Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240703

With a story that is very much still developing, very much still unresolved, and very personal to our first guest. This is yair yaakov and myrav. They live on a kibbutz in Southern Israel. A kibbutz call and yairs sons are 16 and 12 years old. Orr is the big brother. He is 16. Yagil is the younger son. He is 12. And on saturday morning, at 8 45 a. M. Local time, this is just a couple of hours after the hamas Terrorist Attacks started in Southern Israel, yair got on the phone with his sister in law from the kibbutz. And he told his sister in law that he and his girlfriend were in a shelter inside their house. They were gonna try to write out these bombings that had just started. He said his two sons, his 12yearold and his 16 year old, they were now with them. They were with their mother at a different house on the kibbutz. And yair said that the plan was everybody was Gonna Stay Put until the bombings stopped. And then, they would find each other and get back together and stay safe. Then, about half hour later, another communication. And this time it was from yairs girlfriend. It was from myrav. And she texted out an audio message. And it was terrifying. She said there were two terrorists inside the house, that had guns. They were shooting. She said yair was trying to hold back the door to the shelter so that the terrorists could not get in. And that was the end of it. After that, they lost connection. So, yairs brother tried calling them back. He also tried that thing where you try to locate somebodys phone, to try to figure out where his brother and his girlfriend or exactly. He wasnt able to find them that way. Later in the afternoon, he was able to get in contact with the boys mother again. Again, she had been with the two sons at a different house on the kibbutz. She said she had been contacted by two kidnappers, who made the 16 year old boy, orr, get on the phone and tell his mom that he had been kidnapped. Then, he hung up. So, the long form of this is that all four of these people, yair, and his two sons, and yairs girlfriend, they have now all been reported missing by yairs, yaniv. And yaniv says the whole family has been missing, as far as i know, since basically midday on saturday. Hes not heard from them since. Except that there has been an additional electronic communication of the worst kind. Yaniv says he has been sent a video, which appears to show his brother, yair, and his brothers girlfriend being kidnapped on saturday morning. Since the attack on israel started on saturday morning, we have seen these murders and Hostage Taking of civilians and otherwise. We have seen them being filmed and put online, for a strategic aim, right . To advance the purposes of the people who are doing the murdering and the Hostage Taking. And so, when it comes to the footage that these people are producing of their killing and kidnapping people, that puts every social Media Company on earth, and it puts everybody in the News Business in the position of potentially doing their work by showing what they are doing. Because they wanted to be seen. They want that too augment the terrorizing effect of what they are doing to these people. Now, on the other hand, the people whose families have been victimized in this way are in some cases asking us to please show these videos, to please show this step, because they believe it should be, a, known that this is happening. And, b, because in some cases they believe it could get their loved ones home safely. So, being in the middle of that, not wanting to advance of the cost to the people who not only did these things, but filmed them for a reason. And the people who are saying please show the footage, show the difficult situation that our Family Members are in. We believe it could help. That is a very difficult thing to reckon with. All of assistance are hard once. I dont think there is a right decision. In this specific case of yair and myrav, and the two boys, yairs brother has asked us to show this video, which appears to depict his brother and his brothers girlfriend being updated abducted on saturday. So, were going to play it with no sound. It was uploaded with propaganda style music. We do not need to broadcast that. You also dont need to hear the human you know, exclamations and fear for the people who are in the situation, even without the sound, i think it goes without saying that this video is disturbing. Its about 30 seconds. Were gonna show it now. Again, it does not have sound. It does have sound, but rather, we are not playing that sound. It is 28 seconds. Here we go. Again, this is the video that was sent to the brother of yair, the man you saw at the end of the video there, along with his girlfriend, and the first part of that video. Joining us now from Southern Israels yairs brother, yaniv yaakov, who shared this video online. Mr. Yaniv yaakov, i cant imagine the anguish that you and your family are going through. Thank you for talking to us. I want to give you the opportunity first, just correct me if i said anything wrong there, or characterized anything the wrong way around. Thank you for having me. Thats the first thing. Its a very hard situation. Its a very hard time right now. You put most of the things intact exactly, like they were, besides the fact that the mother wasnt in the kibbutz, she was in another kibbutz that was also attacked. And luckily, she and my brothers daughter are safe. All the rest of them are kidnapped, like i said. What we need now, really need, is that the government of israel, and everyone who can force, or squeeze, or do something to make sure that everyone that works for them to get back our family, get back our loved ones. That should be the top priority, nothing else. All the rest will come later. We can talk about a lot of things. But right now, we need them back home safe and sound. We really, really need someone to talk to us, to have a dialogue with us. Just to have something to grab on. This is no nightmare that i can ever imagine. Every hour, every minute, we get notifications from friends that their loved ones were killed, or their loved ones are not seen at the moment. It is so hard even explain how we feel. We are broken. We are terrified with what happened. We did not imagine, in our worst nightmares, that this kind of thing could happen. And we did not imagine in our worst nightmares that someone can react or can behave to human beings like they do. Have you heard anything im sorry to interrupt you. Let me just ask you briefly. You mentioned that you helped trying to create a dialogue. Have you heard anything from officials or Law Enforcement, or the government about what you should do now, about whether they want you to be speaking publicly, about anything strategically, in terms of how to try to help them . No, and thats the reason we asked families, other families that have missing persons, gathered together in order to get some help from somewhere. We know that there are a lot of that have people who are either casualties or are being held by hamas. And i believe that the whole world, or lets say, the president of turkey or saudi arabia, someone thats close and can talk to the hamas group, would force them to move or do something to bring our families back. This is what we are trying to do. We are trying to get our loved ones back. Thats the main purpose of our gathering because we didnt get any notification, or any guidance, like you said, from anyone. We decided to do it on our own. Well, thank you for trusting us to show these images, and to tell this story. Please, keep us apprized. I mean, i wish i could Say Something more concrete in terms of what we can offer. But, please, stay in touch with us and let us know. And i hope you hear something soon. Thank you so much. Thank you for letting us be here and show our pain. I hope this will help, eventually. Thank you. So do we. Yaniv yaakov, joining us tonight live from Southern Israel. Tonight, the white house says President Biden will give a speech tomorrow at one pm eastern time on the ongoing crisis in israel. We also got two major statements from the white house tonight, both of which were surprising in their own ways, and quite substantive. The first was from President Biden confirming that at least 11 american citizens have been killed in the attacks in israel thus far. The president s statement also said this, quote, while we are still working to confirm, we believe it is likely that american citizens may be among those being held by hamas. The president said, quote, i have directed my team to work with their israeli counterparts on every aspect of the hostage crisis, including cherry intelligence and deploying experts from across the United States government to consult with and advise israeli counterparts on hostage recovery efforts. The likelihood that there are americans among those who are being held hostage, like mr. Yaakovs familys, that creates a very real imperative for the American Government, beyond the support to the Israeli Government, we dont exactly know what form that will take. But weve got a important representative of the u. S. Government joining us in just a moment. Before we bring him on, i want to draw your attention to another statement that we got from President Biden as part of that initial white house released, President Biden said quote, in cities across the country, meaning across the United States, Police Departments have stepped up security around centers of jewish life. And the department of homeland security, the fbi, and other federal Law Enforcement partners are closely monitoring for any domestic threats in connection with the horrific Terrorist Attacks in israel. Again, that came out solo from President Biden tonight. And that was followed shortly by a stunning joint statement from President Biden, along with the leaders of france, germany, italy, and the uk. It says in part, quote, today, we express our steadfast and united support to the state of israel, and our unequivocal condemnation of hamas and its appalling acts of terrorism. We make clear that the terrorist actions of hamas have no justification, no legitimacy, and must be universally condemned. There is never any justification for terrorism. In recent days, the world has watched in horror as Hamas Terrorists massacred families in their homes, slaughtered over 200 young people enjoying a music festival, and kidnapped elderly women, children, and entire families who are now being held as hostages. Our countries will support israel in its efforts to defend itself and its people against such atrocities. We further emphasize that this is not a moment for any party hostile to israel to exploit these attacks to seek advantage. All of us recognized the illegitimate aspirations of the Palestinian People and support equal measures of justice and freedom for israelis and palestinians alike. But make no mistake, hamas does not represent those aspirations. And it offers nothing for the Palestinian People other than more terror and bloodshed. Over the coming days, we will remain united and coordinated, together as allies and as common friends of israel, to ensure israel is able to defend itself, and to ultimately set the conditions for a peaceful and integrated middle east region. Again, the white house, speaking in that statement, not just for the president of the United States, but for the leaders of our closest allies in europe, five Nation Statement from the u. S. , the uk, france, italy, and germany. A remarkable thing in itself. Joining us now is jon finer. He is the Deputy National security adviser for the biden administration. Mr. Finer, i appreciate you being here tonight. I know this is a busy and fraught time. Thanks very much for having me. What is the u. S. Government learning tonight about americans who are being held, held hostage by hamas . What we know and honestly, we are still gathering information. There is a lot of fog of war in the current circumstances, even today, you know, two days after the beginning of these attacks, there were still some fighting going on inside israel between hamas and the Israeli Defense forces. So, we are still gathering information, including about the whereabouts of americans who we know to be missing, and who we suspect, strongly, some of whom are likely to be held in gaza. We do not know with certainty the number of americans who might be held over there. But if you just take a step back, and think about the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of americans, maybe more than half 1 million americans in israel at any given time, we celebrate happy occasions together. This was a Holiday Weekend after all. But we also suffered together when things go tragically wrong as they did during these barbers attacks. And so, we strongly suspect that there are more americans not just among the dead, but among those being held in gaza at this time. And with the president s, unequivocal statement of support for israel. Obviously, this Hostage Situation has such incredible, practical urgency, and more urgency behind it. We can assume, i think, even in the absence of american hostages that the u. S. Will be helping trying to resolve the Hostage Situation. And even if there werent americans directly implicated, the fact that there are americans directly in harms way here puts that much more of an imperative on it in terms of the u. S. Response. With that and, can you tell us anything about what resources the u. S. Government is able to put toward getting at these hostages rescued. What types of agencies, what types of personnel, what types of Operational Support is the u. S. Able to lend israel in this case . Abl so, i will answer your question. But i just want to say, how much i admire the first guest that you had at the top of the hour on this program. And the composed and eloquent, just basically decent way in which he went about articulating the situation, the horrendous situation that his family is going through. It is an important reminder that there are people who are caught up in tragic situations like this. Its not all about geopolitics and National Security with human beings, who are caught up and its these tragedies. In light that, President Biden has ordered significant deployment of resources to assist the Israeli Government in addressing not just the overall response of the attacks. And weve talked about some of the military resources devoted to that. But also, some of the significant expertise that our government can bring to bear when it comes to hostage recovery efforts. And those resources, people from across our government, experts on these topics, will be deployed to israel in the coming days to work with israeli counterparts on the best possible way, to try to get these people out of what is a terrible situation that no one would want to find themselves in. I cant and wont go into the details of exactly what they will be doing. Some of this will involve information sharing. Some of this will involve a Tactical Planning coordination. But we are making every asset and every resource available to the israelis to help them with these efforts. Let me also ask you about gaza, and about the response by israel, and what the Israeli Defense minister has said about blocking all food, all water, all fuel, all electricity getting into gaza. Gaza, of course, is more than 2 Million People. We also saw the israeli Prime Minister today saying that what the israeli response is going to be to its enemies is going to reverberate in those communities for generations, and ominous statement from president netanyahu, although we dont know exactly what he meant. Given that, given the kinds of statements that we are hearing from the Israeli Government, even after they have already started airstrikes, taking down buildings in gaza, what options do civilians in gaza half, for getting out, just the regular people of gaza who lived there, who werent involved with hamas or any of these attacks, how can they protect themselves and their families from the air strikes, from any potential Ground Operation by the israeli military, even from this 100 blockade of food, water, fuel, and electricity. People cant survive long without those things. This is a lot of people, 2. 3 Million People are now confronting their own survival because of these actions being a response to what hamas has done. What can they do . So, let me start by saying youre going to hear a lot of things said during the course of this conflict. And already have, and will continue to hear them. Its not going to be our approach to respond directly to each and every search and we believe often is best to provide our guidance in private and we will do that. We also speak publicly when we think its appropriate. But were gonna look more in conduct than we are in rhetoric. That said, you know, i think, taking a step back, if the United States was subject to some sort of attack that israel has endured over the last 48 hours, our response would be severe. It would be overwhelming. That is why the president has said that we would back israels right to defend itself, full stop. And we are providing every measure of support that we can for what we know is going to be a long and difficult response that israel will have. We have also been quite clear, though, that as democracies, we believe we are stronger. We are more secure. We are better off, frankly, when we operate according to principles to the rule of law. And we are conveying that message in just as direct a way. And we will continue to do so. In terms of the civilians, who will inevitably be caught up in this, our position is twofold. One is that hamas bears ultimate responsibility for their circumstance. They have brought, and fortunately, this tragic war into the gaza strip by the barbaras actions that they have taken. And the civilians are not to blame for this. They should be given every opportunity to avoid what could be just as a tragic fate as weve seen on the israeli side. And it is our advice and objective that this war would be conducted according to principles of international law. Jon finer, Deputy National security adviser for the biden administration, thank you for joining us to talk about this tonight. I know that this is an incredibly difficult time. Thanks very much. Appreciate it. All right, i should mention i said president netanyahu, i of course meant Prime Minister netanyahu, in those remarks there. Appreciate the white house making that video of National Security adviser available to us. Were gonna be covering this throughout the hour tonight, speaking with members of congress who one member of congress who found himself caught up in this conflict in a very unexpected way. We have also another live report coming from jerusalem. We have a lot to get to tonight. I hope you stay with us for the hour. Well be right back. Ht back. Oh. [dog barks] no its just a bunny only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. The first time you made a sale online with godaddy was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. We just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. Start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first. Start for free at godaddy. 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Unlike chrome, the Duckduckgo Browser has privacy builtin. It comes with a private alternative to google search, which doesn■t spy on your searches, and it blocks cookies and creepy ads. And theres no catch. Its free. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you around. I was jogging behind me in join the millions of people taking back their privacy by Downloading Duckduckgo On Mobile and desktop today. The old city. When i got an urgent call from my chief of staff, telling me to get back to the hotel as quickly as i could, that israel was under attack. There were thousands of rockets being launched. When hamas began this coordinated major Terrorist Attack on israel Early Saturday Morning, new jersey democratic senator cory booker happened to be in israel. He was in jerusalem for meetings and site visits ahead of an economic summit in tel aviv tomorrow. As you heard him explain there, he was out jogging in the morning when he got a call from his chief of staff, telling him that the attacks had begun. Senator booker made it back to his hotel, he and a couple of staffers took shelter in a stairwell at the hotel, as the attack went on. Senator booker was able to leave israel safely as today. Second member of congress was also in israel when the attacks began. Congressman dan goldman was in tel aviv with his wife and three of his kids, to celebrate family bar mitzvah. They woke up Early Saturday Morning to sirens, warning of incoming rockets. They took shelter in the Interior Stairwell of their hotel in tel aviv. They say they repeated that scramble for the safety of that Interior Stairwell three or four more times, saturday morning, sheltering in the hotel. They ultimately made it out of tel aviv earlier yesterday, early sunday. And then back home. Joining us now is congressman dan goldman, a democrat of new york. Congressman goldman, im sorry about these circumstances that your family just went through. Thanks for being with us here tonight to talk about. Thanks for having me, rachel. Im guessing that since you and your wife and three of your kids were there for a family bar mitzvah, that this was a big extended Family Gathering in israel. I have to ask how everybody is doing . How everybody in your extended family is . I think pretty much everybody is now back in the states, who were there for the bar mitzvah. It certainly ended in a way that none of us could have imagined. And really brought to life the reality of daily life in israel, which of course pales in comparison to what so many of israelis in the southern part of the country had to deal with on saturday morning. You and senator booker, as i mentioned, were both able to quickly and safely get out of the country. What do you understand about the situation, in terms of americans who may be seeking consular help, and other people who are trying to leave . Obviously, we just spoke with the Deputy National security adviser, mr. Finer, about the difficulties that people in gaza have, trying to get anywhere. 2. 3 Million People packed into a narrow 25 mile long strip of land, very, very densely packed area with no real way to leave and head of what now already started as the israeli retaliation. Similarly, lots of israelis want to get out of the country, under very different circumstances, and darkens among them. What do you understand about freedom of movement, freedom of travel, and what the u. S. Government is able to do to support that . Well, we are in regular communication with both the State Department and the administration as well as i have numerous constituents, many who went over like i did, for the Sukkot Holiday in israel, which is a very common time for jews to return to israel. So, we are very concerned right now. There are very few flights going in right now. The Israeli National airlines is just about the only one that is coming in and out. And we are having regular communications with the State Department because so Many Americans do want to get out. They should reach out to the State Department or their local member of congress. You know, on the gaza front, and i heard what mr. Finer said, i would add one thing that i think is really important here. And i just saw video from the idf that was translated in arabic that explained to civilian gazans that there are designated Evacuee Places for them to go to avoid being in buildings where hamas has its infrastructure, the targets of israels retaliation. That is, of course, a courtesy that the 260 concert goers, and the children, and grandparents and Southern Israel did not get from the Hamas Terrorists. And i think its a very important distinction to make here. Israel is notifying civilians in gaza when they are going to attack their particular areas. And that is in accordance with international law, unlike what the Hamas Terrorists did on saturday. Israel has had so many conflicts in its 75 year history, all the way back to 1948, and as recently as a couple of year years ago, an 11 day war in gaza. And i feel like oftentimes, looking at historical analogues, historical precedents, can help us understand what might happen in this circumstance, in this circumstance, as you are describing, the specific situation in which weve got not only these math coordinated Terrorist Attacks inside israel, but the mass Hostage Taking. To me, it makes it i feel like no president helps me understand what happens next. And i dont understand what the endgame is, strategically, for choosing to take so many people, young kids, babies, the elderly, disabled people, whole families, taking them hostage. I dont see how it resolves. I feel like it makes everything here not just more horrific, but also more unpredictable in terms of how this can sort out. Because nothing like this has happened before. I want to ask you if you had a take on that, or any different kind of understanding on that than i feel. Well, you are absolutely right. This is unprecedented in israels history. And this is not just a perpetuation of a cycle of violence that we have become, unfortunately, many have become somewhat numb to over the last several decades. This was a coordinated, premeditated Terrorist Attacks against civilians in israel, that has not occurred in the history, 75year history of israel. What we are seeing and the reason why we, as americans, must stand with israel against the Terrorist Organization, hamas, is a scenario where hamas has control of the gaza strip. But hamas is a Terrorist Organization. This is not about israelis and palestinians. This is about a Terrorist Organization and that has inflicted horrific war crimes against israel because theyre so mission is to eradicate israel from the face of the earth. And the only way to deal with the Terrorist Organization like hamas is how the world dealt with Terrorist Organizations like alqaeda and i. S. I. S. Because that is exactly what hamas is. Hamas needs to be eliminated from gaza. There needs to be a new government that can represent the interests of the Palestinian People which hamas does not do. And so, the initial mission must be to eliminate and neutralize hamas. Congressman goldman, if u. S. Government is going to extend the kind of support to israel that you are calling for, can it do so without a functioning congress, without a speaker of the house, which seems like a picky domestic consideration, giving given Everything Else thats going on here. Are we actually hamstrung and our ability to provide the kind of aid to israel that theyve asked for, and that the president has been talking about offering . We absolutely are hamstrung. Its complete chaos and dysfunction in the republican party. And we do not have an organized House Of Representatives that can pass a bill. So, we need the republicans to get their act together to figure out a way to elect the speaker, so that the so that we can pass laws to provide israel with the support it needs, as our democratic ally in the middle east, so that we can provide the support that ukraine needs, as our democratic ally in europe. These are essential, essential things that we must do, not only for democracy around the world, but for our own National Security. And that is something that must happen this week. I really hope my republican colleagues can get their house in order so that the peoples house where we were all sent to govern can actually do the peoples business. Congressman dan goldman, we are really glad that you and your family have made at home and are safe. Thank you for talking to us tonight, sir. Appreciate you being here. Thanks for having me. Were gonna turn now to a freelance journalist working interest alum. Shes been reporting on the conflict for a number of outlets, including the washington post. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. I know its the middle of the night where you are, i really appreciate it. Thank you, rachel. Weve been talking a little bit about the experience of Congressman Goldman and his family in tel aviv. Also, we just spoke with someone in Southern Israel. We have obviously been covering the impact of those coronated Terrorist Attacks in Southern Israel. Can you give us a little bit of a sense about how this is being, what the impact is in jerusalem, how people are handling this complete shift in the world, in the ground beneath our feet, with these massive attacks . Well, i mean, there is a sense of deep, deep shock, almost a sort of Cognitive Dissonance as if the entire world has shifted since saturday morning. I spoke with a friend of mine this evening who has two sons around the age of 20, both of whom are serving in the army, one of whom is in one of the units that will be the first to enter gaza if israel does enter via land. And he knows for kids who have vanished, who are unaccounted for. And as i spoke to him, yeah, i realized that he is talking about six people who he is very close to, very young. And the chances of them being alive in the next ten days is not very good. So, it is just a surreal feeling all around. And there are so many deaths and so many disappeared that in a fairly small country, it feels like a blanket over everything. In terms of the numbers of people who have disappeared, the people unaccounted for, we spoke to a gentleman at the top of the hour whose brother and three other relatives are missing. And he has been sent a video, which we were able to show, peace and peace of showing his brother and his girlfriend being abducted. Its absolutely terrifying. But he also told me that he and his family have received no advice, no guidance, that theres not even any sort of prevailing sense of what Family Members should do, for people who have friends and loved ones who are believed to have been taken, who may be held as hostages right now, is there a prevailing wisdom . Is their advice . Is there any information or support for them in terms of how they should handle what theyre going through right now . These people have basically been forsaken. Thats what it feels like right now. Last night, i saw one of the most painful Press Conferences or public appearances ive seen in my life, a group of relatives, mostly parents, of people who have simply vanished, who no one has had any sign of since saturday morning, gathered and invited the press. And they basically sat there and whaled for an hour, asking where is the government, who is the police, why isnt anyone speaking to us . The Prime Minister, netanyahu, had not appointed a person to handle hostages or p. O. W. S since he returned at the end of december. And yesterday evening, he very hastily did so. Im assuming connection with his Press Conference. But the country is just, the official part of the country is not able to get into gear yet. And theres a feeling of abandonment, chaos, very, very deep fear. And most of the organization thats happening, basically spontaneous, popular groups joining forces to try and help people who dont know what to do. I mean, a prodient situation to be short. But for the people who have been held in custody in hamas custody since saturday morning, its not a prodient situation. Its got to feel like its been like its been decades. Already. Noga tarnopolsky, miss tarnopolsky, i really appreciate you being up for us especially at this terrible hour that it is right now. Thank you for helping us understand this. Hopefully, we stay in touch with you in the next few days. Thank you. Thank you. Noga tarnopolsky is an independent journalist in jerusalem has been reporting on this conflict for a number of different organizations, including the washington post. All right, our live coverage continues right after this. Please stay with us. Ly smart later im 70ish. Consider an aarp Medicare Supplement Insurance Plan from unitedhealthcare. With this type of plan, youll know upfront about how much your care costs. Which makes planning your financial future easier. So call unitedhealthcare today to learn more about the only plans of their kind with the aarp name. And set yourself and your future self up with an aarp Medicare Supplement plan from unitedhealthcare. Teeth sensitivity is so common. It immediately feels like somebodys poking directly on the nerve. I recommend sensodyne. Sensodyne toothpaste goes inside the tooth and calms the nerve down. And my patients say you know doc, it really works. Hi, im ron reagan, an unabashed atheist. And im alarmed, as you may be, by the intrusions of religion into our secular government. Thats why im asking you to join the freedom from Religion Foundation, the nations largest and most effective association of atheists and agnostics working to keep state and church separate, just like our founders intended. Please join the freedom from Religion Foundation today. Ron reagan, lifelong atheist, not afraid of burning in hell. Israel and the Hamas Terrorist Group may be the two sides of this war, but the conflict has implications for lots of other entities and lots of other countries, including the United States. The u. S. , for example, has already sent an Aircraft Carrier group to the eastern mediterranean, which is basically being viewed as a dont you there to iran or any other state actor that might want to get involved or further volume the situation. The level of irans involvement in the hamas attack on israel remains an open question. Iran obviously supports hamas with both funding and arms and training as a general matter. But the u. S. Government has been pretty explicit in saying that despite that dont support, the government doesnt have direct evidence that iran was directly involved in the planning for this operation. Iran is also denying that it had any direct involvement in the planning for this operation, despite reporting in the wall street journal, in particular, they absolutely did. It also remains to be seen how irans ally russia will respond to the violence. The nation of qatar is reportedly trying to play a role in trying to resolve the nightmare of this Hostage Situation. Qatar, according to reuters, is offering to negotiate an exchange the female hostages held by a hamas for female prisoners held in israeli jails. Again, reuters reporting that qatar is seeking that kind of prisoner exchange, prisoners for hostages. Meanwhile, there is been rocket fire and attack helicopters, military operations on israels northern border with lebanon. So there is a whole lot of players involved already, the possibility of a broader conflict hangs over every new development on the ground. Obviously, israeli retaliation against hamas has already begun, with air strikes in the gaza strip, the densely populated gaza strip. U. S. Officials have privately warned that we should expect the israeli retaliation to include not just air strikes like that, but potentially a largescale full Ground Invasion of gaza. Joining us now is ben rhodes, former White House National deputy security advisor under president obama. Ben, thanks so much for being here. I appreciate you being here on a night like this. Yeah, thanks, rachel. First want to ask you, i know youve been able to hear some of what we were women, report youre not accountable for everything thats happening this hour, but let me just recounted conversations weve had thus far, what youve heard, if anything strikes you as wrong or the wrong way around or for missing something important about the way we should be thinking about this and the kinds of questions we should be asking. No, i think what we are hearing obviously is understanding the incredibly raw emotion and trauma that people are feeling because of the horrific nature of these attacks. And i think the main thing that we always have to keep in mind, rachel, that i have to remind myself having lived through for gaza or is now is that what is so tragic about this that it is the civilians, the israelis that were targeted by hamas, and the families in gaza who did enough thing to be part of those attacks, but who are going to pay the price. It is the vast majority of people here who are going to be harmed did nothing wrong. And that, to me, is the ultimate tragedy of this circumstance, is how many innocent people are just caught in this. And hamas bears the blame for instigating this, theres no question about that. But its also hard to look at gaza, where there are 2 Million People, and not feel a tremendous sense of unease and trepidation for what may be about to happen. This is, as you say, but ben, i think you said this is the fourth gaza war youve lived through. This one is different from all other previous conflicts, because of this mass Hostage Taking strategy. And obviously, that cruelty and terrorizing of the individual people who are victimized by this tactic is one outcome. It also has an outcome, you see that in prioritizing the photographic and filming of Hostage Takings, kidnappings, to try to spread the terrorizing effect of that. Presumably the Hostage Taking also has the the strategic impact, the tactical impact, of providing some sort of a human shield factor for hamas. Theyre threatening that theyll kill hostages and fill it and broadcast it in response to israel destroying many civilian homes in gaza. Obviously, its hard to know why exactly theyre doing it or how they see it ending. But how does it constrain or prescribe what the American Government can do, to know that there are dozens, maybe even more, hostages taken, and that there are americans among them . Well, first of all, there are some practical questions that im sure a friend of mine in the situation room, i can imagine this is kind of an openended meeting in the situation room. And one of the questions is what Intelligence Support can we provide to israel to try to identify who the hostages are and what their locations are. And obviously, a second, another concern in the United States is trying to determine how many of these people are americans. I think the question Going Forward is hamas wants these hostages for a number of reasons, perhaps to be human shields against indiscriminate bombardment our Ground Invasion of gaza, perhaps to exchange those hostages for palestinians who are in prison. I think a big part of the reason why hamas probably did this, and nobody knows exactly why they did this other than hamas, as they want to establish themselves as the vanguard of palestinian leadership. The Palestinian Authority is weak, theyre not delivering on the aspiration of the palestinian state, they are kind of corrupt and sclerotic government. And hamas wants to demonstrate that they can achieve things, like the release of palestinian prisoners, but the Palestinian Authority cannot. And that presents a real dilemma for israel, which is do you deal with hamas in some sort of prisoner exchange, like the one that qatar is apparently offering, or do you not . The problem is if you dont, you have no way of assuring the safety of those hostages. It feels like israels primed for a Ground Invasion of gaza, which would lead to a significant loss of life for civilians there, and probably significant dangers to the hostages. Even what was announced today, the cut off electricity, food, and water to gaza, that could put at risk the hostages themselves. That could cut off power for hospitals, that could cut off access to water. So, we have a real variable here that we have not seen before, we have one israeli soldier taken hostage by hamas in the past. He ended up being traded 4000 prisoners. So thats the length that israel has gone to get its people back. In that case, its desire for retribution, his desire to destroy hamas, is kind of at odds with the capacity to assure that you can get the hostages back safely. So thats a real dilemma thats facing people in israel and the United States right now. Yeah, its a real dilemma that becomes more acute and more of a moral catastrophe, would literally each passing minute that those people are in that situation. Ben rhodes, former white house Deputy National security adviser, ben, thank you so much for the time tonight, really helpful. Thanks rachel. All right, youll be right back, stay with us. Back, stay with us tide is busting laundrys biggest myth. President biden said in a that cold water cant clean. Food fight food fight cold water, on those stains . Welp, only one way to find out. Tide cleans better in cold than the leading Bargain Detergent in warm. Cold water cant clean tough stains . Id say that myth is busted i always wanted to say that turn to cold, with tide. Statement today, quote, the United States will continue to make sure that israel has what it needs to defend itself and its people. At this hour in washington d. C. , the white house itself is lit up with the colors of the israeli flag. But as a technical matter, when it comes to the u. S. Giving Emergency Aid to israel that would have to come through congress, and right now theres no congress, because theres no speak of the house. Congressman Kevin Mccarthy acted today as a de facto speaker, held a Press Conference on the crisis in israel, but he really isnt the speaker in israel and the house cant actually speak without them. When republicans ousted him from the speakership last week they said they would be in any hurry to replace some. But then when the crisis emerged this weekend, they did not kill that Emergency Session over the weekend, nor they hold wanted a. And i have a lot to do. Obviously, they still need to approve aid to ukraine, they need to pass a bill to get the government running. But now this is there is this very big emergency, congress is supposed to be back in session. If theres no speakers, theres no additional Emergency Aid for israel or anything else. It is up to the republican majority in the house to reform the house and allow the legislative branch to function. Time only tell if and when they get around that. Get around that. And save hundreds on Car Insurance with liberty mutual. he hits his mark center stage and is crushed by a baby grand piano. Are you replacing me . With this guy . Customize and save with liberty bibberty. He doesnt even have a mustache oh, look a bibu. [limu emu squawks. ] only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. 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