what will trump's eldest son say about allegations of a decade's long business fraud. out of gaza. several americans among those evacuated through a keyboarder crossing as israel ramps up its ground assault. will they be the first of many? plus, a refugee camp where dozens died in an israeli strike. it's hit again as more hospitals run out of fuel they need to function. the latest on a spiraling humanitarian crisis. and breaking news from the federal reserve, there's a new decision on interest rates as the country grapples with a too hot to handle economy. our nbc news reporters are following all of the latest developments. first to nbc's lindsey reiser outside the courthouse in new york where where he could see donald trump jr. take the stand. what's the latest there? >> reporter: we have video of don jr. arriving around lunchtime. we have an increased police presence outside the courthouse. yes, we are likely going to hear from don jr. today. first, we are hearing cross-examination of the state's only expert witness, an expert on discouragement. what was gained as a result of illegal trump. saying trump, his adult sons and the trump organization cfo, allen weisselberg, profited on the over valuation on the statement of the financial conditions. they got better terms. this expert is testifying to the fact that about $168 million in lost revenue from interest rates is what cost the banks. remember one of the former presidents, nobody lost money, the banks got their money, and everybody walked away happy. this expert is saying that $168 million were left on the table here, and that's just in has gone over so far.his witness once trump's attorneys are done with the cross-examination, then we can expect the state to call don jr. to testify in his capacity as executive vice president. we can expect a lot of the same documents we have been seeing throughout this trial, the statement of financial condition shown to the banks to get the loans that the attorney general's office says contains the over valuations. during some of his video taped deposition, he was asked about gaap, generallily accepted accounting principles. he said he only knows what he learned in accounting 101 and basically knows that they're generally accepted, and testified in the deposition, chris, that he did not have to use gaap in his daily work. the state is going to try to show in his capacity he was supposed to use that. we can expect in his defense that don jr. will essentially try to shift blame to other members of the trump organization, accountants who had more to do with the valuations, chris. >> lindsey reiser, thank you so much. just breaking, we learned that the federal reserve is keeping interest rate hikes on pause at a time when borrowing costs are at a 22-year high. cnbc's morgan brennan has the latest from cnbc on msnbc, so talk about this decision, and the implications. >> hi, chris, it's good to see you. we just got this decision. the federal reserve leaving interest rates unchanged. this was widely expected, extending the pause at its policy meeting today. this is the second straight time officials have opted to keep rates unchanged. keep in mind, the benchmark rates at elevated levels. up more than 5 percentage points since the fed began hiking in march of 2022. the fed has been very clear in its message of higher for longer for those rates. the key today, though, in this decision was unanimous among the voting members, fed chair jay powell's comments in the press conference which will kick off in just under a half hour, investors will be looking for clues about how the central bank is thinking about the future starting with the next policy decision in december, which will be the last of 2023. markets think the fed is done raising rates, but officials have repeatedly said this will depend on the data. that's the conundrum for the fed, and it's showing up in the release from the fomc today as well. after the worst bout of inflation in four decades, it's come down, but the pace of those price increases, it's still too high, more than 3% higher than the fed's 2% target. meantime, despite the aggressive monetary cycle, most aggressive monetary cycles in a generation, the economy seems to be hanging in there. it's much more resilient than experts thought at the start of the year. labor markets staying relatively strong. consumers continue to spend. you saw that with third quarter gdp of 4.9%. where does powell and the rest of the fed see the economy going from here, especially if the full effect of the previous rate increases hasn't been fully felt yet. the other factor, the bond market, the yield on the ten-year treasury bond spiked to 5% last month. it's come off since then. that's the highest in 16 years. this is the benchmark for loans. it has made mortgages, credit card interests, and corporate debt much more expensive now. and because of that, chris, is arguably going to do some of the work for the fed, meaning cooling demand, which in turn should continue to cool inflation further. we will be watching for the powell comments in a little while. >> i know it literally just happened, but are the markets reacting. >> so far, markets are positive right now. i'm looking at a chart of the s&p 500, it's up about 1/2% now. dow seeing a similar move. we're hanging on to gains after a red october. a rough month for stocks last month. >> morgan brennan, thank you so much. it's good to see you, my friend. in gaza, hundreds of foreign nationals are waiting for their turn to cross into egypt after the rafah border crossing opened for the first time since the october 7th hamas attack. nbc's josh lederman is reporting from tel aviv for us today. i understand a u.s. official has confirmed to nbc news several americans were able to get out. what other details do we know? >> reporter: well, the hope, chris, was that as many as 500 foreign nationals including those americans would be able to get out today. those are the numbers that were on a list that nbc news obtained from the border authorities in gaza. as of the last update we got from those border authorities, about 335 people had managed to start the process of moving from gaza into egypt, and another 76 injured civilians being allowed into egypt for medical treatment. but the american citizens are a small fraction of that. believed to be somewhere between 5 and 10. the hope is that this will be the start. the state department folks and matt miller suggesting just a few minutes ago that more americans could be getting out soon. take a listen. >> in the past 24 hours, we have informed u.s. citizens and family members with whom we are in contact that they will be assigned specific departure dates. we have asked them to continue to monitor their e-mail regularly over the next 24 to 72 hours for specific instructions about how to exit. the u.s. embassy in cairo is standing by to provide assistance to u.s. citizens as they enter egypt. the situation remains extremely fluid, but this has been an important breakthrough. >> reporter: now, hamas has been blamed for weeks by the u.s. and israel of refusing to allow these foreign nationals, including those americans to even get to the border crossing, chris. today, hamas is suggesting they want to see the border crossing now remain open permanently. they are concerned less about the foreign nationalists, as well as aid coming the other direction from egypt into the gaza strip with somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 aid trucks getting into gaza today. hoping that more aid will be flowing in the coming days. chris? >> josh lederman, thank you for that. but inside gaza, a second strike has hit the jabalya refugee camp, a day after the previous strike killed dozens. i want to bring in raf sanchez from ashdod, israel. have we heard anything from the idf about this strike? >> reporter: chris, in just the last couple of minutes, the idf telling us the second strike was targeting what they say is a hamas command and control center, which was deliberately hidden underneath civilian homes in the jabalya refugee camp in northern gaza. they said yesterday they were targeting a senior hamas leader who was involved in the october 7th massacre. today, it was a control center. the question, chris, is about proportionality, and it's a question you're hearing all around the world. is it worth it to successfully kill one senior hamas figure if you also kill dozens of palestinian civilians, which is what we are hearing from the director of a nearby hospital happened in yesterday's strike. we don't have figures about what happened today, but just judging by the images it does appear there was very widespread destruction. the message from the israeli government, from the israeli military is they are laser focused on their mission, which is toppling hamas, which is making sure that this organization is never able to, again, carry out a massacre on the scale that it did on october 7th. a thousand israeli civilian, some 400 israeli soldiers killed. we had a chance earlier. we were taken by the israeli military to see weapons and some vehicles that hamas used during that massacre, and i had a chance to speak to a senior israeli officer there. take a listen to what he had to say. how do you feel as a soldier, as an israeli knowing that these weapons were used on civilians? >> i think this is the hardest part. militaries should fight militaries. soldiers should fight soldiers. knowing that these types of weapons were fired on families inside houses, this is terrible. this is the definition of terror. >> reporter: and, chris, israel says it has no choice but to go into gaza from the air, from the ground, as we're seeing israeli forces encircling gaza city to topple hamas because they need to protect israeli citizens, that it is simply unacceptable to have an organization like hamas controlling the gaza strip, just a couple of miles from those israeli communities, but what you are hearing from a growing number of world leaders and protests around the world is concern about the ever growing toll among palestinian civilians. the death toll, more than 8,000 inside gaza. that's according to the hamas run health ministry. 3 1/2 thousand of those killed are children, according to that same ministry. we are hearing from unicef. they are referring to the gaza strip as a graveyard for children right now. the u.s. so far not pressuring israel to agree to a cease fire, but we did hear from secretary blinken when he was on capitol hill yesterday saying that the biden administration would like to see what he's calling humanitarian pauses, which are pauses in the fighting to allow more humanitarian aid to get into gaza. secretary blinken had already been in israel twice since october 7th. he will be back here on friday. we expect that he will be going to other regional capitals, trying to, at the same time, provide diplomatic cover for the israelis, but also to press israel, to minimize civilian casualties and to allow more humanitarian aid into gaza, chris. >> raf sanchez, thank you. hamas claims it will release a number of foreign hostages in the coming days, as israel claims there is no deal in sight. so what is really going on? i'll ask a current adviser to prime minister netanyahu in 60 seconds. ime minister netanyahu 0 seconds. he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ my frequent heartburn had me taking antacid after antacid all day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. in an extraordinarily rare and potentially historic move, the house could vote today on weather to expel embattled u.s. congressman, george santos. the u.s. house archives shows only five lawmakers have ever been expelled, and if today's vote was to be successful, sanchez would be the first in 20 years to be moved in a motion brought by members of his own delegation. nbc's ali vitali is on capitol hill for us. i know this requires a 2/3 vote of the chamber to expel a lawmaker. what are we expecting how this is going to unfold? >> reporter: it's not clear the math works when they need to get 2/3 of the majority of the chamber to expel santos. we know democrats would be on board for that. the question is how many republicans would also join them. we know, for example, several key new york freshmen, including mike lawler, despacito, all of those lawmakers are the ones who brought this expulsion forward in the first place. they're expected to continue forward, but again, we're not sure they have the numbers on their side to actually expel santos. there's two things here i'm paying attention to, the first is the fact that leadership, all the way back to kevin mccarthy as speaker and probably now for speaker johnson as well, they have been reluctant to move forward on expelling santos. they have been more than happy to let it play out in the court and the ethics committee. that's because the numbers game here for house republicans is a very real one. they're operating with a thin majority, losing santos would make it ever thinner. the other piece of this, though, chris, is the fact that the ethics committee itself released a statement yesterday saying that they have been doing their work since february when they first opened this probe into santos. they have been subpoenaing, they have been getting documents together, and that they will have an update on what comes next from their perspective on or before november 17th. that could be enough to give anyone who wants to vote to expel to give them enough coverage through thanksgiving. >> 40 witnesses, 37 subpoenas, 170,000 pages of documents. we'll wait for that. in the meantime, i think there's going to be another vote expected, right, on censuring potentially. democratic congresswoman rashida tlaib, and republican congresswoman marjorie taylor greene. what's that about? >> reporter: this is the settling of scores on both sides. republicans came forward with a censure for congresswoman talib, they are calling anti-semitic, in the after math of the attack on israel. talib has been pro palestine and you saw democrats after that censure request come forward and saying they were censuring marjorie taylor greene for similar kinds of statements. we'll watch all of these congressional hr complaints play themselves out on the floor tonight. these are the first votes we'll see in a series of votes this week, and we'll watch to see how this actually works out. i think there's an interesting point of history. i always look to our house producer, kyle stewart for these. he was looking back on what the first censure was over, and a member was censured for speaking ill or in an untoward way. striking how far we've come in the language as censurable, versus not, for house members as they talk about their colleagues, chris. >> ali vitali, thank you so much. republican congressman ken buck announcing here on nbc he will not run for reelection. the colorado lawmaker told my colleague, andrea mitchell, he's disappointed with congress's inability to deal with major issues and also disappointed that the republican party continues to rely on the lie that the 2020 election was stolen. he has broken from his party on a few notable occasions as of late, including the vote to remove kevin mccarthy as speaker. new bipartisan legislation that could reform the way immigration's court system treats children. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. 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>> the bottom line is this, don't believe what hamas is saying. it's psychological warfare. it's all propaganda. they say one thing one day and the opposite the next. we've got to have nerves of steel. of course we care for each and every one of those 240 people being held hostage. hamas is playing with their lives like pawns in a chess game, very cynically. we have to be strong. we have to remain resolute, and we have to, most importantly, keep the pressure up on hamas. because hamas isn't going to release them because they suddenly become a humanitarian organization. they're not going to become middle eastern boy scouts. if that pressure is intensified, we believe we can get people out. >> we see people holding up kidnapped signs, activists, a display in jerusalem, 200 beds, baby cribs to symbolize the hostages being held. and the message is, bring them home now. what do you say to families who feel the israeli government is prioritizing the ground assault over negotiations to bring their loved ones home safely? >> you know, the baby cribs you just referred to, chris, they are there because there are 30 children who were kidnapped by hamas. some infants. some very small children. and it's just criminal. everything hamas has done is criminal, but this is especially disgusting. the fact that they kidnapped little, little children shows exactly who hamas is and what sort of barbarity. they are terrible people. president biden said correctly they are sheer evil, and that's who we're dealing with. a fanatical barbaric terrorist organization. to answer your question -- >> no one doubts the criminality. no one is doubting that taking these innocent people hostage, including those babies is a horror, an act of terror. the concern that many of these families are expressing is the way israel is dealing with it. >> so, first of all, our hearts go out to their families, and they deserve our support, our empathy, and we have to listen carefully to what they're saying. the israeli government after looking at all the issues, we have decided the following. i'm sure we're correct. there is no contradiction between pursuing the military operation against hamas and getting the hostages out. i said a moment ago that hamas isn't going to suddenly release these people because, you know, they've changed their stripes so to speak. no, hamas, as we just said, is a brutal organization. a horrific organization. if these people are released, it's only because there's massive pressure on hamas. and through the military operation we're beefing up the pressure on hamas. hamas is receiving powerful blows from israel. and we think that sort of pressure, that sort of massive pressure that israel is applying on hamas will expedite the release of more hostages. >> what makes you think that? what in history suggests to you that that is going to happen, and are you so sure of where the hostages are being held that you feel any of your strikes could never hit them? >> so, first of all, we can never be 100% sure. but it's all a matter of calculating risks. right? that's what we're talking about. i mean, i would like to tell you that we could have a deal tomorrow and have them all out, and i can tell you behind the scenes there were serious attempts to see if it was possible to get them out in a different way. so far that has failed. the qataris have been proposing their track of something behind the scenes. israel has taken that seriously, but so far that track has not produced much at all. we've got four out out of the 240 that remain. it's a pitiful number. the proof of the pudding is in the eating. so far your track has not given results. we think if we beef up the pressure on hamas, and we beef up the pressure on qatar to show what it can do, maybe that's the way to get our people out. >> let me ask you about part of that pressure. there was a second strike today on the jabalya refugee camp a day after the israeli strike targeted what you say was a top hamas official or group of officials. it killed at least dozens of palestinian civilians, injured hundreds, perhaps thousands more and is generating a lot of criticism. qatar, which has played a key role in mediating recently, saudi arabia, uae called it, saudi arabia called it inhumane. a quarter of the buildings now in northern gaza are damaged and unicef said gaza is graveyard for children. help us to understand the calculation of doing that against the risk to so many civilian lives? >> first of all, we don't want to see civilian casualties. i repeat that. we don't want to see civilian casualties. two weeks ago, we urged the civilians to leave the northern parts of the gaza strip where we knew there would be intense fighting. >> and many of them who went south say they ended up either under fire or members of their family died. where is truly safe? >> there's a special zone being created in the southern gaza strip on the coast, the southwestern part of the gaza strip where people can receive aid both from the rafah crossing in the south androm the sea. we have been talking to some of the europeans, the french, the english. we're talking about shipshat can give sort of hospital ships that can give support. the egyptians have facilitated on their border, there's a field hospital, a sort of mesh facility. the idea is those civilians going to the south will be safer. we're not expecting active combat in the southwest there along the coast. there aren't built up hamas facilities there like there are in places like gaza city, and the truth is you don't have to believe me. 800,000 palestinians in the north and possible more by now have voted with their feet. they know it's safer to go there. we are working with the international community to make sure the humanitarian infrastructure is there to meet the needs of the displaced people. as more trucks come from the south, as the international community gets its act together, we are creating a safer zone there. we want civilians out of the line of fire. hamas, however, chris, wants them to stay. hamas has ordered people not to leave. hamas wants gaza civilians there as human shields. and this is something that needs to be thought about. we are perceived as the enemies of the palestinians, yet israel is taking every step possible to safeguard palestinian civilians, while hamas that claims to speak for the palestinians, they of course, have no care whatsoever -- >> do you deny, ambassador, that palestinians who went to areas that they were told were safe ended up dead? >> so if they went to hanunas, a major city in the south, there there are hamas facilities, hamas infrastructure, and we're not going to stop hitting hamas. hamas is shooting rockets out of that part. of course if there's a war going on. the safe zone, up until now there's no urban area there, there's no hamas infrastructure, it is safer to go there. can i caution you with one thing, chris? >> yes. >> hamas controls a lot of the message coming out of the gaza strip, because they have stamped out internal opposition. they have an ability to control even the visual message coming out of gaza. i would ask you a question, you have seen many pictures of killed civilians coming out of gaza. they have been broadcast on networks across the field. have you seen a single picture of a dead hamas fighter, and the answer is no. hamas doesn't want you to see that picture. they want you only to see pictures of collateral damage. you have to assume if you believe the pictures that all the damage is collateral, and we haven't hit a single hamas target. that's obviously illogical. hamas, though, because of its totalitarian nature of its regime can control the pictures coming out of gaza. every time you interview, let's say a director of a hospital in gaza. can they actually say what they believe? are they not subject to the same sort of authoritarian power of the hamas movement, the brutality that hamas is capable of, of course they're not going to criticism hamas. of course they will say it's israel's fault. people have to understand if you interview people in hamas controlled gaza, it's like interviewing people in poland or what used to be the soviet union. it's an authoritarian regime, with the ability to be ruth lest -- ruthless against their own people. >> there is no one watching who doubts the brutality of hamas or that it is a terrorist organization. i will say as we have talked to groups, including doctors without borders and other doctors, they have not talked about hamas. they have just talked about the people they have had to treat and their own personal experiences. former ambassador, mark regev, thank you so much for being on the program. a cornell student charged with making graphic, anti-semitic threats due in court this hour. the shocking allegations that prosecutors say he admitted to, next. ors say he admitted to, next and my favorite homes are wayfair homes. the wayfair homes just have that razzle dazzle. they redid the guest room. all at prices you can't believe but you should and blitzen fast shipping, north pole in two days so this year go to wayfair for goodness sake. the gifts. you have one job nick. ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪ right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. this is spring semester at fairfield-suisun unified. they switched to google tools for education because there's never been a reported ransomware attack on a chromebook. now they're focused on learning knowing that their data is secure. 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[sniffs] still fresh. still fresh! get 6 times longer-lasting freshness, plus odor protection with downy unstopables. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. cornell university student charged with making online threats targeting jewish students is due to appear in a new york federal court. the university junior allegedly threatened to violently assault and kill jewish people at the college and quote, shoot up a campus building in a series of disturbing online posts. nbc's tom winter is following this for us. also with me, civil rights attorney and former brooklyn prosecutor, msnbc legal analyst, charles coleman. tom, walk us through these charges and what we expect in court today? >> it should be a fairly short hearing here, chris. it's not clear that we'll get an arraignment out of it, in other words, an opportunity for this individual to plead guilty or not. what we know from the criminal complaint that was filed last night and sworn to by an fbi agent and a judge is that they're able to trace back his ip address from one of the threats that was posted and several e-mails that were sent to the university directly back to him and his account. that's what clued them in to jason day, age 21. after his miranda rights were read to him, he admitted to making the posts. we're taking a look at his mug shot provided to us as part of a public information request. whether or not additional charges will be filed later is a bit of a question, chris, and of course we want to hear what the results of a search warrant that was executed on his residence were to determine whether or not he had any sort of weapons or anything else that was on his person that could be concerning to law enforcement. and then on top to have that, we want to find out whether or not he's been involved in any of the other threats that have gone to colleges or universities, specifically columbia university here in new york. >> so, charles, let me start there because the search warrant, if they find weapons, if they find other threats on his computer or anything else like that, does that change the game? >> it could, and part of the reason it could, chris, is that they are going to then try to understand is there any connection to larger network of groups or other individuals who had also planned to do harm to people on college campuses or in neighborhoods. you have to understand, of course, we're dealing with an environment that is already very sensitive to islamophobia, very sensitive to anti-semitism, a number of things, and also couple that with the idea that we have seen a number of different mass shootings occur, particularly on college campuses of late. all of these things would likely expand an investigation into how deep does this rabbit hole go, and it could be a game changer if it's found that he's linked or connected to other individuals. >> even if he's not, and again, this is all speculation. we don't know that anything was found. we don't know what might be found. if there is something that would suggest to them that an individual wanted to make good on threats that they made, is that a different kind of case? >> yes, it is. and i think that it would come with additional charges because now you're talking about something that extends beyond sort of just your conversation. you're talking about something that extends beyond mere preparation, and so because you have the presence of these things, you've talked about what it is that you want to do. you have posted and sent threats, you could see additional charges added and he would likely be facing further prosecution on the basis of the fact that he had gone to the extent of securing the items that would be necessary in order to make good on these threats that he had posted on the internet. >> all right. so as tom said, after he was mirandized, we are told he admitted he made these threats. that's not a court of law, right, but let's say he did make these threats and we're not even showing a reading of them. that's how abhorrent they are, and how incredibly specifically threatening they are. what crosses the line from free speech into something that is criminal? >> that's a great question, and i think it's important to understand that in his case right now, the reason that he's arrested isn't necessarily the threats. it's that the threats were made on the internet, and that's why it gets federal jurisdiction because it crosses state lines, and that's why the statute that you have is what it is. now, in another instance, if he were to, for example, lead a rally or go out and sort of say to other people across campus that this is what should be happening, and people gathered their tiki torch asks other things, and he incited that violence, he would be criminally responsible for that. a lot of it depends on the platform this is posted on, who has access to the platforms and also the nature of the actual speech itself, and in this case, what crosses the line is that he is talking about specific acts of violence, making threats against a group of people on the internet. and those two things combined is why you see him being charged in this case. >> with nearly a 400% increase in anti-semitic actions including this kind of harassment, vandalism, et cetera. i think if nothing else the fact that they moved quickly on this shows folks out there who might be doing the same that they're serious about fighting this. thank you, charles coleman, appreciate that. today we saw a rare bit of bipartisanship on capitol hill. a group of republicans and democrats introducing legislation that could reform the way the immigration court system treats children. right now, that system has more than 60,000 pending cases that involve children who crossed the border without a parent. many of them have their right to stay in the u.s. without lawyers. let me look at that again. many of them have to defend their right to stay in the u.s. without lawyers. that makes sense. in courts meant for adults and in front of judges who sometimes don't understand their unique situation. to address that problem, a new bill introduced in the senate would create kids only courts. we're continuing to follow this story to see what happens there. new efforts by former president donald trump and his legal team to delay his classified documents trial. but will the judge buy it? 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could this be grounds for the judge delaying the trial? >> possibly. i mean, the government, the prosecutors have an absolute obligation, as you know, chris, to provide information to a defendant so that he or she can prepare their defense. sometimes that process is protracted or cumbersome, particularly so when you have classified information. the trial judge originally set a date for trial for next may, may of 2024, which seems to me and certainly seemed at the time to be completely reasonable. the trump defense team will argue that they need more time, and we'll see whether or not she is willing to grant them more time, but it still seems to me that that trial date should hold. it may not. >> let's talk about what constitutes reasonable if we can, chuck, because when we hear about the mountains of documents, i mean, hundreds of thousands of documents. obviously part of that is just now in this day and age, we're able to keep track of everything, so we've got it. does that also allow those that need to review it, that's the heart of this case, right, how long do they need to legitimately review it to do that in a way that isn't quite as cumbersome as the number of pages might lead you to believe? >> that's a great question. so when you hear that there might be millions of pages, you know, the thought of two attorneys sitting down and reading every word on every page of those millions of documents strikes us as extraordinarily cumbersome, very difficult to do. but you know this, chris, they can perform keyword searches. it will be immediately apparent that some documents are duplicative or largely duplicative of others, and so there are ways electronically and logically to take that very large number and narrow it down to documents that you really need to focus on, and, oh, by the way, the number of classified documents at the heart of this case is relatively small. >> well, let me -- actually that's an interesting point because i want to dig into the use of this secure facility to view these classified documents, right? abc news reports that trump and his team used one in miami yesterday, but the special counsel told the judge a few weeks ago,quote, although the defee scif is approved for the review and discussion of all classified discovery, it isot yet approved for the storage of certain extreme sensitive materials which the government has referred to as special measures document. they say that covers about 127 pages worth of material. so what exactly in language all of us can understand does that mean? >> sure. well, think about it in tiers. there's classified information. it could be secret. it could be top secret. it could be top secret and compartmented, which is an extremely high level of classification, and here, a small number of documents, 127 or so at a level that requires the most protected, most expense -- sensitive, most special facilities to handle and read and discuss it. again, you're talking about a relatively small number. if i'm not mistaken, i believe the facility available to mr. trump and his defense team can handle his documents, too. so it should be reasonably apparent, reasonably quickly to the defense lawyers what it is they need to focus on. a million sounds like a lot. 127 pages, far less. it seems to me the trial date in may is a date that should hold. again, it may not. but i believe it should. >> all right. so we have a little bit of breaking news for you, which is that donald trump jr., i understand, has just taken the stand. this is the civil trial, right, the one that involves the former president, don jr., his brother eric. they're trying to fend off allegations that they fraudulently inflated asset bis -- assets by up to $2 billion. the judge has said there's fraud involved. the question is how broadly the punishment, i guess, will be. what's the importance you see of now getting one of the brothers who took oh control of the company when donald trump became president getting him on the stand right now? >> well it should be very important to the judge in trying to determine, to your point, chris, how broad and deep the fraud was. you're right, he already made a finding that there was fraud that assets were inflated for, you know, to either get better credit terms with banks or to lower insurance rates. donald trump jr. is a defendant in the case. civil case, not a criminal case. no one is going to jail as a result, but his testimony could be very important to the judge. by the way, donald trump jr. like others similarly situated has a difficult path to navigate here. he would have a fifth amendment privilege to refuse to answer any question if a truthful answer could incriminate him. i don't know that he would invoke that privilege. his father did hundreds of times when he was deposed in this civil case when the state attorney general asked him a bunch of questions, mr. trump refused to answer them because of his fifth amendment privilege. it will be interesting to see if donald trump jr. opts for that same path. but his testimony, i guess, ostensibly could help his father's business in their position that the fraud wasn't intentional or as broad as the judge might fear. i'm sure he's hoping to mitigate any penalties that the company may incur, but we're going to have to wait and watch and'. >> we have been showing the video of him walking into the center street courthouse. they have been letting people in to take pictures and he quipped he should have worn makeup. levity aside, they have been asking the questions you're familiar with, chuck, are you taking my medications, no, are there any conditions that would keep you from testifying truthfully, no. let me talk to you about the heart of this and how you think prosecutors will approach him. >> right. so, again, while it is a case brought by the state attorney general and they have some prosecuting authority in new york, please do remember this is a civil case. no one is going to jail as a result. prosecutors are going to want to know, chris, what his role was, what he knew about the inflated value of the assets, whether he condoned it, whether he sanctioned it, whether he ordered it, and so though the government bears the burden of proof at the civil trial, they're going to have an opportunity to question mr. trump, donald trump jr., that is, in this case, to try and establish, again, how deep, how broad, how widespread the fraud was and whether it was done intentionally by donald trump jr. or others within the orbit of the trump organization. and it's very important to the trump organization, i would imagine, to be able to continue to do business in new york, to not lose their licensed to do so. donald trump jr. could be an important witness for both sides. we'll have to see how his testimony shakes out, of course, but he could be an important witness for both sides. >> you articulated what is at stake here, the ability to do business in new york for the trump family. donald trump jr., the first of four family members expected to take the stand. chuck rosenberg, thank you for rolling with the breaking news. appreciate that. that's going to do it for us this hour. join us for "chris jansing reports" every weekday, 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. our coverage continues with "katy tur reports" after the break. h "katy tur reports" after the break. 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