Transcripts For MSNBCW Chris 20240703

As an example that the idf bomb deliberately, a hospital and killed 700 people. The longer that goes on, the more israel will be in peril for for their future, so, again, we should expect nothing else from hamas. Its a terrorist organization. Its dedicated to the destruction of israel and theyre going about it in a strategic matter. Does history tell us whether they care if Congress Approves aid to israel and that america stands behind, you know the movements that have been made by the u. S. Military that is in the region, that they stand behind israel . I think theres no question that were going to provide aid to israel. Massive financial resources. Were backing them up with a significant deterrent military forces. None of this will be contingent upon whether netanyahu does or does not conduct a land operation. Thats clearly got to be an israeli decision based on their own fundamental security assessment. General, its always good to have you on the program, we thank you, general Barry Mccaffrey for coming on the program. I want to go back to nbcs Kelly Cobiella, bring us up to date again. Reset, what do we know . So three sources are telling nbc news that two american hostages have, in fact, been released by hamas. We dont know much more than that. Hamas has released a statement claiming that theyve released a mother and daughter. Were trying to confirm that as well as find out where these two hostages are. Remember, this gaza strip is not a large place, but when you talk about finding two people and bringing them out, its very large. Its a territory about the size of the city of philadelphia. Its about 25 miles long. We dont know these two hostages were held. We dont kw if they were in the northern part of the gaza strip this has been absolutely pommelled by israeli air strikes over the past 14 days or in the south. The only way for civilians, anyway, to get out or the only hope for civilians to get out is through the Southern Crossing through into egypt, and that crossing, the Rafah Crossing has been closed now, you know, since the war began with obvious diplomatic efforts over the past week or so to get it reopened. Again, if these hostages have, in fact, been released which is what our sources are saying, where are they, are they still in gaza . Are they making their way down to the Rafah Crossing. We know there are aid workers in gaza. United nations workers in gaza. Are they with an aid group. Have they been turned over to, for example, the red cross. All of these questions have yet to be answered. Chris, theres an awful lot of reporting in israeli media right now about this. A lot of it we cant substantiate right now. But these are questions that we continue to ask and were right to get some answers. Weve got calls into the red cross and others trying to find out exactly where this mother and daughter are and when they will be released from the gaza strip, chris. Kelly cobiella, thank you. I know we will come back to you in tel aviv as we learn more. Joining us now is former ndc bureau chief, Martin Fletcher, you and i worked together for years. You know this region, and you know the governments extremely well. You just revealed last night, talking to our Stephanie Ruhle, were all very sorry to hear that two of your wifes Family Members are among the hostages. What if anything do you know about this new information that were learning, martin . Well, we are hoping that the two women released are, in fact, my relatives. In fact, israel tv channel 11 has just given the names, and they are judith and natalie, who are the members of my family who were kidnapped. If this is true, its wonderful news for our family, but of course thats one family of many, and were hoping of course this will just be the beginning of a wider release, but we dont know that yet, certainly its too early for us to say. The last i heard from my relatives, they had not been told officially who was released, but we do know that the people released were american, they were a mother and daughter, and as far as we know, my family, were the only American Mother and daughter being held hostage. Were praying, hopefully but worried about everyone else. Would it be your expectation, one way or the other, your family would be informed exactly whats going on here . Do you have to wait for the state Department Briefing . Whats your expectation, martin . I dont think it has anything to do with the state Department Briefing but probably, you know, the fact theyve been released, again, i keep saying if its true, but apparently it is true, doesnt mean theyre now safe and free and in the hands of israel. They may be on a road in gaza on their way somewhere. Theyve probably been taken across the border into egypt, as a matter of fact. I doow tt, but across the border in the south. So its maybe too early to actually totally commit. Its surprising to me, i must say, they wouldnt have been in touch with the family. They may have been already in touch with the family, and i i havent heard that yet. Its possible im in touch with them. Theyve got more important things on their mind. Based on your experience in the region, martin, what would be going on behind the scenes, if, indeed, this happened or is in the process of happening, that hamas is turning over to americans . Theyre not turning them over for nothing. Presumably theres been some kind of a deal, and hopefully the beginning of a wider deal. There was talk earlier about the possible early Prisoner Exchange of women and children. That kind of disappeared from the public discourse, but maybe because there was a secret to whats going on in the background. Israel holds 30 Women Security prisoners in its jail and about 120, i believe, it is, minors, young people. So theres about 30 women that israel holdings, about 120 minors, and theyre available, if you like, to be swapped for prisoners, so maybe releasing these two american women is the beginning of a wider Prisoner Swap. We just have to wait and see and hope. Tell us a little bit of the background, if you will. My recollection from listening to your interview last night with Stephanie Ruhle is that natalie and judith were visiting for a Family Members birthday, that is right, and then what happened . What do we know . They were visiting their grandmother. It was her 85th birthday, in the kibbutz, one attacked immediately, and one of the kibbutz seen because it was the furthest away from the center of the country. They took the longest to get help, so they were under attack for six, seven, eight hours before anybody with a gun from the israeli side came to help. So many people were massacred in that village, well over a hundred. And many more were taken hostage into gaza. And i should emphasize one thing, although hopefully this is the end of the drama, close to the end of the drama for natalie and judith, my cousin who has been keeping me informed whats going on was at a funeral today for another member of his family from that same kibbutz who was killed by the terrorists and that person who was killed, his wife is also a hostage in gaza. So the tragedy is not over even for my family. Theres another hostage, and this is the story for many families in israel, and obviously hoping that some kind of Prisoner Swap will take place before an Israeli Ground invasion. This is a window of opportunity, if you like. Once israel invades gaza with a hundred or 200,000 soldiers, theres going to be no room for a Prisoner Swap at that point. Any negotiating that is going on now to save or swap hostages for palestinian prisoners in israeli jails has a very limited time to proceed before israels Ground Invasion begins because that would be the end of any negotiations. We were just talking, i dont know if you had a chance to hear general Barry Mccaffrey, and he said it wouldnt surprise him if the next thing is they release ten hostages as hamas tries to buy time. The question is how much time can there be before israeli patience wears out . Hes right. I didnt hear it but the general is right. You know, this is all part of Psychological Warfare and hamas has been very adept at everything its done. They are probably adept at this too. Thats a possibility. They release prisoners in dribs and drabs, in order to delay a Ground Invasion. In one sense, that would play into israels handles. Although israeli wants to destroy hamas, they need time to gather intelligence, and thats what theyre working on. Theres been no Israeli Ground invasion so far. Israel needs to gather intelligence and probably reassess the intelligence it had before. If they fail to anticipate the hamas attack, they must be looking at the intelligent information they have and say wait a minute, may we got that wrong too. They must be reassessing their intelligence, they need time to do that, and any delay that hamas may think is good for itself, may also be good for israel. Anything that delays this Ground Invasion, and gives time for some kind of negotiated settlement, i would imagine, is a good thing. I know this is going to sound like a very obvious question, but im going to ask it because i think that there is a need for people to try to even put themselves in the place of a family like yours, and i know you have been in touch with your family, can you even begin to describe, martin, the unimaginable pain, fear, terror, of being in this kind of situation . I cant describe it, to be honest with you. I mean, i can only take it in a bigger sense that after the holocaust, israel always said, you know, the phrase was always never again. Well, guess what, it just happened again. In gaza. To those families. One thousand israelis tortured, beheaded, bodies burned, killed, defenseless. You know, this is a problem. This is a mini genocide, so israelis are feeling vulnerable. The whole point of the state of israel was to have somewhere safe for jews to go and to depend on their army and their government. And there was a contract, if you like, between the people of israel and their government. When Israel Occupied gaza strip in 1967, they encouraged people to go down to live on the edge of gaza just inside israel, to establish communities in order to create what they called an envelope around gaza. And the idea was you go and live there, farm, live a quiet life, well protect you. That was the deal. Similar deal on the northern border with lebanon. And people trusted the government, and for a very long time, israels army and intelligence secret services were considered to be among the best in the world, and they probably still are but they failed totally and miserably to protect their people in the south, and after this is all over theres going to be an investigation into what went wrong. And heads, presumably will roll. The Chief Of Staff of the army said im responsible. The secret Service Responsible for gaza said i am responsible. The Prime Minister hasnt. So well see what happens there. But that sense of vulnerability, i think, is the key take away for israelis today. They cant trust the government, and government and army has to restore that sense of trust. Otherwise people will melt away from that part of the country. If i may say, martin, as someone who spent many many days with you in tel aviv and elsewhere across israel, particularly in the late 90s and early 2000s, youre not just a spectacular reporter, but such a great human being. Our thoughts are with you, your family, we love you. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us. Well keep our fingers crossed for obviously not just your two Family Members, but all of the hostages. Thank you, martin, appreciate it. Thank you. I want to bring in michael oheren, former ambassador to the u. S. I want to start with the word that two american hostages have been freed. What do you make of this move by hamas . Whats your impression . Were relieved for the family. I was on that broadcast earlier where he mentioned them both, and it was very moving, very disturbing, so relieved for that family, and we are also praying for the other hostages and hoping they will be released. Having said that, hamas is very smart. They released these two hostages, i think probably because martin talked about them on the news and also because they are americans, and that makes headlines, certainly. They released a video of another hostage, mia sham, the other day because shes a french israeli citizen, duel citizen that had impact in france. Theyre playing to a foreign audience. Theyre not releasing people who do not have Duel Nationality or american or foreign nationality. Theyre going to play for time, try to draw a wedge between israel and its western allies, particularly its American Allies and play for time. Time is not what israel has. We are at maximum mobilization in this country. About 360,000 soldiers have been mobilized. This is the most productive sector of our economy, young women and men in their 30s, and 20s. Beyond that, the people of israel expect this army to go in and uproot and destroy hamas. For three very cogent and pressing reasons. One is that if hamas, if we go back to the status quo empty, the southern part of the country, which is 62 of the country, will become uninhabitable. Nobody would go back and live there anymore. We have to restore our deterrence power. We are extremely vulnerable, we have to restore that deterrence power by uprooting hamas. The third point was the one that martin articulated elegantly and accurately, the covenant between the state of israel, founded three years to the date after the holocaust on the promise it would protect the jewish people from a second holocaust and that covenant has been impaired if not threaded, and that has to be repaired as well. Theres no way the covenant can be restored under the shadow of warheads, that has to end. Theres no way israel cannot interact. I know there may be growing pressure on israel to give more time for hostage release, give more time for qatari and mediators, the qataris were involved in this mediation to release the mother and daughter. We have our own clocks and that clock is not going to tip indefinitely. Let me ask you about the idea of the destruction of hamas because, you know, i was talking to martin about the time i spent in israel, and more than 20 years ago, i happened to have an interview with the cofounder of hamas. And it happened to be on the day there was a bombing, Many University students died, including americans. I would say not only was he unapologetic in the interview we did just hours after the bombing i remember it well, yes. Somewhat joyful. He seemed pleased that the idea that american students, Innocent Americans have died. Now, he ultimately was killed but the question a lot of people have is the destruction of hamas possible, and thats a question im asking you now, mr. Ambassador. Its an excellent question, and we can destroy hamass military capabilities. We can certainly degrade its ranks or terrorists. We can kill its leaders. When you ask me whether israel can kill the idea of hamas, i will say absolutely not. The idea of hamas is the same idea as al qaeda, hezbollah, these are jihadest organizations that seek to create a caliphate. Thats their theology. The only difference between hamas and isis and al qaeda is hamas seeks to create the caliphate first by destroying israel. Its a staged issue. The issue in gaza is divorced are from say the Peace Process with the palestinians in judea and the west bank. Every time we have a Peace Process, and i go back, i was an adviser to robbie in the 90s. The hamas comes out and Mitch Mcconnell kills us but they kill the palestinians, and taking over gaza, hamas threw several hundred palestinians who were loyal to the palestinian authorities threw them off roofs. They are antipeace, as would be isis and al qaeda. We cannot exterminate the idea but together with our allies in the free thinking world, we will work to defend ourselves and hopefully create a situation in the middle east and elsewhere where people, particularly young people will have an alternative visions and alternative values, and alternative opportunities that would lead them away from that type of vicious theology. Former ambassador michael oren, i appreciate your time, sir. Thank you so much for being on the program. Thank you. Here at home, we have more Breaking News, jim jordan is no longer running for speaker of the house, according to our own ali vitali. Well get the details to you right after this. You right after this Limu Emu Doug [bell ringing] and doug says, you can customize and save hundreds on Car Insurance with liberty mutual. he hits his mark center stage and is crushed by a baby grand piano. Are you replacing me . With this guy . Customize and save with liberty bibberty. He doesnt even have a mustache oh, look a bibu. [limu emu squawks. ] only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. My frequent heartburn had me taking antacid after antacid all day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. For one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. One pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. Dry skin is sensitive skin, too. And its natural. Treat it that way with aveeno® daily moisture. Formulated with nourishing, prebiotic oat. Its clinically proven to moisturize dry skin for 24 hours. Aveeno® on an afternoon of Breaking News, theres more still. The latest from capitol hill where we just learned jim jordan is no longer running to be speaker of the house. This followings this mornings third failed vote of the full house, and then just moments ago, a Secret Ballot of House Republicans Behind Closed Doors. I want to bring in nbcs ryan nobles on capitol hill and elise jordan, former aide in the george w. Bush white house and msnbc political analyst. Well, ryan, what a day. What happened . Reporter well, what happened was this morning after jim jordan lost the third ballot on the floor of the House Of Representatives, he called all the republicans into a closed door meeting here in the bowels of the capital, and asked for a Secret Ballot, up and down vote, do you want me to be your candidate as speaker of the house, and through the private ballot, the republicans in the conference expressed their feelings, 112 republicans said, no, we dont want you to continue on as our speaker nominee, while 86 said, yes, we want to stick with you. As a result, jim jordan backed out, said he would no longer put his name in as a speaker designee, and theyre basically back to square one. The plan now is that all of these members have the opportunity, any one member of the conference has the opportunity to submit their name as a potential candidate as speaker sunday night. Plan to hold a Candidate Forum in washington monday night at 6 30 with the possibility of taking yet another nominee to the house floor as soon as tuesday morning. But we have to keep in mind when we talk about this, chris, if another candidate emerges and if that candidate is successful in winning over the majority of votes inside a closed door republican conference, they have to get 217 votes on the floor. Theres still no one that has emerged in that space. We have heard a few names. Let me interrupt you because while you were speaking, kevin hern from oklahoma told nbc news his name will be put in. Tell us about him. Tell us about, as you were saying, other possibilities. Reporter yeah, so kevin hern who actually had floated his name a couple of other opportunities as potentially a candidate for speaker when he was pitching himself as a consensus candidate, hes a conservative. He would definitely be in line with some of the hard right members of the party at this point. The other name being floated. Hes confirmed to Julie Tsirkin hes in the race, austin scott, the back bencher from georgia who surprised everyone by putting his name against jim jordan a couple of days ago, and was able to collect more than 80 votes. Theres jack bergman, a Senior Member of the caucus who has pitched himself as a candidate that would only serve until the end of this particular congress as kind of a bridge builder, someone to just get them to the next stage of this conversation. Not somebody thats interested in the job long term. Those are three names we have right now. Theres a whole host of potential names that could be bantied about over the weekend. Just names people talked about. Tom emmer of minnesota whos currently the republican majority whip. You have the name Jodi Arrington who runs the Budget Committee from texas, the largest rendell gas station. Largest delegation. From louisiana, a conservative, a lot of support amongst conservatives. His name has been approached as a potential speaker candidate. Any of these republican candidates could emerge. I expect theres going to be a lot of quiet, closeddoor conversations over the weekend amongst the members to see if any one of these names could get to the magic number. Is the idea of expanding the power of Patrick Mchenry off the table . Reporter that seems to be a Dead On Arrival prominence and for a number of reasons, chris. The conservatives in the party are not in favor of that. They are afraid that if you grant those powers that theyll end up being indefinite and never be able to get that control back. That would require democrats to be involved in the process, and any sort of deal that you would make with democrats would then force you to lose more republican votes. And also, theres the idea that Patrick Mchenry may not be interested in doing Something Like that longterm. For a variety of reasons, the next step is trying to find another name to get the job permanently, and thats at least the next effort theyre going to have in trying to bring this whole mess thats dragged on for more than two weeks to an end at some point. Ryan nobles, thank you for that. Elise, its day 17. Mess may be an understatement for what has been going on on capitol hill, especially given the stakes, whats happening in israel, whats happening in ukraine. I have lost track of the days. Its between three and four weeks before the government doesnt have funding anymore. What do you make of where the House Republican caucus is right now . Right now, theres no consensus candidate. Its that simple. You heard the smorgasbord of of candidates that can emerge. Steve scalise, what if he reemerged and shored up the votes and took it to the floor. All bets are off. You look at this weekend, its galling and a middle finger to the American People that they couldnt stay and work it out. Taxpayers are told their money needs to be spent now on pressing issues and yet you dont see that kind of urgency in the house. There at least was a message, right, it was delivered very clearly after the third vote by a lot of people on camera saying he needs to understand that hes not going to be speaker of the house. Now, there are an awful lot of people who wouldnt say that, right, because they were going one by one, you had to get on the record. At the last record, 194 people did vote for him, but in the end, only 86, elise. When it was a Secret Ballot. It is breathtaking, and it mirrors how so Many Republican lawmakers, under their breath, not on the road, they will talk about how they know they arent governing, how they dont like donald trump. They disapprove of the maga extremism and yet they wont do it in public. Theyre too scared. We saw over the past 24 hours, when the republican lawmakers who opposed jim jordans candidacy, they got Death Threats to their house. We wonder why more people dont want to step up quality candidates and run for congress. This is a big reason why. Its become so personal. Extremism has taken over in the republican party, and we saw na told in. And we see it in in chaos that we cant have a speaker o. House. All right. I want to bring in nbc capitol hill Correspondent Ali Vitali Who first gave us this information. What are the conversations youre having, what can you tell us . Reporter none of them good. Since i have been walking up and down the hallway, since i reported that jim jordan lost the ballot, i have spoken to dozens of angry members. Some of them furious that jordan was deposed Behind Closed Doors. Otherwise furious that theyre not staying to continue to work the weekend, and theres one or two, just sounding a note of optimism that someone, anyone from within the ranks of this republican conference could garner the 217, or whatever the magic number is, to become speaker of the house. They have an entire weekend to think about it. More candidates are saying they want to throw their hats into the wing. And congresswoman victoria spartz talking about a lot of tough cookies which of the tough cookies in the conference would do a good job. Im very open minded, i always am. Well see, we have several problem nominees. We dont give enough time to make decisions, and may be more forceful this time, and i have been forceful to make sure we actually do have 217 before we go to the floor. Reporter my understanding from my reporting is that in that room, the secret ball lofs ballot was a simple question, should jim jordan continue as nominee. It was a yes or no answer. Clearly the majority of the members saying no on a Secret Ballot. I was looking for whether or not this was going to be public or private. Private to me seemed like the fastest way to get to the current predicament that the party finds themselves in, going back to the well and see who wants to become speaker. What congresswoman spartz, they want to make sure they can get to the 217 vote Behind Closed Doors before they take this to the floor. They want to save whoever comes next the public embarrassment. I dont know that thats possible. A weekend going home could be enough to shake some things loose. I think theres a real recognition from everyone in this party that this majority is broken right now. They are dysfunctional. They are not able to elect the person kwhol lead them, who will bring the house back to order and back to some kind of productivity and progress, and theyre doing it against a backdrop of great urgency, both domestically of Government Funding deadline looming in the next few weeks. That puts them on a time crunch here, and of course the ongoing situation in israel and ukraine where aid to those countries is a Central Point of focus for the white house, for the senate, operating on their own island now quite frankly. Theyre the branch of the building thats actually working. I really just dont think we can underscore enough, chris, how frustrated and angry so many members are. They said when jordan said to the front of the room, ill see, ill drop out at speaker. He was in the words of one congressman, magnanimous. Thats all you can be when youre deposed by your conference. I dont know many people who think jordan is going to go quietly. He has ties to people like former Speaker Mccarthy and others. He was always a big presence within this country, and i think hes probably going to continue to be that. Thank you so much for that reporting. Ali vitali come back if you hear any more. Extraordinary work as always. Elise, before we got the news that jordan was dropping out, Congressman Matt Gaetz who started all of this leading the ouster of Kevin Mccarthy had this to say. It seems as though the 20 or so holdouts against jim jordan have no goals, have no asks, have no objectives, other than to see the eight of us suffer some consequence for having removed mccarthy, so we have made them an offer. What these holdouts need is a pound of our flesh. Were willing to give it to them in order to see them elect jim jordan speaker. Well, first of all, 20 holdouts turned out to be a lot more than that. In the end, what does the matt gaetz crowd do now . Matt gaetz is going to try to do exactly what he was doing a minute ago. Talking to a gaggle of reporters and getting attention for himself. Its about attention. Its not about governing. And thats why his words are so ironic because you saw that Secret Ballot, how republicans want to govern and they want to start legislating, and the process has been hijacked by extremists. And i just want to update folks. We mentioned this before, but now we are getting, again, confirmation that hes going to take action by the end of the day. Austin scott of georgia is one of the folks whos going to be put their name n along with kevin hern of oklahoma. Thanks to elise jordan for that. President biden called for aid to israel and ukraine. You heard ali talk about that. Did he make his case Strong Enough to the American People . . Botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start. Its the 1 prescribed branded chronic migraine treatment. So far, more than 5 million botox® treatments have been given to over Eight Hundred And Fifty Thousand chronic migraine patients. Effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or Muscle Weakness can be signs of a lifethreatening condition. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Dont receive botox® if theres a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. In a survey, 92 of current users said they wish theyd talked to their doctor and started botox® sooner. So, ask your doctor if botox® is right for you. Learn how abbvie could help you save on botox®. Take a moment to pause and ask, why did you get vaccinated against Pneumococcal Pneumonia . I help others. But i need to help protect myself. Honestly . I couldnt afford to get sick. I want to be there for this one. I cant if im sick. Pneumococcal pneumonia is a potentially serious bacterial lung disease. You may be at risk if youre 19 to 64 with certain chronic conditions. Or if youre 65 or older. Dont pause a moment longer. Ask your doctor or pharmacist about getting vaccinated against Pneumococcal Pneumonia today. The right age for neutrogena® retinol . Thats whenever you want it to be. It has dermproven retinol that targets vital cell turnover, evens skin tone, and smooths fine lines. With visible results in just one week. Neutrogena® retinol tourists tourists that turn into scientists. Tourists taking photos that are analyzed by ai. So researchers can help life underwater flourish. If we want a more viable future for our kids, we need to find more sustainable ways of doing things. Americas plastic makers are investing billions of dollars in new technologies and creating Plastic Products that are more recyclable. Durable. And dependable. Our goal is a cleaner, healthier planet for generations to come. For a better tomorrow, were focused on making plastics better today. So today the key question for the white house is did americans buy President Bidens prime time argument that israel and ukraines success is vital to u. S. National security. I know these conflicts can seem far away. Its natural to ask, why does this matter to america. History has taught us when terrorists dont pay a price for their terror. When dictators dont pay a price for their aggression, they cause more chaos and death and more destruction. American leadership is what holds the world together. American alliances are what keep us, america safe. American values are what make us a partner that other nations want to work with. To put all of that at risk if we walk away from ukraine, we turn our backs on israel is just not worth it. David sanger of the New York Times writes the twin wars which mr. Biden has chosen to insert the United States have brought out a passi and clarity to the president. To m bidens mind, this has been the moment he has trained for his entire political cee he seems determined to prove that for all the ctiques that the United States is a vided, declining power, it remains the only nation that can mold events in a world of predictable mayhem. The president also had a practical purpose for his speech, asking congress to approve a sweeping 105 billion National Security package. It includes 61. 4 billion for ukraine, 14. 3 billion for israel, 2 billion for the indopacific, including taiwan, and 6. 4 billion for the u. S. Southern border. Joining us now, jim messina, former White House Deputy Chief Of Staff under president obama, and former Campaign Manager of obamas 2012 reelection campaign. Its always good to see you. Look, its a climb for this president. Polls suggest that support among americans for greater financial involvement in these two wars is far from universal. Support for continuing to arm kyiv has dropped significantly since the start of the war. Do you think realistically President Biden made any progress last night, convincing americans that these wars are in their interests . I do, chris. I think this was joe biden at his absolute best. I love the article you put on the screen. I think its exactly right. This is the moment joe biden has been waiting for. This is the long time former head of the Senate Foreign relations committee. This is the guy who knows each one of these World Leaders by first name, and has known them for decades. This is his moment, and i thought last night he laid this out. I was watching focus groups in the midwest when he was doing this speech, and people understand this is the joe biden they voted for, and you know, campaigns are in the end about contrast, about choices, and it cant just be any more perfect for team biden to have him on national tv being the leader everyone needs, while the House Republicans are literally melting to the ground. I mean, chris, these guys cant agree on free beer. They cant agree on who their leader is. So this choice, this moment of clarity, i think is just incredibly important for him, and for his Electoral Prospects next year. You have been inside the rooms where decisions are being made. What are the conversations, including, how do you navigate a stalled House Of Representatives when we know how many priorities there are for this president , both domestically and foreign . I mean, weve mentioned this multiple times in this hour. Theres also this little thing about having enough money to fund the government three or four weeks from now. Yeah, good luck with that if they cant even get a speaker. I mean, i think if youre a white house right now, you sit back and say, who are we negotiating with . Who are we going to sit down and cut this deal with. Mainstream washington would love mchenry stay for a while to be able to cut deals. The House Republicans dont seem to want to do anything sane. If youre team biden, you play off this contrast, to your point, chris, eventually what the country needs is a functioning Opposition Party who can do really easy stuff like passing continuing resolutions. I worked in the hill for 15 years before i went to the white house, those were the easy things, not the hard things. These supplemental bills like biden set up last night, those are the hard things, trying to negotiate those, and we cant get the lights turned on and the doors open in the house right now. For team biden to sit back and wait and continue to do what he did last night, which is take his case to the American People. I was talking to a foreign leader, a president of his country this morning who said to me, this is the joe biden, this is the american leader we all need around the world. And thats who i think you saw last night. You do have the reality, and you know this better than anybody, jim, of a very gerrymandered congress, right, so these folks, most of them, theyre not facing any real consequences if they mess it up again, if this drags on even longer. I wonder what your thought is about the fact that President Bidens Approval Ratings have been stuck very low, high 30s, low 40s. Did you get any insights from inside that focus group about whats going on in the minds of the American People because when we dont have any polls since you spoke last night, and a lot can happen between now and next november, whats going on with that . Voters are looking and saying lets go back to square one, lets tell us whos looking out for the economy, tell us what is our choice next year, thats what voters want to hear, and thats what team biden is attempting to do. Biden is on the air in the United States, with an ad talking about that. You and i have talked about Mineless Taste for polling. This time during Barack Obamas reelection, people thought he had no chance to get reelected. Nate silva said he had a 17 chance to win reelection, and he won handily. You dont look at the polls, you focus on what you have to do, which is what they did last night. Continue to message the American People about what theyre doing, why its important, and why the steps hes taken are the right steps, and remember, these swing voters havent started to Pay Attention yet. Theyre waiting to see who the republican nominee is. Youre not suggesting its going to be anyone besides donald trump, are you . No, i think thats who we are going to run against, and i think thats great for the democrats but were 380 days before this election, and anything could happen, and these voters just arent really watching this choice yet. Jim messina, its always good to talk to you, thank you so much for coming on. Appreciate it, have a good weekend. I want to go back to the other Breaking News we had at the beginning of this program, which is that dramatic about face, former Trump Campaign attorney, switching his plea, pleading guilty to a felony count, the third trump codefendant in the Georgia Election case to plead guilty. Again, the first to plead to a felony, and heres the important point for donald trump, one of his codefendants, he has agreed to testify. Msnbc anchor katie phang is following this for us. What does all of this mean for the case against the former president or what at least might it mean . Well, in the immediate sense, there are 16 codefendants, judge scott mcafee indicated he wanted to include the speedy demand trial before he addressed that trial date for the remaining 16. Now that both chesend powell have taken a plea, you can reasonably anticipate judge mcafee calling a hearing to be able to set that future trial date. When will that happen . Things are moving quickly as you have seen, chris, and so i think youll see a trial date pretty soon in 2024. Im sorry, i need to interrupt. Were getting more details now. We have a special report. The two women released, the two people released are related to our colleague and form every Tel Aviv Bureau chief Martin Fletcher. Martin is joining us now. Martin, this is obviously incredible news for your family. Tell us what you know, how you learned of this, and any other details you can. Well, to be honest, the things are changing so quickly. Theres so much confusing information coming from all sources. My wife has been in touch with her family directly in israel, and shes been told that the hostages are now with the red cross inside israel. And thats as much as we know. I dont know whether the family has been officially informed. I would imagine they have been, but i havent heard that directly. But my wife has been in touch with the family. The hostages with the red cross, inside israel, obviously a huge sigh of relief, and at the same time, concern that theres so many more hostages, and the question being, is this the beginning of a Prisoner Swap of some kind. As youre speaking, martin, were showing some of the photographs of your relatives on the left side of the screen, can you tell us for people who may not be familiar, who they are, how theyre related to you and your wife. Evanston, illinois. , from they are my cousins sons wifes family. So its not a very close relationship, but were a tight knit family like many families, and you dont have to be a close relative to be concerned about your Family Members. Theyre not people that i know well. Ive met them a few times at family events, weddings and things like that. I cant speak about who they really are in terms of their personalities and their characters. I can tell you one thing, the families rallied around them in an extraordinary manner hoping that this would happen, and the fact that it actually happened is a miracle. Its an incredible miracle for your family here, martin. And i know that it sounds like details are coming in sort of piecemeal here and there, with lots of changes, but do you have any insight into the circumstances of their release . Any indication of how this actually happened . No, i dont. Presumably, its part of some kind of deal. I mean, nothing happens in this part of the World Without a quid pro quo, so for hamas to suddenly release two people, i dont know what provoked that, was it a response to publicity, a response to President Bidens speech, a calculated plan, can could be a combination of those things. There was a talk about a Prisoner Swap, women and children, of the hostages, being swapped. Israel holds 30 women and about 120 young people, minors, so it may be part of that. But you know one thing ive got to point out, and i hate to throw cold water on things, its not over for my family. This morning, one cousin was buried this morning. Also killed in kibbutz in the south, and his wife is also a hostage, and still a hostage in gaza. So, you know, this is like crazy how much is happening at the same time. I just hope its part of a larger Prisoner Swap, and that more prisoners will be released, and, you know, theres a small window of opportunity. Once israels Ground Invasion begins, if, indeed, it does, i couldnt imagine any negotiations would come to a sudden halt. Im going to ask you to stand by for a second. Ill let you check your phone. I want to bring in nbc news foreign correspondent, Josh Lederman live in israel, what other details are we learning here . We are awaiting a briefing from the Israeli Military really at any moment. In the meantime were going to come back live from msnbc. We wanted to get Martin Fletcher to you because it is his wifes relatives and, wow, just to listen to him talk about, first of all reporter im afraid i cant hear you. Im so sorry. Did we lose Kelly Cobiella . Kelly, are you there . Reporter chris, ive got, yeah, ive got you, chris. Great. No, we were just listening to Martin Fletcher, and obviously this is very much a split screen moment for his family. Obviously relieved, probably joyous that the fact that judith and Natalie Renan has been released. One Family Member is being held hostage, and another is being buried. Two americans, from evanston, illinois, who had been there for a Birthday Party for their grandmother . Reporter yeah, so their relatives told lester holt last woke about just what happened on saturday, october the 7th, that they were staying in a guest house. They barricaded themselves into a safe room when they realized that something had gone wrong. They heard gunshots, explosion in a room next to the safe room, and then their communications basically went dark at about 12 18 in the afternoon that saturday, and their family very much believed that they had been kidnapped. In fact, israeli officials had told them, having been at that guest house, it appeared from looking at the scene that they had been taken by hamas, and now this just incredible news today that they have been released. Martin fletcher, our colleague, said that they are with the red cross, the idf, Israeli Defense forces, confirming that they are in fact in israel. We dont know how they managed to get from gaza to israel, if they were handed to the red cross, and then escorted back here into this country. We know because we have been talking about this, chris, now, for days that there are only really a couple of ways in and out of gaza right now, one is the crossing has been closed since the Terrorist Attacks on october 7th that. As crossing taken over by hamas in those attacks and retaken by the israelis and closed ever since, and theres the crossing in the south into egypt, but if judith and natalie are, in fact, in israel, then, you know, its possible that they were taken into egypt, and then brought back into israel. We simply dont know the answers to these questions right now. I think we need to wait a little while to get clarity from the idf, from the red cross, if, in fact, they were involved, as martin and his family seemed to have been told. So a lot of details still coming out. I should say that hamas has released a statement, and the Israeli Government repeatedly tells us when you hear a statement from hamas, dont believe everything you hear. You cant necessarily take them at their word. They have released a statement saying they released these two hostages, americans, a mother and a daughter for humanitarian reasons. We dont know the full story, we dont know if theres some sort of deal or Prisoner Swap in the works. Were hoping to hear more details as the evening unfolds, chris. Kelly cobiella, with details on that news, that two americans hostages have been released, but perhaps 200 more are being held by hamas. Kelly, thank you, and that is going to do it for us on this very busy friday afternoon. Our breaking News Coverage will continue with Katy Tur Reports right after this break. Reports right after this break at over 13,0 00 us school districts, which have become top targets for Ransomware Attacks. But theres never been a reported Ransomware Attack on a chromebook. Which is why thousands of schools like the fairfieldsuisun Unified School District switched to google tools for education. So they can focus on teaching and 22,000 students can focus on learning, knowing that their data is secure. listen, your deodorant just has to work. I use secret aluminum free. Just swipe and it lasts all day. Secret helps eliminate odor, instead of just masking it. And hours later, i still smell fresh. Secret works ohhh yesss. all toooo youuuuu sean i wish for the amazing new iphone 15 pro jason sean do you mean this one the one with titanium . Its so light. Dont touch it. Maybe stealing wishes from the birthday boy is not your best plan switch to verizon and get iphone 15 pro on them. sean what . jason yup, and on an Amazing Network sean and i dont have to ruin anymore Birthday Parties jason yeah, that ship has sailed. Lets go get you the iphone. Here we go, come on hon. vo get iphone15 pro, apple tv 4k and 6 months of apple one. All three on us. Only on verizon. [sneeze] dude you coming . Alkaseltzer plus powermax gels cold flu relief with more concentrated power because the only thing dripping should be your style. Plop plop fizz Fizz Winter Warriors with alkaseltzer plus. Limu emu doug [bell ringing] and doug says, you can customize and save hundreds on Car Insurance with liberty mutual. he hits his mark center stage and is crushed by a baby grand piano. Are you replacing me . With this guy . Customize and save with liberty bibberty. He doesnt even have a mustache oh, look a bibu. [limu emu squawks. ] only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. My frequent heartburn had me taking antacid after antacid all day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. For one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. One pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. Dry skin is sensitive skin, too. And its natural. Treat it that way with aveeno® daily moisture. Formulated with nourishing, prebiotic oat. Its clinically proven to moisturize dry skin for 24 hours. Aveeno® youre probably not easily persuaded to switch mobile providers for your business. But what if we told you its possible that comcast Business Mobile can save you up to 75 a year on your wireless bill versus the big three carriers . Its true. Plus, when you buy your first line of mobile, you get a second line free. There are no Term Contracts or line activation fees. And you can bring your own device. Oh, and all on the most reliable 5g Mobile Network nationwide. Wireless that works for you. Its not just possible. Its happening