Transcripts For MSNBCW Dateline 20240703

We cant let this go. Its heartbreaking. Shed left for hawaii, a new life, with a new husband. But the sunny paradise soon grew dark. Something was very wrong it was horrible being so helpless. What was behind their moms strange death . They set out together to discover the answer. And they were about to get some help from their mother herself. There it was. Evidence she left for you to find . Yes a possible clue. Hidden, in an envelope marked baby pictures. But tucked inside . A journal that painted a different picture, entirely. We pulled out the envelope and that was like, wow. Could their mom help them solve her own mystery . We cant quit. We are her voice. We made a promise. We made a promise to our mom. Im lester holt. And this is dateline. Tonight, Keith Morrison with the promise. Here they were again. Two sisters on a holiday in paradise. Or so the other vacationers must have assumed here in americas midpacific garden. In the lush resort near honolulu. But they would be wrong. This journey has more to do with a personal hell than any paradise. That and a long ago promise to their mother. Could you have believed that you would be sitting here in this hotel room, talking about this subject, in the year 2014 . No. Its pretty crazy. I could have never seen this coming. Perhaps it is, pretty crazy. But there is apparently no stopping them, these tenacious sisters, tammy cocard and tiffany young. There is no halfway when it comes to to a promise. Its either all or nothing. Bizarre story . Oh yes, it is. At the center of it is a woman named shirlene van gundy. A beauty queen once, back in colorado. A girl who loved to dance and wear high heels. She was popular and unpredictable and kind of exciting. Long before she became the effervescent mother of tammy and tiffany. My mother was an incredibly beautiful beautiful soul. She taught both my sister and i that there was nothing that we we couldnt do. Hi. I love you. My earliest memories of her are her singing to me. She loved to sing. And she played with me. She was she was a big kid. What was that like for you . Oh, like i was the only child in the world. Like i was her full focus and attention. My mother was a free spirit in many ways and didnt have a lot of rules. I didnt have to do things like normal kids had to do. Like brush my teeth all the time. But i liked it that way. And so it was often tammie, and not her mother, who took on the responsible role with Little Sister tiffany, which was the other side of shirlenes manic exuberance. She was unstable. And she had a hard time taking care of herself, much less anyone else. Uhhuh. Unstable. She would have the highs of highs and the lows of lows. Moods. Very dark ones sometimes, said the girls. She didnt want to really admit that there was an issue. It was a hot button, and it wasnt something that you wanted to bring up unless you were ready for the fight. When shirlene left the girlsfather, tammie refused to go with her. I said, im not going. I cant leave. I cant leave my dad. What did that feel like . Like my heart was being ripped in two. The girls lived apart for years after that, until their father won custody of tiffany, too. And then the girls watched, loved, and worried about their mother mostly from afar. And then, late80s, shirlene finally found real happiness when she met and married a man named ken wakisaka. She goes, ive never been with a man who really got me. He gets me. She, in her whole life, i think had never felt so quite thoroughly and utterly embraced by someone who loved her just the way she was. And just because shirlene had dreamed of living in hawaii, ken got a job here and moved her to this condominium complex by a golf course on the pacific. He was a very likable guy. Very very much a gentleman, always opened the door for you. The sisters grew up, made lives of their own. Tiffany and her boyfriend, now husband, moved to arizona. Tammie settled in Northern California with a husband and two small children. And for a whole decade shirlene seemed so happy with ken. When did it change . It seemed to start to change around 1998. Shirlene told the girls that she and ken were fighting. Mid1999, she called them, very upset, and when they went to hawaii to see what was wrong, she said the strangest thing. Asked them to promise her something. She said, promise me. If anything ever happens to me, youll investigate. And we said, mom, what are you talking about, if anything happens to you . Just promise me, she said. Shirlene left ken soon after that. Moved to the mainland. The girls thought the break was permanent. Were relieved actually. But seven months later she said, im back in hawaii and im back living with ken and everythings fine. I dont want you to worry. But worry they did. She would call me and we would talk about things. And then she would call me again an hour later and she wouldnt remember anything that we talked about. It got so that tammie sometimes didnt pick up when her mother called. But of course she had no idea what was about to happen, least of all, one april night in 2000. Mom had started calling my house, and i was let the professionals that are going to sure. Theyll fix it. Theyre gonna fix it. But the paramedics didnt notice much to fix. Their report states patient was conscious but under emotional distress. She appeared calm but would not acknowledge our presence. Her spouse informed us she may have taken some aleve aspirin with two beers. The report continues. There were no empty containers of beer and no odor of alcohol on the patient. We were also informed by spouse that patient had said she was dying. Very unusual indeed. But the emts did not take shirlene to the hospital. Left her at home with ken, instead. How is it possible . How is it possible . This was horrible. It was horrible being so helpless. Tiffany was so far away, on the mainland, in a panic, trying to reach her mother. Calling repeatedly. Ken finally answered the phone. Here, ill put you on with her. You can talk to her. And she said, i love you. And and it was so hard for her to say it because the mere effort of moving her lips took so much. Eight long hours passed, and then, at 2 pm, ken called 911. They rushed her to the emergency room, did what they could. Nothing worked. Ken called tammie from the hospital. Tammie broke the news to tiffany. It went from, you know, just being in this place of such utter desperation and helplessness and despair and and uncertainty, like, and knowing in my heart that she was she was gone. Though still barely hanging on, on life support. And thats when it began with that first rush to their respective airports for flights to honolulu. No idea how long that journey would be. How hard that promise to keep. What had happened to their mom . When we come back, the sisters start their own investigation. Most people would just leave it to a Police Department to do the investigating. Not you two . No. And theyd find a possible clue from their mother herself. She said, if anything ever is to happen to me, i want you to ask for your baby pictures. Remember that, okay . Just remember that. When dateline continues. What had happened to their mom . When we come back, the sisters start their own investigation. Most people would just leave it to a Police Department to do the investigating. Not you two . No. Are infused with natural Essential Oils for authentic seasonal scents that fill your home with warmth and cheer. Travel. There is nothing like it dancing is my passion. But with my moderatetosevere eczema, it hasnt been easy. Now, im staying ahead of it. Dupixent helps heal your skin from within. So, you can clearer skin and noticeably less itch serious allergic reactions can occur, that can be severe. Tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems, such as eye pain or vision changes, including blurred vision, joint aches and pains, or a parasitic infection. Dont change or stop asthma medicines without talking to your doctor. Ask your doctor about dupixent this isnt charmin no wonder i dont feel as clean. Heres Charmin Ultra Strong. Ahhh my bottoms been saved with its diamond weave texture, Charmin Ultra Strong cleans better with fewer sheets and less effort. Enjoy the go with charmin. If theres pain when you try to poo and going sometimes feels like you pushed through a pineapple or two colace is the brand you need to soften stools, were all agreed 2 should be easy to do trust colace to soften stools with no stimulants for comfortable relief. Heres why you should switch from chrome to duckduckgo. Duckduckgo is a browser you download to your mobile and desktop devices. Unlike chrome, the Duckduckgo Browser has privacy builtin. It comes with a private alternative to google search, which doesn■t spy on your searches, and it blocks cookies and creepy ads. And theres no catch. Its free. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you around. Six anxietyfilled hours. On join the millions of people taking back their privacy by Downloading Duckduckgo On Mobile and desktop today. The long plane ride to hawaii, all Sisters Tammie and tiffany knew was that their mom was on life support. They werent sure why or even exactly what happened to her but during those six hours they had plenty of time to reflect on what she said to them nine months earlier. Promise me youll investigate. If anything happens to me, youll find out what happened. Theyd promised, of course. Though even before they even got on the plane for hawaii, they called the police to report that they already had their suspicions. And those suspicions, even then, were all about shirlenes husband, ken wakisaka. I heard from tiffany before i even went to st. Francis west. I was assigned the case by my lieutenant, and he said, before you go, call this girl. Tiffany told Detective Nick Cambra about her preflight conversation with the hospital. I asked the emergency Room Attendant ill never forget this. I said, wheres ken . And he said, he went home to feed the dogs. I said, so shes there by herself . Well, who does that . By the time Detective Cambra got to the hospital, he had been told what tammie and tiffany had suspect. That shirlene had taken or been given an overdose of pills. He also heard from medical personnel. They thought kens behavior seemed strange. Though no one, including the ambulance driver, could quite say why. He also related that the husband was acting suspicious. Did he say how . He said he just the way he spoke and the way he acted. Suspicious . Yes. When Detective Cambra heard that ken left the hospital while his wife was lying in a coma in the icu, he wondered, was ken going home to cover up a crime scene . And when cambra checked to see if ken had a record of any kind, he discovered, yes, he did. I did pull Police Reports of ken. Ken had been arrested for abuse. It gave cambra pause and made him consider what hed already heard from tiffany. That her mom had said she would never commit suicide and that she was afraid that ken was trying to kill her prior to this incident. Now, in hawaii, at their mothers bed in the icu, tammie and tiffany vowed to find out exactly what happened to their mother. You know, most people would just leave it to a Police Department to do the investigating. Not you two . No. First target . Ken and shirlenes condo. Must be evidence there, they decided. So, they made up a story for ken. Told him they needed a rest after their long flight. Could they borrow a bed in the condo . And, sure enough, he gave them the keys, while he stayed at shirlenes bedside in the hospital. When he was there, what did you guys do . We went to the house. In ko olina. To do what . To see what we could find. Just kind of look in cupboards, and under beds and in closets for what kind of stuff . For things that we thought that might help us to figure out what happened that day. Because shirlene sounded so out of it on the phone, and ken mentioned pills to the emts, tammie wondered if her mother took pills. In fact, the hospital was treating it as an overdose. But the sisters did not believe she would do it deliberately, so they went looking for those pill bottles. We had looked through the house and couldnt find them. And so we were out in the backyard, just looking. And sure enough in the backyard . Underneath a bush. As if theyd been hidden there or what . Yes. In their minds, only one person could have hidden them, ken. Later, as tiffany and tammie were about to drive away from the condo, having thrown in the back seat a sealed envelope ken had left out for them. Suddenly tiffany remembered Something Else her mom told her. She says, tiff, i have to tell you something, and its important. And she said, if anything ever is to happen to me, i want you to ask ken for your baby pictures. Remember that, okay . Just remember that. And, sure enough, that appeared to be what ken had just given them. They tore open the envelope and inside . Most definitely not baby pictures. Coming up there it was, evidence she left for you to find . Yes. What could be a revealing clue from their mom. When dateline continues. Th a limited time flavor drop. New crispy dragon shrimp. One of seven endless choices. Right now, only at red lobster. Welcome to fun dining. Even the most chill of parents know when its time to go into protect mode. Nothing kills more viruses on more surfaces than lysol disinfectant spray. Meet gold bond daily healing. A Powerhouse Lotion that moisturizes, heals, and smooths dry skin. With 7 moisturizers 3 vitamins. And. New gold bond healing sensitive. Clinically shown to heal moisturize dry, sensitive skin. Gold bond. You know that feeling of having to rewash dishes that didnt get clean . I dont. Cascade platinum plus. With double The Dawn Grease Fighting power and double the scrubbing power. For a no rewash clean. And a cabinet ready shine. Upgrade to cascade platinum plus. Dare to dish differently. With cirkul, your water is deliciously flavored at the turn of a dial, with zero sugar and zero calories. And cirkul has over 40 flavors, so your water can be as unique as you are. Try cirkul. Your water, your way. Now with even more flavors. Available at walmart or drinkcirkul. Com. Sisters tiffany and tammie read, transfixed, the contents of an envelope prepared by their mother, for them, and clearly marked baby pictures. But that is not what was in the envelope. Instead they found notes, written by ken, apparently an assignment for an anger management class. It was actually a journal about all the different ways that hed abused her. I have spit at shirlene. I have yelled at shirlene. I have pushed shirlene. There it was in his own hand, evidence she left for you to find . Yes. And suddenly the sisters truly believed their mom was sending secret clues that almost screamed open in case of death. Attempting to solve the mystery, they found a willing ally in Detective Cambra. One plan they came up with together . Secretly recording a phone call with ken. Tammie made the call from the Police Department. The strategy was for tammie to act friendly, supportive. Hello. Ken . Yeah. Hey, its tammie. Ken told tammie he was deeply concerned for shirlene. I love her. Its not the same without her here. I miss her very much. But ken also said he was suspicious of tammie and her sister. The feeling im getting is like im feeling like youre going to plan on ganging up on me. And it sounds like youre going to maybe sue me for manslaughter or something, or murder. Still, he spoke with tammie at length about the day. He said shirlene told him she took pills and seemed suicidal. She said she wanted to die . Yeah. She did Say Something like, its not working. Its not working. Its not working . Yeah, like for her to die. Shes saying, its not working. And then, after a pause, he volunteered something that shocked them all. I guess i dont want to say it. But she did say, choke me so i could die. She said that . Yeah. She said please choke me. Oh, ken, didnt you think at that point you should call the ambulance . No, because i thought she was just being disillusional. I was really scared. But he then returned to the Strange Point he made before. I havent choked her. Theres no, you know, choking marks around her neck. Right. You can have the doctors check that out. What a strange thing for hi he said a lot of strange things. Now, the girls felt they had to move very fast, while shirlene was on life support. As long as she was alive, they decided, they had the legal right to rummage through a garage in a house in California Shirlene had kept looking for evidence to use against ken. So they flew to the mainland. And thats where they were when ken gave consent to take Shirlene Off Life Support and she died. And i remember thinking and just bawling my head off again. So i was mortified. And i was devastated again that i wasnt there. At shirlenes funeral, according to Detective Nick Cambra, kens eulogy sounded like a wellprepared criminal defense. He started with that shirlene initiated sex the night before, that she was happy that they were together. And then he started he went on to the next day and how he tried to prevent her from dying. Shirlenes daughters were horrified. Now, they were fully determined to keep their promise to their mother, theyd need to ensure that ken was charged with her murder. Next to look at the case, prosecutor dan oyasato, who found kens remarks about strangulation very disturbing. And heres why. This was viewed as an overdose. Thats how this case went to the hospital. Thats what tiffany and tammie were thinking. Thats what the Police Department was thinking. And yet, as oyasato began to dig deeper, he found that ken talked about strangulation more than once. He brought it up with the Medical Examiners investigator and was basically telling them, this is not a strangulation case. In fact, said the prosecutor, ken tried to persuade the examiner not to do an autopsy. But, of course, there was one. The result took months but, sure enough, cause of death, said the Medical Examiner, brain damage due to ligature strangulation. When an Arrest Warrant was issued, Detective Cambra served it personally. Police arrested 45yearold Kenneth Wakisaka tonight. Prosecutors say he strangled his 52yearold wife last april. Tonight, Police Charged him with murder in the second degree. Howd he react . He said, nick, you know i didnt kill my wife. I didnt kill my wife. In 2002, two years after their mothers death, tammie and tiffany came back to hawaii. This time to the courthouse where ken wakisaka went on trial for murder. He took the life of another human being, and that human being was our mother. This was a murder by strangulation. It was Domestic Violence at its ultimate. In his opening statement, prosecutor dan oyasato quoted from kens own statements to accuse him of murder. Can you tell if a person has been strangled during autopsy . These are the words of the defendant to an investigator from the Medical Examiners office. In court the Medical Examiner repeated her opinion that shirlene was strangled, said she found Ligature Marks on her neck. And in court the prosecutor played a tape of that recorded phone call with tammie, in which, sure enough, ken brought up the idea himself. I guess i dont want to say it. But she did say, choke me so i could die. I really believe this was kens subconscious talking out. No one, not a soul, was thinking this was a strangulation case. Until he opened his mouth and until he brings this up. That made everybody suspicious. Every witness who testified as to having some contact with ken spoke about his unusual behavior. His focus was not on his wife. It was on other things. But theres always a but. Kens Defense Attorney, mal gillin, Accused Police and prosecutors of jumping to the wrong conclusions and rushing to judgment against ken. That Ligature Mark . Must have been made by the tube that lay on her neck while she was on life support. This wasnt a strangulation, he argued, wasnt a murder at all. As ken had said all along, shirlene took an overdose. Mrs. Wakisaka, because of her various Mental Disorders or defects, committed suicide. The trial lasted two weeks. The jury heard detectives, doctors, shirlenes daughters, of course. Ken himself chose not to take the stand. Howd it seem to be going . It seemed to be going well. As if, here, their promise would be kept. But life, as everybody knows, is full of surprises. Coming up the verdict would be swift, but the real stunner was what came after. Nobody stood up and said, i object, your honor. Its amazing. It haunts me. Ill tell you right now, it haunts me. Is it menopause or Something Else . The Menopause Journey has stages. Learn about yours with clearblue menopause stage indicator. That tracks your fsh hormone levels. Combining them with your cycle data. Whats your menopause stage . This is a hot flash. This is a hot flash. But this is a not flash. I got a good feeling theres big news for women going through menopause. Veozah a Prescription Treatment for moderate to severe Vasomotor Symptoms the medical name for hot flashes and night sweats. With hormonefree veozah, you can have fewer hot flashes, and more not flashes. Veozah is proven to reduce the number and severity of hot flashes, day and night. For some women, it can start working in as early as one week. Dont use veozah if you have cirrhosis, severe kidney problems, kidney failure, or take cyp1a2 inhibitors. Increased liver blood test values may occur. Your doctor will check them before and during treatment. Most common side effects include stomach pain, diarrhea, difficulty sleeping, back pain, and hot flashes. I got a good feeling ask your doctor about hormonefree veozah and enjoy more not flashes. Ask your doctor about hormonefree veozah heres why you should switch from chrome to duckduckgo. Duckduckgo is a browser you download to your mobile and desktop devices. Unlike chrome, the Duckduckgo Browser has privacy builtin. It comes with a private alternative to google search, which doesn■t spy on your searches, and it blocks cookies and creepy ads. And theres no catch. Its free. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you around. Hi im Frances Rivera heres join the millions of people taking back their privacy by Downloading Duckduckgo On Mobile and desktop today. Whats happening. A bipartisan delegation visit israel over the weekend. The group led by Lindsey Graham held a Press Conference in tel aviv promising to provide the israelis with everything they need to defend themselves against hamas. A funeral was held in detroit sunday for a synagogue president who is fatally stabbed. The Detroit Police say they have found no evidence linking the death of Samantha Woll to antisemitism. Now back to dateline. Now back to dateline welcome back to dateline, im andrea canning. Months before charlene died she asked her children to investigate should anything happen to her. Now, shorelines husband, can walkie talkie, was on trial for her murder. Prosecutors argued can strangled his wife. They argued that she overdosed. Ken was about to learn his fate, then a Chance Meeting would turn this case upside down. Here is Keith Morrison with the vow. Two Tenacious Daughters made a promise to their mother and were hoping to keep it. But now, it was up 12 other people, a jury. Were you in the court when the verdict was read . Yes. Tell me about that. What a huge relief to hear those words, we, the jury, find ken wakisaka guilty of murder in the second degree. It was amazing. Ken was well, surprised would be an understatement. I didnt expect this at all. But these two . I was a really happy girl. You know, im like the system worked. You know, it worked. Ken, who still maintained his innocence, was sentenced to life in prison. And that would be it, end of story. Except coincidence is such a strange and powerful thing, isnt it . Its a curious story the way you encountered this case, hmm . Yes. I was visiting another client who had been charged with murder. Defense attorney john edmunds doesnt normally find new cases in prison, but something seemed very credible about this particular client referral. He turned to me and he said, you know, my cell mate, whos out in the rec yard right now, doesnt belong here. Theres something really odd about his case. Would you look at it and see what you think . So edmunds agreed to at least have a look at the record. A thick file of transcripts, hundreds of pages. And late one night, he was sitting up in bed beside his wife, reading every word said at kens trial. And suddenly, there it was. Eureka. And i get to the final argument. And the prosecutor makes a direct comment on mr. Wakisakas failure to take the witness stand. This is what edmunds read. Its in prosecutor dan oyasatos final argument, his own words, who was alone with her . He was alone with her. He was there. He would know. If he doesnt tell us, we can only look to shirlene and see what her body tells us. The fifth amendment privilege against selfincrimination is a constitutional right that can be rendered meaningless if the prosecution gets to comment on it. And nobody stood up and said, i object, your honor . Its amazing. The trial lawyer said nothing. The judge said nothing. Those five words, if he doesnt tell us, would be the basis for edmunds appeal. The most serious offense is commenting on the failure to take the witness stand. But were supposed to be professionals, and were not supposed to make those kinds of mistakes. Did you write your Closing Argument . I write an outline. I commit it to memory. So, how did that line come out . Prosecutor dan oyasato said it was a mere slip of the tongue. What i was trying to do with that statement was actually transition from, if he doesnt know, then we need to look at her body. We need to look at the rest of the evidence to tell us the story. None of this seemed like such a big deal to shirlenes daughters. People file appeals all the time. I understood that. But i wasnt paying attention anymore because it was done. Oh, but it wasnt done. In 2003, a year after the trial and three years since shirlenes death, hawaiis Supreme Court handed down its decision. I got the call from dan oyasato, the prosecutor. And he said, the verdicts been overturned. Overturned. The guilty verdict the daughters so desperately wanted, pulled out from under them just like that. He goes, it wasnt the evidence of the case. It was on the 5th amendment. It was prosecutorial misconduct. Thats my fault. So he took responsibility for it right away . Instantly, instantly. The pain that he felt, because he worked so hard. It haunts me. Ill tell you right now, it haunts me, you know, that i did this. I have apologized, i dont know how many times to the girls because of my error. Still, said the sisters, the ruling didnt mean ken was innocent. Far from it. Even though the verdict was overturned, it was overturned on technicalities and not on any evidentiary issues. And they found a small silver lining. The Supreme Court said ken could be retried. And so, that left the door open for us to bring it back to trial. And we just needed to try again. And so, they took it upon themselves to pick up right where they left off. After all, a promise is a promise. I just remember thinking, okay, so we need to keep pushing. Ken got out on bail, but was still under indictment for murder. And they all waited for the new trial. And then, once again, john edmunds put on his reading glasses. And what i found again stunned me. Coming up a possible new witness with a very different story to tell. I couldnt believe it. I still dont believe it. When dateline continues. Detergents leave behind. Clean is good. Sanitized is better. Still living with odors . Get back in there and freshen instantly with febreze air mist. Febrezes Fine Mist Floats longer in the air to fight even your toughest odors. So long stinky smells and hello amazing freshness. Febreze air mist. Attention hearing loss sufferers do you struggle to hear loved ones . Do you have trouble keeping up with conversations . Do you listen to tv on max volume . Hearing loss affects your life. You miss out on important moments. You feel alone. Start hearing better today with rcas all new, advanced hearing aids. These arent cheap amplifiers that dont really work, and youll never have to pay thousands again. E fda now allows us to bring true, highquality hearing aids direct to you. Through rcas hearing america program, you can get your choice of two, stateoftheart, ultradiscrete hearing aids, listed at 1199. 00, now for a special, introductory price, or pay as little as only 29 a month, with Free Shipping theyre affordable. Theyre not the cost people associate with hearing aids. My oldfashioned ones cost me 5,000 and these actually work better. Engineered with advanced technology, the rcas are rechargeable, and have easy to use volume controls, built right in. And unlike so many others, with a push of a button, these hearing aids give you presets for better hearing. In a quiet setting, loud restaurants, or listening to music, you can adjust them to help you hear the best. Wherever you are theres no tools required and no batteries to fumble with when i first popped them in, i went, wow i hear everything. Simply slip in your rca hearing aids, and instantly hear your world again. Grampa, i love you. Never miss a moment again. You know rca. The quality is there. You cleared up decades of frustration in a second. Order now and well ship your pair of fda registered hearing aids in your choice of style with incredible savings. Pay as low as only 29 a month you get a 45day money back guarantee, free 24 7 us based support, a portable charging case, and Free Shipping. With rca, you can be hearing better in just days order yours now ken wakisaka, convicted of call this number or go to rcahearingaids. Com now killing his wife shirlene, was out on bail, guilty verdict overturned thanks to an error discovered by kens new Defense Attorney, john edmunds. But edmunds wasnt finished digging, and pretty soon he found another error, a big one, that occurred even before the trial. There was a witness that the grand jury asked to be called, whom the prosecution didnt call. Thing is, its an ironclad rule. If a grand jury asks to hear from a witness, the prosecution must comply. Didnt in this case. It wasnt a minor witness, either, said edmunds, but someone in a position to know a great deal about what really happened to shirlene. The wakisakas had an Upstairs Room that they rented out to a guy, and he had been there and seen a lot of what went on that morning. Though the grand jury didnt hear from the roommate, Detective Nick Cambra did. Cambra asked him, what did shirlene say to ken on the day she died . The defense provided us an excerpt of Detective Cambras interview with the witness. She was asking ken to come here, you know, be by my side. She did say she wanted to die in peace. Testimony that seemed very much in kens favor, testimony the grand jury that indicted him never heard. Defense attorney edmunds again went to court, and again won. So tell me, from a practical point of view, what did those victories mean for ken . Well, from a practical point of view, it meant that indictment got dismissed. Dismissed. As if hed never been charged in the first place. Ken was no longer free on bail. He was simply free. And now were back to a point as though the case never was brought in the first place. And thats frustrating. How do you get your head around it . How do you process all of it . How do you move forward every day . And how would they make the case against ken and persuade the state to start from scratch . Kens story had never changed, that shirlene killed herself, accidentally or on purpose, with an overdose of pills. Of course, the state still had evidence, like that pill bottle the sisters said they found stashed in the back yard of the condo, as if ken fed the pills to shirlene, then tried to hide the bottle from the police. But Defense Attorney edmunds could show ken didnt try to hide anything, that, in fact, he took paramedics to the Medicine Cabinet himself. They counted down tablets in a bottle of pills to see how many were left, and how many tried to figure out how many shed taken. Which is what she said she had done. And there was a potential new Defense Witness who knew shirlene well, didnt like her at all, in fact. And she has her own strange theory on what happened to shirlene. You get to know the people who are living in your you have to. Building, yeah. Marjorie collier managed the Condominium Complex Where Shirlene and ken lived. Unlike the daughters, marjorie considered shirlene the dominant, even abusive, force in the marriage. She used to tell me that ken was the complete opposite of her, that he was very quiet, and he would never argue with her or get into a fight with her. Hed leave the building. Yeah. Hed just go for a walk. Howd she feel about that . She didnt like it. Marjorie was on the scene april 5th, 2000, after tammie called 911, urging emts to check on her mother. I went over to talk to the emt. And he said, well, shes awake, and shes coherent enough to tell us that shes not coming with us. And i said, oh, okay. Remember, in the official emt report, it was ken who said shirlene didnt need to go to the hospital. But marjorie insisted an emt told her it was shirlene who refused to go. So, your memory of thats pretty clear . Im positive. When you heard that ken was accused of strangling her i was absolutely shocked. I couldnt believe it. I still dont believe it. But, what does she believe about how shirlene died . Well, just her speculation, of course. Its based on an incident that began, she said, when shirlene was making a fuss in the condo office. And she was being very pushy. And i went to shut the door, just to get her to go home, because i wasnt even open yet, and the door hit her arm. And she spilled her cup of coffee. The next thing marjorie knew a Police Officer was threatening to arrest her. And i said, for what . And he says, for abuse. I said, excuse me. And i looked at shirlene. And from her thigh, midthigh, all the way down to her feet, was burned, severely. Youre kidding. Burned, more burned than you get laying out in the sun all day. Was it from that coffee . Thats what she said it was. But the Police Officer told me one cup of coffee wont burn both those legs like that. Both legs were burned . Yeah, she burned her own legs. In that case, marjorie believed, shirlene was willing to hurt herself just to frame marjorie. So, when shirlene died . What i thought, honestly, was that it was another ploy, and she had tried to make it look as if he was trying to kill her, and she went too far and accidentally killed herself. I think that thats marjories perspective. Do i think that shes correct in her opinions . No, absolutely not. To shirlenes daughters, there was still no doubt about what really happened and what to do about it. I think your mother had a word, didnt she, that she liked. What was that word . Tenacity. I just had to keep going. And heres the thing about keeping going, by doing something, in the process, i was honoring her. Tiffany filled a suitcase with documents that some prosecutor might find useful, hauled it back and forth to prosecution meetings, pushing for action for years. Well, i kept going to hawaii for sure. Im, like, pardon, hi. Its me again. My mom whats going on with my moms case . By this time, dan oyasato no longer worked at the Honolulu County Prosecutors Office. And the prosecutor who took over the case seemed reluctant to go forward. But that wasnt going to stop shirlenes daughters, not for one minute. We had a guilty verdict. We need to move forward. We need to recharge. We need to reindict. We need to go back to trial. But, it turned out, a big surprise was coming, this time from the prosecution. Coming up a whole new theory of the case. A change for prosecutors. A challenge for that promise. How long are you prepared to do this . As long as it takes. We made a promise. Especially for those sudden gush moments. When your keys are in the door and your bodys like, its happening if youre worried about your protection, its not the right protection. Always discreet protects like no other. With double leak guards that help prevent gushes escaping from the sides. And a rapid dry core that locks in your heaviest gush quickly for up to zero leaks. And it contours, to everybody. Now this, is protection Always Discreet the protection we deserve best thing ive ever done. Thats what freddie told me. It was the best thing ive ever done, and really . Yes, without a doubt i dont have any anxiety about money anymore. Great people. Different people, thats for sure, and all of them had Different Reasons for getting a Reverse Mortgage, but you know what, they all felt the same about two things they all loved their home, and they all wanted to stay in that home. [announcer] if youre 62 or older and own your home, you could access your equity to improve your lifestyle. A reverse Mortgage Loan eliminates your monthly Mortgage Payments and puts taxfree cash in your pocket. Call the number on your screen. Why dont you call aag. And find out what a Reverse Mortgage can mean for you . [announcer] call right now to receive your free noobligation info kit. Call the number on your screen. Introducing finish ultimate. Engineered for the toughest conditions. Dry burnton stains. Old dishwashers. Very hard water. New finish ultimate, with cyclesync technology, helps deliver the ultimate clean. Heres why you should switch from chrome to duckduckgo. Duckduckgo is a browser you download to your mobile and desktop devices. Unlike chrome, the Duckduckgo Browser has privacy builtin. It comes with a private alternative to google search, which doesn■t spy on your searches, and it blocks cookies and creepy ads. And theres no catch. Its free. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you around. April 2014. Tiffany and join the millions of people taking back their privacy by Downloading Duckduckgo On Mobile and desktop today. Tammie returned to hawaii where they marked a painful anniversary, 14 years since their mother, shirlene, died. Its heartbreaking. Why do you say heartbreaking . Weve spent all these years trying to get justice. We made the promise to my mother that we would investigate, therefore it has to be, therefore you cant quit. The daughters thought theyd made good on their promise to find justice for their mother if anything happened to her, when shirlenes husband was convicted in 2002 of murder by strangulation. But that verdict was overturned in 2003. And then, kens original indictment was thrown out two years later. You thought maybe a few months youd be back in court . Not a few months. I thought within a few years. But the years just kept passing. Ken has moved on, though he still lives in the same condo. But tammie and tiffany say they cant move on, and they acknowledge its been hard on their husbands and children. I feel really bad for my family because its not their mother. They didnt make the promise i did. Because every time im not there someone else has to cover all the things that i normally do. Tiffany, especially, makes the trip to hawaii repeatedly, and kids and husband know they were on their own whenever she rolls out the suitcase stuffed with case papers. Still they pushed on. We will get a conviction. And i will do everything i can possibly do in order to make that happen. The case has dogged detective, nick cambra, too. Hes retired now, but he counts the years and wonders. Do you perceive enthusiasm in the Prosecutors Office to not at all. To go after this . Not at all. They would do so reluctantly . Yes. But why . If prosecutors won a conviction once, why not just do it again . At this point its not my decision. But what i can say is, provided the evidence was not suppressed and is still available, there is more than ample evidence to prove his guilt. Anticipating a new trial, Defense Attorney edmunds hired renowned forensic pathologist, michael baden. And asked him, what is your opinion . Was there strangulation or not . He said absolutely not. He said, this is just wrong. So the new prosecution hired its own experts, and, well, it didnt go as planned. The new prosecutor on the case said that they had one or two Forensic Pathologists who agreed with dr. Baden. They agreed that shirlene wasnt strangled. But these are prosecution experts. Did that surprise you . It did. Yeah. I dont think that they provided all the information that the expert needed in order to make that determination. The prosecution announced in court in 2010, it was abandoning the strangulation theory. The very theory that got ken convicted in the first place. What did you think when they just dropped that theory . I was shocked. Honestly, i was shocked. The prosecutor declined to talk with us, or share any information about the case. But in an email to the daughters, from january 2014, he said his boss, the chief Prosecuting Attorney referred to here by his initials kmk, gave the green light to go forward. Go forward with what . A whole new theory they called murder by omission. Whats your understanding of what murder by omission is . My understanding is that its a duty of a spouse or a parent to get medical help for someone who cant get help for themselves. And if they die because of that, then youve effectively committed murder. In the email, the prosecutor told the girls, he just needed one or more experts to give the opinion that wakisakas failure to perform his duty to provide timely medical care for shirlene caused her death. Despite abandoning the strangulation theory, the prosecutor, in his email, now said he might actually bring it back, along with murder by omission, for a possible new trial. Do you really think they will . Have they . Have they . No, they have not. Theyve done nothing. So, what stage are you at . Believe it when you see it . Absolutely. Prove me wrong. Show me that youre going to do something. Quit leading us on to believe that youre going to move forward with a case that weve been hanging onto for ten years. Defense attorney edmunds said he would knock down the prosecutions new Omission Theory by pointing out that ken did try to get help for shirlene by calling 911. So far, there has been no move to charge ken, and its not clear when, or if, there will be. Ken has maintained his innocence all these years, even though shirlenes daughters quest to prove him guilty goes on. Hes very troubled by it. Is he living under a cloud now . He feels he is. Hell never really be at peace. Now, more people recognize him on the street. Thats embarrassing. I miss her so much, tammie. Me, too. Call it a promise, a quest, an obsession. Her daughtersjourney isnt over. How long are you prepared to keep going with this . As long as it takes. I mean, you could be sitting here an old lady and, years and years from now, and nothing will have happened. We made a promise. We made a promise to our mom. It is with such purpose and such passion and such love that i do this. It is in honor of my mother. I dont care if its labeled obsession or crazy. Im doing this because i love her. And she deserves it. Thats all for this edition of dateline. Im andrea canning. Thanks for watching. Im craig melvin. Im craig melvin and im and im natalie morales. And this is dateline. Natalie morales and this is dateline. My mother called and said michelle is dead. How is that possible . A young mother found