Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240704

In mind. Thank you for doing that, we will pick up exactly where you left off. Have a good weekend. Have a good show. Good show. Russia without putin, that was one of the chants shouted by the people who Alexei Navalny, thousands of people who knew that they were risking their freedom, possibly their lives to say that. Alexei navalny who was harassed, poisoned imprisoned, and ultimately killed is proof of what happens to those Who Defy Putin and russia. Navalnys widow yulia and their two children did not attend the funeral because of fears of their own safety, Russian Police patrol the funeral, they stopped mourners from entering the church, unable to view, as you saw the open casket where navalnys body was covered with Red And White roses. The New York Times reports that Cell Phone Service in the area had been reduced to the lower band with 3g standard and described it as a mobile shutdown. Thats what it means to live in russia with putin. Despite this, a quarter of 1 Million People streamed navalnys funeral. That is putins worst nightmare, Vladimir Putin is running for reelection right now, the election is in two weeks, even in death, Alexei Navalny Who Dared Run Against Putin in the last president ial election in 2018 was able to speak through his supporters today. Defiantly objecting to putins rule. Today, Vladimir Putin who is essentially running unopposed this year made a martyr out of his enemy. Today, Alexei Navalnys protest against him was louder, and it was multiplied in the voices that shouted we wont forget. And russia will be freed at is funeral today. Back here its a reminder to not take our own democracy for granted, especially in an Election Year where the Presumptive Republican nominee donald trump is a putin fan boy. Trump loves putins impunity, which he perversely calls strength, he promotes a similar authoritarian vision in america, Undermining Law Order and dehumanizing people, threatening judges and prosecutors. Just last night on fox, trump said that president s need full immunity in order to take quote severe actions. We are trying to do something good for the country, even if it is severe, the severe may be a great thing for the country, they have to have president ial immunity. Severe like what . Mass deportations . Shooting protesters . Executing Vice President s who tried to stop him . Thats how people live in dictatorships. In russia with putin where the general who defies him goes down on a plane crash, and the candidates who runs against him dies in a suburban prison, this is who donald trump sees as a hero, according to the former australian Prime Minister malcolm. Ive been with trump and putin, trump isnt of putin. When you see trump with putin, as i have on a few occasions, he is like the 12yearold boy that goes to high school and meets the captain of the football team. [laughter] my hero, its really creepy. Donald trump wants to help putin and nato. Donald trump wants to help putin defeat democracy in ukraine. Most republicans in congress who live in a free country who have so much less to fear than every ordinary person who showed up at navalnys funeral today continue to help Donald Trumps dark vision of a world more like that, of Vladimir Putin. Leading off our discussion tonight is the retired Lieutenant Colonel alexander vindman, he served as director of European Affairs at the National Security council during the trump administration. And Msnbc International Affairs Analyst Michael Mcfaul who served as u. S. Ambassador to russia from 2000 and 12 to 2014. Gentlemen, thank you for joining me for this important lead off discussion tonight. Colonel vindman, you are one of those people you came from a part of the world that was not enjoying democracy, and you saw something as a person who worked in the administration, you saw something that felt dishonest, and you stood up. You had something to lose, and you did lose something, you lost your career for doing it. But that was what you said, when you said we cant have this lawlessness that goes on in the other parts of the world in america. In a lot of ways we are seeing both trump telegraph the kind of world he wants to live in, and we dont have to use our imagination too hard because we can see that world manifested in front of us because trump tells us that he wants to emulate Vladimir Putin. In that we see what life could be like. We see a world in which trump would like to eliminate his opposition. He would like to imprison them, poisoned them, potentially murder them. Mass deportation, we saw that play out in regards to russia. What i fear, and frankly, desperately hope doesnt happen is that we dont have to have our population come out in thousands or, Tens Of Thousands to protest against barbarism in the United States. Its striking that in the course of two years of war putin has done everything he could just to oppress the population, and thinks that he has count them. People were out on The Street Chanting against the war, chanting for Alexei Navalny, and a different vision of russia. Again, i do not wish to see anything like that happen in the United States. Thats why you hear me, and ambassador mcfaul, who i have had the privilege of serving for in moscow, we are focused on making sure that were over there does not come to the u. S. Our troops dont get pulled in, and we protect democracy at home. Ambassador, lets talk about the idea that were two weeks away from an election in which there has never been any doubt that Vladimir Putin would be the victor. Why does that stuff still happen . Why are those people prepared to go out. They know who the next president of russias going to be. They know, as Colonel Vindman has said, they know from the outbreak of ukraine war, and other demonstrations in favor of navalny are supporting his effort, they know you can go in jail, and yet they come. They come knowing that they may face arrest, or worse. I have deep admiration for all the people who did come on this horrific day for all of russia, for the navalny family. For me personally, i know the navalny family, i knew alexei for many years, he was a talented leader, he was the mandela, he was the valencia, of his country with one horrible, tragic difference, he was killed in prison, he was not released. To answer your question, i would say remember what navalny said in the movie at the end of it, if they have to kill me, and if i am dead, that means we are stronger than you know we are. We are stronger than you think we are. Something to that effect. I think what you saw today is you are absolutely right, every single one of those people are being photographed, they could go to jail for years for what they were chanting. I have friends in jail in russia right now who have gone to jail for years for chanting what they said. But they are defying him, and for everyone who was there, there are many, many more sitting in their kitchens who are afraid and have exactly the same preferences, we have to remember thats not all russians think like putin, not all russians support putin. He told me years ago, when talking about these stores, dont say russians, talk about putin, talk about the russian administration, dont paint all russians with the same brush, same thing can be said for america right now, for a lot of people looking at us and what are you people doing, its not all of us, there are some people in america who protests every day. People who protest the injustice, so this is not a fight we have lost in america, yet. We have the vote, our vote actually matters, and we can make changes, but it takes acts of courage to do this. I think that is true, frankly we might have only one more vote left that really matters. If trump comes to office, he has already declared that he tends to be a dictator. The chief will is investing in broad powers, it is not easy to undo american democracy that has been around for nearly 250 years. But a lot of damage has been done and President Trump has every intention to do that. So we have one more vote, we need to make sure population shows up so that we dont have to face the challenges and impressions that the russians are facing. I think the fact is that between now and then, its going to be a particularly difficult period. There are steps that need to be taken to make sure that the war between russia and ukraine doesnt spillover. That the highest risk of that happening frankly is if ukraine doesnt get support. The Republican Party must show up in an effort to support and advance u. S. National security and pass a ukraine aid package. Same aid packages that would support taiwan and israel. But it is critically important that ukraine gets aid, otherwise, there is a big risk that the war could spillover. President macron in france alluded to something of that nature. Worstcase scenario, in the absence of the u. S. , in which europe has no choice but to face off against russia, in ukraine, so that they dont have to face against russia on their own territory. This is an important point you bring up, one would say, president macron, ambassador, is the president of france, and nato country. Why would russia go into a nato country . I want to remind our viewers of what donald trump said on February 10th and South Carolina about a nato leader who said, we dont pay what you say we are supposed to pay, which is a misrepresentation to start with, will you protect us if russia does something . Heres what former President Trump said . No, i would not protect you. In fact, i would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. So there you have it, ambassador. As the colonel says we dont have to stretch our minds too much to imagine with donald trump would do in these cases, because he tells us what he would do. While he does, that is really scary for me, for the following reasons, he may say that, and he may encourage putin to go in to one of the countries on the border there but the ideas that we would stay out of that conflict, that is naive beyond imagination. It reminds me of the 1930s when people just like trump said, that is not our problem over there. It doesnt matter what the italians are doing in ethiopia, where the japanese and china, or hitler in poland, and then it became our problem. Right. I was in munich last week speaking to leaders, and they are scared to death of that scenario, when putin tasks our commitment to article five and we have a president , perhaps like mr. Trump. Its nice for americans to think that we will be able to keep out of a war in europe. Better to be strong now, Ronald Reagan stated peace through strength than to wait for that scenario to play out, and dont believe me, just go back and read what happened in the 1930s punctuated by what happened to us in 1941. Ali, if i can come into this, the danger is more real, this is not a what if scenario, what happens if donald trump is back in office in 2025. The threat is real because what donald trump has done is he has offered a signal that the Republican Party, not just trump in the future, but the republicans today would not show up in the event of an attack on nato. And that is a recipe for disaster, thats an invitation for putin to test that. He has been wanting to destroy nato for the whole time, to test that resolve, thats a recipe for troops to be in danger. Because we would defend them, but he may not perceive it that way, the same scenario, in the weeks and months before february 22 where putin believed he saw the signal that the Republican Party, the political establishment and the United States will not show up and he struck. He struck out of ukraine, we are in that same situation out, its very dangerous, very real. And even in the months before the election, i think our troops are now in much greater danger than they were before. Thats a remarkable perspective on that. Ambassador, you and Colonel Vindman are students of history, one doesnt have to go too far back in history, you can go back to september 11th 2001, to The One And Only time that article five, the mutual Defense Article of nato was invoked. And it was invoked in the defense of the United States of america, by every other Member Nations who said you have been attacked so we have been attacked, we are here for you. That is right, im glad you are reminding everyone of that. I dont think mr. Trump understands that. By the way they didnt just invoke article five, they send their soldiers to fight with us, and died with us in afghanistan. So, when i hear all the debate about 1 , 2 , i want to remind everyone that our nato allies died for us. We have not had to fight for them, and we are all better off. The one great advantage we have, as the United States of america, when dealing with russia, or dealing with china are our allies, its our one superpower. We have allies, and they dont. So why donald trump doesnt understand that basic fact about our National Security . I know the republicans do around him, i know they are just afraid of him. I wish they would speak up. And, to go back to your analogies between trump and putin, i wrote a piece about that, ali, in february of 2017. And it wasnt how in russia opposition where there, you know who was quiet . The people in his party, the oligarchy, and those who allegedly listened to his christian values, right . He is not so bad, he will cut our taxes, he speaks about christian things that we talk about. Thats what they said in the early years of putin. And as eerily similar as what we hear now, those people being silent, who need to speak up before its too late. Democracy. Alexander vindman and Michael Mcfaul, thank you. Coming up we will bring you the latest defendant trump development, as donald trump and jack smith were in the same courtroom. Andrew weissmann and katie feng join us next. Us next. Sleep more deeply. And wake up rejuvenated. Purple mattresses exclusive gelflex grid draws away heat, relieves pressure and instantly adapts. Sleep better. Live purple. 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Whoa, how did you defeat them . You dont. With a little kung fu strength and by connecting my devices to the most powerful force of all. Skadoosh. Hah, huh . Cool right . Amazing. Harness the power of xfinity internet and stay connected to the things you love. Ah, theyll be like this for hours. Hello dad, hello dad, hello da. Uhoh. Good bunnies. Ahh it was a big day in court today for two of the four criminal cases against donald trump. Both could have major consequences for how the two cases play out, and when. Its up to judge scott mcafee to decide whether to disqualify the fulton District Attorney fani willis from prosecuting Donald Trumps Georgia Election interference case. During Closing Arguments today, Defense Lawyers for donald trump and other codefendants alleged that she financially benefited from a romantic relationship with the lead prosecutor nathan wade creating a Conflict Of Interest that should disqualify her. But the state pushed back arguing that the defense had not met their burden of proof to disqualify fani willis, and discrediting the defense star witness who this week has admitted that he was speculating about the details of their relationship. The judge said he will make a decision within two weeks, as the New York Times knows the states are high. If miss willis is disqualified from the case, her entire office would be too, and the case would probably be turned over to a District Attorney from another jurisdiction. The new prosecutor could choose to continue the case as planned, modify the charges, or drop them. Meanwhile, in fort pierce, florida todays Special Counsel jack smith and donald trump faced in the same courtroom, in front of a lean, to determine when the trial of trumps mishandling of classified documents will begin. Jack smiths team argue that the trial should begin on july 8th, but in front of the judge cannon, Donald Trumps lawyer, again pushed for the trial to be postponed until after the election, calling it unfair to take donald trump off the campaign trail, and claiming that a july trial would be unworkable given Donald Trumps hush money trial in manhattan, that will begin later this month. Trumps lawyers told judge cannon, that if the trial had to be before the election, the earliest they could do is august 12th. Politico reports that in some of the most pointed language of the hearing, jay brought a prosecutor on jack smiths team criticized trumps Delay Tactics saying quote, what it really seems to me is that those dates, those were fake dates, and bad fake dates, we need to bring the case to trial this summer. Judge cannon also raised the issue of the Justice Department 60day rule, an internal guidelines that prosecutor should not take any legal action within 60 days of an election to avoid impacting the result. According to politico, quote that provision does not apply in a case that has already been charged, brat responded, adding that the Special Counsels team had consulted with the Justice Department unit that handles most cases involving politicians and candidates, the Public Integrity section. Quote, it does not apply to setting a trial date. End quote. Judge cannon did not indicate how, or when she would rule. Joining us now is Andrew Weizmann former fbi general counsel, and former chief of the Criminal Division of the Eastern District of new york. Hes an msnbc legal analyst, and the cohost of the important msnbc Podcast Prosecuting donald trump. Hes also coauthor of the new book the trump indictments, the historic charging documents with commentary, end quote. And joining us from atlanta georgias katie phang, an attorney and the host of the katie phang show on msnbc. I dont know how your wake, katie, both of you have been working remarkable hours. Katie, let me start with you, in georgia, and the stakes of this case. What does it make you think . So it was Closing Arguments, ali and it was three hours of Closing Arguments, which is remarkable, but not really if you consider the fact that there are so many different defendants. The footnote to that would be the import of this case. It started with 19 codefendants, it is a r. I. C. O. Case with multiple other offenses. You already have four of those codefendants played out, some of whom were critical to the scheme to defraud and to try to overturn the Georgia Election results, the reason i talk about that is because we cannot lose sight of the fact that that is what this prosecution is about. We have taken somewhat of a Circus Sideshow Detour over the span of a number of weeks now table to litigate a motion to disqualify, which in any jurisdiction would be serious, but in this particular jurisdiction, it has such import as you discussed in the set of alec, because a fani willis is disqualified on the georgia law and procedure, her entire office is disqualified, and then you have to weigh an innumerable amount of time to wait for reassignment. And the prosecutorial assignment of if they want to prosecute all the charges or some. After the three hours of Closing Arguments what we were left with, for those of us who were carefully observing is that judge mcafee had a series of questions that he pepper to the defense, and not so much to the state, what he focused on, for me, as a lawyer and somebody who tries cases in multiple courts is the following, you know, you have to have a burden of proof, jack smith, for example, when he takes donald trump in a trial will have the burden of proof, to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. Its a lower burden in the evidentiary hearing scenario. Its not on the prosecution, its on the defense, when you heard the judge asked the defense of about whether or not , you know, they understood that something that is suggestive of wrongdoing is not a preponderance of the evidence standard, its the judge weighing the evidence in this case. The testimony thats been provided by a number of witnesses, including fani willis herself and nathan wade. But it is worth mentioning, quickly, ali, that the star witness for the defense, in fact he was called the star witness because there was a huge promise that were over delivered by the defense in terms of terrence bradley, the former divorce attorney, hes the only witness that took the stand twice over the course of this evidentiary hearing, and he was a big wamp wamp for the defense, he refused to corroborate, or affirm what the defense said which is that he had provided all of this very salacious information behind the scenes about his former client nathan wade. The defense is saying that fani willis still got a personal financial benefit, but when the judge asked can you to defend that . The defense said its like obscenity, you know it when you see it. Ali, that is not an evidentiary standard, that is what is going to be an important thing for the judge. What is the evidence . Can you tune out the white noise . Tune out the pressure, all the potential optics of a decision, can you base on the evidence, i submit to you that i think the judge in this case is going to do that and we will get a ruling in the next two weeks. That much he has told us, andrew. What we dont have is when the florida judge, Aileen Cannon is going to give us a ruling. Look, one of the things she has been known for is she takes her time with stuff and has been somewhat sympathetic to the trump legal teams constant requests for more time and more things. But, today they got shut down, at least on one front by the Jack Smith Team about this idea that you cant start a trial within a couple months of an election. Obviously, you know a lot about these things. Sure, the question that judge cannon and her rulings has favored the defense, even her reasoning has gone out of its way to find fault with the government and to side wherever possible with the defense in ways that i think continue to be pretty shocking. Remember shes the judge that was reversed twice, before the case was indicted. We do know the trial date, she made various comment saying that she thought that the date that was sought by the government in july was unduly, optimistic. She asked a lot of questions of the defense about not having a trial at all, and certainly not in the lead up of the election. I was surprised she brought up the doj internal rule, because the internal rule of the department down in any way give rise to the defense, they are not enforceable in any court, they are just internal gots to the department. Thats something that the judge knows well having worked as a prosecutor so it really was not of her business to raise that. Also, the rule simply does not apply, the rules about not taking over actions with respect to someone who is a political candidate shortly before an election. Why . You want to give that person an opportunity to have their day in court. This is an overt case where the government is seeking to have the trial, seeking to have a day in court. So, there is every reason for this not to apply, not for the judge to raise it in court. Yes, as a simple non legal guy i struggle with this idea, didnt we work hard to make sure that the people can get their day in court . And get it on a speedy opportunity . Donald trump turns everything on its head . Andrew weissmann, katie phang, we appreciate your coverage. Coming up today, President Biden announced that the United States military would air drop food and supplies into gaza. We will discuss what that means for the people of gaza next, with the Pulitzer Prize winner. Nicholas kristoff. Memory f doesnt com. Get your best sleep guaranteed. Save up to 800 during our president s day sale. Visit purple. Com or a store near you. Meet the traveling trio. The Thrill Seeker. The soul searcher. And ahoy its the explorer each helping to protect their money with chase. 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Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms,. Had a vaccine, or plan to. Nothing and me go handinhand, nothing on my skin, thats my new plan. Nothing is everything nows the time,. Ask your doctor about skyrizi,. The number one. Dermatologistprescribed biologic in psoriasis. Learn how abbvie could help you save. I launched our campaign at this union hall. Lets go win this thing then we hit the road and never stopped. You shared with me your frustration at working harder to barely get by and afford a place to live. Your fears for our democracy and freedoms and your dreams for yourself, your family, and the future. It is not too late to realize those dreams. Im adam schiff, and i approve this message because together we can still get big things done. Today present biden announced that they will be dropping food into the people of gaza. Were gonna join with our friends in jordan, there are air drops of additional food and supplies in addition to expanding deliveries by land, they said, we are going to facilitate more trucks and routes to get more and more people the help they need. No excuses, the truth is aid flowing in gaza is nowhere near enough now. Its nowhere near enough. Innocent lives are on the line. And we wont stand by, so we will get more aid and everything. We will get hundreds of trucks in. Watch as several. I wont stand by, we wont let up and we will pull up every stop we can to get more assistance in. The Airdrop Announcement comes after more than 100 people were killed when israeli troops opened fire, as people waited for a food convoy in the north. At the start of this week President Biden said negotiations for a ceasefire were close and could be agreed to by monday. Tonight President Biden provided this update on the monday timeline. Its not there yet. I think we will get there but its not there yet, and it may not get there now. Joining us now is New York Times columnist Pulitzer Prize winning journalist nicholas kristoff. There is a lot here to unpack and nick you wrote an oped in the New York Times, we dont have to have an interview, just read the title of the oped, it says biden can do better than air dropping food to gaza. There is a lot that we can do better on, President Biden said we will not stand by and we will not let up, except we have stood by, and we have let up. Exactly, we have stood by and there is some inherent contradictions and i was helping to provide the weaponry that creates the destruction, and giving the protection to israel as it blocks state and then us moving into try to drop aid on a crisis we have helped create and one in which many of the victims are children, and they bear no responsibility for the terrorist attacks. Lets talk about what we can do better. Look i will give joe biden credit for being the most optimistic man on earth in thinking there will be a deal. There are outlines of the deal, its not coming together and Benjamin Netanyahu says as often as he is asked, its not the sort of thing that he will do. You said the Simplest Path Forward would be for biden to insist that israel opens more crossing points, allow many more trucks through, permit civilian police escorts, and accepts that on raw and aid groups will play an important part in food distribution, that will be less visual than an airdrop but it would save far more lives. Expand on that, please. So one reason for the tragedy yesterday was that israel apparently did not want to have food aid delivering through unrwa, the u. N. Organization that made a lot of allegations against and may have had people participate in the october 7th attack. It has been reluctant to work with traditional aid agencies, so it had contractors protected by israeli tanks try to go in and, look, the people who have to deliver aid or the aid agencies, and unwra. They have the people on the ground, the network and what you need to do to make Airdrops Work is the people on the ground who collect pallets when theyre dropped, protect them from random gunman seizing them. If you just drop food aid, whos gonna get them . Hamas, not the most Vulnerable People. And right now the most Vulnerable People in gaza are kids. The toll there, ive covered a lot of crises around the world and 250 children under the age of one have died so far in gaza. I cant think of any recent conflict in this century in which that many kids have died that quickly in a war. So you are not just a columnist, you have covered some of the worst things on earth, you have gone to cover some of the stories that most people forgot, or havent covered in the first place. The metrics you used, the number of kids killed, i saw when the other day, im gonna run it down. It says, starvation is growing at a faster rate than it is ever down in history is growing in gaza. The rate from which people are going from having enough food to eat tooth its increasing faster than its ever increased anywhere in the world. That appears to be true, we dont have good metrics on malnutrition but it seems to be expanding extremely quickly, one of the things we learned is that severe, acute malnutrition it kills kids quickly. Once you let it go out of control, its hard to reverse. It can kill kids on a much greater scale than anything weve seen so far. The kids were most vulnerable are those from about six months to about three years of age. But, already, heres another metric. The world wide, in 2022 in all conflicts, all around the globe the 2900 children died, according to the United Nations , well, now in just five months, in gaza alone, we have had 12,500 children die, unicef calls it the most dangerous place in the world to be a child. There are a lot of dangerous places but gaza, it says for is now number one. A number of columns in the past days have chimed in and have said its time for different approach with israel. Joe biden has been slow to do that, he uses the words that say that they will apply pressure, and im sure behind the scenes that is what is going on, but except its not working with netanyahu. What does success look like on that front . What is that . Is it picking up a phone call . The unrestricted aid that the United States provides to israel, is actually stop, is that is the only thing that is going to stop the guns in gaza. Thats whats going to happen. We have seen in the past american administrations apply greater pressure, and, you know, its hard to do politically, netanyahu is a difficult interlocutor, but it can work. Right now, President Biden has, over the last month or, so hes begun to say some sympathetic things. We havent seen a change in policy. In his willingness to use leverage to try to get israel to provide more aid to slow the scale of the bombing. For example, if Noah Terry Equipment going to israel where suddenly tied up in more red tape, it was a slowdown in deliveries, i think that would be a message for the idf. The idea of what intern send that message on to netanyahu. You know, ironically, one of the few practical specific actions that President Biden is actually taking in gaza has been to send funding for precisely the u. N. Agency unrwa that is there to combat starvation. I find this incredibly dispiriting. President biden has a great deal of Political Capital in israel because of the enormous empathy he showed at the beginning, but he hasnt been willing to translate that Political Capital he has in israel to either Greater Movement in the west bank to protect people there or more importantly to revert starvation in gaza. He does appear to be working towards a few things, there might be a deal to be had, and boy that would be a bright light if there was a cease fire and the hostages were released, who knows . Thank you my friend. Nick kristoff, is a Pulitzer Prizewinning journalist. Coming up, the most important undercover battleground in the 2024 election, with republican obstruction in the senate, and extremism controlling the supreme court, State Legislators have never been more important for protecting democracy, Reproductive Rights and more. That is next. Is next. Voices of people with cidp but living with cidp doesnt have to. When you sign up at shiningthroughcidp. 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