Transcripts For MSNBCW Chris 20240704

Now. Good day, im Chris Jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city, and we start with that Breaking News, a Major Political stunner. Mitch mcconnell choking up on the senate floor as he announces he is leaving the job that hes done for longer than any other senator in american history. That experience he has and his masterful gift as a political tactician gone from the gop when he steps down as Senate Leader in november. So what does that mean for the party and for congresss ability to get anything done . Also breaking, white powder found in an envelope sent to judge Arthur Engoron. Hes the one who hit donald trump with nearly a half A Billion Dollars judgment, and it comes on the same day were learning about the former president s newest attempt to get out of having to pay. And hes the witness that republicans had been trying to land for months in their Impeachment Inquiry, but hunter biden came to capitol hill armed with a blistering Opening Statement saying hes been hunted by republicans for a political House Of Cards built on lies, the high drama and contentious exchanges continuing right now Behind Closed Doors with questions coming Fast And Furious about the biden family and hunters business. So much to get to. Major Breaking News, Mitch Mcconnell walking out onto the senate floor and giving that huge announcement, he will step down as Republican Leader in november. Nbcs Garrett Haake is reporting on capitol hill. Also with us, matthew dowd, senior msnbc political analyst, and michael schmidt, New York Times washington correspondent and Msnbc National Security contributor, who is here with me on set. Okay, garrett, i didnt hear any leaks. I dont know if there were leaks out there, but what happened here . What do we know . Reporter well, look, Mitch Mcconnell is going to leave office at the end of this term, now, he says in 2026 as the most controversial and consequential senator probably of the last 50 years, probably since Lyndon Baines johnson. Part of how he has gotten there is very tight control of his message. There are no leaks from Mitch Mcconnells office. Theres nothing that appears by accident, the way we all learned about this today was an interview that he had done that was released on embargo just moments before mcconnell took to the floor to make the announcement himself. Now i think it was surprising in the moment that mcconnell chose today of all days, a wednesday at 12 30 to announce hed be leaving his leadership post this year, the senate at the end of his term, but not surprising in the general sense. He is as he pointed out, 82 years old as. As he said, father time is undefeated. He knew that he would be making decisions about his future sooner rather than later. Obviously hes had some Health Challenges over the last couple of years, that concussion last year that knocked him out of the senate for several weeks, the freezing episodes upon his return. Just within the last few weeks, his sisterinlaw died in an accident in texas that i think influenced his thinking a little bit about timing and legacy. Hes also looking at the future of the Republican Party, which will continue to be dominated by donald trump, to whom he has not spoken since late 2020. So we will surely learn more about his decisionmaking process in the hours and days to come, but i think all of those factors came into play here for a leader whos trying to end his incredible control over this body, which he has served in for longer than i have been alive on his own terms, and with a few pieces of Unfinished Business remaining, particularly towards the end of this congress, im thinking primarily of that ukraine aid, which he has been so focused on over the last couple of months, which still needs to get to the president s desk. Talk more, if you will, about your analysis of what he chose to say and maybe what he didnt say. Well, he talked a lot about the party and the body of the senate that he came into in the mid80s and the idea of kind of a Reaganite View Of The World and of america that he has tried to uphold. He talked about his view of the senate. This is a guy whose book is called the long game. When so many of his colleagues past and present came into this office, looked in the mirror and saw themselves as president , not as a senator. That was never a goal of his, and it showed in the way that he controlled this body, even from his current job as minority leader, the senate affords you that ability. He did not talk about donald trump, although he did allude to the fact that he understands as well as anyone the politics within his own party. Remember, as i said, theyve not spoken since 2020. Mcconnell was reported to have considered voting for a conviction of donald trump in the second impeachment trial, the one related to january 6th, but ultimately voted to acquit and then blistered the former president on the floor. Their relationship has never recovered, and even as other senators including his current number two john thune, who is equally perhaps trump skeptical, have come back into the fold and endorsed the former president as he seeks the office for a second time. Mitch mcconnell never has. Hes engaged in conversations or his aides have engaged in conversations about that possibility, but i think its also entirely reasonable to assume that he who understands the politics of the moment so well in this country looked around and saw a future Republican Party perhaps in the majority again in washington, perhaps not as not necessarily something he wanted to dive into with both feet as an 82yearold. The way he put it, i have many faults, misunderstanding politics is not one of them. No one would accuse him of that. So what do you make of this decision now in this moment, matthew . Well, to me its he understands now he no longer fits the Republican Party of america today. Its such a contrast, and hes such an evidence of where the Republican Party was when he first got elected in 1984 and who they were and what they stood for and where they are today and on many, many, as you know, many, many, many issues, theyre completely the opposite of what the party was in 1984 when he was elected and what it is today. And so i think its probably an acknowledgment in his own heart and mind that this party no longer exists. He obviously has other personal reasons, Health Reasons and all those other things, but i think he was the last of the sort of republicans in leadership that wasnt dragged around by the maga base, that wasnt told what to do every day and how to do it by the base of the Republican Party that donald trump seems to own. He was the last of them. There is no one else left in leadership in any Leadership Position that is willing to put their hand up and tell the maga base no or stop or im not going to do that, which is why today this is interesting why today, Mitch Mcconnells numbers among republicans, hes the most unpopular republican among republicans, Elected Official. Think about that. Hes the most unpopular republican Elected Official among republicans today. And so while he has a majority of republicans who dislike him, donald trump has 80 , 90 of republicans who love him, that in the end i think comes down to he was probably just tired of holding his hand up and trying to stop the maga from dragging the senate where it wanted to go. You know, matthew, if we accept the premise that there is nobody out there just waiting to jump in who can do the kind of things that Mitch Mcconnell has done for all these years and garrett mentioned the fact that hes probably the most powerful leader since lbj, i think back to robert carrows great book, master of the senate, which is a treatise on how to use legislative power. Is the only option the exact opposite of the reagan era, of the shining city on the hill, of an lbj . Is it only acquiescence . What does this really mean . Well, thats, i think, why this election in november is so important, and who holds the senate and then who becomes the minority or Majority Leader of the Republican Party that. Is going to be a dragout fight that weve never seen before within that caucus. And i think its going to be a fight between the people that respect the institutions of the senate who want to sort of represent what reaganism was or the old conservative Republican Party and all those senators like josh hawley, ted cruz, and so many others who are fully willing to give acquiescence to the maga wing of the party and go wherever they want to go, even if that means proputin and all the things they want to do in the course of this. That election in november is going to be one of the most telling signs of whether or not we have an institution that has sent The Republicans respect, or theyve decided to do what they did in the house, which is throw out all norms and behave in a manner that we no longer have seen in the United States senate. The United States senate was the adult in the room largely because of Mitch Mcconnell holding The Republicans. Will it become the child in the room like the House Republicans have become . Well, that is the question, in the longterm certainly, michael, but also in the shortterm. Im wondering, theyre everything from what kind of influence you wield with incredibly important negotiations coming up, for example, does government keep functioning. All the way to the talk about this behind the scenes conversations about would Mitch Mcconnell endorse donald trump . Does all of that become irrelevant now . Whats like the shortterm impact that youre seeing here . Im not sure. I mean, as matthew was laying out, i dont know what a Mitch Mcconnell endorsement of donald trump really means in the current party, especially if hes that unpopular. Im not sure that the base is really looking for Mitch Mcconnell. Now, maybe that signals something to donors and it means something to the Republican Party establishment, whatever it is. So i dont know but when you talk about Mitch Mcconnell as we are today, i think we have to think in the larger terms of his legacy and what he really means to the courts. His impact on the federal courts will be something we will be living in Mitch Mcconnells view of the courts for decades to come. Yes, he is stepping down, you know, from his position announcing that today, but going all the way back to refusing to confirm merrick garland, and then the Conveyor Belt that he was able to build from the Trump White House to his senate committees, they were able to confirm judges, not only on the Supreme Court but at the lower courts is something that i didnt i think that some members of the Republican Party never thought was so accomplishable in the way that they did it. So i want to play a little bit more of what he had to say today. First of all, just really talking about whether or not it was time for him to go, whether that was the decision he ultimately had to make. Lets play that. One of lifes most under appreciated talents is to know when its time to move on to lifes next chapter. So i stand before you today, mr. President and my colleagues, to say this will be my last term as Republican Leader of the senate. Im not going anywhere anytime soon. However, ill complete my job, my colleagues have given me until we select a new leader in november and they take the helm next january. Ill finish the job the people of kentucky hired me to do as well. Albeit from a different seat, and im actually looking forward to that. So let me go back to you, Garrett Haake. Tell me what your view is of the shortterm now and what we just heard, frankly, from Mitch Mcconnell. Obviously a very emotional day for him. Reporter yeah, im sure it is. I mean heres been in this body almost half of his life, like i said, longer than ive been alive, hes been a United States senator. We have seen it time and time again over the last several years really, over the history of the senate how difficult it is for lawmakers to understand when it is time to step away from this chamber. Its particularly hard for members in leadership. Mitch mcconnell probably hasnt driven a car in decades, all right . These are people with security details. They get flown around the country. Theyre absolutely critical to the political infrastructure of the party they support, and basically are treated as such every single day and to step back from that, even to become just a regular rank and file member of your own party again is a big step. As i mentioned earlier, he also recently suffered a loss in his family, which is the kind of thing that gets anybody thinking about their own mortality and about their own future. I want to just add something to the question that michael raised rhetorically, the idea of what does a Mitch Mcconnell endorsement give donald trump . It gives him a trophy. It gives him proof of the complete dominance that he has over the Republican Party, if he were able to essentially subjugate the last remaining elected Leader Anywhere who has opposed him, who has been mocked by trump, whose wife has beenhs not years. Im thinking about the dates going back in time here. To have someone like mcconnell after all of that history then turn around and endorse donald trump is kind of to me the one final signal, if anybody needs any more, that the Republican Party in 2024 is Donald Trumps. I want to bring in jonathan cot, former Senior Adviser to senator joe manchin. He was in the Senate Building when mcconnell made his announcement. Jonathan, tell me what that was like, what was the reaction you heard and whats your Immediate Reaction to this announcement . Iphones and text alerts were going off like crazy and, you know, everybody was shocked by it. I think Mitch Mcconnell is part of the institution of the senate. Hes been there like garrett said almost half his life, and he loves the senate. I would point out i disagree with almost everything Mitch Mcconnell has done in the senate, but he has had a Lasting Impact on not just the senate, but the country. So i think it is right now people are just looking at what this means for the Republican Party in congress. There was always this belief that donald trump was crazy and he was running the maga wing of the party and the House Of Representatives kind of went along with him, and now theyre just dug whatever he tells them, but Mitch Mcconnell was sort of the dam that, you know, held them back in the senate and wouldnt allow some of the maga insanity to come over there. I think he probably just got tired of that fight and i think the fight over ukraine aid and israel aid and taiwan aid tired him oout where he didnt want to keep doing this anymore. He was smart. Most members cannot leave. They always serve one term too many. They always stick around a few more years past their prime. I think mcconnell is stepping aside at the right time. You can disagree with everything you want with him, but he has had some Lasting Impact on our economy, our judicial system, our Campaign Finance laws. He has taken arrows for the Republican Party for the last 20 or 30 years, and hes going to be hes going to be missed in that caucus as the leader and the person who understands how it works. And there is going to be, jonathan, a lot of dissection of what this means for the Republican Party, but you work for multiple democrats, not just joe manchin, but chris coons as well. What does it mean necessarily for the Democratic Party . Was he even though folks on the left may have had a completely different view of policy than he did, someone they knew was an institutionalist, who respected kind of the level of the senate the way they played the game, not as kids as matthew pointed out. What does it mean for democrats in terms of trying to have someone who they can work with on the senate side . I think i dont know if Mitch Mcconnell wants this known, but you know, ive been in Mitch Mcconnells office more times than i care to admit with my bosses. He had an open door policy. He was not known for being bipartisan, but he was certainly known to his colleagues to work across the aisle and if you wanted to talk to him, you could walk into his office. He would take your call. He would sit down with you. He was a curmudgeon on a lot of issues, but he would definitely keep his door open when people wanted to talk. So i think a lot of democrats are going to have to figure out which one of the three johns thats going to take over for him can work best with them. I think unfortunately whichever one that is is probably not the most likely to win the race to replace him. Im not going to say which one i would prefer, because i think that would actually hurt him. I do think democrats are going to have to figure out how they work with the next leader if they want to get anything done. The senate is going to be closely divided for the next 10 or 15 years. Jonathan kott and Garrett Haake, thank you both for being with us. Matthew dowd and mike schmidt. Please stay with me. Coming up in 60 seconds, breaking Nauz On Former president trumps civil fraud trail. The judge there sent a letter containing white powder. Well explain what happened and dig into a new filing by the former president. And a Disaster Declaration in texas as wildfires scorch half a million acres and counting forcing evacuations. Those dramatic images next. One breath. Can delight them all. Protect yourself against rsv. With pfizers abrysvo a vaccine to prevent lower Respiratory Disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. Its not for everyone and may not protect all who receive it. Dont get abrysvo if youve had an allergic. Reaction to its ingredients. A weakened Immune System may decrease your response. Most common side effects are tiredness, headache, injectionsite pain and muscle pain. Ask about pfizers abrysvo®. Because every breath matters. Breaking news in the new york civil fraud case against former president trump. A source with direct knowledge tells nbc news that a letter containing a white powder sent to manhattan Supreme Court judge Arthur Engoron at his chambers today. Now, we should say that engorons mail is prescreened every day, so everyone in the office is considered safe, but that news came right after trumps lawyer said in a nearly 1,800 page motion that he will only be posting a 100 million bond, which is far below the 464 million ordered by engoron. Msnbc Legal Correspondent lisa rubin has the latest. Can we just first talk about this white powder . It seems like almost everyone who has a high profile position related to one of the trump cases has a scare, a threat, phone calls, people showing up at their house, This Is Serious stuff. This is incredibly serious stuff. And the new york d. A. s office has sort of compiled a record of all those threats to support their own motion for a gag order in advance of their trial. This is just yet another entry in their compendium of the series of threats, verbal and otherwise, launched a the participants in these various processes, chris. 464 million is what was ordered by engoron, the amount of money that he said should have to be paid but also this interest that has been accruing daily, right . Can you just say, first of all, i know you want a 464 million bond but ill give you 100 million and heres why . Youre not supposed to. In particular there is law that governs how much it will be. Here a judgment directs the payment of a sum of money. That bond is supposed to be equivalent to, if not greater than the sum of money that youve been directed to pay. The trump people acknowledge this. They say that normally speaking, they would have to pay im going to read you from the brief, to account for post judgment interest and appeals cost a surety, meaning an insurer that usually posts these kinds of bonds will often set the bond amount at 120 of the judgment or more, i. E. More than 550 i. E. More than 550 million. They acknowledge in the ordinary course that would be how much they would be required to put up. And then they have a creative argument, and their creative argument is we dont object to the independent monitor thats already been appointed here, was appointed in november of 22, to stay in her job because if that was enough to assure the Attorney General that everything would stay in place and the assets would retain their value, then pretrial, why shouldnt it be enough afterwards, plus 100 million that were willing to put up. Thats not their decision to make. No, its not. No, its not their decision to make. And they offer a sort of creative legal argument did i read that right, 1,800 page motion . Well, its 1,800 pages filed with the court. The majority of those pages is them compiing a record of what has already happened. Its basically attachments and exhibits of prior decisions and motion paper and orders and the like. Whats really new here is an affidavit from one of Donald Trumps lawyers at the beginning, and then a brief at the end thats about 40 to 50 pages long. But make no mistake, theyre acknowledging that they dont have the capacity to pay at present. Again, im going to read from the motion for our viewers. In the absence of a stay on the terms herein outlined, meaning 100 million plus the security offered by the monitor, properties would likely need to be sold to raise capital under exigent circumstances. Thats their way of saying we would have to sell off real estate assets in order to afford a bond that would normally be is this where the rubber meets the road that the potential exists that they could be ordered that he could be ordered, the company could be ordered to do that . First of all, in the ordinary course thats what the law is. He is asking for an exception to the usual operation from law. Now, i can report right now thanks to nbc newss adam reiss who rushed down to an Appeals Court for us that the parties have already had argument before an Appeals Court judge in new york state. His name is emil sing and a ruling is expected by the close of judgment today. Today. As to whether well have more briefing on this or whether trump will get in fact, get this Emergency Stay that he is demanding essentially through these motion papers. As per usual, dont go far lisa rubin, we will wait to see what happens there. A disastrous destructive scene unfolding in the Texas Panhandle with the texas a M Forest Service reporting 27 fires burning. The largest is at Smoke House Creek north of amarillo, and it has quickly become the second largest wildfire in Texas History tearing through half a million acres already, 0 contained. Nbcs sam brock is following this for us. So the governor, governor abbott, has issued a Disaster Declaration for 60 counties. So where do these fires stand now . Whats being done . So right now it looks like texas a M Forest Service has keyed in on about five fires, the largest of which you just mentioned. The Smoke House Creek fire, 500,000 acres, 0 containment, that has been the status quo for several hours. We are expecting an update from amarillo officials in the next hour or so. New information to bring to you. We just heard back from border texas officials who say there are upwards, only about 12,000 people. Its the largest in Hutchinson County. 20 homes there lost in that area. They say they are working on search and Recovery Efforts today and damage assessments, at this point, minor injuries that we know of, no confirmed fatalities at this time, but the search and recovery is ongoing. Hopefully that maintains. It is also worth pointing out theres a Disaster Declaration for 60 counties. There were 250 total, and of the 60 in that panhandle area, chris, were really talking about four or five that are just flooded with flames at the moment. As you look at these images of cattle running, youre also talking about a state that is number one in the nation for farms and ranches, about a quarter million of them, 127 million acres. So infrastructure and livestock, all of that is endangered right now. I want to play for you a bit of a combination of sounds were getting from firefighters on the ground dealing with this, what youre looking at on your screen right now. Take a listen. Multiple fronts, we cant hold it. Get out of there. Pulling out. Everybody pull out. Behind you, right behind you. I would love to have any and every resource thats available in this state right now, please. Chris, the images obviously are deeply unsettling, its our understanding right now that State Officials are getting on the ground, Hutchinson County saying they are getting those aerial drops, not just on the state level but coming in from as far away as fort worth, which is almost 300 miles, as localities, municipalities, the state pitching together to try to help residents in the harms way. Terrifying stuff, sam brock, keep us posted. Thank you for that. Ill talk to a member of texas a M Forest Service. And more Breaking News this afternoon from capitol hill, what were learning about Hunter Bidens closeddoor testimony. Thats next. Testimony. Thats next. Students. Students of any age, from anywhere. Students in a new kind of classroom. Using our technology to power different ways of learning. Harnessing ai to plant new beginnings. So when minds grow, opportunities follow. Everywhere but the seat. The seat is leather. Alan, we get it. You love your bike. We do, too. 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This morning hunter biden released a statement saying they wont find that today because his father was never involved in his businesses, period. Thats not stopping House Republicans including Oversight Committee chairman james comer who was grilled this morning by our own ryan nobles. What evidence do you have that either as Vice President or as President Joe Biden used his Political Office in any way to benefit either hunter or james bidens Business Dealings . We have evidence that joe biden met with the chinese officials but what actions did he take as a Public Official . What actions, how is this Chinese Business helped by the fact that joe biden so, let me ask you a question, you mentioned america were helped, does anyone in here question whether or not that was Influence Peddling. Thats just 30 seconds of a contentious back and forth that lasted nearly three minutes. On one side you have the far right thats going to Great Lengths to see that biden loses the election to donald trump. Some rank and file republicans see this inquiry as one more step on the road to an Election Disaster in the fall. I want to bring in nbcs ryan nobles who talked to jim comber. Michael schmidt is back with me. Ryan, whats your takeaway from your conversation with comer today . Reporter well, i think in many ways it kind of gets to the fundamental core issue that House Republicans are dealing with when it comes to this Impeachment Inquiry. In order to get to a level of high crimes and misdemeanors, you have to demonstrate that the person thats the center of your Impeachment Inquiry, the person thats the target of your republicans have had a difficult time at a base level demonstrating a direct link between joe biden and his son and his brothers Business Dealings, much less taking it to that next level and definitively showing how as either president or Vice President he actually helped those businesses achieve some sort of goal that they would need the federal governments help for. Thats what i was trying to get to the bottom of with these questions for congressman comer. Im open to the idea that they could uncover that evidence if it exist, but at this point it doesnt appear that they have. And democrats are starting to seize on that. A few of them talking mind me right now, listen to what congressman Eric Swalwell said about it earlier today. This is fourth and 20 on their own 10, and they dont have patrick mahomes. Theyre going to see the greatest sack ever when you get the transcript from this. Reporter and we understand inside the room its got contentious at time, but hunter biden has not taken the fifth at any point. Hes answered all the questions that the investigators have sent his way. So this is expected to be a lengthy deposition. It could take to well into the night before it wraps up. But its no doubt, chris, an important point in this Impeachment Inquiry as to whether or not republicans will be successful at ever bringing impeachment articles to the floor of the House Of Representatives. Yeah, when you have a situation, michael and we just learned today that alexander smirnov, the fbi informant, who was touted as the big part of their case is actually going to trial april 23rd on charges that he made the whole story up, you wonder what the path forward is and with how much of their base. Is there a part of that base that is tiring and looking to the middle who says were killing ourselves here, you know. You have the one person left in the race against donald trump whos saying take a look at the history. We are losing again and again and again. So far nikki haley hasnt broken through enough to make a difference, but is that where we are here with what were seeing today . Im not sure the facts will really drive the direction of it. After the stuff about smirnov came out, The Republicans in the house said this is just the next part of the conspiracy. They didnt accept on face value that this highly inflammatory accusation had been made up and his credibility had really been called into question, so i find it hard to believe that at this point after going on and on about this for so long that theyre just going to throw up their hands. Its really, really important to note that they havent been able to tie the president into it, no matter what they have tried and they have tried a lot of different things. You now have hunter biden under oath laying out that his father had nothing to do with his Business Dealings, not profiting from them, not an insignificant thing, and on top of that, you know, lets not forget, hunter biden still has a bunch of other real legal problems. Hes been indicted twice by the Justice Department on tax and gun charges by the Special Counsel investigating him. That has not satisfied republicans because it didnt bring the president into it. Its always been how can they bring the president into it, how can they tie the father into the sons Business Dealings. And were in the same sort of place where weve been for many months on this. They thought they had a big deal with this accusation of bribery that had come from smirnov. Thats gone away, but im not sure impeachment is. I want to play a little bit if i can of new sound we just got from capitol hill from jamie raskin and his take on what is this ongoing process right now Behind Closed Doors. Take a listen. Weve heard no evidence of treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors touching joe biden today. This investigation is absolutely running on empty. It has been a Comedy Of Errors from the beginning, and hunter biden has been very clear that his father was not involved in any way in his businesses, derived no process from his businesses and rendered no official favors or benefits to any of his businesses. So let me ask you if i can a question, ryan, about the impact that this might be having on the democratic side. Obviously we hear them as they have been defending the president , defending hunter biden, the whole process that they think is really political in nature. One thing we hear is the concern from the left, anytime his son is put in a difficult position, its difficult for the president , right . He feels this very deeply, very emotionally. The other part is democrats who say theyre killing themselves because the American People see this for what it is, which is illegitimate. What do you hear more what is the democratic message in terms of the politics of November 2024 . I think that there was a period of time where democrats attempted to just, you know, kind of brush this off. Act like it wasnt that big of a deal and just let it kind of run its own course, especially when it related to hunter biden, a lot of the activity around hunter biden was kind of confined to the conservative media ecosphere, and it was salacious, but it wasnt necessarily something they wanted to amplify or zero in on. When it became kind of central aspect of the Impeachment Inquiry and in many ways hunter biden is the most crucial figure to their theory, the case that theyre building as it relates to joe biden and any sort of Influence Peddling scheme, thats when you saw a marked change in their approach to this. They, you know, have vociferously defended hunter biden. They have defended the president. They have, you know, pointed out inconsistencies in the way The Republicans have presented information as it relates to his role in all of this, and they no longer feel that its something they can ignore. Its something they have to confront head on and weve seen them do that repeatedly. They just wrapped up the second Press Briefing that theyve had today on this hearing, which is probably not even half over yet. So, you know, theres definitely a strategy here by democrats to not ignore this but to point out wherever and every opportunity that they can, where they find the fallacy in republican arguments as it relates to this inquiry. Ryan nobles who has a long day yet ahead, thank you. Michael schmidt, my first opportunity in person to congratulate you and nicole on the baby. Hows fatherhood . Its wonderful. Its the best. Am i allowed to say what you accused your wife of . She loves to hold shes a baby hog. But who can blame her. What a beautiful child, congratulations to both of you. Thank you. Were so happy for you both. Okay, back to the real world, next the political mine field in michigans primary. Will it lead to a change in strategy for either party . The Second Amendment battle in the Supreme Court over trump eras, an expert will be here to talk about the stakes. Youre watching Chris Jansing reports reports only on msnbc. G reposrt reports only on msnbc rachel i live with a broken phone i cant trade in. female friend okay, thats dramatic. A better plan is verizon. rachel oh yeah, lets go vo save up to 1800 and trade in any Samsung Phone for a new galaxy s24 , watch and tablet, all on us only on verizon. What if you could go from this to this. With just one step tresemme silk serum. Time for the ultimate humidity test. Weightlessly smooth hair your turn. New tresemme keratin smooth collection. You always got your mind on the green. Not you. You your Business Bank account with Quickbooks Money now earns 5 apy. thats how you business differently. Intuit quickbooks. The right age for neutrogena® retinol . Thats whenever you want it to be. It has dermproven retinol that targets vital cell turnover, evens skin tone, and smooths fine lines. With visible results in just one week. Neutrogena® retinol this election is about who shares your values. Let me share mine. Im the only candidate with a record of taking on maga republicans, and winning. When they overturned roe, i secured Abortion Rights in our state constitution. When trump attacked our lgbtq and asian neighbors, i strengthened our hate crime laws. I fought for all of us struggling to keep up with the rising cost of living. Im evan low, and i approve this message for all of our shared values. Overflowing with ideas and energy. Thats the San Francisco chronicle endorsing democrat katie porter for senate over all other options. Porter is easily the most impressive candidate. Known for her grilling of corporate executives. With deep policy knowledge. Katie porters housing plan has bipartisanfriendly ideas to bring Homebuilding Costs down. And the chronicle praises her ideas to end soft corruption in politics. Lets shake up the senate. With democrat katie porter. Im katie porter and i approve this message. What do i see in peter dixon . With democrat katie porter. I see my husband. The father of our girls. I see a public servant. A man who served under secretary clinton in the state department. Where he took on the epidemic of violence against women in the congo. I see a fighter, a tenacious problemsolver. Who will go to congress and protect Abortion Rights and our democracy. Because he sees a Better Future for all of us. Im peter dixon and i big wins and big challenges, thats the takeaway from the michigan primary results, which are flashing red Warning Signs for both joe biden and donald trump as they look ahead to a General Election rematch. Because while they won overwhelmingly, cracks in party unity are showing. I came from michigan, completely divided Republican Party. Theyve lost the governors mansion, the state house, the state senate, and everything that they had. When in 2012, they were a beacon of light. You look here in minnesota, the same thing, suburban voters have decided that they are not going to vote for donald trump. So now that both sides know where those cracks are, can either candidate fix them . Nbcs Shaquille Brewster is on the ground in michigan, matthew dowd is back with us. So matthew, despite trumps commanding win, nearly 300,000 republicans voted against him in a state that he lost to biden by 150,000 votes in 2020, won by a sliver in 16. Do these cracks in party unity fuel nikki haleys argument that trump cant win a General Election, or, frankly, are they irrelevant . I know were having a topic on television, i think frankly their irrelevant on both sides actually in the course of this. You know, often because were human beings and were pattern seeking animals that like to look through the mystery and uncertainness and think we can find a pattern and attribute cause and effect. In this case, i dont think there is any. Take a look at the polls in the General Election, in the polls of the General Election, 90 of democrats vote for joe biden, 90 of republicans vote for donald trump, and so all of this sort of back and forth in whats happening in the primary, whats happening here and there is actually has already been determined to not matter because both bases, even though they may dislike to some degree the candidates that theyre nominating, theyre actually going to come home and youre going to see 90, 95 of each others base vote for that candidate in the fall. So thats interesting because shaq, youre covering the group that kicked off the states uncommitted protest campaign. Do they think this is just one victory that theyll declare because, frankly, they set a pretty low bar for themselves of 10,000 votes anyway, or do they think this has legs . Well, the organizers certainly think that this has some legs and said that theyve been talking to the folks from other states in the primary process, including minnesota and washington state. But lets be clear here, President Joe Biden did have a clear and commanding victory here in the state of michigan. He won every county in this state. He got over 80 of the vote. While that is true, it is also true that this uncommitted protest vote got more support than many people expected that it would. You mentioned they exceeded their own expectations, and they even won in a handful of cities in this state. So when you heard from organizers earlier today, they were celebrating what they believe they accomplished, but also saying that this could be an opportunity for President Biden. Listen here. There was an antiwar option on the ballot last night and yesterday, and that option was uncommitted. And in voting uncommitted, we sent a very clear message to President Biden that this community here in michigan needs him to change his policies before he comes and asks for our votes. Reporter in talking and listening to voters yesterday, its clear that not every person who voted uncommitted will no longer go and support joe biden, but they are trying to send that message, and the question is was that message received . Yeah, and i think obviously matthew, what they want is biden to cut off military aid to israel. Thats not going to happen, but could it influence the way he talks about this . Could it influence him in the sense of there is growing concern, both on the left and the right about whats happening in gaza . Well, any voice of the people that says, enunciates, even if its a small minority how they feel should influence the president and probably does. I have unbelievable confidence because of joe bidens experience in Foreign Relations both as president , Vice President , and then head of the senate Foreign Relations committee that he understands the dynamics here. I think joe biden has expressed himself and the administration, they would like to see a cease fire and do all of that in the course of this, but i think hes trying to manage this incredibly complicated situation and tragic situation in the middle east while Befriending Israel whos been an ally of ours for years, decades in the course of this, while understanding what the Palestinian People are going through in the course of this. I think he gets it, but any voice that comes from people that enunciates something they want should always be heard, but he has to do whats in the best interests of the country and figure out that in this complicated process. Matthew dowd, Shaquille Brewster, thanks, guys, appreciate it. It was the weapon used in the deadliest shooting in u. S. History. An ar15 with a bump stock used to kill 58 people in the span of ten minutes at a 2017 las vegas music festival. A loss of life so shocking bump stocks were banned. Well, today the Supreme Court is weighing whether that ban should stay. Nbcs ken dilanian is following this from washington, d. C. What did we hear from the justices today, following this from washington, d. C. What did we hear from the justices today, ken . Chris, we heard a lot of sympathy on both sides about the idea behind banning this device but not a lot of agreement about whether the law permits the government to do that. This isnt a case about the Second Amendment. The long standing ban on machine guns has been upheld as constitutional. This is a case of whether the Executive Branch exceeded its authority by reinterpreting the law to cover bump stocks. The argument is on the technical issue of how bump stocks work and whether theyre mechanism fits the definition of a machine gun under law. Many appeared skeptical of the technical argument against the ban. The Biden Administration argues that a bump stock clearly converts a Semiautomatic Rifle into a machine gun by allowing it to Fire Hundreds of rounds per minute with a single pull of the trigger by the user. The opponents of the ban point out that what the bump stock actually does is facilitate rapid pulls of the trigger when the user squeezes, the trigger is depressing over and over faster than a human. Take a listen to Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson on this point. I guess i need a reason why theres something inherently so much worse about a situation in which you push it forward rather than pull it back that we can reasonably say that that was a particular category that congress wanted to prohibit . And thats what im missing in your argument. It doesnt make sense to me that were going to identify guns on that purpose and say those are the ones that are prohibited when others that achieve the same result are not. Its because the statute was written in 1934 and congress wasnt thinking about bump stocks. Thats the issue. Can this 1934 law cover this device that wasnt even conceived back then, chris, and well have to wait and see. Ken dilanian, thank you. Joining me now is chris brown, president of brady united against gun violence. Let me go back to where all of this began because thats the person who brought this case. You were in vegas after the attack. You have talked about the damage done in just ten minutes. Put it in perspective what it meant that this ar15 had a bump stock versus one that didnt . Thanks, chris, and thanks for having me. Yeah, i was in vegas the day after that horrific shooting, and to walk around that field where the concert was taking place and understand that we had a shooter more than three Football Fields away on a high, elevated plane using 14 assault style weapons all fitted with bump stocks for a reason. Bump stocks rapidly increase fire from a weapon. The technical reasons for doing that were covered well in the arguments that i listened to before the court today. The impact is the same as a machine gun. And thats why the shooter chose that, and thats why its appropriate that the Trump Administration took Executive Action after the deadliest shooting in our nations history to stop what an nra member described that bump stocks create, massive kill zones. I know as a mother and as an american who travels this country what americans want is for us to use all of the powers that we can to keep them safe and stop making weapons that are the mass shooters weapon or accessory of choice. Bump stocks fit that. I was also in las vegas, and as somebody who has covered far too many mass shootings, even going there, the shocking nature of exactly what you say, the size of three Football Fields, where the shooter was, but even after the ban, you said you thought that this could be subject to legal challenges. And i wonder if you were able to listen to some of the arguments today, and what you heard . Thanks, chris. Yes, well, every gun law that we pass in this country is subject to legal challenge because Gun Manufacturers fueling the National Shooting Sports Foundation and the nra actually bring legal claims for every Common Sense Law we pass, so this is no different. What i heard today in the arguments back and forth among justices to include questions from amy coney barrett, kavanaugh, Ketanji Brown jackson that you noted, a lot of it seemed to focus on the anticircumvention aspects of this law. What do i mean by that . You dont want to have an act, the National Firearms act in this case passed in 1934 Banning Machine Guns when similar kinds of devices to modify existing firearms and turn them into machine guns can be legally manufactured and purchased. So a number of the questions that i heard being asked today from justices across the spectrum were asking about that, and i think the Assistant Solicitor General did an excellent job showing that if this particular Executive Action is not upheld, you will create a twotiered system in this country. One, under the 1934 firearms act in which machine guns are effectively banned, except in very discreet circumstances. And another through the market for bump stocks where anyone who wants to convert a firearm into a machine gun can do so. And i think there was a lot of skepticism raised about that twotiered system, and so we feel pretty optimistic, i have to say, after listening to the arguments today. So we will see what happens, but kris brown, its great to have you and your expertise as part of our program today. Thank you. Thank you. Next hour, a Heartbreaking March across israel. Families of hostages held in gaza join together in grief to demand the release of their loved ones. 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Taking a stand in alabama, patients, doctors and families come together after a Controversial Court decision threatening