inside with jen psaki starts now. >> good evening. chris hayes has a well deserved night off. this is a special edition of inside with jen psaki. the biggest danger to the world in 2024 is donald trump. not more, not a pandemic, not climate change, the former president and leading republican candidate. he's the biggest danger. and i'll don't take my word from it, i've said versions of this before. that's according to the economist. in recent days, the former president elevated a call to addressed a judge and the prosecutor in his new york fraud case. -- in a mental institution, it compared his political opponents to, quote, vermin. what is really frightening is that his language is clearly intentional. on saturday afternoon, donald trump posted this veterans day message, pledging to, quote, root out the communists, marxist, facets, and radical left dogs that live like vermin within the confines of our country. that was a post, a written post. he then repeated that fascist rhetoric, echoing adolf hitler, in front of the crowd gathered at his new hampshire rally. this wasn't off the cuff. he planned to deliver those words, as part of his big finale in his closing argument of that speech. and trump's campaign spokesperson defended the language. saying that the, quote, sad, miserable existence of those who criticize it will be crushed when president trump returns to the white house. that is not backing off of it, just in case you're wondering. so this wasn't a gaffe, this wasn't some crazy donald trump rambling riff at the end of his speech. it is his message. it is his plan. according to recent washington post reporting, quote, donald trump and his allies have been begun mapping out specific plans for using the federal government to punish critics and opponents should he win a second term. with the former president naming individuals he wants to investigate or prosecute and his associates drafting plans to potentially invoke the insurrection act on his first day in office, to allow him to deploy the military and civil demonstrations. that's what they're planning. donald trump has always been an authoritarian at heart. he loves dictators and authoritarian leaders. in fact, even just today, just a few hours ago, a judge in colorado just ruled that he did indeed incite an insurrection on january 6th. but he is allowed to remain on the ballot in that state. we're going to talk about that a little bit later in the show. but republicans have always overlooked the dangerous rhetoric. and used it to meet their ends. they figured we'll use him, they passed tax cuts, the benefited the ultra wealthy. something they've been wanting to do. they stack the same priem court in lower courts with conservative judges and of course that conservative majority on the court then struck down roe v. wade, as we all know. these priorities were so important to republicans that they were willing to look the other way. the problem is, they created a monster that they can't stop. and lots of republicans are deciding they like the way the monster does things. right, now we are watching more and more republicans embrace those anti-democratic values. -- janelle bowie explains in the new york times earlier today, quote, too many republicans, persuasion is anathema. there's no use making an argument since he might lewd. instead the game is to create a system in which heads or tails you always win. i'm going to talk to jamele later in the show, and his point is key to understanding the current republican party and that their motivation is. according to their new speaker, mike johnson, of louisiana. at first glance, they may not seem like he has much in common with donald trump. after all, the speaker is a deeper religious conservative and a covenant marriage with a penchant for nerdy glasses as well. and donald trump is, well, donald trump. if you listen carefully to speaker johnson in the hear some familiar things. >> the only question is, is god going to allow our nation to enter a time of judgment for our collective sins, which his marci and grace have held back for sometime? or is he going to give us one more chance to restore the foundation, to return to him. we will not be able to do it without the lords help. there's flush -- the mistrust in the sin is so great here, this is going to bring people to their knees. i believe god is about to do something. r knees. i believe god is about t>> see,d trump, the leaders of the republican party, both talk about america as this very dark place. that needs to be purged of sin, in johnson's words, or purged of vermin, if you're talking in donald trump's words. but those words are really catches for anyone who challenges their view of the world. anyone defending the rights of women to have an abortion, or anyone in the lgbtq community, or immigrants, really anyone who doesn't look like them, or vote for them, or believe what they do. it doesn't matter that donald trump sees this through the prism of self preservation, and mike johnson, i guess, sees it as his biblical calling. there goes are the same. to root out dissent, and the, other any other. it all has the makings of basically an authoritarian -- buddies elie movie that no one needs in this country. if donald trump's elected next year, these two men would basically be running the country. what can we do to stop that from happening? how can democrats make the argument that trump and johnson's anti-democratic vision of america is not the way forward? lots to talk with my first guest about, i'm joined by jennifer palmieri, who served as the communications director for president barack obama, as well as her 2016 hillary clinton campaign. she's now the co-host and executive producer of showtime's the circus. and anthony coley, who served as director in the doj's office of public affairs, and his senior adviser to attorney general, merrick garland. thank you so much both for being here. we were talking about this earlier today already. i want to start with you. because you are recently at a trump rally in florida. >> last wednesday. >> welcome back. >> he did as the counter programming to the republican debate. >> that one. we all know it well. he uses this language at his rallies, how do people digest it? what is the environment there? >> what was really disturbing, i remember going to trump rallies for the last four years. i always learn a lot. and i have noticed that the crowds are changing. we are in hialeah, where in south florida, a neighborhood that is heavily latino so you expect to see a larger hispanic population at this rally, and there was. the concern as he was talking to people who had not been involved, maybe they had supported trump before, they weren't going to rallies. people who either came from venezuela, cuba. i look at what you've just presented, and here that is an authoritarian leader in the making, who is trying to take over the united states and ignore our constitution. and trump supporters think that is already happened. >> that biden is doing that. >> that biden is doing just that. some people i talked to said -- i escaped venezuela, so yeah, a leader tries to put the other one in jail, that's what biden's doing to trump. they think they are fighting back to protect -- to prevent that kind of wholesale takeover happening here. of course, our side is trying to prevent donald trump from doing the same thing. so in his rhetoric, when he leans into talking about vermin and immigrants poisoning the blood of the country, and being there retribution, and he's giving indicted so the crowds get indicted. it's all about we are all on the same side fighting this common enemy. it really binds them together in a disturbing way. >> i mean, anthony, i have seen this argument so much. i get it a lot on twitter myself, joe biden is doing this. but obviously, when donald trump and his team are mapping out plans to literally take over the department of justice where you worked for a couple years, that is something entirely different. i can't believe we are here. but how different is that? what does that mean for people? >> it's very different. and what struck me about this speech was the intentionality of it, jen. we heard him -- you just said, this is not off the cuff. they meant to use this language, they meant to use that term that hitler used going into the holocaust. and as awful as that is and it is truly awful, what is equally awful is the plan that they have announced. >> the substance. >> the substance of. it >> or worse, i'd argue. >> this is not a drill. donald trump tried with limited success in his first term to use doj to his advantage. i'm thinking john kerry and federal prosecutors in new york, and thanking bill barr. trying to overturn the election. this is not a drill. i think what he learned from his first term, and we are seeing this play out in the press, is that people are policy. and now, what he's planning to do is put people in high positions of the federal government to exact political revenge. that has got to have everybody, everybody who loves our country, who love the rule of law, very concerned. >> it should be. now, it took a while for people to say trump is lying. it's been a slow roll into trump is a fascist. now, the media is saying this, democrats are saying this. some republicans are saying it. not many. i think the question for you, jen, we've all been a part of writing a lot of speeches, does it matter? everybody's out there calling him a fascist, if it's not people from his own party, is it going to have an impact? >> obviously it does. it's such a frustrating thing, truth doesn't matter as much as it used to. but it's why democrats continue to win, is because people still believe in the truth. >> yeah. >> i do think that both the washington post and the times have done a service, and treating his agenda, his agenda, very seriously. doing a lot of stories about what he would do with justice, on immigration, on the use of military, and the underlying theme that connects all of these things is consolidating power. it's consolidating power and donald trump's hands. so i think that -- we know how it's hard in the white house, there's not that many people. only one president, only one vice president. competing messages. but the world can accept a lot of competing narratives coming out of the white house and the campaign at once. i think you have to be very clear about the -- about how stark this language is. what it actually means, and draw that larger conclusion about -- >> everything they you just said is accurate. there is also space here for christian leaders. people of all faiths to stand up and to call out this language. we just heard this clip of speaker johnson. right? using the bible and language that i grew up in the church, i grew up in a religious household, i know a lot of born-again christians who don't agree, who don't share that worldview. >> this is an interesting question, anthony, you've also done up paul it takes in the south. every time you criticize mike johnson, it feels like people spit it back as you are attacking his religion. which are not. >> no, no. >> how do you differentiate that? >> let's go to scripture. my bible tells me that you should treat your neighbor as yourself. simple language, right? that is not a part of his worldview. you talked about otherness, right? and what does he think about otherness? when we use that term, we are talking about people who don't share his hetero normative worldview, or his judio christian belief system. that's what we're talking about here. and that's not the bible that i read. and that's not the bible that millions of people watching this show, they don't share this hatred. what about the god of love? right? this is what the bible is about. >> it's not the bible, it's also not the founding documents this country was founded on. >> that -- >> i'm not jon meacham sitting here, but i've read a lot. >> you can be, you're very smart to. >> i've read a lot of his books. the two things the founders were really concerned about, particularly in writing the constitution. the rise of demagogues and separating religion from. the state. and michael johnson just seems to have a very different view of how the country was founded. >> there's a lot of candidates obviously, not just at the top of the ticket, who are running now. mike johnson is the leader of the republican house. house candidates or house candidates thinking about running against mike johnson? are they going to make him an issue? >> don't you think. the republicans bought the devil, they did not know. now the democrats are there to define him. defined him accurately. >> yeah, yeah. >> i think everyone's going to know who he is by the end of 2024. >> it's a political give. this clip that you just showed, it just surfaced. my old colleagues at the dnc are just beginning to do this opposition research on this new speaker we have. >> this is basically when they are finding out more of its history to use it in the campaigns. >> oh my god, and now there's this. and not that it's not opposition or unfair, it's -- >> it's out. there >> we need to know who is number three in line. >> i agree with both of you, i think michael johnson is going to appear in a lot of campaign ads. we have to wrap it up, but i loved having you anthony and jennifer palmieri, thank you so much for joining us this evening. coming up, new backlash to the openly antisemitic messaging from the world's richest man. plus, could donald trump spend the final few months before the 2024 election sitting in an atlanta courtroom? the latest on trump's r.i.c.o. trial date. but first a judge rules that a trump engagement instruction. so why is he still on the ballot? we're going to talk about that next. next hellooo new apartment. one bank for now. for later. for life. chase. make more of what's yours. moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash. but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. it's one pill, once a day. many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin while some saw up to 100% clear skin. and, they felt dramatic and fast itch relief some as early as 2 days. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers including lymphoma and skin cancer, death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq, as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. disrupt the itch and rash of eczema. talk to your doctor about rinvoq. learn how abbvie can help you save. rsv can severely affect the lungs and lower airways. but i'm protected with arexvy. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. rsv can be serious for those over 60, including those with asthma, diabetes, copd, and certain other conditions. but i'm protected. arexvy is proven to be over 82% effective in preventing lower respiratory disease from rsv and over 94% effective in those with these health conditions. 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(♪♪) breaking news out of colorado, where a judge ruled against an attempt to keep donald trump off the ballot in 2024. this is not the first time that the judge has ruled this way, but in this ruling, the judge found, quote, that the court finds that petitioners have established that trump engaged in insurrection on january 6th, 2021. through incitement, and that the first amendment does not protect trump's speech. we are all trying to make sense of this, but joining me now, someone who can help us do that, colorado secretary of state, janet griswold. secretary griswold, thank you so much for joining us. i've been reading all the clips and trying to make sense of what this all means. let me start by just asking you what your reaction is to the ruling and what this means in colorado. >> first off, having the court say that the former president engaged in insurrection is a big news for the entire country. donald trump is a danger to american democracy, and that is something that is really novel about this case that the judge decided that. but ultimately, she has ordered me to put him on the ballot and i will of course follow whatever court order is in place by the time they certify the ballot. >> the judge found, and this is what's so interesting, it's significant, i'm not a lawyer, but that the judge did say he was involved in the insurrection, as you just said, the judge also found that trump as president was not an officer of the united states. did that surprise you? >> honestly, yes. the idea that if you are a soldier or a congress person, a u.s. senator, that if you engage in insurrection, you can't be qualified to sit in office again, but the u.s. president can engage an insurrection, and then be president again. i think it is a potentially dangerous precedent. the presidency is the most powerful office in this nation, and the idea that the u.s. constitution does not protect against a rogue insurrectionist president, i think, is a big concept. honestly, there's scholars on both sides of this issue. i think the court made a very thoughtful decision, and you know, it's a judicial process. there are days to appeal the petitioners could appeal. but donald trump could appeal also. he may not like being called an insurrectionist by this court. and very well could file an appeal. >> that would be an interesting development to. as you said, it sounds like reporting suggests the plaintiffs could appeal, we'll see what they do. there's reporting that this then would of course go, potentially, to the supreme court. the timeline of, that we can't predict entirely, here, you and i. but explain to us a little bit some of the deadlines in colorado. what timeline would that need to proceed through to have an impact, if they change the ruling? >> well, petitioners, or any party, have three days to file an appeal. that appeal would go to the colorado supreme court, and i believe the colorado supreme court would act quickly. the certification for the presidential primary in the state of colorado is january 5th. the district court, who just decided the case, we're talking about, that's the first court that this case has been in in the state of colorado, really understood the urgency of just that the election calendar, and really pushed the trial quickly. so, there's plenty of time. but regardless, if trump is on the ballot or not, american voters have all the opportunity to save american democracy. they did it in 2018, 2020, 2022. i do believe, whatever the outcome of this case is, that our democracy would be safe because americans are good people, and they know that we need to have a country where the rule of law is followed. where the u.s. constitution is uphold, and that the american people are respected. >> and democracy is very much matter, to your point, in the last several elections. colorado state secretary, jena griswold, i know you're very much gonna be on the front lines of this. thank you very much for taking the time to join us this evening. coming, up the republican parties disdain for the constitution -- jamele boy is talking about this on the state level and the push to ignore the will of voters, we'll have that up next. up next it could be a medical condition called peyronie's disease, or pd. and it could be treated without surgery. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today. 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you're not alone. as jamelle bouie wrote in his new york times column this morning, quote, there appears to be a view among many republicans that the only vote worth respecting is a vote for the party in its interest. a vote against them is a vote that doesn't count. and jamelle bouie joins me now. so jamelle, your column, which i've been watching a lot of these things, but it's so important for people to pay attention to this. because your column says, i'm gonna quote this, to many republicans, unfortunately, persuasion and not them a. there is no use making an argument since you mightlose. instead, the game is to create a system in which heads or tails, you always win. this feels like you make lots of good examples, this is playing out across the country. where the focus is cracking down and weakening power. but tell us a little bit more about where you are seeing this and what people should really be watching for. >> there have been two examples this year that i think we can point to very clearly. the first was in wisconsin, where wisconsin voters elected a liberal member of the state supreme court. the argument during the system of breaking these heavily gerrymandered -- that allowed wisconsin republicans to hold large majorities in an outright supermajority without actually needing that percentage of the vote. and upon winning, upon this local judge winning this race, wisconsin republicans immediately floated plans to impeach her, to remove her, to nullify. they didn't go through with it, but it was a serious discussion that was taking place. as you mentioned, in ohio, in the wake of this vote to approve abortion rights in the state constitution, you have these republican lawmakers. and you're gonna look at ways that basically parrot back to nullify it, and this, is as i point out in my column, this is a thing that you continue seeing again and again. you saw it in florida, you've seen it in missouri, where voters, not long ago, approved a medicaid expansion in the state legislature, said they were going to do it. voters using referendum initiatives to bypass the legislatures that aren't particularly representatives. and legislature saying, well, we don't have to listen to you. >> which is so crazy. because it's the will of the voters and the will of the people making these decisions. voters awhen i was reading your, it did make me think of something rick centaur said something after the ohio abortions referendum -- i'm gonna played again just in case people to remember it. >> you put very sexy things like abortion and marijuana on the ballot, and a lot of young people come out and vote. it was a secret sauce for disaster in ohio. i don't know what they were thinking. that's why, i think, most of the states in this country allow you to put everything on the ballot. because pure democracies are not the way to run a country. >> peer democracies are not the way to run a country. but he kind of -- what he said, summed up a little bit, to me, of what you are warning about in your column, but what do you think? >> i think that's right. there is this idea -- he uses this phrase pure democracy is not a way to run a country. you see this talk amongst a lot of republicans and conservatives quite a bit these days about how pure democracy is this threat, pure democracy and this vision isn't like a literal classical greek assembly. it's just a lot of people participating in a process. that's what they're identifying as pure democracy. they really do see it as a threat to their priorities. a threat to their interests, and they're pulling this bit of a rhetorical trick, where the institution or the thing that is sovereign are the people. but the state legislature are the things that actually really count. and so they get to do whatever they want with regards to. rejecting, or approving laws, legislation, to never they want with regards to shaping the electorate itself. this is all, i, mean i think it's pretty self interested. say legislatures are one of the places that have been very consistent. where you can do quite a lot with a relatively little federal oversight. it's possible to create these impenetrable gerrymandered calls to do whatever you want from the state legislature. and so naturally this idea is developing that these are just, this is where governance has to happen. in all cases. and either way, what we are seeing, i think pretty clearly, is a push, against the notion that the broad population of american voters really deserves a say in the governance of the country. the governance of their state. >> i mean, jamelle, i'm so grateful you could join us this evening. your column is such a reminder that it's not just donald trump, it's not just mike johnson. this is happening in states across the country. and actually, that's how it may impact peoples lives the most. thank you, again. still ahead, the white house condemns the promotion of antisemitism, by elon musk, as hate and disinformation spreads far beyond his platform. plus, is donald trump's 2024 kilo under fills with court appearances, there's lots of them, could this georgia trial take him right up until election day? 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what do you make of this ruling? >> it's just not the laypeople. common sense says he's got to be officer of the united states. there is a constitutional argument there, some experts have come out on their side. but most of the weight says he is an officer. i think that's a rather archaic reading of it, outdate. but what she does -- she's a little bit saying -- [inaudible] >> an interesting point to all these trials, this is a lot of trials. a lot of trial-ing in 2024 for donald trump. andrew weissmann, a friend of all of ours, an msnbc fan favorite, posted that fani willis's request for the august 5th date highlights, quote, the pernicious nature of what florida judge aileen cannon is up to. she was walking an earlier georgia date, as her trump case is scheduled for a may 20th trial. but all evidence suggests she has zero intention of holding the florida trial. so translation being, she's holding on to that may 20th date, so it forces fani willis to do august. but all of this could bump later. what do you think? >> i think that's a very good theory by andrew. she has a lot a very legitimate sounding means to delay that. i mean, my take on the issue, i'd like to delay it to help trump. but she doesn't have to go out on that limb and say i'm going to delay this whole thing. she can incrementally do that. and by doing it this way, she probably insulates herself from a more direct rebuke from the 11th circuit, the weight happened before. >> so incrementally means, oh, it just delays a little, bit it delays a couple of weeks. she waits to delay it until later in the spring, something like that? >> yeah, for example, having the hearing about the way they're going to handle the classified documents, by postponing that, not having the deadline right now to announce which documents were going to be used, all those things are quite time consuming. so the more you push that out, the more, ultimately, that trial date will tend to slip. >> i wanted to ask you about the gag order, because i think we're all whiplash in around, trying to figure out what is exactly happening with it. why do you think the appellate judge paused the gag order? and what do you think the chances are that it will be fully reinstated? because we're obviously seeing trump and his allies act out, shall we say. >> i think it's pretty common for appeals courts to want to have that type of a freeze, the status quo. so that they can fully adjudicate the legal issues. i think it's misapplied here, because we are the real harm's, usually in the state, when there's some aspect of damage, irreparable damage, can't be undone, there's nothing that can be undone here if you do restrict his right to speak. because later, he'll get to speak as much as he wants. the remedy for first amendment speech is more speech, really. these are not cases that he's being prosecuted for his speech. what they are talking about here, in new york, is outside the case, he's saying things that could endanger people, damage the integrity of the process. that's the real danger. i think it's a mistake to lift that, and we see that from what's happened as soon as it got lifted. >> it's also this question of what impacts them? right? because a lawyer arguing for the judge in the hearing on the gag order said that the clerk was being inundated with messages after her phone number and other persal details were posted on social media. by trump supporters, and many of those messages are antisemitic. how did those impact the decision of the full appellate panel? >> i think the appellate panel really has to consider what kind of threat there is in the charged atmosphere. it makes perfect sense to control the judicial process by limiting speech in these circumstances. it's really like the old yelling fire in a theater. which is what they're trying to do. there's kind of a more subtle thing that trump's lawyers may be doing there to, which is obviously, they hit a raw spot on the judges clerk. and they just keep poking that. i think there's a hope that it will really provoke the judge into a more angry state, which may give them a better basis for appeal, or maybe even mistrial. >> that would be interesting to see. doesn't seem to be stopping. we are rolling around every legal case here. but also today, d.a. willis also said in her filing that, quote, the state also requested a final plea date be set for june 21st, 2024. after the final plea date, the defendants will only have the option of not negotiated please. i'm just reading this directly. the state intends to recommend maximum sentences that any remaining sentencing hearings. it sounds like she setting a deadline for play deals for trump, and other remaining codefendants. why was that important to include in today's filing, why was it there? >> she really wants to help ramp up the pressure in towards pushing that could be a real date. but she doesn't want to have happen is more delays going on. she really wants to do is, of course, get more people to flip. so by saying this is it, the game of musical chairs is ending. i'm calling it quits at a certain time. she's hoping that will really pressure some people to come forward. >> shannon, from colorado to every legal case facing trump, around the world, and back again, thank you so much for joining me this evening. it's great to see you. and still to come, the latest examples of the far-right social media problem. they have a big one. as elon musk and donald trump's right antisemitism and hate to their millions of followers. that's coming up next. coming up next. ♪♪ ♪♪ cargurus. shop. buy. sell. online. meet the traveling trio. the thrill seeker. the soul searcher. and - ahoy! it's the explorer! each helping to protect their money with chase. woah, a lost card isn't keeping this thrill seeker down. lost her card, not the vibe. the soul searcher, is finding his identity, and helping to protect it. hey! oh yeah, the explorer! she's looking to dive deeper... all while chase looks out for her. because these friends have chase. alerts that help check. tools that help protect. one bank that puts you in control. chase. make more of what's yours. moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash. but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. it's one pill, once a day. many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin while some saw up to 100% clear skin. and, they felt dramatic and fast itch relief some as early as 2 days. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers including lymphoma and skin cancer, death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq, as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. disrupt the itch and rash of eczema. talk to your doctor about rinvoq. >> in many ways, the republican learn how abbvie can help you save. party is the party of donald trump. and elon musk. between the two of them, they are occupying a whole lot of space. oxygen and frankly, influence, within the maga wing. this week, the spotlight is very much been on antisemitic language from those two prominent figures. first, the former president and current leading republican candidate, donald trump, echoed the language of adolf hitler. when he referred to his political opponents as vermin. then, multi billionaire businessman, and the owner of a major social media platform, elon musk, promoted an antisemitic cumbers -- conspiracy theory. he responded to a post on x that said jewish communities push, quote, hatred against whites, with the comment, you have said of the actual truth. yeah, so he's agreeing with that there. those comments from trump and musk are, of course, dangerous, and completely hateful. and people have pushed back. obviously, as they should. trump's comments prompted backlash from the white house, and even some republicans. musk posts also elicited a response from the white house today. accusing him of repeating a hideous lie and promoting anti semitic and racist hate, all accurate. now, that pushback is all great. but let's be clear, this was not the week that their antisemitic tropes were launched, by any means. this has been brewing for a very, very long time. including straight from the mouths of these exact same to man. there was a particular anecdote i thought of this week, from susan glasser and peter baker's book, the divider, about when trump was president. when he reportedly complained to his then chief of staff, john kelly, a retired marine corps general, by the way, saying, why can't you be more like the german generals? kelly asked, which ones? trump said, the german generals in world war ii. kelley reminded trump, you do know that they tried to kill hitler three times and almost pulled it off? to which trump said, no, no, no, they were totally loyal to him. now, regardless of his slight confusion there over history, trumps that is, the point is, he was complaining that u.s. generals lack the loyalty that german generals showed to hitler. and elon musk did not exactly wake up this weekend become antisemitic either. since he took over at twitter, he has allowed it to become a forum for hate speech to prosper. he even restore the twitter account of prominent neo-nazi, andrew anglin, a year ago, who also applauded mask, later, for quote, coming in hot like this against the jewish agenda. so while it is important that political figures and companies are speaking up this week, this has been festering for a very long time. it's not at all new. which is partly why it has grown to be so damaging. because trump, and to an even greater to gary, musk, have been able to leave space to spark hate speech with little repercussions. and they seem to know it. so in this environment, how do we put this all in a box? can we put this in a box? -- is a senior reporter for nbc news, where she covers misinformation, extremism, and the internet. she's got to help explain this to all of us and she joins me now. so brandi, i want to say, you've covered all of this for so long, how long has this been growing online? my view is this isn't just this week, but what is your assessment of that? >> yeah, well, antisemitism isn't new to the world, and it's not new to twitter or the internet. it's always going to exist there, to some extent, but for a very long time, twitter actually cared about having what they called healthy conversations, so they really try to keep the worst of it from off the platform. then about a year ago, the world's richest man bought it and he signaled right away the things that you just mentioned that he didn't really mind so much if the battlers of antisemitism and hate and misinformation thrived on the platform. and like you said, he actually restored the accounts of literal not seize. then he stripped away verification, and he amplified people who paid $8 for an account, often -- people again who spewed hate and misinformation. it turned it into a place that wasn't for news or conversations about was really for the angriest, most incendiary posters, of which musk is included. so like you said, for the last year, we have seen mosque post these conspiracy theories. today, or this week, it was the stuff about the actual truth that jewish organizations are colluding, to somehow wipe out whites, by immigration. before that, we had paul pelosi's attack. he suggested that it was this very anti-gay, ridiculous conspiracy theory. instead of the attack that it was. all of this has run rampant on x. in the last year. back in december, power users were leaving. they were saying the platform was toxic. advertisers were fleeing, and pr left in april. but they wore between israel and hamas really sort of supercharge to this whole thing, and all of this rhetoric. and elon's post, really this week, have come at this time where it really just feels like the straw that is breaking the camels back. >> to your point, brandi, the war, obviously in the wake of the israel-hamas war now, it has companies grappling with an increased online disinformation. everybody is grappling with this. what are the guardrails? are there guardrails people are proposing that make sense? what could be done to kind of crack down on that online? >> i mean, it is a mess out there, right? there are specific websites that you can go to, and you can find some really noxious content. but, i am on a lot of other social media sites. i am on threads, i'm en masse to don, i'm on blue sky. and i can tell you something, is that we are not seeing this same problem there. the reason for that is because there is some sort of north star guiding the platform. unfortunately, twitter's north star, or ex north star, excuse me, is elon musk. he's the most popular person on the platform. he guides the conversations on the platform. and he promotes the users and the topics that we see on the platform. unfortunately, as we see, as he's taking his mask off, we see what kind of ideology may be behind that. >> beyond calling, it sounds like it's elon musk, and that's where the answer is here. that sounds like what you are saying. beyond calling him out, obviously, there's a number of companies pulling ads, what else can be done? what else could be done to influence him or changed how things are monitored on twitter, or x? >> i actually just posted this to twitter, but there is this -- stay with me for a second. there's this famous meme that came from years ago, it was first on twitter. it's the skeleton that is sort of mid stride, and the text says just walk out. if it sucks, you can leave. and that's what can be done. people can vote with their feet. there used to be a question of whether responsible, trustworthy leaders should stick around, because maybe they could influence what was an important source of information. but the idea of truth or healthy conversation happening on that space now, it's really, it's just not something, and an idea that you are seeing from the existing users. >> brandy zadrozny, i will re-post that so people can see your skeleton maim. which seems fun, and maybe it will help explain all of this to all of us. thank you so much for joining me this evening. and for all the reporting you do on an issue that is so important to so many people out there. that does it for this special addition of inside with jen psaki. hopefully chris hayes had an amazing, wonderful, great, well deserved tonight off. i will be back on sunday at noon. and monday at eight pm. as well. alex wagner, my good friend, is going to start off her show right now. hi alex. i love a special addition of jen psaki. >> there are so many amazing chris hayes fans out there. i am one of them. i don't want people to think he's going anywhere. >> he's not going anywhere, but this makes it a special friday night, and i'm enjoyit,