Hi there, everyone. Its now 4 00 in new york. We have major developments both here in the u. S. And abroad. In just a few hours, President Joe Biden will deliver an address to the nation from the oval office about the hamas Terror Attacks in israel that killed more than 1,400 people as well as the ongoing war in ukraine. It is his second address from the oval office since becoming president , and it is part of his push for a 100 billion aid package. Well have much more on that later in the broadcast, but we begin with the dam breaking and perhaps the most criminal prosecution of the expresident s alleged criminal enterprise, that plot to overturn the 2020 election. This morning in a courthouse in atlanta, georgia, trumps attorney, peddler of the big lie and importantly trumps codefendant Sidney Powell pleaded guilty to six Misdemeanor Counts in that sprawling rico case brought by Fulton CountyDistrict Attorney fani willis. Here is that moment. How do you plead to five counts of conspiracy to commit intentional interference with the performance of Election Duties and one count of conspiracy to commit criminal to commit criminal trespass . How do you plead to the six count thes of conspiracy to commit intentional interference with the performance of Election Duties. Guilty. Guilty. Part of that plea deal with prosecutors on the eve of what would have been the beginning of her trial alongside another trump attorney, kenneth chesebro, powell was sentenced to six years of probation for conspiracy to commit intentional interference of Election Duties as you heard there. Now, as part of that deal, the New York Times reporthis, quote, the prose said in court that ms. Powell had given them a recorded statement on wednesday. She has agreed to testify against any of the 17 remaining defendants. Powell has also agreed to turn over documents in her possession related to the case. It bears repeating, she has agreed to be a State Witness and testify against any of the other 17 defendants in the case. That includes Rudy Giuliani, john eastman, and the disgraced fourtimes indicted expresident himself. That means that powells guilty plea could end up being a body blow to trumps defense in the fulton case given her central role in many aspects of the coup plot. Powell was of course a bulwark of team crazy, the group of lawyers who took the reins of the Trump Campaign in the postelection period. She was the architect of what she termed, and she plotted to become Special Counsel and seized Voting Machines in a search for fraud, which had it happened would have marked a dangerous Point Of No Return for our country. Watershed moment in the Fulton County election interference case resulting in a former trump attorney now in position to flip on the expresident is where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. Atlanta journal constitution political reporter Greg Bluestein is here. Also joining us, the former lead investigate for the january 6th select committee, tim ivy, with me at the table, former Top Justice Department official, msnbc legal analyst, Andrew Weissmann is with us. Greg, i start with you. Sidney powell had her hands on the coupiest part of the coup, seizing Voting Machines and using the Executive Branch to do it as well as the most Georgia Parts of the coup, and that was this breakin in Coffee County, and what we still dont have a completely full picture of is the intersection of the two. Do you have any information about what she may have shared in that recorded statement . We dont have any details of that recorded statement. We do know that prosecutors must have loved what they heard because they agreed to this plea deal. But look, i mean, this is someone who, as you mentioned, does stand at that intersection. Its hard to find a donald trump defender who promoted Election Fraud lies and pushed false claims that he won the Georgia Election quite like Sidney Powell. Now she stands from going from Donald Trumps chief legal warrior to someone who could be a star witness in the trial against him and who could give prosecutors access to those inner circle discussions that she had with members of trumps legal team, with the former president himself, and of course as you mentioned, her role down in Coffee County in Rural Georgia Breaching that election data. So tim, she seems to me as crazy as mike flynn, as hands on as the other guy who pleaded guilty already for the Coffee County breakin and as sort of maniacal as the Overstock Guy in terms of using all the levers of power. Just tell us how important she is to this case and these still Unanswered Questions about january 6th. Yeah, nicolle, look, i think shes potentially really important, but unclear whether she provides a linkage between what shes pleaded to and the former president or other Senior Members of team crazy. I think from my quick review of the plea is that she has pled to a Misdemeanor Conspiracy to intentionally interfere with the performance of Election Duties related to that Coffee County access to ballots that happened on january 6th. Theres really no evidence yet that links the former president or giuliani or others to those series of events. Now, look, if she has in her Video Statement or would testify publicly that that was directed by the former president or he was aware of it or if she has more broad testimony, she has a testimonial obligation about direct communications she had with the president about the presence or lack of evidence of Election Fraud, it could be really significant, but the plie plea alone until we see what she said or will say, im not yet ready to say its the dam breaking or really significant. Significant symbolically that a Senior Member of the president s legal team is pleading guilty, but substantively does it materially move forward the case in georgia or in washington with the Special Counsel . That really depends on what she says, and we still dont know that. Its a really important distinction, what shes pleaded to and what the deal includes are six misdemeanors, and they dont get to, as far as what weve seen, the heart of trumps role, which was the committees focus in overturning and using the federal government, using all those levers of power to overturn his defeat. Let me let me and i think Andrew Weissmann shares your legal assessment of her potentially limited usefulness and understanding the broader plot. Let me just bring people back into the room with your questioning. It starts with your questioning of her, and this is around the December 18thOval Office Meeting and her association with team crazy. How much time did you have alone with the president , i say alone, you had other people with you, but from his aides before the crowd came running. Probably no more than 10 or 15 minutes. Was in that ill bet Pat Cipollone set a new land speed record. I opened the door and i walked in, i saw General Flynn. I saw Sidney Powell sitting there. I was not happy to see the people in the oval office. I was asking if i could the democrats were working with hugo chavez, venezuelans and whoever else, and at one point General Flynn took out a diagram that supposedly showed all over the world. I mean, at times there were people shouting at each other throwing insults at each other. It wasnt just sort of people sitting around on the couch like chitchatting. Cipollone and herschmann and whoever the other gal was showed nothing but contempt and disdain of the president. What response did you get when you asked ms. Powell and her colleagues . A variety of responses based on my current recollection including, you know, i cant believe you would Say Something like you know, things like this. What do you mean where is the evidence, you should know. And then there was the discussion of we dont have it now but we will have it or whatever. If it had been me sitting in the chair, i would have fired them all night. Both challenged what she was saying, and she says, well, the judges are corrupt, and i was like, every one . Every single case that youve done in the country you guys lost . Every one of them is corrupt, even the ones we appointed . I think it got to the point where the screaming was completely, completely out there. I mean, you got people walk in, it was late at night. Itd been a long day and what they were proposing i thought was nuts. Im going to categorically describe it as you guys are not tough enough or maybe i put it another away, youre a bunch of [ bleep ] excuse the expression. Im almost certain the word was used. Our team had cut an eightminute version. It really is amazing, but i think to maybe the distinction youre making for us is that theres nothing in the plea deal that suggests that she spilled the beans on this, which she sort of at the Beating Heart of the plot insides oval office and then the residence to use government to overturn the election. Right, but look she has a complete testimonial obligation as i read it so she could be asked and has been asked and will be asked again to talk about the discussion during that December The 18 meeting. What was the basis on which you would be potentially pointed as Special Counsel to investigate Election Fraud . What was the basis by which the president had authority to seize Voting Machines . Those were the kind of extreme measures that were discussed a the that meeting. So her firsthand account of what she told the president , what others told the president , directly bears upon his state of mind, which as weve discussed repeatedly will be a Central Focus for jack smith. The other thing thats important to remember is right after that meeting, the middle of the night after that meeting concludes after midnight is when january 6th is launched. The president goes back to the residence is, and at 1 40 something in the morning is when he tweets be there, big rally, big event on january 6th, be there, will be wild. We had so much testimony that that was the spark. That was seen as an invitation, people heeded that call as an invitation. The Energy Around january 6th, the organizing started then, so that meeting is really significant. It sort of leads to the president saying weve got to play our final card, which is Public Opinion and ramping up energy directed at the joint session. So powell could have a ton of information about all of that. Who knows if she has provided it or if it will ultimately bear upon the case. This is, again, a pretty limited set of facts to which hes pleaded guilty. Andrew. I am where tim is. Let me add a couple things. Lets start with it is certainly significant that she is pleading in and of itself. With respect to the Coffee County what does it mean . Why do you think she did . First, there was a guilty plea already, and that person this is how cases are brought, that person presumably is implicaing her, she doesnt want to go to jail. She works out a deal where she can look at the proof and say okay, i very well may be convicted. Id rather strike a deal where i dont do jail time. So for the people who are charged in the Coffee County breakin, which itself is a serious criminal violation, this is a very bad day, and it shows that yet again a person close to the former president is pleading guilty. Theres a slew of people like that. So that is significant, and as tim said, it is really interesting that she has this obligation to testify truthfully. She in that sense is just like allen weisselberg, remember the cfo of the Trump Organization who takes a narrow plea, but part of his Plea Agreement where he gets a very good deal, actually goes to jail. He has to do five months. The judge says if you dont testify truthfully, that deal is off. The same thing is true for ms. Powell. If she now lies and has asked questions broader than Coffee County the, she could do more time than probation. Thats sort of the plus. One other thing thats really clear is she has no deal with jack smith, and how do we know that . Because one of the questions that she was asked at the hearing that you played a portion of was by the court saying have we recounted all agreements that have led you to plead guilty, and they were only with the state. Why is that significant . If she was going to be saying things and has said things that could implicate her federally, no lawyer shes a lawyer and she has a lawyer, you dont do that without whats called a global resolution, and so this to me suggests that she is giving information so far at least that deals with the Coffee County piece but not the broader piece. Otherwise she would have done everything she could to try and get that broader deal, and apparently, you know, jack smith was not willing to play ball. But shes an unindicted, does anything that happens, does anything that she testifies to as part of her plea deal, can that endanger her legally federally sf. Yeah, absolutely. If she is called to testify and as tim pointed out, and is asked questions that go beyond Coffee County, tell me about your meeting in the oval office. Coffee county didnt happen in a vacuum. Coffee county based on the News Coverage of it and im going to ask Greg Bluestein to jump in if i get any of this wrong. Coffee county is the its a protrump county, but theyre trying to create a predicate for seizing every Voting Machine in every battleground state. The other piece people are concerned about is not just taking it but actually tampering with it. You want to talk about fraud in the election, that was the concern. Thats why chris krebs gets fired. Exactly. To me those questions are the thing that can clearly implicate her both in, sort of the rest of the things she was charged with in state court, but particularly what shes an unindicted coconspirator for at least currently in the federal case. She could be saying things that could make it her very rich target for jack smith. I want to pull you back in, greg, and if i got any of that wrong about the role of Coffee County, that will be part one. Heres part two. This is from the actual indictment that fani willis handed down, and this is this sort of where powell intersects with the other charged criminal defendants here, Rudy Giuliani and donald trump. Quote, on or about the 19th day of november 2020, ry uliani, jenna ellis, Sidney Powell, unindicted coconspirator individual 3 whose identity is known to the grand jury appeared at a Press Conference at the rnc on behalf of donald trump and made false statements concerning fraud in the november 3rd, president ial election in georgia and elsewhere. These were overt acts in furtherance of the conspiracy. On or about the 18th of december,onald trump met with rudy and Sidney Powell unindicted coconspirator individual 20, whose identity is known to the grand jury, the individuals presentt the g discussed certain strategies and theories intended to influence the outcome of the november 3rd president ial election, including Seizing Votingqument and appointing Sidney Powell as Special Counsel with Broad Authority to investigate allegations of vote fraud in georgia and elsewhere. This was an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy. It feels important to point out that d. A. Fani willis has developed a lot of evidence about the National Plot that she cites in her indictment and that she presumably is saving for her trials. Yeah, and first, nicolle, you are right about Coffee County, its a solid republican county in georgia. Theres Conspiracy Theories where there were other attempts, other talk at least about infiltrating Voting System in other deep red counties in order to prove what they saw as an overall effort to undermine, to give joe biden false votes, and of course in Coffee County it looked like there was there was it local Action Officials eager to follow through on it. Where in other counties there wasnt. When you talked about the underlying indictment and what prosecutors say that Sidney Powell and others did, right, the charges are based in Coffee County. She frequently visited the white house. She frequently talked not just with former President Trump, but she dealt directly with other prominent defendants and youre right, we dont know what she can testify. We dont know how useful she can be to prosecution. Obviously fani willis and her team of assistant District Attorneys think that she could be very valuable going over. Thats why its such a big victory to her. Such a blow to trump. I mean, Chris Christie has talked about how he i think christies quote is he goes to bed with the sound of clink, you know, and he may not remember who the last guy is, but he knows Sidney Powell. I want to keep all of you guys around. Theres more to show you in terms of the evidence that she could share with d. A. Fani willis as well as andrew and tim have been talking about. Shes likely still of interest to jack smith, so no ones going anywhere. We have much more to come in the broadcast. With the situation in the middle east getting more dire and urgent by the moment, President Biden will address the nation from the oval Office Tonight at 8 00 p. M. Eastern stressing that immediate action is critical to our National Security. Well preview his remarks and talk with our reporter on the ground in israel. Also coming up, if yesterday was ground hog day, today can only be described as one of whiplash. The plan at this hour is for jim jordan to reverse himself from an earlier position and face a third speakers vote. Only after the republican plan to empower a temporary leader was scrapped before it even got off the ground. Well get to all of the manufactured mayhem on the republican side and more when Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Dont go anywhere today. K. Dont go anywhe ertoday. Hi, my n clark. If you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that youll definitely want to hear. Depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana Medicare Advantage dualeligible Special Needs plan. All of these plans include a Healthy Options allowance, a monthly allowance to help pay for eligible groceries, utilities, rent, and overthecounter items. The Healthy Options allowance is loaded onto a prepaid card each month. And whatever you dont spend, carries over from each month. Other benefits on these plans include free rides to and from your medical appointments. And our Large Networks of doctors, hospitals and pharmacies. So, call the number on your screen now and ask about a humana Medicare Advantage dualeligible Special Needs plan. Humana. A more human way to healthcare. I can hardly wait to put forth all the evidence we have collected on dominion starting with the fact it was created to produce altered Voting Results in venezuela for hugo chavez. The money creating it came out of venezuela and cuba. It was created for the express purpose of being able to alter votes and secure the reelection of hugo chavez, and then maduro. All the machines are infected with the Software Code that allows dominion to shave votes for one candidate and give them to another and other features that do the same thing. I know it feels like a lot of crazy, those interviews, you know, one lou dobbs retirement and 780 Million Bucks later, here we are tim hay fee, i just want to come back to what was the committees unflinching focus, and that was trumps dereliction of duty, trumps embrace of the lies. Trumps form shopping in the absence of evidence of fraud, and trumps willingness to seize Voting Machines, to for a while in that meeting appoint Sidney Powell, that human being, Special Counsel and what if she heads down this road, takes a guilty plea, cooperates here, if shes ultimately charged by jack smith, what does she mean to trump . She could mean a real significant danger to trump, and there are a couple of things, nicolle, that point in that direction. One from the perspective of the prosecutor and one from the defense lawyers. So this is a pretty generous deal, right . Six counts of Misdemeanor Offenses and ultimately in a year or so, no ultimate criminal record, the ability to keep your law license, right . Prosecutors typically only give deals when theyve had a chance to evaluate the benefit that theyre getting. The benefit isnt just resolution of this case here, the benefit is cooperation so the fact that shes getting a relatively generous Misdemeanor Plea with the opportunity for essential no longterm consequence, suggests to me that she has something valuable, right . Information that helps fani willis and potentially helps the president. The other factor that suggests she could be real trouble to President Trump is that defense lawyers, shes a lawyer herself as andrew noted. Shes got experienced counsel. To me, almost always this is a binary decision by a criminal defendant to cooperate or not. Cooperation generally means full cooperation. Its not in her interest to sort of tiptoe down the road, cooperate a little bit, but hold back other stuff. Thats only going to be a bad outcome because shes got a truthful testimonial obligation. She could end up having pled but getting no benefit from the deal if she isnt truthful. The fact that she made that binary decision to plead guilty, albeit to the limited Coffee County, suggests to me she may have made a decision that shes all in. That its in her interests to protect herself by being all in. So those calculuses from the government side and the defense side all suggest that shes going to go there, right . Shes going to talk about the December 18th meeting. Shes going to talk about the crazy hugo chavez dominion theories which never had any foundation, and shes going to talk about the president s awareness of that, her discussions with him and others. So it could be and signs suggest that it could be significant. We wont know until we know, until we see actually whether she testifies and what she says. It could have real implications for the president. She has legal exposure in some of the Defamation Cases from one of the Voting Machine companies, and her defense was i didnt mean anything i said. Shes already essentially copped to known falsity, and i wonder, i was on the air when the first plea deal was announced by fani willis, and there was one sentence, but i remember being here with the rev, and even trump knows that this is how its the beginning of a mud slide. Its the trickle, a drop, and then its a river. What is just the structural inertia of a second guilty plea . That is the benefit of the fani willis approach. You indict a whole mass of people and people start pointing fingers at each other and you sort of roll up people. This plea looks so much like its the product of the last plea, and this, you know, by all accounts, you can think, well, this isnt maybe the last one. The people in the Coffee County conspiracy have to be thinking i need to like i need to get on board, but usually the next person does not get as good a deal. At some point, you can be like, no, i need to know more. You need to plead to more of this, not just a misdemeanor, to a felony, and you can exact a greater bargain, so its true she got a relatively good deal, but also, the other pressures as you noted are shes sort of financially wiped out. I mean, she is still facing civil liability on ddominion, ad fod god knows what her defense is going to be especially now that shes pleading to this. There was a lot of reasons for her to plead. One other aspect of her plea deal thats sort of very nushlgs unusual, ive never seen it, she agreed that she would not speak to any codefendant or the media until the cases were over. That would point sort of in the direction against sort of what tim and i are sort of trying to be hesitant about in terms of lets not jump too quickly. That would suggest she may have something, and this is saying we dont want any tampering. We are aware of that kind of effort, and this is all going to be kept under glass and under wraps until were ready to unveil it, so thats a pretty unusual provision. And im listening to you and im thinking these people never do what theyre supposed to do. The sanction would be its in violation of her plea deal. Here and the judge told her th clear, if you violate these conditions, your six years of probation can evaporate, so there its the same reason that theres a lot of pressure on her if shes asked questions and doesnt testify truthfully, she is Playing With Fire because that deal of not going to jail can e evaporate. Its not beyond reasonable that standard, the government can come in ask say i think youve violated, have a hearing in front of the judge and the judge can decide on his own that there was a violation and the deals off. I want to come to you, Greg Bluestein. There was a press that we took yesterday from new York Attorney general tish james who was talking about all the things trump has said about her. Hes called me venomous, hes called me racist, hes called me this and that, none of it matters inside the courtroom. I mean, this seems to be fani willis walking the walk, running her case, and notching another win today in the guilty plea of Sidney Powell. I got audio of a private fundraiser that fani willis hosted just a couple of days ago where she gave very unguarded comments about the personal toll this has taken on her. Also, look, this plea deal is part and parcel of her legal strategy. If you look back at how shes prosecuted other big cases including the Atlanta Public School cheating scandal about a decade ago, there were a number of plea deals and guilty pleas that helped whittle down the defendant number. We are always going to ask how do they fit 19 codefendants in one Fulton County courtroom. That was never the plan. The plan was to always get these plea deals and whittle down those numbers. Have we heard from chesebro . I know its pronounced chesebro, whichever version were using today, i defer. Has he reacted . Does this make his trial dicier for him in any way, now that Sidney Powell if she has anything on him has shared is this . Right now Jury Selections starting tomorrow in that case, as far as we know. So well be closely watching and the trial if the jury is selected on a timely basis, the trial could start in a couple of weeks. If you could pick up on this, what is your sense of how this could impact chesebro . It absolutely could. Look, defendants are going to l act in their selfinterest. I dont care if their codefendant is leading in the polls and could be president again. When push comes to shove and people are facing jail time or spending a lot of money on legal fees or professional consequences, these are lawyers whose licenses and livelihoods at stake. They will act in their selfinterest, and Sidney Powell made a decision that it was in her interest to speak, to cooperate, which got her the plea. Ken chesebro must be going through that same calculus. There was a reporting that he was offered one felony count, so a more serious plea than that which was offered Sidney Powell. I agree with andrew back to his point about this sort of silence obligation, very unusual. Ive never seen it. It suggests that she has information that is valuable, that if it were to get out, could subject could hurt the governments case. Could subject her to issues. Thats yet another smoke signal here, circumstantially, that what she has is potentially beyond Coffee County. Look, i dont know what chesebros going to do, maybe he isnt getting that same sweetheart deal. No question he and his lawyers are evaluating whether its in their selfinterest to do something. Just because we are in the eve of Jury Selection for this trial, just to remind everybody, i think liz cheney saved some of her most Scathing Contempt for chesebros role at the white house. Just remind everybody his role on january 6th. Yeah, so hes a lawyer similar role to eastman, that sort of writes some memos which articulate this sort of independent state legislature theory. That State Legislatures are empowered somehow under article 2 of the constitution to set forth electors, even if thats inconsistent with the results of an election as certified by that election. Again, no basis, no reasonable lawyer would find that credible. Yet, it is something that gets into the discussion among team crazy, and it originated from ken chesebro. So he is in a similar place as eastman and powell and other lawyers who are sort of architects of this sort of hail mary strategy that had no basis in fact or law. And as you and i talked about yesterday, it was all in writing. I mean, the times had new reporting on his emails. He knew the l fruitless. He knew there was no kraken to be released and pursued it anyway for political purposes. One thing to note about the trial is chesebro and powell did not want to go to trial together. You cant blame chesebro, who wants to be on trial with Sidney Powell and that kind of press. I guess part of you could think sitting next to her im not going to look as bad. Maybe thats not a legal consideration. Youre right. Defense lawyers think about that. Really . It might not be as bad. Youre concerned about the Mud Slopping Over and that it all looks and the jury going pots, there is a part of chesebros counsel whos probably thinking this isnt all bad. He obviously still is facing really significant charges, really significant evidence. Im not sure losing her as a codefendant is something hes so upset about. Initially he did ask to be separated. That gets underway really shortly. Jury selection. Tomorrow. Yes, tomorrow. Everybody keep your calendar free between 4 00 and 6 00. Thank you so much for starting us off today. Up next for us, crisis on capitol hill, the dysfunction and the chaos in the Republican Caucus is now an even bigger mess, and its not just about them. It affects the way the government can and cant work right now from a possible vote today to a pause back to a plan to back a temporary speaker and now were back to a possible vote again on jordan. The only thing we know at this hour is ali vitali is going to be here to explain all of it to us. Stay with us. To us stay with us oh, that. . Im not sure. Its a nail fungus infection. Thats gross its nothing, really. Its contagious. You can even spread it to other people. Mom, come here dont worry about it. Itll go away on its own no, it wont go away on its own. Its an infection. You need a prescription. Nail fungus is a contagious infection. At the first signs, show it to your doctor. And ask if jublia is right for you. 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We now turn to event offense earth 2, events appear to be stuck in a state of extended chaos. When we checked in this morning, Jacketless Jim jordan appeared to be heading for a third speaker vote. That effort fell apart. Jordan said he was going to take a pause and support temporarily empowering congressman Patrick Mchenry for speaker. Hes the temporary one. Only to again see that i guess were on plan d, e, fall apart. So now, jim says to expect a third vote for him after all, and now hes Behind Closed Doors meeting with the 22 gop holdouts. Some of them have been at the other end of some very public, very aggressive, very threatening Pressure Campaigns as have their spouses. Multiple republican lawmakers have reported receiving menacing calls of intimidation to get them to vote for Jacketless Jim. Some even received Death Threats after breaking with jim jordan. One congresswoman said she ceived, quote, credible death threat and a barrage of threatening calls, end quote, after she switched her vote to Anher Republican in the second round of voting. One thing i cannot stomach or support is a bully, admitting that she will not be intimidated. Joining us now former congressman from florida and msnbc political analyst david jolly. Were trying to get Ali Vitali Up as well. David jolly, i know why i have a visceral rejection of jim jordan and it precedes his role in overturning the result of the 2020 election, but tell me why they hate him, the 22. Yeah, in many ways it is a culmination of the evolution of the Republican Party to where it is today, and so those who remember a Previous Party are the ones saying, wait a minute, jordan cannot be our speaker, and heres why. Jordan emerged just before the tea party in 2010 and helped usher in this brand of conservatism that believes government is the enemy. They have to shut it down. They are antiinstitutions, so the disconnect here, the dissonance is you have a caucus largely now, a majority of the caucus that is against government, and governing, and they dont to want do it, and yet, you have those very people now saying, but give me the keys to the institution of the House Of Representatives and its this kick sottic moment where we get to see the culmination of a modern Republican Party that says government is the enemy but trust us with the keys. You still have people that have come along through the more traditional elevation of politics, particularly in the Appropriations Committee and in some of the normal Governing Committees that have said jim jordan has opposed everything that government has required in the past 15 years. Why should we now trust him. Thats why this impasse is very different than mccarthys. Mccarthys was this ideological battle against the matt gaetzs of the world, if you want to call it ideology. This now is an institutional battle, and there are enough republicans who have said, wait a minute, we have a responsibility to govern, and frankly, as republicans, we can achieve conservative results by governing, but we achieve nothing by shutting it down or by going speakerless. Jordan and gaetz might be okay shutting it down and going speakerless, which is why this moment is something weve never seen before. Heres another thing i want to pull into this conversation. Im wrestling with whether or not i want to play this. Im still thinking about it, but this is a jordan is a proxy for donald trump and sean hannity, and even if jim jordan wins, he will only win because the bullying and the Public Shaming and the Death Threats and the attacks to members spouses were so vitriolic that in the end you can only chock it up to fear, right . Kevin mccarthy already gave everything away. There was nothing left to give away. If jim jordan becomes the speaker, its because sean hannity has been on the air. Im going to play this for the purpose of showing the public Pressure Campaign has been waged by republicans against republicans. My choice for chairman, my choice for speaker, the best option i think we have is jim jordan, the ohio congressman. Now, i do believe he could and should garner the full support of the gop conference. Jim jordan has now thrown his hat in the ring, and ill be very upfront, jim jordan is my choice to be the next speaker of the house. I think jordan would be a great speaker myself. I do have to chuckle that a few of my questions, simple questions that i asked to some republicans over the weekend about the importance of getting a speaker as soon as possible show we have a few sensitive little snowflakes in congress. David jolly, ive made this point before, what republicans do to democratic lawmakers is heinous. What they do to each other is almost as bad, but they deserve it, right . Because theyre all in with this maga republicanism. What happens now is that should jim jordan become the speaker, he will not be loyal to the 22 holdouts hes in a room with right now. Hell be loyal to sean hannity and donald trump, and so i guess from a vote building, a support building perspective, can those 22 be bullied . Thats the only question on the table. I dont think they can, and in fact, in many ways, what hannity has done and trump and jordan is having the reverse impact whether it has caused these members in opposition to jordan to dig in harder. The night that email from hannitys producer went to some of the members who were holding out, i spoke with a member who received it. It had exactly the opposite impact. It was so disingenuous, at a time when the worlds on fire with israel, blah blah blah blah, we have to open the government and jordans the way to do it. They didnt care about governing. They cared about putting jordan in the job. They were using World Affairs at a time when republicans create thd crisis for themselves, to suggest that now jim jordan must be the answer and youre opposing all things the world needs by opposing jim jordan. Heres where its also a proxy for trump, nicolle, this is the gravity of the moment. If jim jordan is speaker, the house becomes a vessel to steal the 2024 election. Donald trump knows that. Jim jordan knows that. Jim jordan sat at cpac last year, im going to impeach joe biden so that we can get donald trump back to the white house. We know his planning around january 6th. We know his role in trying to overturn the 2020 election. Jim jordan as speaker would use the house as a vessel to steal the 2024 election. It is why this is not Hakeem Jeffries or the democrats problem to solve for the republicans. They need to stand their ground, let republicans continue to implode, and then if theres a deal to be made its with a much stronger hand than we would have seen three weeks ago or even this week. Such an important point. I dont put my faith in the republicans on any question. I think this is the nicest sean hannity and jim jordan are going to be to them. Theyre not going to be nicer once you cave and support him. Its downhill from this moment. With all of this laid out, we have finally established our connection with ali vitali. We have to sneak in a quick break. Well have her bring us inside exactly where things stand in the vote count if we know it on the other side of a break. Stay with us. Ay with us megawatts of power, rails and open road, and essential services of every kind. All running on countless invisible networks, making it a prime target for cyberattacks. But the same aipowered security that protects all of google also defends the systems running americas infrastructure. 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The good news is, you couldnt see me but i could hear you, which is immensely helpful for me to jump into this Conversation Midstream because you are right to have pointed out the threats and threats of violence that members who voted against jordan have experienced, its not just drew meeks, its don bacon, its others, all of them detailing the fact that in this highly partisan political environment, having changed their votes are never having backed jordan in the first place was something they really faced cross current four in a threatening fashion, digitally and outside this building so its definitely something we brought up in our conversations with congressman jordan, he continues to say the things thats important, and it shouldnt be happening but as jordan is huddled with these holdouts, that this is something that has to come up, and it makes it that much more difficult because its no longer just a political and policy conversation but a very personal conversation too, for these members who have faced threats for simply voting the way they think their conscience should. Now in terms of where this goes next, that is sort of the question weve been asking all day, and i think even members dont know the answer to it. It very much feels like a whos on first game, and its very poorly played, and i know its an old reference but i grew up with my grandparents and it really does feel like no one is running the show, no one knows whats coming next. Youve even got offices sending like the wrong statement for the wrong scenario, it is really chaotic, so as much as jordan might be saying that hes going to another vote, we dont know when thats going to be, we dont know if itll be today, tonight, maybe tomorrow, maybe theres no third vote at all but jordan is actively trying to talk to the people who are standing in the way of his speakership which is these 22 holdouts and quite candidly, im not sure thats going to change anything. Some of what we were talking about is if he prevails, it will be through bullying tactics, so i dont know how any of these members fold, at least with that humiliating subverting of the human of Kevin Mccarthy, he was giving away things to get votes. In this case, hes got sean hannity and donald trump and threats of physical violence, thats it. You know what the other big difference is here, back in january, you could argue that it was the wrong forum and the asks were not the right thing to ask for but in january, Kevin Mccarthy was negotiating with people 15 of them, who kind of knew what they want to, they wanted rules changes, spending agreements, seats on certain committees, they wanted to see things go through regular order, there were asks that mccarthy was able to concede, the motion to vacate looking like the worst of them all because it lent us where we are now but nevertheless thats a big difference, in january, there were things to trade away, now when you look at these 22 holdouts, they are not even any writing what theyre asking for here, for some of the appropriators, its the fact that jim jordan is who he is, he voted against the continuing resolution to keep the government open, hes someone who has always been a firebrand on spending. He wants to see that even further, his plan to avoid a Government Shutdown is to let the threat of 1 cross cuts across the board the be the thing that guides them into deeper cuts, hes not someone who appropriators are thrilled with being in the speakers chair. But thats not them saying okay, we want you to trade us this to make us more comfortable. As far as im concerned in my conversations, there are no tangible asks on the table and thats what makes the situation more difficult than january. At least then we knew what was being bartered for, now, it doesnt even seem like theres anything to trade. David, it is so on brand, it is so distressing, and its so inevitable. Where do we go from here . It is, and it isolates the pure dysfunction of only the Republican Party in this moment, because i do think what becomes untenable is the notion that somehow jordan gets another couple of weeks to try to get to 218 votes. As the number stay where they are, hes frozen the rest of the caucus, and that goes to this question about a Temporary Mchenry governing session, heres the irony. You dont need democrats to actually do that. The reason they dont have a Temporary Mchenrys because republicans cant even agree on that. They can agree on 30 days of a gop agenda among themselves and use mchenry as the leader of the house to do it but they cant do that. Hakeem jeffries and the democrats are ready to partner and some type of bipartisan governments that gets major legislation through while republicans sort this out. Republicans dont even want to do that and the idea that jordan can hang on for weeks and weeks to try to get to 218, that gets untenable by this weekend. I dont know how they do that. The irony is that it would probably help him politically to do the first, right, to put mchenry and get some things done. It will probably bolster their most vulnerable members but it doesnt seem to be any chance they will do that. Thank you so much for spending time with us. Up next for us, we will preview President Bidens Primetime Address to the nation tonight. Eynt go anywhere. Tourists tourists that turn into scientists. Tourists photographing thousands of miles of remote coral reefs. That can be analyzed by ai in real time. So researchers can identify which areas are at risk. And help life underwater flourish. Why didnt we do this last year . Before you were preventing migraine with qulipta® . Remember the pain . Cancelled plans . The worry . That was then. And look at me now. Youll never truly forget migraine. But qulipta® reduces attacks, making zeromigraine days possible. Its the only pill of its kind that blocks cgrp and is approved to prevent migraine of any frequency. To help give you that forgetyouget migraine feeling. Dont take if allergic to qulipta®. Most common side effects are nausea, constipation, and sleepiness. Learn how abbvie could help you save. Qulipta®. The forgetyouget migraine medicine™. Hows the chicken . The prawns are delicious. Oh, i have a shellfish allergy. One prawn. Very good. Did i say Chicken Wrong . Tired of people not listening to what you want . Its truffle season ah thats okay. Never enough truffles. How much are they . Its a lot. Oh okay im good, that its like a priceless piece of art. Enjoy. Or when they sell you what they want . Yeah. The more we understand you, the better we can help you. Thats what u. S. Bank is for. Huge relief. Yeah. In this moment it must be crystal clear, we stand with israel. We stand with israel. My commitment is the security and the United States has israels back and i have yours as well, both at home and abroad. As long as the United States stands and we will stand forever. We will not let you ever be alone. Its 5 00 in new york tonight at such an urgent hour for reestablishing security in the middle east and global stability at large, President Joe Biden will address the nation and a world on edge. He will do so from his seat in the over oval office, a place reserved for such critical junctions, the Space Shuttle challenger disaster, september 11, and three hours he will deliver such a Primetime Address, not just on the violence and terror and pure evil weve seen and heard about including on the show in and around israel the past 12 days but also in the deadly conflict still raging in ukraine. President biden will deliver that address as his administration is expected to submit a supplemental funding package to congress. According to a lawmaker and two sources with knowledge, itll be 100 billion to ukraine, taiwan, the usmexico border and israel. Less than one day after President Biden returned from israel, former Prime Minister brock says a bloodied assault on the gaza strip is likely in the coming days and fears of a broader regional conflict persist. So, we are all left to wonder, what next . Today the u. S. Embassy in beirut urged americans in lebanon to leave now, call, while commercial options are Still Available and the Ste Department issued a worldwide caution advisory to all you s citizens warning them to st alert in taurus locations and stay in contact with the State Department to receive alerts and to be located by the State Department should something happen. Here at home the department of Homeland Security said its monitoring a heightened threat environment, taking measures to enhance security amid warnings of potential violence related to israels war with hamas. With that, the table has been set for President Bidens Oval Office Address this evening. Michael sure i start with you, youve done Great Reporting on the address im sure youve heard more. Tell us what you are hearing. The only thing ive heard is a note on length, 15 to 20 minutes from the president. I think thats about right. And i think, to some extent, the Broad Strokes here will be pretty familiar. Weve seen joe biden during his presidency talk very broadly about americas role in the world, the need to come to the defense of global stability and the democratic nations across the world and i think you are going to hear more of that. When i talked to folks at the white house about what we should expect with the speech, they said look, hes not going to get into the nittygritty of these aid requests, yes, hes going to make the broad case for congress to approve them and approve them swiftly but he wants to make a broader case to the public about why supporting israel and ukraine is in americas interest and the interest of global stability and to try to help americans who might be sitting at the kitchen table, worried about inflation, healthcare prices, worried about immigration or crime in their communities, and how do they connect whats going on half a world away in the middle east, and in europe, and why its important and why they should care. I think they recognize fully that there has been diminishing support in both Public Opinion and on the hill. They still think that support is there, they still think they can get the funding but i think they recognize that the speech is important to make sure that that kind of support doesnt erode even more. Micah, theres something that so quintessential joe biden about how hes handled the last 10 days. And i want to play something. This was coming in while i was on the air, so i didnt see the full tape until i got off the air but let me play it, this president talking about why and how he comforted israelis on this trip. I learned a long time ago when simmons going through something that the other comprehension. If they see someone who they think understands and maybe they do something not the same as someone, it gives them some sense of hope. People are looking for just something to grab, something that gives them some sense of hope and if i can do a little bit of that thats worth doing. It was done for me. Everything about joe biden has been on display in the last 10 days, from his remarks at the antisemitism meeting where he talked about taking his kids once they turned 14, he takes them all to, from that statement right there about why go to israel, and a political level and benjamin netanyahu, not exactly the same kind of politician but in this moment of terror and the accounts of the hostages, and the accounts from the families, whose children and spouses and grandparents were slaughtered, they are still pouring in. We dont have enough of an Intention Span to continue to showcase them here, tragically but in israel, thats not the case, and to hear him talking about what he thought he could do on that trip, was, it just felt like all the reasons that joe biden won the election in 2020 in the first place. I think you are right. Look, there are times that joe biden seems like a man out of the moment, that he doesnt quite fit in this rapidfire world, this twitter fueled world that we live in but there are other moments where he draws on what i think he and his aides think are his superpowers, the wisdom that comes as he said, from experience, the decades of Foreign Policy, being steeped in Foreign Policy and the details of the history of countries that now, we are asked to be deeply engaged in. And i think the last thing is the piece that you just showed, which is, you know, hes always believed that empathy is a key part of connecting to the American People in politics. That has been a central part of his identity, his political identity and his governing identity, and you know there are times that it doesnt work, there are times that politics races around him but this is a moment where you know, the kind of brutality and trauma that we saw play out in israel, the ongoing brutality in ukraine, the white house believes that he can put that on display in a speech like tonight and that that will be a real aid in connecting with the American Public. Hes also rolled up his sleeves and i think the us Secretary Of State probably deserves the credit for this, too, and it seems to be using this connection with israel at this moment to push and fight and demand that a come into the country more quickly. That i think in every Public Statement that hes made, hes talked about following the rules of war. And he said something really powerful on the ground as well. He said dont do what we did. Dont let your Foreign Policy, im paraphrasing now, tell me about how he is being received in the region . The reaction couldnt have been more positive from the israelis perspective. He came at a moment of intense trauma and grief in the country. He said all the right things from their perspective, he has filled a Leadership Gap that many people are feeling after the very obvious fact of the idf and the political leadership, so he came and said all the right things. And he talked about his conversation with golda mayer , i dont know if you show this clip but she said you look nervous mr. Senator and he said of course im nervous. And i think all these themes, also meeting with the victims, there were 32 americans killed as well. We have maybe up to one dozen hostages as part of the 250 being held, so yes, he is the person thats going to ensure the israelis that we will get you the weapons you need but you also need to act in accordance with the rules of law in gaza and heres where the rake is, the israeli public is pushing the Prime Minister not to let eight in until the hostages are released. There are Young Children being held and no one knows if they are getting any aid or anything and at the same time theres enormous pressure from biden to let the aid in. The Transfer Point was bombed so they need to figure out a way to get a that will not go to hamas, that will go to the people of gaza but broadly biden has got to explain tonight, to justify to the American Public the 10 billion that hes asking for. And i will be listening to hear what he says about iran, they seem to be releasing proxies, but maybe from yemen, and iraq as well. Its such an intricate and complicated picture, and it is these two sides of biden, this experience, this actual history that he has, not just political history but World History that he has. And then i just want to show you a soundbite from a First Responder, is really First Responder that met with biden yesterday. I think this is the greatest thing that happened to israel in many years. Uplifting the spirit of the People Living south of israel that have bartered for the last 20 years, by the missiles coming from gaza, everyone knows someone who was either murdered, kidnapped or injured, and every israel he feels like his family was hit and all of a sudden the most important president of the world, the president of the United States come to visit israel, just to support and show love. I think this uplifted the spirit of every israeli, christians and muslims and. Anyone who loves israel, their spirit was uplifted yesterday. There such a complex, i guess its more like a bomb, that you have to unravel before it blows up, and its so complicated and you need all of this history and expertise but then theres this human part of it. Just what the trip seems to have achieved without a lot of debate and sophisticated analysis. Just to build on golda mayer, dont forget the symbolism of this attack, it was on the 50th Anniversary of the Yom Kippur War war, looking at that, you know, this is just a very somber time for israelis to begin with. And the president came with all of his history and i think not only was he able to hug israel and keep them close but that gives him a lot of credibility when he says to the israelis as weve been talking about, be careful, think twice, be strategic, where is this going, what about the day after, he has that credibility but tonight, i think when he went to israel, that was him talking to the israeli public, tonight, hes talking to a lot of constituencies. Hes not just talking to the American Public about why two wars half a world away are important for u. S. Interest and he has to talk to democrats who are you know, look, there are a lot of progressives in the democrat section of the party that are very upset about whats happening and want a ceasefire and are leaning in towards you know, how the palestinians are being treated, then theres the republicans that dont want to fund ukraine, then theres the arab world who sees this, sees these pictures of the palestinians and feel that the u. S. Is giving them a green light, and i also think when you say they are so complex, when you see how this has rocked our country, you know, this is one of those 9 11 moments where the whole world is shaken a little bit, and he is going to speak to that. I think, talk to Jewish American specifically, students on campus, muslim students, there was a muslim young boy who was killed, so i think the whole kind of comforter in chief, its not only applying to israel but i think to this country, when people are not only concerned about the Economic Situation but two world wars, iran might get involved. I think theres a lot of anxiety in this country that the president is going to lean into tonight. There are mountains and mountains of anxiety in this country. Im so glad you brought that out. It shows its face, everyone is in so much pain. The anxiety and grief is so tremendous. And ukraine, and the ukrainians have been understanding that our domestic politics sort of pulled us away from shining the spotlight on the plight of the ukrainians who are fighting a war against our adversary as well in russia. I wonder, how does he do all of that . How does he bring our hearts and minds back to ukraine, and how does he stay shoulder to shoulder with israel at a time when there are some people in his own party who are uncomfortable with that . Well, it is tricky for a lot of the reasons that elise just said, theres not just one constituency, its many, and the audiences that hes trying to reach out to arent going to agree with each other. Especially in the case of israel, its longstanding humanitarian views that people have held for so long, and so he cant treat this as a speech in which he is going to try to convince people to change their minds or move sides, navigating through all these difficult opinions and ultimately tried to describe a place for america to be that is somehow the right middle ground, where we serve as a supportive partner to the embattled nations abroad but also somehow deal with the tensions in our own country as well, and frankly, doing it all at the front end of a president ial Campaign Next year which is going to be you know, brutal, for all the reasons that we know and all the domestic situations that we have. I think the white house thinks it is the right moment to begin that conversation. I dont want to let the moment go about College Campuses. What is the most helpful thing he could say, if he decides to address the College Campuses . He needs to give a simple message, we need to be able to hold two ideas in tandem, one we need to universally condemn the slaughter of children where terrorists went in homes and literally tortured children before their parents eyes, kidnapped and murdered them, you need to be able to do that. And we can also be, for a two state solution, this whole issue has become conflated on campuses including my own and he needs to show support for jewish students in particular right now who are feeling very afraid that after this mass slaughter of 1400 people and then they were confronted with prohamas slogans on campuses, so i think there needs to be some recognition of that and i think as a country, we need to be able to talk about these issues in a way that is a little bit more sophisticated and its heartbreaking for me as someone who works with students here to see whats happening at stanford, harvard, ucla, berkeley, everywhere. So i hope that as campuses, we can start to do a little better in these conversations. There is a hole in my heart when i hear about it, and i cant put any logic to it, that , these were israelis, everybody that i have interviewed at least, they were the most enthusiastic to get peace with their neighbors, before last saturday, they wanted peace and ive said this. I wouldnt be able to dive fast enough if i had to witness any of the horrors done to children. Thank you for putting all of this on the table. No three people more, better to talk to on these issues. To be continued, thank you so much. We are going to get a live report from our Dear Colleague in the middle east, where people in israel and gaza will be watching President Bidens address tonight, more than 2 1 2 hours away. Also, in light of the fbi and Homeland Security warning of a heightened Security Threat at home in the United States, what Community Leaders are doing to keep people safe and made an increase in reported threats against jewish, arab and muslim groups. Dateline white house comes back after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. Go anywhere. We used to struggle with greasy messes. Now, we just freak, wipe, and were done with mr. Clean clean freak, conquering messes is that easy. Clean freaks mist is three times more powerful, and it works on contact. Clean freak, just freak, wipe, done. Ional mmunity of the red cross said that a War Surgeon Team plus a Convoy Trucks Carrying Aid has been mobilized toward gossip but they say theres still a lack of safe access to the area despite the urgent need. I feel like the world has changed since we last talked to days ago, when the hospital was hit and it was not clear, you eloquently describe the fog of war. U. S. Intelligence assessed that it was a failed launch from Islamic Jihad. We have moved to the address to this nation on the return of joe bidens trip to israel, and youve been so good at widening the lens. Can you just take me through how things are going right now . Reporter it feels like we are on the verge of this Ground Innovation. A few hours ago the Israeli Defense minister was south of where we are now, meeting israeli troops and he said to them, you are looking at gaza now, you will be inside of gaza soon. The exact timing has become a little bit of a diplomatic guessing game, the conventional wisdom is that the israelis will not launch this Ground Innovation while a western leader is in town. We had President Biden here yesterday, we have the british pie minister here today, he flew onto saudi arabia. We were expecting at some point in the coming days the french president to be here, but who knows, the israelis could surprise all of us and launch this Ground Invasion at any time. The Israeli Military as well as preparing for this offensive has been updating the families of israeli hostages. They said they have reached 203 families who have a loved one being held hostage inside of gaza. Weve been speaking always to the families of some of these hostages. Their stories are unbelievable. We spoke earlier today to a woman, for members of her extended family are being held inside of gaza including her little cousin. He is eight years old, hes going to turn nine on monday. And she told us a little about him. Take a listen. Hes only a child. He was glasses. He cannot manage without his glasses, and we dont know if he is with his glasses or not. This is something that weighs a lot on his father, he always talks about, what about his glasses. I hope they let him keep it. Nikole, of all the horror that weve seen and all the horror we have heard over the last couple weeks, something about that jumped out at me. Tonight, theres a little boy and gaza, whose afraid , and he may not have his glasses, nikole . Its so harrowing, and i wonder if you have any sense or any reporting on how the plate of 200 is really hostages inside gaza figures into the actual planning for a Ground Invasion . Reporter its one of the major, major questions hang over israel right now. Because from the outside, this looks like a kind of binary choice, i either israel storms into gaza or it rescues the hostages. Its difficult to see how it can be both, given hamas in their threats, just given the danger that these hostages may be killed accidentally during a Ground Invasion. Just talking to people on the street. A lot of people feel very strongly that israelis, i should say, feel very strongly that the only acceptable outcome here is for hamas to be toppled, given the scale of the atrocity that we saw on october 7th, and i think there is a grim feeling among a lot of people that, it may just be that the fate of the hostages cannot stop this necessary operation inside of gaza, we should say there are 2 million palestinians who are also waiting to learn their fate in terms of this Ground Invasion. The death toll is already at around 4000 inside of gaza. We expected to get much higher if Israeli Forces do go in on the ground. People are waiting right now to see if the crossing opens tomorrow, which the white house is saying it will. The egyptians are saying it will but weve been here before where theres been a lot of optimism about the crossing being opened and it hasnt opened in the end but people are hoping that it will. Theres about 20 trucks worth of aid waiting on the egyptian side and that is just a fraction of what people need. And the un has been warning for a week now than 1 Million People displaced from Northern Gaza told by the Israeli Military to leave their homes and head south would trigger a humanitarian catastrophe and we are watching that catastrophe unfold in front of our eyes, people who do not have water, do not have electricity, are running out of food and the un says that israel says that it is going into Northern Gaza to take out hamas and the infrastructure to destroy its ability to ever do again what it did on october 7th when it slaughtered so many people but there are hundreds of thousands of civilians on the palestinian side who are in the crossfire right thank you so much for yo reporting and staying up to spend some time with us. Please stay safe. When we come back, Attorney GeneralMerrick Garland addressed it today, how to keep jewish, muslim and arab communities in our country safe in the face of threats against them. We will have that conversation next. Sation next all toooo youuuuu sean i wish for the amazing new iphone 15 pro jason sean do you mean this one the one with titanium . Its so light. Dont touch it. Maybe stealing wishes from the birthday boy is not your best plan switch to verizon and get iphone 15 pro on them. sean what . jason yup, and on an Amazing Network sean and i dont have to ruin anymore Birthday Parties jason yeah, that ship has sailed. Lets go get you the iphone. Here we go, come on hon. vo get iphone15 pro, apple tv 4k and 6 months of apple one. All three on us. Only on verizon. My dry eyes made me a burning, stinging, 5timesaday,. Makeup smearing drops user. I want another option thats not another drop. Tyrvaya. Its not another drop. Its the first and only nasal spray for dry eye. 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Thats service the way we want it. Singers safelite repair, safelite replace. Hamas and the Terror Attacks. The entire Justice Department remains vigilant in our efforts to identify and respond to hate crimes, threats of violence or related incidents with particular attention to threats to faith communities. That was Attorney General garland speaking directly to americans facing an increase in threats in response to an around the israel and hamas war. Threats paicularly against jewish, muslim and arab counities. We have learned that u. S. Law enforcement officials are monitoring prohamas extremist, flooding social media with calls for violence against jewish communities. Today, u. S. Security agene rning state and local Law Enforcement to remain vigilant and what they call a fluid and evolving situation and already heightened threat environment. The conflict has quote sharpened the focus of potential attacks on targeted individuals and institutions perceived as symbolic of or tied to the conflict. Joining the conversation, former Acting Assistant Journal for National Security. Mccord and with me at the table, the ceo and director of the anti defamation league, jonathan greenblatt. I should say, mary you were here when it happened, its already taken the life of a beautiful, innocent sixyear old palestinian american boy. We come to these conversations with what if, and we are already post terror, the terror of this child felt of someone he thought he could trust, his landlord, he came to the door and brutally took his life in what is being investigated as a hate crime, and it feels like the language and the rhetoric from Law Enforcement suggest deep alarm inside of them . You know, that was just a matter of days, and the rhetoric has continued and its antisemitic, antimuslim, anti palestinian, as we are talking about this war and whats coming out of it, it just feeds into the hands of far right, White Supremacist extremists who want to vilify both groups, jewish people as well as muslims. But we are also seeing some other really troubling escalations of this, just today, researchers i worked with shared various means equating essentially Hamas Terrorists with nazi, saying that the nazi were trying to eradicate the world of the jewish people and support that and dont let your children go to a war in israel to protect the jewish people. We are seeing a rise in islamophobia, and even more troubling, will not more troubling, number troubling, equally troubling as we are seeing Terrorist Organizations like al qaeda, like ices, taking advantage of this moment because, there is chaos, there is, you know, there has been a major Terrorist Attack and this is a chance for them to get in there and foment things as well. And on top of that, theres disinformation because as we talked about so many times over the last several years, the Online Platforms are so susceptible to spreading disinformation, creating deep fakes, creating, you know, visual and other depictions that are not true, and that affects peoples view of what the reality is, and to alter the information online, to make it seem, you know, worse against one side or the other, again, it just feeds into people like the killer in chicago who then take it upon themselves to do something about it, and thats why its adjusting because im not surprised that we still have intelligence briefing saying no credible threat, that doesnt mean there arent threats, that means they dont have a discrete, actionable threat that they can go take action on right now, make an arrest, forte lot. Theres so much out there, and at any time, you can have loan actors who act upon what they believe to be the case, whether it is true or not, and also, you know, on top of their own extremist ideology, adding on top of it, feeding into it. We are in a very precarious time, and i think thats why you see the Attorney General trying to reach out to houses of worship across different faiths, to try to be supportive of them and make sure that theres detection for those institutions because those are certainly targets as well. Have you seen a moment since 9 11 where people are as concerned as they are today . So, obviously, and ices declared caliphate and people were traveling across the world to join isis, and we had attacks being thwarted at home and we had a number of attacks that actually took place, in san bernardino, the actual tempo of the fbi and our International Partners at that time was the highest it had been since post 9 11. Im obviously not in government anymore but there was serious, serious concern than about lone wolf attacks here in the United States, those did occur, and thats what i suspect is exactly what my former colleagues in the Security Division and across the National Security apparatus of the federal government, im sure thats exactly what they are worried about and im sure their operational tempo has gone up and i would say also at the state and local level, some of the reporting today coming out of new york, you know, we need to Work Together but also, with Community Members. Its not all something where you should keep all the information within the government because the communities need to know how to be prepared and need to know that Law Enforcement is there to be of assistance, and as we mentioned before, that can be more challenging with some communities because of years of distrust between Law Enforcement and those communities, feeling targeted. This is a moment where we need to work hard and thats why we and we are not in these moments we need to be building bridges, and meet us before you need us, and Law Enforcement needs to be building relationships so that when this happens, they are trusted partners. So, i will ask you what you are worried about today . Look, in america, theres a lot to be alarmed about. And before i even get to that, ive got to say, my heart rakes for this mom in illinois at her son, who, she was stabbed in her son was stabbed and killed. The sixyearold boy, there should be no casualties from this conflict here in the United States. Its unacceptable. So our heart goes out to the families and the whole palestinian american community. There innocent people who dont deserve any of this. At the same time im very worried about the Jewish Community. We have seen a surge in anti semitic incidents since this happened. Number 1, im concerned about harassment, vandalism, violence directed against the Jewish Community by people inspired by the events that are happening overseas. Last friday, as you probably know, the head of hamas called for a global day of jihad against jews worldwide. This is part of their charter, not to create a state in palestine but to destroy and murder jews, this is one of the galling things, on some other networks, the way they have reported on information coming from the hamas ministries, as if they were credible, we know hamas is like ices, they cant be trusted. Say more about what we should do . We should not just take what they are telling us. We wouldnt take osama bin ladens Press Releases and reading them, why are we reading hamas is Press Releases, its from the school of propaganda. We should the Fact Checking so last night or two nights ago, when the hospital was reportedly bombed by the missile, everyone reported on that as such because hamas said it was so. A couple of hours later it was clear that it was an Islamic Jihad missile that had fired and it was in 500 people killed, maybe 10 to 50 but every life lost is a tragedy but the scale of this was different so why is that important . Because yesterday there were riots in beirut, riots in them on. A synagogue was torched and destroyed, jewish people are being harassed all over the world. So, misreporting leads to violence, and weve seen this as a Jewish Community before. How many parents do i know didnt send their children to school last friday because they were afraid, because hamas said it was a global day of rage against our people. So, i can tell you this. The Jewish Community is united behind the state of israel, it has a right to defend itself but we are still deeply concerned about the trends that mary was talking about, this is the same week that the fbi released the hate crimes data, up 30 some odd percent last year. So it was already at a historic high and in light of this tragedy in the region, its growing even more. By the way, thats what hamas wants, this is the sad thing. Hamas wants to kill jews, they want to foment war and they dont care how many people they have to sacrifice to pursue their ends, like the innocent palestinians, like the murder of israelis, they are really the tragedy here. I heard from my own intel sources that the coverage of events is perhaps more tied to actions than at any other point. Our information was from two u. S. Government officials who said 100 to 300 people were killed and not the 500 people and that was likely a misfired Islamic Jihad missile. You guys did it right, you were more slow and deliberate about this but Everybody Needs to do better because lives are on the line. And i think sometimes we forget that. No ones going anywhere, theres so much more to talk about. We will all be right back. Righ. Ugh, ill deal with this tomorrow. You wont. 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I did it my way purposes, if you will, of terrorism, is to destroy innocence, but to use the terror to change life for everybody, right, so to change life for all israelis, not just the ones murdered and taken hostage, to terrify all americans, and i wonder what the response to it is, because people are justifiably scared. People ask me, because i work in the news, should i send my kid to school . Should i send my kid to jewish preschool. People are scared. What should people do . Just to your first point, is the u. S. Code of terrorism is using crimes of violence to intimidate or coerce a civilian population, like you say, or to effect the government. Thats exactly why these techniques are used, and whethers that to terrorize, intimidate, or coerce israelis or americans, thats the goal there. And i think people need to be vigilant, they need to be cautious. They should not be, you know, turning on their neighbors, but i think they should be on the lookout for warning signs. Theres no sort of checklist of things that would let you know that someone like the person who made the violent attack on the palestinian child and his mother in illinois, theres no set of checklists that would let you know that was about to happen. But you know, people who seem to be starting to talk more and more about extremist ideologies here in this case, wed be talking about saying more and moreng antismithic things or saying more and more antimuslim or antipalestinian things, people who maybe are starting to talk for the first time about acquiring weapons or going to the firing range to practice using weapons that they already have, people that seem to be spending excessive amounts of time in online spaces reading about this and reading about it from just one perspective and not multiple perspectives, and things that are knownti to be sources oft disinformation as opposed to factbased reporting. All of these are some warning signs, and, you know, these are things that people need to think about, how could they report this . I know people are often times very reluctant to report something as a bystander they find bunusual activity, but research has shown a time and again among talking to families of people who have been convicted of terrorismo crimes here in america that there was somebody a bystander, a family member, a teacher, a coach, a Community Member who knows that person well who really thought something was off with someone who went on to commit an act of terrorism. And its scary to think about how you report this, but these are the kind of situations where that type of vigilance and that type of being willing to engage with others and maybe you start by going to your community if you have one and report it there, see how they want to handle it. Maybe you go straight to Law Enforcement, other trusted individuals. Be if you see something and youre observing behaviors that are demonstrably different in what youve seen before or are accelerating or worse you need to be thinking hard about taking some sort of action, and by action i dont mean arming yourself and confronting. I mean reporting or looking into it more. We got to know each other because we haveno focused like laser beam on rising antisemitism in this country. I have been particularly worried with this intersection with domestic politics, particularly in the Republican Party. Yeah. So, we were at a 9, right, on a 1 to 10. We now have something that has pulled off the curtain, pulled off all the clothes, and the naked, rank, antisemitism in america shocks and horrifies me, and i wonder how a feel. I we went from a 0 to a 9, from a 9 to an 11, and i think what the last 10, 12 days show us is antisemitism isnt sole domain of any side of the spectrum. We see similar rhetoric whether they hate the jewish people or hate the jewish state, and its not unique to america. Its happening around the world. In sydney the progaza rally evolved into calls to gas the jews. Let me be clear, an innocent life lost, palestinian or israeli is a crime. We should note that, and thats sad and a tragedy. But in the wake of the murder and torture and kidnapping of over 1,400 israelis, the rallies that are happening, calling for palestinian to be free from the river to the sea, thats a call to eliminate jews, eliminate the jewish state. When jewish people hear that it feeds into their sense they have their people were murdered and University President s diter in calling it s out. Why . I dont know. A woman i respect dara horn wrote a book called people love dead jews, and for people in our community, that book really struck a nerve. Again, i understand that theres a tragedy afoot, but the murder of these people, that should have been called out and condemned everywhere instantly. Yet i heard the dithering and ceos have gotten better, but i cant remember anyone hesitating after 9 11. Anyone saying, maybe we should listen to al qaeda. I cant remember anyone saying after isis murdered and butchered yazidi women, people in syria, anyone saying, lets listen to what the islamic caliphate has the say. Why do we take hamas point of view, a designated terror organization, a hate group, after these barbaric atrocities. I dont understand it. I wrote this took it could here about when you dehumanize people, when you use dehumanizing rhetoric, it could silence people. Mary, jonathan, thank you so much. Quick break for us. Well be right back. Ch quick break for us well be right back. Store your things until youre ready. Then we deliver to your new home across town or across the country. 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