Transcripts For MSNBCW Chris 20240702

it, ranting against a judge, a scene described as completely out of control, and it didn't stop inside the courtroom because just minutes ago, he posted about the judge on truth social. what's going on there? well, the judge already admonishing the former president multiple times for rambling, not answering questions, and using the court as a political rally. will he take action before the day is over? plus, with trump facing multiple other trials, what could today's spectacle mean for those other cases, we'll tell you who was in the courtroom today taking notes. but we begin outside that courthouse with nbc's vaughn hillyard. it was a volatile morning. trump isn't waiting to get back on the stand. he's posting on social media. tell us the general mood around the courthouse. >> reporter: donald trump, the days he has been at the courthouse hearing the testimony of others, usually at lunch break he walks out and speaks to the camera for several minutes commenting on the case at large as well as the direct testimony of the witnesses he heard from that particular day. this lunch break it was a little bit different, chris, after he testified for two and a half hours himself. take a look as he left the courtroom. >> reporter: mr. trump, how is it going in there? >> reporter: of course, for donald trump, he is somebody who is far from silent inside. he was admonished multiple times by judge engoron, here in lower manhattan for giving long winded, quasi tangential answers and not answering direct questions from the new york prosecutor asking him the questions here. in the last few minutes during the lunch break, donald trump posting on his truth social account a picture of the judge in this case with a quote here that says in part, quote, no, i'm not here to hear what president trump has to say. now, this is for donald trump, but direct attack on when he calls an unfair trial and a biassed judge overseeing this case. i think it's important context to note that after the judge said this direct quote referenced by donald trump, he said that what he wants to hear today is donald trump answering the questions addressed to him. i think that's important content. i asked salina haba during the break whether she under her client, donald trump, to deliver more concise answers, knowing the judge is going to deliver the financial penalties against trump and his female business and she told me, no, she did not sign on to be his lawyer to simply go and limit his free speech capabilities, and his ability to defend himself as he sees fit on this witness stand today. chris. >> vaughn hillyard, stay with us. i want to bring in former federal prosecuto and msnbc legal analyst, and former prosecutor. posting on truth social about the judge after all the tension this morning, yelling, admonitions, might not be a recommending strategy, but legally, does it cross any line that the judge has set in your mind? >> the judge made it clear even in the courtroom today that he's going to let trump criticize him personally. and i think that's a wise move for the judge to make. i think as you just alluded to, chris, this is not a legal strategy. when you have a bench trial there's no jury here. when the judge is deciding your fate, you gain nothing legally by throwing tomatoes at the judge, so to speak. what he's doing here is trying to distract all of us from the evidence in this case, distract us from the evidence that leld led the judge to conclude there's fraud here. he's trying to whip up anger against the judge and claim the process is flawed or biassed. that's a political strategy or a spin strategy, not a legal strategy. i think that's important for our viewers to keep in mind. >> charles, i want to recap some of the many admonishments from the judge. answer the question, irrelevant. control your client. this is not a political rally. and asking the prosecutor if he wanted the witness to ramble on. again, i think we've been very consistent with all of our great legal minds across the board here who have said this is not a legal strategy. it doesn't help him, but it does it hurt him, charles? >> well, chris, i think the question becomes in what venue you have the court of public opinion and the political lens through which this could be examined, and you have the actual legal lens. let's be clear and understand, i agree with everything renato said. and trump is under no obligation to make this easy for anyone, be that the prosecutor or the judge, and he's going to do his part to make it more difficult going forward. he has no legal options in terms of liability because that was decided on summary judgment. at this point, it's push until something happens. maybe you can get the judge to do something emotional that allows you to do something on appeal. maybe you can continue to try to control the narrative outside the court with your comments that allows you to build on political capital. in terms of whether it hurts him, it matters which lens you're witnessing this through, donald trump the candidate running for the white house or donald trump the businessman, trying to say what he has left in terms of his business dealings in the state of new york. >> we're ten minutes away from when this is scheduled to get going again. we have heard multiple times the judge say trump is not being brief in his answers. is it possible just to use this as a strategy to kind of run out the clock? because this is firmly just a one-day questioning of the former president, right? >> i don't really think that's what he's doing here. i wish that i could try to give you some fancy strategy that this is part of. i don't think it helps him at all, for him to be rambling on and on. and if he was my witness, and my client, and i was actually trying to pursue a legal strategy, i would try to have some real strict control on him and have him walk a tight rope because he's really taking a very significant risk just by taking the stand here. remember, he took the fifth hundreds of times in his deposition in this case, so i think the original strategy here from a legal perspective was just damage control, mitigating their losses here. he, through his own ego, while the judge is annoyed, if i was on the ag's team, the side of the attorney general i would actually be happy with the witness here just rambling on and on and essentially burying himself with the testimony that is often not careful or inaccurate or obviously false. >> a lot of people, charles, would have predicted this from donald trump. maybe prosecutors did as well. what were they trying, and are they going to continue to try this afternoon to get from donald trump that advances their case? because one of the things that a lot of folks said is, look, this is a case that will rely heavily on documentation that many of the most important things that have allowed the judge to even make his ruling thus far are what's on paper, right, or what's in evidence. so what role does donald trump play in this trial. what's important for prosecutors today? >> well, chris, in an ideal world, what you want to do as a prosecutor in a case like this, you want to show donald trump as many documents that have his name and signature on them and make the connection to the fact that he, at some point, signed for these documents or certified the truth and veracity of its contents. he's not likely going to do that. you have to sort of switch your strategy and basically take away any type of explanation that donald trump will offer as to the plausibility, even though his name is on these documents, and his name is at the top of the letter ahead that somehow he could not have known or should not have known that the level of fraud determined or existed, by the judge took place. when you have a witness like donald trump who's not going to give you the simple answer of saying, yes, that's my signature on those documents, you have to try to take away any plausible excuse that he's going to offer in front of the judge as to why somehow his name being as high on that letter head as it is, he should not be held liable or the penalty in this case should not be as high as the attorney general's office is asking. >> is there an excuse for that? all of us have signed a document, you go into a doctor's office or decide you're going to go sky diving, they're going to tell you, if you die, it's not our fatal potentially. but in a case like this, where he is the guy on the letterhead, where he is someone who on the stand today has said he knows this stuff, right. he's the smartest, the best at these kinds of things, is there a legitimate legal excuse for saying, i really didn't know what i was signing? >> well, as somebody who has tried a lot of fraud cases, a very common defense strategy is essentially saying, i'm a very busy businessman, i get lots of documents placed in front of me. i don't remember what was on page 27, that sort of thing. the problem for donald trump, as you point out, chris, here's a guy who never wants to say he's not in control, that he's not in charge. that sort of thing. that's one problem here for him. i mean, he actually has a bit of a built-in defense for a period of time here because he could say, look, this is all in a trust. my sons were running it, not me. but i don't really think he stuck to that today, and that's why i say there's not a lot of legal strategy here. the reality for trump is, he was trying to walk a bit of a tight rope by blaming others, saying he wasn't really involved. saying he wasn't really on top of things. we know that's not what donald trump was ever going to say and that's not what he said ultimately today. >> you know we're getting close to them reconvening, because attorney general letitia james has resumed her position in the front row seat inside that courtroom. at one point earlier today, charles, trump was asked about claiming that his new york apartment was triple the size it is, and he said something about having access to the roof, and when you add the roof in, you're not that far off. is that an explanation as we see donald trump walking in, giving the thumbs up, heading back into the courtroom where they expect to resume in just a few minutes. is that an explanation that he gave earlier today? >> listen, chris, i learned in law school that the law is what is boldly asserted and plausibly maintained. the truth is i don't believe that this judge is going to buy that that is plausibly maintaining the overestimation of the square footage of that apartment, i think that, again, if you look at the summary judgment motion in particular, the judge is very clear as to what he believes would be a somewhat reasonable misevaluation or extrapolation on the size of an apartment. it's just been exploited to such a large degree, that i don't necessarily think that adding on the square footage of the rooftop as a new explanation by donald trump on the stand amidst a trial is going to fly in terms of what the apartment has in terms of square footage. >> all the key players are inside the courtroom. court is scheduled to resume in less than three minutes. charles coleman, thank you, renato mariotti, stay with me. new reporting about what former president trump is planning to do with the doj if he gets reelected. we're back in 60 seconds. we're back in 60 seconds . in just the last couple of minutes we watched as donald trump returned to the courtroom as what has been described as an incredibly tense day in his civil fraud trial. when asked by prosecutors whether he was involved in the preparation of key financial documents in 2021, trump's answer, no. i was dealing with china, russia and keeping our country safe. the new york attorney general's lead lawyer then reminded him he was not president in 2021. former federal prosecutor, renato mariotti, also elise jordan t former aide to the george w. bush white house and state department. renato, what do you make of that moment where the president didn't seem to know -- the former president didn't remember he was former president in 2021. donald trump is undisciplined. he's all over the place. we talked in the last segment about some of his colorful answers. i think he's just winging it up there, and that's a dangerous spot if you're a lawyer. i have to say if that was my client on the witness stand, answering whatever came to the top of his head, making false statements under oath, i would be cringing. of course they're all smiles at the trump table because i don't think they're even trying to practice law there. they're basically just props in what can best be described as sort of a political/disinformation exercise here today to try to use our court system to try to fool and distract the public from his own misdeeds. >> elise, we hear all the time criticism about president biden confusing dates and things from his political career. but then you have donald trump who isn't much younger and seems to have had a series of these events recently, just not on the stand. >> chris, donald trump has been saying absolutely crazy things for so long, things that are just rooted in complete nonsense. i mean, do you remember bleach for covid cure? things that are just so insane that he really does get a pass when he has an actual misstep, and if it is something that's with ageing. by being so crazy he can't be pinned down, he actually tends to benefit because he doesn't get taken seriously when he is being serious, and people don't really deduct points from him. >> sorry. for a minute, i lost my ability to hear what was going on because i was being informed that donald trump has taken the witness stand. once again, the trial has been called back to order. the prosecution has begun once again to ask questions of donald trump. just reminding folks that we are getting in realtime this kind of reporting from our folks that are in the courtroom. in the meantime, renato, i want to ask you as the trial moves forward about chilling new reporting from the "washington post" describing what plans to do if voters elect him president again in 2024. and that is veryuch seek revenge. here's wt the post writes, in private, trump has tolddvisers and friends that he wants the justice department to investigate one-time officials and allies who have become critical of his time in office. is that constitutional? >> no, it's not. i have to say, just reading that just angers me as somebody who cares so deeply about the rule of law in this country, cares deeply about the administration of justice. and i'll tell you, if that does happen, if he is reelected, i'll be there on the front lines defending those people in court, and i just have to believe that judges and juries in this country are not going to go along with the abuse of the justice department. not just people like myself there for a decade, but there are people who devoted their entire lives to building up the justice department, and we were always taught that you have to use that power, the great power that prosecutors have with great care, and you actually have to, at times not bring charges even when you have evidence. abusing that power for political purposes, it is absolutely antithetical to what this country is about, and ultimately, not only unconstitutional but against the law and the sort of thing that to me, under mines, really the most important protection we have which is the protection that we have in our court system to ensure that our rights are defended, even if you have a run away presidency or a run away congress. >> yeah, elise, you worked in a white house, and obviously the staff there works very closely on all kinds of issues. but there is a very clear line with doj. what did you make of what you saw "the washington post" reporting and the idea that essentially they could be weaponized, they could weaponize the power of the presidency against enemies. >> chris, it's what trump tried to do when he actually had the presidency. he didn't understand the separation between law enforcement agencies and the doj and if they were his personal attorneys, and now you see looking at a potential second term, the stakes are higher and how far donald trump would go to actually punish his enemies, and it was a pet petrifying article surprising, surprising in that donald trump is a very vengeful man, and he focuses on revenge, and he is wounded by the people who were his allies and left him. he is vowing to go after them first, and i thought that former chief of staff john kelly had a really telling book, saying that, you know, there were some people in the first administration who weren't sycophants, and now those people aren't going to go in next time, and it's just going to be people who actually execute the orders no matter how unconstitutional. >> i want to bring in nbc's vaughn hillyard, again, he is outside the courthouse, and so the trial is back underway. we understand the prosecution has resumed questioning in these early minutes. what's been going on inside this room? >> right, this is going to be a big two and a half hours ahead, chris. this is the only day that donald trump will be taking the stand, and answering questions from the new york attorney general's prosecutor here. there is a lot for the prosecution to fit into just these few hours, and that is where you saw donald trump face a condemnation and admonishment with the judge, this morning, for presenting the new york attorney general prosecutor. just in the last few minutes, there is back and forth over deutsche bank loans, and donald trump being asked specifically in one situation whether a signature was, in fact, his. he responded yes. we are going to continue to read sort of the blow by blow in the minutes and hours ahead, chris. i think one important note here that i was waiting to see was whether the gag order that has been placed on donald trump and his attorneys to prevent them from speaking about staff of the court was going to potentially be expanded. two weeks ago when that initial gag order was misplaced, it was delivered by the judge just following a lunch break. we did not get that here. donald trump made repeated attacks against the attorney general letitia james, as well as the drug directly. one of the two lawyers representing him here inside the courtroom came and spoke from the courtroom steps in which she blasted the judge and james, but i asked her specifically about the judge's suggestion that he would make negative inferences from donald trump's long-winded, quasi tangential answers, instead of concise answers, and she told me when i asked her whether she was urging her client, donald trump, to keep his answers concise, knowing the judge in this case will determine whether the trump organization can exist in new york, and whether they will have to pay the $250 million fine. i asked whether she was urging her client, donald trump, during the lunch break to keep his answers concise this afternoon, and she defiantly told me, no, she would not have signed on to be donald trump's lawyer just to turn around and go and limit his free speech right and his ability to defend himself how he sees fit. those were the words of donald trump's lawyers. the question here in the next two and a half hours that i'm looking for, chris, is the extent to which donald trump tries to filibuster the questions from the new york attorney general's office and whether the judge tries to step in more fiercely than he did this morning. >> this has been one of the key questions throughout this, and one of the arguments that trump has made that this is a free speech, but when you're on the stand, can you say anything you want to say? >> no, of course not, and i mean, making that statement shows she doesn't know much about the first amendment or she's being disingenuous. good lawyers are trying to do that more rather than less. that really has nothing to do with the first amendment. in this case, the judge is the decider. he's ultimately, essentially the jury if you want to think of it that way in a bench trial. he's the one that makes the decision. if the judge doesn't want to make long winded rambling answers that don't answer the question, any good lawyer is going to try to get their client to limit his answers. the reality is, of course, trump is in control here, not his lawyers. they aren't really practicing law. they're props, not lawyers in this scenario. of course they're just sort of enabling him. i think the judge is wise. just let trump, you know, ramble on. you could think of it if one of your kids disobeys a rule at home, they can talk whatever they want, but you're the bottom line. the judge is the bottom line, and you're wise to not feed into an argument that he's gagging trump, let trump hang himself in this trial, and ultimately rule against trump and his businesses, as i think is obviously going to be the case at the end of this trial. >> renato, thank you so much. i want to bring back former u.s. attorney and senior fbi official and current msnbc contributor, chuck rosenberg. we have talked about the mood in the courtroom, the fact that letitia james is sitting in the front row. one of donald trump's attorneys in the separate hush money case being brought, of course, by the manhattan d.a. could be heard laughing in the second row of the courtroom today as she observed and took notes. first of all, is there something that she could gain by watching this trial? something she could learn by watching donald trump in this? what do you make of the fact that she found it amusing? >> not much of that, chris. laughing in a courtroom is seldom prompt, certainly not from lawyers in the gallery, so what could she learn, what could she gain? theoretically, and i think it's only theoretical, if any lawyer who defending mr. trump in a criminal case is entertaining the idea of putting him on the stand in his own defense, which i think would be ill-advised and generally speaking is extraordinarily rare, they may want to watch and see how he does on the stand. they may also be there in case while he's answering questions he begins to, you know, sort of stray into uncharted and dangerous territory, perhaps a place where he would normally invoke a fifth amendment privilege. his other lawyer can't stand up and object, but maybe she could pass a note to the team representing him here. so there's a couple of good reasons for a lawyer to watch a client who's testifying in one case, who might perhaps testify in another. but laughing out loud, i think that's unprofessional, and inappropriate. >> just her being there does reinforce, this isn't the only case that he is facing, you know these cases well. what is the potential impact on these other trials, do you think that other lawyers from other cases are watching this? i don't know if it's even so much to see if -- you know, how donald trump performs on the witness stand because they can't watch it in the way that lawyer who is there, but, you know, two read the transcript, could there be any information here that would be helpful to them or is this just so separate as a real estate civil trial? >> i mean, could there be information that would be helpful. again, theoretically, but what mr. trump seems to be doing today is ranting, and that doesn't seem to be prohibitive in this case, or frankly, in any other case. but, look, prosecutors are going to listen to what he says generally, whether it's here or on the campaign trail, in print or on a podcast. if a defendant is talking, which is generally against the advice of your attorney. i mean, most attorneys don't like having criminal defendants talk out loud about much of anything. prosecutors will listen. could he say something here that would help a prosecutor in another case, it's unlikely? could he say something somewhere at some point in time that will help a prosecutor in another case? that seems much more likely, chris. so sure, >> chuck rosenberg, vaughn hillyard, elise jordan, if you could stay with me. still to come in our trial coverage, inside the trump organization, a former company executive who spent 18 years working there reacts to her old boss's testimony. that's ahead. but first, new and significant developments in the israel-hamas war as the idf hits hundreds of targets overnight, essentially splitting the gaza strip in half. we've got a live report from tel aviv coming up. i'm 65. and really smart later i'm 70-ish. consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. with this type of plan, you'll know upfront about how much your care costs. which makes planning your financial future easier. so call unitedhealthcare today to learn more about the only plans of their kind with the aarp name. and set yourself and your future self up with an aarp medicare supplement plan from unitedhealthcare. hi. my name is kim and i am 41 years old. i've been given the opportunity to work from home, so that means lots of video calls. i see myself more and i definitely see those deeper lines. i'm still kim and i got botox® cosmetic. i wanted to keep the expressions that i would normally have, you know, you're on camera and the only person they can look at is you. i was really happy with the results. i look like me just with fewer lines. botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crow's feet, and forehead lines look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life-threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. see for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ is it possible my network could take my business ♪♪ to the next level? it is with comcast business. powering all your devices with gig-speed wifi. and you get fast downloads and uploads. pick it up! pick it up! oh we got this! because it's powered by the next generation 10g network. more speed for your business? it's not just possible. it's happening. get started for $59.99 a month for 12 months. plus, ask how to get an $800 prepaid card with a qualifying internet bundle. comcast business, powering possibilities. has struck an additional 450 targets in gaza in just the last day. we want to warn you, the video we're going to show you is difficult to watch. the palestinian health ministry reports 10,000 people have been killed in air strikes since the war started. one of the latest strikes hitting this residential building in the southern region where israeli military is encouraging people to go for refuge. ap reporters on the ground say they saw at least two people killed and children like this one pulled from the rubble, injured and covered in dust. one woman crying on the street, asking anyone walking past her where is my mother. erin mclaughlin is reporting live from the ground in tel aviv, israel. the israeli military says it has now split gaza in two, and it's telling people to travel from the north to the south on foot. what does the reality of that route look like, especially when we're getting some of these pictures in from the south that are so devastating? >> reporter: well, chris, the israeli military says it has been warning palestinian civilians to make this journey from the north to the south to evacuate for weeks now. it says it has distributed a million pamphlets, made phone calls, sent sms messages to do that. now, today announcing that it's setting up a buffer zone between the north and the south. and for the third day in a row, having set up a humanitarian corridor, a window of time, about four hours long, four palestinians to be able to walk on foot from the north to the south. they have been walking, i'm told, by the teams on the ground because the roads have been destroyed in the violence. now, while the israeli military has released aerial footage showing palestinians walking, what they say are palestinians walking along this route, our teams on the ground tell us that many more, many thousands are choosing to stay in the north, and they're choosing to stay in the north for a variety of reasons, one being they are concerned that that route, that four-hour window is not secure, will not have been secured by the israeli military on saturday when the israeli military tried to open up that humanitarian corridor. the israeli military says that hamas attacked the corridor, so that is a concern for palestinians. they're also concerned that once they evacuate from the north that the israeli military will prevent them from being able to return to their homes. another key concern, according to our team on the ground, the fact that israeli strikes are continuing to happen both in the north and the south. in fact, over the weekend, there was what appeared to be an israeli air strike according to the palestinian health ministry. in a refugee camp to the south of the wadi gaza, the waterway demarking the north from the south. in that apparent assault, 47 palestinian civilians died, according to the palestinian health authority. we have been unable to verify that death toll. our team on the ground went and saw the devastation, buildings completely pancaked. palestinians trying to work through the rubble to recover more dead bodies, and it's scenes like that preventing more palestinians from heeding the warnings from the israeli military moving from the north to the south, and, again, in the north, that is where the israeli military says most of the fighting will be concentrated going forward. chris. >> erin mclaughlin, thank you for from this tel aviv. a new survey out of michigan shows the president's support is plummeting among muslim and arab voters. that critical demographic over whelming in 2020. rashida tlaib faces blow back. sahil kapur is live from the hill. tell us about this controversy and how this is playing out in the party. >> reporter: this causes real anguish and division in the democratic party and escalated a few days ago when congresswoman rashida tlaib tweeted a video that was heavily critical of israel, for president biden of his strong support of israel and included activists chanting the slogan, quote, from the river to the sea. this immediately was criticized by jewish american groups as an anti-semitic slogan because it has been used by pro palestinian activists and extremist groups who want a state of palestine from the jordan river to the mediterranean sea, which taken literally would erase the state of israel. congresswoman talib said it's simply an aspirational call for freedom, human rights, not death, destruction and hate. that's not an explanation going over well with democrats who want an apology and retraction. among them is congresswoman elissa slotkin michigan, currently runo beenator. she says in a series of tweets, miigan's congressional er of delegation, i have reached out to arab and muslim constituents feeling fear and anger right now. i have tri to reflect that empathy. i ask the same of representative rashida. from the river to the s is division and violence, counter prodtive to peace. none of us amplifyanguage that inflames a tense situation and makes it harder for our communities to find common ground. the congresswoman should apologize and retract the phrase no matter its origin. there's also dana ness the attorney general of the state of michigan also put out a tweet saying, rashida tlaib, i have supported and defended you countless times, even when you have said the nsible, because i believed your heart was in the right place. this is hurtful to so many, please retract this cruel and hateful remark. and of course this is happening in michigan. the quintessential swing state. president biden won this by less than 150,000 votes or about 150,000 votes last time around. there are 240,000 muslims in that state, and they are not happy with the president's handling of this crisis, chris. >> sahil kapur, thank you for that update. right now, former president trump is back on the witness stand. i'll talk with someone who spent 18 years working for him next. 18 years working for him next. 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yeah. the more we understand you, the better we can help you. that's what u.s. bank is for. huge relief. yeah... ♪ former president donald trump is back on the stand there you see the courthouse in new york city. according to our producer in the courtroom, the questioning is going a bit more smoothly this afternoon after a series of highly volatile moments earlier in the day, including while talking about the valuations of trump properties. donald trump told the court he thinks that mar-a-lago, doral, 40 wall street all were actually underestimated, but he did admit that the estimate for his manhattan apartment and trump tower was too high. i want to bring in someone who led the construction on trump tower, former executive vice president of the trump organization barbara res. it's good to see you, barbara. >> hi, how are you? >> good. is it possible to think that donald trump's apartment is 30,000 square feet and not 10,000 square feet? >> i don't think the building's big enough for that to be 30,000 square feet, no. it's nothing like that when i built it. and i don't think it's changed. >> so when you hear things from him on the stand, including the admission today, he thought that property was overvalued when he looked at it, and yet the statement that went in was over value. tell us what your thought is as you know the way that this is all playing out, which is that the judge has already said fraud was committed. >> well, i'm not sure what you mean by over valued. what was he saying was over valued? >> he admitted the statement they made about the price tag could potentially be more than it was worth. on most of the properties, he said, including mar-a-lago, they were under valued, and he said one of the things that was key is that you have to add in the value of the trump name. >> i think that anyone doing a valuation, any appraisal, if they thought it was real that the trump name gave value to the property, they would have employed it. in new york city there was trump apartments and the people that lived in the apartments had the signs removed. they didn't want the trump name, and whether the trump name has any value here is questionable. probably has value overseas, maybe, in saudi arabia or russia or something like that, but as far as over valuing, i think i read something that he said, well, may have been overvalued at the time that the numbers were put on the papers, but now with today's values, that was, you know, under valued at the time. he'll say anything to try to make a ridiculous point, someone will believe him, that's what he's doing. >> our producer in court said at one point, the former president had quote, no restraint, he absolutely lost control and let loose. a lot of the confrontation was directed toward the judge who of course will decide his company's fate. you've said in the past that he absolutely believed he was above the law. do you think that's what we're seeing here? does it surprise you at all that donald trump would be so confrontational toward the person who could decide the future of his company in new york state? >> no, it doesn't surprise me. i'm sure his attorneys warned him, where attorneys have said, don't do this and don't do that, and trump just ignored it. i'm sure when he went back in he was a little calmer. i don't know how long that will last. he believes he has the right to do anything. he thinks if he says something, he all of a sudden believes it, and will keep saying it, trying to make other people believe it. that's his basis. even if he wasn't convinced of that, he needs to keep saying it because his people are listening. that's what it's all about holding on to the people that, you know, supposedly are following him, which he claims is more than half the population. >> you have spent more time around donald trump the businessman than most people. what would it mean to him if he were not able to operate his business the way it's operated now, if he were not able to run the trump business out of new york ever again? >> you know, initially i think -- i thought, and i still think he would not be happy about that, he would be very unhappy about it, but, you know, he moved to florida, he was living in trump tower, and he moved to florida. the business he does now, mostly licensing, really doesn't need a new york presence. and i think that if he were to have to leave new york, he would spin it so that he made that decision, you know, the rules in new york are too tough or blah blah blah, but if he does any building in the future, it will probably be out of the country. so i don't know that the, you know, needing a new york office is so important. it's a terrible blow to him that that's what moves his business. >> barbara res, it's great to have you on the program. thank you so much for taking the time. appreciate it. >> my pleasure. we're hours away from a pivotal election day in america, and while off year political elections typically don't get much attention, certainly just a fraction of a presidential year, there are some key races and issues on the ballot that could be critical indicators of what's to come in 2024. nbc's shaq brewster has a preview. >> key statewide elections across the country tuesday offering important indicators for 2024 with both parties testing campaign messages. increased early voting in ohio, voters deciding on marijuana legalization, and whether ohio will become the latest conservative state to enshrine abortion rights in its constitution. >> i don't think it's anybody's business but the families to make their own reproductive choices. >> this amendment goes much much too far. >> reporter: in virginia. >> it's not about politics, it's about results. >> reporter: governor glenn youngkin's political power and push for a 15-week abortion ban are on the line. republicans hitting president biden, crime and education. democrats messaging on threats to abortion access. >> to pass a new ban on abortion isn't just radical, it's dangerous. >> reporter: competitor races for governor in two states where donald trump won big in 2020, mississippi might get its first gubernatorial runoff as democrat brandon presley, a second cousin of the rock icon is giving republican incumbent governor, tate reeves a face. calling kentucky's race a potential 2024 bellwether. since the turn of the century, the party that has won the governor's mansion has gone on to win the presidency the following year. cornering daniel cameron using trump's endorsement and close ties to mitch mcconnell to fight governor andy beshear's reelection. >> explain why this is such a battle for you. >> we feel very excited. we need new leadership in this state, and i agree that andy beshears has been a disaster. >> reporter: cannot wave a party's unpopular leader. do you feel there are national head winds when being connected to joe biden. >> this race isn't about who's in the white house. it's about what's going on in the houses across kentucky. >> reporter: and, chris, it's important to note those are the races we will be watching at a national level, there are elections in 30 states across the country, mayor, school board, and other local officials. it's an important reminder that there are important races, even ones we're not watching at this higher level. chris. >> shaquille brewster, thank you so much for that. i want to take a look at virginia where all 140 seats in the state legislature are up for grabs. the democratic legislative campaign committee has invested $2 million in tomorrow's elections with record numbers for voter outreach, including making 2 million phone calls and more than a million door knocks. heather williams, democratic legislative interim president. good to see you. why so much attention in virginia, what's at stake and what do you think it might tell us, the results of 2024. >> i'm excited to be here to talk about these really important races. to zoom out, right, what's happening in the states is so so important. state election, and ultimately our state houses are the races and the policies that affect us the most are decided. in virginia tomorrow, as you said, we've got all of these elections and at stake is whether or not virginians on wednesday, expect an abortion ban in the state. the stakes are so incredibly high, and virginians understand where we are headed. they are ready to go to the polls. they are ready to go vote. and if you're a virginia listener, and you have not made a plan to vote and you are a democrat, like, please, please, connect with your friend and family and yourself to get out there. the stakes are incredibly high. >> i think a lot of people who never paid attention before, frankly, have learned through things like abortion, gay rights, guns, the importance of state legislatures, right? republicans in virginia led by governor glenn youngkin have been test driving an abortion ban which includes exceptions for rape, incest, and the life of the mother. the governor is trying to combat the issue of republicans being extreme on the issue. i know you have had a lot of people talking to folks. how important is this issue? what are they telling you? >> abortion remains an incredibly important issue in these elections. you know, democrats in the states had a really historic election in last year's midterms, building new trifectas, flipping majorities, and now this year, we have already seen momentum through a number of special election wins, and over performance by democrats in these seats. so while we head into tomorrow's election, virginians totally understand what's at stake. we know that there will be an abortion ban. the governor has been crystal clear about that. we also know that what's at stake is whether or not virginia becomes the next florida, right. these issues are incredibly important, and we know that at stake is not just the abortion ban but also, you know, a virginian's ability to love who they want to love, to have their vote counted, to make sure they're save in schools and don't have to fear being shot while they are there. they're able to read the books they want to read. there is so much at stake under this sort of umbrella of freedoms and virginians are ready to vote. >> heather williams, it's good to have you on the program. thank you so much. >> thank you. that's going to do it for us this hour. make sure to join us for "chris jansing reports" every weekday from 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. our coverage continues with "katy tur reports" right after this short break. after this short break tyrvaya. it's not another drop. it's the first and only nasal spray for dry eye. tyrvaya treats the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease fast by helping your body produce its own real tears. common side effects include sneezing, cough, and throat and nose irritation. relying only on drops? 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well... we borrowed. we borrowed the internet. but that was before viasat came out with all their new plans. yup. lots of internet now. plenty for everyone. learn more about our plans at viasat.com ♪♪ with fastsigns, brew signature flavor into every sip and sign. ♪♪ fastsigns. make your statement. did you know most dish soaps don't remove all the grease, even with scrubbing? whaaat? i just cleaned those. try dawn platinum. it removes 99% of grease and food residue. that's why dawn is trusted to save wildlife affected by oil. dawn platinum cleans to the squeak. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. good to be with you, i'm katy tur. we may not be able to see or hear donald trump on the stand in new york today, but it's easy to imagine what he sounds like because from our reporting

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