Not an elected president. That one man in our nation of laws might, just might lawfully sit is Above The Law. That applies to every other single citizen. The Supreme Court, which has some of the lowest Approval Ratings among the American Public in its history, in counts three trump appointees yesterday decided to dignify a legal series contrary to the american experiment that it rhymes with trumps Access Hollywood moment of infamy. Basically arguing when youre president , they let you do it. Agreeing to hear this case at all is the hinged moment. No matter what happens next. It alone opens the door to turning america into a country where one person can commit crimes in this effort to overturn an election he loses, enlist others in that criminal conspiracy and then instead of facing any criminal accountability, just run for office again. And every last vestige the of criminal liability, criminal exposure and accountability. Has to be Crystal Clear today about the logistical the implications just of yesterdays news about the cannot be unwrong. As we ointed out on this program, over and over and over again, the trump staj is always the same one and its abundantly clear. Its always to delay, delay, delay, to run out the clock, slow down the spire legal process, exploit a defendants Due Process Rights so that a trial in any of these cases is still delayed and pushed back that it happens after the election. Most likely. At that point, donald trump made clear if he wins, he will use his power to free himself, to liberate himself from what he publicly on the stump day after day smears of an unlawful and politically motivated prosecution. That tactic whether wittingly or unwittingly received a pop in yesterdays decision from the Supreme Court. It comes despite the high stakes of actually having a trial in this Election Interference case. An enormous and quite obvious civic and Public Interest in it. A poll released earlier this month shows that 64 of all americans wanted to see Trump Go On Trial before november 2024. That number includes 38 of republicans. Now even after oral arguments in april, the court will take as long as it decides to take to make any decision on whether any american president , in this case that includes donald trump, is Above The Law for anything they to while in office. Even if it includes crimes kmieted while trying to overturn the will of the American Voter using any means possible. So legal accountability for donald trump is now delayed or maybe even denied, there is over is and over again a matter of political the accountability. And on that front, no matter how much or how often donald trump lies to his base about the results of the 2020 election, the cold hard facts is 81 million americans voted against him and for joe biden in 2020. I tonight know if youre ready to hear this, it looks like its going to the fall on the American People to do what our institutions constantly over and over again fail to do. To determine what conduct is outside the bounds of a nation of laws, outside the bounds and norms in a democracy. We will once again as citizens have to use the power of our vote to answer that question. Accountability for deadly attack on the United States capitol and our democracy now most likely in the hands of the American People. Thats where we start today. Former Police Officer who protected the nation is a mob of Trump Supporters carried out an insurrection and an attack on the toll, harry dunn is here. Hes now running for congress. You were the best person to talk to and the only person i wanted to talk to after this news broke on our show and i had 24 hours to process it. I know you write in your book of all of the alleged crimes committed, he should be accountable for all of them, but this one is different. Talk about that. First of all, welcome back. Im so happy to have you back on the air. Didnt get an opportunity to talk with you as early as some of the other people did, but you hit the ground running. No choice. We are a time in this country where like you said the people are going to have to do the work for the institution. Theres so many parallels that are at play here right now. The government right now is a government of the people, by the people, for the people. So we come let me back up for a second is. The blame for this solely outside of donald trump, put square ri on Mitch Mcconnell and the Senate Republicans who voted to acquit him when they had the opportunity to supervent this from happening. First of all, i have to acknowledge that. But to go become to your point about the people, we need to get involved. This is the government is the government of us, the American People. And we dont want the majority of people in the polls that you have shown, a majority of people dont want a criminal, a felon to be running for president. Nobody is Above The Law. What you remind me of, and i made a quick list, of course, hes acquitted by the senate after mcconnell refers him for prosecution. But after referred by the republican lead orer of the senate, theres no evidence that doj turns to do what mcconnell suggested they do on that day or the day after. Its not until the public work of the Congressional Committee led by chairman thompson. I was thinking about this on my way in today that we talk about institutions like they are absent human beings, but Law Enforcement as an institution, it was you, it was offer sic nick, congress wasnt just a blob. It was bennie thompson, liz cheney, witnesses werent just institutional innocents. It was we separate institutions from people, but institutions are only as good as the people that are themselves. I wonder how that changes now your campaign and your conversation as youre out there. Yeah, same thing with the presidency. The presidency is just a human being. So that goes back to the point that nobody is Above The Law. And im glad you named those individuals that you named. Especially the elected officials. Thats where it comes become. Thats the parallel. All the people that those individuals that you listed, they are elected by us, the American People. And i think that needs to be clear in the messaging that candidates running such as myself need to have election time. We are fighting because these institutions have failed us. Not every single person, but these institutions have failed because of some of the choices that voters have made. We need to continue to improve the institutions. Thats a whole different thing. These unelected people that are Making Decisions that are affecting peoples lives. Thats a whole different discussion were having with the Supreme Court. But thats the messaging that we need to have. The American People and honestly, if january 6th didnt ha, you and i arent talking. Were probably not having this conversation. Im not running for congress. But we are at this moment right now where we dont have the the luxury to sit back and see how things play out. We did that in 2016. We took our eyes off the ball. Donald trump first got elected. We cant do that. Because theres too much at risk. Theres too much at stake. We all have to stay engaged and stay motivated. Democracy is worth protecting. Its fra industrial jill. We are at a breaking point. I was thinking yesterday and i think i said this on the air. Its hard to say this and its hard to give this to trump, but what he does works for him. The strategy the of delay, delay, delay, rile up your base, yesterdays evidence that he should keep doing it because its probably going to work out for him. Its probably going toft the effect of making it extremely difficult, not impossible, but extremely difficult for a trial to happen before anyone votes. And i was reading through the stories today. The a ap, as straight as it comes, the Supreme Court decision yesterday a legal victory for trump making it all but impossible that a juror will be to the evidence against trump before voting happened. And i was thinking back to how the country got to know you, this Congressional Probe. I already find what that probe did one of the most historic and important things to happen in my life. But if thats the only body that investigates and seeks to hold accountable Donald Trump For Ab insurrection that mike pence and husband family wept running for their lives. They dont walk if youre not scared for your life. You run. What does it make you sort of reflect back on when you think about the importance of the Congressional Probe . The Congressional Probe, the thing that goes back to mind, i cant talk about how disgusted i am with Mitch Mcconnell and Husband Actings that day because right after the the january 6th attack at the capitol, michael fanone, a couple other people lobbied members of the senate to form that bipartisan committee. This was before the January 6th Committee was formed. And Mitch Mcconnell, as for a personal favor to his senate colleagues, to vote to block that investigation from happening. So its just extremely frustrating. We have so many days, had so many off ramps. I get so frustrated. Here we are again. And donald trump is about to possibly skate on a technicality. Ask that just brings about the Bigger Picture of the criminal Justice System that we need to be reformed. Do these trials need to take this long. Do we have the ability thats one of the things i would love to look at when i get in congress. We need to reform the criminal Justice System. It should not take the january 6th was 3 years ago. Some of the individuals who committed the crimes pled guilty are already out from serving their sentences from the actions they committed that day. And now were still debating whether the president is immune from his actions of that day . Thats a problem. Whats so interesting having covered trump for so many years is the defense always moved. It goes from i didnt do it to what the Supreme Court is going to hear isnt trump arguing he didnt do it. Its trump argue whg youre president they let you. Hes literally arguing when youre famous they let you do it about grabbing women between the legs. Hes going to argue youre immune from criminal accountability from anything you do while president. Theres a word for that. Its a king. Its a dictator. Its all out in the open. And the very signal we send Around The World that were going to hear it. Were going to have our clerks write up briefs and have a decision. To me it sends a signal that we have already changed. Do you think we have changed . We already have. The question before the Supreme Court where the courts right now is can a president send the seal team 6 to assassinate his political opponent. Thats something youd expect to hear on an extreme talk show. But thats a legit question before the Supreme Court. So yes, we definitely changed. Those are the things that you hear about an underdeveloped democracy or countries like we shouldnt be having that discussion with here. People like to say were the greatest nation on earth. We need to act like it. This should not be an issue right now. But it is. And its putting a strain and a definite test on our institutions of the courts, the legislative branch and we need to stand up for it. Cant stress this enough. People have got to be involved. Like you said at the top of the segment, us americans are the ones who are going to decide this. Its up to us right now. We need to hammer that home. We have a the lot of public spacing evidence that the conservative justices in particular consume Copious Amounts of media including cable news coverage, Newspaper Coverage because they give a lot of speeches in which they complain about the way they are covered justice alito, if youre watching. What would you say to the justices who decided to hear trumps case that he has immunity from criminal prosecution . Thus about how they are going to be judged. Think about what the country is actually wants. Listen to the American People. I get it. Theres a lot of nuances with laws and everything like that. But history is not going to be favorable to them. And you are at an impasse right now where you have an opportunity to do whats right morally. I get theres a lot of nuances in laws and so many technicalities, but when it comes down to it, morally, you have to do what is right. The republicans who voted to acquit him failed to do, they have an opportunity to do it now, to set a precedent because history will remember this decision forever. Theres so much that i always want to get to with you. I have all these other pieces of your book that i wanted to dive back through. I want to ask about your campaign. But we have to make a turn today. Please promise youll come back and sit a at this set with us and chomp on the days events. Thank you very much for being here on a day like today. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Its great to see you. Still to come for us, officials in three states have ruled that donald trump did engage in an insurrection. And that donald trump should be kept off the president ial ballot in those states. As we wait for the Supreme Court to weigh in on that. And this is what at the southern border. President biden is in texas expected to blast republicans for blocking a Security Bill while donald trump was on the border today too. An issue he single handedly sabotaged when there was a solution in reach. And later in the broadcast, how alan bragg is planning to use trumps own words against him in the one criminal trial that isnt in jeopardy. The one, the expresident is staring down at and expected to start in a few weeks. Theres new reporting to tell you about and much more, when deadline white house continues after a quick break dont go anywhere. After a quick dont go anywhere. You can make money the hard way as a bullfighter or a human cannonball. Or save money the easy way, with xfinity mobile. Existing customers can get a free line of our most popular unlimited plan for a year not only will you save hundreds but youll also be joining millions who have connected to americas most reliable 5g network. Sure is a lot safer than becoming a stuntman for money. Get a free line of unlimited intro for a year when you buy one unlimited line. Visit xfinitymobile. Com today to learn more. Used to be Sleep Walking into dictaorship in the United States. Is that what we would have if we reelected donald trump . I think its a very, very real threat and concern. And i dont say any of that lightly. It seems crazy to ask this and crazy to fathom it, but do you believe were donald trump were elected he would try to stay in office beyond a second term . We would Never Leave Office . Theres no question. Would he try to stay in power forever . Absolutely. Hes already done it once. Theres no question hes already done once. Cold, hard facts. Joining our conversation, former top prosecutor at the department of Justice Andrew weisman is back with us. And columnist and contributor charlie sykess. Im glad you just gave in and agreed to be here every day after yesterday. That was a close call. Your thoughts about what we woke up to this morning and the prospects of legal accountability . In many ways we are living through bush v. Gore, but its not hitting us straight in the face because instead of a decision on Black And White that says this is now who the president is, this decision gives this little glimmer of hope that maybe this trial will happen but as my colleague and our colleague joyce vance said, the stars and moon and sun have to all align. And everything has to come the into play for there to be a trial where the facts will actually matter and we dont have donald trump just spinning the public. Which is an extra oshd nar position. The Supreme Court has sided with donald trump on this case. Its obviously going to side with him in the colorado case. And to the point that liz cheney was asked about what could we expect, obviously, joe biden won the election and donald trump could stil win, but i really dont have hope as to who would endorse the constitutional mechanism that there are only two terms. Is it going to be congress . They same to be fairly ineffect yule when it comes to impeachment. It was going to be the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court just issued a stay in this case, but that actually reaching any legal conclusions that you need to reach a stay. They basically kept the judges case on ice, but they didnt do any of the things that the law requires to find that a stay is appropriate. Youre supposed to go through all sorts of factors, incluing that you have a likelihood of success and there would be taj. They didnt do any of that. They just issued it. The real issue is where are the checks and balances and the one thing we know from somebody like donald trump from the first time he was president is you definitely need checks and balances with any president because of the extraordinary power that the presidency has. But you particularly need it when you have a president like donald trump. Andrew, where does the i dont even know if this is a question with an answer, but where does the ambivalence on those legal questions come from . Is that the natural extension of a Supreme Court so the walled off from Public Opinion and accountability and ethics that it does something outside its own legal norms, issue a stay without any of those preconditions. I can give one answer that is the best case and one answer thats the worst case. It maybe that for certain justices, these things could be in play. The best Case Scenario is that certain justices said, the date of the election and what goes on with the election and whether were supposed to decide this quickly or not is not before us. Were going to sort of decide this it like any other case. If so happens that the trial is before the election or after the election, thats not something we are going to focus on at all. We see a potential legal issue here and were going to just do this in due course in a plotting way that we would. Trying to keep blinders on as if the real world doesnt kpes in the world that you were just discussing with officer dunn. Thats one potential answer. The other is that this is a world of politics where people know what will happen to the legacy of the Supreme Court in terms of having more nominees of a certain type and solidifying if not capitalizing on what is a 63 majority in most significant cases. And that that is animating some of the justices. I would just say be careful what you wish for because one of the powers that the other branches have is to restrict the power of the Supreme Court Going Forward in the way that we have seen happened to be extremely controversial in israel. So i think those are two potential polar extremes as to what could be going on, what the Supreme Court is doing. Just to be clear, theres a third group of people who thought on the Supreme Court before were in the minority they should not be taking this case at all. Charlie sykes, we launched a series called American Autocracy, it could happen here. We gut checked ourselves. Too much . What do you think . We thought liz cheney and her brand new book and her interview with savannah certainly detailed enough examples of things trump has done that are straight up authoritarian tactics. Now you have andrew weisman, a revered legal mind and lawyer saying one of the things that we have to contemplate now in america is benjamin netanyahulike power grab. Here we are. And i guess my question for you is, here we are again. We are always here. Mueller does a pretty restrained look at trumps conduct. He gets away with not being interviewed. He gives his stuff to barr. He lies about it, distorts it. So fooled once. Thats on him. But impeached twice with the republicans going along, even though they thought this was clear power, we are always in the same play. We are not at issue. But the question of accountability for trump is always off the table. Where are we really as a country . First of all, its really good to have you back. And i dont think were back here again. I dont think we have ever been where we are right now. If you listened to dhai chay, i dont think shes being accessibly alarmist. We described america as the american experiment. It became cliche. The reality was it was an experiment. And experiments can fail. They are not guaranteed. We are in a very, very fragile moment here. And what you have is donald trump essentially leveraging a borderline legal argument that could grant him complete impunity. It is possible that donald trump will regain the presidency is, will pardon himself, make all these criminal cases go away. Well pardon the rioters, the people who tried to overthrow the government on government 6th without any meaningful checks either from the criminal Justice System or from congress. And then you have liz cheney saying, look, he might not go away. Donald trump is not being subtle about what he intends to do in office. And i think that we need to understand exactly the moment were in right now. If theres one bedrock principle in our system, it was that no person was Above The Law. That there was no absolute um um minty to try to overthrow the government. Look where we are right now. Theres a very real possibility that we will have this election and not have had this trial. The court knows all of this. And im not as troubled by the fact that the court took the case as that they are slow walking it. This is not a hard decision, as andrew as pointed out over the last two days. Its been fully agreed. So what they are doing is they are creating a situation where we are in a crisis moment. Yet by doing what they are doing, they are pushing this country right to the brink of a fund the the cisis of legitimacy and credibility. Not just of the court but of the whole democratic experiment. Because what happens if the American Public no longer have confidence in congress, no longer have confidence in the criminal Justice System New York City longer have confidence in president ial elections or the Supreme Court. Where did that lead us as a country . What does that mean for the american experiment. So this is an alarming moment. Its been coming and heading in this direction for a long time. But now were faced with the prospect that nobody is coming to rescu us. This is on us now. Now that we have nine individuals who have not just the substance, but the pace of this in their hands, i said yesterday lets give ginni thomas and clarence thomas, maybe they dont ever talk about politics. Maybe they talk about their fruit trees, but this is what the wife of one of those nine human beings text mark meadows at the center of what trumps to be immune from. Help this great president stand firm. You are the leading with him who is standing for americas constitutional governance. The majority knows biden and the left is attempting the greatest heist of our history. All sorts of by sars kapt sags. It sounds like Sidney Powell and her team are getting inundated. Save us from the left taking america down. January 10th, after the insurrection, were living through the end of america. Most of us are disgusted with the vice president. That would be mike pence at the time. And are in listening mode to see the word of fight. Those who attacked the capital are not representative of the great teams of patriots. Lets deep with the perception that the American People have of the Supreme Court. They are 20 points less less popular today in the wake of dobbs and they now stepped into this. What a nightmare for john roberts who has been concerned about the standing of the institution. Supreme courtss dont need to be popular. They dont need to follow the folds, but its not irrelevant if the American People lose faith in their legit ma us is. Its not irrelevant if people think that the court has become a partisan weapon. Or that it is not bound by call standards. There is that moment at which when were not there yet, where the court may make a ruling and the president like a President Trump might say they ruled. Im going to ignore it. What happens then . To liz cheneys argument or warning, if trump tdss that hes going to ignore the twoterm limit, who is going to enfoce it. How does it happen . So these are things that the court needs to be concerned about. I think that justice robertss has been concerned about it. But if he was really paying attention, he would not be putting the court or the country through this slow walk delay that allowing donald trump to run out the clock that may lead to this ultimate constitutional crisis. Andrew and charlie are not going anywhere. New ruling coming out of illinois that is clear to everyone who studied the case. Donald trump engaged in insurrection on january 6th making illinois the third state to kick him off the ballot. Well talk about that, next. Kit well talk about that, next. Its basically tennis for babies, but for adults. It should be called wiffle tennis. Pickle yeah, aw whoo these guys are intense. We got nothing to worry about. With e trade from Morgan Stanley, were ready for whatever gets served up. Dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. Id rather work on saving for retirement. Or college, since you like to get schooled. Thats a pretty good burn, right . Got him. Good game. Thanks for coming to our clinic, first ones free. start your day with nature made. The 1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. An illinois judge ruled yesterday that donald trump barred from even appearing on that 2024 republican primary ballot. The judge writing, this courts final determination on this issue is that the respondent candidate failed to meet section 3 of the disqualification provision based on engaging in insurrection. His name should be removed from the ballot. The judge put a stay on the decision and the expresident has already filed an appeal. The final outcome will likely be decided, wait for it, by the United States Supreme Court, which heard arguments relate ared to trumps Ballot Eligibility earlier in the month. Joining our conversation, Legal Correspondent and editor for slaet and host of the podcast, shes with us. Andrew and charlie are still here. Ill open the up the floor to you on this or anything we have been talking about. Your thoughts today . I want to welcome you back as with well. Its good to see you. I want to link up something that i think andrew was just saying that is so important. We have this expectation for good reason. We love lawyers. We lo law. The constitution feels lawish. We think that courts are going to save us all the time. We have become in some sense so hypnotized by the notion that a court was going to step in and do the right thing. And i think andrew makes the point is and its really worth lifting up again, this was made a determination was made in that Colorado Court that illinois judge relied heavily on that determination. We have had the January 6th Committee. We have had an impeachment in the house. We all saw with our own eyes what happened. So the notion that this this is some spy thing where nobody can figure out what happened because its just too secret and complicated is part of whats throwing us off. And so im very much of the view that, yes, we all wanted a kind of Shaix Peern Landing when the Supreme Court in some grand bargain said no to immunity and yes, let him be spriped off the bargain. Thats proving that they were centrist and originalist. But okay, were not going to get that. But i think what it does is it forces us to confront the fact that we all saw what we saw. We know what we know. The issueses in front of the courts are not did donald trump do it so much as they are can he be held accountable the for that. The answer to that in some sense, i hate to say it lies as much with us as it does with the courts. And i mean i think thats the deja vu. Here we go again. There was misplaced hope that the Mueller Investigation would be the Accountability Device for, to put it generously, a shared mission with is Vladimir Putin in 2016. And then obstructing the National Security questions and the ability to investigate whether an american Adversary Meddled in our election with the knowledge of or coordination with the trump campaign. And i think that the lesson after that is that the election in 2020 answered the question. But the problem maybe is that trumps legal arguments are not based in a simple legal strategy. They are based in exploiting the american experiment to get out of criminal poe sure they are not about proving innocence. They are proving that absolute power, that ascending to the presidency again is the only way to stay out of jail. Thats what hes saying to his supporters on the trump. Stump. What happens to the rule of law in that circumstance . I think you have heard charlie and andrew say it better than i could, which is if the Supreme Court were to countenance for even a nanosecond, the Immunity Arguments that are being advance ed right now, they are so laughable. It would allow joe biden to get seal team 6 to murder somebody and it wouldnt matter because he hasnt been impeached for it yet. Its crazy. So i think that what were seeing is this Cascading Effect of lawlessness. I think that if in any way, shape or form, almost regardless of what the court does on the merit with this immunity decision, it almost doesnt matter because forcing this to go to trial in the fall when the election has already started, having donald trump darting in and out of a courtroom while hes running for office is an invitation to more lawlessness and more doubt. So in some sense, the harm is done to the rule of law. And the Supreme Court dresses it up as a chin stroking. This is a serious issue. And we cant just affirm to be correct in ever day the d. C. Sir is kit panel opinion. Thats fine. Thats their prerogative. They want to look to think there are not meaningful political consequences for notions of rule of law had, i think its naive to the point of insanity. What is jack smith directing his team to do today . Isnt there a couple things he can think about. But i just want to make sure people understand that i think what youre hearing is all of us are saying this is a might make right regime. And the reason i think that im speaking for myself, but im so upset with the Supreme Court is of course, ultimately, its for the citizenry to make a decision about trump vs. Biden and what that means. But it shouldnt have to be over being hampered by the Supreme Court, when you dont have the institution of accountability, where row dont have a trial. This is the Executive Branch through a grand jury that has had four indictments and you have the courts stepping in to say essentially, no way. Not going to happen. With really such a slim read. There were so many ways, as charlie said, they could have tone this much, much faster. So this is just saying, were not doing this. The chances of there being a trial and certainly a verdict by the time that people start voting are somewhere between slim and none. Because of a choice the Supreme Court made. So the reason its now on us is because we will not have that opportunity to have legal accountability. Thats not the way our system should work. What can jack smith do . Jack smith in addition to having to argue this case and you dont get any better than michael to point out just how all of the ways that this should be decided quickly and even if the court thinks there should be some room for some sort of qualified immunity and some circumstances, its not this case. And theres just no reason to have done it here. He can also when and if theres a green light for the judge, he can try to streamline his case. Theres a phrase i used to use. Which is slim to win. You picked your case. You do what you need to have to get to a verdict and to win. But you dont put in a lot of embroidery. Hes going to be trying to figure out how to cut it down and whats the best argument he can make to the judge that the 88 days, the amount of time she has remaining on the clock, for donald trump to prepare for trial, what legitimate arguments cans he make to her as to why that should be shorter because hes trying to narrow the case so he has less to prepare for. But thats what he would be thinking about when the case goes back to the judge, if it goes back to the judge at the Supreme Court. Wow. Thank you for spending time with us on all this today. Andrew will be back. Charlie sticks around. Up next for us, President Biden and donald trump in texas. 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Ive got homework no way its still my turn we couldnt share the internet. Times up. sharings caring but now with viasats new plans, we have plenty of internet. For everyone except you babe. Youre being rude. More data. Faster speeds. Available where you live. Learn more about our plans at viasat. Com. President joe biden right now on a splitscreen moment in texas today, visiting the u. S. mexico border, showing his commitment to Border Security, as the expresident holds a Border Photo Op about 300 miles west after his very public and unfortunately, effective, efforts to block that border deal. See that biden cant take credit for doing something to solve the problem. Today, President Biden met with Border Patrol agents and first responders, as he prepares to call out republicans in congress for torpedoing at the explicit request of donald trump that bipartisan bill that President Biden helped negotiate for the toughest Border Reform in decades. And while President Biden weighs Executive Action on Border Security, because his team says doing nothing is not an option theyre contemplating. Joining me at the table, former assistant u. S. Attorney, maya wiley is here. Charlie stock is here as well. I missed this, charlie, correct me if im wrong, but it goes Something Like that. President joe biden gives more than any democratic elected official in a very long time has been willing to give to do something about the its a tragedy, its not a crises, its a huge tragedy at the border and donald trump calls the republicans who he was working with and says, dont do it, we cant have him fix this . The rank cynicism was there for everybody to see here. Look, this is going to be a big issue in the campaign. What was really extraordinary was the degree to which you had a bipartisan consensus around this legislation. You had people like James Langford from oklahoma, who negotiated it. And republicans got almost everything they claimed they wanted. Remember, they were actually holding up the aid to ukraine because the crisis at the border, they said, was so serious that they couldnt do anything until this Border Crisis was addressed. Well, the Biden Administration worked with republicans and they came up with a solution to what republicans, saying is this existential crisis. And donald trump torpedoed it, and he torpedoed with it this sort of this explanation that we cant do anything that will make it look like biden is succeeding. We want the issue, we dont want a solution. And so thats where we are, thats brought us to this moment right now, where the republicans in congress basically backed away from solving the problem that they had identified, because they because they wanted to prioritize Donald Trumps ability to use this as an issue in the president ial campaign. I guess its something thats still hard to get used to, that donald trump apparently at a rally says, the senators are trying to say theyre blaming it on me, i say, thats fine, blame it on me. What charlie is saying isnt a theory. These are the facts as all sides acknowledge them. President biden just a couple of minutes ago is laying this all at the feet of the republican speaker. Is that enough . You know, when were looking at the humanitarian crisis were seeing at the border, the strain it creates within this country, you know, i think its really important to talk about what it means to have political leaders who call for solutions, you know, who are problem sofrls rather than seeking power and using a problem to get it. And i do think thats a stark contrast, but its not enough, because i do think that we have to hear about solutions, but again, if we dont have true bipartisanship, if when there is an ability to come up with some kind of negotiated compromise, and it cant be seen through, because of naked, rank grab at power, and the use of division and fear to create it, which is a pattern we have seen with donald trump, then we dont get solutions. And i have to say, as someone who comes from a Civil Rights Community that really actually didnt like the compromise, and was really concerned about a Border Patrol that, for example, remember, under donald trump, had that horrific video, that kind of painted someone of latina background as a criminal, showed them in an ally, victimizing someone, and it looked like a fantasy film about killing someone, because they crossed a border, and that notion of criminalization. Its just the kind of thing that keeps us away from the right discussions around how we create meaningful solution. And thats just something we cant afford as a country, and its not something we can afford as a globe. Lets listen to a little bit of the president. Heres what i would say to mr. Trump. Instead of telling members of congress to block this legislation, join me, or ill join you. In telling the congress to pass this bipartisan Security Bill. We can do it together. You know and i know its the toughest, most efficient, most effective Border Security bill this country has ever seen. So instead of Playing Politics with the issue, they dont we just get together and get it done . Lets remember who the heck we work for. We work for the American People, not the democratic party, the republican party, we work for the American People. And lets remember who we are. Were the United States of america i mean this. Think about this. Theres nothing, nothing beyond our capacity, nothing when we work together. And of all things we should be working together on is this, and we have the formula to get it done. God bless you and may god protect our Border Patrol and may god protect our troops. So, charlie, at some point, making sure that people know that the bipartisan deal, the one that republicans, as you say, got everything they wanted, the one that as maya just put, went farther than she would have liked to have seen it go, was scuttled by republicans in service of donald trump. I mean, there are no new stories in the trump story, right . Solving this thing, fox news bangs the drum about 24 7 along with life in american cities, which actually the two stories are tied together, even on fox news, what do they program if republicans are part of an actual solution on this thing they pretend to care about most . Well, and thats why donald trump demanded that they kill it, because he knows what the playbook is. Hes used it, you know, in every campaign. Were going to hear a lot about caravans. You see fox news and republicans trying to exploit a tragic murder of a young woman by an illegal immigrant. Thats what theyre claiming. This is the way hes the framing it. He goes back to that moment he came down the golden escalator and talked about, you know, the people coming across the mexican border, they are rapists. This is really the message they want to pound through. If, in fact, they solve the problem, if, in fact, you had this major surge, this new legislation, that takes away their talking point. And they want that talking point. They want to play upon the fear, they want to play on the division. They know that the system is broken. The Biden Administration is acknowledging its broken, but what theyre saying is, we dont actually want to fix, we want to use it. We want to make people afraid, because thats their that is the road back to power for them, they believe. Straight out of bob rumsons lines . Thank you for spending the hour with us. Maya sticks around. Much more news ahead. The one criminal case against the expresident that has nothing to do with the United States Supreme Court. New reporting on The Manhattan Hush Money trial when we come back. Dont go anywhere. Trial when w back dont go anywhere. Thats why they choose tmobile for business. Pga of america and tmobile are partnering on 5gpowered analytics to help improve player performance. Tmobiles Network Helps aaa stay connected nationwide. To get their members back on the road. And Las Vegas Grand Prix chose tmobile to help Fuel Operations for one of the Worlds Largest racing events. Now is the time to see what americas largest 5g network can do for your business. When my doctor gave me breztri for my copd, things changed for me. Breztri gave me better breathing, symptom improvement, and reduced flare ups. Breztri wont replace a Rescue Inhaler for sudden breathing problems. It is not for asthma. Tell your doctor if you have a Heart Condition or high Blood Pressure before taking it. Dont take breztri more than prescribed. Breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. Call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. Ask your doctor about breztri. I went to the Wharton School of finance, i was a great student, i built a fortune. Because i do like a deal a second. I do many, many deals. Most of them work. Im a worldclass business guy. Ive built an unbelievable company, very, very little debt. Tremendous some of the greatest assets in the world. Hi, again, everyone. Its 5 00 in new york. Donald trump sold himself to his base of supporters on his socalled business genius, rallying support by selling people on his financial successes. He spoke all the time is about the size of his wealth. He hosted a reality show that showed people vying to work with him and for him. He even wrote books about the subject. But now, those words are going to be used against him in court. New reporting reveals that prosecutors in the criminal Hush Money Case out of new york plan to quote from those books in those arguments, from that new reporting, quote, the Manhattan District Attorneys Office provided trumps defense team with a list of past statements made by the former president , including four dozen quotes from books published between 1987 and 2015, which they plan to introduce as evidence during the trial. According to the defense, some of trumps quotes that prosecutors intend to highlight involve his approach to business, including his frugality, and, quote, handson approach, while others focus on trumps interactions with women, which is expected to be a central issue in the trial. Following yesterdays news out of the Supreme Court that it will consider trumps immunity claim, the Hush Money Case brought by alvin bragg holds even more significance. It is increasingly likely it will be the only criminal case of the expresident to go trial before the election in november. Back in april of last year, alvin bragg charged donald trump with 34 Felony Counts of falsifying Business Records to conceal damaging information ahead of the 2016 election. The charges hold penalties of up to four years in prison. Trump has pleaded not guilty to all 34. Braggs case will be the firstever criminal trial of an expresident , set to begin just under one month from today on march 25th. The wrongdoing by the expresident , bragg alleges, is much more than paying money to an Adult Film Star there stay quiet about an alleged affair. It is often shorthanded to hush money as weve laid out in public court filings. The case is not the core of its not, you know, money for sex. We would say its about conspiring to corrupt a president ial election and then lying in new york Business Records to cover it up. And so thats the heart of the case, as weve laid out in court filings. Thats where we start the hour with some of our favorite legal experts and friends. Msnbc Legal Correspondent, lisa ruben is back with us, plus back with us, former assistant u. S. Attorney, maya wiley, and msnbc legal analyst, former top prosecutor at the department of justice, Andrew Weismann is back with us. I was writing in my notes, what did sdny do . Remind me what they did with this case . They looked at the same evidence and facts . So, with respect to Michael Cohen, they actually brought the case and he pleaded guilty. I actually know a lot about that, because that was referred to them by the Mueller Investigation, because it was you know, we had this narrow remit. And when this came up, we split off this part of the Michael Cohen case, and they successfully brought it, but then they stopped. So, that is where the Manhattan District Attorneys Office, to their credit, both to the d. A. Vance and now to d. A. Bragg, they both have been tenaciously pursuing this. I just wanted to say, you know, some of your viewers might be saying, what do those quotes, what are those packages that nicole read, what is it, frugality and, sort of being handson, what does that have to do with this case . Why are they going to seek to read those passages . This is why. And theyre really good lawyers on both sides in this case. What the prosecution is going to say is, this isnt some executive. Donald trump was not some Senior Executive who didnt know what was going on and the details. This wasnt some tiny bit of money that, how do you expect a billionaire to keep track of this paltry sum of money that lowlevel people might be dealing with. Hes not in the weeds. What they want to show is, he is a handson boss, he is frugal, he watches every dime. Thats going to be the theory of their case. Thats why these statements are going to be relevant to them. You know, obviously, thats part those are bricks that you use to build a wall, as both leah and milo know from trying cases, thats how you sort of go about it, and the defense will have to figure out how theyre going to that can. But thats the reason for why those statements are going to be something that the prosecution wants to introduce to help build their case. I feel like this case has always suffered from the words porn star, sex, and hush money as being part of the searches, but alvin bragg is making clear in his comments that this is about Election Interference. And no doubt, i worked on campaigns, when you are keeping Information Quiet ahead of a date that happens to coincide with an election, that is Election Interference. What do you make of the larger themes in this trial . I think that is right. It is important to remember, i think, two things. One the information that d. A. Says they were trying to keep quiet was particularly sensitive because of the access Hollywood Tape had just come out. And so this was coming out around that same time. It would have really cemented peoples view of donald trump, it would have made it much harder for him to say, remember, if you remember, he said, thats not even my voice that was one of his first claims, that wasnt even me on that. So weve come pretty far. Now he says, its me, who cares . Because im a misogynist, essentially. So thats one. And something thats notable to me, you have this effort to catch and kill that involves the complicity of a media organization. Its safe to say when you think about a media organization, you think about giving information to the public, you dont think about deliberately keeping information from the public, on behalf of not just keeping it, but on behalf of a political candidate. And so, that is what is charged here, and according to the indictment, the head of that media organization, the national enquirer, is going to be one of the governments witnesses, is going to be called by the Manhattan District Attorneys Office to talk about that agreement, that complicity between donald trump and keeping that information from the electorate. Just to be clear, everything im saying is what i will anticipate we will hear. Its obviously the states burden to prove this case beyond a reasonable doubt. When i went on maternity leave, there was this dmairt looming. Good thing youll be back before the trial starts. And now that im back, it looks like this could be the only trial that happens before election day in november. Alvin bragg seems wider for that possibility. He is wired for that possibility. And i think hes been telling all of us for a long time, dont discount this case. Im not telling you that it is as grave as the federal case, with willful retention of classified materials and instead of referring this to as a Hush Money Case, i think its time as the state Election Interference trial, as contrasted with the federal Election Interference trial, before judge chutkan, i think ready to go. I think that they have been preparing, including with preinterviews of witnesses for weeks. And based on the performance, i saw of the prosecutors handling this case and the Pretrial Hearing on february 15th, i think we will be treated to some very good lawyering in this case. I share andrews opinion of the two lead Defense Attorneys representing President Trump. One is a former prosecutor, the other is a very wellregarded federal defense attorney. They are todd blanche, who used to be a Southern District of new york prosecutor, maya and i both know, and susan necklace, a very wellregarded Criminal Defense Lawyer in town. I think youre going to see both sides really make an effort here and be prepared for trial. But we cant ignore the fact that this trial and the Supreme Court review of the Immunity Case are going to coexist. And then weve also got these civil cases where judgment and postjudgment issues are going to collide with that calendar, too. This case opens on march 25th. You know what else march 25th . Its Donald Trumps deadline to post a bond in the new York Attorney generals civil fraud trial. And unless he gets some intervention from that appeals court, hes going to owe 454 million plus interest in the form of some kind of undertaking on the same day that Jury Selection begins in this state Election Interference case. Having watched him in judge engorons courtroom, what are you prepared for in a Hush Money With A Porn Star Trial . Im prepared for anything and everything. Thats honestly the truth. And i think one of the reasons im prepared for anything and everything is because State Courthouses are fundamentally different animals than federal courthouses, in almost every sense of the word. But in this one critical way, cameras cannot even enter the Southern District of new york. They are not only welcome at 100 Center Street, where this case will be tried, but donald trump will be given the opportunity to address the press multiple times a day, there will be Pool Photographers who come in at the beginning of a trial day. When he leaves to take a break, they will be waiting for his every word. He will transform the hallways of 100 Center Street into a briefing room, in effect, a very poorly setup briefing room, but a briefing room, nonetheless. I think ive mentioned to you before that every moment that he is there in the courtroom is just a little bit more tense, you know, i think about, im a huge taylor swift song, and i think about the song bejeweled when she says, i can still place shimmer, for donald trump its like, i can still make the whole place tenser. His is very presence brings an aura of danger and unpredictability to the proceedings. You know, trump has benefited by years now of railing against elites and a lot of it weve tlaernd from mary trump comes from feeling excluded by them, disrespected by them. But elites thought that this was too sordid. And i think in some case, this case hasnt been given both the import in terms of its impact on the 2016 election, the absolute sort of base corruption, as andrew was talking about, as coopting a media outlet and conspiring with them to keep information from The General Public ahead of a president ial election, but this, too, to lisas point, this is about what was before the voters before they made a choice about in a president ial election. Yes. And i think lisa said it really well. And going back to the point about the importance of the case, one of the things that has been so devastating about these past several years is that the normalization of Criminal Activity, even the claim of Criminal Activity against someone who is seeking to hold to reins of the most powerful position in the country, which under any other circumstances, at other points in our history, this case would have been a big deal. It is only because we have gotten to a place in this country where we saw what happened on january 6th that were hearing a discussion of this case that denigrates its importance. Totally. And that is something we should worry a lot about. This is a personal obsession. And its actually brain science, right . The laws of adoption you know, we have to adapt. And so we have triage and take the most frightening thing and then the laws of Relativity Force us to sort of prioritize. And so when were talking about a coup, when were talking about classified stuff, and talking about these other things, we put sex with a porn star and alleged Hush Money Payments at the bottom of that list. But theyre essential to the corruption of an election, as anything else. And theyre someone youd this term earlier, theyre the original sin, theyre about 2016. Remember the access Hollywood Tape, right . The access Hollywood Tape, we actually see a lot of republican politicians backing away from donald trump, because they think that this is going to be the political kiss of death. And then its not. But yet, this case goes back to why we have to be concerned about why and how a person behaves in a certain way, and what might indicate. June, voters care a lot about understanding who theyre voting into office. People who run for office spend a lot of trying to project to voters who they are. The question is always, are you actually who youre telling me you are, or are you not . And part of what this case is bringing to the fore is something the civil cases have already brought. Whether its the settlement of his Trump University civil fraud case. Whether it was the settlement of the trump charities, where he was writing checks, that personally benefited from himself to himself out of the charity, or, now the trump organizations a felon. His business is a felon. His cfo is a felon. So weve already got all of these data points that have built over time, that even include some of this information we heard before 2016 and saw before 2016, but now its its such a pattern that we should be looking at this now for first criminal trial in the full light of day, of all of the data points we have seen that relate to a long pattern of fraud and the relationship portraying himself in a certain way and working hard to, with regard to maybe what the truth is. Andrew, explain to a nonlawyer why tish james and alvin bragg were able to do what no federal prosecutor has been able to do. That is such a great question. You know, i think theres a complicated answer to that. You know, i think you started by asking me about and ai gave you this explanation about the Southern District of new york making headway on Michael Cohens case and then stopping, and as we know, bill barr had a hand in that. That the case would not go any further. As you were in the Michael Cohen plea documents, it was clearly referring to the role of donald trump, at least what we see in the state documents. At least initially, you had a problem because of bill barr. The second part is, you know, a lessflattering answer with respect to the Current Department of justice administration, because there was nothing that prevented the current doj from picking that case back up, in the same way that you and i and others have talked about Merrick Garland being slow to take up the January 6th Case until really stepping on the gas, only after the january 6th congressional hearings. So a lot of what were dealing with now, it doesnt excuse what the Supreme Court is doing. There are lots of others players to share in that blame, but the sort of having the moxie and the, you know, the sort of sanghwa to basically say, you know what, im going to follow the facts where they lead and im going to do it quickly and im going to do it regardless of the political hit that im surely going to take in a town Like Washington is unfortunately, i think, part of the story as to why we are where we are. And i dont think you saw that either with d. A. Vance, to be fair to him, as well, and d. A. Bragg, and with tish james. I think they basically did their jobs, as good public servants. And theres a real contrast in looking at what they did compared to other people. And in some instances, they face, not just equal threats, but more brutal and crude ones, with a lot less security infrastructure. We hope thats been beefed up. But always worth pointing out that some folks found a way. Lisa ruben, thank you again for yesterday and for coming back today. Youre on the Andrew Weismann schedule now. Andrew, youre finally allowed to leave, but dont go far. I think were 4 for 4 this week. Thank you, my friend. Maya sticks around for a little bit longer. When we come back, American Autocracy and the bright red warning sign from the Prime Minister of australia, who has seen donald trump up close and maybe too personal with Vladimir Putin. He calls the Reverence Trump has for russias dictator creepy, likens it to that of a 12yearold boy who looks up to the captain of a High School Football team. He will be our next guest with an urgent warning about the safety of global democracy if trump wins a second term. And later in the hour, so much for protect, ivf. Republicans now for purely political purposes trying to talk the talk on ivf, but not even remotely walking the walk. Deadline white house continues after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. Continues aft. Dont go anywhere. 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One bank for now. For later. For life. Chase. Make more of whats yours. When i was your age, we never had anything like this. Chase. What . Wifi . Wifi that works all over the house, even the basement. The basement. So i can finally throw that party. And invite shannon barnes. Dream do come true. Xfinity gives you reliable wifi with walltowall coverage on all your devices, even when everyone is online. Maybe well even get married one day. I wonder what i will be doing . Probably still living here with mom and dad. Fast reliable speeds right where you need them. Thats walltowall wifi on the xfinity 10g network. I am every opponent youve ever faced. Lets dance lizard. I can take any form i desire. Awesome i mean its disturbing, but its awesome. Trump is in awe of putin. When you see trump with putin, as i have on a few occasions, hes like the 12yearold boy that goes to high school and meets the captain of the football team. My hero it is really creepy. Its really creepy. The scary thing is that for countries like australia and many european countries, we may find ourselves are we going to find ourselves not dealing just with two autocracies in russia and china, but is what is trumps america going to look like . This is a guy leading a party that is no longer committed to democracy as we understand it. A chilling statement at this point heard Around The World, but perfectly put. Those are the stakes of a decision now left solely and squarely in the hands of the American Voter. The fate of the world order as we know it. Former australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull giving voice to an acute anxiety shared by many nor government officials all Around The World, that the United States is very, very alarmingly, but very realistically at the brink of a possible dark new era, one where it veers into autocracy. An American Autocracy. Donald trump isnt even pretending otherwise, right . Hes not saying one thing Behind Closed Doors and another on the podium. The selfdescribed day one dictator, perhaps inspired by his the Catalog Obsession with strongmen on the world stage, people like Vladimir Putin, has been open and public about his desire to use American Government institutions to target his political enemies. As he heard, he idolizes, in a, quote, creepy way, Vladimir Putin. Putin for his part, today, suggested in a speech that the west faces the prospect of nuclear war now, should it continue to support or intervene more directly in ukraine. And the New York Times today reporting that donald trump plans to meet privately with hundred gainer Prime Minister, another man he has a creepy affection for, victor orban, a rightwing nationalist, at his club, maralago next week. These developments taken together bring into even shaper focus this afternoon that with u. S. Institutions passing the buck now to the American Voter, it is on us to choose the path forward for america, democracy or autocracy. Joining our conversation, it is a privilege to get to speak to the aforementioned former Prime Minister turnbull. Thank you so much for being with us. Your comments were heard Around The World. I woke up to them on morning joe and ive seen them everywhere. Well, look, i think its a very important point to make. The trump fascination with putin is a very creepy one, and it was palpable. I mean, people who have been with trump and putin, and indeed people who saw him with putin at that helsinki conference will say the same thing. He has a fascination with putin, hes in awe of putin, probably admires him, probably wishes he could be his omnipotent in america as putin is in russia, but its a very, its very disconcerting when you see the leader of the free world being so interested in tyrants. And of course, its not just putin. Look at his bromance with kim jongun. How improbable was that . You know, effectively exchanging what i think he described as love letters. I think it is alleged to be the among the classified things he took with him to maralago to hang on to them and i understand he has framed pictures of himself with kim jongun, which its so bizarre, it sometimes falls off the radar of the things we talk about, but it should be top of mind. I want to ask you what the conversation was among World Leaders when you saw trump fawn over putin and kim jongun . This was particular the case at the hamburg g20 inform 2017. It was very disconcerting. You saw on the one hand trumps very, very apparent distaste for angela merkle, the chancellor, you know, effectively the Prime Minister of germany. On the other hand, his fascination with putin. And it was an extraordinary contrast. So the, you know, his i mean, his instincts are not democratic. I mean, again, he says the quiet part out loud, as youve said in your introduction. You know, we dont have to speculate or psychoanalyze donald trump. He says all of this stuff. He is not a conservative. People often talk about conservatism and so forth. Trumps not a conservative. Conservatives believe in the rule of law. They defend established institutions. You know, they are not conservatives do not embrace radical change. They want change to be incremental and gradual. Trump is determined to use every lever he can get and he says he will do that to maximize his power, and of course, you know, take action against his enemies. I mean, didnt he say at a bit of a public speech, i will be your retribution . Well, you know, thats hardly the thats hardly the language of someone who wants to bring everybody together. You see, ive always believed the role of a National Leader is to unite their nation, their country, their community. To bring people together. Now, what trump does and what, of course, victor orban, who is also hes fascinated with does the same thing in hungary, what his goal is is to divide, take advantage of those divisions, and then use that to, you know, rile up his supporters, you know, so that he can get enough support to win. And its this this is supported by the rightwing media in america, particularly fox news, what i call angercontainment and its doing unbelievable damage to your country. I mean, you live there, you know what its like. Yes. And for the rest of us, we all have a stake in your election, but we dont have a say in it. Let me ask you this, i mean, America Benefits from intelligencesharing agreements with countries like yours, five eyes all Share Threat Information and so the intelligence product that an american president sees may be a compilation of things that myriad of nations have risked their lives to present to an american president for Policy Making and to protect the country. What happens if the american president becomes someone who is not a democratic leader, whos someone that is on their way to being an autocrat. Could you imagine countries being reluctant to share their intelligence with our country . Well, you could. I think its, you know, puts enormous stress on relationships. You know, a very good friend of mine, david petraeus, has often observed the only thing worse than fighting a war with allies is fighting a war without allies. So, you know, the reality is the United States, unlike china and russia, has a broad range of alliances, nato being, i guess, the largest and most important one. When trump was president in his first term, he sought to unsettle all of those. He pulled out of some very important global agreements. The climate agreement, for example. He wouldnt participate in the transpacific partnership. Happily, shinzo abe and i were able to keep that going without the u. S. But with nato, which is the single most important in a military strategic alliance, the america is part of, he has threatened to pull out of that, and his fascination with putin, who, of course, is the adversary, really puts in question the viable of nato. Now, this is, you know, the problem with that, with these arrangements is that once you undermine the trust in them, the language and you dont have to amendment article v of nato agreement, but once people feel that the United States cannot be counted on, is not consistent, and trump actively seeks to undermine that confidence, then all sorts of terrible consequences can ensue, dictators are encouraged. Countries that have been allies and friends of the United States, moving to the pacific, may start to decide, the only way we could secure our future is to acquire our own nuclear capability. So you run the risk of nuclear proliferation. I mean, it is this disrupt chaotic approach that trump takes to establish alliances is a real threat to the security of the free world, the security of the United States, and of course, particularly, the security of americas close friends, like australia, america has no better friend than australia. But you know, we have to look at it from our point of view, is trumps america, mach 2, going to be one that we can rely on . And the truth is, we cant be sure. You know, we really cant be sure. We can cross our fingers and hope that all will go well. But you cant be sure, because this is a guy who seeks hes not a conservative, he doesnt believe in continuity or consistency. Hes in sense a revolutionary in that respect, but its a chaotic populist way of disrupting the world, and i dont see that there is any satisfactory outcome of that, except advantaging our autocratic rivals. Are you aware of Conversation S among World Leaders to figure out what to do should trump win a second term . Well, everybody is hedging. I mean trump was elected if 2016, you know, i was Prime Minister of australia. I discussed the likely you know, the Trump Presidency with many leaders. You know, from xi jinping to at least a dozen World Leaders. And the view at that point was, oh, well, hes said all of these wild things on the campaign trail, but once he gets into office, hell be institutionalized. Hell become more conventional. People used to quote that line of mario cuomo, we campaign in poetry, but we governor in prose, as Michelle Beschloss said, there wasnt a lot of poetry in the 2016 campaign but what trump in office proved was is that he was as wild in office as he was on the campaign trail. So now were faced with a really unpredictable prospect, and a guy who is hellbent, so he says out of his own lips, on his opponents and critics. And you know, it is, its a the its going to be look, there isnt a is Foreign Policy commentator in the rule who isnt writing up the prospect of a Trump Protest as a major risk to global security. So what im saying to you is effectively a penetrating glimpse of the obvious. I mean, trump is a threat to global security, because he essentially presents himself as being a threat to the established order. Former Prime Minister of australia, it is an honor to have this conversation with you. I hope it is a conversation we can continue in the coming months. Malcolm turnbull, thank you very much for spending sometime with us. Thank you. Quick break for us. Well be right back you. Quick break for us. Well be right bac n your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. E trade from Morgan Stanley power e trades easytouse tools make complex trading less complicated. 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He also said that the thing that he didnt quite say what im about to say, but he was hinting at it, is that donald trump is himself the greatest threat to security in the world and the security of the United States. And its not just because of hiding classified documents. Its because he doesnt recognize the world order, while turnbull was speaking, i kept thinking, you know, i dont think trump really understands what happened in world war ii and who won and what the consequences of it i mean, thats part of the problem of why he has never understood what nato is all about. And weve never had a world see, i think he does and doesnt care, which is scarier. I i dont know which is worse. He even told john kelly that he wanted his generals to be just like the germans. And kelly was like, which ones . And he kept a copy of hitlers speeches by his bed. Hes an anarchist. Its not that hes a radicalist, its just that he doesnt understand the world order. How the world order works on predictable. Thats why trump is such a great risk. If we go back to trumps very own words, his words, i am going to have an article ii that lets me do anything i want. Hes referring to Article Ii Of The Constitution that created the office of the presidency and it does not say you can do whatever you want. This is exactly why we have a case before the Supreme Court that shouldnt be before the Supreme Court. But he said things like, i am going to make sure we stop all theft, because if you go into a store to rob it, youll be shot and killed in the store. He said, we are going to make sure that we are rounding up all of the people he doesnt like, essentially, the radical left vermin, he called them, and take care of them. This is the language not just of an authoritarian, but someone who beyond not caring, actually cares a great deal, but the thing i think he cares a great deal is about his ability to do whatever he wants. And that is exactly why hes a danger to the world order as well as to all of us inside the country, because he does it wherever, whenever and whyever. And imagine if we had actually had an impeachment, when he had gone and tried to get zelenskyy and ukraine to do his bidding against a political opponent, imagine what we would have stemmed if, in fact, we had had a politics that said that we are going to take seriously our constitutional power, including the power of congress to make sure that were curbing this kind of behavior. Rick stangl, maya williams, im sorry we didnt have more time. Thank you for reacting with us. When we come back, despite talking, call it a good game, they thought it was a good game, republicans are working hard to block protections for iv f treatments. The dire impact theyre having on women and families is our next story. Dont go anywhere. S is our next story dont go anywhere. Up to 4,000 s with a machine that weighs less than half that. Cutting grass, clearing the way, and perfecting every inch of your land. We could keep trying to put it into words. But nothing compares to experiencing it for yourself. You just have to get in the seat. Learn more at johndeere. Com getintheseat well, im for ivf. Im proivf and its protected in law in missouri in my state and i think should be everywhere. I believe in the sanctity of every human life, i always have. And because of that, i support ivf and its availability. We should celebrate the miracle of every one of those births. Im personally glad that this issue is now at the state level where it should be. So, falls apart in a lot of places, but especially that last part, where they start to reveal themselves. Republican elected officials talking about how they love the ivf. How important ivf access is to them. After near universal outcry over the alabama Supreme Courts recent decision imperiling access to ivf. Republican State Legislators in alabama scrambling to respond, Passing Legislation Today that claims to protect doctors from civil and criminal liability after a wave of outrage from patients, providers, and people watching all around the country, horrified by the courts decision and its instant and immediate unpopularity. At the National Republican level, republican senators seemed open to supporting a bill backed by democrats to create a federal right to ivf access. But heres where their true colors are revealed, as they always are. Because if you listen closely to what theyre saying, republicans arent actually interested in protecting ivf. Their legislative actions show it. The bills that passed are unlikely to give the patients and providers the full peace of mind that they need, and last night, republican senator cindy hydesmith blocked the republicans bill by claiming that ivf actually isnt banned in alabama at all. There is something about enraging 81 of americans when you overturn a right weve had for 50 years, that it were harder to fool. And i wonder what you make of how this conversation and debate is playing out over ivf. I think in the postdobbs world, people now understand that they have a big old end game. That this was never about just going for much more. Theyre going to go for a National Abortion ban. Theyre going to go for contraception, and theyre going to go for fertility treatment, and i think what you saw in alabama, but around the country the giant reaction is because it is such an extreme idea that frozen embryos should have the same rights as children, and if they keep that idea in alabama law and if other states follow, theres no end to the types of controls this will happen on our families, on our freedoms and on our ability to decide for ourselves what we do with our bodies. The gaslighting is also just at epic levels. Let me show you Tommy Duckworth yesterday on the floor of the senate. Youre not missing something, its the nightmarish blend of hypocrisy and misogyny that you think it is. The very people who claim to be defending family values the ones trying to enact dystopian policies that would revent americans from starting their own families. This no longer a hypothetical worstCase Scenario. I cant tell you how often in my regular life people talk about the dystopian nature of the republican policy nature today. Shes putting it all out there for us, isnt she . You know, she really is, and i think shes echoing what people are saying every day. They dont understand how something that is popular and is common and is used from people in every corner of this country that suddenly and very when you think about people accessing ivf its a process already that is physically and emotionally taxing and very financially taxing, and so the idea that you will add the chaos of a legal landscape that is so uncertain on top of that, im worried about not perhaps in alabama and worried about around the country. Fatima, thank you so much for spending some time with us so we can get on the record and on the story. Well stay on it. There is news on the e. Jean carroll case and donald trump. Well tell you about it after the break. D trump. Well tell you about it after the break. For my condition called stress incontinence it really works, and the relief can last for years. Take the next step at findrealrelief. Com to arrange an appointment with an expert physician to determine if bulkamid is right for you. Results and experiences may vary. 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Otezla can help you get clearer skin, and reduce itching and flaking. With no routine blood tests required. Doctors have been prescribing otezla for nearly a decade. Otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis. Dont use otezla if youre allergic to it. Serious allergic reactions can happen. Otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. Some people taking otezla had depression, suicidal thoughts, or weight loss. Upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. With clearer skin, movie night, is a groovy night. Live in the moment. Ask your doctor about otezla. Lawyers for e. Jean carroll are hitting back against Donald Trumps request to reduce his bond in the Defamation Case where he was ordered to pay more than 80 million in the filing, attorney Roberta Kaplan telling the court this, quote, the reasoning trump offers in seeking this extraordinary relief boils down to nothing more than trust me. He doesnt offer any information about his finances or the nature and location of his assets. He doesnt specify what percentage of his assets are liquid or explain how carroll might go about collecting. Its an offer that is, quote, the court filing equivalent of a paper napkin signed by the least trustworthy of borrowers. Trump has until march 9 to either pay e. Jean carroll or appeal the judgment. Well stay on the story. Another break for us. Well be right back. Well be right back. Plan from unitedhealthcare. With this type of plan, youll know upfront about how much your care costs. Which makes planning your financial future easier. So call unitedhealthcare today to learn more about the only plans of their kind with the aarp name. And set yourself and your future self up with an aarp Medicare Supplement plan from unitedhealthcare. I was stuck. Unresolved depression symptoms were in my way. I needed more from my antidepressant. Vraylar helped give it a lift. 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