Transcripts For MSNBCW Alex 20240703

And water, that line of trucks has been waiting at the Rafah Crossing on the egyptian side of the gaza border because of israels blockade, the trucks have been unable to cross into gaza where more than 2 Million People have been without many of those basic necessities for 11 days, until now. After arriving in israel today President Biden announced that the u. S. Had convinced israel to let humanitarian aid into gaza via egypt. The deal is strict, and it is fragile. All of the aid must be inspected before entering gaza and it must go to civilians. If hamas steals or diverts any of that aid, the deal will end. After repairs to the Border Crossing are completed, this aid should start moving on friday at the earliest. And it is needless to say, but it has been a very long and very difficult week already. Today, President Biden announced his fifth speech fifth about this war, is it for eight pm eastern in the u. S. , tomorrow, which is coming on the heels of his Diplomatic Mission to israel. As the only american president to visit israel in wartime, bidens visit today was a powerful show of support for a country that is still reeling from hamass brutal and deadly terrorist attack. But while President Biden reiterated american support for israel selfdefense, and he expressed his empathy for a grieving country enraged by loss, biden also offered a warning. I caution this, that while you feel that rage, dont be consumed by it. After 9 11, we were enraged in the United States. While we sought justice and got justice, we also made mistakes. There is always cost. It requires being deliberate. Requires asking very hard questions. It requires clarity about the objectives and an honest assessment about whether the path you are on will achieve those objectives. The vast majority of palestinians are not hamas. Hamas does not represent the palestinian people. Finds cautionary notes were sounded against a backdrop of anger, spreading across the middle east and sparking fears that the israel Hamas Conflict could engulf the region. Rages erupting across the arab world. Thousands of protesters converged on the u. S. Embassy in beirut. We are here to the arab people wake up. In turkey, demonstrators rushed the israeli consulate in istanbul. They are all reacting to what palestinians call a massacre. That explosion at the hospital in gaza city. I heard an Almighty Screech followed by a large large explosion. Part of the ceiling of the Operating Room fell. Bodies can be seen laying on the ground and children among the victims. The explosion, which the Palestinian Health Ministry Says killed 471 people yesterday that explosion shook the globe while hamas still claims the blast was an israeli airstrike, President Biden today said u. S. Military data indicates the strike did not come from israel. A spokesperson for the White House National Security Council told nbc news that the u. S. Assesses that israel was not responsible for the explosion that killed thousand of protesters clashed with Security Forces in turkey, prompting israels National Security council to urge Israeli Citizens there to leave as soon as possible. Police used Water Cannons to disperse protesters, who tried to enter the israeli consulate in a stan bowl. Thousands gathered outside the and its not clear the air patience will take the assessment of israel and the United States. Last night into today, there were massive protests across the middle east and north africa, in egypt, yemen and tunisia and iraq. In iran, there were chants of death to france, england, america and the sinus. In the west bank, two teenage Palestinian Protesters were killed by Israeli Defense forces, the idf. Thousands of protesters clashed with Security Forces in turkey, prompting israels National Security council to urge Israeli Citizens there to leave as soon as possible. Police used Water Cannons to disperse protesters, who tried to enter the israeli consulate in a stan bowl. Thousands gathered outside the u. S. And israeli embassies in amman, jordan yesterday, and scores attempted to storm the Israeli Embassy there as well. In lebanon, the u. S. State department issued its highest level of Travel Advisory, a level four do not travel warning. Part of that warning was about the massive demonstrations that erupted yesterday, and the potential for violence from enraged protesters. But the top line warning in that Travel Advisory was about the increased exchanges of fire between israel and the terrorist group hezbollah, on the lebanon israel border, and the potential for this war to open up a whole new front. Joining me now from beirut, lebanon, is nbc news Foreign Correspondent matt broadly. Matt, thank you for joining me tonight. I know that you saw the protests at the u. S. Embassy in beirut today over that deadly explosion at the hospital. Can you tell me more about what that scene was like . Yeah, we at the protest right outside of that embassy. We were there just at the end, and thats when we saw we could still smell the tear gas, we could see the police in the military. Thats they were putting the barricades up that had been taken down by the protesters and their clearly had been quite a lot of damage that had been done. The protesters actually set fire to one of the commercial building that was next to the road, leading up to the embassy. By the protesters never really made it close to the embassy. There are so many barricades that were between the protesters and the embassy, they never got close to the actual structure. But we were there earlier and at hezbollah protest in a neighborhood of beirut called this is a hezbollah sean hold. And we were talking to people and Hearing Speakers and they are you could really get the sense that for the folks that were there, there was no daylight between the United States and israel. They were speaking about the United States and israel in the same condemning terms. They were speaking about joe biden and benjamin netanyahu, hes really prime minister, in the same terms. So, for them, it was exactly the same. The United States has always been and was in just last night complicit in what they considered to be the same crimes that israel has been committing against the palestinian people, and was complicit, again, and what they said was that bombing of the possible hospital last night. They did not by israels line that this was Palestinian Jihadist groups who launched an errant missile, and that happened to land on that hospital. That was what we heard from the israelis and, again, this morning from the United States government. They thought that that was a lie. They said that this was absolutely the israelis who launched that weapon, and they said that this has long been part of their complaint against the israelis. They used the word genocide, and a massacre. They said i spoke with one protester who was there at a hezbollah rally. Heres what she told me. Its really these railings have left us, as our people, no other chance or no other choice but to resist. And resistance means that you have to resist with whatever it means you have got, including armed resistance. So, as you can see, for them, this is a resistance that does not just include the palestinians. This is not just about defending the palestinian cause. For the folks who i was speaking to today, and for the folks who have been brought out throughout the entire arab world for this day of rage, this is the second time we have seen a day of rage in the past week, this is not just about defending the palestinian cause. This is about an arab cause that spans the entire region. Alex . Matt bradley, doing some Essential Reporting on the. Ground matt, thank you for that. And please stay safe. Joining me now here in new york are ayman mohyeldin, host of ayman on msnbc, who has, of course, reported extensively on this region, and michelle goldberg, Opinion Columnist for the new york times. Thank you both for being here. Ayman mohyeldin, before we begin this Hour Television you and i were talking about the meaning of these protests in the arab street. And look, a lot of these are countries who know how to crackdown on protests if they want to. Yeah. And i wonder if you think this is a signal that these leaders want americans and israelis to see the sort of restive beyond restive the anger and arab countries, or whether there is a legitimate concern that they are losing control of the population. So, there is the short term in the long term. And the short term a lot of these are a bridge eames that are, as you mentioned, undemocratic and our authoritarian and crackdown on protests about anything know that this singular issue is probably the one issue where these governments have to give a lot of leeway to protests. We have been living a little bit under a fallacy in the west, because we hear about the abraham accords. We think that there is a genuine peace treaty between egypt and israel, because they have not been at war for 40 years. But the truth is, it is not the kind of piece that exists on the street between countries like you think france and germany after world war ii. That is not what is on the ground. And so, as a result of that, over the years the palestinian issue, while it has been pushed aside on the tables of arab leaders they talk about it, but they dont really do much about it the truth is it has always been a central unifying issue across the arab world. So, when they see the images of what plays out in the occupied west bank, the settlements, and now the war in gaza, the several wars, it mobilizes the street in a way that, in some of their own domestic issues, are unable to mobilize these people. And as a result, it puts a lot of pressure on these fragile governments, because they are not going to crack down. They may, ultimately, but they are not going to do it in the short term. And in the long term, they just reinforces the image, the belief, that a lot of the arab street has, that these regimes are either coopted by the west or are working on behalf of western interest in the region. They genuinely do not care about the arab street or, specifically, about the palestinian issue beyond just lip service. In that way, the timing of President Bidens trip, that it coincided with the strike on the hospital, even though american and Israeli Intelligence israel had nothing to do with this. The timing could not have been worse in some ways for President Biden, because his name is now being invoked on the arab street in this protest. It could not have been worse. And i do not recall the last time in my life that an american leader was rebuffed by very proamerican regimes, including the king of jordan, the Palestinian Authority president , as well as the president of egypt. Yes, the president the alathari and palestinian president , Mahmoud Abbas but to see the american president arriving to average, and trying to bring some of the Major Players around a table and the rebuffed or rejected, i think, is not a good look for america in the region. Basically, the message that it is sending is that we know what side you are on. We are not going to accept, as we heard today from the president of egypt where the king of jordan what you want us to do. We will not just simply allow you to impose what your outcome of the situation is going to be, specifically when it comes to the issue of refugees. The egyptian president here was very clear, basically saying that, if you want refugees to be dealt with humanely, israel should take them to the negative neghev desert jordan will not taken palestinian refugees. Egypt not taken palestinian refugees. Its a humanitarian issue. This is rooted that played out and gaza cannot be dumped onto the arab countries and absolve israel of the humanitarian crisis unfolding there. And michelle, when you talk about bidens calibration of how to manage this moment, on the one hand, he is there to show empathy and to express sympathetic rage, if you will, at the brutal Terror Attack, but at the same time issue a word of warning. And i think he so beautifully hit on the sort of contradiction inherent in this moment, in your piece and the new york times. I will read an excerpt from it. I can empathize with liberal jews, both in israel and throughout the diaspora who feel too overwhelmed at this moment of great fear and vulnerability to protest the escalating suffering inflicted on palestinians. It is not fair that events are moving too quickly to give people time to grieve the victimization of their own community before being asked to try to prevent the victimization of others. Nevertheless, as atrocities are piled on atrocities, i hope jews will attend to what is being threatened in our name. And all americans should pay attention, given how much our country under writes israels military. And i do think just to go back to this point about empathy, i understand why people throughout the world, and particularly, the arab world to see biden there, literally embracing b b bibi and think these are two governments that are just handinhand. At the same time, knowing israelis and knowing how they bristle under criticism, and also use the often unfair criticism they get not all of it but, for example, we see with his Hospital Bombing that there was a kind of widespread condemnation before it became increasingly clear that the story about kind of an israeli airstrike looked more and more unlikely. But often when you hear when you talk to israelis, we are going to be criticized no matter what, and that can to easily be twisted into, so it doesnt matter what we do. And i really think that the only way that biden can kind of quietly get israel to take even the smallest step back, to pause the beginning of a Ground Invasion, to try and get some humanitarian aid let through is to kind of show public daylight between them and to also phrase his warning to them not, you dont want to make the same mistake you have made before, for example, in lebanon. But you dont want to make the same mistake that we we have made before in iraq and afghanistan. Yes. To phrase it in a humble way i think that is the right message if you are trying to get through to israelis, but i also understand why that does not translate in so much of the world. Right. And also, invoking the specter of the wars in iraq and afghanistan may be a useful rhetorical tool to convince israelis, look, we mean the best here. But what it does when you talk about the arab world to invoke the specter of that is deeply problematic. And stay on the 9 11 analogy, if you play it out over the span of the outcome, the United States wanted to go after osama bin laden. They ended up invading afghanistan, toppling the taliban, 20 years of war. They then use the concocted excuse of wmds, which everyone believes and now knows was pushed on as ally to invade iraq. And look at how those two countries turned out. In a case of afghanistan, the taliban are back. In a case of iraq, its an ethnonationalists they predominately controlled by iranianbacked iraqi militias. We got rid of alqaeda. What did we get in return . We got ice is two point oh and we got years of terrorism across the United States and europe that still haunts us to this day. So, i think, to michels point, which is very important, anyone who is trying to convince the israelis, take from me, learn from our mistakes, the pain in israel, the suffering in israel, about the revenge may end up being something that produces an outcome that is much more disastrous. Everybody keeps saying we are not going to in israel everybody says we are not going to turn into the status quo. A very important point. But the status quo means, does that include freedom for the palestinians . Are you going to put gaza, without hamas, under a blockade . Or are you going to get rid of hamas, but keep the palestinians blockaded inside the Palestinian Gaza strip and in an open air prison return not to the status quo for the palestinians. And that answer, i have not heard a Single Person say no. You pointed this out, michelle. The language coming from the right in america is not doing any service to any sort of accord happening in coming from the right, which kind of then licenses similarly inflammatory expulsion is expulsionist language even before these horrific massacres you had many people in the Israeli Government who talked about the needs to who already wanted to expel palestinians from the 1967 borders with israel and all the land of greater israel. You already had that tendency. These are people who, in many cases, devoted their lives, certainly in the case of netanyahu, to avoid in the creation of a palestinian state. That is why netanyahu, in some ways, has built up hamas as an alternative, so that he could undercut the plo and he could undercut the secular nationalists. So, here is no way that you are going to see netanyahu oversee the kind of understanding that the palestinians, contrary to what Jared Kushner and the rest of them thought that, this idea that the palestinians could just be kind of ignored and you could make peace without them, and keep this going forever that is not possible. But he is not the man who is going to be able to transcend the situation. Thats explicitly being asked, how does this war and what does it actually mean . We could go on all evening. We have to leave it there, my friends. Ayman mohyeldin, it is always good to see you. Michelle, you are staying around because we cant let you go yet. [laughter] we have much more this evening. Donald trump is back inside a manhattan courtroom today. Is the metrics did not go over well with the presiding judge. We will have more on that. But first, jim jordan just got the fewest votes for speaker in modern american political history. So, why not give it another shot . Thats coming right up. Stay with us. Remember the things you loved. Before asthma got in the way . Fasenra is an addon treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. Its designed to target and remove them and helps prevent asthma attacks. Fasenra is not for sudden Breathing Problems or other eosinophilic conditions. Allergic reactions may occur. Dont stop your Asthma Treatments without talking with your doctor. Tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. Headache and sore throat may occur. Tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Get back to better breathing. Ask your doctor about fasenra. The new Iphone 15 Pro is here. Get back to better breathing. Built with titanium, and featuring the most Powerful Iphone Camera yet. Get it with boost infinite and transcend to a wireless utopia. The new titanium Iphone 15 Pro. On us, no tradein needed. Enjoy unlimited wireless and the latest iphone every year for 60 a month. The honorable jim jordan of the state of ohio has received 199. The honorable Hakeem Jeffries of the state of new york has received 212. No person having received a majority, the whole number of votes cast by surname, a speaker has not been elected. Failing to elect a speaker is becoming something of a ritual in the House Of Representatives. Today, republicans made their second attempt at Electing Ohio Congressman Trump ally jim jordan to the speakership. And in the end, congressman jordan received one fewer vote for speaker than he did yesterday, earning him the rear distinction of having received the fewest votes of any official speaker nominee in modern american history, which is really something. Perhaps, as a consequence of this, some republicans and democrats are now openly considering the idea of giving more power to the house is understudy speaker, a man named Patrick Mchenry, a third speaker vote could take place as soon as tomorrow at noon. And republican opponents of mr. Jordan say they expect to lose even more support in the next vote, which may actually be part of their plan. Cnn is reporting that jordan opponents have been person purposefully staggering there no votes over multiple ballots in order to show growing opposition to jim jordan, and also, apparently, to prolong the pain of all of this as much as possible. Joining me now is washington democrat, congresswoman Primala Jayapal. She is also the chair of the Congressional Progressive Congress caucus. Congresswoman Primala Jayapal, thank you for being here. They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Are we witnessing and sanity unfold on the for the House Of Representatives . Alex, we totally are. But i just want to say that its not just the last two days. Its really this entire year. When you think about this, we are on the set we just completed the 17th vote for speaker in mine nine months. And so i think we have to just recognize that the Republican Party is having a civil war of their own. They are unable to govern. And any time that we have gotten something done i think you and i talked about this the last time i was on it is because democrats stepped up and gave the votes to get those things done, so we wouldnt default on our debts, so that we would not shut down the government. And i think what we have to get to is a place where republicans, some group of republicans, recognize that a bipartisan path forward, where we decide together what are the key issues that must get done for the american people, that have a bipartisan path forward, and we get those things done. Because this Republican Party is unwilling. They cannot govern. And it is, again, on democrats to make sure that we are able to move forward on these essential issues for the american people. It sounds, from the reporting, like there are some Back Channel Discussions between democrats and republicans about empowering the speaker pro tem, we called the understudy speaker, Patrick Mchenry, to take a longer term position. Is that palatable to House Progressives . Or is it just a sort of moderates project only . I think that nobody has been unofficially there is nobody to negotiate with. So, there is no official negotiations. That is going to be left to our leader, leader Hakeem Jeffries to negotiate that. What we have said and what he has said in his oped is that bipartisan means bipartisan. It means that democrats have to be able to have a voice in what comes to the floor, in making sure that bad bills dont come forward, and making sure that we are just putting forward the things that we know are necessary to keep the government open, for example. So, i think that there is no details here, because we dont have anybody to negotiate with. If republicans get to the place at the bottom of the barrel, and they are almost there, alex, but apparently not yet. But if they get to that place at the bottom of the barrel, we are ready as democrats to listen. But it has got to be something that allows us to hold them accountable, and it has got to be something that truly is bipartisan, which means, taking into account the democrats wishes and the fact that we, essentially, are the governing force in the house. So, there will be a price extracted if the next speaker has democratic votes behind him or her. I do wonder, as you watch this chaos unfold, the fact that there is another vote scheduled tomorrow, what is the mood inside the Democratic Caucus . This is still it may be a house run by republicans and run is a loose term in this case, but it is also your house. I wonder how you all are processing this and thinking about the road ahead. It has been really depressing, i have to tell you. This is my seventh year. So, i have only been there three terms, this is only my fourth term. Ive never seen anything like this. The reality is that the fundamental task of governing the first task of governing, is you pick a speaker. And we to buckle at the beginning of the year after 15 rounds of voting, at least Kevin Mccarthy was going up in his vote count. Now, jim jordan is going down. If he insists on another vote count tomorrow, to me it is just humiliation. But its also a waste of the american peoples time. We have serious issues in front of us. And we have American Families that are hurting. We have International Crises that we have to deal with. And the fact that republicans are continuing to hold out, and that socalled moderate republicans this is a beef with me, as you know we call them moderate. But they need to stand up. They need to come over to the democratic side and say, look, we are going to put people over politics. That is what democrats do every day. And instead, they are sort of digging in. And so we are ready. We are waiting. We want to get back to work. But lets be clear. Republicans have the majority. Even though democrats are governing, and all the situations where we have gotten things done. They need to come to us, and we are ready and willing. But it has got to be an actual bipartisan path forward. In other words, the call will not go to voice mail. You guys will pick it up. They just need to dial the number in earnest. Congresswoman pramila jayapal, thank you for your time tonight. Good luck this week. We will be watching. Thank you, alex. Coming up what happens when you try to get elected speaker of the house by issuing Death Threats against members of your own party . We are going to have the latest on novel House Republican strategies to figure out who their next leader will be. And later this hour, jack smiths latest move suggests he may be Scaling Back Part of his investigation into donald trump. Stay with us. If we want a more viable future for our kids, we need to find more sustainable ways of doing things. Americas plastic makers are investing billions of dollars in new technologies and creating Plastic Products that are more recyclable. Durable. And dependable. Our goal is a cleaner, healthier planet for generations to come. For a better tomorrow, were focused on making plastics better today. I wouldnt have my business if it wasnt for my website. Once i decided to go with godaddy, the process was seamless. I was able to create my website on my own. To have it be exactly what i want it to be. Be able to integrate my appointment app. Godaddy was able to provide everything that i needed. The whole image of who i am and what empire is is presented through my godaddy website. Hi, im darlene and i lost 40 pounds with golo is presented through my godaddy website. In just eight months. Golo has really taught me how to eat better and feel better. As long as you eat the right food groups in the right amounts, thats all it is. Its so simple and it works. Golo was the smartest thing i ever did. Woman why did we choose safelite . We were loading our suv when. Crack safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when theyd arrive with a replacement we could trust. Thats service the way we want it. Okay. Singers safelite repair, safelite replace. I want to read you a Text Exchange purportedly between the wife of Republican Congressman don bacon of nebraska, and an anonymous ally of House Speaker want to be jim jordan. The anonymous text their rights, why is your husband causing chaos by not supporting jim jordan . Bacons wife replies, who is this . The text the, rights your husband will not hold any Political Office ever again. Okay, now. That threat did not work on congressman don bacon. Today, he voted against jim jordan for speaker for a second time. And heres what the congressman had to say after that vote. They are messing with the wrong guy. Im not going to be cowed by this stuff. Other Republican Congress members who voted against jordan also spoke today about threats and intimidation that their campaigns received. So, the Death Threats are maybe an actual strategy here. Tonight, Republican Congress person Mariannette Millermeeks says she received credible Death Threats and a barrage of threatening calls, since she switched her vote in order to oppose jordan in round two in voting today. And she had it, one thing i cannot stomach or support is a bully. We are going to unpack that right now with michelle goldberg, Opinion Columnist for the new york times. Michelle, first of all, republicans speaking out against belize is slightly cold comfort, given who the titular, the sort of nominal head of the party is. Right. Although i guess its impressive in that the moderate kind of Quote Unquote moderate wing will pass for moderate republicans have been so incredibly spineless that, i think, most people expected him to fold. They thought that they would fold on the first vote and now it seems like, increasingly, like the attempts to threaten them and Death Threats right. And the thing is, Death Threats, in the past, has been very effective in, again, getting the republicans to do the will of the trump base. We saw that, for example, in Mckay Coppins talking to mitt romney, and mitt romney saying that his colleagues were saying that they wanted to vote to impeach, but they could not afford the i cant remember millions of dollars the in personal security. And they were worried about people going after them. And so that has been the sort of m o of the farright Republican Party, not to make these threats themselves. But when they say that they are going to unleash the base, they know very well with that entails. Release the kraken, in the words of sydney powell. I do think there is also a difference between the Death Threats issued from trump and his followers, and that was issued by jim jordan, a man whose support is only declining here. The question is and i ask you this as someone i know you dont know the answer. But do you think how do you think this jordan saga ends. I should not say jordan saga. The speaker saga ends. I dont know. My guess i think that it will probably end with someone like Patrick Mchenry drawing an extension . Yes, because it just does not seem like there is any other way out, short of the kind of matt gaetz caucus. If the matt gaetz caucus could not bring themselves to vote for steve scalise, mr. Kinder, gentler, do that i dont think they are going to find themselves able to get more into line to someone who is more moderate than that. It is very hard for me to imagine that some democrats i mean, some republicans will peel away and make a deal with democrats. But our politics now are in a place where all outcomes are very hard to imagine, but something has to happen. And its clear that they cant get it done on their own. The only question is what kind of price democrats are going to extract from that. Because they plan on it, as we heard Primala Jayapal saying earlier. Michelle goldberg, thank you for being here with me tonight, my friend. Coming up, donald trump was admonished by a judge today for talking too loudly in the courtroom, but aides the former president s words outside the court that could land him in hot water. The latest from the trump trials with andrew weissmann, that is next. It immediately feels like somebodys poking directly on the nerve. I recommend sensodyne. Sensodyne toothpaste goes inside the tooth and calms the nerve down. And my patients say you know doc, it really works. There are some things that go better. Together. Like your workplace benefits. And retirement savings. With voya, considering all your financial choices together. Can help you be better prepared for unexpected events. Voya. Well planned. Well invested. Well protected. She runs and plays like a puppy again. His 2s are perfect hes a brand new dog, all in less than a year. When people switch their dogs food from kibble to the farmers dog, they often say that it feels like magic. 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Donald trump was back inside a new york courtroom today, where the judge in his civil fraud case admonished the former president for speaking too loudly to his lawyers while a witness testified against him. But it is trumps talking outside the courtroom that could run afoul of gag orders placed on him and both this new york civil case and in the federal criminal case regarding his attempts to steal the 2020 election. Trump is now appealing that federal gag order as new reporting from the Washington Post hints Special Counsel jack smith may be scaling down the investigation. Smiths team has reportedly withdrawn a Subpoena Seeking documents from trumps Save America Pac which raised more than 100 million by pushing false claims that the election was stolen. Joining me now to help decipher all of this is andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel and cohost of the indispensable Msnbc Podcast Prosecuting donald trump. Dont roll your eyes, i really mean its indispensable. Thank you. Andrew, how do you read the sort of indicators here . Why is It Retraction . Rescinding the subpoena on something that seems like a very fruitful line of inquiry. I dont know, im going to give you my educated guess. I just dont think its a lack of time. Jack smith is a hard charging prosecutor. I dont see him in a case of this high profile and something that appears to be worthwhile to pursue. It does mean hell get to the end of it, doesnt seem like the kind of thing he would be like, im going to withdraw because im going home. Im trying to think of what you would be potentially withdrawing a subpoena like this. This is a pac that was paying for legal fees and i can see that there could have been litigation over this in the grand jury context, which we would not know about, because its under seal, dealing with whether it was going to interfere with someones Sixth Amendment right or reveal Attorney Client privileged information, so there was some kind of structure worked out with the court as to how they could get this information without revealing privileged information. That would be my educated guess. So woe be to those that think this line of investigation may be closed entirely. It could be. It doesnt seem like jack . Thats right. What about the unnamed coconspirators . We have our thoughts about who they are in this federal case. I think theyre pretty well established in the federal case. There is one people arent quite sure. There i do think that jack smiths main eye on the prize is keeping the March 4th Trial date and doing nothing to interfere with that. I wouldnt be surprised if after that you see other federal charges. So the priority is get donald trump into a courtroom on this. Yes. The gag order that judge chutkan in this case has set, or as we say, the the bail restrictions. The bail restrictions, more to the point, to be exact. Trump is walking right up to that line, what hes saying about the courts and the case. Hes not naming names but it almost seems like a foregone conclusion hes going to violate this at some time. Judge chutkan said this trial date is not moving. Right. That may be the biggest stick she has to wield against trump, moving it out. She has a bigger one. Jail time . Yeah. I think its going to depend on, obviously, he has to violate, and its going to depend on how he violates it. If he were to name and threaten a witness or a family member, if he were to say the kinds of things he said to mark milley, you can imagine the District Judge coming down very hard. And when i say very hard, i dont mean thats the kind of thing you could imagine a judge taking that so seriously. But if its something like, i think yesterday or maybe today he used the term thug, he was told biden and his thugs. Exactly. He was told not to use that with respect to the prosecutors and the Prosecution Team this goes right to that line. And you could imagine, if he continues, that his being admonished or the lawyer is being told to make sure your client cuts that out. I think the violation, the nature of the violation, i think, is going to dictate what happens to him. So if he does what hes been doing with respect to mark milley again, which so far he has not, i think hes going to be playing with fire. As is his want. You have pointed us out on the podcast this week. The kenneth chesebro, Sidney Powell trial. Jury selection starts on friday. The trial officially starts next monday. This friday. I think people havent clocked this. This is going to be the State Of Georgia laying out its evidence in a really important case, especially as it dovetails with the federal case. There is so much going on because there is that new york case, the deposition, the so much litigation over donald trump. But the criminal case, the january 6th criminal case, the Jury Selection is starting friday. And in earnest on monday. And we know that the openings will happen at the latest on november 3rd. And so, as you said, during the trial, it is true. Donald trump is not one of the defendants sitting there. But he might as well be in terms of the nature of the proof thats going to be coming out. So we are going to learn a lot more about the nature of the scheme thats charged. And his big sprawling indictment, so there will be a lot to talk about. There always is, especially with you, my friend. Andrew weissman, as always. Coming up after the break, what will happen to the at least 199 hostages taken by terrorists on october seventh . Dennis ross joins me to discuss the least worst options on the table. Stay with us. Tide is busting laundrys biggest myth. That cold water cant clean. Cold water, on those stains . Cold water cant clean tough stains . Id say that myth is busted. Turn to cold, with tide. Is it possible my network could take my business id sto the next level . Sted. It is with comcast business. Powering all your devices with gigspeed wifi. And you get fast downloads and uploads. Pick it up pick it up oh we got this because its powered by The Next Generation 10g network. More speed for your business . Its not just possible. Its happening. Get started for 59. 99 a month for 12 months. Plus, ask how to get an 800 prepaid card with a qualifying internet bundle. To those living in limbo, comcast business, powering possibilities. Waiting desperately to learn the fate of a loved one, especially to families of the hostages, you are not alone. We are working with partners throughout the region, pursuing every avenue to bring home those being held captive by hamas. That was President Biden in israeli, today addressing the families and loved ones of those taken hostage in the brutal Terror Attack of october 7th. Their rescue remains elusive. And that is because, as dennis ross, former u. S. Envoy to the middle east writes in the atlantic this week, there are almost no good choices. On the one hand, the terrorist leaders no doubt hoped the hostages would be a deterrent against israels launching of an all out for war against them. On the other hand, hamas allies knew that if they could trade their hostages for a number of militants held in israeli prisons, that would be heroes among palestinians who say those held in the israeli jails as part of the struggle against occupation. Indeed, the spectacle of hamas gaining the release of prisoners in spite of its Killing Spree of israelis would allow its leaders to claim that their way worked. Joining me now is the author himself, ambassador dennis ross. Counselor at the Washington Institute for policy and a former u. S. Envoy to the middle east. Ambassador ross, thank you for the time. I found this to be fascinating reading and i wonder if you could sort of recount how the 2011 hostage negotiation, where netanyahu traded i think it was 1000 jailed palestinians for a single soldier, gilad shalit. How the specter of the exchange figures into the potential hostage negotiations today. It has a backdrop that affects both sides. Hamas leaders felt given that experience we have hostages, the israelis will surely make trades. Including that leader of hamas in gaza today. Probably one of the masterminds of what was done, Ismail Haniyeh was one of those released. So they think, they have the experience, the israelis will be willing to make trades because of that. On the israeli side, its because of that there is a hesitancy to eight and like. That is also a very deep reluctance to do anything that looks like hamas is being rewarded for what they did. So the impetus on the israeli side to talk to anybody about this is really quite limited. Its much more to talk with countries like qatar or turkey or egypt that have a relationship with hamas, especially qatar that is a bankroller of hamas. And obviously, it has the ability to threaten to withhold money and maybe even gut relations. So we are clearly trying to work with those that have leverage on hamas and they have an interest, qatar and turkey, have an interest in trying to say, we have a relationship with hamas and here is the die off that relationship. But to prove it has value, they have to deliver. I wonder, and the pace, that negotiation seems too fraud and complex. You seem to suggest that an extraction or Rescue Operation might be the best option. Can you talk a little bit more about that, given the situation on the ground, both in terms of the tunnels, where we presume the hostages are being kept, and the actual deteriorating situation in gaza more broadly . Rescue operations are always the last thing to take place because you need intelligence, and it takes time to get it. Then you have to figure out how well the hostages are defended in these places. Are the places booby trapped . Are the hostages front and center . There is a whole series of challenges that raised a question of, are you sure you can save them more than getting them killed . But then youre wearing it against the option of is at a negotiation or is it and it would be easy for the israelis to say, we dont need to the Rescue Operations if the channels were using right now it look like theyre paying off. At this point, that isnt happening. No one can inflation, may brothers a Circumstance Under which hamas will fold under the pressure from qatar or turkey. That they will release the women and children. And if thats the case, it differs the use of the Rescue Operation as an option. So i think we have to see a little bit more time, it has to go by, but again, you said at the top. None of the options are good. And hamas is not the kind of group that, hey, doesnt follow through on threats it makes. Its also not the kind of group that wants to give up something for nothing. Yeah, it is complicated to say the least. You report in your piece in the atlantic, youve heard reports the u. S. Has already deployed a Hostage Rescue Unit to israel to assist with possible coordination. We can imagine whats happening behind the scenes, but your assessment here is quite illuminating. Ambassador dennis ross, thank you so much for your time tonight. My pleasure. That is our show for tonight. Now it is time for the last word with lawrence odonnell. Good evening, lawrence. Good evening alex. Were going to get into what might be the most important and possibly the most ignored ward President Biden said in israel today, which is the word alternatives. Hes talking about alternatives to a Ground Invasion by israel. So well try to figure out what the president was working on and those alternatives he says he discussed with israel