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be a dictator. i said, no, no, no, except on day one. >> tonight, donald trump stand back and stand by for dictatorship moment. >> the lesson of donald trump out the last several years has taught us, we have to take them seriously and take him real. and a requiem for the last young gun -- >> eye and they want to ask the question, i never quit. >> a stunning resignation of the only speaker ever fired from the job. and my interview with the great rob reiner, the life and legacy at the incomparable -- >> i would say he mattered, but only if i can help people understand that is true of all of us. when all in starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. as we begin the official start of the 2024 election season, there is hardly, a growing awareness across the political spectrum that donald trump is running on an explicit pledge to be a dictator, some form of presidential dictator. if he wins back the white house, then he plans to smash american contribution will -- that he will finish the job that he began on january six. there is a problem with campaigning on the platform. preserving constitutional government is not top priority impulse, people do seem to be turned off by candidates run around sayg that they'll be a fascist dictator. anyone in public politics to bring themselves together understands that this is probably the last message you want to try to win an election, let alone stay one. -- showing that the most strenuously pro coup, pro big lie candidates loose in competitive races, time and time again. in fact, it was all of those losses in the 2022 midterms, momentarily startled some republicans into thinking that, it would be a mistake to nominate donald trump again. last there is days are gone. now, he is the party's likely nomination, the front runner. he is far and away in first place, polling higher than all of his challenges combined in iowa. last night, donald trump in iowa, six weeks ahead of the first republican caucus, for a fox news town hall. i should note, this was pre-recorded, presumably, to make sure that any defamatory statements could be edited out. it's been a problem and the pass for the guy. he was hosted by the one and only sean hannity, whose key, central skill as a broadcaster is something that we like to call, hannah teasing. it's a classic sean hannity move, practiced for decades, to offer a softball staged interview to or a republican, trying to clean up out there saying something offensive. so, sean hannity, understands that running a platform of dictatorship is probably not the most popular way to do it, tried to hannah ties donald trump. it did not work out as he planned. >> i want to go back to this one issue. the media has been focusing on this and attacking you, under no circumstances, you are promising america tonight, he would never abuse power, as retribution against anybody? >> except for day one. look, he's going crazy. >> except for day one. >> meaning? >> i want to close the border and drill, drill, joe. >> that's not retribution. >> i am going to be -- i love this guy. he says, you're not going to be a dictator, are you? i say, no, no, no, other than day one. we close the border, and we are drilling, drilling, drilling. after that, i am not a dictator. >> sounds to me, that you're going back to the policies that when you are a president. >> a few things jump out at me in that clip. first, know how sean hannity immediately takes them to a commercial break, because he knows it did not go. also, donald trump did not misspeak, he was offered up an opportunity on is silver platter in front of him, crafted for his taste in dilatation, to the night that he has an interest in being an authoritarian. he could've said, no, you're right sean. he knew exactly what he was doing when he refused to do so. he wants his followers to know, like he wants to end american democracy. like them, he is excited by the prospect of being part of a violent and authoritarian movement, and he wants their support, as he pursues that plan, just as he counted on the support in the pass, most notably on january six. of course, trump has been explicit about autocratic admiration and intentions all along. in 2016, he could have easily said yes, of course, i won't accept the election results. but he did not, because he had no intention of doing so. >> i want to ask you here on the stage tonight, do you make the same commitment that you are absolutely except at the results of this election. >> i will look at it at the time. i am not looking at anything now. i will look at it at the time. >> that was big news, if i remember, really big news. again, in 2020, trump had an opportunity to condemn violent far-right groups, like the proper. since that, he directed them to, infamously, stand by. >> are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in the city 's? >> give me a name -- who? >> the proud boys? >> proud boys, stand back and stand by. >> the proud boys heard that message. he did not misspeak. stand back and stand by, he could have said, i condemned them. he could have said, i want nothing to do with them. no, he affirmatively said stand back and stand by. one of their own members testified to the january 6th meeting, the group's numbers tripled after donald trump's comments. the ex president deliberately chosen his words. of course, as we saw in those debates, like the town hall last night, the crowd loves that stuff. that is the most important takeaway here. the maga die hards that show up to that kind of event, tuesday night in iowa, show up to rallies, who showed up on january six, they want a dictatorship from day one. and make no mistake, that is exactly what donald trump is promising no. david plouffe served as campaign manager for barack obama's 2000 a campaign, a senior advisor to barack obama and was a staffer at the atlantic, where he published a piece about the perils of a second trump turn. they both join me now. david, i do think that there is a political opportunity opening here that i think is pretty key that hannity senses in that moment and that trump may be as some sense to, because he's trying to walk a line between saying, he thinks populate things, like i woodrow at the border. but it seems to me, that the awareness of his authoritarian intentions, communicating to voters, because all other things being said about them, it's not a winning message, i don't think. what do you think? >> sadly, it's a message for 40% at the country. but, it's not going to get you the presidency so yeah what is interesting is an issue that i think even trump certainly is allies identify, things like abortion and the rise of autocracy and dictatorship, trump is not claiming he's a moderate abortion, which is political insanity, given that he is the number one reason that roe v. wade was overturned. and then you see sean hannity tried to help him out, something donald trump could not handle a sit off ball. could not answer a leading question about not being a dictator. there's no question that, this will be a close election, and we don't know what will happen with the economy. you know, that is going to be something that biden will try to do better. but i think on these two issues, on democracy, those of us on the pro democracy side, i think at the do a good job of explaining what that means. it's not just a short coming. people have a lot of faith and institutions, so it means we don't want to have laws anymore, it means if you say something negative, you could be jailed. it means that, basically, one family will be don, donald trump, and then don jr. and then ivanka and then barren. you have to make it real for people, so that they understand. there's no question about that, if you think about people and how to deliver not just joe biden's election. the democratic victory in 2018 and 2022, there absolute going to be voters, if they think there is a hint that donald trump could become a dictator, will oppose him. more to be seen there, but here is the thing. everything that we have seen, incoming members of his potential administration are out there saying, listen, we will investigate our opponents, go after the press. donald trump himself is saying, that he'll get rid of the constitution. we should not believe his statement on sean hannity. we should believe everything else. >> yeah, and there is a whole feeling of testy dweebs, who like to go on whatever fought costs they find to pray about the fascist fuse there that they will ignore very. again, you have to take it seriously, but it's also like, these are pathetic individuals. but it's also, adam, it relates to the political weakness here, which i think the advantage has to be pressed on, which is that broadly, be freaks and geeks problem, people around the republican party, particular, the upper echelons, the stephen miller, the kash patel's, the people that want to go on the city bannon podcast and spin out there fascist fantasies. we saw windows people actually ran for office in 2022, blake masters in arizona comes to mind, the electorate, some portion, some crucial think, for the battle for the center of t>> yeah, most peoplet off when someone starts talking like skeletal. i think you look at donald trump, there is a kind of bra humor to it. he wants to say something that sounds menacing enough to be embraced by the people in the united states, who would prefer not to have a democracy but have some sort of conservative autocracy. but he also want to be able to juggle about it, he wants people to freak out and defend them in an almost ironic way. a lot of his low level admirers don't talk like the. they talk like, low level technicians on the death star. i think that is off putting to most normal people. the problem is, that trump has, he has an understanding that. he understands the problem, as he put. it he tries to make everything sound like a joke, when he is completely. serious >> that is a very astute observation. there's also the question too about, what does it look like to engage on this? president biden has said, he has talked about this. he talked about in the 2022 midterms. to give it in the big speech, talked about it as a team during the midterms, that seemed to bear fruit. he reset, were enough for trump, he might not be running again. i wonder, like, as a technical matter, as a sort of campaign messaging expert, how you do make that tangible for voters. what is the message here about what this threat that can seem abstract is? >> a couple of things, chris, one, -- this presidential election will be decided in seven states, basically, by two sets of voters. the 45 swing voters in the states and a whole lot of democrats, who may not turn out. this is true in every election. i think this message about trump bringing autocracy to america, works with both of them. so, it's not many americans, actually. totally punishable from a tactical standpoint, and then the question is, i think passengers, i think you need a lot of republicans out there, you need a lot of form of law enforcement out there, need average people saying, this is what i am worried about. one thing i am concerned about is that i think sometimes, we talk about democracy, autocracy, a lot of people think about it through the stolen election and the coup and insurrection. as important as that is, trump will actually acted. that will be the least of their problems. it is going to be what happened to real people when we have no institutions with the law in this country. we need people to make that clear. i do think that i very much agree that there is a sense as well, trump jokes about this stuff, his voters say he can't be serious. it's not like he had the hall of fame kitchen cabinets to execute his wishes. but we know this about the guy. he does not like criticism, does not like to lose, and so, i think, they are going to take the cdc and try to basically turn this into -- we just had to look at who he idolizes around the world. putin, president xi, the north korean leader, orban, that is what we are going to get. the good thing is your, talking about, at most, to the 3 million americans, don't need to be convinced that the way to make sure that democracy is not to vote for donald trump and a third party. numerically, it's accomplish the task. >> you've got a piece about in the atlantic special issue on the second term, you're right about the judiciary specifically and just what it would mean. i think this is an important point to make, particularly to those who may be wavering about their enthusiasm for democratic ticket for whether they want to vote. just like the degree to which, another set of thos stack the ben long term sense for the pro to the extent that they could agwhat we have s judiciary is a histo analysis that h defined right-wing, cultural and put ego at your most intimate communications. they want to figure out where you're going and why. they want to foment a system of surveillance and control to make sure that women can't decide whether or not they want to have a child. that is a concrete example of what we are talking about, when seized their will, the --agai momentthat is the real david plouffe and adam serwer, thank you both coming up, after another mas shooting on an american colleg campus in the last few hours brand-new information about th victims and the shooter at the university of nevada las vegas that is next, don't go anywhere one small smoothie is $14.63, please. $14 girl, what is you doing? but making smoothies is such a hassle. not with blendjet. what's going on? shhhh. hold that thought. just pour in some milk, throw in some frozen fruit, and in 20 seconds you've got yourself a nutritiou and delicious smoothie. mmm! tastes just like the ones they sell here. and for a whole lot less. i'm ruined. awww. kick your expensive smoothie bar habit to the curb. order yours now at blendjet.com. >> our hearts go out to the entire unlv community. no student should have to fear pursuing their dreams. >> that was moments ago, we were following breaking news in las vegas. after a gunman opened fire at the university of nevada at las vegas earlier today. three people were killed, another person shot, and another is in stable condition in the hospital. the gunman was killed at the scene. police say they have identified him. they are not really seen that information until the next of kin are notified. msnbc correspondent emily martinez covered the story and joins us live at the latest. emily, what do we know about what happened there today? >> as you mentioned, the news conference wrapping a few minutes ago. the sheriff describing the shooting as a heinous, unforgivable crime, and we're learning that the shooting first broke out on the fourth floor of one of the business school buildings, and it continued on multiple levels. what police are underscoring tonight, there is no more ongoing threat to the community in las vegas, as you mentioned, three people were tragically killed, a fourth person is in stable condition. others today, we knew that individual was considered in good condition. the situation has been upgraded. several officers have sustained minor injuries, as well. still many questions. we don't know if the victims were students, staff or other people. we don't know the it is right at deaf east for the victims. one of the things that police underscore tonight is that the death toll could actually have been far worse, pointing out that there have been large gatherings in the area. this is a heavily trafficked portion at this large campus, unlv. had detectives not engage the suspect as quickly as they did, the suspect's truck outside the building where the shooting had played out. they say that they know the identity of the suspect, but they are not releasing the name at this time until next of kin is notified, but sources tell us that the shooting suspect is a man in his 60s. to give you a sense, chris, of the chaos and confusion to put out earlier today, at one point, campus police had notified and told students and staff on the campus to, quote, run, hide and fight. students described barricading themselves in classrooms, dropping, staying away from the window says it all played out. then in nearby areas, we saw a ground stop at a major airport. we saw a major highway closed temporarily as well. now, the focus will shift to the, why what led to what was behind this tragic shooting. president biden reacting late today, saying, quote, unlv is the latest college campus to be terrorized by a horrific act of gun violence, and las vegas is a city that is all too familiar with a mass shootings. remember just a few years ago, in 2017, the worst mass shooting in u.s. history played out just three miles from this campus on the las vegas strip, chris? >> emily arcana, thank you so much for that report, i appreciate it. here is a professor of politics and journalism at morgan state university and msnbc political contributor. he joins me now, jason, you are at oregon state, which had a shooting, i believe, earlier this year in the spring. >> about six or seven weeks ago. >> six or seven weeks ago. that's right. you have a sense of what is like day two, day three, week four, week five, the reverberations of something. >> they are massive, and i am not talking about the increased security that you have for a while. the psychological effect on the students is immense. most of them are still processing being out at the house for the first time. what does it mean to be safe in my dorm? what does it mean to be safe when i walk around campus will be shot? i had to mention that i spent a lot at this afternoon looking tiktoks of students here. there's a kid i saw named jordan. i think i have his name properly. in his tiktok, he said, i left chicago violence to go to unlv, thinking that be safe. imagine having shootings like that. here that are the experiences that people have. on my campus, nobody actually died, but students are afraid to go to class. they're concerned, i keep telling people that these are pandemic babies. for them, being outside is rough after being locked down for two years. there needs to be immense efforts on the campus for the psychological and emotional impact of the students, and then the faculty, because the adults are processing this. i am processing it on my own campus in a different way. >> one of the things through, i have been to the unlv campus, a big, open public space environment. oregon state is in baltimore and as been embedded in the framework of the city. one of the best things about the campuses that they are big open public access places, to the extent, that it began to garrison the, you take away precisely the thing that makes them, such an amazing space to be in, and people don't want to see that happen either, but, of course, these calculations the mass shooting error is one that all institutions have to make. >> one of the issues that students talk about all the time on any campus in america, is the militarization of the police. but here is the thing, if you have a mass shooter, the police do have to go to buy dorm. the police at the make sure that nobody is being held hostage. there is no amount of security -- you can put a dome around a campus. >> or any other part of american life, this is a thing we have learned when we have seen shootings in elementary schools, the sort of effort to burden the targets of schools, but fundamentally, they will be in a democratic society, open spaces, in which people congregate. >> you have to have to but basis for people to return to normalcy. this is one thing i want, chris, for everybody to understand, as they are having their kids, checking on their students, thinking about their own expenses on campus, the reason behind the violence is not going to provide much security or peace. we'll find out why this person did, it does not change how people feel. it does not get first into don't want to take finals are now, at the number -- >> this point about motive such an important point. you would get the sense that, you will open up the box, and inside, there will be some explanation and how to cover that mishitting in las vegas, the largest in american history, there was nothing inside the box, as far as we can tell. it was mass murder and inconceivable skill, for reasons unknown, and even if there were reasons, what does it do? it does not provide for the people that i've been through this, who are processing the trauma, any kind of comfort? >> no peace for them. i also want to point out this, death is one particular thing that people fear, but injury is true as well. somebody got shot in the arm, you're still traumatized. that maybe somebody that needs to go to class. we have to recognize that shot just the death from violence, about a sense of safety. >> all right, jason johnson, thank you for joining us, i appreciate it. still ahead, and just a few months, kevin mccarthy as fallen from speaker to announcing his resignation from congress. where did it all go wrong? what does it mean for the republican party, next. online auctions since 2009. this playstation 5 sold for only 50 cents. this ipad pro sold for less than $34. and this nintendo switch, sold for less than $20. i got this kitchenaid stand mixer for only $56. i got this bbq smoker for 26 bucks. and shipping is always free. go to dealdash.com right now and see how much you can save. what is cirkul? cirkul is the fuel you need to take flight. cirkul is the energy that gets you to the next level. cirkul is what you hope for when life tosses lemons your way. cirkul. it's your water, your way. >> you know that moment where you watch a horror movie, and a person goes down to the basement or out into the woods, and you instinctively yelled, don't go down there. of course, they always go down there. just like republicans always do in the era of donald trump, one after another, they walk into his arms, and are watching the warning, you probably don't want to do that, it will end up well. they do, and then their careers and in humiliating fashion. the latest example, the third shortest tenured speaker in american history, kevin mccarthy. he outlasted only a man who had a couple for one day, and a man who died of tuberculosis, so he has that going for him. mccarthy, like many before him, and like every other republican, had this opportunity to come after trump after january six, but with visions of this because ship in his head, he hopped onto a plane after the inspector shireen to the former president's home, and trump was at its lowest, too big for an endorsement from the disgraced former president. but even that pilgrimage did not buy him much. >> no persons has received a majority hole number of votes passed by surname, a speaker has not been elected. a speaker as not been elected, has not been elected, has not been elected. a speaker has not been elected. kevin mccarthy of the state of california, having received a majority of the votes cast, is duly elected speaker at the house of representatives. >> yay, kevin, my boy. the alpha changes there or not, because you're doing a kind of starting, but instead -- just nine months after the excruciating week, mccarthy was kicked out of the same job by a bunch of trump devoted maga loyalists, while donald trump did not do a thing to help him. since then, he's been hanging around with the limits of lame, clearly seated with rage, so much so, he was accused of shoving another congressman in front of a reporter, while denying reports that he was leaving. >> i am not resigning. i got a lot more work to do. >> are you going to resign? >> no, i'm not resigning. >> i'm staying, so don't worry, i got a lot more work. >> are you running for reelection? >> yes. >> yes, you will run -- >> yes, i run for -- in order to keep the majority. i got here and we're going to expand it further. >> well, all that, only announced today that, not only is he retiring, he's actually resigning. he's out of here, don, effective at the end of the month, leaving the successor with a three-vote majority in the new year, before two huge spending bill deficits. as for mccarthy, he's heading to the political graveyard, along the likes of jeff chauvin 's, paul ryan, brooks, meadows and many more. claire mccaskill served two terms antisemitic democratic senate of missouri. she is a msnbc political analyst, and she joins me now. what do you think? >> did you notice when you asked, are you going to run again? he said, yeah. he was like, -- >> you can't make news on that. >> i can say no. i think, republicans need to realize that they got a problem. look at the history of speakers that the republican party has produced, and look what has happened, going back to gingrich. there has been scandal. ryan is the only one that internally served until democrats took over. boehner got to start in october. after them, an election, previous november, meanwhile, pelosi, and by the way, democrats are easier to get together, no, they're not. >> there are harder. >> of course. >> they're harder, there are structural factors that make them a more unyielding coalition. >> correct, but the differences, they really do want to govern and get things done. in moments where it matters, they stay together. pelosi was able to keep them together over some rough waters, and hakeem jeffries has done a great job this year, keeping the democrats together. meanwhile, what's the shelf life of mike johnson? >> yeah -- >> this is not going to go. it's not going to go, because either, he'll bring the republican party down in flames next november, or they are going to move him out. too >> you mentioned paul ryan, another one who basically was forced into the job of speaker by trump, went on humiliating planks, again, he tried to appeal obamacare, the network. these are the young guns that contend that there are the former future of the republican party. take a look. >> there is a better way, and the new team is ready to bring america back. eric kanter, kevin mccarthy, paul ryan joined by common stance conservative candidates from across the country, together, they are ready to make history. together, they are the young guns. >> now, 13 years is a long time in politics, a lot has happened, but all gone. that entire universe of what was going to be a republican leadership, republican party, patrick mchenry, who served as lieutenant of kevin mccarthy, kevin mccarthy, who serve the speaker, he's also leaving. you can also understand why people would not want to stick around and that majority. >> listen, it's not a pleasant place. i talk to my friends that are still in office in washington, especially on the senate side. it's not a pleasant place to be right now. it's really hard, so if you believe in things, if you have and ideology other than the personality cult of trump, it's hard to stick around, because, clearly, the republican party, does not stand for anything right now other than donald trump. that's got to be hard. by the way, those young guns, not only is mccarthy out in record time, not only is paul ryan gone making the big bucks on the boardroom of rupert murdoch, but kanter got beat. he got beat, period. >> when he was beat, he was beat by a guy named david brad and a primary that sort of took everybody by surprise, in a kind of, sort of canary in the coal mine about trump. really, it was about, your own voters hate you. the base of the republican party hates what they see as the gop establishment. there seems to be a logistical issue when you speak about -- this is marcia taylor greene doing her own vote counting. in 2024, we'll have a one seat majority in the house of representatives, congratulations, freedom caucus for a 105 rep who is but one after another. i can assure you, the republican voters did not get the majority, hopefully nobody dies. >> and, by the way, kevin mccarthy elevated her. this is not a well-woman. this is not someone, in terms of our values, things that most americans believe in, she is definitely on the mainstream, way out on the mainstream, and she is like a serious spokesperson for the republican party. >> she is like running the republican house. >> she is talking about the vice president. her whole book is in homage to how she should be vice president under donald trump. mccarthy empowered her. mccarthy lifted her up, and the fact that she is staying loyal to him, some supporters may see as admirable, but is scary to me that she gets the amount of attention that she gets. >> the whole thing, every time you go through it, like a horror movie in the beginning, it's such a cliché, the devils bargain. the devils bargain is called a devils parking for a reason. it is a troop under the western buttery cannon, which you are offered a thing, and then you'll pay back recently and. we watched them do it over and over again. eventually, the devil comes calling as, he has for kevin harvey. i mccaskill, thank you so much. >> you bet. >> still to come, after the passing of tv legend norman lear, rob reiner joins me on why lear's has significance today. i got this $1,000 camera for only $41 on dealdash. dealdash.com, online auctions since 2009. this playstation 5 sold for only 50 cents. this ipad pro sold for less than $34. and this nintendo switch, sold for less than $20. i got this kitchenaid stand mixer for only $56. i got this bbq smoker for 26 bucks. and shipping is always free. go to dealdash.com right now and see how much you can save. 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[applause] and probably on day two, we we'll get rid of this ridiculous electric car mandate, we have to go out and buy a car and it doesn't go far. this little problem. it's very expensive and it doesn't go far. >> in many ways, donald trump from queens is a man of a bygone era. he's built an entire political persona on having the exact same worldview and level of knowledge as archie bunker from all in the family. on this day, remember the legendary creator of that show, the man who sat across the living room from archie bunker, the one and only rob reiner will join me next. or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. it■s beginning to look alot like savings! blendjets holiday sale is on now! give the gift of convenience the blendjet 2 portable blender is perfect for everyone on your list. even that picky relative who hates everything. and dont forget the accessories! theyre all on sale! dont wait! our most popular colors and patterns will sell out! go to blendjet.com and take advantage of our holiday sale now. legendary television producer norman lear died at the age of 101. lear is responsible for some of the most indelible tv shows of the 20th century, the jefferson's, good times, mauve, sanford and sons. he may best be remembered for the first show he delivers the deliver, are all in the family 's, a calm belt around rj comfort, as the bigoted father who constantly butz had with his daughters left-wing husband play by rob reiner. >> where you from? >> i'm from chicago. >> i mean what's your nationality? >> i'm an american. >> i mean, where are your people from? >> they're from poland. [laughter] >> that would make you polish then. >> yeah. [laughter] >> anything interesting in the paper? >> yeah 200 arrested at vietnam peace demonstration. 200, they should've thrown a bunch of them in the can. look at that picture there. here they are, throwing all kinds of junk at officers of the law. jumping on the american flag. >> now archie bunker is supposed to be lovable but to many americans, his open racism and misogyny was something to be celebrated maybe even emulated. which may explain as normal or wrote, nearly 50 years after all in the family set, america elected somebody like archie bunker as the 45th president. >> minor calling lear's second father and financing is this is spinal pipe. it's such a great honor to have you rob and first, just condolences of a man i know was an enormous influence on your life. >> like you said, he was a second father to me. i was very lucky to have two men in my life that were great role models. norman showed me how you could use your celebrity, use your fame to advance issues that you care to. i learned from him when he started people for the american way that you could accomplish a lot by using your platform and so i miss him. i love him and i have known him since i was a little kid. i'm glad to be able to come on this show to talk about him because you know, this is a man -- he flew 57 bombing missions over not see germany in the second world war. he fought his entire life for democracy and against fascism and we have so many conversations. even recently, in the last couple of months that he couldn't recognize the country that he fought for so hard and we now see ourselves on the verge of maybe slipping into fascism. and it's just you can't wrap your head around what has happened to this country and how a man like norman who fought so hard could see this happening. and you know, he mentioned in the op-ed that we've got a man like archie bunker in the white house. but the truth of the matter is, archie bunker, he was a racist, he was a bigot, he was very conservative but he was human. he loved his wife, he loved his daughter, even loved his son-in-law who he fought with. you know mercilessly. donald trump is not, he doesn't have any feelings, he's not human, he's a psychopath. and he has the makings and you guys have been talking about for days now, this man and he says it he is a fascist. he wants to rule as an autocrat as a dictator. and we have a big choice. i love that i can come on your show and talk about it because to speak for norment that we have a choice. we can either choice fascism or democracy and that is it and it's that simple. we can argue about issues once we have saved the democracy. >> let me read from something he wrote about this about authoritarianism. he says as a young man, a dropped out of college when the japanese attacked pearl harbor. i flew more than 50 missions and be 17 bomber to defeat fascism. i'm a flag waver believer chief justice in american, when understandably so many people call them patrons can undermine support efforts to undermine our democracy and our constitution, is alarming. and one of things to find some remarkable and admirable about his career, is here someone who's a stalwart liberal his whole life, so i've spoken. who managed to pull off this very difficult thing. who witnessed politics and navigate the studio system and the bosses and to make great, entertaining, funny television, all of which which embodied his worldview. which is you know probably better than anyone, threading those needles is just astoundingly difficult. and for him to do that time and time again over the decades he did is just a stupendous achievement. >> it is and what you say is exactly true. it is incredibly difficult to be able to deal with real characters with real issues that are facing all of us. to present both sides. one of his favorite plays of all-time's major barber by george bernard shaw and if he didn't have that shot was a liberal when you saw that play, he would say he presents both sides. the pro or, anti war case equally. and that's what he wanted to do with all in the family. you wanted to give people a chance to see both sides, to have a discussion and then talk about it. and we were a nation of 200 million people at the time and if you wanted to watch the show, you had to watch it when it was on. there was no tv, dvr, tebow or anything, you had to watch it. so that means 40 to 45 million people every week had a shared experience. and we talked about it. we are so fractured and we don't really get to talk to each other. we have one side, i say i disagree with liz cheney but i'm on the side of liz cheney when we decide we want to save democracy. let's talk, let's argue about the issues once we save democracy, but right now you don't have a republican and democrat, you've got democrats and then you've got, it's like i said, if you want have an argument about an issue, you have to both agree that two plus two is four. once you agreed to that then you can discuss. we have one party that says two plus two is four in the other part of it that says two-plus-two is thursday or something. i don't know what it is! and that's the way it's working, we get norman will be working each to get a laugh out of it. it's the toughest thing in the world to do what he. did >> an incredible, incredible career, and of course every account of ever heard of him, just a truly decent dude. rob reiner, thank you so much for sharing a little bit of your memories of a great man that we lost. thank you. >> thanks chris. >> that is all in on this wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now good evening. alex >>ut

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