them later tonight. we begin right now with the news in the new book by former congresswoman liz cheney. as you've just heard, she is out on book tour. but she is saying some pretty newsworthy and important things. a little context upfront. you know liz cheney, but that's because she's a politician who emerge from the hard right flank of the was bush cheney era. she rose to the republican party leadership in the house where she added some gravitas. she was the highest ranking woman at one point in the gop. today, when you think about her, former speaker mccarthy lost his post because of maga insurgents. cheney lost her entire job and political career, as far as congress is concerned, all because she's stood up against trump's coup. when it occurred in the days after, she was clear on the floor of the house and in the impeachment process that we cannot sit by and allow coups and attacks on democracy in this country. that was the baseline. that was it. that proved to be too much in a clash between the loser of the 20 race and the maga favor in republican districts. following that fever, many party elites turned on cheney as she went to the january six committee which investigated that insurrection. she is now making headlines like this with a new book. she is speaking out in this interview, i should mention she will join rachel here on msnbc in a few hours tonight. and she will join nicolle tomorrow. and here was cheney this morning with trump's threat to her former colleagues in congress. >> people who say, well, if he is elected, it's not that dangerous because we have all of these checks and balances. we don't fully understand the extent to which the republicans in congress today have been co-opted. one of the things that we see happening today is a sort of a sleepwalking into dictatorship in the united states. >> dictatorship in the united states. >>that is a strong warning. too many, that word, that concept, that idea evokes something that is viewed as external to the u.s., of leaders somewhere else, or in some other time, some other era. that habit of thinking is wrong. it is why their entire books about how it can, quote, happen here, to push americans to understand the threat and the way both democracies and dictatorships operate. it's why historians are now comparing what donald trump is saying in public on the campaign trail to dictators like mussolini, when he dehumanizes our fellow citizens in this country as, quote, vermin who must be rooted out. and cheney who staked her career on this who is saying it is now here. she is carefully and precisely warning how she views donald trump as a would-be dictator like mussolini or mao, that if he does win next year, based on everything she's learned. and remember, the high level of the republican party that she's reached, she is now certain based on the evidence he would try to stay in power forever. >> do you believe that if donald trump were elected next here, that he will try to stay in office beyond a second term? that he would never leave office? >> there's no question -- >> do you think he will try to stay in power forever? >> absolutely. i mean, he's already done it once. he's already attempted to seize power. and he was stopped, thankfully, and for the good of the nation, for the republic. but he said he will do it again. he's expressed no remorse for what he did. >> everything you heard her say there is a public fact. it's not contested in the actual reality of people who follow facts and evidence. and so, it matters that we are witnessing here a failed u.s. coup leader run for reelection without remorse, without taking a knee of it back, let alone yet facing real accountability. now, obviously, historical comparisons can be debated. but trump's embrace of dictators is well-known from russia to china, a state which does not use democracy to organize itself. trump actually backed the chinese government's question of dissent. a new piece in the times unearthed his comments from 1990 how than author terry and chinese government killed demonstrators in tiananmen square, hundreds of innocent students. trump said that back then, the killings, which he was aware of, he said when the students were killed in the square, the government was vicious, horrible, but they put it down with strength. and he then said something that he has repeated many times, our country right now is perceived as weak, in contrast to what he called strength. and these new warnings about trump or not confined to the political figures who may clash with him. you could bring this up, you know, on christmas or holiday gatherings and have a republican member of the family say well, cheney and him are opponents now, and they did become opponents, but only because she opposed the coup. but you can look at the independent reporting which is tracing the signs of a second trump term would be more radical with authoritarian tactics, the times has a report on that, noting the forces which contained his autocratic tendencies would be weaker. and that america is putting it mildly. whether one likes donald trump's policies and politics, or think his policies or what he did are worth the downsides, there was a whole right wing movement to overturn roe v. wade, they want that bargain, and they got the policy part. that is subjective. but it is not up for debate. it is not subjective that donald trump, has as a fact, has opposed democracy and acted to overthrow it, foment an insurrection, stage a coup. some of these facts occurred in the very open public. some were more hidden and exposed overtime by independent accounts, by the probe that cheney and others led. some of those plots, as we have shown you and these arrows, now indicted and convicted. we have track this for years now, this coup conspiracy. this is all documented, whether or not donald trump is convicted of coup related crimes in march is a legal question. but the coup attempts, which other people have already been convicted of are already facts. the second trump term would be a life term in his mind. and we have the documented efforts. we have the facts and the public perception that matter here. so cheney stance may matter for the real world fact that people may listen to her more than they listen to some other sources. and we are seeing signs that these why the warnings, republican primary is next month. and here's a new big special from the atlantic, which features many people speaking out, including another bush cheney administrator veteran, arguing that trump actually had kind of a competence problem in his first term, where his own ignorance of the system mitigated to what he calls, corruption and brutality. and the second term, trump will arrive with a better understanding of the system vulnerabilities, and more willing enablers in tow. now, another bush cheney official has also concluded that when you take it all together, trump has basically dissolved the actual republican party. >> i don't think there is a republican party. there is a cult around donald trump. they did not adopt the platform in 2020, which meant they did not set out what they stood for. it was whatever donald trump tells us, we stand for today. that's what we will stand for. it's not a party as we have known it. >> not a party but a cult. colts work on obedience, not through thought or debate. modern authoritarian regimes, also they work of propaganda and conspiracy theories because the truth itself, as an external reality you don't control, it's not how they work. they see truth and the belief in what is real or what is happening as o more tool of power to control things. one more conservative leaning expert bert kagan sounding the alarm that t american trump dictorship now looks increasingly inevitable. and this cult, he sees empire, specifically, quote, like caesar, trump wields a cloud that transcends the laws and institutions of government, with unswerving personal loyalty of his army of followers. and democracy and human rights are a long way from empires that rule presents or slaves. and while there are now some communities online about how much people ink about the romanpirehese days, it is dead serious the notion of an actual trump led one of the empire is the end democracy. which sounds like a bad thing, unless by the way, you are part of this half trolnghave serious right-wing online community. some now push what they literally call red caesar-ism as a kind of quote, envisioning trump as a new cesar to deal with the collapse of the united states. now, and that conspiracy theory, collapse is just another doomsday world which assumes the end of democracy that they actually want to enact, just as they lead some of them to storm the capitol, just some of them are now in prison for that. collapse is a passive word, overthrowing the government is an active one. and that is a day, of course, some of them have convicted. now, one place that trump did fail in office was trying to get generals of the military to join s illegal plans. but is trying to build more support for that right now as well, discussing what sounds like a legal efforts to hijack existing federal law as a way to justify using the military to crush domestic unrest. trump also has openly call for the murder or assassination or of one of the generals he opposes. he wants to put more loyalists in government to enact the plans, including prosecuting opponents. all of this matters and all of this is a part of what we are headed for next year. if you feel exhausted or more ready for the holidays, or that you'd rather read something else, or think about something else, i get that. but they are counting on that and a lot more in order to get what they want. and believe me, vigilance, engagement, civic participation is not only a duty of being a democracy, but also really if you want to look at this small price to pay for avoiding what might come. where do we go from here? these are ancient problems for any society that seeks to be governed by something more than corrupt and oppressive mob rule. that singular frank ocean boil this down to human beings and a mob. what is a mob to waking? what is a king to a god? and what is a god to a non-believer who doesn't believe in anything? america is quite literally facing a mob that once a king, with a king who wants to be a kind of god, with a mob that doesn't believe in facts or anything other than getting its way. now, it's dangerous in rome. it's dangerous if you face that kind of non believer in the coliseum. and from what we can tell on the evidence, we have known that deliberately alarmism, it is dangerous right now. and if you don't believe it when you hear it, documented or independent accounts, would you believe it when you hear so many of the republican's former members or allies making this very specific warning about the red alert of red caesar's. their term, their admission. it's a lot but it is worth digging into, and we have two experts who will do just that, when we are back in 60 seconds. n 60 seconds liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. oh. [dog barks] no it's just a bunny! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ kevin, where are you?! kevin?!?!?.... hey, what's going on? i'm right here! i was busy cashbacking for the holidays with chase freedom unlimited. you know i can't believe you lost another kevin. it's a holiday tradition! earn big time with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours. we are back with the atlantic's mark leibovich, author of the book thank you for your servitude: trump's washington. and bill crystal who served, as mentioned before, in the bush white house. he's a writer at large for the bulwark and director of the republican accountability project. bill, we just walk through how all of this is co-hearing with liz cheney and others speaking out. the wider serious threat that can't be underestimated or dismissed is something that only happens over there. your view tonight? >> that is right, ari. it's not only that it doesn't happen over there, it doesn't happen necessarily with huge drama, the fire of 1933, caesar crossing the rubicon and making direct statements. it can happen step-by-step. the washington post slogan that -- is what democracy does in darkness. but democracy also dies in dusk. and if he gets elected, suddenly the defense department is changing some of the systems. there are people in the justice department, the rules and the norms, they all get involved in criminal prosecutions. they are happy to talk to the white house about who is prosecuted and not. but these things can happen incrementally. it is a mistake to think that necessarily, the military will be storming the white house and replacing civilian rule. and that is what is so dangerous here because trump is a very effective demagogue who will use some of the forms of democracy and will go along some of these institutions. there will be some lawyer in the justice department who will say, like john eastman did during the coup, this is all fine. it's not gonna look like a coup necessarily at first, if we have a dramatic view of the coup that it can be just as dangerous. >> mark? >> i mean, i think it's true. one thing we talk about, actually, there's a lot of talk about this in the last few weeks. i think it is starting to pick up which is a good thing. but also, if you think about the very end of the trump administration, sort of, you know, january 6th through january 20th, there was a period where, you know, in the 25 years i have been in washington, and many people i have spoken to have been here longer, that was the scariest time i have ever been in washington. i mean, the insurrection itself was scary enough. but you had military in the streets. no one knew what the president, who was still in the white house, he was capable. he had absolutely no checks and balances at all. and you had people inside the white house, ostensibly his allies on the hill and the white house saying we just have to land the plane. we don't know what he is capable of. it was a window into a trump completely unbound without any checks and balances. it was a very force at that point but if you look at that and you kind of project it into the future and what the next four years could look like, it's a very chilling thought and something that i think people need to consider. >> i appreciate both of you putting it at that level. and, bill, you have worked on this a lot. so much has changed, right? the world changes. technology changes. and yet, the fundamentals don't. we hear about orwellian language, ministry of truth, everything is backwards. donald trump may not be a scholar of literature or history, and yet there he lands on the same kind of demagoguery. and i mentioned frank ocean who was a great singer. and also speaking to something deeper which is going all the way back to the levels of power and oppression, and as you know, marginalized communities are very familiar with how scary a mob can be, how out of control, how fast it can happen. it could be black and brown people in america. it could be muslim americans or people accused of being muslim americans after 9/11. it could be jews in the world war ii context, or the recent context. that is how scary the mob is. so, i turn to that language for your analysis, what we are hearing from trump. i'm gonna play a brief for the purpose of making sure we understand that what he's referring to, voting it's actually him talking about voter intimidation, which is still a crime in this country. take a listen. >> the most important part of what's coming up is to guard the vote. and you should go into detroit, and you should go into philadelphia, and you should go into some of these places, atlanta. and you should go into some of these places, and we gotta watch those folks when they come in. >> atlanta, detroit, places where black americans and democrats do tend to vote. and watch, and get their, and intimidate. this is a man who was able to spark the insurrection in washington by so many people. where does that fit in and how vigilant should everyone be in understanding what is being said and what is being meant? >> trump is always talking with violence and encouraging it. now it's gotten much more serious and more systematic. and leftist very much without democracies crumble. this organized party that serves one man. they start to figure out how to manipulate the levers of government. and then, they also use violence, and mobs, and intimidation from outside of government, sometimes that matches up or matches up with what's happening inside government. but that is very much the case in these types of instances. one shouldn't just dismiss trump's, the violence in trump's rhetoric, the de-humiliation of his opponents, the attacks on week communities. playing on the bigotry against. >> and, mark, the politics of this matters because everyone is waiting for someone else to deal with it on the republican side. you can argue, and i want to be clear on this, there are some democrats who may benefit, and want to scare everyone, and they may not be involved. so as soon as partisanship guns and can work in a lot of different ways. having said that, mcconnell was telling the new york times maybe trump should be disqualified from office. wouldn't that be handy for them? but he really did not go as far as doing it. and so, politics in a vacuum, and very few republicans even when trump is on the ballot, they don't want to get to it. here is for your breakdown, mark, here is desantis. >> the word vermin -- >> i don't use the term. but what i don't do is play the medias game, as being the referee of other people. he is responsible for his words. he's responsible for his conduct. i am responsible for mine. >> mark? >> yeah, i mean, all of this is true. but it is emblematic of someone else will take care of the problem. and there's an echo somewhat infamous quote around the washington post during the transition last time when, you know, trump was saying that he was gonna dispute the election, he was gonna fight. no one was really congratulating the new president elect joe biden because they were sort of waiting to see when trump would fizzle himself out. and someone said, you know, what is the price and humor in him for a certain amount of time. he was like a senior official, or something like that. that's essentially been the republican platform, you know, pretty much since january of 2017, humoring donald trump, waiting for someone else to come along. look, the senate did not do it after january 6th. and it didn't look like anyone has done it, you know, to this point on the trail. and, you know, liz cheney and many others, chris christie on this campaign, have certainly been very strong on this. but ultimately, the critical mass of the party is not in any place or in a position to stop him right now. >> when i think about desantis, i am not responsible for trump's words. for reacting and for explaining and criticizing the front-runner of your own party, when he uses words like that, what does that mean i'm not responsible for his words. is dehumanizing people out there. desantis says he will support him if he loses to him, which he's certainly gonna do. but he's not responsible. it's a really telling moment, just another loss of responsibility. >> again, it wasn't a random thing of hey, i get that you are a candidate. and both of you have been around in the white house, sometimes you choose not to engage in a circus. so, can you believe the candidate might this joke, we're not getting into that -- he says we're gonna wipe out vermin. so what you said about people in florida or some group that desantis feels novel and more protective of, how do you not be able to draw a line? bill, i'm curious, as we know towards, we are a couple of weeks out from the iowa caucus, and republicans will have a vote, we'll see what happens. the media has made many mistakes assuming what's gonna happen -- as everyone covers it, what do you think, bill, is the right proportion of these issues, and also discussing what may have ultimately be a rematch, if it is, how much do you cover policies, and how much to cover these two people who are running to be in charge of the country, and how much of it is making sure that it's not normalized into an average choice? >> i think one way to make sure it's not normalized's took over the race in terms of what does desantis say about trump's authoritarian rhetoric and what he's done in the past. obviously, january six, none of them seem to condemn that, with the exception of kristie. and liz cheney who's not running. but that's the way to bring together the horse race so to speak and what is really at stake. and nikki haley who is emerging as the only alternative to trump, who has a real chance. how much is she willing to say that trump is -- that january 6th was awful. when using the defense department and lay the groundwork for the coup. how much is someone like nikki haley willing to stand up, step up, saying this is not acceptable. liz cheney has said that. trump is unacceptable in 2024. will any of the other republicans say that? >> really important. bill and mark, i want to thank you both. appreciate you being here. liz cheney is making news. she is also gonna be on this channel and thus a couple of hours here. liz cheney on rachel maddow tonight, nine pm eastern. yes, it's a plug. but boy are we interested. that's gonna be some must watch tv with our colleague later tonight. later in the program, why so many republicans are rejecting george santos lies but still defending the big lie, as anissa snl gets one more shot of it. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> but if i'm guilty of anything, it is for loving too much slash fraud. [laughter] meanwhile, jack smith wins another round. the judge bringing out the monopoly card. we will explain why there's no get out of jail free card. and joyce vance is my next guest. ♪ ♪ ♪ my next guest. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ he thinks his flaky, red patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. [ned?] it can help you get clearer skin and reduce itching and flaking. with no routine blood tests required. doctors have been prescribing it for nearly a decade. otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis. don't use otezla if you're allergic to it. serious allergic reactions can happen. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. some people taking otezla had depression, suicidal thoughts, or weight loss. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. [crowd gasp] ♪♪ with clearer skin, movie night is a groovy night. [ting] ♪♪ live in the moment. ask your doctor about otezla. 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an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today. at bombas, we're obsessed with comfort. quality. movement. because your basic things should be your best things. one purchased equals one donated. visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first order. donald trump's defendant in several cases, as he faces two setbacks. it two of them, in new york, he's trying to appeal that right now. d jack smith beating trump's bid to toss the entire coup case over trump's case to be immune for prosecution because it is a roll that while important the judge found being president does not bestow the right of kings to evade criminal accountability. former presidents enjoy no special conditions on the federal criminal liability, let alone some kind of lifelong get out of jail free pass. there is no get out of jail free pass or card, meaning if a defendant like donald trump's convicted, the judge is suggesting, defendant trump will take the same trip known to generations of monopoly game players. >> ♪ ♪ ♪ >> monopoly is very, very good. >> monopoly has been bringing together for almost 50 years. that's how long we have been wheeling and dealing together, playing together, and go into jail together. >> going to jail together. i have been telling you, the judge board game reference does check out. players can win a coveted get out of jail free card, maybe you already knew that. and honestly, in a way, presidents do get a temporary version of that card while in office think about it like this when you land on the white house, the justice states the president is immune from doj prosecution while an office. it's a point prosecutor mueller looked noted in the report. but it's a temporary rule because president overseeing the doj, it's long been understood that former presidents can be charged. that's why former president nixon wanted and accepted his pardon from very likely federal prosecution after resigning in watergate. what is new now is this judge spelling out this precedent for trump's possible conviction and evenceration. this is how the times put it, a decision by judge chutkan was thfit time a federal court ruled former president did not enjo protections of immunityom criminal prosecutn. then again, trump is the only former president who have been charged with any crimes and not just once, but four times in four different jurisdictions. joining us now is a former federal prosecutor, former u.s. attorney joyce vance. welcome, joyce. there's a lot to keep track of, but the times there puts it down in the paper, the record, this is a precedent because no one else has reached this point. what does it tell you that trump is sort of making that kind of negative present president president? >> i think it means that the former president is in a lot of trouble. and, you know, judges, ari, and you know this, they always instructed juries when they go back to deliberate. they don't have to leave their common sense at the door. they don't have to leave their common sense at the door either. and we know enough about the american system of justice to understand that no one is above the law. presidents are not above the law. and if those words are going to have meaning, then judge chutkan's ruling is the only ruling the entirety of our court system can reach when it comes to donald trump, not above the law. reading also from that view, that reading, he maye subject to federal investigation, indictment, prosecution, conviction, and punishment for any criminal acts undertaken while in office. this seems to be the real kind of hard-line that trump may not want to hear and his lawyers hope would somehow be sort of bargained away. in georgia, the time, the calendar may be on their side. this is kind of against the backdrop of the other story, which is liz cheney and others warning about trump running for office and likely trying to do it all over again, not remorseful at all, if anything, take federal power and pardon the people who are currently incarcerated for related acts. so what does it tell you that the judge is so clearly and specifically saying that you are not immune from punishment either? meaning if convicted in this case, he's presumed innocent, but if convicted you can expect a prison sentence? >> and i think he is saying that very plainly. there has been far too much speculation that former president can't go to prison, that it would be tough for the secret service to handle, or there might be some sort of region, reasons to prevent a former president from being in the prison population. but the reality is we all watched january 6th on national television. and we now have a defendant in a criminal case who has not made any remorse for his conduct. in fact, he's doubled down. he is in essence vowing to do more and to do worse in a second term, as we have seen in recent reporting, talking about his 2025 plan. and so, the courts are faced with a stark decision, holding him accountable, or letting him almost certainly try to get away with it a second time. i think it's important that we see judge chutkan telling the line here and standing up for what are our common sense tells us, it's the only possible outcome. it will ultimately be up to a jury to determine whether or not donald trump's guilty. the judiciary's job is to make sure that he gets his day in court, and that jury, standing in really for all of us, really, the jury of trump's that they will have the opportunity to hear the evidence and reach a verdict. >> you mentioned the speculation, discussion around incarceration. i am curious, your views, because you've dealt with this, there are certain dynamics that can make it more complicated. for example, people who are connected to gangs or mafia and how you deal with that inside a prison population. mental health, a whole separate issue, where you deal with individuals who have other problems. they did not need the tests to be put in a different facility. they may have certain challenges, but they are in a traditional maximum security facility. another issue sometimes is people who have internal threats against them. and of course, any fire prison is supposed to take that seriously, retribution, et cetera. but it doesn't mean that they only go to home confinement just because there are extra measures taken. i am curious if you can walk us through that because i think the issue, issues around a potential former official going in like this are real. but i don't think they're made up. but educate us or remind us how you mitigate that because i don't mean it just on donald trump, a very prominent official in illinois and then he served in prison. another person who is presumed innocent, senator menendez, who happens to be a democrat. but if convicted, he would be a former senator, maybe it's more complicated, but i won't believe he would be immune to potential incarceration either. >> i am really glad you asked this question because one of my jobs during the obama administration was to work closely with the general counsel of the bureau of prisons and to work with the director. and the bureau of prisons is a very nimble entity. they deal with a lot of people with special circumstances, whether it's internal risks that require separation orders or other special needs. they have units called shoes, special housing units. they accommodate prisoners -- and there's the super max facility in colorado where prisoners are house. there's a lot of different ways that a former president could be accommodated and just as you pointed out, former governor of illinois was incarcerated in federal prison. you know, the goal of the system is to do justice not to do special favors. and donald trump has been the beneficiary of far too many special favors. it's time for him to see justice. and that may well include incarceration if he doesn't have the good sense to cut a beneficial plea deal. look, i know a lot of people would be against that, ari. but a plea deal that would determine trump's guilt and require him to stand up in open court and acknowledge that he is guilty would be very meaningful. and in that sort of a situation, it might be worth considering home confinement instead of custody. but unless donald trump does that, the full range of punishment has to be on the table for him. >> will interesting to hear your view, again, a lot of the people, you've dealt with prisoners in the bureau, among other things. really factual update there. appreciate that, joyce vance, thank you. >> thanks, ari. >> absolutely. we mentioned george santos getting roasted. we have more on that and what it may relieve about the parties crisis. but first, we turn some important statements by the new york attorney general letitia james. her take on trump in the civil fraud trial. she is also speaking about hate crimes. we're gonna show you that, new comments tonight. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ adding vraylar to an antidepressant... is clinically proven to help relieve overall depression symptoms... ...better than an antidepressant alone. and in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles, or confusion, as these may be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, weight gain, and high cholesterol may occur. movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects. stomach and sleep issues, dizziness, increased appetite, and fatigue are also common. side effects may not appear for several weeks. i 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>> my call to action would be know your rights. >> people have used jones versus the city of l.a. to make judgments against police officers -- >> don't let felon define you -- >> important points there, including the enduring fact that if you care about issues like this, you have to be politically engaged, almost sort of year around, not just episodically. this gathering spends a lot of different people, grassroots activists, legal leaders who we just showed you, of course, the attorney general and someone's from the doj. a cultural figures, too, i gotta tell you, that joe spoken emphasized the importance of bringing together the original people, the ogs, with the younger next generation. >> youth sit there and talk to their own and tell youth, not just ogs and all that, because you look at them, yeah, og was popping in the 80s, in the 90s. it's 2023. and that has been happening, i'm not saying don't get involved and try to change the community. but we need more youth. >> more youths, fat joe it's the last word on that. when i come back, we have a work for these republicans trying to have it both ways online, former congressman santos. essman santos arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. i chose arexvy. rsv? 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>> here's what i feel very strongly about. we should be talking about the next four years, not relitigating the last six years. >> okay. but this is the next four years. trump is running to be the nominee and then try to be president for the next four years. it's a dodge that doesn't even make sense, but it shows you how so many republicans are worried about dealing with all of this. some wanted a break from george santos and his very infamous circus before going into the election next year, and yet they are still selling a message that draws attention to an overwhelming contradiction here because if you sum up the republicans, about half of the party who voted to expel santos on friday and who are standing by trump, well, you can sum it up very simply as small lie, bad. big lie, good. we'll be right back. significant relief across bipolar depression. unlike some medicines that only treat bipolar i, caplyta treats both bipolar i and ii depression. and in clinical trials, movement disorders and weight gain were not common. call your doctor about sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants may increase these risks in young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable muscle movements which may be life threatening or permanent. these aren't all the serious side effects. caplyta can help you let in the lyte. ask your doctor about caplyta. find savings and support at caplyta.com. i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up, i've got symptom relief. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and the majority of people experienced long-lasting remission at one year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ♪ now's the time to ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. meet the jennifers. jen x. jen y. and jen z. each planning their future through the chase mobile app. jen x is planning a summer in portugal with some help from j.p. morgan wealth plan. let's go whiskers. jen y is working with a banker to budget for her birthday. you only turn 30 once. and jen z? 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(soft music) former congresswoman liz cheney speaks with an authority and a background on the republican party that few people bring. we are going to be hearing more from her, including tonight, because she is speaking out about what she say the key lessons are going into the next election as she discussed in her brand-new book. here she was on the "today" show. >> the notion that we would be okay, i think, is naive because if you look at, for example, the republicans who are in control of congress today, they are collaborating with donald trump. you cannot count on a house of representatives led by somebody like mike johnson to stop this president. you can't count on a senate of josh hawleys and mike lees to stop donald trump. >> you're liz cheney. you're previously known as one of the most conservative members of congress. you're the daughter of former vice president dick cheney, and you're saying it would be safer for the country if republicans weren't in control of the house. >> i think what we have seen is that you cannot count on this group of elected republicans to uphold their oath to the constitution. but what this moment also requires, savannah, is that people come together across party lines -- republicans, democrats, independents, to stand for the constitution. and that's why this election is so crucially important. >> across party lines. we will be hearing more from liz cheney in her first msnbc interview with rachel maddow tonight at 9:00 p.m.eastern. it should be interesting. so you can tune in 9:00 p.m. eastern, 6:00 p.m. pacific to hear rachel intview liz cheney tonight. go to any of our socials and tell us what do you want to hear from liz cheney because she will be on our channel this week. that does it for us. "the reidout" is up next. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> one of the things that we see happening today is sort of a sleepwalking into dictatorship in the united states. >> liz cheney on the danger of a second trump presidency, and there are new warnings tonight