Transcripts For MSNBCW All 20240703

Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. As we come In The Air Tonight nbc news has obtained top secret hamas Planning Documents that show the extensive lengths of the group went to in preparation for saturdays mass murder. Quote, documents exclusively obtained by nbc news that hamas created entail plans to target Elementary Schools and a youth center, to kill as many people as possible, seize hostages, and quickly move them into the gaza strip. Documents were found on the bodies of Hamas Terrorists by israeli First Responders and shared with nbc news. Documents showcase pacific targets, for example separate aussie units, and even detail the exact vehicles that would be to be used along with specific routes to be followed. Is nbc news reports, quote one official said he was astounded by the agree of planning that went into ensuring maximum Civilian Casualties. He said i have never seen this kind of Detailed Planning for a hamas a terrorist attack. This all eyes are on gaza tonight as israel makes plans to launch a massive Ground Offensive in response to that attack. For many people the toll, i think, for what that will look like, is starting to sink in. It really does feel like we are on the cusp of an outright humanitarian disaster, if not already there, especially when you consider israels president had this to say when asked about the potential for Civilian Casualties in gaza. Its an entire nation out there that is responsible. Its not true, this rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved, its absolutely not true. They could have risen up. They could have fought against that evil regime which took over gaza. The last election in gaza was in 2006. Half of the residents of gaza are under a under 18. The comments come at a fraught moment in this conflict. Warned u. N. Representave that everyone living in northern gaza, including everybody in gaza city, had 24 hours to relocate to the south. That journey, according to an economist, about 12 kilometers or roughly seven and a half miles. To be clear, were talking about more than 1 Million People, many of them children without reliable access to power or running water. We are on day four of. That given one day to approve their lives and evacuate. There are only two roads that stretches the length of gaza. It is unknown how much damage theyve already sustained in the intense israeli bombardment. Whats more, most people in gaza cannot afford a private vehicle, they rely on a number of taxes and buses, but with gas already inshort supply, many will be forced to travel on four foot. United nations considers it impossible for such a movement to take place without devastating humanitarian congresses consequences, especially for the elderly, disabled, and hospitalized. The largest hospital in gaza in the north. The Health Organization says this is a death sentence, asking Health Workers to do so is beyond cruel. Earlier today a member of the Scottish Parliament showed a video of his mother in law who was caroline trapped in southern gaza. This wont be my last video. It will be from gaza towards where we are. 1 Million People water and still bombing them as they leave. But my thought is, all of these people in the hospital cannot be evacuated. Wheres humanity . Where are peoples hearts in the world, to let this happen, at this day and age . Dear lord, help us. Goodbye. In a public statement, hamas is instructing people to stay in the north of gaza, calling israels evacuation order, quote, psychological warfare. One gaza resident told me on the program last night, its not clear that the messages from hamas or anyone or getting through to anyone on the ground given the chaos and devastation. In israel, more than 360,000 reservists have been called up to serve, many of whom told news outlets theyve found a strong obligation to serve the country following saturdays attack. But it goes without saying, there are enormous risks involved. Urban warfare being contemplated is the most lethal, brutal form imaginable for both the soldiers waging it, and the 2 million civilians in harms way. Nbc news Foreign Correspondent Josh Lederman joins us now from the northern coast of israel in the city of nwaokorie. Josh, what are you hearing today as the mobilization seems to be nearing the beginning of some kind of Ground Offensive . Yes, thats, right were about three hours past the 24 hour deadline you just described for those 1. 1 Million People in the Northern Gas Strip to get to the south. I think a lot of people in the in israel in the gaza strip are bracing for original ground incursion, to start when the cloud clock struck midnight here in israel and in the gaza strip. So far we havent seen any signs of that major ground encourage and has yet begun, but we did hear from israels military that for the very first time, that we know about, since the Terror Attacks on saturday, Israeli Ground troops conducted raids into the gaza strip, where they went into gaza to not only tried to wipe out Hamas Terrorists and sees weapons, but also according to the idf, the israeli dissent defense forces, to search for evidence that could help them ultimately free the hostages that are located there. As far as we know, they didnt manage to get any hostages out during this one incursion, but it does seem to suggest that israel is building up very quickly towards a much larger offensive into the gaza strip as the humanitarian situation, as you described, is just getting worse and worse. In, we learned that as those civilians are trying to evacuate to the south, some 70 or so of them were killed today in three convoys that were heading south, by israeli airstrikes, and thats not only according to Israeli Health officials but also to local witnesses that nbc news was able to speak to within the gaza strip. There are real concerns tonight, within israel, that this crisis could soon start to expand beyond the gaza strip to the other fronts that israel has to deal with, most notably, up where i am, in northern israel, along the border with lebanon, where hezbollah made clear today that they do not plan to sit this out. They have been fairly restrained compared to what we have seen many times in the past. There have been some skirmishes between hezbollah and the Israeli Military over the last couple of days, but the leader is making clear that is some point they do plan to get involved. That has people in the community where im at, nahariya, and other areas along this border, very concerned, anxious, walking the streets, feeling like this is the calm before the storm, and they are worried that just like rockets have been falling daily into Southern Israel near the gaza strip, but they will also be facing that kind of Rocket Attacks here in northern israel. Josh, yes, i want to just follow up on now because i saw some reports today about exchanges of fire. Is a reuters camera man who was killed in Southern Lebanon where he was covering this earlier today. Is, are the hezbollah of rockets more advanced, less advanced, and the iron dome, which is the infamous system that has been able to shoot those rockets down, rather effectively, function as well on the north . Its a great question. One thing to remember is that both hamas and hezbollah get a lot of support from iran, a country that has a very advanced missile system. So in both of these countries its not simply pedestrians who are making their own rockets of out of whatever they can find. If training, they have support, they have supplies been brought in. That being said, hezbollah is known to have longer term rockets. In fact the air Defense System here in the north, its a layered air Defense System, where they have a special program in place to address rockets that are of the longer range, 60 to 100 mile range. And so they really are acutely aware of that threat from those longer range rockets that could reach deeper into israel because of the capabilities that hezbollah has amassed. Josh lederman in northern israel tonight. Thank you very much. We saw some live images as we went away from him out of gaza, which we have our eyes on, thinking of the people there. Daniel levy served as israeli negotiator under Prime Ministers barack and robbyn. He was the lead negotiator, one of the negotiators of as well. He joins me. Now daniel, it seems at this point essentially a foregone conclusion that there will be a largescale Ground Offensive by Israeli Forces into gaza. And someone who has been around the Israeli Government and watched successive iterations are both war and attempts at peace in israel, what is your understanding, or what is being communicated with the plan here . Obviously theres tremendous grief, shock, rage, desire for retribution, and intolerance of allowing hamas to continue to have the ability to stage ourselves like they did. Do you feel like you have a clear sense of the unity governments strategic objectives here . I think thats a very good question, chris. If i may relate to what you opened with, this documentation of the plans of hamas, that were apparently handed over to you guys, i cant speak to the veracity of that, if they are accurate that would speak, i think, to an even greater intelligence than we have thus far considered. But there was an Israeli Military spokesman who said that this was unbelievable planning for the mass killing of severely civilians. It just strikes me, what do you call, then, the cutting off of all food, water, electricity, telling 1 Million People to move, bombing them from the air, and the president who makes it clear that there is no distinction between combatants and civilian. Your balmy truly and people in a besieged area. That sounds to me like planning for the mass killing of civilians. I dont think like a comment there should be that slight. What is the Strategic Plan of the Israeli Government, as you ask . Look, i understand and feel the pain, the horror of what happened on the weekend, on october 7th. And of course there needs to be a response to that. But does the response take you to a place not only where you then commit a crime, violate International Law and your responsibilities, because selfdefense and war are also conducted according to rules. But does it also take you to a place which ends up not providing security between the opposite . Because the Israeli Government, it would seem, a ground invasion, yes, no, when exactly, what we see already in gaza, an even greater Scorched Earth on top of this previous attacks, one cannot but assume that this would engender even more pain and suffering, this time amongst palestinians, and palestinians are not going to sit and watch that. And your correspondent, josh, talked about what may happen on the northern front, in the more devastating than what is done in gaza, the more likely that front is to heat up. But youve also got the west bank and east jerusalem. Were seeing 15 palestinians killed today in the west bank. I dont want to paint to apocalyptic a scenario, but you can see a very significant expansion. This is the path to hell for both palestinians and israelis. To that, point obviously i think, front of mind right now, there are a few things. What is going to happen in gaza, but the notion of wider conflagration, hezbollah joining other fronts opening up, other Terrorist Attacks Around The World. There are many things that we have seen, again, all this has been history now for 75 years. We have seen the vast majority of things like, this attacks on civilians and jewish synagogues, i would see all of this, and that really, to me, is something thats going to be front of mind, and i imagine front of mind for Policy Makers in the u. S. , in the region, in the gulf states, in all those places. There have been very considerable public manifestations with politicians and across the region today, its on friday. You see Inside Israel that its very worrying escalation not only of action but of rhetoric. And where this is taking us, into this kind of bloody binary, this is the rhetoric of rwanda and the Western Balkans in the 90s. Remember, israel itself is a country where 20 of the polish the population is palestinian arab. We remember what palestinians called unity intifada, where you saw and escalation in gaza, but jerusalem, the west bank, Inside Israel. Were really gonna see neighbor against neighbor. Look, israel has tried, pretending that you could manage the palestinians without them having rights or freedoms that we take for granted. And that led to a certain hubris and complacency which no doubt fed into the colossal failure of the weekend. It seems israelis are now going to try to crush the palestinians decisively. Palestinians fear a second great displacement catastrophe, which is why gaza is full of refugees in the first place. They were moved from israel. What we havent tried, and i was part of oslo, i was part of those years, i dont think we have tried acknowledging palestinian humanity and equality. That will have to go both ways, of course. And actually giving palestinians the freedoms in the air quality that israelis deserve, because then will both have security, and also didnt do that because we continued our settlements, israel continued to entrench the occupation. I know that sounds pollyannaish today, but thats what we will have to circle back to if there ever is going to be Real Security for both peoples. Daniel levy, thank you so much for making time tonight. Thank you, chris. Coming up, ten days since republican mutely left the speakers are empty, they have decidedly insurrection insurrection is jim jordan is the guy they want, kind of. Will jordan be able to get enough support from his party to win the job . Thats next. Thats next. So, ask your doctor about botox®. Botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start. Its the 1 prescribed branded chronic migraine treatment. 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The House Republicans are trying to elect a speaker, today they voted, again, by secret ballot, again, this time to nominate jim jordan, the conference is second of many for speaker just this week, after the previous nominee, Steve Scalise, dropped out last night, about 24 hours, ago because he saw no way to get to the needed 217 votes of republicans. Jordan won today against a relatively unknown congressman from georgia, austin scott, who jumped into the race at the last minute, and the second vote on whether members would support short on the floor. The tally was 152 yes and 55 now and one present. Jordan is still really far from the 217 he will need to become the speaker. Then after that, republicans went home. But no speaker. House still in recess. You can bet there will be a lot of Furious Library Lobbying over the weekend. Bloom tender for speaker and second in line to the presidency as a cofounder of the farright House Freedom caucus, election denier, maga extremists, arguably the most involved in Donald Trumps attempted cool coup. Subpoena jordan to testify about what he knew about the insurrection. He ignored the subpoena from the house of congress. He is now vying to lead. He was endorsed for speaker by trump. He is a proxy for trump. A uniquely malevolent Malevolent Force wants to end the Constitutional Republic as we know it. That guy is currently the republicans nominee to lead the house of representatives. We have with us the Senior National political reporter whos been covering this. He joins me now. Take me where we are at as they just went home for the weekend. Hey, chris, jim jordan is still 64 votes short of what he needs to be elected speaker on the floor of the house. He had his first ballot in 24 vote votes in the second one ended up being 150 to vote. Hes gonna need a lot more to get to the 217 magic number. So republicans recognizing that they had no path to get their new Speaker Nominee elected, they adjourned for the weekend. The house still without a speaker. Its been ten days now. And look, the nomination of jordan, youre talking about some of the things in his past, it shows how much the Republican Party has transformed. Its just eight years ago that jim jordan was rightwing backbencher. A cofounder freedom caucus. He supported these edgy tactics like a Government Shutdown about a decade ago to defund the aca. Since then he has risen his way up to become a Judiciary Committee Committee Chairman and now hes the nominee for republicans to become speaker of the house. The party has moved in his direction. Jim jordan has not really changed. Democrats, the political operatives, are salivating at the prospect of connecting every republican member of congress to jim jordan, if they supported me will be a difficult vote for moderates, for centrist members who have to go home and explain, potentially, why they would support him for speaker, if they do. Yeah. To be continued. Call me skeptical, sahil kapur thank you well talk to more. Later congresswoman, i wonder how this looks from the democratic side of the aisle. I remember trying to friends of mine who are rioters during the Writers Strike they were like, well, we cant work, we kind of want to, you guys have kind of a weirdenforced no work period until you figure this out, i guess . Yeah. Its pure chaos. Honestly, its shameful and ridiculous at this. Point we come back in the midst of all that we have happening and we are sitting here since tuesday night, we have not seen this the house floor, we have not seen the committee room, we have not passed the bill. We are 35 days from another budget crisis, and we are doing this every day, day in and day out. I think it reflects incredibly poorly on the republican conference, and their leadership ability, and honestly, frankly, from our perspective, we recognize that there is no qualifying cabinet candidate, so we sit in the wings waiting with our own caucus ready to leave him ready to go. Just the math here saw how kapur lay this out earlier. They threw mccarthy out, none ahead scalise who had 113, internally, and he withdrew. Now they nominate jordan who won the second vote got 124. The number to win is 217. They are still pretty far. I guess my question to you is, there is talk about, there has been the case in some state houses, similar dysfunction, in which democrats have cut a deal with some faction of a republican majority, to elect a speaker. Is that a discussion democrats are having . Can you imagine a world in which that did happen . I can say that i have not been, and no one ive served in congress with are a part of those type of discussions. I would be surprised if the republicans would humble themselves in any way to accept the deal from the democrats. We are a caucus of calm, the caucus that would prove, i mean, this was their moment. They regain the majority. They were supposed to saline, crews in, and do everything they wanted to do, and it has been an utter disaster from day one. It will take a level of self awareness, post scalise stepping down, but even more than that for them to accept Hakeem Jeffries as a coleader or anything close to that. Sheer power is still within the realm. Thats what we are pushing. Thats what i know progressives are making sure that we want them to recognize. We can have sheer Power Agreements so that we can unstyle the government. Thats what we want. We want the government to work again and we want to be able to get a budget done. The sheer power, i saw people floating various things. The thing to remember is the caucus math, from the house, matt 217, a vote in the house, a constitutional office, not i want to play what Hakeem Jeffries had to say in response to your colleague jim jordan being nominated by the internal Republican Caucus for speaker before they all went home. House republicans have just elected a Speaker Nominee who in 16 years in this congress hasnt passed a single bill. Because his focus has not been on the american people. His focus has been on peddling lies and Conspiracy Theories,ivt the american people. I dont think its gonna happen, but it could. What are your thoughts on jim jordan as United States speaker of the house . I think that is a dangerous prospect. I think people make jokes and we can laugh at the circus. We laugh at how ridiculous it looks. But at the end of the day were talking about people who associate with antisemites, with white supremacists. Were talking about people who deal and negotiate with them and this is an election denier, someone who asked for a pardon himself, among many Dangerous Things he has done. So think about the communities in our country who need a strong government. This would be the leader that we would say. And this is the leader the Republican Party sends in this moment that we are in, someone who is friends of avowed white supremacists, anti sentiments antisemites, and the right. David duke with without the baggage. We need to think of the implications of someone who is peddled in the extreme Conspiracy Theories he has. Someone who has put forth the extreme policy positions he has, and someone who has created and maintain friendships with the extreme of people that he has, leading our caucus in our country. Second in line. I should just note, Steve Scalise was the ones who once referred to himself is david without the baggage, not jim jordan, just so folks at home will track. 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Among them, the one that really stands out is the reaction within israel to their governments handling of the situation. In the weeks after 9 11, im sure you remember as well, 90 of americans said they approved of then president george w. Bush. He was the highest job Approval Rating for president in the history of gallup pulling. An alltime high. That is not whats happening for israels Prime Minister, benjamin netanyahu. The day after the attack, the day after calling the disaster responsibility of one person, netanyahu. That sentiment went far beyond the opinion page, striking new polling of israelis found netanyahus Approval Rating in the wake of the attack at just 42 . And anger at the Prime Minister and his government, his boiling over. Earlier this week, friends and family of the dead, and wounded, expressed their fury to a governor government minister, visiting a tel aviv area hospital. [speaking in a global language] noga tarnopolsky, its an independent journalist whos been covering the Israeli Palestinian conflict fortwo decades. She writes that netanyahu is losing the war at home. Any netanyahu allies believe hes a dead man walking, politically. Journalists consider very close to the Prime Minister, on a radio panel, that its hard to see how he can survive this. Noga tarnopolsky joins me now from jerusalem. Noga, its a fascinating piece. I just want to talk a little bit about the rage and grief that we are seeing expressed that has happened now, being directed at a few different Government Ministers in public settings of people that just feel failed fundamentally. That the state failed to protect them, that it failed to uphold its end of the social contract. Tell me a little bit about what your reporting says about that. Well, the state is failing, in such a flagrant way that its sort of hard to hide. Its hard to find the words. But its sort of a spectacular failure. Ill give you some examples. Even since that article came out, its now been a week. Its now been we are a few hours from the moment that this attack occurred on saturday morning, basically at dawn. Hundreds of families in israel still have no idea what is the fate of their loved ones, if they are dead, if they are hostages, what has happened to them. And the government has simply not reached out. Its almost unimaginable, i know it sounds ridiculous, but thats the truth. This feeling of pain, of just rage on the part of the families is because becoming a central part of the public discourse. Netanyahu has been, i think, inadvertently shamed by President Biden. Who held a 90 minute phone call on friday with 14 Israeli Americans families, whose loved ones are missing. And the hundred and 50 plain israeli israelis havent heard from anybody yet. So everything, every step that the government isnt taking is being replaced by what is emerging as a kind of Shadow Government created by improvised Civil Society organizations. Or president macron, who gave a very moving speech to the french families. President biden, netanyahus absences are becoming more glaring. There is a detail in the piece that i couldnt quite get around. I want to make sure my im recalling this correctly. Netanyahu did not address the nation for several days, if im not mistaken. I think you said 70 hours. Which, i really found inconceivable, really on a even just crossed political grounds. Is there any explanation for that . It doesnt compute. I can speculate, because ive been observing this government up close for a long time. But i dont have a satisfactory explanation. I can tell you that he waited three days before he said anything, then he addressed the public. And he said nothing. It was such a forgettable speech, that literally people feel like he didnt even make the speech. Then, it was last night in israel, friday night, at 9 30 in the evening, when very few people are just hanging out watching tv, he very suddenly announced a second speech. He went on live tv, spoke for about three and a half angry minutes. And im not joking, did not mention the hostages, did not mention their families, did not mention the millions of israelis who are internally displaced now, because evacuations at the northern border, at the southern border. Didnt mention anything about israels future military operations. I dont want to put the onus of this entirely just on the Prime Minister, but the style of that we are seeing from this government that is coming from him, yesterday was the first day, the sixth day of the war is the first time any israeli senior official took any questions from any journalist. It was only because a u. S. Secretary of defense, lloyd austin, was visiting. He said he would have a joint Press Conference with his israeli counterpart. Ive got to say, i just keep thinking about the Family Members of the hostages, and the utter anguish of this moment. Obviously on top of the grief of all those who lost someone. Noga tarnopolsky, thank you very much for your time. I really created. Thank you. We will be right back. Right back op in florida, so i can feel and see that my lines have gotten deeper just from a year out in the sun. Im still marie and i got botox® cosmetic. I did not want a dramatic change. I wanted something subtle. And im really, really happy with the results. Its still me, but with fewer lines. Botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crows feet, and Forehead Lines look better. The effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. 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Work with advisors who create a plan with you, and help you find the right investments. So great getting to know you, lets take a look at your new investment plan. Ok, great this should have you moving in the right direction. Thanks jen. Get ongoing advice; and manage your investments in the chase mobile app. President biden, President Biden President Biden, the United States government have been very steadfast in the support of israel in the wake of last weeks horrific Terror Attack by hamas. They are also suppressing concern today about the unfolding humanitarian crisis in gaza as at a joint Press Conference with the Israeli Defense minister in tel aviv today, which noga just mentioned, secretary of state lloyd austin trust israel to be clear eyed in the response. Terrorists like hamas deliberately target civilians. But democracies dont. This is a time for resolve, and not revenge. For purpose, and not panic. And for security, and not surrender. As this harrowing week draws to a close, and as shabbat draws near, we stand together. And we stand strong. United states has israels back, and that is not negotiable. Rula jebreal michelle goldberg, an opinion columnist for the New York Times where she wrote this week about, quote, the massacre in israel and the need for a decent left. They join me now. I really liked your column, the, shall tell me basically the thesis. I think theres been a lot of attention since these attacks to a segment of the left, a small but vocal segment, particularly if youre online, that has treated this as a act of noble colonial resistance. Im not talking about people who say that we need to be concerned with civilian death in gaza, of course we do, or that we should restrain israel, because i believe we should restrain them from an overwhelming response. But there is this there are these people who see this as decolonization, basically. Right, and so its difficult to, i think, exactly put a finger on your political influence. Its proximate enough to influential people that it has had, i, think a profound psychological impact on big parts of the American Jewish community. Shocking. Yes. Made them feel extreme real shock. Yes, real shock. I think it was important to, i want to be clear, when you have people, you have these people on american left, saying things like settlers arent civilians, and all Israeli Citizens are settlers. This is really the mirror image of the language that you are hearing from some of these really frightening voices in the Israeli Government, when they are saying, as isaac herzog, the president of israel said, we cant really talk about as civilians. I dont want theres obviously no parallel in power between some random professors, random activists, and the president of israel. But i do think when you have people making those arguments, it makes it much harder to make a real principled argument about proportionality. I think Everyone Needs to keep clear eyed on this distinction, this sacrosanct distinction, about life, about respecting life, about opposing the murder of civilians, about protecting civilians. This to me seems like just Everyone Needs to keep their head on. Its also very basic, but also, both from a moral point of view, its very basic. But in order to make any sort of strategic argument against what is potentially going to be a catastrophic for palestinians ground invasion, i think you also need to recognize the incredible pain and fear, and trauma, of israelis, and also jews throughout the diaspora. Which has been inescapable, and anguishing everywhere. Personally, people i know, The Next Step in this, which is the preparation of gaza i want to read it for, you because i thought it captured something i was feeling, of, what where is this going . The title is israels walking to a ap hamass leaders and their running backers have a conscious strategy. Like almost all their other acts of spectacularly bloodthirsty terrorism and equally more outrageous response by the targeted society. Hamas and iran are attempting to go to the israelis into gaza for a prolonged confrontation. Youve talked about the 9 11 parallels, you and i both reported on the aftermath. This sort of and then what question is what haunt me. Let me start first by saying that what happened is an unspeakable atrocity. I think as we reflect on the dehumanization we spoke about this last time, i was in the studio, weve been talking about this for the last ten years. Thats the first time i came to the studio, i was talking about the cycle of violence and how to break it. But this, now, we have an opportunity to actually, for the first time, to understand how the dehumanization should never become a law of the jungle, and where barbarism can lead to more barbarism. I say this as an israelite, a palette dynein, i see how the conversation of the other traumatized is leading to a cycle of where actually we should, not in this moment, lose sight of the people who are, were killed, and their relative go on National Television. On National Television and tell, us in their own words, my child, that was killed, we dont want revenge. They are telling us Killing Gazan Children would not bring them back. They are telling us that there is no military solution. They are telling us that over and again. For a long time, what others are talking about how not to fall into the truck, this is how we lose. This is what exactly they want. They want israel to do what hassan did in aleppo, level aleppo. They want israel to do what putin did in bras, Me Level Bras me. They want to take these images and basically carry on saying this is precisely who they are, they really dont believe in International Law International Law is a farce. And we dont believe in it. Guess what . The images coming out from certain extremists, we need to stop these extremists from dictating our agenda. Because this is exactly whats happening in this moment. This is after 9 11. It happened, and we were to go to The Middle East and bring a stick, tell these people stop on this. Guess what . After 9 11, and after thousands of people died, millions in the region, the only moments of failure and success we need to learn from them. I say this as a moment of success, success, we have the taliban back in power. We need to think about that. We need to think about what happened to a rock, and the civilization of The Middle East. But also how huron is in charge of iraq. The only moment we had a success when a general and then bassett are put together a recipe, or a strategy, that was called the awakening, which basically, they ended the subjugation of the local population and separated them from the extremists. You come out you cannot punish the population, and then claim the high moral ground. Saying that Revenge Posey will make me feel safe. Nobody safe. We will be in perpetual war. Yes, again, we keep talking about how to avoid in the u. S. My strong sense for the u. S. Government is its very hard public line, publicly, whatever is real it is maybe not what is happening in diplomatic back channels. I hope. So i also hope. So in some ways, its understandable that precondition for being able to make those ornaments in back channels, is to make israel feel safe and secure. I dont mean that as a justification for demonizing any type of ceasefire, or deeming any talk of i do think that, again, you have to attend to the psychological reality of where the state of israels right now. Its worth noting, not that this makes the political standing of the people who were killed doesnt make it more or less horrific. But it does have a specific message to israel, that these were communities that were these four communities including a legendary Peace Activist who is currently in hostage. I think that also explained some of the messages we are hearing from their families. In a, way this response is going to, what looks like the response is going to be is going to portray some of the victims of this attack. But the attack itself was meant to send a message to israel that peace is impossible, and that piece is a farce. You reported in the region, quite a bit. Theres been a lot of different regional developments since 2014, which is the last time that there was a ground operation into gaza. Yes. Some but also this Great Power Competition between them. What do you think the regional consequences are . Depends on what will happen on the ground, chris. If you look at the arabs street, i understand with the conversation in america, we think that, and in israel, we think this is we live in an aquarium. Everything is hard and listen to. The voice of the president of israel, saying what he said about civilians, and they are all hamas, and then killing immediately in the west bank of palestinians. Shot, unarmed pill is stadiums. Basically, we feel so unsafe, we need to exterminate these people. This is not a new rhetoric. Theyre listening to this. That is being magnified. For the first time, i heard things between riyadh, jordan, morocco, for the arabs way of saying this is a moment of truth for the United States, the international community. Tell us, is International Law really a farce . Disposable, or it is applied in ukraine, but not on palestinians. I believe that this is not going to be a conflict between only israel and palestinian. This is going to spill over The Middle East here. And well come back to a modest. Thats why when we look at 9 11, we have to learn from those mistakes. What do we remember, international solidarity. Everybody loved america, everybody was for america. Two years, on the largest protest Around The World. We need to learn from these lessons, otherwise, terrorists. When otherwise the dictators Around The World will exploit this moment. Putin is thriving at this moment. Yeah, i just tracked them from ukraine. Rula jebreal, michelle goldberg, good to have you both here. I really appreciated. Thank you very much. Well be right back. K. Get it with gurus. Cargurus. Choosing a treatment for your chronic migraine 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more can be overwhelming. 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So, ask your doctor if botox® is right for you. Learn how abbvie could help you save on botox®. [narrator] this house is a Generac House and youre just the person to keep it running because a proud homeowner has a protective instinct and frankly, the brains to know the grid is gonna let you down sometimes. Thats why when the rest of the block is Lighting Candles and looking for flashlights, youre ready to rock and roll. Its not just a generator. Its a power move. Request a free quote today. Thats going to do it for. Us tonight, our coverage continues now, my good friend alex wagner, good evening alex. Good evening chris, have the weekend that you will have. I have nothing more to say, given just the absolutely grim nature of the news right now. Thank you as always, thanks to your home for joining us as we continue this special coverage of the israelhamas war. S israel has given civilians in northern gaza