as an artist, i needed to do something different and challenge myself. >> reporter: braugher's costars remembering him. terry cruz writing you showed me what a life well lived looks like. braugher with 61 years old and leaves behind his wife of over 30 years, actress amy rapson and three sons. in a 2020 variety interview, he said that fatherhood was his most important role. i wanted to be there through the course of their life because i know how important fathers are. chloe melas, nbc news, new york. >> thank you for the laughs, andre. you will be missed. and on that very sad note, i wish you a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc, thanks for staying up late. i will see you at the end of tomorrow. ♪ ♪ ♪ , donald trump, the one that was most likely to be completed before the 2024 election, the special counsel jack smith's federal election interference case today, it effectively came to a standstill. it was frozen, or in legal terminology, its deadlines were stayed. two weeks ago, the judge in that case, judge tanya chutkan, denied trump's claim that the entire case would be null and void because of, quote, presidential immunity. trump's lawyers immediately appealed that decision and asked judge chutkan to stay the case until the appeals court can rule on the question of immunity. today, judge chutkan granted that request and she clarified exactly what that means for the future of this case. if jurisdiction is returned to this court, the court will, consistent with its duty to ensure both a speedy trial and fairness for all parties, consider at that time whether to retain or continue the dates of any still future deadlines and proceedings, including the trial scheduled for march 4th, 2024. so this case is on hold until the immunity question makes its way through the appeals process. once that is done, judge chutkan will see whether the trial schedule still works, or if it has to be delayed. that means that the final decision on this appeal and how quickly that decision is made is very much a live issue that could potentially delay or even destroy the special counsel's case altogether. but jack smith is not just rolling over here. earlier this week, smith asked the supreme court to take up the issue directly. and as soon as possible to try to head this whole thing off at the pass. trump's lawyers have another week to respond to that request. but even if going straight to the highest court in the land does not expedite the process here, mr. smith is working on the lower level courts as well. on monday, smith asked the d.c. circuit court of appeals to fast-track its appeals process on this immunity question. and today, trump's legal team filed their response. now, you would think that trump 's lawyers might want their own appeal heard and decided on as soon as possible if they thought they would win it. and apparently they do not. they want a delay. because that is their main strategy in all of this. let me read you one of the actual arguments in court today in their formal filing to the d.c. circuit court of appeals. this proposed schedule what and support staff, and evidently disrupting family and travel plans. it is if the special counsel growled with his grinch fingers nervously drumming and must find some way to keep christmas from coming. it is one of the most spectacularly unserious legal arguments i've ever heard. and one of the most serious cases this country has ever grappled with. they literally called jack smith the grinch. and the whole thing is extra comical, when you think about how this entire case is about trump's actions in the lead up to january 6th. when trump and his lawyers worked around the clock, through the holidays, to try to overturn the results of the 2020 election. for example, on the last night of hanukkah, in 2020, december 18th, sidney powell, michael flynn, rudy giuliani, they all pitched trump conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory in a, quote, unhinged west wing meeting. the same night, the last night of hanukkah, trump asked his followers to come to d.c. on january 6th saying be there, will be wild. on christmas eve, trump lawyer john eastman wrote his infamous memo explaining how vice president pence could stop the certification of the vote on january 6th. on the first night of christmas, the federal indictment alleges that trump asked pence to overturn the 2020 election on christmas day. on the third night of christmas, december 27th, trump implored top justice department officials to just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest of the republican congressman. on the day after new years, trump was on the phone with georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger, asking him to find trump nearly 12,000 votes. how do they find time throughout the presidents or fill the stockings? was there no christmas ham that year? apparently in trump world, it is fine to work over the holidays if the work is trying to overthrow american democracy. but when the work is the most important legal case in modern american history, suddenly, jack smith is the literal grinch. attorneys need eggnog as well, you know? special counsel is amazingly already ahead of even this argument. within hours of the trump grinch filing, the special counsel's office immediately filed their response and asked the appeals court to respond tonight. and the d.c. circuit court did just that. the trump team's legal work will now be due on december 23rd, two days before christmas, eight days after the last night of hanukkah, and three days before kwanzaa. plenty of time for gingerbread houses. and if trump's legal team still has gripes with the 23rd of december, i would like to remind them that on december 23rd of 2020, not only did trump have time to pardon 26 people, clint paul manafort, roger stone, and charles kushner, but trump also have time to call the lead investigator in georgia secretary of state's office -- to look for wrongdoing in the election results, and telling her she would be praised when the right answer comes out. it is abundantly clear that mr. trump does not, but every who in whoville wants to quit the delay stuff a lot. joining me now is former u.s. attorney and senior fbi official who's known msnbc contributor and msnbc legal analyst,. our not-so-secret in, lisa reuben. chuck and lisa, i will ask you, lisa, are you preferential, do you prefer the lorax or the cat in the hat, in your legal briefings or is the grinch the go-to? >> i think that this is more like green eggs and ham when i was thinking about tonight. trump's lawyers are the sam i-am of their own situation. and leslie trying to have this internally contradictory story, and yet all of the judges they encounter, unlike the character in the seuss book, do not want to eat green eggs and ham and yet they don't give up. >> yes. first, i mean, i will ask you both, chuck, let me go to you here. i am not a lawyer. i say this all the time, i didn't go to law school, but citing the grinch and making the excuse that an appeals process shouldn't be expedited because people need to celebrate the christmas holidays seems farfetched to me. what was your reaction? >> i thought it was juvenile, i'm glad you went to lisa first, because she was obviously well prepared on the doctor seuss references. i'm not. i will tell you this. on any holiday, military officials, federal law enforcement officials, intelligence officials, are working. that's what they do. they work. because the work is important, and the work is necessary. so the notion that the most important criminal case in the country can't be litigated by attorneys over the holidays is juvenile and nonsensical and that was my reaction. by the way, calling people names in legal pleadings really doesn't get you any sort of traction. jack smith ignored it, and the courts will ignore it, i promise you that. >> i don't think this even plays to trump's base. just the idea that jack smith is a grinch-like figure. setting it aside for the minute, i wonder what you make of the appeals decision tonight. just a few hours ago to move this thing forward. three judge panel, two of them appointed by biden, one appointed by george h. w. bush. >> i think it is very interesting that they made the decision to move this along, particularly given that the supreme court has already set a deadline for trump to submit his brief, and opposition to the petition that jack smith has put before them. we've talked before about this two track approach that jack smith is trying to pursue. now, we've got a three-day window. in between trump's two briefs being two, his supreme court brief do on the 20th, his supreme court brief to the d.c. circuit do ten days from now the 23rd. at the supreme court wants to be what we would call good colleagues, they will make a decision whether to grant served in that three-day window. >> to grant search, affectedly saying we are going to rule on this immunity question? >> yes, and if we are going to rule on this many questions, that obviates the need for any further ruling in the d.c. circuit, to get three court's supreme. >> right, the highest court in the land. how do you read the decision here, chuck? is this d.c. court of appeals hedging its bets against the supreme court and what they are going to, given the sort of different make ups on these two courts? >> i am glad that it is proceeding on a parallel track. i think that's appropriate. i mean, both courts were asked to expedite this important question. that is what they are doing. i don't know if they were hedging their bets. i think the best solution, of course, is for the supreme court to take the case now. i mean, they are gonna get it eventually, one way or another, but to take the case now and resolve the issue. it's not a frivolous issue. i think the current winds it, in fact, and really confident that the government wins it. but since it's going to be litigated in front of the supreme court, let's do it now, let's resolve it as quickly as possible, and let the parties go back to judge chutkan, the trial judge in d.c., and hit the play button again and get the case moving. that seems like the most logical thing to me. >> yeah, i mean, no matter what, judge chutkan has issued a state. the thing is frozen in time. >> that's right. >> as it stands right now. and i wonder, a, you think that is on the part of to chutkan, and all this part of trump's broader goal of delaying everything here? >> it's not surprising in the fact that jack smith thought was the right result, that an appeal on a motion to dismiss where the questions are presented are ones of constitutional import. his presidential immunity argument is effectively a constitutional one. he's saying yes, i acknowledge that that deprives the trial court of jurisdiction and things have to pause. at the same time, what is notable about judge chutkan's decision today is her carving out room for her still to exert some authority over the gag order, which she can still enforce and over trump's conditions of release. those are the rules by which he has to play as a free person having been criminally indicted. and over the protective order that governs the voluminous discovery that he complained of in his brief to the d. c. circuit today. that means as i was telling one of our colleagues today, trump can't walk into a hallway like regina george in her mean girl burn books photocopies, to discover into the public domain and let everybody see that which jack smith, and the department of justice don't want us to have vantage points and two at this point. >> and it all has to stay effectively under wraps. but chuck, the jury selection in this seems like it should be a prolonged process and that has to stop while this appeals court plays out, right? i would assume that is meaningful time that the judge is losing here and at the special counsel's office is losing. >> potentially. that is a problem. i think that lisa described it correctly. there are things that will remain in place. the case didn't evaporate, it didn't disappear, it simply paused. the protective order, the gag order and other things like it remained in place. but the parties cannot go back in front of judge chutkan and continue to litigate other matters, like picking a jury while the case is on appeal. so you're right, jury selection will be paused. obviously, very important, in a case like this, somewhat cumbersome. and that's where you begin to see the potential delay tactics taking hold and taking effect. so the quicker that this gets resolved and it gets back to a point we were discussing earlier, the quicker the supreme court hears the case and decides it, the faster judge chutkan can go back, hit the play button, and resume all the things you need to do before trial, like picking a jury. i don't know that the march trial date is doomed, but it certainly endangered. >> that's going to be -- i mean, it's hard to hear that given the fact that this case is in many ways the best shot of the country has of determining whether or not the president, the former and potentially future president of the united states, is a felon. double jeopardy is another case that trump lawyers are making, alongside the presidential immunity claim. they're saying that effectively because trump was already impeached for actions around january 6th, he can't be held accountable again. that's kind of been waived. i feel we waved off that as a viable form of defense. but this reports it is going to rule on that. how do you -- what you make of the double jeopardy defense? >> you know, when chuck was saying earlier that the issues that trump is presenting here are serious, they are serious. and they are issues a first impression for the supreme court. however, between the two, between a sort of, like, structural absolute presidential immunity argument it is double jeopardy argument, i don't think it's a serious argument to say because he was impeached but not convicted by the senate he can't be criminally prosecuted. there is nothing, has just checked and said in her decision, in the text, structure, or history the constitution that would demand that result. and in fact, this provision in the constitution, the impeachment judgment clause, that would lead you to the opposite conclusion based on its plain text. >> well, i mean, if anything, it's the trump team throwing spaghetti at the wall and the fact of the supreme court, this is such a, like, difficult metaphor, is scraping all the spaghetti potentially off the wall at the same time by decide to take all of it out seems meaningful here. chuck rosenberg, i'm sorry we sprung all the dr. seuss trivia on you without all adequate proposition. you passed it with flying colors. lisa reuben -- thank you for your time. we have a lot more ahead tonight. abortion is back before the supreme court. what the justices are considering and how their decision could impact women, even in states where abortion is legal. but first, the impossible logic behind house republicans newly launched impeachment inquiry against joe biden. congressman adam schiff joins me on that, coming up next. stay with us. stay with us as americans, there's one thing we can all agree on. the promise of our constitution and the hope that liberty and justice is for all people. but here's the truth. attacks on our constitutional rights, yours and mine are greater than they've ever been. the right for all to vote. reproductive rights. the rights of immigrant families. the right to equal justice for black, brown and lgbtq+ folks. the time to act to protect our rights is now. that's why i'm hoping you'll join me today in supporting the american civil liberties union. it's easy to make a difference. just call or go online now and become an aclu guardian of liberty. all it takes is just $19 a month. only $0.63 a day. your monthly support will make you part of the movement to protect the rights of all people, including the fundamental right to vote. states are passing laws that would suppress the right to vote. we are going backwards. but the aclu can't do this important work without the support of people like you. you can help ensure liberty and justice for all and make sure that every vote is counted. so please call the aclu now or go to my aclu.org and join us. when you use your credit card, you'll receive this special we the people t-shirt and much more. to show you're a part of the movement to protect the rights guaranteed to all of us by the us constitution. we protect everyone's rights, the freedom of religion, the freedom of expression, racial justice, lgbtq rights, the rights of the disabled. we are here for everyone. it is more important than ever to take a stand. so please join us today. because we the people means all the people, including you. so call now or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty. i got this $1,000 camera for only $41 on dealdash. dealdash.com, online auctions since 2009. this playstation 5 sold for only 50 cents. this ipad pro sold for less than $34. and this nintendo switch, sold for less than $20. i got this kitchenaid stand mixer for only $56. i got this bbq smoker for 26 bucks. and shipping is always free. go to dealdash.com right now and see how much you can save. i'm a little anxious, i'm a little excited. i'm gonna be emotional, she's gonna be emotional, but it's gonna be so worth it. i love that i can give back to one of our customers. i hope you enjoy these amazing gifts. oh my goodness. oh, you guys. i know you like wrestling, so we got you some vip tickets. you have made an impact. so have you. for you guys to be out here doing something like this, ♪ ♪ ♪ it restores a lot of faith in humanity. regarding my battle -- during my battle with addiction, my parents were there for me. they literally saved my life. in the deaths of my addiction, i was extremely irresponsible with my finances. but to suggest that is grounds for an impeachment inquiry is beyond the absurd. it is shameless. there is no evidence to support the allegations that my father was financially involved in my business, because it did not happen. there is no fairness or decency in what these republicans are doing. >> that was hunter biden today outside of the u.s. capitol, taking accountability for his actions and calling out republicans for a sham impeachment. hunter biden is facing nine charges of tax evasion in california and three gun charges in the state of delaware. now, in any normal election cycle, republicans would be everywhere, talking about the president son any swirl of tax evasion gun charges. but this is not a normal election cycle and republicans have spent the last three years telling their base that the biden family is orchestrating some kind of grand criminal conspiracy, a conspiracy that directly implicates president biden in all kinds of nefarious acts. as it stands, they have precisely zero evidence to backup that claim. but that has not stopped republicans from raising expectations sky-high. and now, they are in a real bind. the very real charges against hunter biden kind of pale in comparison to what conservatives have been promising. and so, republicans, and conservative media, are actually downplaying the crimes of hunter biden is charged with, claiming those charges are actually an effort to cover up the much bigger, and so far imaginary crimes, of president joe biden. >> they've been sitting on this potential indictment. why do they release it now? is this a further cover-up? i'm just wondering of the timing of this indictment on hunter biden's is partly covered up. >> i totally agree. the timing is suspect. >> these are supporters of joe, who are pushing hunter in front of a bus and saying, okay, we've got to feed the masses a little bit to keep them off of joe's sent. it does have a bit of a feeling of the biden folks creating bad news to cover up other bad news. >> and the fact that they're covering this up, sean, it's not only the crimes the bidens are committing, it's the cover-up. >> lies may have indicted hunter biden to protect him from -- lead the probe in the house oversight committee on wednesday. >> yes, they indicted him to protect him. yes, the classic rubric. >> the republican theory of the case here is laughable. even the most generous reading of it makes no sense. but republicans are still hanging on to this theory as the basis for an impeachment inquiry into joe biden. tonight, the house voted along party lines, 221 to 212, to open a formal impeachment inquiry into the president, despite having no evidence of long -- of wrongdoing. every republican, including the so-called moderates in swing districts voted in favor of it. so how does this end? what do republicans do now that they have opened this door with promises to expose some grand plot when there is no reason to believe that grand plot actually exists? and how do democrats respond? i will talk to congressman adam schiff, who led trump's first impeachment about all of that, coming up. coming up. the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50. it's lying dormant, waiting... and could reactivate. shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. and it could wake at any time. think you're not at risk for shingles? it's time to wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. ♪ the winter play was really coming together. ♪ until... disaster struck. ♪ tensions... were high. ♪ luckily, replacement costumes were shipped with fedex. which means mr. harvey... could picture the perfect night. ♪ we're delivering more happy for the holidays. ♪ the house has now spoken. and i think pretty loudly, pretty clearly, with every single republican voting in favor of moving into the official impeachment inquiry phase of our constitutional duty to do oversight. so when a majority of the house goes on record in support of an official impeachment inquiry, and the power that sully resides in the house representatives, this impeachment power, i think it sends a message. >> as congressman jim jordan points out, every single house republican, all 221 of them, voted to formally open an impeachment inquiry into president biden. and yes, it sure does send a message. but perhaps not the one mr. jordan thinks it does. joining me now is congressman adam schiff of california, member of the house judiciary committee. he also served as the lead house manager in donald trump's first impeachment trial. congressman schiff, thank you so much for being here. i -- we are told, those of us on the outside of the house representatives, that there are these phantom republican moderates who understand the gravity of watch this impeachment inquiry represents and the tenuous position they have as republicans from districts that joe biden won in 2020. and yet, they still voted for this. what do you make of the entire republican conference supporting an impeachment inquiry? >> well, they are cowards. i think you can fairly say of the so-called moderate republicans in the house, they're always there when you don't need them. but when there's actually something of consequence, they cave. you know, they spent years, and particularly, this year, investigating joe biden that came up with nothing. and they admitted as such. so now, they're gonna have a formal impeachment inquiry so that you can find even more of nothing. they don't know what they are looking for. they don't know what crimes the even want to suggest joe biden committed. all they do know is donald trump wants this. donald trump needs this. donald trump is going to make their life difficult if they don't give it to him. those moderate republicans do not want donald trump coming after them and ginning up a primary against them. and so, they are going to do this to dilute the stain of his former impeachment, to gratify their master at mar-a-lago. they also know that they have no affirmative positive agenda for the country that even their own members can agree on. they are doing nothing on housing cost, they are doing nothing on health care, they're doing nothing on climate, they're doing nothing on guns. they can't agree among themselves on any policy. so what are we doing? what have we spent the year doing? well, they censured me for leading trump's impeachment. they vacated their own speaker's chair. and now, they want to begin an impeachment proceeding against joe biden. this is how they're occupying the nation's time, when there are serious challenges, like funding ukraine and israel, that we should be doing. >> you make mention of the master down at mar-a-lago. and it seems this is pretty obvious it is in service to the man they call orange jesus inside the republican conference. and yet, it is sort of a strand strategy. if the point is to humiliate biden by impeaching him, to give him that scarlet letter, it only brings up the fact that trump himself has been impeached twice. like, how do you even begin to talk about this on the campaign trail without inevitably ending up back in the place you want to pretend doesn't exist, which is trump got impeached twice? >> well, what they hope to do is muddy the waters. they hope to persuade people, oh, you know, trump was impeached twice, but it was just politics. and now, we are going to impeach biden. and that's just politics. they are going to try to, you know, what about-ism, they're going to try to establish some kind of false equivalence, when there is no equivalence. donald trump was impeached for his own abuse of power, for his own commission of high crimes and misdemeanors, for withholding hundreds of millions in military aid for ukraine while that nation was at war, to extort zelenskyy into helping smear his opponent. in the first impeachment, after inciting a violent attack on the capitol, and the second impeachment, his actions, his misconduct, is abuse of power, his constitutional high crimes and misdemeanors, by contrast, they're proceeding with an impeachment inquiry into joe biden based on hunter biden, based on hunter biden's conduct, which they have not been able to tie to the president. it can be a more stark contrast. but they hope that if they throw up enough chaff, maybe they can confuse the public and essentially persuade people that what donald trump did they should discount, because everybody does it. >> you mentioned hunter biden. and we played a little bit of sound from his remarks outside the capitol this morning. i found it actually really effective and somewhat moving to hear someone who's been grappling with addiction sort of take ownership of his wrongdoing. and i wonder how, a, what your reaction to his comments, his remarks was, and also how important it was to hear from hunter biden in the middle of all of this. >> you know, i did think it was pretty powerful. it reminded me too of a voice mail i think the republicans leak sometime ago of the president leaving a message for his son that he loved him, he knew he was going through a hard time, that he was there for his son. and i remember watching the republicans push this out, and thinking, why did they think that this is going to somehow engender support for the gop among the public? i think the public is going to see a father concerned about his son. and there are enough people in the country that have had tragic experience, and their families with loved ones with substance abuse, addiction, that, you know, attacking a father for being a father i don't think is a good political strategy. but i do think part of it, alex, is they know the president loves his son. and this is a way to hurt the president, not just politically, but you heard him personally. and in that sense, the republican conference and the congress is just like donald trump. donald trump loves to hurt people in the way that he thinks is most effective to wound them. it is fundamentally indecent aspect of trump's very malignant personality, and here you see republicans emulating it. >> yeah, the cruelty is the point, which -- at the atlantic, and it stands true for the entire republican conference in a moment like this. congressman schiff, given how organized the democrats were, how much evidence they had before they began their impeachment inquiry, what are the implications for an impeachment inquiry that's going off to find the evidence, just in terms of the timeframe we're operating under, the amount of cost to the american taxpayer, and like, what they actually come up with, which may not have anything to do with any of the things that they are talking about at this moment? >> you know, i think the biggest costs to the american people are the opportunity costs. that is, while they occupy all the time and the attention of the house with these impeachment proceedings and contempt proceedings and vacate the speaker proceedings and expulsion proceedings, they are not dealing with the nation's problems. we're about to break for the holidays and there's a war going on in ukraine, there's a war going on in the middle east. and congress is failing to act. and so, the biggest cost is the opportunity cost. but i think they're also setting themselves up for a terrible in because these things have a way of gaining momentum, now that they've started this inquiry, donald trump is going to insist it come to a conclusion with an impeachment that they probably don't have the votes for. and so, they're going to be in a position of either disappointing trump, disappointing their maga fox viewing base, having set up all these expectations, they're either going to have to say, sorry, there was no there there, or try to force a vote, force these vulnerable republicans to vote and potentially lose that vote. but it's frankly a loser for the country anyway they take it. >> a loser for the country from the least productive, the second least productive congress and modern american history. congressman adam schiff, thank you for your time and wisdom tonight. i appreciate it. >> thank you. still ahead this evening, it has been 1.5 years since the supreme court overturned the constitutional right to an abortion. and already today, the justices have decided that they might go get back to it once again. more on the new case the high court as decide to review. that's next. that's next. i got this $1,000 camera for only $41 on dealdash. dealdash.com, online auctions since 2009. this playstation 5 sold for only 50 cents. this ipad pro sold for less than $34. and this nintendo switch, sold for less than $20. i got this kitchenaid stand mixer for only $56. i got this bbq smoker for 26 bucks. and shipping is always free. go to dealdash.com right now and see how much you can save. i love that my daughter still needs me. but sometimes i can't help due to burning and stabbing pain in my hands, so i use nervive. nervive's clinical dose of ala reduces nerve discomfort in as little as 14 days. now i can help again. feel the difference with nervive. he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ >> today, the supreme court agreed to hear a case that could decide future access to a pill used in more than half of abortions in this country, mifepristone. antiabortion activists have been seeking to limit its use, if not take it off the market completely. and now, the supreme court is going to decide whether mifepristone will still be accessible via telemedicine and through the mail up to ten weeks of pregnancy, or whether pregnant women, many of whom now live in abortion deserts, will have their access to the pill cut off at seven weeks of pregnancy and are required to have several in-person doctor visits to obtain a prescription. the high court now finds itself in the awkward position of ruling on abortion 18 months after it decided that the matter should be left to the states. oral arguments are expected early next year, and the justices could rule by the end of june. joining me now is aryan carmen, senior correspondent for new york magazine. thank you for being back here. it's whiplash, every other day there is some heinous infringement on reproductive rights. and now the high court is taking mifepristone. first let's talk, irin, sort of about what these potentially new reimpose restrictions could mean for people seeking access to abortion. mifepristone available only in tool seven weeks of pregnancy seems meaningful. >> right, and who can prescribe it and the manner in which it can be prescribed. >> telemedicine or by mail. >> exactly. i think the big picture here -- of course, this is an administrative law case. but before you fall asleep, anyone watching this, this is about a blue state abortion ban. the deer wish of the people who concocted this case out of whole cloth have invented standing, they are antiabortion doctors who brought the case, despite the fact they do not ever prescribe this pill, and i can't find any harm to people who access the bill. they are doing so because they understand that this pill, the more you restrict it, or let's put it this way, this pill represents freedom, it represents privacy. and states where abortion is restricted, people have been able to say, drive right across the border, get this pill from a mobile clinic, from a truck, through the mail to a p.o. box. they understand that abortions have actually gone up since dobbs because of increased access. and a huge part of that is that the privacy, the quickness, the lack of multiple visits that is represented by this highly safe drug -- >> mifepristone? >> yes, mifepristone and met for profitable, taken in combination. they understand that what they need to be doing is restricting in places like here in new york, california, new mexico, colorado, that have become havens for people living in abortion restrictive states. so, what they really wanted to do, and this is so crazy, is get a time machine, go back to 2000, and say that all the approval of this bill, which again, 24 years almost ago, should be undone. now, the big thing that happened today is the supreme court saying, okay, that is too crazy. >> we are not going back to the original approval of this drug, back in 2000. >> they would dearly love for that to happen. and if they could, they would take away the option that more than half of abortion patients prefer. so they take this halfway step, we're like the fifth circuit kind of try to have it both ways, isn't based in science, is it based on what's safe, is it based in process? it does not appear to be the case. so the question is, is the supreme court coming into say, okay, this is absurd, or coming into say let's make up yet another compromise and color selves moderate on this issue? >> right, the compromise being rollback the regulations to what they were in 2018. >> that are working just fine. >> right. >> and would have profound effects, because in 2018, there were not abortion deserts in the united states. mifepristone wasn't as important or critical as it is today. >> and alex, there's been a whole body of research in recent years about, do people understand how to take this safely? can they do telemedicine in order to find out where they are in their pregnancy, whether they're contraindicated? a large body of research has been built up to show that this is very safe for people to take in these ways. so not only is there is a need, there's also demonstrated realization that this is a safe option. and it's a safe option for people who are getting it legally, and also people who are forced to take matters into their own hands. >> when you look at the core and what it did in dobbs, i think a lot of people are considerably worried about how they might rule on this, they're taking up the issue of standing though. which, i mean -- how do you interpret this sort of way in which the court is saying it's going to rule on this? >> while, to be fair to the court, typically if you say the supreme court is going to take an abortion case, you want to crawl under this table. but the fifth circuit did create the situation that the supreme court didn't allow to go into effect that would've limited it. so it's actually kind of good news for the supreme court to take this up, if they choose. were they not to take it off, then those restrictions will go into effect. should they choose to undo the fifth circuit opinion. but what's also good news is they have not even taken seriously what the conservative christian soldier of the district court did, which was to take at face value that the entire approval of this drug should be undone. so there is a chance that this is kind of conditionally good news. the standing question of, like, these doctors -- >> antiabortion activists. >> these doctors cannot show that there's any harm to them, can they show in any way they deal mifepristone, can they show their harm to the patients either. but it may be necessary for them to come in and say, look, we're not gonna talk to the standing issue, but we are going to say whether the fifth circuit is right or not. and at least they have not put the entire approval of the drug on the table. and i think it's a sign. you know, the supreme court went so far by going even further than what they are initially asked to do in overturning roe v. wade. and maybe that even they realize that this blowback is something that they now need to kind of moderate a little bit, even on this issue. >> coming on two days or three days after the case in texas were a woman is forced out of the state because the texas supreme court says she's not dying enough to have an abortion. i mean, it's just an appalling turn of events. maybe it resonates with the court, we will see. irin carmon, tank you as always, my friend, for your thoughts and great analysis on this. >> thank you. still ahead this evening, the new deal that some officials are calling the beginning of the end of fossil fuels. we'll talk to journalist david wallace-wells about what the cop28 climate summit was able to accomplish, and what it left undone. that's next. when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you... and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying 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the agreement, reassuring negotiations for cop28 in dubai, it's not legally binding. it cannot force any action. instead, it calls upon nearly 200 countries to transition away from fossil fuels and energy systems in a just, orderly, an equitable manner, into triple the amount of renewable energy by 2030. today, president biden called the agreement a historic milestone, and a u.n. climate official dubbed it the beginning of the end for fossil fuels. but critics say the language of the agreement does not go nearly far enough, and they fear it will allow wealthier countries, who amid the most fossil fuels, to continue delaying significant action. joining me now is david wallace-wells, opinion writer for the new york times and author of the uninhabitable earth, life after warning. david, thank you for being here. i don't want to rain on the parade a mediately. like, this seem like a step. you're like, no. >> it took 30 years. >> that is not hardening. but the fact that there is this idea that the word fossil fuels has been uttered publicly is something that needs to be, if not phased out, turned away from. how did you understand that language? and how meaningful is this? >> i think it's a sign that a lot of these processes, maybe the paris one aside, are following the science and following the markets rather than leading. in this way, i think that we know 50 years from now, 70 years from now, fossil fuels are going to be a very small part of our economy, if they are there at all. and the next couple of decades are going to be dominated by renewable build out, not fossil fuel build out. we sort of know that in the near future. the question is how quickly can we get to zero. and on that point, i don't think this agreement does much. tripling renewable energy is good. it's a little bit and probably most people were projecting going into the conference. we don't know if we are going to hit those targets. but if we do, it will be progress. but on its own, it won't be sufficient to limit warming to the levels that we've been saying was necessary to prevent some really grim catastrophic outcomes. and i think one legacy of this conference will be we may look back at it and say it was the moment that we all realized that we were not going to hit those targets. >> yeah. what do you think it actually looks like to turn away, i mean, practically speaking, there is what we want to do, what we are on track to do, and what it really looks like to go to get off of fossil fuels. what do you in sort of your expert opinion think that sort of looks like? >> i think a low hanging fruit are the things we already know how to do. we basically know how to provide power and electricity. we know how to drive our transportation in non fossil fuel ways. we're not doing that. yeah you know, the fossil fuel still dominate the global power sector. most cars on the road are still internal combustion vehicles. but we know the transition looks like, it probably means fewer gassed asians and people charging the cars on their solar panels on the roofs. the challenge stuff is what are we got to do about heavy industry, agriculture, aviation? and these are things we don't have such easy solutions for. so probably on that, front it's more are in the. but we have a little time to do that our andy. the thing that we don't have time to do is really dramatically and quickly replace fossil fuels with renewable resources in the areas that we know how to fix right now, which is to say essentially power, electricity, and transportation. >> does it look like -- do you imagine that is kind of like a steep decline in fossil fuels? does it level off? or is the transition gradual and steady and then spikes? >> so if we want to keep global warming to below 1.5 degrees, which i think is effectively impossible, it would mean getting all the way to zero somewhere around 2040. we only have about 5 to 8 years of carbon emissions before we completely exhaust that. budget ever hoping to limit warming to 2.7 degrees, we have until 2050, and under two degrees, we have to maybe 2070 or 20 80s. those are slightly more manageable timelines. but none of the projections from any of the agencies suggest that we are going to see a rapid decline resembling any of those curves. what they project as we are likely to see a peak in the next few years, followed by a long plateau. and that's why what's really necessary is not just we build out renewables, is that we figure out a way to drawdown our fossil capacity. and there's very little in this agreement, or frankly, any initiative anywhere in the world that i think brings us close to that goal. >> so what is the point of these sort of, is it conference of parties, the cop symposium, as it were? i mean, there have been 28 of them, and there's another one scheduled in two years. let me paint and even more dystopian picture, if donald trump is reelected, i mean, what are the implications for a multinational agreement if we have someone like trump in the oval office? and furthermore, what is the utility of having these kind of climate symposia if the united states and other western countries are not leading the charge in the way that the need to? >> i think, to take the second question first, i think basically it's a test of how much rhetoric matters and leadership matters. these are not binding agreements. they are not enforceable in any way. but they do show a consensus among the world's leadership about where the future is heading. and they have helped in that way in the past. so in the paris agreement in 2015, that was where we established the 1.5-degree goal. and in the years since, we've talked about our promise against that benchmark, every time. and we've really internalized the fact that that was important to try to get it close as we could to 1.5. and we've learned a lot about how different the world looks, how much worse at two degrees, 2.5 degrees, and three. all of that is because the rhetorical leadership that have not. paris not because paris bound us to pursue that goal, it's because it taught us a different way of thinking about the future and what we need to do to get there. so it is possible for conferences like these to shape the future that way. but i think we are in a slightly different place with the global transition that we were back then, which is to say, as i mentioned a minute ago, almost everyone you asked knows that we're heading towards a fossil free future. it's just a question of how quickly we will get there. and i don't think that rhetoric can really do all that much. there we need more innovation on that front, more progress on finance, particulate flee for the global south. they have a really hard time building the projects now. and we need to move much faster in the rich world, even though in the ritual, we are decarbonizing somewhat. as for what donald trump means, i think that there is some hope in the fact that the markets are really moving this themselves. and five or ten years ago, we talked about global warming as a moral burden that we would have to undertake. but is going to be costly, as well be difficult, and therefore our diplomacy. now, everyone is moving towards a green transition, not fast enough. but i think on election -- as tragic and awful as that would be would mean worse things for united states then for the global -- >> david wallace-wells, always a -- on an important topic. that is our show for

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