Deadline white house starts right now. Hi there, everyone, its 4 00 in new york. The disgraced twiceinimpeached quite indicted president with Delusions Of Grandeur and thin skin is proving that Birds Of A Feather do indeed flock together. While President Joe Biden was on the road pitching an agenda nor the second term, the expresident was meeting with the proputin antidemocratic leader of hungary singing his praises, watch that. Theres nobody better, smarter, or better than viktor orban, hes fantastic. Does a good job. Noncontroversial, because he said this is the way its going to be. Hes the boss. Hes a greater leader. Fantastic leader in europe and All Over The World. They respect him. Never mind the fact that orban is anything but, noncontroversial, even in his own country. And death by a thousand cuts approach to ending democracy in his own nation has been universally condemned. The meeting between the hungarian Strongman Leader and the wannabe american strong man, also yielded an alarming and dangers policy announcement, orban in that conversation to hungarian media said if trump is elected he will not give a penny in the Ukraine Russia war, therefore, the war will end because its obvious Ukraine Cannot Stand on its own two feet. The stance that is devastating to ukraine, the fighting in ukraine controversy All Over The World would be a body blow to the world. Also a strategic victory for Vladimir Putin, another dictator that the expresident has been idolized for years. Dictators, even hitler runs deep, its in his dna. And what he says about them in public isnt alarming enough, but what he says about them in private can be even worse. Form National Security adviser john bolton to donald trump telling jim sciutto in a new book, quote, he views himself as a big guy, he likes dealing with other big guys and big guys like erdogan in turkey get to put people in jail and dont have to ask anybodys permission. He kind of like that. And the former Chief Of Staff says of his old boss, trump, hes not a tough guy by any means but thats how he envisions himself. According to general kelly, trumps praise of hitler for doing what trump said, quote, a lot of good things are just the tip of the iceberg. Kelly continues, well, he said, hitler did some good things. I said, well what . He said, trump, said, hitler rebuilds the economy. What did he do with that economy, he turned it against his own people. I said, you can never say anything good about is the guy, nothing. Mussolini was a great guy in comparison. Its pretty hard to believe he missed the holocaust, though. And pretty hard to understand how he missed the 400,000 american g. I. S who were killed in the european theater, kelly told me, i think its more the tough guy thing. The expresident and presumptive nominees deep entireautocrats, means, we begin in france, michael goal is here. Charlie sykes, eddie cloud is here. With me at the table, democratic strategic at Hunter College, michael is here. Michael one of the features of the trump 2024 campaign is its all out there. Its not on the stump. There arent as many private conversations seen by ordinary journalists like yourself. Im sure there will be in coming months one of the Dangerous Things from a traditional candidate is one of the things hes announcing from the stump. That include the fullon fawning of the worlds most dangerous autocrats. Yeah, i think its been year this year and last years campaigning he repeatedly praises strong man dictators, putin, and he doubles down, after saying it at times, the press will crucify me. And orban is a person he mentions on the trail, obviously, theres an affinity for orban and farright conservatives. He was invoking orbans praise for him as good quality. Yeah, michael, i remember when trump met with the Russian Ambassador in the oval office. And it was Russian Media i think your colleagues were the first to report that on the Trump White House beat. This had an echo to that. Where orban was the first to report that trump would cut off ukraine and cut off u. S. Funds to ukraine. Something he actually tried to do to zelenskyy. As president he got impeached for it. What do you think of the lack of any sort of policies or procedures in terms of having the American Press have this information before the Hungarian Press . I think theres an extent to which trump is treating himself like a president. Given his claims that false claims, i should say, that he won the 2020 election. I think one thing that is striking is the campaign did send out a readout from this meeting, but the readout focused on litigation. And the only drips we got from that meeting came originally from orbans social media, with the nice things that trump was saying. Trump talking about Foreign Policy with the white house, i think theres a lot of question about what hes actually saying and what he thinks. In the meantime, you had the pronouncements during the rallies where he talks about the views on nato and where he would encourage russia to attack allies who he didnt think would contribute to the military. We dont know what hes having in the conversations. Theres an extent to which the speech has to speak for itself on this. And speak for themselves, they do. Charlie sykes, something that weve been asking for years is really coming into full view. And to the credit of john kelly and john bolton, they have both spoken before, john bolton wrote a book. Right. Where he writes about his persons during impeachment one. They went beyond trumps perversion of u. S. Policy, with ukraine, writings concerns that u. S. Foreign policy when it came to turkey had also been corrupted. And general kelly said he describes trump as the most disturbed person hes seen. And trumps former advisers say he most consistently lavished praise on russian president Vladimir Putin. John bolton recalls a comment from trump from the nato summit. Following nato leaders meeting, said the Adversary Quote May be the easiest of all. He said to the press as he goes to the hospital i think the easiest meeting would be with Vladimir Putin. Who would think that . John bolton, theres only one person, theyre big guys, i wish i could act like they do. We have all of the pieces now, charlie sykes, i guess at one point this stops being a trump story and starts being a biden story . Well, this will never be surreal. I think thats the main point. Its not just that donald trump has an obvious fetish for strong men, its that last line, he wishes he could be more like them. You have to ask when he looks at them with admiration, what does that tell you what he wants to do when he becomes the tough guy again. Orbans record, as you point out is not noncontroversial. Hes attacking the courts, hes attacking the media. And cruel treatment of refugees. And White Nationalist rhetoric. He has inferred antisemitism. And yet donald trump look at him and says hes the boss, hes the guy that i admire so much. So i think this is this moment, this is kind of a challenge, because this is not trump derangement syndrome. This is out of the mouth of donald trump on a regular and consistent basis. These are the reports that were getting from the people who work the most closely with him. That donald trump, far from being the american patriot, far from being, you know, the conservative protector of american values, looks at the world thugs and thinks i wish i could be more like them. I admire them so much. Theres really no precedent in American History for Something Like this. Lets deal with hitler. I mean, weve had some of this seep into public view. This is confirmation of that previous reporting in jim sciuttos new book. This is what jim sciutto reports. According to john kelly, trumps praise of hitler for doing, quote, a lot of good things is the tip of the iceberg. If hitler did a lot of good things is the tip of the iceberg, this feels like Something Worth Understanding between now and november, charlie . It does seem like Something Worth Understanding. And if this is not disqualifying, what would be . And yet, i have to tell you that i think its unlikely that donald trump will lose a single republican endorsement as a result of all of this, although its hard to even imagine, its hard to even come up with something that would be more disturbing. You know, that when you think about when you want installed as the commander in chief, who you want to put in the office held by George Washington and abraham lincoln, would you want someone who admires, even a little bit, admires adolf hitler within zip codes of the oval office . But this is where were at here. And i dont know what more you can say. Because, you know, nicolle, weve been talking about the last seven years, what is the red line. What would make republicans look at donald trump and say this man is not fit to be in office. I may agree with him about tax policy or whatever, but you cant have somebody that admires this strong men that actually thinks that viktor orban and Vladimir Putin are the kinds of people they want to emulate. Now its up to the electorate and up to joe biden to sharpen this contrast which he started to do last thursday night in the State Of The Union address. Eddie, let me show you some of what President Joe Biden has to say about, again, the journalist that had the job of covering it, has had some of the toughest beats in the land. And trump is staying this out loud. Donald trump has a different constituency. Heres a guy kicking off his campaign up the road with Marjorie Taylor greene. It can tell you a lot about a person he keeps company with. And yesterday, he was hosting at his club viktor orban who says he doesnt think democracy works, calling him a fantastic leader. Seriously. Hes been sucking up to anyway, one of those dictators and authoritarian thugs all around the world. He said the north korean dictator kim jongun wrote him a beautiful letter. He bragged about Calling Xi Jinping a king. He called putin, he said do whatever the hell you want to our allies. Im not making these quotes up. He says he wants to be a dictator, i believe him. And, eddie, whats so amazing, is we now have such clear lines, between life and leaders on earth one, and life and leaders on earth two. If you contrast the biden speech, well call that earth one and the boos and the jeers. If you look at vaughn hillyards superb reporting in the aftermath of trump allies where theyre asked about strong man. Putin, yes, ukraine and then this is not a clash between trump and biden. They have very traditional views in the post world war ii time about nato and our allies, but trump supporters, at least the ones who have been interviewed on camera having watched trumps speeches which touch on these themes have been radicalized to be something very different. Yes, nicolle, i think you made a point to charlie in your leadup to the question, in some ways, we know who trump is, this is about biden and us, right. When we talk about trump, we need to talk about his desire to be a big man. His attraction to autocratic leaders or dictatorial leaders but we have to understand the etiological underpinnings, so there is trump, the personality and what hes trafficking in. Orban is a leading figure in global White Nationalism. Hes a leading figure in global White Christian nationalism. You think about it, may 14th is the buffalo shooting. And we know that murderer, right, wrote a treatis of sorts talking about it. Two days later in hungary, orban talked about the same theory, talking about being replaced by migrants. So that attraction to orban is rooted in this story that biden mentioned in the State Of The Union about The Other Side, right, The Other Side, the american story that trump is interested in is one of hatred and greed and revenge. And its a story that has deep roots in u. S. History. And so even though its earth one and earth two on a certain level, theres this kind of blurring, theres this line, this overlap thats rooted deep in our history that we have to begin to unpack. The folks hes speaking to, a good thing, nicolle, they actually believe that theyre losing the country. And they need a strong man to claim it, right . And we saw this, right in the midst of those plantation owners exploiting those poor white folk. And calling them to fight in the civil war on behalf of slavery, even though they werent benefitting from the institution. So, weve seen some of this before. Yeah. I mean, biden, i think there are two things going on here. One, those of us who covered trump for eight years, you know, the Cassette Tape starts and stops, wherever we pick it up, we pick it up. The journalist that covers a rally has to cover a rally. But there is a vital, i would argue International Reality in widening the lens. And i dont know if ive ever said global White Nationalist, and what ties this global in syncs that lead to policies together. Its a real wakeup call for those of us covering the story the third time around to get smart about what it is that juices his supporters, about that. I mean, its a bizarre, i hate to invoke, you know, fat aged performer, because whatever that tortured metaphor is that trump is doing. But to eddies point, its got resonance. Yeah, i dont know the last time you had a hiphop on your show. To eddies point theres a great quote by one of my favorite rappers who said that black and white didnt argue the most, clearly we would see the government. That is what donald trump is trying to do, sow that dissension. One thing that was said, hes trying to a strong man, yes, he is but thats not a recent phenomenon. They went back to 2015 and looked at it and said, you know what, a lot of this has been consistent for many years. So this is who he has been. I dont know if its because i just read this stuff all the time and im a black man and say that somebody is thinking about me and trying to abrogate my rights that i focus on it, hes been consistent and repetitive, so, we have no reason not to believe that he will carry out what he says. To michaels point, he does act like a president in exile. Contrast this to 2008, barack obama goes to germany. He makes a speech in front of 1 Million People or so, young people. And essentially credits them for being at the front of The Movement To Democratize Europe and the rest of the world. Think about in contrast what donald trump is doing, as a president you know, this sort of president in exile. By pulling together these threads of White Nationalism across the globe. Guess what hes going to do if he gets back to office . Hes going to bring all of that to bear with what happens in the United States. I want to see if i can find some of that biden speech because its such a great contrast. To also, your point, we found that. Trump has been saying the same thing. I would be there with joe, when he said these things and joes head what let me take a very short break. When we come back, Donald Trumps rallies as weve been discussing have dived into really dark spaces, previewing what he hopes to accomplish if hes reelected. Themes of retribution and despair. And decline, were quoting him, a toxic mix that threatens to throw democracy into further chaos. Plus, why people are still talking about the republican response about the State Of The Union arrest this week. The senators very, very misleading tale of trafficking at the border being debunked. Later in the forecast, he cant just stop, liable for defamation, trump did it again, attacking e. Jean carroll over the weekend. Will she sue him again . All of this continues when deadline white house comes back after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. Of recurrence of hrpositive,rk her2negative, nodepositive, early Breast Cancer with a high chance of returning as determined by your doctor when added to hormone therapy. Diarrhea is common, may be severe, or cause dehydration or infection. At the first sign, call your doctor, start an antidiarrheal , and drink fluids. Before taking verzenio, tell your doctor about any fever, chills, or other signs of infection. Verzenio may cause low white blood cell counts, which may cause serious infection that can lead to death. Lifethreatening Lung Inflammation can occur. Tell your doctor about any new or worsening trouble breathing, cough, or chest pain. Serious Liver Problems can happen. Symptoms include fatigue, appetite loss, stomach pain, and bleeding or bruising. Blood clots that can lead to death have occurred. Tell your doctor if you have pain or swelling in your arms or legs, shortness of breath, chest pain, and rapid breathing or heart rate, or if you are nursing, pregnant, or plan to be. Im making my own way forward. Talk to your doctor about reducing your risk. Woman why did we choose safelite . Talk to your doctor we were loading our suv when. Crack safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when theyd arrive with a replacement we could trust. Thats service the way we want it. Singers safelite repair, safelite replace. Morikawa on 18. He is really boxed in here. Not a good spot. Off the Comcast Business van. Into the vending area. Oh, not the fries wheres the ball . Anybody see it . Oh wait, there it is back into play and. Aw no, its in the water. Wait a minute. Are you kidding me . You got to be kidding me. Rolling towards the cup, and its in the hole what an impossible shot brought to you by Comcast Business. Theyre like Rock Concerts for those living on earth two, but the rest of us recognize Donald Trumps political rallies for exactly what they are. A radioactive witchs brew of outright lies, heavy grievances and as we discussed Donald Trumps dark dystopian plans for a second term. The gaffs and stumbles, a degree of cognitive decline that leads trump to talk about his cognitivity. And exactly what it would look and sound like, reporters at the Washington Post trained their eyes on just werent such speech. It was from late last month, took place in south carolina. Long and laden with resentment, he played all the hits, execution, martyrdom and as we mentioned, trumps speech provides a road map of what a second term might look like, fulfilling his promises to root out the deep state of Civil Servants cracking down on illegal immigration and crime. And points out his weaknesses as candidates, sometimes slurring his words confusing names of world heres and attacking minority in defensive ways. Were back. Your thoughts on this single speech under a microscope. You know, i think its interesting to look at that speech because it was coming as the General Election was there. At the time, nikki haley was still in the race. I actually thought the speech he gave on saturday when i wrote about for the times, talked about the fact that the speech is not changing as we move into the General Election season. It was two hours, longer than hes been going recently. He talked about his time, he went after megyn kelly, and he, of course, attacked President Biden and said a lot about immigrants that i think has gotten attention over the last several months. Its very clear as we head toward november and looking at a race thats going to be dominated by independent voters in a handful of states, the message is not changing. The same we heard a year ago. What is he still mad about megyn kelly about, has he not caught her turn back to the right . He basically said her name, megyn kelly, r. I. P. Made fun of her for pivoting back to conservatism and politics again. Wow. Let me show you and again, i want to be careful to explain why were showing trump sound. Wee have been over eight years pretty judicious on how and when we use it. Hes running this country, at least hes a leader, unlike what we have in this country. But, again, he killed journalists that dont agree with him. Well, i think our country does plenty of killing also, joe. The problem is not that putin so that was trump on his love for dictators. To stick a pin in that, i want to, because youve been out there with him, especially the tour speech, i want to show you trump flubs and how he handles his own flubs on the stump. He must be cognitively impaired. Im not cognitive when i am, youre going to hear it, boom, this is me, bing did you just say maduro venezuela unbelievable, even argentina, they went maga. Argentina, a great guy. Were a nation that recently heard, saudi arabia and russia ahh the polls are all rigged. Of course, lately, they havent been rigged, theyre winning by so much, i want to say, disregard that statement. All incompetent Biden Administration. Ukraine and russia would you not be fighting, potin, i know him very well. Theyre weaponizing election high level interference against joe biden top and only political appointment, a guy named me. I mean, if he wasnt running for president and was ceo, the Business Community and the stocks, this would be a totally different story but because hes totally incubated by movement that doesnt give a you know what, that just kind of goes unnoticed outside of the reporters who cover it. Does any what would the supporters do when he calls putin potin, i mean, is it a dog whistle, what is it . I think we have to look at the extent to which his supporters are there at this point. I mean, theyre there. This is their leader. The people who are at these rallies back him no matter what. Part of the reason why, theyre waiting for hours in line, youre not going into one of these things if youre not already a fan of donald trump. When i talk about the stumps, they write them off and say, sure, he misspoke, but look at joe biden. My colleague and i wrote a story at the end of last year, talking about how trump continues to attack joe biden saying hes not mentally fit. As president , people are paying more attention, you know, to these stumbles that he seems to be having or things. Weve seen that in the last few weeks, those things have gotten quite a bit of attention. The people at these rallies dont mind. The question is whether or not independent voters, what weve been saying that joe biden is not mentally ready to be president. And charlie, joe biden gives a speech that he gave last week, you could not like what the stuff hes running on but hes forcibly defending the agenda. Heres a point. Hes running against biden, somebody who has triggered him. He gets impeached the first time because hes so reluctant to run against biden in the General Election that he wants to damage his family. Hes running against him as someone who is not up to the task. Heres trump constantly talking about his own brush with a cognitive evaluation. First they say, he wants to take over the world, hes going to take over the world. Hes a dictator. His guy is so brilliant he wants to take over the world. Next day, theyll say hes crazy. The next day theyll say hes incompetent. This is one of the dumbest human beings ever. That was bad. I asked doc ronny. I asked dr. Ronnie jackson. Theyre not that easy. What about a cognitive test. He said, well, you know, its not that easy. I took two of them, i aced it, im proud to say. I aced it. 30 or 35 questions. 30 or 35 questions. You get to the end questions. Very few people can answer those questions. Like a giraffe, a tiger, a whale, which one was the whale. The tusks. Person, woman, man, camera, tv, they say thats amazing. How did you do that . Now, with National Security, its not an algebra test. Its a screen for cognitive decline. And again, this is only an issue because trump is making it an issue in the campaign. And thats his side of the story. What do we do with that, charlie . Well, he also gave joe biden quite a gift by lowering the bar of expectations with the performance. I mean, trump and his allies in the media have spent months now basically saying that joe biden was in complete cognitive decline. It was senile, would be drooling from the podium. And when joe biden puts a rather forceful vigorous performance, what are they left to say . So, you know, i just want to go back to something a little bit earlier. I really do think its important that we continue to shine the spotlight on what donald trump is saying. We have the message that hes putting out. I know that a lot of people think about if we just ignore him, somehow its going to be okay and hes going to go away. I think we tried that before. I dont think that the networks ought to air his speeches live. But we need to listen and take seriously what will he is saying. Because i think there are a lot of americans who kind of have tuned out who and what donald is. You know, theyve listened. Theyve gone on with their lives. Its kind of background noise. 2024 is going to be about focusing the American People on who and what donald trump is. And what he is telling us about himself, every single day. So, i hope he keeps doing this. I hope you keep highlighting and the rest of the media keeps highlighting whats going on in these speeches. Lets not pretend that theres anything normal about it. That theres anything safe about it. That theres anything routine about it. Because i think thats going to be the key to 2024. Eddie, you got a quick last word. Well, i think its important to understand what hes saying. I think charlies absolutely right. And we also need to understand the nature of the rituals of these gatherings. Hmm. Of these speech, these campaigns, theyre ritual acts. They have liturgies, people are being socialized into callousness. Their sense of displacement is being manipulated in sorts of ways so we need to understand the Ritual Practice that is underpinning what donald trump is doing and its threat to american democracy. Michael gold, thank you for reporting. Charlie sykes and eddie glaude, thank you. Basel sticks around. Donald trump and would like us to believe that immigrants are creating a frightening border. A horrific story told by a Junior Senator and how one of the biggest political stages that exists in this country is being called out for what it is today. At 4 months. And skyrizi is just 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. Serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. With skyrizi, nothing on my skin means everything nothing is everything ask your dermatologist about skyrizi. Learn how abbvie could help you save. Im hearing different ways for me to screen for colon cancer. Its time to use my voice, ive got a choice, more than one answer. I sat down with my doc. We had a talk. Knew just what to say. I asked for cologuard and did it my way. Cologuard is a oneofa kind way to screen for colon cancer thats effective and noninvasive. Its for people 45 plus at average risk, not high risk. False positive and negative results may occur. Ask your provider for cologuard. I did it my way sung limu emu and doug. Hello, ghostbusters. Its doug. Of doug and limu. We help people customize and Save Hundreds on Car Insurance with liberty mutual. Anyway, we got a bit of a situation here. Uhhuh. Uhhuh. Mmhmm. Sure, i can hold. Only pay for what you need. sung liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Ghostbusters frozen empire. In theaters march 22. Everyone say, space pod. cheese. [door creaks open] [ominous music] [ding] meanwhile, at a vrbo. When other Vacation Rentals are just for likes, try one youll actually like. Okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. Yay woo hoo ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, nutrients for immune health. And ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. first and foremost, im a mom. And like any mom, im going to do a pivot Out Of Nowhere into a shockingly violent story about sex trafficking. [ laughter ] and rest assured every detail about it is real. Except the year, where it took place and who was president when it happened. [ laughter ] snl at its tippytop best, best, best in its takedown of republican senator katie britts Alabama State of the union response, picking up on Fantastic Reporting Of Jonathan Cast that details a brazen representation made by the senator about that horrific story that became the centerpiece of her strange rebuttal. Britt implied with the graphic sexual abuse experienced by a real victim of Human Trafficking was a result of the Biden Administration immigration policies. But it turns out the abuse endured occurred 2007 and 2008 when george w. Bush was president and didnt even happen in the United States of america. It happened in mexico. The woman, karlajacinto. Did you mean to give the impression that this horrible story happened on President Bidens watch . No, shannon, look, i very specifically said this is what President Biden did during his first 100 days. Ayeyaiyai. Joining our conversation, former rnc spokesman and host of a podcast, tim miller is here. Dawn everest is here. Basel is still with us. I mean, look, tim, when you are and i hate quoting the old politics, i know every day i relearn it every day, its like getting kicked on the side of the head. But rules of politics, when youre in a hole, stop kicking. Of course, he meant to imply it was his fault. The first words were joe biden. I do think the rules of politics do apply to some people and i think the gravity goes to katie britt. Even in maga media world, some of us were dumb founded by her performance, and just the fact it was so phony. And to use this story, to do it in a performative manner to make a point, when none of the underlying facts supported your point, its just so gross. Sometimes, some live in a fantasy world. You could imagine a republican rebuttal from early 2000s. Or democratic rebuttal saying, hey, we need to be concerned. You know, the people at the border, we need to be concerned about their humanity. But we also need to have Stricter Border security. We need to make changes to put in law enforcement. And President Biden hasnt been aggressive enough. If you could imagine a substantive response that is both compassionate and addresses an actual issue, a policy issue. These republicans arent capable of that. All you get is just unabashed cruelty from donald trump planning mass deportations in camps. And putting out somebody like katie britt to try to paper over that and put this kind of sheen, this phony sheen of compassion on top of his cruelty, with no substance on it. It was just totally fabricated lies. And the whole thing is pretty pathetic. I guess the whole thing, it seems like the backlash against her comes from all corners, maybe this is one time when political gravity will apply. I guess the problem, donna, its heard around the world. And i think one of the strongest parts of bidens speech when the republican senator said thats true about the border section. The truth and the facts is that joe biden gave republicans just about everything they wanted in the border biden actually got further than my old boss, mccain and bush, president obama. I mean, he got farther with a bipartisan deal than any recent president. I think that i think that holds up going back at least the previous three administrations. And republicans killed it. Because trump called them and told them to. The only ones that went to support it are the people that listeneded to donald trump and donald trump. That was the real danger in what katie britt said because sheer she was laying a false story at the feet of joe biden at the same time where she joined with her republicans and killed the border security. She was actually in front of the group that was negotiating the bill, and she joined in killing it. So, joe biden said in that speech, are you going to fight about it, or are you going to fix it . And clearly, republicans want to fight about it. They wanted this fight for 2024 and for the election. Sand theyve gotten the fight, except that the tables have turned. And their hypocrisy was laid bare by katie britt in this bizarre story that never happened in the United States. Just never really happened in the way that she described. And she never cleaned it up. So, this idea that she cleaned up the lie actually wasnt true. Because she never cleaned it up at all. She still suggested that it was at the feet and the hands of biden policies that resulted in that really horrible story. And, you know, so republicans really dont have a leg to stand on. We may actually have the upper hand when it came to the fight on immigration. They dont have it at all now. I think thats right. I mean, snl is so brilliant. You know, they are really on to something when they can hue so closely, maybe that was sarah palins actual answers in interviews. In this story again, this is actually what happened, she tells the story of wrong year, wrong president , wrong country. One wonders why she would do that, is she not smart enough . Are the people who wrote the text just not paying attention . Actually, i just want to call attention to the substance, she said it because it works. The fear that shes engendered with works. Not with us, but a core group of maga supporters. Just to take something from Donald Trumps speech and immigration, and he calls immigrants an agony of our people. The plunder of our cities, sacking our own towns, violating our citizens. The conquest of our country. When you listen to language like, you know, i think about 1915 movie called Birth Of A Nation which portrayed Avenue Can Americans as hypersexual and violent. And to the Rescue Of American Virtue was the kkk. Now, its very clear, there are differences between African Americans and immigrants and migrants in this country. The throughline, however, is the way in which White Supremacists are viewed as being virtuous and being able to stand up to the virtues of our country. And when donald trump starts calling out white Scream Supremacists and tasking them, the bullets dont care about the back story. And theres been fun poked at that speech, no question about it. Traditional politics will tell you she should have created a clear alternative to what joe biden was saying. And she absolutely did not do that. But they used that story because that story works. That fear that story is a proxy for fear. And the concern is that it will metastasize in a way that goes well beyond the joke. And basel, we should add to your list, poison in the blood. Because thats what that is about. Lets not let katie britt off the hook. Shes an attorney, shes a United States senator. And she should just know better. Yes. No one is going anywhere. Next for us, President Joe Biden owning all of the conversations, all the questions, all the jabs about his age in the first major ad buy in his General Election campaign. Well show you the new ad, next. Only Unitedhealthcare Medicare advantage plans come with the ucard one simple member card that opens doors for what matters. How bout using it at the pharmacy . Yes your ucard is all you need. impressed huh thats easy the allinone ucard, only from unitedhealthcare. The allin one ucard, okay yall we got ten orders coming in. Big orders starting a business is never easy, but starting it eight months pregnant. Thats a different story. I couldnt slow down. We were starting a business from the ground up. People were showing up left and right. And so did our Business Needs the chase ink card made it easy. When you go for Something Big like this, your kids see that. And they believe they can do the same. Earn unlimited 1. 5 cash back on every purchase with the chase ink business unlimited card. Make more of whats yours. For all of the lame punditry about joe bidens age, hes taking matters into his own hands, it would seem. Hes out with a new ad. It goes directly to one of the biggest attacks leveled against him. Take a look. Look, im not a young guy. Thats no secret. But heres the deal. I understand how to get things done for the American People. I led the country through the covid crisis. Today we have the strongest economy in the world. I passed a law that lowers Prescription Drug prices, caps insulin at 35 a month for seniors. For four years donald trump tried to pass an infrastructure law, and he failed. I got it done. Donald trump took away the freedom of women to choose. Im determined to maikro v. Wade the law of the land again. Donald trump believes the job of the president is to take care of donald trump. I believe the job of the president is to fight for you, the American People. And thats what im doing. Can we do one more take . Look, im very young, energetic and handsome. What the hell am i doing this for . I love that. Donna . I love it. Because it really shows his personality. He is a funloving guy, and he jokes about himself. And i always thought he should lean into his age and experience and wisdom and this does exactly that. Im glad hes owning it. Wisdom is a very important point because you have the ability to step back, take notice and speak from a place of strength, something donald trump doesnt do, which he called talking about donald trump, his wobbly intellect the other day and absolutely right. Just lean into it. And i guarantee people will see the contrast. So tim, i worked for a president who had a different perceived weakness. It was sort of the penchant to misspeak. And he once gave a speech at the Correspondents Dinner where he took on his own sort of blunders and he said you might have wondered what i meant when i said is our children learning or obgyns spreading their love with he ticked through it all, and the room was roaring. They knew he knew that he sometimes flubbed his lines. Yeah, selfdeprecation is powerful in politics. It always has been. I think its particularly powerful when your opponent is incapable of it, like donald trump. Because hes a narcissistic sociopath. So i think biden has to address this head on. Doing it with selfdeprecation is smart. The other part i really liked is a lot of times these nerdy policy, you know, legislation does not break through in elections like this. But the thing about the infrastructure bill, infrastructure became a meme during the trump years because it was always infrastructure week and Everybody Knows that he failed. And so to use that as a proof point, that i am capable, i might be old but i can get stuff done, this guy talked about it every week, we got it done and now youre seeing the actual results in your community. I like that as a contrast point, and i want them to continue driving it throughout the campaign. I have a question for both of you on that. We have to sneak in a quick break first. Well be back with the infrastructure bill. Hows that for a tease . Infrastr. Hows that for a tease nice to meet ya. My name is david. Ive been a pharmacist for 44 years. When i have customers come in and ask for something for memory, i recommend prevagen. Number one, because its effective. Does not require a prescription. And ive been taking it quite a while myself and i know it works. And i love it when the customers come back in and tell me, david, that really works so good for me. Makes my day. Prevagen. At stores everywhere without a prescription. Hey, grab more delectables. Makes my day. You know, that lickable cat treat . Delickable delectables . Yes, just hurry. Hmm. It must be delicious. Delectables l kable treat. Ugh nope try my old spice you can use it on your pits, chest, and even, your. Toes . [both] oh thats fresh old spice whistle yall wayfair makes it so easy to create a home youll love. Its the talk of the neighborhood. Kelly i just wayfaird. Thats wayfair. Saving time saving money. You wayfaird your whole bathroom . even the vanity when i wayfair, i wayfair ya know . Oh i know. This is nice. Another wayfair day you know it. New couch in just two days the wayfair word is out. Wayfair, youve got just what i need lve always wanted to do that. Tim makes such a good point about biden getting done this thing that trump couldnt do, couldnt get it done, couldnt finish the job. How do you make that something that is in front of voters over the next eight months, that every bridge, every road, every you know, every time they see the bars on their phone biden was for that and if youve got a republican senator or congressman chances are they voted against it. Couple of things. Charlie made the point actually earlier on the show that this is a point in time where youve really got to go to the American Voter and just constantly remind them of everything joe biden has done and that the democrats have done. And one thing that theyre starting to do, i with i think is going to be fantastic, is getting the Cabinet Members out there. So youve got pete buttigieg, the transportation secretary, out there ive got him this week. Ive got him here tomorrow. I hosted him at Hunter College a couple months ago. It was fantastic. Students loved him. I think hes good on the issues. Hes also great in motivating and mobilizing young voters as well. So get them out there to be able to tell their individual stories. And whats your advice, having sort of been out there and in front of voters yourself . Well, i think its really specific projects. One of the great things about the administration is this money is spreading all across the country in these projects and i think every time he shows up in a State Pointing out the number of jobs in that state, in those communities, you know, its the bridge and its the road. And, you know, all of the electric Charging Stations and the batteries that are being produced. Theres a good story to tell. And i think you have to tell it with pictures and not just with words. And the political side of it is exactly what tim said. Trump wanted it so badly. He announced infrastructure week literally every week was infrastructure week. It became a joke. Tim miller, basil, donna. Donna, you stick around. Thank you for spending time with us today. Coming up for us, you can aadd serial defamer to the list of things we say about donald trump. The expresident drudging up his old attacks on e. Jean carroll. That storys next. Arroll that storys next. [paparazzi taking pictures] introducing, neds plaque psoriasis. Ned, ned, who are you wearing . He thinks his flaky red patches are all people see otezla is the 1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. Ned . Otezla can help you get clearer skin, and reduce itching and flaking. With no routine blood tests required. Doctors have been prescribing otezla for nearly a decade. Otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis. Dont use otezla if youre allergic to it. Serious allergic reactions can happen. Otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. Some people taking otezla had depression, suicidal thoughts or weight loss. Upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. With clearer skin movie night, is a groovy night live in the moment. Ask your doctor about otezla. What did we do before viasat Satellite Internet . Well. We borrowed. Yes . We borrowed. We borrowed the internet. Wed borrow from the library, the local coffee shop, our friends down the road. I think i got a strong signal here. But that was before viasat came out with all their new plans. Yup. Lots of internet now. Plenty for everyone. No more borrowing. More data. Faster speeds. Available where you live. Learn more about our plans at viasat. Com. I just got a review, and has there ever been a worse host than jimmy kimmel at the oscars . His opening was that of a less than average person trying too hard to be something which he is not and never can be. Get rid of kimmel and perhaps replace him with another washed up but cheap abc talent. See if you can get which former president just posted that on truth social. Anyone . No . Well, thank you, president trump. Thank you for watching. Im surprised youre still isnt it past your jail time . The hate watching is a thing. We all know that around here too. Hi again, everyone. Wasnt that good . Its 5 00 in new york. What a moment. That was last Nights Academy awards. A moment that was so amusing because it just got right at the truth of trump. Trump hasnt been sentenced to prison yet hes facing a whopping 91 Felony Counts across four criminal cases, the first of which goes to trial two weeks from today. In that case he was charged with 34 counts of falsifying Business Records each carrying a maximum sentence of four years. But trumps legal battles dont stop there. Two massive civil trials of his have wrapped in recent months and while their penalties do not include any jail time hes looking at some huge, huge fines. He was found liable for fraud in the state of new york, where he needs to pay nearly half a billion dollars. And just before that he was found liable for sexual abuse and defamation when it came to writer e. Jean carrolls cases. Trump posted a 91. 6 million bond on friday in the carroll case, a sum of money that for a normal person would give one pause from doing the thing that got them in that much trouble in the first place, speaking out against her, defaming her again. But as we know, trump is no normal defendant or person. Over the weekend he repeated the same claims about her that got him in trouble in the first place at a rally in georgia. Trump said again that he didnt know carroll and that her accusation was false. And just this morning during a phoner On Cnbc Trump referred to her as miss bergdorf goodman, alluding to the Department Store where carroll says he sexually assaulted her. That comment came mere hours before carrolls attorney, robbie kaplan, notified the judge that they agreed to fridays bond payment. Now, kaplan did not directly address the latest comments from trump but said in a separate statement this. The statute of limitations for defamation in most jurisdictions is between one and three years. As we said after the last jury verdict, we continue to monitor every statement that donald trump makes about our client, e. Jean carroll. Heres what she said after e. Jeans second trial ended. You are confident he wont do it again. What happens if he does . I cant be confident about anything donald trump does. All options are on the table. What does that mean . If we have to bring another case, well bring another case. Its just going to be more money. More money. As attorney George Conway points out, trumps latest comments about carroll could present trouble for the expresident. He writes this. The fact that trump libelled e. Jean carroll on cnbc is highly significant for a procedural reason in addition to a substantive one. Were e. Jean to sue trump just for the speech he gave in Northwest Georgia the other day, she would have had to sue in the u. S. District court for the Northern District of georgia. But now that he libelled her on squawk box, which is anchored in manhattan, she may now sue in the u. S. District court for the Southern District of new york. If she does that, the case would be assigned to judge lewis kaplan as a case related to the earlier two cases that produced 88. 3 million in damages awards. Donald trump continuing to step in it by defaming e. Jean carroll even after paying a bond of more than 90 million is where we begin the hour with some of our most favorite reporters and friends. Former top official at the Department Of Justice and msnbc legal analyst Andrew Weissmann is here. With me at the table msnbc Legal Correspondent lisa rubins back. And former democratic congresswoman Donna Edwards is still with us. Andrew weissmann, i start with you. Take us to law school. Whats going on . At Roberta Kaplans Conference Room table. Well, you know, i just i want to step back first to big picture, which is donald trump is really running as an outlaw. Thats so true. He is running in the same way that john gotti, the former boss of the gambino family, john gottis defense was not that i didnt do it, it was basically whats it to you . Why do you care . And the continued statements that could form another Defamation Suit is basically im incorrigible, my base doesnt care and im going to continue doing it. And both what youre seeing in the civil e. Jean carroll case, what youre seeing with the desperate attempts to avoid a criminal trial are all part of the same sort of presentation, which is i am just presenting my spin, my disinformation, My Unchecked Invective and i dont want to be ever in a forum, in a courtroom where facts and law matter. And thats why youre seeing these sort of crazy Immunity Motions being made for cases that were brought the gravamen is before he was president. Cases where the gravamen is after he was president saying wait a second, i cant ever be sued. And i think that with respect to these statements i think George Conway has it exactly right. It will be this basically could be a great annuity for both e. Jean carroll and her law firm because if he continues making these statements and especially if he is making them before in the Southern District of new york weve seen this movie. We know how this ends because we saw the second trial and theres no reason to think that there would be any different. Other than remember, what the jury is asked is what is the sum of money that would get him to stop . And so if it went from 5 million the first time around to 85 the second time around, theres no reason to think its not going to continue that exponential trajectory in terms of the consequences for him. So im going to deal with your brilliant political analysis in a minute. Because that hes running as an outlaw is so astute but i want to stay with your legal mind. As a prosecutor what is the profile of someone who cant be regulated by financial penalties . Well, this is where there is one more thing that the parties can do. And this was something that you saw a little bit in the judge Engoron Civil Case brought by the attorney general, which was barring donald trump for a period of time from doing business in new york. And that is in the form of whats called injunctive relief, meaning that money is not going to be sufficient to protect the victims here. And that kind of relief, that injunction saying you know what, you now need to just clam up, thats polite terminology and not exactly legal terminology, that was something that was sought by ruby freeman and shaye moss with respect to Rudy Giuliani in connection with their Defamation Case which they won. But then Rudy Giuliani declared bankruptcy. But that issue of whether at some point youre going to have some sort of injunction against the former president to stop him from defaming e. Jean carroll i find very tantalizing as a prospect. Just remember, if the former president were to violate an injunction that all sorts of sanctions can come up at that point including jail. If you are if you violate intentionally a court order, that is contempt of court. That is the kind of thing which of Course Courts dont like to do. But at some point when youve got a victim like e. Jean carroll, who is remember, a jury found shes not only been repeatedly defamed, she was sexually assaulted. There was one and only one victim in that case, and it is e. Jean carroll, as has been found by a court of law. So at some point it will be interesting to see whether they take that step of seeking an injunction, not just continued damages, which clearly are not working. E. Jean carroll is such a fascinating figure. And the abuse that shes had to withstand from trump not just in the Dressing Room but in an ongoing way is staggering. And heres nancy mace piling on as well, basically saying Rape Adjudicated in the civil court isnt rape at all. Im not going to sit here on your show and be asked a question meant to shame me about another potential rape victim. Im not going to do that. Its actually not about shaming you. Its a question about donald trump. Youve endorsed donald trump for president. Donald trump has been found liable for rape by a jury. Donald trump has been found liable for defaming the victim of that rape by a jury. Its been affirmed by a judge it was not a Criminal Court case, number one. Number two, i live with shame. And youre asking me a question about my political choices trying to shame me as a rape victim and i find it disgusting. This is why women wont come forward. Women wont come forward because theyre defamed by those who perpetrate rape. They are judged and theyre shamed. Youre trying to shame me this morning. Im not shaming you at all i told my story. It took me 25 years to tell my story. I was judged for it. Im still judged for it today. I asked you a very simple question bsh. Youre shaming me for my political choices. Im asking you a question about why you endorse someone whos been found liable for rape. It was not a Criminal Court. So many women who are victims of this crime do not reach the point where the people who rape them ever pay any price in a civil or Criminal Court of law because of people denying the truth of the crime. And i think e. Jean carroll dealt with this beautifully. She tweeted this. Thank you, george stephanopoulos, for valentinely defending me. I wish representative nancy mace well and i salute all survivors for their strength, endurance and holding on to their sanity. Which was a beautiful thing to say. But e. Jean carroll shouldnt have to rely on a journalist defending her. And this is the sort of postfact america that trump forces all his supporters to live in, where nancy mace is i dont even know what she was trying to say, that a rape conviction in civil court, a rape judgment isnt a judgment at all . Its nonsensical. Well, first of all, i want to say what i think nancy mace is doing, you know this better than anyone, nicolle, as a coms professional, is message adherence. Right . She was trying to say nothing by continuing to advance her narrative about youre trying to shame me. What she was trying not to do was answer a very legitimate question posed to her as somebody whos advocated for victims of Sexual Assault and rape. How do you square your support of donald trump and the advocacy that you have done on behalf of yourself and hundreds of thousands of other victims of rape and Sexual Assault . Thats a legitimate question for any prominent woman who supports donald trump laet loan one who publicly identifies herself as a victim of Sexual Assault. I have deepest empathy for nancy mace and what shes gone through. I dont believe that she has a pass on what was indeed a legitimate question from george stephanopoulos. And i agree with you, e. Jean carroll shouldnt have to rely on george stephanopoulos. But i also want to suggest to you e. Jean carroll doesnt need anyone to rescue her. E. Jean carroll at 80plus years old has more strength than almost anyone id met in my entire life. Id be hard pressed to come up with someone that ive met that has more fortitude than e. Jean carroll has in one of her fingers. Thats absolutely right. I mean, she sat at this table. Shes stunning in her steeliness. And its disgusting that in 2024 we still have to talk around and around the bush about what the definition of rape is or what the judgment of rape is. And the republicans have put themselves in this position of having to twist themselves around and around. But the die was cast when the access Hollywood Tape came out. And frankly i bring that up because it entered into this trial. It did. Because he was describing the act that he was found liable for basically. Right. And i think whats happened here is especially for republican women they cant figure out how to square that it cant be squared. Thats the point. It cant be. And so they dance around all of this, defending a man that they know is a sexual predator. Thats what he is. And hes demonstrated that over and over again. Nancy mace knows that, but she also knows that she was seeking that trump endorsement. And what happened over this last weekend . She got it. So finding a political end for something that she knows is wrong. So i think that, you know, in listening to nancy mace, i mean, she just tried to go all around that circle trying to figure out how she could answer without ever answering. And this is the dilemma that all these republicans find themselves in. Defending somebody who is a law breaker, whos lawless and whos a sexual predator. I want to come back to your political analysis, Andrew Weissmann, because im determined to pull you in too to doing double duty as our legal scholar in our analyst. Just since weve been on the air based on new reporting from jim sciutto in his new book, we learned about the depths of Donald Trumps admiration for hitler. You just made a very legitimate defensible sort of description of his embrace of his own rule and sort of judgmentbreaking behavior, calling him an outlaw. And then that kimmel clip, i mean, that is the ultimate sort of loser hate watching a crowd that he smears hollywood regularly. What is he even doing watching the oscars . And kimmel gets the better of him over and over again as he reads that, and everyone in the room is laughing at trump. To run as sort of a party pooper loser, hate watcher people dont like him, an outlaw and hitler lover says something really unbelievable as we sit here in march of an election year. Well, to tie those two thoughts together in terminals of what weve been talking about in terms of nancy race and what hes been doing and how hes been portraying himself is he people so debase themselves and he has debased the country in terms of how he behaves but then the fact that it is embraced, that somebody who was the victim of Sexual Assault and rape has to still then figure out how im going to sort of embrace this conduct and this person, and you see it in the country. I really cant believe that theres a majority of this country that thinks that you want the president of the United States to be teasing people, whether its a journalist as he did when he ran the first time, or the current president in terms of a stutter and overcoming that, and this sort of childlike, childish bullying behavior, its so demeaning to people and people in embracing it are demeaning themselves. And in terms of where the country is, because there are always going to be people like donald trump, but its so disheartening in terms of who we are and what weve become where i think all of us when we grew up and were thinking of the president regardless of whether it was a democrat or republican, that was somebody you looked up to. And there was respect for the office. And that is everything were talking about is this problem of what hes doing for the country and the reflection back on what it means about us. So true. All right. No ones going anywhere. When we come back, two weeks to go before Jury Selection is set to begin in the disgraced expresident s first criminal trial. Once again hes doing whatever he can do to delay that and to block the Hush Money Trial in new york from ever even starting. Well tell you about that next. And later, our series American Autocracy it could happen here. We will be joined by the The Legendary hes just a legend. Hes also a legendary documentary filmmaker, ken burns. He has chronicled how america responded in the 30s to the rise of adolf hitler. Deadline white house continues after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. Se continues after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. Power e trades awardwinning trading app makes trading easier. With its customizable options chain, easytouse tools and Paper Trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. E trade from Morgan Stanley power e trades easytouse tools make complex trading less complicated. Custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an Earnings Tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. E trade from Morgan Stanley tech Cracked Windshield . Make it easy and schedule with safelite, and stay on top of the market. Because you can track us and see exactly when well be there. Woman i have a few more minutes. Lets go tech vo thats service that fits your schedule. Go to safelite. Com. Singers safelite repair, safelite replace. Youre probably not easily persuaded to switch mobile providers for your business. But what if we told you its possible that Comcast Business mobile can save you up to 75 a year on your wireless bill versus the big three carriers . You can get two unlimited lines for just 30 each month. All in the most reliable 5g mobile Network Nationwide wireless that works for you. Switch to Comcast Business mobile and save big with up to 500 off an eligible samsung device with a qualifying tradein. Dont wait call, click or visit an xfinity store. We are exactly two weeks out from the scheduled start of Donald Trumps first, possibly only criminal trial, its the one in new york, and the expresident seeking to derail it and delay it by any and all means possible. In Court Documents filed today his lawyers argued that Manhattan District Attorney alvin braggs case against donald trump should be paused until the Supreme Court weighs in on the scope of his socalled president ial immunity. They are set to hear arguments on that issue on april 25th. Trumps lawyers argue that prosecutors have suggested that they will introduce, quote, several types of evidence that implicate the concept of official acts for purposes of president ial immunity. Part of the potential evidence that they argue should be precluded from being used at trial include trumps public statements about Michael Cohen because, they argue, he made those statements in his official capacity as president. Were back with andrew, lisa and donna. Lisa, translate. This is a hail mary to end all hail marys. Weve got Jury Selection starting in two weeks. But more importantly, nicolle, i just want to take a step back and let our viewers know, donald trump waived an Immunity Defense in this case months and months and months ago. He tried to float it in trying to get his case removed to Federal Court. It was soundly rejected by a federal judge. He initially tried to appeal. And when he realized that that appeal would conflict with arguments he was advancing in the 14th Amendment cases he withdrew that appeal last november. And now suddenly two weeks until the start of Jury Selection hes not saying hes immune from the entire suit because he knows hes waived that argument. What hes saying is because the state intends to introduce evidence about statements that he made when he was already president this court should wait to hear the scope of his Immunity Defense if any. We know that Oral Argument is not until april 25th. There is no valid president ial Immunity Defense as applied to trumps tweets about Michael Cohen, for example. In fact, the entire case is about personal acts. Things that donald trump did to disguise the fact that he had engaged in Campaign Finance violations with Michael Cohen and others including the folks at the national enquirer. There is Nothing Official about that. When you are acting in your capacity as a candidate and thereafter to cover up what you did as a candidate, thats inherently not official. And yet they are making this horribly specious argument and at the same time telling judge Aileen Cannon in florida that they need more time in her case. Why . Because theyre going to trial on march 25th as they attempt to adjourn it. They are playing judges off of each other with a sort of casualness thats almost breathtaking. I guess, andrew, ive stopped asking why they do it because its clear that its working. Will this work . I agree with you, this is one where you know, as Defense Counsel if theres like a 1 chance that something might work, assuming that you have a good faith basis, you may make the argument. With judge cannon its working. With the Supreme Court it is working. I do not think it will work with judge merchant. That is the judge whos overseeing the new york criminal case. But im sure theyre going to appeal his ruling and see if they can get the case stayed, which just to be clear is not the action of an innocent person. Someone running for office would normally want to clear her name, would not be sitting there saying i dont want a criminal trial. Theyd be saying i didnt do anything wrong and i want my day in court. So here youve got the reverse. Whether its jack smith in the d. C. Case or the maralago case or alvin bragg in the new york case. Theyre all wanting a day in court. Thats actually providing the defendant process. They want to give the defendant his day in court. And donald trump is saying whoa, i dont want my day in court, i do not want to have a forum where the facts and the law will matter, im happy to engage in adjectives and adverbs and just what i say about the case, i do not need people to hear any other story. His public statements arent even to really deny the facts of any of these issues that hes facing legally. Well, this is what we expected of donald trump and especially as these cases emerged in all these different jurisdictions, that he would use his ability to play these cases off of one another, to play the judges off of one another, and to continue to make his argument publicly because he knows its working for him politically. So no surprise there. But i think the challenge is going to be how to figure out how to get one of these cases into a courthouse by before the election rolls around. And it may be this March 24th Date is the one to do that. Andrew, i think nikki haley started publicly talking about the need to try trump for his alleged crimes. Chris christies campaign i believe had some polling that showed that if convicted by any of these in any of these trials that the bottom falls out of his support. You look at how hard hes fought not to be on trial anywhere. I mean, what do you what does the Supreme Court say its reasoning it for hearing, as lisa just heard, a specious legal argument about immunity . I mean, this is absolutely stepping into something that trump is telling all of us he doesnt want to happen. He doesnt want to face any accountability in the legal system, as anybody else would, as his own followers did for their crimes on january 6th. What is The Other Side of the equation sort of say to itself or say in Law School Lectures or in dark rooms or, i dont know, wherever people like that hang out . So there are sort of two issues. Theres the issue of the new york case and the motion that was just made. I am confident that the judge the lowest court, The Trial Court will say no. But then theres the issue of whether some higher court up to and including the Supreme Court would stay the case based on the arguments. These are much, much more frivolous, as lisa has pointed out. But to your point about why is the Supreme Court doing what its doing, unfortunately, i think that the answer to that is although whats before that court is just the issue of president ial immunity, thats an important issue, but thats one that both sides should want to have decided quickly. The whole point of it being heard now is because and not waiting for a trial is because both sides normally have an interest in having that decided very quickly because the government obviously wants to get through that and go to trial. The defense usually is saying Donald Trumps saying i should not be under indictment at all, i should not have a gag order thats hurting me from campaigning. So he should want it quickly. But i think what he is doing and what the Supreme Court has abetted here is not having a trial at all, by staying is really not looking at the issue before them but looking at the big picture, which is not actually having a forum to hear this case. But i do think with respect to the new york case it is a much harder argument for the Supreme Court, for some Federal Court to step in and say that these charges, what is the actual charges, do not relate in any way to conduct that donald trump took in his official capacity as president of the United States. It is simply not the case that paying hush money to a porn star to keep information from getting to the public in a campaign remember, that was the goal, to get it out of the Public Discourse in the campaign. That is not a president ial function. And it will be very hard for anyone to make that argument. And using evidence that comes from a time frame that donald trump was president is not something that is precluded just because you happen to be president. Any more than if he was president and said i sexually assaulted e. Jean carroll or i paid hush money to a porn star, the fact that he said it while president does not make it immune from coming into evidence. Do you think Andrew Weissmann 2024 ten years ago could have imagined writing the sentence writing your hush money checks from the oval does not constitute an official act to any cable news could you imagine having this conversation ten years ago, Andrew Weissmann . No, i could not. This is but i also, nicolle, didnt think i would be in a situation where the country is in the shape its in where were having this kind of conversation yeah, i only laugh so i dont cry. Yeah. I only laugh so i dont cry. But we need indeed your Brilliant Minds to articulate to me like me that arent lawyers that your lush money checks paid through Michael Cohen who went to jail so you didnt have to its great clarity for me. But sometimes i just have to shout out from earth one that omfg. When we come back, we will continue our series on American Autocracy, it could happen here. We will be joined by The Legendary Documentary Filmmaker Ken Burns who traced the history of americas response to the rise of nazi germany in the 30s. You dont want to miss this. Stay with us. You dont want to. Stay with us arting a business is never easy, but starting it eight months pregnant. Thats a different story. I couldnt slow down. We were starting a business from the ground up. People were showing up left and right. And so did our Business Needs the chase ink card made it easy. When you go for Something Big like this, your kids see that. And they believe they can do the same. Earn unlimited 1. 5 cash back on every purchase with the chase ink business unlimited card. Make more of whats yours. Its time. Yes, the time has come for a fresh approach to dog food. Everyday more dog people are deciding its time to quit the kibble and feed their dogs fresh food from the farmers dog. Made by vets and delivered right to your door precisely portioned for your dogs needs. Its an idea whose time has come. Hi, im janice, and i lost 172 pounds on golo. When i was a teenager i had some severe trauma in my life and i turned to food for comfort. A friend told me that i was the only one holding me back from being as beautiful on the outside as i am the inside. Once i saw golo was working, i felt this rush, i just had to keep going. A lot of people think no pain no gain, but with golo it is so easy. When i look in the mirror, i dont even recognize myself. Golo really works. In january 1941 Franklin Roosevelt came to this chamber to speak to the nation. He said, i address you at a moment unprecedented in the history of the union. Hitler was on the march. War was raging in europe. President roosevelts purpose was to wake up congress and alert the American People that this was no ordinary time. Not since fdr has an american president felt the need to start the State Of The Union by Talking About Hitler and nazi germany. Yet that was thursday night. Here we are. Thanks to Donald Trumps obsession with dictators past and present, including hitler. Donald trump allegedly believed hitler, quote, did some good things. Were learning more about that today. Its clear that now if you signal youre kind of okay with hitler instead of being disqualified, instead of the country falling into a debate about whether you should be replaced on the republican ticket, it will be tolerated or maybe even celebrated by the base of the Republican Party and all of trumps enablers. The sudden bout of indifference or amnesia about the clear and present danger trumps embrace of dictators poses to all of us is something history reminds us we do at our own peril. Its something weve been exploring and digging into in our series American Autocracy it could happen here. This threat, this specific threat of history repeating itself, has been hauntingly explained by an American Hero named guy stern. Guy stern escaped nazi germany at the age of 15 only to return as a member of The Legendary ritchie boys. Now, the ritchie boys were a secret american Intelligence Unit many of whom, like stern, were germanborn jews who used their knowledge of the german language and german culture to interrogate captured nazi soldiers. The ritchie boys were responsible for most of the combat intelligence the United States got from the front lines. Stern was awarded the bronze star. But his entire family perished at the hands of the nazis. Guy stern passed away in december at the age of 101. But he never stopped warning us about forgetting these lessons, about the danger of forgetting the lessons we learn from history. This is what he told our Friend Filmmaker ken burns. We have seen the nadir of Human Behavior and we have no guarantee that evil wont recur. If we can make that clear and graphic and understandable, not as something to imitate but as a warning of what can happen to human beings, then perhaps we have one shield against its recurrence. One shield. Joining us now, Emmy Awardwinning filmmaker, documentarian, weve called you a legend already, well do it to your face. Ken burns, were so glad youre here. Im so glad to be with you. Welcome back, nicolle. We missed you. Thank you. Thank you so much. I mean, this maybe is all that we should be doing, right . Maybe all we should be doing is using our space to remind people what history teaches us. In a place where theres so much disinformation and misinformation theres also bullying and making the other of somebody, we are desperately in need of the kind of cleareyed view of guy stern. He lived to be 101 because he had escaped. Hed been the one selected from his family to go to the United States to try to get the others out. He couldnt get them out. He joined the army. He went he lost everybody. And he has borne witness to that. Just back up a little bit. You were asking andrew a really good question. Ten years ago could you have thought of this . Lets say in 1932 you wanted to be in the most civilized, cosmopolitan place on the planet, you know, where everything was new in literature, in architecture, in music, in cinema, in ideas. There would be no better place in 1932 than berlin. The next january, not so much. And so we realize how precipitously we fall. Im now working on a film, i mean, this one in guys words continue to resonate with us and were talking about it daily, but weve been working on a film about the american revolution, like where we came from, where we are born. And for me its a kind of Reverse Engineering that can take place. A few lines past the famous lines of the declaration we know and Quote The Second Sentence Jefferson has said all experience has shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer while evils are sufferable. What hes saying there to all of us is that heretofore all human beings have been subjects. Theyve been under authoritarian rule. And were suggesting that there could be a new version of this, that you could be actually a thing called a citizen instead of a subject, that you could be not a superstitious peasant filled with that misinformation, that disinformation, that bullying, but you could be something else. Thats the promise of the United States. It didnt fulfill it at any point for everyone, but we were at the very beginning wrestling with the noblest aspirations of humankind. And they had nothing to do with authoritarianism. And now we find ourselves in this improbable please wake me from this Nightmare Dream that these things are possible here. It can happen here. And we do have the momentum of most of Human Existence to show that it could, that we have been an outlier and then a kind of inspirer of others to resist this tide and that we have held high in washingtons resigning his military commission, in him resigning from the not leaving after two terms, of this idea that the highest office in the land is a citizen. But there are people and tendencies, human nature doesnt change, history doesnt repeat itself but human nature doesnt change, and so we find people relentlessly drawn to these power moves, this bullying, this dissonance, the vulgarity that authoritarianism is. To take guy sterns story and the exquisite clip of him and his warning, i mean, it just it brings tears to my eyes. At the end of a broadcast that started with jim sciuttos new reporting about john kelly having to sit trump down and say you can never say hitler did good things. Because were not just talking about right . Were talking about our obligations as citizens. Were not just talking about citizens. Were talking about someone who ended americas tradition of a peaceful transfer of power. How did we get right here . Yeah, ive asked myself this question through all of the studies. You know, there have been demagogues, dangerous ones, in the history of the United States. Huey long for one. I made a film about him 40 years ago. But he was a populist who actually delivered to the poor. We have somebody who delivered a tax break to his wealthy friends and then stacked the Supreme Court with people who would vote his way on divisive issues that set everybody against themselves. So one of the biggest things in authoritarianism is you have to create an enemy, a them. Its not us, the United States, capital, lower case us, and also we and our. Its always them and theyre doing Something Like that. So weve got this situation. So i think somewhere along the line the Republican Party when communism disappeared at the end of the 80s and the early 90s lost its enemy. And when you didnt have something to make an enemy of, who did they turn to . Bill clinton. And then later by extension all democrats. Distracted by terrorism, distracted by other things in which we could force our gaze outward. But when youve created a circumstance where you have got a large segment of the population believing that the opposite party are actually evil, in some cases bloodsucking pedophiles, that people actually believe, thats the end of civil discourse. Thats the end of bipartisanship. Thats the end of compromise. And then the biproduct of that is that slippery slope that permits you to have more restrictive laws, more fundamentalist laws. Its the only things in sort of a manachean black and white. When we know how complex and diverse and rich our society is. And then as our founders feared from the very beginning they tried to reverse engineer too, well, what if somebody tries to do this, what if they do this, they were always worried about a demagogue who would come along and exploit this. And so when a demagogue comes along and exploits this every alarm must be going off. Youre talking about weeping for your i want my country back. I want why is it one of the first things, you can judge somebody by the company they keep. And the four horsemen of the apocalypse, you know, orban and putin and xi and kim jong un. You know, these are repressive, murderous individuals. And orban takes over the press, eliminates dissenting parties, coopts the courts. And so what your discussions have been most of the day is about delays in courts, about peaceful transfer of power, about the independence of that judiciary. And so theres this is all the playbook of authorityians for as long as there have been authoritarians. And we ought to be standing in every Middlesex Village and town and screaming at the loudest that this is not us. Yeah. I want to put to you a question on The Other Side of a break that i put to liz cheney, that i put to people who study autocracies, about where we are in our slide and can we still can we still make a uturn. Dont go anywhere. We have to fit in a quick break. Ken burns will be right back with us. Ken burns will be right back with us. [paparazzi taking pictures] introducing, neds plaque psoriasis. Ned, ned, who are you wearing . He thinks his flaky red patches are all people see otezla is the 1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. Ned . Otezla can help you get clearer skin, and reduce itching and flaking. With no routine blood tests required. Doctors have been prescribing otezla for nearly a decade. Otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis. Dont use otezla if youre allergic to it. Serious allergic reactions can happen. Otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. Some people taking otezla had depression, suicidal thoughts or weight loss. Upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. With clearer skin movie night, is a groovy night live in the moment. Ask your doctor about otezla. Businesses go further with 5g solutions. Thats why they choose tmobile for business. Pga of america and tmobile are partnering on 5gpowered analytics to help improve player performance. Tmobiles Network Helps aaa stay connected nationwide. To get their members back on the road. And Las Vegas Grand Prix chose tmobile to help fuel operations for one of the Worlds Largest racing events. Now is the time to see what americas largest 5g network can do for your business. Love you. Have a good day, behave yourself. Like she goes to work at three in the afternoon and sometimes gets off at midnight. She works a lot, a whole lot. We dont get to eat in the early morning. We just wait till we get to the school. So, yeah. Right now here in america, millions of kids like victoria and andre live with hunger, and the need to help them has never been greater. When you join your friends, neighbors and me to support no kid hungry, youll help hungry kids get the food they need. If we want to take care of our children, then we have to feed them. Your gift of just 0. 63 a day, only 19 a month at helpnokidhungry. Org right now will help provide healthy meals and hope. We want our children to grow and thrive and to just not have to worry and face themselves with the struggles that we endure. Nobody wants that for their children. Like if these programs didnt exist me and aj, we wouldnt probably get lunch at all. Please call or go online right now with your gift of just 19 a month. And when you use your credit card, youll receive this limited edition tshirt to show youre part of the team thats helping feed kids and change lives. If youre coming in hungry, theres no way you can listen to me teach, do this activity, work with this group. So starting their day with breakfast and ending their day with this big, beautiful snack is pretty incredible. Whether kids are learning at school or at home, your support will ensure they get the healthy meals they need to thrive. Because when you help feed kids, you feed their hopes, their dreams, and futures. Kids need you now more than ever. So please call this number right now to join me in helping hungry kids or go online to helpnokidhungry. Org and help feed hungry kids today. Were back now with emmywinning documentarian ken burns, part of our ongoing series American Autocracy it could happen here. Ken, sue gordon, whos a former Deputy Director of national intelligence, said something at our table not on the air, but i dont think shed mind if i shared this with you. She said, you know and shes one of these people who loves her country, is a public servant, not a political player at this point i want to make it to 250. The revolution started in 75 and our sfim going to come out in 25, the 250th anniversary of the beginning of the war. Sliding in under the tag, but you know, weve got to do it. Theres a wonderful character weve met in the course of doing the american revolution, thats thomas payne who comes from england kind of a failure in everything except understanding what exactlyyt this business is. And he said man finds that the strength and powers of despot mds consist wholly in the fear ofco resisting it and that in order to be free it is sufficient that he wills it. So theres a big challenge for us as there was back in 1776, is that we have to actually understand what the stakes are. And unfortunately, theres so much disinformation that we dont have that confidence. If everybody that voted for joe biden votes again then were homefree if theyre distributed the way they were distributed in georgia, pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan, and new hampshire, et cetera. But we dont have those assurances. And a lot of that has to do with this flirtation which you see everywhere in the world for the trains to run on time. And what will it take for us to recapture our birthright, which was this idea we didnt extend to everyone, not women, not native americans, not blacks enslaved or free, but we initiated this series of revolutions that took place that spread over theth world. And nowre we see a great and i suppose lawful retrenchment as those interests. People talk about the deep state. It in f. There was a deep state donald trump would have disappeared a t long time ago, right . The deep state are just the moneyed interests and the people who want the simple way, the shortest distance between points. And that doesnt work in a democracy when we have so manya competing interests. Just be on guard for these things. Finally at the end of the day if you dont vote and you wake up having lost this, its on us. Its on us. I got chills. G can we continue to have these conversations this year . Ot yeah, yeah. No, no, no. We have to, keep having the conversations to talk about it. Its so interesting. You know, i was reading up on huey long thinking about talkin to you about this demagoguery that nonetheless people in louisiana would sayat oh, hes delivering good to the poor and hospitals and roads and bridges andan he did all that infrastructure, stuff that joe biden is doing and is being ridiculed and voted against though people are happy to go back to their districts and take credit for it. But at one point he told a group of senators that a mob would attack the capitol bent on hanging themap from the rafters. And huey long said i have to determine, hueyid long said, whether i will stay and be hung with you or go out and lead the mob. Thats incredible. Its all in there, right . Nobody laughed. Its all in there. I mean, history doesnt repeat s itself, it rhymes. And thats what were hearing, are these dangerous, dangerous rhymes. And we are obligated to sort of wakeat up and really sort of se who this man is, what the situation is, and save our democracy. And only we can do it. It happens at the ballot box. All right. B were going to continue to call on you. Whenever i ask people on live tv its hard to say no. Soto well continue to call on you. Thank you so much for starting the conversation with us today. There. L be kens new digital platform unumla allows you to navigate American History through u ken vast body of awardwinning films. A quick break for us. Well be right back. Lms. A quick break for us well be right back. The will states that mr. Marbles will receive everything he needs in perpetuity thanks to autoship from chewy. I always loved that old man. And he gets the summer house. What . Save 35 off your first autoship order. At chewy. You need tmobile. Home internet with 5g. Wait tmobile has Home Internet . What a feeling to have tmobile now kayak. No way. Why would i use kayak to compare hundreds of travel sites at what once . Ling kayak. I like to do things myself. I do my own searching. It isnt efficient. Use kayak. I cant trust anything else to do the job right. Aaaaaaaahhhh kayak. Search one and done. Theyre not really interested in negotiating in the sense of compromise right now. If you want to get to a serious negotiation, you have to help the ukrainians demonstrate that putins wrong in his notion that time is on his side. That was just last hour. That was cia that funding remains in limbo up on capitol hill with President Joe Biden urging lawmakers to finally get it passed. Well stay on this story and well be right back. This story d well be right back. Numberone motorcycle insurer. But do you have to wedge it into everything . What . I dont do that. This reminds me of my bike. The wolf was about the size of my new motorcycle. Have you seen it, by the way . Happy birthday, grandma really . Look how the brushstrokes follow the line of the gas tank. Hey hey brought my plusone. Jamie . Okay yall we got ten orders coming in. Big orders starting a business is never easy, but starting it eight months pregnant. Thats a different story. I couldnt slow down. We were starting a business from the ground up. People were showing up left and right. And so did our Business Needs the chase ink card made it easy. When you go for Something Big like this, your kids see that. And they believe they can do the same. Earn unlimited 1. 5 cash back on every purchase with the chase ink business unlimited card. Make more of whats yours. You can make money the hard way as a bullfighter with the chase ink business unlimited card. Or a human cannonball. Or save money the easy way, with xfinity mobile. Existing customers can get a free line of our most popular unlimited plan for a year not only will you Save Hundreds but youll also be joining millions who have connected to americas most reliable 5g network. Sure is a lot safer than becoming a stuntman for money. Get a free line of unlimited intro for a year when you buy one unlimited line. Visit xfinitymobile. Com today to learn more