cant take an appeal from it. And she is kicking the can just further down the road. She is not saying the question about unconstitutional vagueness of the Espionage Act is resolved. She says i still have questioning about this. They might be better resolved at a later stage of the proceeding so, your motion is denied without prejudice. You can renew it at a later date. So that is keeping the door open. Just to be clear, the Espionage Act was passed by woodrow wilson. It is on the merits a deeply flawed piece of legislation. A bad piece of legislation. But the reason i bring this up, is unlike a claim to president ial immunity in a fairly novel circumstance, the unconstitutionality is not some novel new argument you have to wrestle with. People have been charged and sentenced under the willful Retention Prong of the Espionage Act four decades. Over and over again. This is not Appellate Court or the Supreme Court. She is bound by a higher court precedent. So, the realistic mess she was going to come out with an entire new framework was unlikely for that reason as well. I try to keep checking myself. I dont want to fall into the pattern i think trump and others fall into. To view all judicial appointments as platly partisan. There is no such thing as law. It is a dangerous way to view things. I guess it does seem to me every time i look at a cannon decision, a fair minded observer would say at the very minimum, she is not moving this quickly. She doesnt seem to be spurred on any urgency. Even the way she structured the motions to dismiss shows she has an interest or at least a willingness to aaron elongate the proceedings. She has seven 25page motions from him and replies from him. This was the first hearing on his motions to dismiss. She heard two of them today. So we have five more to go. Some of them implicate classified information. This will go on for some time. And in the meantime, she still hasnt set a trial date. And you can take a bunch of different views on why that is. One might be she hopes the Supreme Court will while she is moving through the other motions to dismiss sort of save her and enter an opinion on president ial immunity that allows trump to continue to advance that defense in this case. But a more charitable view is she understand thats her case is the least trial ready. She does not want to accept a summer trial of this case. If it essentially means it goes the other way. Loses the opportunity to try that case. She would be very soundly criticized for that if she did. Lets talk about new york. So, again, all this stuff about the clock is so weird because we are getting this window to the judicial system that is always moving slowly. Right . That is just the way the american judicial system works. Today, we got word that there will be an up to 30day delay that has been agreed to by alvin Braggs Office das because of a late turnover. The u. S. Attorneys office gave them materials like three days ago. And now they have to go through it . So the thing to recognize is that different offices operate independently of each other. Well clearly. You know. What happens, when an office here gets information, he has obligations under the law. Whether it is impeachment evidence. The discovery obligations. Even if he gets it the day of the trial, it doesnt absolve them of responsibility. So whatever decisions they were made by the federal prosecutors here which would be surprising or shocking. Gave it to the former president s team. I think it is really, really a bad look for the Department Of Justice and alvin bragg is not the one at fault. One of the things trump says about all the cases is it represents collusion between the biden Justice Department and the das. Whether it be willis, bragg, or the attorney gin of new york. He has even looped in e. Jean carroll who is just a private plaintiff. It is all a conspiracy. But what happened today would have never happened if they were colluding. Alvin bragg said in his filing today, look, i asked the u. S. Attorneys office for all this stuff last year. They gave me a subset of what i asked for. Trump waited until january. Issued a subpoena of his own. And lo and behold, very recently gets back. It is now hundreds of thousands of pages of documents including some of the very same stuff i asked for and didnt get. I cant explain this. But because i cant, i will agree to an adjournment. After the u. S. Attorneys office provided 73,000 pages of discovery. His offices initial review were largely irrelevant. They had produced about 31 pages of additional records. An additional production would follow next week. This came after trump issued that subpoena. This will delay this trial it looks like. We will get the month delay. Well see. But think the judge will agree. The trial will probably go forward. And the judge, he is the one judge we have seen who is not playing games herement he has kept tight control over his courtroom and his courtroom calendar. She lost the ability to. He is not going to push this three months out. We will keep this on the time line. I dont want to be too cynical here. But, you know, the Trump Legal Team has wounded away until they got to a court with their own people on it. Then things slow down. That is what is happening. You got until you find the judge that you appointed and then things slow down. Which is why i think judge cannon is sort of like brilliant in a notpositive way. By denying the motion today without prejudice. To your point about not casting trump judges or obama judges, judge cannon has been smacked down twice. The last time they said her Special Master Process was warranted. It was a three judge panel all appointed by President Trump president s. So i take that with some confidence. In the rule of law with some confidence. No matter who they are appointed by. But Aileen Cannon is not inspiring my confidence. Coming up, why bother trying to win the presidency when you can just steal it . As the trump gang completes its hostile takeover of the Republican Party, what it means for the future of democracy. For the future of democracy. On one level, you could say Donald Trumps relation to democracy seems straightforward. He doesnt care about that. He doesnt like to lose. Right . He has lost to democratic elections. He is desperate for criminal immunity so it is instrumental for him. No democracy, no losing no problem. I think it is actually deeper than that. Deeper than an instrumental whatever works best. I think opposing democracy is not just convenient for him. It is actually a fixed strongly held ideological belief. You can see that all the time in his constant praise of dictators. It is good to have a Good Relationship with putin and xi and all these people with lots of nuclear weapons. And kim jong un, i have a Good Relationship with. He is a tough smart guy. Tough smart guys. He always says that. He says hes the boss, what he say goes. He likes the idea of a strong man tough with his people. He prefers dictatorship to democracy as a fixed principle. Not just on day one. But again, still, that is all very rhetorical. If you want an incredible example of this in practice, just look at what is going on at the Republican National committee. Where trump is a presumptive nominee is purgeing the party and making it in his image. Actual republican expert haves been at odds with trumps for years because he tells Republican Voters and trump voter thats mail in voting is rigged. Remember this . Spent months saying it back in november of 2020. After joe biden won. There were still the two Critical Senate run off elections in georgia. And mcdaniel was confronted with the real world effect of trumps lies. Switching the votes and we go there in crazy numbers. And they should have won. But then, there is still. Yeah. We didnt see that in the audit. So we have to just, that evidence i havent seen. So we will wait and see on that. How are we going to spend money and work if it is not decided. It is not decided. Thats the key. If you lose your faith and you dont vote, people walk away, that will decide it. Its not rigged. I promise you, please vote. Remember, democrats swept both of those senate seats. So the rnc realized they had a problem. This bizarre Vendetta Trump had against wail in voting which is not what the gentleman there was referencing. Mail in voting was hurting them. Mailing ballot is a way to bank votes. You never know what will happen on election day. You dont want to wait until the last section and there is a blizzard or an emergency. Or voters cant get out of work before the polls close. Not only that, this is crucial. If you bank those votes early, then you have a smaller Voter Universe to deal with on election day to contact the voters and churn them out. It is an efficient way to do it. This is why after the 2020 debacle, the rnc launched the bank your Vote Campaign to as they put it get our voters to vote by mail or early in person and ballot harvest where permitted. All things the last republican president said were corrupt and fraudulent. Wrongly. But now, donald trump could be the next republican president. And his people have taken over the rnc. Guess what he is doing as part of his remodeling . The much heralded bank your vote program aimed at getting republicans to vote early will shift to a grow the vote program, focused more on expanding the partys outreach to less likely trump voters according to the Washington Post which of course, voter outreach is good i guess. But they also installed Christina Bobb, an ardent 2020 election denier as, listen for the title. Senior counsel for election integrity. So. To recap, they are kill tag idea. With bobb, they are going all in on election integrity. Suing Election Officials and challenging voter access. The new institutional ethos is more my pillow guy. So lets be like the democrats and vote early. No, you lose your country. Thats where all the crime is. In the early voting and stuff. No. Thats nuts. Youre wrong. But thats what donald trump wants. Remember, he was complaining about the election being rigged ad nauseam before he even lost it in 2020. Remember that . And heres the party he runs making an affirmative choice backed up by money and manpower and logistics. A choice to put their effort into trying to suppress the vote. Election integrity. Stop people from voting rather than the effort they had in place to just straightforwardly win more votes. Make it easier for your people to vote. Thats what they are committed to. Because donald trump hates the idea of people choosing their leader. He would prefer it if the leader could choose his people. It is one of his few deeply held core beliefs. Deeply held core beliefs. It is becoming glaringly apparent that donald trump absolutely crushed joe biden in the election. We learned enough about the Dominion Machine and software to know it is intentionally hackable. Fixable. It monitors the spread of vote to alert of the needed additional votes. I have never seen that footage before. That is, wow. That is false. To be clear. Completely untrue. The thing you get sued over. You may remember Christina Bobb is the trump lawyer who falsely certified the expresident handed over all the material. That was not true. Now, she has been hired as the special counsel. That woman. Special counsel for election integrity. Michelle goldberg is with the new york times. They join me now. Good to have you here. I was just, i was sort of struck by this reporting about the mail in vote thing. Because this is really, it is like some people make the coffee the night before. Some make in the morning. Doesnt mean your views on anything. It is so, such a tell to me they are shutting it down. This is something common to a lot of dictators, tyrants. In that they insist on trying to mold reality to their own whims and positions. We saw this on the first day of Donald Trumps presidency when he made Shawn Spicer Go Out and those were the biggest crowds anybody saw. Donald trump changed the weather map because he had said it was going to hit alabama and this is similar. Donald trump has said over and over again that mail in voting is fraudulent. It is the reason that the 2020 election was stolen for him. And the rest of the party has to pretend as if that is the case. Even when it is done to the detriment of their electoral chances. Theres a lot of things done. I would imagine. Im not a republican. I would imagine gutting the rnc. All of these republican parties that have filled themselves up with trumpists and devolved into infighting and got near bankruptcy is not good for their chances. But fealty to the leader trumps that. You know how useful voting ahead of election day is for a campaign. Because you have a list of list. You know a big bunch of your voters. We have to go talk to this person, they already voted. That helps. These guys are not interested in legitimately winning elections. They are laying the groundwork to overturn. They are putting in the effort. Dude, you are neck in neck. Try to win it the right way. That is why it is so important there be a Democratic House for example in january of next year to certify a hopefully free and fair election. And we have no reason to believe the election wont be free and fair other than the nonsense that donald trump and his republican supporters in congress are pushing about voting by mail. One of the crazy inversions happening. For the 20 years i covered politics. It has always been this. Democrats have a lot of marginal voters. They sometimes vote, they sometimes dont. And they need an operation that identifies those voters and gets a turnout. We are seeing a real inversion happen. The people, the least regular voters are the people that, biden is most losing to trump. How do you think it changes everyones calculations . Im not sure that it is changing everyones calculations. I mean again, you would think that it would create the incentives to bank your voters early. And make it easy to vote. You would think it would change the partisan balance of the whole thing. Im not sure how much donald trump has internalized the fact that kind of greater vote no turnout could actually benefit him. I dont think the Republican Party as a whole has internalized that. On the flip side, it is also the reason that drats shouldnt take too much comfort than the fact they keep doing better than the poll suggests. It has become an educated upper middle class party. The most conscionable people who will vote in a special election, those people are often democrats. But you need people who are only, the people for example who in polls dont know who which candidate is responsible for roe v. Wade getting overturned. This is the natural consequence of a party that knows it cannot win the major of voters. This is legislation that will cap the cost of Prescription Drugs to that in the next year, no one on medicare will pay more than 2,000 annually out of pocket for their prescriptions so literally, their agenda is to raise the price of Prescription Drugs for americans seniors. They cant run on stuff like that. Voted against the inflation reduction act. There is a universe where he could have done that. But the fact is they would rather work to overturn an lex. Or make it harder for people to access the ballot than come bane in a way that actually appeal to the American People. Their economic agenda in particular is deeply unpopular. And we see that when it comes to social issues. This ivf ruling in alabama is scaring the hell outover people including my opponent. They cant run away from something they are on the record support. What i find interesting is i do think these shift ins the coalition have not sunk in to people. In the Different Party apparatuses but it speaks to First Principles matter. I think democrats really believe in voter access. And republicans dont. So you get what you get. Thank you both. Still to come, as republicans continue their assault on womens rights, Vice President harris makes a historic visit to counter that. Historic visit to counter that. Do you have a Life Insurance policy you no longer need . Now you can sell your policy even a term policy for an immediate cash payment. Call Coventry Direct to learn more. We thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. 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If you have been paying attention to polling and the primary results you know a consistent theme is how strong of an appeal Donald Trump Holds for selfidentified evangelical christians. The thing about elections is they are won at the margins. And a deeper look at exit polling shows trumps performance with evangelicals actually declined between 2016 and 2020. In 2016, he won 80 of the evangelical vote with just 16 voting for hillary clinton. By 2020, trump was only winning 76 of evangelicals with 24 voting for joe biden. That is a sizable shift. Especially since evangelicals made up more of the 2020 electorate than 2016. It really matters what trumps margins are particularly in tightly contested swing states. There doesnt seem to be a ton of democratic outreach directed at trying to win over the getable evangelicals which is where fastest passenger torn ligament doug paget comes in. He is an evangelical pastor an goes around to all sorts of events including outside trump rallies, border protests, evangelical gatherings. His pitch is simple. Voting for donald trump is not a requirement to be aligned with your faith. I got a chance to sit up down to him in the latest episode of my potted cast. We know a lot of people are heartbroken by the experience they are having where they are having to choose between their faith and the political identity that was wedded together. They didnt even know the two came as a package deal. It is like pulling into a wendys and ordering the number 2 and it comes with a fries. You said yes to your faith. You didnt know it came with a side dish of being a republican the rest of your life. I remember sitting on my couch in 2016 and feels like something has changed for me. I cannot keep moving in the evangelical spaces. I could no longer say to myself that, that community that was necessary for Donald Trumps success in the campaign was a Different Community than me. Vote common good is seeking an answer to that. We travel the country, we meet with people. Do trainings. We meet with pastors. We have been all over this question. It was really a fascinating conversation. And it is available now. You can scan that qr code on your screen. Or just search for chris hayes wherever you get your podcast to give it a listen. Why choose a sleep number smart bed . Can i make my side softer . I like my side firmer. Sleep number does that. The queen sleep number c4 smart bed is only 1,599, save 300. Shop now at sleepnumber. Com what is cirkul . Cirkul is the fuel you need to take flight. Cirkul is the energy that gets you to the next level. Cirkul is what you hope for when life tosses lemons your way. Cirkul, available at walmart and drinkcirkul. Com. Today, Vice PresidentKamala Harris toured a Planned Parenthood Facility in saint paul, minnesota. It is believerred to be the first time that a sitting Vice President or president visited a clinic that provides abortion services. Out of concern about anti abortion protests, the Vice President s office did not release the location in advance of her visit. She spoke to Health Care Workers providing health care in a safe place that gives people dignity. She said she specifically chose to go to the twin cities, in the aftermath of the Supreme Courts dobbs ruling, minnesota has protected abortion rights affirmatively and providing care to an influx of patients from out of state as other states around it have restricted access. Please do understand when we talk about a clinic such as this, it is absolutely about health care and Reproductive Health care. So everyone get ready for the language. Uterus. That part of the body means a lot of medical care from time to time. Just like if fibroids, Breast Cancer screenings, contraceptive care. That is the kind of work that happens here. In addition to abortion care. So to have laws in states that cause clinics like this to shut down so women dont have any access within any reasonable distance of where they live, to get this vital care that is necessary to address their health needs and concerns. How dare. These elected leaders believe they are in a better position to tell women what they need. To tell women what is in their best interest. We have to be a nation that trusts women. The president and ceo of reproductive freedom for all joins me now. Flies to have you here. Thanks for having me. It was striking to me when this visit was announced and everyone did a Little Research and said oh, has this happened before . It has never happened before. What does it mean . I worked at planned parenthood and we would have to walk through throngs of protesters. Death threats to our providers. This was predobbs in the heart of some of the most intense fights. When the restrictions became really outrageous so that is why you dont often see folks go. So it is important to remember. The Security Situation has been so bad and so scary and difficult. George tiller. A kansas ogbyn killed by antiabortion extremists. It is important for your viewer to remember the history here. What Kamala Harris did today was so critical. Post dobbs, we have done a great job of telling the stories of the patients but we have not dug into the impact on providers. Providers criminalized. Prosecuted. This is the other story. It really, really makes the American Public angry. It is important she went to a plannened parenthood specifically and she raised the alarm. One of the things so striking about this insane patchwork that the Supreme Court has visited upon us, is that you have gotten different rights at the most core level state to state. So theres a number of ramifications of that. North dakota and south dakota who are next to minnesota are states that have banned abortion. In a country where you can move state to state. Will is legislation moving. Maybe not for abortion. Maybe not an abortion provider. They are looking to protect providers. They need to provide care in another. The Licensing Question is there was an article yesterday i believe i read. Medical education happens across the country in different states. Thats right. This is a key part of womens Reproductive Health and a key thing for doctors to learn how to do. I talked to medical students who have changed their plans for residency, for training. You cant learn how to do this care. There were already impacts on hospitals and teaching hospitals. Catholic hospitals. Prohibiting their students from learning this care. So there has been an all out attack and it is worse now. You are from texas i was really struck by this ruling when it came down the from the Fifth Circuit. The Fifth Circuit is notorious. It is particularly aggressive on issues of reproductive choice. A father who has sued to stop federally funded clinics from providing contraceptions to his teenage daughters. He stipulates they have not tried to get contraception. He has no stated injury. It is all hypothetical. The Fifth Circuit has ruled in his favor. In part. The District Court correctly reasoned the father alleges injuries to his religious exercises and parental rights. He claims the policy burdens his right to exercise his christian belief his children should abstain from premarital sex. They want to restrict access to contraception. They keep saying they dont. And then when you look at what conservatives are doing in the court, they do. It gets weirder, this comes out of judge matthews court. The medication abortion. Back door abortion ban. And judge who rule Second Degree the same judge in the hobby lobby case. It is all of the things encanneslated in one crazy case. And they are doing the same thing they do with mifepristone. If viewers remember, you have amarillo, texas has one district judge. You find a reason to file there. You create an organization. And you get the judge, you know what he is going to do. He grabs it. This is how it is happening. This is separate for mifepristone. The organize arguments are in a couple of weeks. But that why this is important to be looking at what they are doing with judicial nominees and why it is critical they are pushing them through and how interconnected that process is with reproductive rights. And it highlights the latitude, the next administration is going to have on the levers of the federal government independent of congressional input to either e pandore strict the access women have both to Reproductive Services and to contraception. The title 10 case is about what they did to expand access for kids. So, it is all connected. And it is important to remember. Thank you. Important to remember. Thank you. That is all in on This Thursdayn night. Alish wagner tonight starts right now. Good evening, alex. Amazing were talking about Theng Word Contraception Being T Fwated In B the United States o