Transcripts For MSNBCW Velshi 20240704

Major new developments as this week Have Cast Out On Wetherell sea trials of any kind anytime soon, in three of the four criminal cases against donald trump. Throughout his, life this now twice impeached, four times indicted express it, it has been known as able to just man who used every possible legal tactic to his advantage. And it may be working again. On whats, say the Supreme Court announced it will take up trumps appeal regarding his claims of absolute immunity. A motion filed in an effort to squash some of the criminal charges against him. Thats a claim that has little precedent in american history. Many legal experts have thrown cold water on the idea, and more importantly, all the Lower Court Judges who have heard the case so far have shot down trumps farfetched argument that the president is above the law. Nonetheless, the Supreme Court is scheduled hearings for april 22nd. 51 days from now. For some perspective on the timing, consider this. In april of 1974, Richard Nixon was presented with a subpoena to turn over some of his Tape Recordings to the Special Prosecutor investigating watergate. In may, Nixon Challenge that subpoena in District Court over executive privilege grounds and lost. And appeal was filed directly to the Supreme Court, asking it to give the final word on the matter. On may 31st, the Supreme Court agreed to take the case, bypassing the Court Of Appeals entirely. On june 24th, the Supreme Court issued a unanimous decision against dixon, telling him to surrender the taped to the Special Prosecutor. The amount of time between when the Supreme Court agreed to take the case and when it issued its decision on the nixon tapes, was, in total, 54 days. But with trumps Immunity Claim, we have to wait another 51 days just for the case to be heard. Not to be decided. The high court us moved on an expedited basis in the past, especially in matters of great urgency. In 2000, it resolved the bush v. Gore case, and effectively decided that years president ial race, just 35 days after election day. Make no mistake, this delay was a choice. Back in december, the special Prosecutor Jack Smith asked the Supreme Court to bypass the Court Of Appeals, in order to make, quote, intermediate definitive decision on the question of president ial immunity. As we saw with the nixon tapes, thats not an unprecedented nor and request. Especially on a matter of most national importance. But the Supreme Court tonight smiths request and sent the case to the Court Of Appeals instead. Then, even after the Court Of Appeals issued its ruling on february the six, the Supreme Court took 22 days just to announce it will wait another 51 days to hear the case. Its a decision that will have ripple effects, not just on trumps legal cases, but on americans to moxie itself. The federal january 6th case in d. C. Remains indefinitely paused until this particular question is resolved. Moreover, trump estimate a similar claim he is a mean for prosecution in florida, where hes facing criminal charges for improperly Holding On To Classified government records, and obstructing justice after he left the presidency. And that case could also get delayed as a result of the Supreme Court taking of trumps Immunity Claim. Theres technically a trial dates set for may in florida, but that is not expected to hold. The parties met in Court Yesterday a new trial date. That adjourns the new developments on that front. Ive seen this meanwhile, the elected case in georgia interrupt remarks over allegations that the District Attorney fani willis had an improper relationship with mason way, the Special Prosecutor she appointed. Hearing softened held over the past couple of weeks to determine if theyre actions compromise the case and the way, and the stakes are high. Willis and her team could be disqualified as a result, which would send the case into limbo. Justice delayed is justice denied. Thats usually a claim made by a defendant to complain the Justice System is moving too slowly for them. But delay has been trumps strategy throughout the city in the biceps and work. Up and Immunity Claim, also waiting for the Supreme Court to a ruling on the effort to disqualify trump from the ballot, and theres a third trump adjacent case the court does also scheduled to hear in april. Its called fisher v knighted states. Thats an appeal found by a january six rioter, that is asserted for a official proceeding that chance of bases that it does not apply to the conduct they. Trump has been charged with that day as well, and the outcome of that case could effectively for criminal charges that jack smiths filed against donald trump in the federal election interference case. With the election just eight months away, one hopes the Supreme Court is consultings calendar. Joining me now is catherine christian, Former Manhattans assist tricked the shooting attorney and msnbc legal analyst, and mary mccord, a foreign Acting Assistant General of the Department Of Justice and msnbc legal analyst, and host of the msnbc Pot Prosecuting donald trump podcast. Good morning to both of. You thank you for being with us. Mary, let me begin with you in the past the Supreme Court a second up big, important cases on an expedited basis. They bypass lower courts, but rule within a few weeks. Check smith understanding the importance of his federal cases, asked them to do just that back in december, and the court declined. Tell me why they declined that in case . Well you, know, i think they would say they declined at that time because it was also on an expedited Briefing Schedule in the d. C. Circuit, and the ordinary court for the Supreme Court to wait until the Circuit Courts, the courts of appeals, the federal courts of appeals, in a federal case, wait till the federal Court Of Appeals has ruled. At that time, the circuit, moving quickly, not knowing if the Supreme Court would take it and leapfrog them, said it highly expedited Briefing Schedule. I think that kind of gave the Supreme Court an excuse to say well, well wait to see the outcome of that. Then, the delay after that decision was rendered, as you indicated, first of, all a delay of almost two weeks after youve been the motions to file a stay, to state the results of the d. C. Circuit, which once against mr. Trump, you, know they took two more weeks just to even decide how to rule on that before taking the case, then, have set this for what is a faster than normal Briefing Schedule, but still, far, far slower than the kind of expedited Briefing Schedule they use just recently for the 14th amendment Section Three case. So, we dont even have to go back to nixon. We dont even have to go back to bush v. Gore together comparator. Look at how fast they scheduled that 14th amendment segment three disqualification case. They had briefing and from each side, in about a week, and it went to arguments. So, they have to know the impact this is having on the possibility of getting that case to trial. I suspect there are some disputes among justices on that court on the timing of this, but this is what we have. This is what we have to work with. Theres still a chance for the chance to get to trial before the election, but it really depends on what the Supreme Court does, how quickly they rule, after Hearing Arguments and whether they issue a definitive ruling, rejecting immunity from criminal prosecution from mr. Trump or whether they issue some sort of ruling that since the case back down to the District Court to make some initial determinations for example, about whether the alleged conduct was within the scope of the precedents official acts. That could delay things even further. I know thats really complicated, i can unpacked if theres time, but i doubt we need to move through. But its important that we discuss that, because its not an invented thing that these things take time. When something happens, you do have to give both parties time to read, to prepare, to write. Its not invented, but it does move slowly for a lot of people, catherine. In fact, judge tanya pin was presiding over that federal investigation, Election Interference Trial in d. C. She might have to make some tough decisions later this year, because if that Immunity Claim is not resolved before july, it might be the end of july, but as mary just said, if it has to go back to the appeals court, she might be left with the option to hold the trial late september, october, just weeks before the election. Perhaps, while early voting is already underway. The department, the prosecutors say thats okay. They are allowed to do that. But should they do that . I think we should, because the Department Of Justice rule really involves youre not supposed to announce an indictment. Youre not supposed to execute a Search Warrant within 60 days. This case wasnt died last year, and its been delayed for trial, and one could say, for legitimate reasons, because theres been an appeal. So, judge chutkan could, i think its highly unlikely, this trial is going to happen but the stars align, she could start it. Now, she has to give and i think she will give, in fairness, that 88 days for them to, the defense to prepare for trial. And have it scheduled. But they dont think she, as a judge, should be factoring in politics about whether this is going to hurt or harm either side. So, if the stars align and the trial can happen, and if the verdict is not going to come until after election day, so be it. She could make a decision. Mary, i want to stay granular on this. Your last sentence if youre less response was if the Supreme Court sends it back to the Circuit Court for something, tell me what that might mean and why. Actually, im talking a back all the way to judge chutkan, District Court. So, that issue in front of the Supreme Court now in this Immunity Case is the question that Supreme Court said it was takings weather and if so, to what extent, a former president is entitled to immunity from criminal prosecutions for actions taken within the scope of his official acts. Both lower courts, judge chutkan in the District Court in the d. C. Circuit, unanimously, three judges, rejected that mr. Trump as a former president , had any immunity from criminal prosecution, even for official acts. Remember, this is when we had a Question Judge panel asked. Got the president ordered s. E. A. L. Team six to execute a political opponent . But that be an official act . The answer from mr. Trumps attorney was basically, yes. So, those courts said you just dont have, you just dont have immunity from criminal prosecution, even for things within the scope of your official acts. The Supreme Court could agree with that, and if so, sent back down to start the trial. Make a disagree with that and say there could be immunity for certain actions taken within the scope of official acts, but right, now but lower courts, you didnt determine whether the Conduct Electricity Indictment wouldve not be within the scope of official act, so, you have to make that determination in the first place. If judge chutkan mix at the termination, and i think that something of a mix question, she determines it against him, mr. Trump could appeal that again, and were still talking about appeals before we get to trial. This is why i think we will see jack smith arguing, and people filing amicus briefs in his support, people like judge luttig, who already made this argument in an amicus brief arguing the court should not even take the case, you will be arguing, you dont have to boil the water. You dont have to decide whether, in every circumstance, a president would never be immune for the conduct an within special acts. When the actions that are alleged in the indictments are about overturning the results of an election and preventing that transfer of power, surely, that is not within the scope of the official acts of a president. This is a remarkably important point you make, because donald trump would like all the courts to believe that hes immune from everything, that is an official act, and there is the number of legal scholar saying that worry about that question. Worry about whether this question is the one we have to deal with. Catherine, the one case actually seems to have proceed fairly smoothly as the new york case. The trial for that is set to begin in a few weeks. Whats your sense of . That is that likely, or certain, to move forward . This plan, theres something that we havent imagine that Donald Trumps team could still possibly due to delay that . Now. I think will happen. Actually, in all trials, last minute things happen. People get sick. Witnesses suddenly get sick. So, barring any legitimate illness from any major party, that case will go. Thats a very straightforward case. There are 34 counts, but theyre all the same crime. Falsifying business records. The entries and the Trump Organization that were deemed to be Legal Expenses to michael cohen, and the prosecutor say no, they werent. They were payments to cover up the Porn Star Affair and mr. Trump had. We appreciate both of you. It sort of felt a little like im in the middle of a podcast, that kind of enjoyed that. Thank you to both of you for your remarkable expertise and your ability to share that with us. Catherine christian as a Former Manhattan assistant District Attorney and an msnbc legal analyst. Mary mccord, a former acting assistant attorney general at the bombardment of justice. All right, coming up, a dangerous effort to chip away at the Separation Of Church And State is moving out of the shadows. What you need to know about the conservative push to recast a key parts of the First Amendment, including the damage has already been done. First, rely on the ground in texas, where firefighters are working to contain the largest wildfire in the states history. Wildfire in the states history. Shingles. Some describe it as pulsing electric shocks or sharp, stabbing pains. This painful, blistering rash can disrupt your life for weeks. A pain so intense, you could miss out on family time. The virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. If youre 50 years or older, ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles. Power outages can be unpredictable, inconvenient, and disruptive to your life, posing a real threat to your familys comfort and safety. When the power goes out, you have no lights, no refrigeration, no heating or air conditioning. The winds are not letting up at all here. Were going to see some power outages. Number one thing to prepare for is extended power outages. 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The father of our girls. I see a public servant. A man who served under secretary clinton in the State Department. Where he took on the epidemic of violence against women in the congo. I see a fighter, a tenacious problemsolver. Who will go to congress and protect Abortion Rights and our democracy. Because he sees a Better Future for all of us. Im peter dixon and i i launched our campaign at this union hall. Approved this message. Lets go win this thing then we hit the road and never stopped. You shared with me your frustration at working harder to barely get by and afford a place to live. Your fears for our democracy and freedoms and your dreams for yourself, your family, and the future. It is not too late to realize those dreams. Im adam schiff, and i approve this message because together we can still get big things done. Heres to Getting Better with age. Heres to beating these two every thursday. Help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need. Without the stuff you dont. So, heres to now. Boost. If you spit blood when you brush, it could be the start of a domino effect. New parodontax active gum repair breath freshener. Clinically proven to help reverse the four signs of early gum disease. A new toothpaste from parodontax, the gum experts. Real piece, sustained piece, some kind of future, is more and more elusive as this becomes a humanitarian disaster. I mean, i would hate to surrender, ali, and thanks for having me. Hopelessness and despair. But i have to say, the headlines look bad and the trend lines dont look much better. My s real fear is that when thi war is over, and it will end, israelis and palestinians will look at one another and they are going to say the following. Its not that we dont understand you, is that we understand one another only too well. And youre going to end up with two traumatized communities. If your 14yearold palestinian or a 14yearold israeli, especially on the Palestinian Side Given whats happening in gaza, the last six months will scar you for the rest of your life. And im not hopeful, because i do not see, either on the israeli or palestinian side, the issue of remains to be determined. Kinds of leaders that are necessary to make the kinds of decisions. Getting to what you and i strongly believe in, which is a conflict israeli, palestinian problem. You know, there are people who have been on two sides of an argument about what solution should look like and when it should come. There are some people saying, to have one that would be to reward bad things that have happened, but when you read from this article that it just i mentioned in which you say, the 1973 almost every breakthrough in the aarab, Israeli Arena Wa proceeded by intense violence. The 1973 war lead to egyptian, israeli peace. Saddam husseins Invasion Of Kuwait produce the madrid Peace Conference on the first resulted in the oslow accords. But we may not be as fortunate this time around. Im going to take The Other Side of that argument. What could make us fortunate time around . What could get people to say, okay, bad things trigger Better Things to happen . Is there any likelihood that anyone involved sees that, not netanyahu, not the hamas leaders, but is there any view, way, that we can get there . I think its really hard to imagine tright now. The pain certainly exists, which would create urgency. If you had decisionmakers that actually were prepared to make decisions, and you cant escape the current reality, ali. As hard as i would like to try, both on the palestinian and ia israeli side, you do not have the kinds of leaders that are capable of making those decisions. In the three examples you cited, it was leadership on the israeli, egyptian, palestinian side, even our fight in its first oincarnation with a late Prime Minister in washington, i just dont see that now. That i is the real problem. But right now, lets be clear what were facing. Youve got to get an israeli, hamas agreement. Without that, you cant get the israelis to deescalate. You wont be able to serve humanitarian assistance in gaza and you cant even realistically begin to talk about the day after or the day after the day after. That critically is important and right now, based on my experience of middle east negotiations, they have two speeds. Slow and slower. I hope that by the beginning of ramadan, march 10th, its such a deal, hostage for prisoner releases, dewill, in fact, materialize. But its just too uncertain right now. You mentioned leadership in the places that can come from, the rsplaces thats not going t come from this particular instance. But you mention washington. There is a moment, arguably it has passed, but there is frustration with the Biden Administration from within the Biden Administration, amongst some democrats, about what to oc do with this now. Joe biden has never been a big fan of netanyahus. Seems very frustrated by the fact that he gave him the support he needed on october 7th and october 8th, and thereafter. And its not resulted in cooperation. What does biden do now . He is in what i call an investment trap. Tethered himself to israels war aims he cant now find a way to leverage both sides in an effort to get in this israeli, hamas deal. And i have to remind myself, its not one hand clapping. If there were no hostages, in my judgment, biden would be much better positioned to use the leverage that he does have over the most extreme right wing government in history in the state of israel. But there are hostages and thats the real problem here. Hamas understood this. 134 of the israelis estimate are no longer alive, either killed on october 7th, their bodies taken to gaza to trade, or they died in captivity. Its that critical issue element that human element, i think, that stands in the way of more effective american pressure. Its very hard for american with president , given the fact he needs netanyahus agreement, to do this hamas deal, to somehow now figuratively speaking declare war on benjamin netanyahu. Its not in the president s nature and practically, he has got to get this hostage deal. Without that, we dont have a policy. Aaron, im going to just keep on interviewing every few days, one day we are going to crack this and youre going to tell me, i see hope at the end of the tunnel, but we have not gotten there yet and i appreciate that tyoure completely honest with us tat all ontimes. Aaron david miller is a Senior Fellow At N the Carnegie Endowment for international peace, former, arab israeli new yorker at the State Department and author of several books including ththe much to promise land. Americas elusive search for arab, israeli peace. Coming up, the true story of the movement to tear down the wall between church and state in america. Rgic rctions can occur, even days after using. Most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. Ask about nurtec odt. Okay, so heres my most requested hack for stubborn odors. Youll need vinegar, a large salad bowl and. Oh, hi have you tried tide fabric rinse . It works after your detergent to fight deep odors 3 times better than detergent alone. I love that. Try tide fabric rinse. My Mental Health was much better. But i struggled with uncontrollable movements called td, tardive dyskinesia. Td can be caused by some Mental Health meds. And its unlikely to improve without treatment. 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It is a rare honor in this life to follow one of your heroes. And john luiz is one of my heroes. Now, i have to imagine that when a younger john lewis woke up that morning, 50 years ago, and made his way to brown chapel, heroics were not on his mind. A day like this was not on his mind. His nap sack stocked with an apple, a toothbrush, and a book on government. All you need for a night behind bars. John luiz led them out of the church on a mission to change america. That was president obama in 2015 marking the 50th Anniversary of what has become known as Bloody Sunday. America was change that day, when the late john lewis, and 600 other demonstrators, marched across the Edmund Pettus bridge in selma, alabama. They were peacefully protesting against Racial Discrimination in voting, but they were brutally attacked by state troopers. The images of the violence shocked the nation and galvanized the fight against racial injustice. It eventually led to the passage of the landmark Voting Rights act of 1965. This weekend, america will commemorate the 59th Anniversary of Bloody Sunday with the annual bridge crossing jubilee. Tomorrow, Reverend Al Sharpton will Host Politicsnation live from selma, alabama, to mark the anniversary of Bloody Sunday and to discuss the state of Voting Rights out of the president ial election. Watch politicsnation tomorrow, five pm eastern, on msnbc. We will be right back. Heres to Getting Better with age. Heres to beating these two every thursday. Help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need. Without the stuff you dont. So, heres to now. Boost. Everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. They want that Hollywood White smile. New sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24 7 sensitivity protection. I think its a great product. Its going to help a lot of patients. The virus that causes shingles is sleeping. In 99 of people over 50. Its lying dormant, waiting. And could reactivate. Shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. And it could wake at any time. Think youre not at risk for shingles . Its time to wake up. Because shingles could wake up in you. If youre over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. This week, the Alabama House and Senate Passed a series of bills to protect in vitro fertilization, or ivf, in the state. Which comes just two weeks after the state Supreme Court handed down a decision that declared that embryos, including cryogenically frozen embryos stored for ivf, have the same rights as children. The backlash to that ruling was swift. Ivf clinics across the state paused treatments out of fear of violating the law, under the new ruling. But within days, conservatives were backpedalling, calling on the state of alabama to protect ivf. So, moving with unusual haste, most of the Republican Controlled Senate and the house passed identical bills that Grant Citizens Immunity from civil or criminal liability if an embryo is destroyed. Now, as confusing and radical as the original ruling was, the Concurring Opinion from the alabama chief justice, tom parker, stands out is particularly notable. Chief Justice Parker wrote, in his concurrence, that alabama had a, quote, theologically based view of the sanctity of life adopted by the people of alabama and encompasses the following. If god made every person in his image to, each person therefore has a value that far exceeds the ability of human beings to calculate and, three, human life cannot be wrongfully destroyed without incurring the wrath of a holy god. Now, if youre surprised to see this kind of language in a legal opinion, perhaps you should not be. The very same day that the ivf ruling came down, chief Justice Parker appeared on a Video Podcast hosted by a Conservative Qanon believing self proclaimed prophet. God created government and the fact that we have let it go into the position of otherss heartbreaking for those of us who understand and we know it is for him. That is why he is calling and equipping people to step back into these mountains right now. Step back into these mountains right now. That is alabama chief Justice Parker. If you look closely, you would see what it says behind him. Restore the seven. Thats a reference to the seven mountains mandate or the seven mountains dominion, which is a christian evangelical and pentecost a belief that urges its followers to establish gods kingdom on earth by controlling the seven mountains of society. Family, religion, education, arts and entertainment, commerce, media and government, and as parker said, he believes that god created government, and that god is calling and equipping people to step back into those mountains of society. Now, this might sound fringe, but the beliefs behind the seven mountainside eulogy, and specifically the ideologically driven effort to get believers into powerful positions in our government, is not fringe at all. U. S. House Speaker Mike Johnson recently said that he believes the Separation Of Church And State is, quote, a misnomer. In an interview on cnbc, johnson said that he believes the founders did not want the government to encroach upon the church, now that they didnt want principles of faith to have influence on our public life, thats exactly the opposite, and quote. Shortly after he became speaker, johnson was apparently not aware that there was media in the room when he compared himself to moses while speaking about hiss ascension to the speakership in a speech to conservative lawmakers. This week, a State Senator in oklahoma made a statement about the death of a nonbinary teenager named next benedict, who was beaten in a School Bathroom the day before they died. The senator said, quote, we are going to fight to keep that filth out of the state of oklahoma because we are a christian state, and quote. Another Political Action group that follows similar beliefs called my god votes aims to rally believers to get involved in government and to vote for their endorsed candidates. The pastor who ran its inaugural event last month in houston started off by listing the many people who will be on the ballot during this primary, who were in attendance, including a candidate for congress, State Senators, state representatives, school board officials, and sheriffs. And we [inaudible] i want to start off by saying this is not a political [laughter] and i say that with all sincerity because what we are doing here tonights kingdom business. This is gods business. Those who serve an officer called Gods Ministers for good and it says that hes not a minister, he is a minister to execute wrath on those who practice evil. And so, we have a line of defense that we elect and put in office to execute rat. They call them gods avenger. All you are elected people, i want you to know you are gods avenger to execute against evil. So, thank you for serving in gods kingdom tonight. You are gods avenger to execute rat against evil. There have been rulings and bills in oklahoma, texas, utah, and idaho that allow those states to bring religious practices into Public Schools or to use public funds for religious schools. I could go on. There are seemingly endless examples of recent blurring of the line or oath carrying Down The Line between church and state. But our founders, the very first thing they decided to fix with the role of religion in this country, the First Amendment, written in 1791 reads, Congress Shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, which is when we normally associate with this amendment, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. The very First Amendment. What the founders meant by establishment has been debated intermittently since this was written, but despite many challenges to the socalled Establishment Clause, the Supreme Court affirmed the Separation Of Church And State repeatedly over decades. However, in the last two years, this very conservative u. S. Supreme court has delivered a series of lows to the Establishment Clause, allowing prayer in school, allowing businesses to deny service to lgbtq plus individuals, allowing public funds to go toward religious schools. Meanwhile, trump is capitalizing on the momentum of the religious right, promising to fight for the christian right all the while his team organizes the plan of action that is steeped in christian nationalism. After the break, we will dig into this with a First Amendment expert. Caroline corbin souza deans distinguish color at the university of miami law school. One pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. Heres to Getting Better with age. 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She specializes in interpreting the speech and religion clauses in the First Amendment of the constitution. Professor corbin, thank you for being with us. We appreciate your time. A lot of the most conservative, most christian lawmakers consider themselves to be constitutional literally states. Alabama chief Justice Tom Parker is a selfdescribed constitutionalist and during that interview in which he said, i believe that god created government, he also said he was constitutionalist and carries around a pocket constitutionally. Does this not have the First Amendment in it . Exactly. I mean, the very first part of the First Amendment is the Establishment Clause, which says, Congress Shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. And that basically means that the government should not have an official or favored religion. And there are a lot a very good reasons why the Establishment Clause prohibits that. For example, it protects the civil piece if the government, any government, can have a favorite religion, then youre going to have a Competition Among various religions to try and become the favorite. That would cause strife. The Separation Of Church And State actually protects the favored religion, because anytime religion gets intimately involved with the government, it unfairly compromises its integrity and finally, the government is not supposed to have a favorite religion because it undermines the equality and the religious liberty of religious minorities. What about Mike Johnsons argument that we are all seeing this incorrectly, that the First Amendment, the Establishment Clause was meant to say that the government should not impose on religion . We his argument is that it was meant to protect religious liberty and he is not wrong. But it protects the religious liberty of religious minorities, by ensuring that the government does not favor another religion, because that invariably does our religious minorities. I mean, you see that, for example, the government is not supposed to win lead prayers. We should not have government or even Public Schools lead prayers in schools. That has long been part of the Establishment Clause because otherwise, students may feel pressure to participate in prayers that are not their own. And so, their own religious liberty, their religious views that do not happen to match the prayers that the school is issuing, their own religious liberty would be compromised. And so, yes, it absolutely does protect religion. But it protects it by ensuring the government does not get in the business of we practicing religion or imposing religious beliefs on everyone. So look, not everybody sees these things as we directly impactful to them and their beliefs. The Separation Of Church And State, as a constitutional matter, seem straightforward enough. If you start to look forward daytoday lives in america, you can see where the confusion begins when in god we trust on our currency, we say that we are One Nation Under God in our pledge of allegiance. How does that we, how do you square that with the Establishment Clause . I would say personally, i think it does violate the Establishment Clause. But we have never, you know, we have ideals in this country. We have them with respect to a lot of different areas. We also have them with respect to religion. They are not always realized and i think that is an example where we have failed to really fully respect what is required under the Establishment Clause. I want to ask you about the impact of the series of cases that took aim at the Establishment Clause directly or indirectly of recent years. If you like we had decades of relative consistency about this and now we suddenly dont. Feels like weve changed directions on this week. Absolutely. I mean, the Establishment Clause has had various areas where it has, as i mentioned, forbidden the government from leaving prayers, so that people dont feel coerced into participating in religious exercise. It has forbidden the government from sort of installing religious iconography or religious symbols, lest it seem like it is endorsing one particular religion at the expense of others. And it has for been the government from directly funding religious exercises. In each of these areas, we have seen the Supreme Court cut back on with traditional protections. So, four years in school, what used to be absolutely, Beyond The Pale for the Establishment Clause. But in a recent case, we saw the Supreme Court will a christian coach, saying prayers immediately after football games, in the middle of the football field, even though with players and others were around him. In terms of christian symbols, the Supreme Court recently upheld the governments with 40 foot latin cross, which seems like, again, directly contradictory to what with Establishment Clause is meant to impose. And finally, the question with Government Funding of religion used to be with, does giving Taxpayer Money to this religious organization violate the Establishment Clause . And now the question has become, is the governments failure to get Taxpayer Money to religious organization violate that religious Organizations Free exercise . Which simply turns on its head our traditional concerns with respect to Government Funding. Its not even noon and im signing up to get my continuing this morning. We really appreciate this. Youve schooled us in this important matter. Professor Caroline Corbin is a professor of law and a deans distinguished scholar at the university of miamis school of law. That does it for me. Thanks for watching. Catch me back here tomorrow morning, 10 am to noon eastern. If you miss anything, veggies available as a podcast. Listen wherever you get your podcasts and i may wear a different vest next time. Stay right where you are. The Katie Phang Show starts right now. Im katie phang. Live from Telemundo Studios in miami, florida. And here is the week that was. President biden and former president trump, coming off huge winds in michigan. Re