People have been confirmed killed in israel. Gazas Health Ministry says at least 232 palestinians have been killed in the conflict since hamas watched a deadly Surprise Attack on southern israel yesterday, breaking through the gaza border fence, and firing thousand, thousands of rockets at israeli cities. Israeli militants said that hamas fighters took civilians, israeli civilians, men, women, and children, and theyve taken them hostage. Transported them to gaza where israeli airstrikes continue as dawn breaks out over the region. Sunrise in the region is about 39 minutes from now. The israeli ambassador to the United Nations calls it israels 9 11. The countrys Security Cabinet was halted the supply of fuel, electricity, and other goods into gaza. Congressman adam smith whos the Ranking Member of the Armed Services committee will be with us later in the hour with reaction from inside congress. We begin this hour with nbcs Foreign Correspondent josh lippman. Josh, whats the very latest . Jose, we are learning more about the mounting human toll from these attacks. Now approaching 500 people when you add the roughly 250 people in israel that have died, according to israeli authorities, to the 230 so that palestinian authorities are reporting in the gaza strip. Because beyond, that over 1000 injured in the gaza strip. But we dont know is whether this is entirely over. About an hour and a half ago we heard from israels military saying that they were conducting airstrikes against hamas targets within the gaza strip. But we also have heard even more recently, within the half hour of now, that there have been sirens going off in the area of israel, around the gaza strip. Last time we heard from israeli officials, they said that they had been able to root out most of the militants that they believed had infiltrated israel. Were still checking village by village. And the other thing we dont know is just how many israelis might have been taken hostage. And are either being held hostage in israel by Palestinian Militants or brought back to the gaza strip. But we know that the israeli response has now started in full. Not only the airstrikes that i mentioned, but also the Prime Minister declaring that israel is at war. Calling up reserves from the Israeli Military in what many anticipate maybe a Ground Incursion into the gaza strip. Particularly if there are israelis who are now being held there that israel is going to want to try to liberate. Josh, im just looking at the very latest coming out of israeli Prime MinisterBenjamin Netanyahu, and im reading a tweet, essentially, that he put out about an hour ago. Among the things that he says, there, josh, the idea lot that entirely destroy houses capabilities, we will destroy them. We will forcefully avenge the start date that they have been forced on the state of israel and its citizens. All the places which hamas is deployed, hiding, and operating in, that wicked city, we will turn them into rubble. The Israeli Security cabinet has been meeting overnight and made some operational decisions, correct . Thats exactly right. Theyve decided to cut off power, electricity, to the gaza strip as well as fuel and supplies. Because remember, the people in gaza are essentially blockaded there. They cant necessarily leave. So theyre very dependent on supplies being brought in either from israel or, in rare occasions, over the border from egypt, through the raffa Border Crossing. This is a broader decision by the Israeli Government in response to these attacks to cut off the Electricity Supply and gaza which, on a, day is limited, or not available often around the clock. Law it speaks to the emergent humanitarian disaster thats going to result from. This President Netanyahu, as hes been pledging a long and aggressive response by israel that he says, and his government says its going to change the face of the gaza strip. Hes been urging civilians in gaza to flee. Saying they need to leave for their safety before israel is able to go in and address all these hamas targets. But that is raising the question of where the civilians are able to go. Theyre not able to leave the gaza strip into israel. The Border Crossing with egypt is closed, and on the other, and there is the mediterranean sea. You can see how the catastrophe that this is created is just going to grow in the coming days. Both from the gaza strip and of course in israel where they are reeling from the biggest attack really in decades. Josh, its been remarkable to see just how coordinated that attack has been. And the u. S. Ambassador to the United Nations calling it israels 9 11. Josh, just overnight, and as i say, sunrises at 39 past the hour, overnight, israel, once again, saw hundreds if not thousands of missiles coming from gaza into israel. Were talking about in the past 24 hours, israel has seen thousands of missiles at it. Siles at it. Thats right, and its difficult to overstate how shocking it was to the israeli conscience that an attack like this could take place, not only the scope of it, the breadth of this, but also the complexity. With israel saying that hamas militants were able to infiltrate by land, by sea, and even by air using a paraglider to essentially hoist themselves over border walls into israel. And while we have certainly seen and covered over many years and decades intense fighting between Palestinian Militants and Israeli Forces within the palestinian military, within the gaza strip and the occupied west bank, and weve certainly seen attacks by Palestinian Militants in israel and the Israeli Military response. We have not seen this type of major battle between Israeli Forces and palestinian militant forces on israeli soil in decades. This is something that israelis felt they were generally safe from. And its something that they felt their intelligence organizations wouldve been able to pick up on ahead of time so that israel would be able to prepare and prevent this. So theres a major reckoning taking place right now in israel about how this was able to happened without israels government apparently having much sense that this was about to happen. Whether israelis deep into the country, far away from palestinian territories, can feel safe from this kind of attack. That is something the Israeli Government is going to be struggling to answer to its own people even as they are carrying out this response. They are promising conservative and intense over the coming days and weeks. Josh lederman, thank you so much for being with us this evening. And former u. S. Reaction, the Biden Administration response, we go to msnbc White House Reporter peter nikolas. Peter, President Biden pledges United States import for israel today. In his first public remarks on the situation. What is it that we can expect Going Forward from the white house . Well i dont think biden wants a knee with Benjamin Netanyahu at this point. The u. S. Has always been a solid ally of israel. And obviously, in a moment where israel is in crisis like this, its going to persist. The irony is that biden has had a front relationship with netanyahu over the years. Thats from mind viewers that biden was critical of netanyahu for Settlement Constructions in palestinian territories. And he was upset at netanyahu to in ways that would consolidate power, and eliminate such of the checks and balances in israel. So there is that history between. Them and netanyahu also was pretty flattering towards donald, trump he was very pleased with donald trump from moving the u. S. Embassy from tel aviv to jerusalem. But that is one side to the point because when israel was threatened like this, attacked like this, u. S. President sides with israel. Thats been the case for decades. And its going to continue. Yeah, and lets remember that the United States has been by israels side since day one, in 1948. I am going to tell, you the fact is that the president was so clear today, peter, in just how there is, as you, said very there is zero like between the alliance and the allegiance of the United States to the state of israel. Thats right. And biden made an interesting point. He talked about how he warned other countries, and it seems like he was talking to iran, although he didnt mention around by name, not to exploit the situation, not to take advantage of it. And i think it was a bit of a warning and somewhat of a threat there that the United States would not take comment to that. It would certainly be by israel side if Something Like that were to happen. So i think netanyahu and the Israeli Government could not ask for more forceful response from President Biden today. With Secretary Of State blinken standing right behind him in the white house. And you know, peter, as its been nothing happens in a vacuum, politically, or and anything else. These attacks occur as the United States has been facilitating a deal in which saudi arabia would recognize the state of israel, it seems as though this attack had something to do with that. Well, it also seems like that deal might be derailed from the time being. I mean, israel has other priorities right now. Its safety, security, and sovereignty are foremost in Israeli Governments mind. I think for the saudis, if the saudi government sees that there are civilian casualties in gaza as israel prosecutes this for, i think thats going to temper the desire for normalizing relations with israel. So it seems like thats been a big project of the Biden Administration. To normalize relationships between saudi arabia and israel. But it seems like that might be on hold for now. Its just as the war unfolds. Peter, you wrote today about how several republican politicians have used the conflict in israel, have criticized the president s policy. Yes, so republicans are trying to move. And they see an opening. Here are some vulnerability for biden. As we, know bidens calling card is his competence, his Foreign Policy expertise, which he developed four years as senate of Foreign Relations chairman. He claims that he knows Foreign Policy better than any living american. So all of that is being tested now. Republicans are saying hes been soft on iran. Iran, as we, know supports law and backs hamas. So biden is under pressure from republicans for this outbreak of war in israel. And also for other global hotspots. Things are not going well lit necessarily in ukraine, as far as the north can. Sia polls show that americans are tired of the war in ukraine. They dont to see so many weapons being shipped from america to kyiv. So thats an issue that republicans are going to try to exploit as, well going into the 2024 election. Peter nikolas, i thank you so very much. I appreciate your time. There is still much more ahead this hour as we continue our special coverage. Here in the u. S. , there is outrage over the attack on israel. The leader of the Antidefamation League will join us next. S next nging] and doug says, you can customize and save hundreds on Car Insurance with liberty mutual. he hits his mark center stage and is crushed by a baby grand piano. Are you replacing me . With this guy . Customize and save with liberty bibberty. He doesnt even have a mustache oh, look a bibu. [limu emu squawks. ] only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1 . Ask about vraylar. Because you are greater than your bipolar 1, and you can help take control of your symptoms with vraylar. 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Ask about kisqali, and long live you. Inspirational Music [narrator] Wounded Warrior project helps post9 11 veterans realize whats possible. With Generous Community support. Aaron, how you doing buddy . [narrator] we bring warriors together and empower them to become stronger inside and out. Its possible to begin healing to get the help you need. To find peace. [narrator] and as each warriors needs evolve, so do we. Because these last 20 years are just the beginning. 17 past the hour here in the United States. Synagogues and mosques from new york to los angeles are on high security alert. Airline such as delta and america have canceled flights to israel as attacks continue to escalate in israel and the gaza strip. Joining us now is Antidefamation League president jonathan greenblatt. Jonathan, i cant thank you enough for being with us at this hour. Just to start our conversation by hearing your reaction to what youve watched these past 24 hours. Thank you for having me and i will just say my reaction is shock and ruffles shun. I mean, the atl is the oldest and i hate group in america, and this unprovoked and brutal massacre exposes hamas for what it is. One of the most vicious and violent hate groups in the war. The client of iran, and the hate mongers in its government. So i think this laser of how we should think of this entity. Its not a political, legitimate government. Its part of this evil network that includes alqaeda and i. S. I. S. , and the taliban, and hamas. Now i will say, secondly, again, the brutality. Elderly people shot at Point Blank Range at a bus stop. Kidnapped toddlers who were taken from their parents after they were murdered in front of them. Teenagers seized at a Peace Concert and kidnapped. Holocaust survivors burned in homes. Like the homes were set aflame while these elderly people were still inside. And all the while, all the while, we know this because the terrorists gleefully recorded the images on video and share them widely. So i think we need to learn that, as an organization that studies extremism and excitement, that when people hardened anti zionist and violent extremists, when they say, relentlessly, they serially demonized and dehumanized the jewish it leads to the dehumanization of people. And violent rhetoric conditions the public for violent acts. We see it in america, and we see it in israel. And im just wondering, jonathan, when you have that reality which i think you described so clearly and so vividly, i also, jonathan, was struck by how this Terrorist Attack was filmed. It seems as though they were filmed like four a documentary. And how do you, jonathan, fight that . Lets call this what it is. Its a kind of snuff film. Its a kind of pornography. And im glad you made the point here. Because the portion of filming this while people chanted god is great, and they brutalized hostages, they raped women, and they dragged corpses behind them in the street. You know, at atl, we fought for the hate crimes act into thousand nine some by president obama into law. It was named after Matthew Shepard and james byrd. James byrd, a black man, who was dragged from the back of a truck by White Supremacists in texas, just like the Hamas Terrorists dying israelis from the backs of their vehicles today that comparison is out because at atl we have been tracking a white supremacist to have been rejoicing alongside Islamist Jihadist at the death of jews. What we need to keep in mind is this is happening against the backdrop of the most antisemitic incidents weve ever checked at atl. The highest numbers in almost 45 years. And we know that spasms of violence in the middle east, since 2021, in 2014, in 2012, in 2008, they evoked violence, vandalism, and harassment here at home. So the entire American Jewish communities on alert. From synagogues today ccs to schools, organizations like mine, there are dozens of rallies planned tomorrow. If you can imagine this for a moment. In the wake of this violent, misogynists stick, horrible violence, there were actually rallies being played tomorrow to, quote, stand with palestine. Its hard for me to imagine anything, anything more revolting. And im someone whos pushed for two state solution. Im someone who will continue to argue about the need for dignity and equality for palestinians even though we have Student Security for israelis. But the indignities and the inhumanity that we saw on display today will harden the heart of even the most optimistic and decent among us. How can you make peace with the people who rejoice at the desecration and mutilation of the bodies of civilians . Im at a loss. Its like nothing ive ever seen before. And i am disgusted. And im particularly disgusted at the lack of outrage among the arab and muslim governments of the region, among other kind of groups. Its hard to fathom the kind of brutality that were seeing. Is being visited with not more outrage. Jonathan, who else was celebrating and, you know, ive seen pictures of it the iranian government. In palestine park, in tehran, they had mandatory, obligatory, celebration where they sat off fireworks to celebrate what hamas was doing in israel. And hamas has been to russia and representatives from hamas have been to russia recently. They were just visiting cuba recently. And a lot of those groups, and im thinking specifically of cuba, im thinking of about morales in bolivia, what theyre saying which is the moral equivalency of what they say is the actions of the jewish state it is so revolting. I may have to reach for a garbage can so i can throw. Up because what youre quoting is real. But the equivalents, it is truly horrifying. Those images that youre showing, im glad youre showing them. The large is a State Sponsor of terror in the world is the government in tehran. And why did this happen . I believe it happened because of the pending rapprochement between saudi and israel, which tehran and its proxies in gaza could not stomach it because it would open up a wave of peace in the region that could abrupt peace between the israelis and the palestinians. But those rallies, they are taking place in iran. Into breeze, and is behind, in tehran, and it says there were fireworks. They gave up candies. Think about the brutality visited upon children and the elderly. And this evokes a celebration . Look, tehran and its accomplices and proxies in the west should be called out and unequivocally rejected. But that sign says right there in farsis revenge to this onto zionist criminals. It is heartwrenching to me to look at those images and see the lack of compassion and humanity. Look, history will not judge these people well. Whatever got they prayed to wont judge them well. Make no mistake, the state of israel will not judge it well, nor should it. Jonathan greenblatt, thank you very much for time. I appreciate you being with us tonight. Thank you. Air strikes over Gaza Continue throughout the entire night. And there are fears that this could spark a catastrophic humanitarian crisis. Joining us now is the israel and palestine director, human rights watch, omar shakir. Hes a former Fulbright Scholar in syria. Omar, thank you very much for being with us. And i am just i want to continue this conversation that we just started with jonathan. But i want to get your perspective. And i want to get your thoughts in a part of the world that has seen so much violence, so much suffering, so much pain, so much death. What happened here on saturday is unique. A court needed attack, air, sea, and land, taking of dozens, maybe more of men, women, and children hostage. And now as the sun rises, we can only presume that Human Suffering is only going to increase even more. What do you think we could be about to see here . Lets talk by saying the war did not start yesterday. Mr. Greenblatts correct, history will judge us, and history will judge those of us who have been silent in the face of the years, the decades long oppression of the Palestinian People. Lets forget that for 16 years, the Israeli Government has mocked the 2. 2 Million People of gaza in an open air prison. A generalized ban on the movement of people in and out of gaza. We have a 56 year occupation, characterized by routine systematic abuse of human rights. And 75 years but then the majority of gazas population has been denied the right to return to their homes. They were expelled from in 1940. Eighth lets be Crystal Clear here, the indiscriminate targeting of civilians, killing and holding them hostage, is deplorable. Its a violation of international law. That needs to be called out. But we have to understand the larger context. We are witnessing another escalation. For israelis, this was unprecedented. For palestinians, violence, structural oppression, has been a part of their everyday reality for far too long. And unless we address the root causes, we will continue to see a repeat of these cycles of heartbreak and of violence. The practice, youre absolutely right. Gaza has been blocked off on one side by israel. Of, course egypt has done exactly the same thing on the other side. And im just wondering, when you talk about this endless cycle of violence and dealing with the root causes. What are the root causes that could be dealt with, that maybe, maybe could at least help mitigate this. Or maybe even come to a permanent solution . Look, i think we have to understand the palestinians live a daily reality of structural oppression, and violence. This is not a conflict between two evil parties. This is apartheid. This is a system methodically engineered to ensure the domination by one people over another. Apartheid needs to be dismantled today. Until we get, theyre the interim steps that could be taken. We have to lift the culture of gaza. Theres a ban of anyone going in and out of a, gus on the majority of young people in gaza have not left this 25 by seven mile area. This is not even good israel. Im talking about going to the west bank. Artists, athletes, to leave the gaza strip, palestinians live this kind of reality every single day. We only note them on prominent broadcast when there is bloodshed. But when the cameras drift away, that reality doesnt change. I think we need to ground this conversation again, this isnt just a justification for the violence we saw. Its deplorable and unacceptable. But if we understand it what the root causes, and that is including the impunity for serious causes again, this is not been in the headlines, you have the highest number of palestinians killed in the west bank in 2023 than any year since the u. N. Began recording fatalities in 2005. A 30year hike in palestinians have held a trial or charge. This is the reality that doesnt make our conversations nearly enough. No, and im glad that this conversation is being held today. Unfortunately, its being held, as you say, because there has been a systematic attack on israel, where men, women, and children were taken out, ripped out of their, homes many were killed in their homes and taken out. As hostages. Im wondering and im grateful to you for this conversation im just wondering back to the question of the roots of it, and how we can help deal with this in a broader picture, perspective. Absolutely, look, i think for two, long the conversation has been covered by the fig leaf that we have a Peace Process. The Peace Process we marked in september 30 years of oslo. That means the Peace Process has gone on for more than half the life of the occupation itself. We have to understand reality for what it. Is that reality, the Daily Reality Palestinians is apartheid. This isnt just the assessment of human rights watch, or amnesty international, the assessment of 27 prominent israeli human rights groups, its palestinians have been saying this for, years for decades, its also the former u. N. Secretary general, its governments like south africa, the african union. We need to start the first step to solving the problem is to acknowledge what it is. To call a spade a spade. To identify reality for what it. Is the wrong solution leads to the wrong step the wrong diagnosis leads to the wrong solution. But first up is to recognize that reality of apartheid, and take human rights watchs document crimes against humanity around the world. I have been there to document them in egypt. My closer in places like myanmar in. The recommendations are clear, you need accountability from the perpetrators, you need to and all forms of complicity in those crimes. Until we do that, unfortunately, were gonna continue to see this horrific images of civilians being targeted, of people losing their loved ones, homes being destroyed. The kind of fluke weve seen far too often. Thats rooted in the structural repression and violence that is an everyday reality for palestinians. Omar shakir, thank you so very much for being with us this. Evening i appreciate your time. Thanks. Thank you. Up, next were gonna speak to congressman adam smith. Democratic leader of the house Armed Services committee. What kind of action as congress thinking about taking. Congressman, its good to see. We will chat in just a couple of minutes. Plus, a deeper dive into just how israel and its military couldve been caught off guard by these attacks. We will talk about that. But the u. S. Army fourstar general barry mccaffrey. L barry mccaffrey. Dule one for y ou. Or the whole crew. Plus, theyre free. Really . Healthier is getting a flu shot on your schedule. Cvs. Healthier happens together. This october 10th and 11th, prime Big Deal Days give Prime Members exclusive access to two days of big savings. Which means, youre kind of a big deal. Prime Big Deal Days, october 10th and 11th. Only for Prime Members. Having triplets is. Amazing expensive. So, we switched to the bargain detergent, but we ended up using three times as much and the clothes still werent as clean as with tide. So were back with tide, and the clothes are clean again. Do 3x the laundry and get a tide clean. Its got to be tide. Frustrated by skin tags . Dr. Scholls has the breakthrough youve been waiting for. 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All this comes in a moment of historic dysfunction on capitol hill but the contentious fight over who will be the next speaker of the house. The Ranking Member of the house Armed Services committee, representative adam smith, is with us this evening. Congressman, thank you so much for your time. Just want to start our conversation by having your reaction to what happened in israel. Look, its horrific. Its an act of just grotesque terrorism as some of your previous guests have described. And i was listening to your most recent guest talk about context. He left out a key part of this context. When you look at what israel has done in gaza and in the west bank, you cant look at that except through the lens that for the 75 years that israels existence, some combination of people in the arab world and in palestine have always denied the right of his real to exist. Yes, israel has taken aggressive actions, theyve never been recognized and given the right to exist as a country. They have had to defend themselves against that type of violence. Im sorry, but when you say that the context of this is everything that israel has done and thats why this is happening, and you throughout phrases like apartheid state, you are, in fact, justifying the actions that just happened. Look, israel pulled out of gaza in 2005. It voluntarily gave it back to the Palestinian People. As they pulled out, they were met with violence. In a rain of rockets and the elevation of hamas to be the group to run gaza. A Terrorist Organization bent on the destruction of israel. I want peace between israel and the Palestinian People. By the, way theres some blame from President Netanyahu has. Well we asked why were they surprised in gaza. Well, what is a president then yahoo has been doing in terms of expanding settlements in departments of the west bank where it should not be expanded into. Israel should be focused on protecting the country that they have. But all people support to palestinians should confront when reality you have to recognize israels right to exist. I, mean talking about the Right Of Return. Theyre talking about the Right Of Return for in some cases children, grandchildren, Great Dragon Trail Jim Who never lived in these areas. Who would overwhelm and eliminate israel as a country. Recognize israels right to exist, and it will make it a hell of a lot easier to put the pressure on them to come to a peaceful agreement with palestine. If israel is constantly fighting for their survival, constantly facing this type of inhumane brutality, Thunder Gonna have a hard time getting to that peaceful solution. Im sorry, but having a listen to that, i just had to make that point. Im glad you did. And if you look at history, and its so important those, santellana as they would, say those who ignore the past are condemned to relive it. Before the 14th of may of 1948, from before that, this was a country that was born out of justice existence has been, from the before the 14th of may, question. And its not just the existence of the state here, its up the people of israel. Its the presence of jews. In the region. Look, this region has been fought over and disputed for thousands of years. And one time or another, Different Group of people possess different chunks of land with different amounts of control, okay . And you can fight about it, but it shouldve been 50 years, ago or 25 years ago, or thousand years ago. The bottom line, as israel is now a state. And it should be recognized. And from the very start too many people in here in the arab world have never accepted that. Theyve never accepted the rights of jews to be present in that region and have a state. And you can have that argument. But its a fact now. So they have to be accepted and then theyll be in a better position to find a peaceful resolution with the palestinians. But ill tell, you what a pro israel people tell, me the palestinians dont want a peaceful coexistence with israel. Thats part of the problem. So weve got a lot of work to do here. But we cant just breezed passed the horrific violence that was just displayed. And glorify the horrific violence that has been done. These are things that should shock all of us. Again, it may not be, i was just gonna take your what this last sentence of yours it may not be the Palestinian People, but rather some of the groups and organizations that say to speak for the palestinians. Its really unfortunate that hamas has wound up being in charge. And in many cases, Palestinian People did have a lot of saying that. Look, i think the Palestinian People have suffered horrific lee as well. No doubt about it. We all need to work to try to get to a more peaceful solution. But one step and that is recognizing resembles right to exist. Another step is absolutely putting on some pressure on israel to help create a viable palestinian state and get to a peaceful resolution. Congressman adam smith, again, thank you very much for taking the time to be with us tonight. It is important that we listen to you and i am grateful for your time. I wanted to delve deeper into the nature of the nature on saturday. The Associated Press is reporting, quote, the strength, sophistication, andtiming of the attack shocked israelis. Fighters used explosives to break through the border fence and the long pocketedmikhitarian territory, then crossed with motorcycles, pick up trucks, paragliders and speedboats on the coast. This is not the first time israels robust intelligence was surprised by a Surprise Attack since the young cop or war with egypt, which by the way, was on the 6th Of October of 1973. Joining us now is msnbc Military Analyst and retired u. S. Army fourstar general, barry mccaffrey. General, always a pleasure to see you. Ive been thinking as we prepare for this hour on msnbc how much i really needed to hear your thoughts and your analysis. Number one, general, i think its pretty safe to say that Israeli Intelligence was caught off guard by this. So was apparently american intelligence. What do you think happened here . Ence what do well, were gonna fit out over the coming months. The gun have to go back and do an analysis of what went wrong. You can rest assured that the palestinian and hamas attack was rehearsed in detail. Was communicated to the various arms who had to carry out the operation and no one picked up on it. So its a stunning failure of intelligence. Hamas achieved strategic surprise as well as practical local victories. The Israeli Defense force right now has got a real problem. This is going to be very, very difficult to regain control on the israeli side on the line. Never mind going in and trying to eradicate armed hamas units in gaza. Millions of people in a small area and search for their own hostages. In the background, jose, but we now have to figure is while the war horizontally escalate . Were gonna see a tax going, hezbollah from lebanon with rockets, with Ground Incursions, will be west bank be ignited . Will the egyptians and syrians, who are making very hostile political statements in public today, will they join in some way in encountering the Israeli Defense force . This is a huge problem. A guy can take advantage to hamas who sees this as a victory. Many of the program today watching it, people talked about there is no military solution. That may well be true. But there will be no political solution. Unless the military, the idea shaped the battle on the ground. Though the hamas has convinced that they have much more than theyve gained. And thats not currently the case. So, how does the idf shape the battle on the ground . And is the definition of battle on the ground when we are maybe talking about actually going into gaza where you state there millions of people essentially trapped their, how do you define and shape that battle without causing massive death and suffering to civilians . I dont think it can be done. The israelis have a very sophisticated air force. And they carry out attacks with small munition bombs in the middle of the cities. They double the roof. When they get double tapped. Thats not gonna be possible on this one. So i think i expect there will be a Ground Incursion into gaza with armored units to try to gain control of the top level of the hamas structure and try to regain their hostages. It looks like a long, bloody fight in which the advantages of the israelis will be partially neutralized by fighting in urban warfare. And fundamentally, these hamas fighters have enormous courage. They have a lot of technology. Theyve launched thousands of Rocket Attacks to tel aviv, south into israeli areas opposing gaza. This is a huge problem for these really defense forces. I dont know how theyre going to solve this without massive casualties in their own forces. Never mind catastrophic damage in the gaza strip. General barry mccaffrey, thank you so much for being with us tonight. Really appreciate it. Up next, how will this conflict affect stability throughout the middle east . The general was talking about the very real possibility, the fear that this could expand. Well talk about that, next. About that, next. Breeze driftin on. [coughing]. By, you know how i feel. If youre tired of staring down your copd,. Its a new dawn, its a new day. Stop settling. And im feelin good. Start a new day with trelegy. No oncedaily Copd Medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. 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Have you tried downy rinse and refresh it helps remove odors 3x better than detergent alone. It worked guys Yeahhhh Downy rinse and refresh. Why do dermatologists choose dove . The dove beauty bar, is gentle. It not only cleans, it hydrates my skin. As a dermatologist, i want whats best for our skin. With 1 4 moisturizing cream, dove is the 1 Bar Dermatologists use at home. 51 past the hour. 500 people, nearly 500 people, have been killed. According to palestinian and israeli officials following the attack from Palestinian Militants. Aha Spokes Person spoken al jazeera television, the attack on israels, quote, absolutely a message to muslim countries seeking normalization with israel. What does this mean . For the middle east . Joining us, Now Ucla ProfessorPolitical Science science, David Spiegel i should say. Spiegel. Thank you, professor, for being with us. And i apologize for that stumble. What is your reaction to this . Im just thinking, professor, what do you think this attack means as far as why did it occur now . Well, i think it occurred now, a, because they were ready and its an incredible production. How we didnt know it, how israelis did know it, et cetera. Secondly, there is a certain business a 50 years after the same kind of effort. But i think they are trying to stop many of the arab governments who are taking a different step. As a result of covid and the war, and the situation in the world in the region, i think many of the countries want to move ahead and work with israel because it has what it has and many of them do you think, in terms of my conversations, many of them do you think that this is the way to solve the palestinian problem. And then you have this so then the question is, are a lot of people going to make the wrong pursuits . Or, are they going to say, the only way they can stop everything falling apart is to get to israel . That is something we should be working. On people say, what are we going to do . If we can encourage some of these countries, especially the country to move toward israel, even though the situation is so bad, it would make a difference. Its unlikely. But we, americans, have got to find something. This is a moment when many of the arab states, unfortunately, tehran claude, in location of the opposite, in the past. But this is our moment to make a difference. And we too can come up with some changes. And i think in israel, there will have to be some changes of government. Some of the greatest oppositions over the last few months. And subtle, this is a crisis. We will join with. You but youve got to get rid of the extreme. If you do that, then you can reduce, i think, the attention to the west bank and, obviously, its whats going to happen a lot more in the other area. This is the hamascontrolled area its a very important problem. The other arab states can help. But we have to make sure that they dont cause trouble. The question of course isnt but general talk about, it i was talking about it with congressman smith, the possibility that this could expand. How do you think that could be avoided . I think it has to be avoided in part by israeli negotiation. In part by our own country which is so critical. And we have to say, look, you are moving. You want to get richer and your own government be stronger. Are you one a mess that all up . That, i think, is the Critical Role that we can play. Professor spiegel, i thank you so very much for being with us. I very much appreciate your time. We will of course be monitoring very closely whats happening in the middle east, where rockets continue to fly back and forth between israel and gaza. These are live pictures of the gaza strip as the sun rises over. It read 50 eight minutes past the hour. We will continue our coverage with colleagues at sky news at the top of the hour. Stay with us. I thank you for your time. U for your time. And you know i didnt. 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