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[ cheers ] yeah! woho! running up and down that field looks tough. it's a pitch. get way more into what you're into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. thanks to a home for joining me at this. our today the biden campaign released a memo outlining what they see as the state of the 2024 race so far. the big takeaway from that memo is that biden's campaign believes this will be a very close general election. now the memo only mentions the memo mentions donald trump by name only twice, and it makes a point of saying that the biden campaign is prepared no matter who emerges as the republican nominee. but it is clear that this campaign memo is about beating donald trump. maga is mentioned 15 times in it. the plan, as it is laid out here, focuses on drawing a contrast between biden and trump and between biden and maga extremism. we saw a little bit of that contrast in action today as president biden visited lewiston, maine. biden spoke in front of the just-in-time bowling alley, one of the two sites of the two of the horrific massacres last week that left 15 dead and -- injured. >> i know consensus is not only possible. it's about common sense, reasonable, responsible measures to protect our children, our families, and our communities. because regardless of our politics, this is about protecting our freedom to go to a bowling alley, a restaurant, a school, a church, without being shot and killed. >> president biden's been calling on congress to pass a new assault weapons ban and universal background checks and to strengthen red flag laws, all things republicans oppose. but today biden's message was about asking how the nation might come together. what change could we all agree upon? that message, even just biden's posture in general, stands in stark contrast to the way in which former president trump responded to the shooting. on the night of the shooting, at 9:58 pm, trump posted a short message on social media calling the unfolding massacre a terrible situation. just three minutes later, at 10:01 pm, he had moved on. he had switched gears and instead congratulated the new far-right speaker of the house, mike johnson. in a few minutes after that, and 10:14 pm, where news outlets across the country were clearly reporting this as a mass casualty event and an active man hunt, donald trump posted this video, with the caption " fore", which shows trump hitting a golf ball that is then edited to make it look like the ball hits president biden over and over again. that is pretty much all we got from donald trump. not even a generic thoughts and prayers statement, just a video name of the trump hitting the president of the united states with a golf ball, repeatedly. so when it comes to the biden campaign strategy to try and show contrast between these two men, that should be fairly easy. and when it comes to the biden campaign's plan to show contrast between biden and the maga movement itself, that also should be relatively straightforward. for example, this week congressman ken buck, a member of the trump aligned far-right house freedom caucus, buck announced he would not seek reelection, citing his party's extreme election denialism as the reason that he is leaving elected office. >> too many republican leaders are lying to america, claiming that the 2020 election was stolen, describing january sixth as an unguided tour of the capital. >> one of the most conservative members of the house of is apparently not maga enough to remain in the republican conference. meanwhile this was former president trump kicking off a rally in houston, texas, yesterday night. if you don't recognize that mash-up of the pledge of allegiance andthe star-spangled banner, you are not to blame. it is a recording called justice for all, featuring the voice of trump himself and a choir made up of men who are in jail because of their involvement in the january 6th riot on the capitol. donald trump does not refer to those men as rioters or insurrectionists or even as just prisoners. he refers to them like this. >> well, thank you very much, and you know i call them the j-six hostages, not prisoners. i call them the hostages. >> he calls them the hostages. men who have been charged with crimes including assaulting a police officer with a crowbar and chemical spray and trying to break a window of the capitol building with a metal ax. to trump, those are hostages in the american justice system. hostages who trump has said he will consider pardoning if reelected. now trump is polling about 45 points higher on average than his closest competitor in the republican primary, and he is doing a lot of the biden campaign's work on his own. trying to draw sharp contrast between himself and the rest of his republican competitors. for instance, trump is planning to once again skip the third republican primary debate in miami, which is happening next week. instead, trump is planning to counterprogram the debate with a rally of his own, just ten miles from where the debate is being held. a biden campaign official said the news today that their campaign will also have a presence in florida next week. among other things they are planning to place billboards around trump's rally to counterprogram the counter-programming. so that is part of the biden strategy for 2024, a race the campaign itself predicts will be very close, and where however unbelievably donald trump is currently polling an average of half a point higher than president biden in a head -to-head matchup. joining me now is pennsylvania state representative malcolm kenyatta, a member of the biden 2024 campaign's national advisory board. he also chairs biden's advisory board on education, equity, excellence, and economic activity for black americans. thank you for joining me. >> good to see you. >> so let's talk about the strategy. first of all, i have to ask you, because you are in the state of pennsylvania. president biden has made eight trips to the state of pennsylvania this year. he won it, of course, by 80,000 votes. it was, i spent a lot of time there in the closing days of the election, and even after. tell me a little bit about how you think he is doing in that state and how tight you think it's going to be. >> pennsylvania, as i like to say, is the center of the political universe. you don't get to become president the united states without winning pennsylvania. president biden is gonna win pennsylvania again, i tell you that. and i'm happy to see him. i think any time he is out, whether it is talking to farmers about his administration's really focus on small business owners from the farm to the corner stores in my district in north philadelphia, whether he's talking about his investments in things like clean energy, whether he is standing up for our democracy. in philadelphia, where it was all born, he has a real story to tell, from pennsylvania to scranton to pittsburg toerie to johnstown and everywhere in between. so we're excited to have. >> you focus on two communities, won the white working class, and won the more urban black voter. both groups that biden is clearly very concerned about showing up for him in november. i want to talk a little bit about the manufacturing white working class. president biden, first american president to walk a picket line was striking uaw workers. that is something i would imagine that matters in a state like pennsylvania. there are many manufacturing jobs still in the state. union labor means something to the people of pennsylvania. how significant was that move on the part of president biden to voters in pennsylvania? >> you know, it is a big deal, but it is one example of a long line of ways in which this president hasn't just said he is the most pro-labor president, but has actually proved it. i was on the lehigh valley yesterday, walking the political the picket line myself, with the uaw workers who built the best mack trucks in the world. and what you hear over and over again, and what i tweeted out about my -- there, is workers are done being treated like crap. to have somebody in the white house who is not just showing up and talking to working people, showing up for a photo op, you see him with a lot of republicans, particularly those who run for senate. they all find the bubble vests fromthe bubble vest company i guess. and praise with president biden they know that it's real. that this is who he has always been. we called him scranton joe. that's what he was talking about. those workers that own not only feel left behind, which feels patronizing to, say who were left behind. they aren't anymore manufacturing. look at the jobs this president has created, from the chips act and on and on and on. you are seeing things built here in america, and one of those tech hubs we're also gonna see in pennsylvania, pennsylvania was also another regional states where folks who were gonna benefit from the investments from the infrastructure act also from the american rescue plan, time and time again pennsylvania has been a place where the president's agenda, you can see it on full display, and so it's no surprise that he continues to show up. >> sorry to interrupt, there's a broad belief that the managed to get through congress, the executive actions that he is taking that are directly benefiting americans. a great example of that, 76% of americans favor medicare, allowing medicare to negotiate prescription drug prices. that was something president biden shepherded through. but the same poll finds only 48% of americans approve of how biden is handling the issue. that's two on a number of different issues. why is it, how is this a race into the average of paul's donald trump is ahead of joe biden right now? >> i think that there is an intentional effort. your show not included, of folks to minimize president biden's accomplish accomplishments. they treat these as something any president could've done. i don't think any president could've put us in a position where we would be recovering from the pandemic better than any other industrialized country in the world. i don't think any president who didn't have the type of experience and understanding of how to get things done, would have been able to get us in a position where we are seeing unemployment at record lows. we are seeing real wages grow for the first time in forever. i don't think, without having a leader with his type of focus and vision of how our economy should work in the first place, when it been able to do what he did. he says it all the time. he has a focus on investing in working people and middle class families and recognizing that when you do so everybody does better. on the other side, you had a republican party who has made it very clear, they have a very different vision. their vision is, if you give more and more money to the people at the top, the folks who are seeing record profits, if you just put more money in their pockets, maybe a nickel or penny will fall out and hit the working person on the head. >> literally trickle down economics. money has to fall from the pockets. but i have to ask you, we know the campaign has already begun in earnest, outreach to black and hispanic communities. they clearly think they have to do some work especially where young people of color are involved. what is it about the biden presidency that isn't resonating given the good works he has done, and given the way which democrats are able to point evidence about ways he has moved the country forward? >> i think we need to turn on its head that argument. you don't talk to voters just because you want something from them. you talk to them because you actually recognize that you have to listen, and you have to earn their votes, and i'm excited to see a president in a campaign that's not talking to black voters and young voters, the october before the election, as so often happens. i mean, this is a president who has made historic investments in hispanic media, in black media, in having conversations about what he has done. look at the issue of gun violence, for example. i was four years old the last time a major piece, a bipartisan gun legislation, passed in washington. this president was part of getting it done then. he was part of getting it done again. look at lowering the cost of insulin. the first time you and i met you were interviewing me in my district outside the church of the advocate in north philly. and that moment i remember talking to you about why i was running for state wrap. my mom rationed her insulin my entire life growing up. i lived six different places by the time this place is by the time i graduated high school. i think of the difference it would've made if my mother only had to pay 35 bucks for her insulin instead of the hundreds of dollars she and so many had to. pay both my parents passed by the time i was 27 because they don't have access to the type of health care that people deserve. for me and so many other folks, it's not hypothetical. it's not a game. what i love to see is this president understands that black voters are a part of the coalition that elected him. but he is doing what too many people forget to do, which is to make sure that you are continually courting the people that brought you to the dance, that you're showing them that not only are you going to lead on issues that matter, but you're also gonna listen to them on things we continue to do. the child tax credit. the president i know is gonna make sure that we bring the child tax credit back because we know the impact. it lowered child poverty. cut it in half. for families like mine, that makes a difference. and so he is taking nobody for granted. but he is also not getting distracted with the noise and the nonsense that we see from that maga mike and from donald trump and all these other people. >> unfortunately he's going to have to address maga-ism while also making the case for his not significant achievements first term in office. malcolm kenyatta, i love that you remember when we were first met. it was a special day for me too. look at us now. we did good. state representative malcolm kenyatta, member of president biden's national advisory board. now i want to bring in michelle goldberg, opinion columnist for the new york times. i just want to get to something i was just touching on with representative kenyatta, which was this idea that biden effectively has a two-pronged approach here. and once he has to remind the country of the darkness of maga on the horizon and its chief principal architect, donald trump, potentially being the nominee, and then also sort of paint a more optimistic picture of what the country can be if he is given four more years in office. that seems like a lot of high wire acting to do. >> i think the first part of that is gonna be much easier because ultimately he'll have donald trump's help, donald trump and the rest of his acolytes in congress. we're not seeing a lot of donald trump right now. his fraud trial is kind of preempted by the hideous situation in the middle east. but once the campaign begins in earnest, donald trump will be back in people's faces every day reminding people, not just how, not just kind of what a grotesque figure he is, but also how much more radical his rhetoric is now, even than it was in 2016. and so i think that would go a long way towards making the case of what a maga restoration will look like. the other part is really hard, to give this country, which is so battered, so depressed, so polarized, a sense of hope and optimism and forward momentum, especially because biden, i think, has been a very good president. he's been a very good administrator. but he is not a great orator. he is not the one who leaves you in tears at the end of the rally. >> i think the fundamental question, michelle, is how much biden can leave the hard work of the fire and brimstone version of america to donald trump, who is happy, it appears, to do it on his own, and how much he has to be a direct contrast to that. you look at the reaction in lewiston, maine. how much can he just kind of sit back and let trump be a post-empathy rage machine and he can just act the part of the actual statesman in all of this. >> well, i think that, a couple of things. first of all, i think being able to act the the statesman to some degree depends on notching some more foreign policy successes. it's easier to act the statesman when the world doesn't seem like it's on fire even though i don't fault biden for many of the ways the world is descending into chaos. but also i think that biden represents or ran in 2020 on a return to normality. but i think it's increasingly clear that the pre-trump status quo isn't coming back. so what we needed this point is he talked about being a bridge to the future. and i think that he needs to show more clearly what that future is, where that bridge is leading. >> the numbers on american perceptions regarding his legislative accomplishments are just staggering. staggeringly insufficient, given how much his administration has gotten done. that is a big part of the proposal of the way forward. michelle goldberg, thank you as always for your insights. coming up tonight, we will have a deep dive into a major player in some of the most effective and extreme right wing lawsuits in america's courts. a player who was reportedly on the shortlist for a much bigger role should there be a trump administration 2.0. meanwhile, breaking developments in trump's criminal trial down a, washington and lee. we're gonna bring you the details on that, coming up next. why choose between a longer life or quality of life? you deserve both. and with kisqali, a treatment for people with metastatic breast cancer, you can have both. kisqali is a pill that, when taken with an aromatase inhibitor is the only treatment of its kind shown to both help people live longer and improve or 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[limu emu squawks.] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ >> we have breaking news today pertaining to the gag order imposed on donald trump by judge tanya chutkan, received federal kyle that she is presiding over regarding trump's efforts to undermine the 2020 election. a three-judge panel will hear o oral arguments on this gag order, but in the meantime the appeals court issued a temporary stay on the gag order until the court can rule on its merits. at least for now trump is no longer barred from publicly targeting court personnel or potential witnesses or prosecutors. trump's team has signaled that it is very eager to continue litigating this, suggesting late last night that his defense team may take this all the way up to the supreme court. joining me now, barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan. barb, thank you for being here to help understand this net effect of all this. given, we know the three appointees, the three judges were appointed by democratic presidents, that should be an indicator, but these days it may be tends to be. what are the chances that the appeals court finds for trump? that they agree that they find this gag order sensorial? >> i think a low probability. a judge can impose the complete gag order on the parties if they find necessary to do that, to ensure the fair administration of justice. the classic case is the sam shepard case out of ohio, the doctor accused of killing his wife, which became a circus. the court they are held that if it's necessary to prevent the trial from becoming a circus like atmosphere, a judge can issue a gag order to maintain control over the case. with the judge in this case has allowed for donald trump is an awful lot of leeway. he can talk about joe biden and the biden administration, about doj, about the case, he can even talk about the judge herself. he just can't target individual parties, witnesses, and jurors, designed to protect the administration of justice. i'm a little surprised that they are allowing donald trump to speak and staying this gag order in the weeks leading up to their oral argument in november, when judge chutkan did that for just a few days donald trump jumps right back in and started talking about the deranged jack smith and going after mark meadows and william barr. so maybe they haven't been paying cclose enough attention, but i think if he gets a lift of this stay for a few days, you'll be added again. >> and not in significant there's safety concerns. it's not just a trump gets to run his. mouth in these moments when trump isn't gagged, if you will, people find themselves in harm's way because of things people said. could he get into a little bit beyond just that they may not even paying attention to the hazard caused by donald trump? >> yeah, i mean, ordinarily appellate courts like to preserve the status quo while a case is pending, before it comes before them. sometimes that's referred to as an administrative state. i guess they see the status quo as the absence of a gag order. so they will examine the order and decide whether it needs to be overturned or modified in some way. but i do agree with your point about not just protecting the fair ministration of justice but protecting the safety of some of the individuals involved. there's a phrase called stochastic terrorism, and it means we don't know exactly who or we it will be, maybe we'll be random, but when you make these kind of reckless statements about people, there's a good chance is someone who is unhinged out there will take it as an invitation to do violence against someone. for example when trump talked about the mar-a-lago search by the fbi and accused the fbi of planting evidence, a man in ohio heard that is a call to action, tried to breach the fbi's office in cincinnati with an assault rifle. he ended up dead, the pipeline, or there's enough examples out of this that some can take to be the bait that this is a real threat, not a theoretical one. there's >> also a practical implication in terms of the timing of these federal trials. we know judge cannon is presently we are waiting for her ruling on a new schedule for discovery that could put that trial potentially passed the election. how difficult do these deliberations make it for jack smith and the special counsel's office to say on the calendar that has been outlined thus far. i think march 4th is the federal interference case, the one with judge chutkan, the hush money case in between on march 25th, and then the cannon case america lotto the classified documents case. that's an abbreviated calendar, so how much do the deliberations on the part of these judges make a difference in terms of keeping the time? >> the accused the trump team of manipulating the, judges using them against each other. one of the eggs they made is if the trial starts on march and will have to be into times once because of start the next trial and may. special counsel said they'll be about five weeks between the two trials. it seems like things will be just fine. but one of the points they made is that they are sort of playing these two judges against each other, and as ask the judges not to be manipulated by judge and his team. they're saying they're asking for an extension and won because they can't be two places at the same time, a other asking for an extension in that case as well. one of these trials are legal in the spring. that's something to keep an eye on. of course, the best strategy for donald trump would be to delay these cases until after the election in hopes that he wins and that he can dispose of them once he's in office. >> we have got a lot to look forward to. barbara mcquade, thank you for your time and expertise. good to see. >> thank you, alex. much more ahead tonight, including an introduction. there is someone i want you to meet, someone whose legal work against liberal causes you are undoubtedly acquainted with, perhaps even personally. more on this guy, what he's been up to, and how his work impact you. that's next. ou that's next. rsv is out there. for those 60 years and older protect against rsv with arexvy. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. i chose arexvy. rsv? 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it is with comcast business. powering all your devices with gig-speed wifi. and you get fast downloads and uploads. pick it up! pick it up! oh we got this! because it's powered by the next generation 10g network. more speed for your business? it's not just possible. it's happening. get started for $59.99 a month for 12 months. plus, ask how to get an $800 prepaid card with a qualifying internet bundle. comcast business, powering possibilities. >> this week, we found out donald trump is reportedly preparing to fill a potential second administration with lawyers who will bend to his whims, despite what established laws suggest. the new york times details that close allies of trump prepared to staff his white house with a more aggressive breed of right-wing lawyer, dismissing even the ultra-conservative federalist society in search of even more radical legal footsoldiers. among the new breed of lawyers reportedly under consideration, is this man. his name is jonathan mitchell. he was the chief architect of texas's abortion bounty hunter law, the one that effectively encouraged citizen vigilantes to report abortion facilitators to law enforcement, and it took effect right before the supreme court dobbs decision, they won overturning roe v. wade. mr. mitchell managed to effectively end abortion access in texas, even when roe as still the law of the land, and that texas law was part of a broader legal ideology that jonathan mitchell spelled out years earlier, in a lot of your article, where he argued that legislatures had the power to overcome federal court rulings, to effectively make and and run around the courts ability to block a law from taking effect. the new yorker described it earlier this year. mitchell's mission is to undermine the court itself, as the final authority on the meaning of the constitution. now, in the end, jonathan mitchell did not need to undermine the supreme court -- did not need to undermine the supreme court to end national abortion access, because the court's conservative justices were more than happy to do that on their own, but that did not stop jonathan mitchell from trying to get the justices to go even further. when the supreme court took up the dobbs case, mitchell filed a brief, arguing that the court should not only allow states to ban abortions, but these courts should allow states to ban marriage equality and consensual gay sex. he tried to infer that the homogenous homophobic agenda earlier, by representing a texas judge who refuses to marry gay couples. in the meantime, he kept up attacks on access to abortion in states that still allow abortion. jonathan mitchell is the mind behind a new county by county effort in texas to keep pregnant people from crossing state lines for abortion services, literally. preventing those who need abortions from driving down certain roads. if donald trump is reelected, this is the kind of person who will be making policy in the white house, while trump works on his golf swing. this is the new breed of lawyer trump and his allies think will make trump's second term will be greater than the first. in the meantime, the fight for reproductive freedom is still being fought at the ballot box, and there is one critical election that will determine the future of many of those freedoms happening in just three days from now. that story is coming up next. and last for weeks. a pain so intense, you could miss out on family time. the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. 50 years or older? 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(we did it) start today at godaddy.com ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ get it with gurus. cargurus. >> next tuesday voters on the red state of hostile will decide whether to establish the right to an abortion in the state constitution by voting yes or no on ballot issue one it seems like a fairly straightforward choice, but just a few months ago, in august, a special election, more than 1. 7 million people voted no on a different battle issue. that measure would erase the threshold for changing constitutional amendments from a majority to a supermajority. constitutional amendments like the right to an abortion. just to be clear here, that august ballot issue one was an attempt by the ohio state lawmakers to make it harder to pass things like the upcoming november ballot issue one, so if you voted no on the first ballot issue one, you likely want to vote yes on the second ballot issue one, which is happening this tuesday. if you think that is not confusing enough, there is the language of amendment on the actual ballot, the language that has been approved by the republican controlled ohio ballot board. it states that the amendment would always allow an unborn child to be aborted at any stage of pregnancy, regardless of viability, if the shooting determination, the abortion is necessary to protect the pregnant women's life or health. so, yes, it is not exactly straightforward here. despite these intentional hurdles, abortion access advocates remain hopeful that the concern that brought voters to the polls to protect abortion access in six states last year, that their concern will also rally ohioans to vote yes to enshrining the right to an abortion in their state on tuesday. recent polling seems to bear that out. it's just 58% of likely voters are in favor of issue one passing, and early voting numbers in ohio currently on track to exceed doesn't--. the stakes here are high, and they are immediate for people in ohio. if issue one fails, state residents could face a currently frozen six-week abortion ban, and that's something that the states highest court could revive soon. joining me now is mimi -- president and ceo of reproductive freedom for all, known previously as pro-choice america. thank you for being here, this is such an important race. there is a lot of news that we don't get to every night. this one is a big deal. it's the first time, i believe that red state voters are going to be asked to vote yes on establishing the right to abortion. the previous red state referenda have been in first, which is not ending abortion access. this is a kind of affirmative access to abortion. how much of a challenge is that in a place like ohio? >> with ohio, it has been, as you laid out, -- -- first with the attempt to change the rules, then with the problematic language on the bout. finally, with the latest round that the governor has pushed out with his wife, blatantly lying about what the proposition does, and ironically, not addressing the press, having pointed questions about the six-week abortion ban that he signed, that is so extreme, it has no exception for rape or incest, or health of the mother. we are in a state where the biggest challenge of being in a red-controlled state, as you round that the governor has pushed out with his wife, blatantly lying about what the proposition does, and ironically, not addressing the press, having pointed questions about the six-week abortion ban that he signed, that is so extreme, it has no exception for rape or incest, or health of the mother. we are in a state where the biggest challenge of being in a red-controlled state, is you have officeholders who can mess with voters and polls and push disinfo in a way that seems very official because of their government officials. it's disturbing, but the good news is, as you indicated, we're feeling optimistic, cautiously. we are not taking anything for granted, but the youth vote registration has searched. attitudes on the doors from our supporters on the ground have been really positive. we're seeing a surge in volunteer-ism, and we feel good going into election day. >> you mentioned the chicanery which has been off the charts. also say nothing of having voters come out in august for a really critical vote, that, setting that aside, this is bernie moreno, who is a republican senate candidate. this is him talking about this amendment. can you play the sound? >> as a dad of two girls, it is about having the rapists forced to have her and abortion all without your consent as a minor. that is insane, it is not representative of ohio values. >> some right here, i think they're trying to frame this as a parental rights issue, and easing the example of a girl being raped and ordered to have an abortion by her rapist without informing her parents, which seems so nefarious, farfetched and largely unsupported by any facts. i wonder, what this tells you about the broader concern on whether it will pass? >> yeah, they are freaking out, alex. it's really ironic that he says it sounds insane because he sounds insane. the examples they're coming up with are so wild, and the disturbing part to be more serious here is the examples, the real life examples emerging from the band are dystopian and horrific. that is the real problem here. what is happening about parental consent is, they are desperately trying every route they can to whittle away abortion support. we are seeing claims that abortion rights movement, folks are supporting this language, this language supports gender affirming care, the parents will not have the ability to have any input. there is nothing in this proposition that has, nothing and the ballot language, i should say, that has any impact on ohio's parental consent laws. they are so desperate and worried about losing. as i said, before they're lying. it's the same playbook that we see in places like virginia, where i will be tomorrow with my team canvasing. we see that's been tons of money to lie to voters about what the bill actually does. descending happens today in pennsylvania, at a contentious supreme court race, that is all about abortion as well. we see republicans bend the rules, see them lie, see the farfetched outlandish arguments when the truth is, the horrendous, horrible stories are on the side of our movement. folks who are being the night care and are frankly in dangerous circumstances as a result. >> we did not have time to get to the fact that the secretary of state purged 26,000 voters from the ohio voter polls two weeks before the voter registration ends. if he can't win, just make sure they can vote. mini timmaraju, thank you for your time tonight. as a reminder, the election is on tuesday. if you are in support of enshrining reproductive freedom in the state of ohio, you want to be voting yes on ballot issue one. thanks, mini. when we come back, a judge in colorado honors with a double trump's eligible to run for president. we'll talk to one of the witnesses against the former president. that is next. that is next. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. oh. [dog barks] no it's just a bunny! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ i got this $1,000 camera for only $41 on dealdash. dealdash.com, online auctions since 2009. this playstation 5 sold for only 50 cents. this ipad pro sold for less than $34. and this nintendo switch, sold for less than $20. i got this kitchenaid stand mixer for only $56. i got this bbq smoker for 26 bucks. and shipping is always free. go to dealdash.com right now and see how much you can save. >> did donald trump give aid or comfort to the enemies of the united states, and should he be removed from the ballot in 2024? that is the question in a colorado court this week, as the judge has been hearing testimony in a lawsuit that claims that trump incited an insurrection on january six and therefore violated section three at the 14th amendment of the constitution. that states that anyone who swore to uphold the constitution as an elected official and then engaged in an insurrection or rebellion against the u.s. or has given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof, should not be able to hold federal or state office again. among the witnesses who testified during the five days of hearings this week, on the trump side, congressman ken buck, former trump campaign spokesperson, katrina pearson and kash patel. for the plaintiffs, police officer daniel hodges, who was crushed in a door frame by rioters on january six and democratic congressman eric swalwell. joining me now is congressman eric swalwell of california. he sits on the judiciary committee. congressman, thank you for being here. for people who have not seen any of this hearing, can you explain a bit about why you were called to testify? >> as you mentioned, the case is essentially that because the president engaged in an insurrection on january six, he's ineligible to be on the ballot in colorado. now, unlike donald trump, i can follow a judge's order, so i will not talk about the merits of the case, but the beauty here is that an independent judge is going to weigh the evidence that was presented and make a decision. i think the greater issue here is that over the past couple of months, in 2023, we have seen a tapestry of accountability come together against donald trump for his prior actions. he's been a stranger to accountability his whole career, as each that is moving together, we got a better shot at saving our democracy. so, whatever happens in new york and the civil trial or in florida with the documents case, or in washington d. c. with the january 6th case or the colorado case or my own civil case that i have, the beauty here, you would not be judged under trump justice, where he declares that he is the jury, judge and executioner. no, it will be a jury of his peers and independent jurists. at the end of all of this, when we come out of it, i don't think a single person will say, you know what, i think we were too hard on that guy. i think if anything, it will probably be, we probably did not hold him to account enough. >> i wonder as an independent observer, what you make of these movements to get trump off the ballot because a potential violation of the 14th amendment? how much stop the put in them? michael luttig, a conservative judicial expert and former and judge said today with my colleague nicole wallace that he thinks that this is not going to be a state court thing, this will go to the supreme court, and they are the ones will decide whether trump can be on the about or not? >> i will leave it to experts. i want to be him, and we have beaten him. his best day was in 2016, and then he lost in 17 in some of the governors races. he lost an 18, and the midterm election. he lost the white house in 20, and the senate, when he kept the house. in 22, we kept the senate, and the red wave was avoided. we beat his candidates in special elections. he's a loser, and i am happy to be him again. i was asked to testify in the case. i told a story of what i experienced on january six. i do personally believe he engaged an insurrection. bur it's up to the judge to decide what that means. i think democrats should be confident that we can beat this guy again. we can bury trumpism, and when we do that, because democracy the best chance of writing a new chapter for america and coming out of the dark place that he has taken us for so long. >> i do want to follow up on that. the notion of beating trumpism is elusive at best. this is a person that we talked about earlier on the show, that is running ahead of joe biden, our sitting president, by half a point. granted, that is small within the margin of error, nonetheless, a person who faces 91 felony counts, a person implicated, at best, if not far, far worse in the insurrection at the capitol, still has a wealth of support. do you think that a trial is enough? do you think that taking him off the ball is truly enough to rid the country of trumpism? >> it all goes to the bigger issue here, which is that he brings chaos, democrats are bringing confidence.