it looked like when robert f. kennedy junior officially announced that he would run as a third party candidate for president. [crowd chanting] [applause] >> i need my speech. [laughter] you can't read anything. you can't read anything. what? [crowd chanting] it's upside down. it's upside down. >> it's upside down. that is how rfk junior began his independent bid for the presidency last month, and that is kind of how it's been the whole time with rfk junior. his campaign has been full of unfortunate stunts, like pushing videos of himself doing pushups shirtless for the camera, for no reason at all. he is trafficked in wild conspiracy theories that are more suited to the dark web or a reddit page. >> covid-19 is targeted to attack caucasians and black people. the people most immune are ashkenazi jews. i don't know what happened on 9/11. i mean, i understand with the official explanation is. i understand that there is the scent. >> so there's that in your mind that al-qaeda was responsible. >> well, i know, i don't know, you know. i know they're strange things that have happened. >> and yet, the spite the f no immunity theories and 9/11 trutherism's, there are still people in this country that think the rfk junior belongs in the white house. this week, the new york times and cnn columnist released a poll of six battleground states, arizona, nevada, georgia, michigan, pennsylvania and wisconsin. they found an f3 white race, 24% of registered voters in those swing states pick rfk junior. 33% shows joe biden, 35% shows donald trump. digging a little deeper, that same poll found rfk junior beating both joe biden and donald trump among voters younger than 45. that is most pronounced among americans aged 18 to 29. candy -- kennedy at 34%, biden at 30%, and donald trump at 29%. another poll from quinnipiac found rfk getting 22% of the three right race, with biden receiving the jefferson and trump receiving 36%. now, it's not that voters are all of a sudden trooper levers that 9/11 was an inside job, or that covid is a government by a weapon, but it does appear that voters, especially young voters, are unhappy with both the likely nominees here and a third party candidate could have a real shot at the shopping this election. enough so that the current president of the united states and the former president of the united states could lose a key voting bloc to a shirtless vaccine skeptic. against that backdrop, we got this surprise announcement today. >> i have made one of the toughest decisions of my life and decided that i will not be running for reelection to the united states senate. but what i will be doing is traveling the country and speaking out to see if there is an interesting creating a movement to mobilize the middle. >> west virginia democratic senator joe manchin announced today that he is not running for reelection in west virginia, and he hinted that was her sons like a potential third party presidential run. that whole traveled the country, talk to voters thing is reminiscent of hillary clinton's tour in 2015, before she ran for president. manchin's decision to not run for the senate seat as a moderately created problems are democrats looking to keep control of the senate in 2024. that is when the party will be defending seats and red states like ohio and montana. but a third party presidential bid by joe manchin, that complicates things on an entirely different level. if he decides to enter the race, manchin will be joining at least three other independent candidates. but precisely because he is a mainstream political actor and a democrat and not doing shirtless pushups and talking about the immune systems of ashkenazi jewish people, joe manchin could significantly change the landscape of the 2024 race, among a wider swath of voters, in a way that even the other third party candidates cannot. which is why, according to the washington post, republican senator mitt romney has been pushing manchin to give up on the idea of a presidential run, saying, i lobbied continuously, that it would only electrons. for now, all we know is that joe manchin is leaving the senate to see if there is a movement to mobilize the middle. joining me now are my friends, jennifer palmieri and mark mckinnon, co-host of the showtime's the circus, which after a great seasons, will air its series finale on sunday at seven pm eastern. i say that with a tear in my eye. >> you're not a big crier, alex, i am very moved. >> i am emotional about it. we'll get to a later after we have gotten to, well, equally emotional stuff, but in a different way. thank you for being here. mark, i have to start with you, because every time we wanted to interview joe manchin on the circus, we say, can they get us manchin? listen, i know, you know, joe manchin. you have talked to joe manchin. you helped establish the label of the sort of third party independent organization that you are no longer affiliated with. >> let's make that clear, yes. >> wonderfully clear. how do you read the decision at the announcement on joe manchin. today >> it's the surprise to me. manchin has always been thinking about something like this, making it look like this. -- jim justice would be a much stronger candidate, as republicans win and state, for trump, it's huge. it was like it for joe biden that manchin was their, when he was, to pass key legislation. >> although some people would say that he made it difficult to pass. >> sure, but they would not have passed the infrastructure bill without joe manchin. without joe justice, they would not have that bill. >> that is true. >> here's the thing, he obviously has a history of no labels. or familiar with each other. i've not been associated for a long time, so i don't know -- >> can i say it again, i am not affiliated -- >> i don't want to speak for the organization, and i don't know what is going on, or what the conversations have been, but he has a history, i think, that could line up. but here's the bottom line for me. i trust joe lieberman more than anyone in politics. he's a man of faith, a man of his words. he says a couple of things, one, if we put this together and cannot win, we're not going to pull it down. >> joe manchin? >> joe manchin or whoever is on the ticket. >> you set joe lieberman. >> but joe lieberman is the chairman of -- he's the chairman of no labels. >> that makes sense, i did not know that. >> he's the chairman of no labels. he is a man, like you said, i trust anything he says. if we put together this ticket, they cannot clearly win, will pull it down. the other thing he says is that the whole point of the exercise is to ensure that that trump is not reelected, so there's another plan b. this is mckinnon going rogue, but they can put popular republicans on the no labels ballot in five key swing states and take votes away from trump. >> but just as it pertains to manchin, i think there is a certain segment of the democratic electorate that heard the manchin announcement, and our hearts dropped. it's been a week for democrats. at the beginning of the week, the poll numbers, right? and then the high of tuesday night, the democratic platform, remain sound and strong. >> they are showing up everywhere, voting for democrats, it's like fall of 2022 still. and now -- >> there is a question about how much joe biden and the democratic platform are one in 2024, whether the distastes for abortion restrictions and any other issues that republicans bring up, are enough to translate into strong support for joe biden. i got to read the statement at the white house to, eugene. joe, gayle and the entire manchin family ship feel proud for the service in west virginia and our country. i look forward to continuing our work together, to get things done for the american people, says joe biden to joe manchin. our work together, jen, subjects, please don't run against me. >> in 2016, and jill stein, all it took was a gentle stun to run as the green party candidate, her margin of victory -- or the vote that she got in michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania was enough to get those states to donald trump. now, we have rfk junior, justine, cornell west and possibly joe manchin. so, it is -- joe manchin getting in the race, the whole thing explodes. we are in a different situation. now, having said that, there is zero evidence that there is grassroots support in america for a joe manchin candidacy. you cannot concoct these kinds of candidacies in a laboratory in washington d. c.. there needs to be some movement among grassroots that they want someone like him. my view is that there is a centrist that people can vote for anti presidential primary, and the presidential election, his name is joe biden. the agenda that he has put forward, the agenda that he is passing and asking for, it is right down the middle of mainstream america and supported by a big majority of america. you already have that. i just don't see what the theory is with a manchin candidacy. >> yeah, that's the question, right, does he siphon votes from biden or trump, but we know from polling, if you believe it. biden's problems are with younger voters and voters of color. >> not exactly his constituency, right? >> that is not joe manchin's bread and butter. does this hurt joe more than biden, if joe decides to run? >> i think the same as lieberman has said, i think the same is true, at the end of the day, joe manchin, he's a poker player, we'll put everything on the line, but at the end of the day, i don't think he would want to let donald trump get reelected. >> he is a good poker player. >> i do wonder, i do wonder -- let me just talk about the senate before we get into a big extension discussion about the middle and america. there is the very real, the looming reality that democrats could lose the senate in 2020. there is -- the joe manchin seat will go to a republican. >> we came to terms to that a while ago, joe justice will run against him, and then he will not be able to defeat somebody like that. and then it means that the democrats will have to win kristen sinema, does he need to be held by her or a democrat. that means that they have to hold and montana, get a chance of. that sherrod brown is with the work in ohio, very red states that democrats have to win to hold up the senate. >> when you talk about -- not shared brown, but when you think about kristen sinema and jon tester and even joe manchin, it also speaks to a certain reality of modern american politics, which is that the democratic tent has got real big, right? as the republican party has shrunk to a smaller and smaller group of the sort of maga acolytes, the democratic tent has expanded bigger and bigger. it's almost sort of like, it's the plain and obvious that if either side is going to shed centrists at this point, it's going to be the democratic party. that seems to be a natural extension of the intent to some. >> individual candidates, they share races. you saw that with -- in kentucky for the end of the sheer race. jon tester, montanans know who he is. these candidates are very adept at working really hard to communicate within their own state about who they are, that is what they would have to do. >> jon tester knows retractable 's. >> yes, he does. >> one of my favorite scenes on the circus. >> they can be flat tire. >> that is jon tester for you. >> on his tractor. >> i want to ask you guys both, because when we talk about american politics, it's impossible to talk about, it's impossible to avoid conversations about things that we don't -- have done on the circus, whether it's jon tester having the tractor, or chasing joe manchin down on his hospital in washington d. c.. these are things that happen, for people that watch the circus. you guys have had a front row seat. i was there for a little bit of a, watching american politics, and i wonder whether you think, that as much we talk about how joe manchin could change the rules are not, whether you think that conventional wisdom, even still applies anymore, or we talk about what we think would happen -- >> absolutely not. >> i don't know. >> dick about conventional wisdom. it was that this show would be one and done. we would cover the hillary clinton for president candidate. >> the circus just did one presidential race, not all of them. >> we thought we would be one and done. how interesting with the hillary clinton presidency not being that interesting in a good way, but two weeks later, the circus had not stopped going. 130 absolute. are part of it is that it was a surprise after surprise that the surprise. if we pitched this as a fictional script, they would have turned it out. >> i feel like that night in atlanta, on january 5th, 2021, in atlanta, alex and i were both there covering jon ossoff and raphael warnock. they won. we had this conversation -- >> it was a feeling that we are in a different point of american politics. >> democrats are also cited but, that but that so many people voted, and they won in a runoff, more than ever before, and biden had won, and trump was not going to be able to steal the white house away from him. and then the next morning, the bottom fully fell out. that is when i felt like there are just -- you can look like very recent history to see like 2022, what motivated the turnout then, but to think that you can look back 20 or 30 years and predict how things are going to go based on what is necessary, it's very different time. >> you can say ross perot and justin all you want, but who really knows anything anymore about where we are headed. >> nobody knows nothing about nothing. >> listen, folks, i am sorry that we won't have the circus to tune into on sunday nights at seven regularly, but i am thrilled that maybe this means we'll be in new york city and available to join me more often. >> stay tuned. >> i will stay tuned. thank you for joining me, and congratulations. >> thank you for all you did for the circus. you were the straw that spurred the circus. >> the cocktail swizzle stick. >> couldn't have done it without you. he really helped to make it the success that i was. >> olivia. palmieri and mark mckinnon, thank you for joining me tonight, my friends. did not forget to tune into the series finale of the circus this sunday at seven pm eastern on showtime. we have a lot more this evening, including an in-depth look at the on again, off again relationship between donald trump and fox news, which is apparently on again. ryan stelter joins me with a preview of his new chronicle about the network of lies. plus, special counsel jack smith previews a big piece of his case against trump and trump's attempt to steal the 2020 election, that is next. ext. every day, more dog people are deciding it's time for a fresh approach to pet food. developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door. it's smarter, healthier pet food. when you have chronic kidney disease... ...there are places you'd like to be. like here. and here. not so much here. farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure which can lead to dialysis. ♪far-xi-ga♪ farxiga can cause serious side effects, 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that's service the way you need it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ c'mon, we're right there. c'mon baby. it's the only we need. go, go, go, go! ah! touchdown baby! -touchdown! are your neighbors watching the same game? yeah, my 5g home internet delays the game a bit. but you get used to it. try these. they're noise cancelling earmuffs. i stole them from an airport. it's always something with you, man. great! solid! -greek salad? exactly! don't delay the game with verizon or t-mobile 5g >> so this, week we got an home internet. catch it on the xfinity 10g network. interesting preview of a very important case. jack smith's trial strategy in the federal indictment of donald trump's efforts to undermine the 2020 election. last month, trump's lawyers asked the judge in the case, a judge tanya chutkan, to dismiss language when the indictment that linked trump to the violence of january six. and the special counsel's team responded to that to speak, calling trump's request a merit-less effort to evade the indictments clear allegations, that the defendant is responsible for the events at the capitol on january six. the defendants knew that the crowd that he had gathered in washington for the certification was going to be angry, despite this knowledge or perhaps because of it, the defendant told knowing lies about the vice presidents role of the congressional certification and directed the crowd to march to the capitol and fight. the special counsel plans to join two narratives here, one that trump lied about election fraud and, to, that he incited violence as a last resort to stay in power. this is from political today. by combining the trump allegations of election fraud with the riot, jack smith is unlocking a mountain of case log developed and the generous six rise cases, paying trump more clearly through the violence than he has been today. in short, smith has casting trump as one of the 1200 plus right defendants we have already charged. joining me now is mary mccord, former u.s. assistant attorney in washington d. c. and former acting assistant attorney general for national security. she is also, of course, the co-host of the msnbc podcast, parkas prosecuting donald trump. mary, it's good to see you tonight. we have not talked enough about the filings this week for the special counsel's office. this one to me seems significant in the it ties those 1200 plus jan six cases through the looming federal trial against donald trump on january six charges. can you explain a little bit the significance of uniting those two, as they call it, mountains of case law? >> yeah, first i have to say, it's kind of funky to me how this has come up, because emotions to strike parts of an indictment is kind of a silly motion. the indictment is not even given to the jury, and whether decor checks or not, i don't think the court will, for all the reasons that jack smith argues, it's kind of meaningless when it comes to trial, but this may show that trump is planning to actually file a motion to actually prohibit the introduction of the evidence that jack smith has now set in his response, that he will be introducing, but i think what we're seeing now is really just a further explanation of what was already in the indictment. the indictment showed the multi prong effort, beginning with the lies, the pressure on state legislators, the pressure on the fraudulent electors to -- the pressure on vice president pence, the combination with the riot during which trump himself added fuel to the fire. remember at 2:24, at the riot, trump tweets out that mike pence did not have the courage to do what needed to be done, and the u.s. demands the truth. looking down at the indictment. so already, it ties into the violence, but here, we're seeing exactly what the government says it intends to introduce, video evidence, geolocation evidence, other evidence, things the show that are relevant, meaning that they tend to prove evidence more probable than not and relevant. they are important to show the motive and intent of donald trump, things that he did during the riot, things that he said after, shows that he intended all along to obstruct the official proceeding. he intended all along for his conduct to result in overriding the will of the people, and that it provides important context as well, for explaining the entire -- remember, he was charged with three different conspiracies. i think it's a natural outgrowth of what was in the indictment, but we see and much greater details, a preview of what the trial, what the evidence will show a trial. >> particularly, when you talk about the evidence that he is planning to introduce, that maybe trump would like to see lock, there is a particular part of it that i thought was intriguing. this is a quote from the government's response to trump 's solution. testimony will establish that the defendant was informed of, don't indifferent to, the fact that the vice president had to be evacuated for the senate to a secure location. although the defendant knew that the proceedings had been airlifted and suspended, he rejected multiple treaties to calm the rioters and since that provoke them by publicly attacking the vice president. mary, that sure sounds like someone has testified about what was happening in the west wing, or in the white house, during the insurrection, what was going on with donald trump. it's kind of a black hole of information. in my mind, it immediately went to mark meadows, we know is cooperating or talk to jack smith at least three times, and has been granted immunity in all of this. >> certainly, this representation shows that the government believes it can prove that donald trump was well aware of what was happening, not just based on what watching the videos, as we have heard from cassidy atkinson, that he was watching video, the television, of the riots, but also, that he was well aware of the evacuation of mike pence, as he say. so, they would not be putting it there if they did not the proof. i think your speculation of meadows is probably as good as any, because certainly, we know from cassidy hutchinson, that he was in contact with the president throughout that day. >> i do wonder, mary, the prosecution would also like to know whether trump is going to assert an advice of counsel defense, something we talked about last night. if he does assert that, then that entitles jack smith even more evidence, does it not? including correspondence between trump and his lawyers, several of whom have already pleaded guilty down in georgia. >> that's right. as a judge chutkan ruled, when she said i'll give you more time before you give prior notice, the government wanted the noticing december, i am going to let it be in january. trump's lawyers have already offered to provide noticing events by january 15th, i believe is the day. but i will require if he provides notice, he is going to reply enough ice a council, because that waves at the attorney-client privilege, he has two at the same time disgusted the government all of the communications that he intends to rely on, communications with his lawyers that he intends to rely on to make the advice of counsel defense, as well as anything, any communications that he does not intend to rely on, but there are relevant to it. things that might detract from any advice of counsel defense. the judge also discusses how an advice of counsel defense, or the government and its briefing has discussed that you required that you disclose all pertinent facts to your lawyer when you're seeking advice, and then you rely on that advice in good faith. it remains to be seen what this of the judge's ruling, whether in fact, that is a defense that the president will -- wear the former president will decide to rely upon. >> a lot remains to be seen, doesn't it. mary mccord, thank you for a time and last night, it's good to see you. >> my pleasure. >> coming up, fox news paid a whopping $787 million some to avoid further embarrassing revelations on the eve of its trial and the dominion voting systems. brian stelter's new book has the inside scoop on the settlement. fox's firing of tucker carlson, it's pivotal role in promoting the big lie and the networks current relationship with donald trump. brian stelter joins me coming up next. before golo, nothing seemed to work. i was exercising for over an hour every day. it was really discouraging. but golo's so easy, the weight just falls off. so i didn't think i needed swiffer, until, i saw how easily it picked up my hair every time i dried it! only takes a minute. look at that! the heavy duty cloths are extra thick, for amazing trap & lock. even for his hair. wow. and for dust, i love my heavy duty duster. the fluffy fibers trap dust on contact, up high and all around without having to lift a thing. i'm so hooked. you'll love swiffer. or your money back! you deserve better than that. i'm hungry, i'm in a hurry, i 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the call was wrong, it was that it was right. that call broke the red mirage that trump had been basking in all night, and trump was furious. his followers were to. so they stopped watching. the new york times got their hands of audio recordings of fox's susan scott complaining that if we had not called arizona, ratings would have been bigger. after that, fox's audience started going to places that were telling them what they want to do here, that donald trump could still win. on october 7th -- december 7th, foxes for that right competitor, newsmax, beat box in the ratings for the first time ever. and fox wanted its audience back badly, so it gave the people what it wanted. as brian stelter reports in its new book, network of lies, fox needed a ratings rebound, and some producers explicitly said, rudy giuliani and sidney powell would provide a. any day with rudy and sidney's guaranteed gold. fox executives discussed segments featuring trump lawyers and their election lies, as tenth polls, meaning despite the rating so possibly, it looked like a tent pole. brian stats are puts it in his new book, the lesson fox learned from the arizona caucus not to tell its audience things that it did not want to hear, and definitely not to say anything that could be seen. as bad for donald trump. that lesson went well beyond fox coverage of the 2020 election. after the january 6th attack, tucker carlson tried to brush off the gravity of the insurrection and went out of his way to avoid pinning any of the blame for it on trump. carlson's executive producer explained that, in a tax, by referencing that arizona decision. we're threading a needle that has to be tried because that the dumb bleeps at fox on election day. we can't make people think we've turned against trump. one of the other big revelations from stelter's book, at one point, fox did try to ditch trump. two days after january six, fox's chairman and owner, rupert murdoch, emailed a former fox executive that fox news was very busy pivoting, and that he wanted to make trump a non-person. stelter writes that that was not an empty statement. for a while, trump's claims about fox opposing him is not a conspiracy theory but an actual plan. rupert really did try to make trump a non-person. that meant lots of little changes, like a no phone or riddick, meaning that donald trump could not just phoned into fox news whenever he wanted. but in a bigger sense, that meant turning to a new vigor conservative, governor ron desantis. needless to say, that did not work. trump's legal troubles mean that he is still constantly in the news, and he is his party's front runner for the presidency. but most importantly of all, fox audience still loves trump. the murdaugh family friend told stelter that the dynamic is now. rupert hates trump and cannot believe we are going to and back up with trump. but fox seems resigned to welcoming trump back into the fold. the summer, fox news is ceo and president were spotted at trump's bedminster golf club, reportedly begging trump to participate in fox's presidential debate. they could not risk not having him on their air. brian stelter joins me live to talk about all of this next. ♪ i wanna hold you forever ♪ hey little bear bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm gonna love you forever ♪ ♪ ♪ c'mon, bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ you don't...you don't have to worry... ♪ ♪ be by your side... i'll be there... ♪ ♪ with my arms wrapped around... ♪ ( ♪♪ ) rsv is in for a surprise. meet arexvy. 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( ♪♪ ) >> on the very first page of brian stelter's new book network of lies, the fox network's culpability for the events of january 6th, the coup attempt could not have happened without the help of fox news, he writes. all of the indictments donald trump faced in 2023 are related, in one way or another, to the misguided advice, misinformation, and mendacity of the fox machine. stelter writes that almost three years later, and after a a rapprochement with trump, fox is the black widow at the center of a web of lies that perverts american politics. joining us now is brian stelter, author of network of lies, the epic saga fox news, don trump, in the battle of the american democracy. i'm thrilled to have my own copy right here. >> i signed it for you. thank, you alex. >> first of all, people say a lot of things about how fox's poisoning democracy. even a sort of granular assessment in deep reporting of how literally fox is feeding trump the -- that led to the coup attempt. >> they knew what they were doing. that's why these emails and text are so important and explicit. summer published last spring. but i had to write this book because there are so many other messages in this document dump in wilmington, delaware, the needed to see the right day. >> to be clear, that is the discovery from the dominion. >> the means lawyers were able to get inside and read all of the emails with sean hannity, tucker carlson, and read what they were saying at the time. i have never seen any major company in the company in the states expose the way fox was exposed. we could talk about other companies being sued. but when it comes to fox, it is remarkable to see how they ceded the big lie for trump. the big lie didn't just happen in 2020. it was made to happen. went on the, air toll detail about dominion, to help sydney powell, the trump aligned lawyer, in four days later trump started saying it. you thank sean hannity on his twitter for telling him all about dominion. it was fox ceded the story that gets us down the path for generally six. >> what stands me is the degree to which donald trump is it once the puppet master and the puppeteer, sorry the puppet itself. when he seems to have exhausted his utility, exhausted his utility for fox news after january 6th, there is this brief moment where they are like, oh, forget that guy, never mind, including sean hannity. >> yes his greatest ally. >> sean hannity, this sort of shadow chief of staff in the white house, right, you have reporting, sean hannity, after january 6th, suzanne scott, fox's ceo, tells rupert murdoch that hannity wants to help lead the 75 million forward away from trump. >> when my favorite quotes for the book. because the 75 million refers to trump voters in 2020, and here's china hannity saying i want to take them in a more truthful direction. not only is he saying, in the boxes bosses saying it to rupert murdoch. in her network is this plan to move away from trump. trump's not wrong. the really was a conspiracy against him inside fox. but somehow, between 2021 and now, that is totally broken down. as he gained power within the media. >> can we talk a bit about the networks current relationship with fox, with trump, as you see it? he's obviously the prohibitive front runner in the presidential race. he's as strong as he has been among the republican electorate. does fox, i mean, is all forgiven? and to what do you feel like fox feels like it needs to actively curry favor with trump? i ask that because it's interesting in and of itself. but because there's going to be january six 2025? >> yes, there is an effort to curry favor with trump. you saw that with the bedminster asking him to do the debate. locks gave up on that eventually, but there is definitely an attempt to resume the relationship. there's another quote in the book, rupert murdoch saying i had trouble on the phone in 2020 in trump says year 90% good at fox, but i need to be hundred percent good. and murdaugh says you can't have. that is very self-aggrandizing for rupert, blowing off the president, say you can't have a reset. but fox is 100 percent in trump's corner, and if it's not now, it will be by the election. -- >> do you feel like, i mean, it's staggering that there is no semblance of contrition on the part of fox in terms of what it has done here. in fact, if anything, it's doubling down on how things spread, the misinformation, the lies, and really being guilty of mendacity. >> i sometimes feel like the country is facing memory loss, suffering memory loss, or at least some folks, some subset of the country has forgotten what the years 2017 through 2020 were actually like. maybe it was too traumatic to be willing to remember. buried in some of those experiences. we look at these polls that show trump ahead of biden with more leadership skills, greater mental acuity. have we all forgotten about 2017? >> in part. >> some people have because it's convenient for the fox stars to pretend those scandals never happened. >> you made the point of the outside of our discussion that the lawsuits are not over for fox. >> far from it. >> -- we've got a huge tranche of information trying to information from the dominion lawsuit. there would've been more if the case went to trial. there was a smartmatic lawsuit, another voting system, that was filed before the dominion lawsuit and is for an even bigger dollar amount, i believe 2. 7 billion dollars. are we going to get a sort of x-ray into fox news in the course of the smartmatic lawsuit? >> that case is taking longer, the outcome may be the same. there are more depositions happening. there will be more discovery. more documents published. maybe there will be a settlement. i would bank on a settlement. but maybe for more than 800 million that dominion is able to obtain. smartmatic was able to say it was a bigger company, it's ever greater damages. fox says -- is way inflated, but the fights going to happen. the point here is that the courts are where a big lie accountability is happening. the trump trials who cover every day, the same time those are happening we are having a terror parallel civil litigation against fox, news max, rudy giuliani. i was interviewing the dominion lawyers again this week. they are so busy with all these other cases, you would think they'd be off on vacation after making $800 million for the client. no, they have a lot of other cases still pending. but there in washington. you know it's taking so long? there are so many january six cases still in the washington courts. there are so many rioters still being held accountable. >> the handiwork of fox news. is it going to change under laughlin murder murdaugh? or will profits still rain supreme? >> profits reign supreme. parts of the business are shrinking. it's harder business to own that it was two years ago. they're under more pressure than they were when rupert was on top. >> o'brien, it's a disturbing read, but an essential read. >> is on a hopeful note. people know the truth. actually, that's hopeful. >> it is great utility in having exhausting reporting on those emails in one place in such -- >> some people are still capable of shame, actually. >> some, not all of them, but some of them. brian stelter, thank you my friend. because network of lies, the epic saga fox news, known trump, and the battle for american democracy. brian, thank you. we're going to have one more story for you tonight. biden's deepening frustration with prime minister netanyahu. biden's deputy national security adviser ben rhodes joins me on that, up next. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. oh. 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problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. >> today the white house announced that israel has agreed to pause its military operations inside gaza every day for four hours. the pauses could allow for more humanitarian aid into gaza and could also be used in efforts to release the more than 200 hostages currently being held by hamas. as the israeli military moves deeper into gaza city, the health ministry there says israeli airstrikes have killed more than 10,000 people, and injured more than 25,000. president biden made it clear today that he does not support a cease-fire inside gaza, but is pushing for a longer humanitarian pause. joining me now is ben rhodes, former deputy national security adviser under president obama. ben, an queue for being here. i just wonder what you think of a four-hour pause and it's sufficiency. >> it will marginally help more humanitarian assistance in. the trickle that has been getting in is only a fraction of what got into gaza in terms of tracks before the conflict on a regular day and obviously the humanitarian needs are much greater. in talking to people in various governments, my understanding is a lot of the proposals called for four, five-day pause so that you could get a significant and massive amount of humanitarian assistance in so you get wounded people out into egypt and so you could negotiate some additional hostage releases. so this is a compromise and it's a very netanyahu move to not really grant the u.s. president what he is recommending but to do something that is just enough to make somewhat of a difference but is not, probably, enough to allow for a lot of humanitarian aid to get in for those hostage negotiations to take place. >> you talk about the strange dance between netanyahu and biden on all of this, and there are multiple reports this week that biden officials are anonymously expressing frustration with israel, and one wonders why biden officials are still anonymously expressing frustration with israel. can you elaborate on, that is someone who has spent time inside the circle. >> yeah. there are a couple of different ways that you can approach prime minister netanyahu, a right-wing figure who has been willing to buck american presidents, previously, democratic presidents in the past. barack obama was more willing to publicly disagree and to send a message to the world that he might disagree with netanyahu on certain issues. joe biden's view has been, i want to fully embrace prime minister netanyahu in public and voiced disagreement in private, and that might give me more leverage there for to effect his behavior and his actions. we have seen that approach on display, with president biden going over israel in literally hugging prime minister netanyahu. we are hearing on in the background of the frustration that despite all that full embrace of israel, you still have a reluctance from bibi netanyahu to take on board serious u.s. concerns about humanitarian separations in gaza, about the global reaction to the scale of humanitarian suffering that we're seeing and civilian casualties were saying, and what tony blinken is saying on this trip to the mayor to the arab world, which is that they need to see a more concerted effort to help the people of gaza. i don't see that kind of frustration expressed on background, u.s. media, reaches the global audience, there's probably the concern of the biden white house. and so the question is, you're starting to see some public differentiation. even netanyahu say he wants to essentially de facto occupation of gaza, and joe biden says he doesn't leave as a good idea. and blinken has said he wants to see the palestinian authority in charge of gaza as well as the west bank. increasing the u.s. is going to support israel. joe biden is going to support israel. he's made that very clear. but there are these differences that are becoming more apparent by the day. >> could you foresee an actual break in public criticism of israel on the part of this administration at any point? >> i think knowing president biden, he's going to have israel's back and that's his default position. i do think on some of these specific issues, like the provision of humanitarian assistance into gaza, like whether it's worth exploring negotiations to secure the release of hostages, and particularly, alex, on the back end of this, the u.s. does not want to see reoccupation of gaza by israel. they don't want to see a mass displacement of people out of gaza. they would like to see the palestinian authority take control of gaza, and they like to see some effort to have the palestinian state. keep in mind this israeli government, led by the biden yahoo, with a far-right coalition, does not support the creation of a palestinian state. so what difference is going to be the biggest is on what is the ultimate objective of this military operation. yes, israel wants to destroy hamas, but what happens to million people in gaza who can't leave and then who governs gaza on the back end of that? i think that's where the biggest difference is going to eventually become increasingly clear. >> thank you for your insight, ben rhodes. that's our show for tonight. now it's time for the last word, with lawrence o'donnell. good evening,. lawrence >> i noticed in your discussion with brian about his book about fox, that, i think every time, or almost every time, that he refers to it as fox, which is what i do, and i never say that second word, because that second word is the first lie that network told, is that second word in its name. it has n