I dont know the solution. But thats the problem. 200 representatives voted to keep Kevin Mccarthy in power. Right, yeah. The number of republicans in his own party who actually vastly outnumbers those who did it. Yeah. Maybe some of them can talk to him about it at some point we will see. Thanks to you at home for joining me this hour. Today, in a Fulton County election interference case, Rudy Giulianis lead lawyer asked the judge if he could be removed from that case. Now, that is the second lawyer to leave giulianis georgia team this week alone. They are departures come on the heels of mr. Giulianis former lawyer and longtime friend suing him last month for allegedly unpaid legal bills. We have known for a while now that all is not well in giuliani land. He has huge legal bills. He is reportedly very short on cash. And now, to add to those troubles, there is a new story out today that, at first, feels kind of like it has been ripped from the tabloids. But ultimately, it could have serious legal consequences for giuliani and his most important client, donald trump. Was there anyone in that conversation who, in your observation, could have had too much to drink . Mayor giuliani. That was former Trump Campaign advisor jason miller, claiming that mr. Giuliani appeared to have had too much to drink on Election Night, 2020. You might remember that, a very late that night, days before the election had actually been called, trump held a Press Conference claiming he had one. And one of the big things we learned from the House January 6th Investigation was that almost everyone around trump that night advised him not to do that, but instead of listening to those people trump listen to Rudy Giuliani. I think, effectively, mayor giuliani was saying, we wanted want it. They are stealing it from us. Where did all the votes come from . We need and essentially, that anyone who did not agree with mr. Giuliani is adamant that he was not drunk on Election Night when he was, apparently, advising the president to go out and falsely claim victory. Giuliani claims the only thing he drank that night was diet pepsi. But today, the New York Times is out with a story in which several people claim that giuliani appeared drunk on Election Night, slurring his words and carrying an odor of alcohol. The times reports that, for more than a decade, giulianis friends believed his drinking had been a problem. The times cites instances of giuliani drinking before leaving fox news interviews and, even at solemn occasions like a 9 11 anniversary dinner. This is far from the first time you did giuliani has been accused of this kind of behavior. Earlier this summer, giuliani was sued by a former employee who accused him of Sexual Assault and harassment, all of which giuliani denies. But in her lawsuit, this former employee alleges that giuliani drank all day and night during the post election period. And she specifically sites to moments in particular, giulianis Press Conference that four seasons total landscaping the one where he falsely claimed that dead people had voted in pennsylvania and the Press Conference when giulianis hairspray appeared to melt down the side of his face, when he falsely claimed that venezuela was tempering with our voting machines. This former employee says it was her job to keep giuliani from looking foolish while he was drunk, and that she was not they are on those days. Again, giuliani denies all of those allegations. And he denied the allegations in the New York Times today as well. Huge story in the New York Times about you having a possible problem with alcohol. [laughter] i think i should sue them for that. I should comment that, if i have an alcohol problem, i should be in the guinness book of world records. 79 years old, and im an alcoholic . You know how much i have accomplished . If i am an alcoholic, and i can do all that, i should be in the guinness book of world records. Thank you, everybody. Its a typical New York Times malicious lie. I do not have an alcohol problem. I have never had an alcohol problem. Its a big damn lie by a newspaper that is a disgrace, by a reporter who covered me, who used to cover me in a very, very galling way, and now its militias vicious and mean and what she does. And it it is my Press Conference. Rudy giulianis personal tragedy is one thing, as are his denials. But whether he was routinely drunk in the postelection period could really matter, legally speaking, for both giuliani and donald trump. A person familiar with the matter tells the New York Times that Special Counsel jack smith is now looking into giulianis alleged drinking habits. Last month, three sources told Rolling Stone the same thing. Why . Trump is widely expected to use an advice of counsel defense in his federal trial, essentially claiming that he just just took his lawyers professional advice about what to do in the 2020 post election period. But that could all be in serious jeopardy if trump knew his lawyer was drunk while advising him. And trump, who lost his brother to an alcohol related heart attack, is not just simply a wellknown teetaller. He seems to take note of what happens when people around him drink. I never had a drink. I have had a glass of alcohol. In all fairness, i have watched people, and i study people. And i had a great, in particular, a great tutor on this, but i look, and i see what it does to people, when they lose control. Joining me now are mary mccord, former Acting Assistant Attorney General at the Department Of Justice, and andrew weissmann, former fbi Special Counsel and mary and andrew, are, of course, whos of the indispensable Msnbc Podcast, prosecuting donald trump. It is an honor to have you both here in the flesh tonight as we try to understand what is going on here. Alcoholism is a disease that affects a lot of people. We know people, in my family, that have it. And im sure there are viewers out there who have grappled with this as well. And my heart goes out to everybody who has had to struggle with this. But i want to focus on the sort of legal implications here. Can you just mary mccord, the news that jack smith is looking into whether Rudy Giuliani was drunk in the postelection period. Can you talk to me a little bit about, does that surprise you . And what specifically could he be looking for . I think, as you indicated in your intro, one of the things that jack smith and his team are trying to prepare for is an advice of counsel defense. But theyre also trying to understand the conspiracy more generally. And so, what kind of representations were made, both as counsel and also just in other consultative capacities. And as you indicated, certainly, if mr. Trump was well aware of mr. Giulianis intoxication, it would be pretty unreasonable to rely ons advice, even if he was legan giving legal advice. I will say, i think already that an advice of counsel defense was pretty weak. Obviously, we have not seen it yet. But we can just surmise. Because we know all of the white House Counsel, all of the Department Of Justice like, all of the council around mr. Trump who are sort of they are being paid to be his lawyers as the president of the United States, were telling him, there was no fraud significant enough to change the results of the election. So, he sort of just continue to go shopping until he got a lawyer. Now, when you then add to that, his go shopping for a lawyer who is potentially inebriated when giving advice. To me, that just makes it that much less reasonable to rely on that. I have got to say, listening to that tape, andrew, of trump saying i know what happens to people when they drink, the relationship he and his own family have had towards alcohol, and alcohol dependency, the fact that he does not drink, purely on a sort of client lawyer basis, does it surprise you that he would have sought the advice of Rudy Giuliani, if he was demonstrably enable rated when he was giving him, already, accepted, controversial advice . If you are trying to essentially shop for advice, and this is the best you have is Rudy Giuliani, potentially being drunk, sydney powell, who you privately are saying is crazy, you might be yeah, this is all i have. Because this is all i can get. These sober ones, in both sense of the words, are saying team normal. Also, to add to marys point about all the other lawyers, who are white House Counsel saying this, its also worth breaking down what exactly is charged here. Because there is no advice of counsel we are counsel says, oh, yeah, it is fine to threaten Brad Brad Raffensperger with criminal prosecution. That is not something where it is going to be any claim that giuliani said, yeah, thats a great idea. Right. There is going to be no advice of counsel that, oh, jeff clark has an idea we are going to send a fake letter to georgia to get them to sort of go our way, and to use that. Rudy giuliani and Sidney Powell are not going to be saying that fine. So, you have to break this down to, what is the exactly even if it is any baited advice, what is the advice that is actually relevant to the pacific specific parts of the charge . And i think it is a very, a very long road to have this fly in front of a jury. But can i just say, there is the reality that the white House Counsel is out there saying, do not pass go, bad idea, dont do it. And this one person, or maybe two if you are counting Sidney Powell in there is saying, go forward, have the Press Conference, claim venezuela did, at whatever. How does trump, on the issue of any british, an escape of possible deniability of saying, i didnt know . I didnt know he was a bad lawyer and he was inebriated . How does jack smith go about proving Something Like that . For one, think there are criteria to even get an advice of counsel defense. Because the way this comes up in a trial is that the defense will try to put on enough evidence to support a request for a jury instruction, so that the jury could, if they find you reasonably relied on the advice of counsel, they could potentially acquit on a particular charge. But to even get that, this there is criteria that includes, you, as a client, first of all, had a council relationship. That is maybe more clear with respect to giuliani, maybe less so with respect to Sidney Powell, but also that you provided your counsel with all relevant information known to you, and sought that counsels advice. So, there are a bunch of stuff that we still dont know about how he might go to prove. And i think this is also part of the things that jack smith and his team are looking into. Can i ask what this does this information to Rudy Giulianis defense . He is an unnamed coconspirators in the federal indictment. Yeah. And hes unindicted coconspirator in the georgia in the georgia case. He is vehemently suggesting he had nothing to do with alcohol in the postelection period, that this is a smear job. Does it inform his defense at all, if there is information like this out there . The reason this could be relevants into ways. One, as we just talked about, to the former president , but to have Rudy Giuliani i mean, if he was continuously drunk during the time period charged, he would have a diminished capacity defense. He say could say, i did not form the intent necessary. Obviously, that is not the route he is going. Down going down. Because he is saying, publicly, that this is not true. That would be a very, very difficult defense, given the time period that is involved, to say that you are drunk so long for so much and so impaired. It is possible that he now, though, having said what he said what he just said, it doesnt seem like that is where he is going. What is it practically, mean mary, that first of all, hes in pretty significant financial straits. And his lawyers, and the georgia case, two of them have left this week. What are the implications for that . Do they effectively need to have does he need to have local representation in georgia . How much does complicate his defense down there . He will need to have local representation. And we know that that is something that each one of the defendants have had to obtain before they were able to appear in court. It could result in some delays there. Although, as we know, the first trial that is going to go forward is the trial of Kenneth Chesebro and Sidney Powell, at the end of this month. That is going to be some time before the others go to trial, if at all. And surely, by then, he will have local counsel, although its difficult when you cant afford to write. You can go to the court and say, i am too poor, i am to indigent. I need you to appoint counsel for me. But, to do that, he would not be able to maintain some of the properties that he maintains and living the life he maintains, and still be able to qualify for a public defender, for example. So, it remains to be seen what his legal scenario would be. This sometimes is the kind of thing that leads to plea discussions. Because if you really are not going to be able to retain counsel to fully and zealously defend you, because of your Financial Condition or because people you do it. Right. Sometimes that is a reason to try to seek some sort of resolution. That would be dramatic for both Rudy Giuliani and ill drop. I want to say, to anybody who does not know the story, it is tragic. And it very much traces the breakdown of a man who once had the admiration of a lot of people in this country. But we are not done with you yet. Mary mccord and andrew weissmann, we are never letting you go. Please stick around, because we have a lot more to get to tonight. House republicans float some interesting names. This is what we will call it. To be the next Speaker Of The House. Including donald trump. We are going to get reaction from democrat Primala Jayapal about what your party makes of the mayhem for unfolding across the aisle. But first, down trump leads his new york Civil Fraud Trial in a huff and plays his racism card as he walked out the door. But this new York Attorney general is not having it. That is all coming, up next. Up next. Are you still struggling with your bra . Its time for you to try knix. Makers of the worlds comfiest wireless bras. For revolutionary support without underwires, and sizes up to a gcup, find your new favorite bra today at knix. Com in this clinic, we pride ourselves on putting others first. Its on us to help care for our clients wellbeing; to help them adapt. Its inspiring to work at a place where our patients succeed. And we as therapists do, too. With great benefits from principal, we feel appreciated for the work we do. vo sure you can get data everywhere but do you have to use it all the time . We feel appreciated for the work we do. Thats not really you. With tracfone, you get great coverage all on nationwide 5g. For a lot less. Plans start at 15 a month nocontract. 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It comes with a private alternative to google search, which doesnâ– t spy on your searches, and it blocks cookies and creepy ads. And theres no catch. Its free. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you around. Donald trumps newly gagged, join the millions of people taking back their privacy by Downloading Duckduckgo On Mobile and desktop today. Ordered yesterday by the New York Times presiding over his civil fraud case, not to speak about any clerks or Staff Members of the court. However, thatlimited gag order has not stopped the former president from escalating his attacks, this time on new York Attorney general Letitia James and judge arthur engoron, himself. Today, on day three of this trial, the trump called the judge a racist and a dirty couple also using racially loaded epithets against her. Inside the courtroom, trump was reportedly mauve more vocal than he had been on previous days. He expressed frustrations about not having a jury trial, something he potentially could have had if his lawyers had requested. When they did. Not halfway through the day, the former president seem to have had enough, and during the lunch break he stormed out to complain to reporters. I am here, stuck here, and i cant i would rather be right now in iowa. I would rather be in New Hampshire or south carolina, or ohio, a lot of other places. But i am stuck here. Because i have a corrupt Attorney General. They made up a fake case. They are fraudulent people. And the judge already knows what he is going to do. Hes a democrat im stuck here, i would rather be and iowa. That is what trump said before he left on his private jet for florida. So, not stuck and also not in iowa. Also, shortly after he departed, new York Attorney general Letitia James had this to say. Mr. Trumps comments were offensive, they were baseless, and they were void of any facts entered into evidence. With they were were comments that, unfortunately, it fomented violence and comments that i would describe as race baiting. I will not be bullied. And so, mr. Trump is no longer here. The donald trump show is over. This was nothing more than a political stunt. With me tonight are mary mccord and andrew weissmann. Andrew, how much further can trump go here . He has in addition to those comments, he called judge engoron someone who is run by the democrats. He already knows what he is going to do. The whole system is corrupt. Engoron came out of the clubhouse. At what point is the gag order extended toward the judge . Its interesting. Because the gag order that was issued yesterday was narrow. It was about the judges staff. And that part seemed to work. And so Lawrence Odonnell talked about this, which is, thinking of him as sort of the cowardly lion, which is a bully being called. Out donald trump does not want to go to jail. And these judges, both in the civil case and in four criminal cases have the power, if he continues doing this in fact, on october 16th, the d. C. Federal judge is having a hearing on this very issue. , so if he continues down this road that will be for judge chutkan to figure out should there be additional restrictions. And i think the line, at least for me, it is looking to language that act is sort of callingintentional or not, viol. Yeah. That is really the real issue. That is why the reason the judge was so concerned about the comments about his staff. I do think one thing that is very interesting is, this week, we saw both the Attorney General of the United States and now Laetitia James speaking out. Yeah. And weve talked a lot about this, the disparity, because most prosecutors dont speak, they speak only in. Court it is interesting, and i think commendable, for them to be picking their moments to talk about not the guilt of the defendants. Not to cross the line and to talk about why he is so guilty, but rather to share that they are not really going to put up with this and they are going to pull the integrity of the process and the institution. I thought it was really interesting, and a good sign that they are not sticking to the older model, which is, you dont say anything at all. That is i mean, jack smith has not said anything. He has made very clear that the doj would like to have some kind oflimited speech order imposed on president , former President Trump, which is the case that you mentioned in that response there, andrew, judge chutkans case. My question is yes, to some degree, the limited gag order prevented trump from saying anything disparaging about the clerk. It certainly did not prevent him from saying anything disparaging about the Attorney General or the judge in this case. It is like whackamole. And one would assume that that gag order has to be expanded to cover more people involved in this case. But i guess the question i have for you, mary, is, are any of these judges actually prepared to meet met out the punishment that comes with very different types of punishment. I think when judge chutkan has her First Amendment rights, particularly as someone who is running for office, against the threat that he poses to those people who he is denigrating, who he is attacking, and knowing, because we all know this, and this is replete in jack smiths motion and in his reply that there is this call and response effect. Donald trump said something disparaging. Somebody issues a threat toward that person. He says something disparaging, somebody takes a gun and tries to attack the fbi. So, these judges know that. So, i think they are going to try to thread the needle here with orders that are narrow enough to not tread on his First Amendment rights to be a candidate, to but to restrict his speech that has the potential for inciting violence. And in terms of what they will do, in the criminal cases, obviously these are conditions of his bail, his pretravel relief. I dont think they would immediate jail him. But they might do other incremental steps. One of the other things that andrew and i talked about before was, potentially saying you have to have your social media posts cleared by your attorney. So, run past his attorneys. What about his mouth . How did they do that . Thats just it. Because the statement out on the Courthouse Hallway would not be something that could get preclearance. Then the question becomes, what else . I will note, in a civil case, even though thats not the case that involves a condition of your pre trial release, if a judge issued an order and you violate, that is contempt. And you can be held criminally or civilly liable for contempt of court. That can be financial penalties, and i can also be jailing. So, jaylee is an option, whether it is civil or criminal. I do think judges will be reluctant to use that option yes. Unless he keeps just violating, violating, violating. And each time i think he may go right up to that line and sometimes he may go over. Do you think judge chutkan is looking at what judge engoron is doing keep in mind what is happening there . And perhaps have a sort of more aggressive initial ruling on this, because of the precedent that he set in new york . I think that she is going to be thinking about every statement that he has made in writing or from the moment that he has been under indictment. And i think she will also be looking at whether he complied with an order, from the judge here. And i think, in some ways, if he is complying with this order, that is sort of good for him, in that it means he can actually tailor his conduct to an order, and she would be much less likely, i think, to jail him immediately and would be thinking about a more narrowly tailored order. But the main issue is this potential for violence. Because that has to be the thing that is weighing, i think should be on all of these judges, is that you dont want to be doing this after the fact. Yes, absolutely. And we know with a track record here is. Mary mccord and andrew weissmann, two of my favorite, Brilliant Minds to listen both in podcast form and in person. You can catch more of them on their indispensable Msnbc Podcast prosecuting donald trump. Thank you guys for joining me. We have a lot more this evening. The race to fill the House Speaker share after Kevin Mccarthys dramatic removal. That race has officially begun. And former President Trump wasted no time turning a vacation into a spectacle. Look at that. That is next. Shingles. The rash can feel like pulsing, electric shocks and last for weeks. A pain so intense, you could miss out on family time. The virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. 50 years or older . Ask your doctor about shingles. Announcer try Tide Power Pods with 85 more tide in every pod. Who needs that much more tide . Everyones gonna need more tide. Its a mess out there. Thats why theres 85 more tide in every power pod. Inside the capitol building, see . Ah. There are official portraits of all the former speakers of the house. In recent years, that while has grown to include the speakers of the century, nancy pelosi, john boehner, and paul ryan. But there is one 21st century speaker who is absent from that wall and for good reason. A warning. Some of what you are about to hear in this segment involves references to sexual abuse. Federal prosecutors say Dennis HastertWays Paying Hush Money to a man who was 14 years old when hastert sexually abused him in a motel room decades ago. The says hastert that these two other High School Wrestlers and the team manager while he was the coach. Former republican Speaker Of The HouseDennis Hastert was essentially wipe from the History Books after pleading guilty in the hush money case there revealed he had severely sexually abused teenagers as a High School Wrestling coach. When you hear the roots words republican speakers of the house, republicans really do not want you to think about Dennis Hastert. And today House Republicans are trying to determine who their next speaker will be. And you would think that one of the most basic criteria for republicans here would be that none of their candidates should be accused of any involvement in any wrestling related Sexual Misconduct scandals. Right . A highprofile republican congressman is under fire tonight. A new lawsuit alleging that, when jim jordan worked as a Wrestling Coach at ohio state university, he turned a blind eye to Sexual Misconduct by a team doctor. College wrestling referee, named as john doe 42 says, in the mid 90s, he told jim jordan, then ohio states assistant Wrestling Coach, that the teams Wrestling Coach, richard strauss, performed a sex act in front of him in in a shower. Complaint directly to jim jordan after he says strauss once tried to pull his pants down. I had told him, hey, this is not right. Jim jordan has previously denied any knowledge of the sexual abuse alleged to have taken place at the university where he was Wrestling Coach. He has called the allegations against him politically motivated. But his accusers have stood by their claims. And jim jordan is now one of the republicans running to be the next Speaker Of The House. While jordan has already received the backing of a broad swath of house conservatives, he is not the only candidate in the running. Republican majority leader Steve Scalise has also announced his intention to run for speaker. And Steve Scalise is hurriedly uncontroversial pick himself. As a State Representative in 2002, Steve Scalise gave a speech to a White Nationalist organization founded by former ku klux klan later david duke. Scalise has since apologized and claimed he did not know the organization who is speaking to as a hate group. But david duke has claimed that Steve Scalise used to regularly communicate with dukes Gubernatorial Campaign at the time. And a Louisiana Political reporter Claims Scalise once described himself to her as david duke without the baggage, which is, what exactly . To be fair, Steve Scalise has since earned considerable goodwill from his colleagues after being shot at a 2017 congressional baseball practice and severely injured, as well as announcing a recent blood cancer diagnosis. But at the moment when the Republican Party is facing broad criticism for its association with white supremacy, Steve Scalise certainly has his own complicated back story. And then there is the other potential candidate for speaker, a guy named donald trump. Several conservatives have already started to promote a trump speakership. And trump did not exactly close the door on that idea when he told reporters today, if i can help him during the process, i would do it. I dont need to list for you all the reasons that donald trump would be a controversial choice for speaker. With there is one important reason that seem to have gotten lost this shuffle here. House republicans own rules barr donald trump from becoming speaker. According to rule 26 a of the House Republican conference rules, a member of the Republican Leadership shell step aside if indicted for a felony for which a sentence of two or more Years Imprisonment may be imposed. Donald trump has been indicted on several such felonies, which is all to say, the race to become the next republican speaker is shaping up to be exactly the message you might expect it to be. I am going to speak with democratic congresswoman Pramila Jayapal about what that means for the house, and what democrats plan to do during all of this, coming up next. Coming up next. The promise of this nation should extend to all from new york to new mexico, from alaska to alabama. But right now, people like you are losing their freedoms. Some in power are suppressing voting rights. Banning our kids books from libraries. And attacking our right to make private health care decisions. We must act now to defend these freedoms and protect our democracy. And we cant do it without you. Were the American Civil Liberties union, and were asking you to join us in protecting our democracy at the National Level and in communities like yours. Call or go online to myaclu. Org to become a guardian of liberty today. Your gift of just 19 a month, only 0. 63 a day will help ensure that together we can continue to fight for the freedoms of all americans, no matter your zip code. If you also believe in the right to vote, the right to free speech, the right to learn, the right to bodily autonomy. Please join us now. These are your fundamental rights that people are playing with. And so you need to get involved, because if you dont, then someone else is going to decide whether or not you get to choose what happens to your own body. So please call or go to myaclu. Org and become an aclu guardian of liberty for just 19 a month. When you use your credit card, youll receive this special We The People tshirt and more to show youre part of a movement to protect the rights of all people. We cant make systemic change in the way that we want to doing it by ourselves. We have to work together. Because We The People, means all of us. From Sea To Shining sea. So please call or go online to myaclu. Org to become a guardian of liberty, today. Republican congressman Steve Scalise and jim jordan today confirmed that they would each like to be next in line to hold the speakers gavel. Scalise in jordan not exactly known as moderate consensus builders, but if this sounds like its going for from bad to worse for house democrats, axios is recording that some moderate republicans may be considering another alternative. My advice, one of these moderates told axios, is trying to deal with the dems tends to get to the bill twits. Then it waits here being, presumably, the maga rightwing. Another moderate republican republican, congressman don bacon recommended i would recommend seeking a more bipartisan way forward. We need to make some real changes. No doubt about. And we need to make these eight mccarthy rebels irrelevant. Joining me now is democrat from wisconsin, congresswoman Pramila Jayapal. She, of course, leads the house progressive congress. Thank you for being here. I want to read back to you a quote from you before the motion to vacate vote. There is reason after reason to just let republicans deal with their own problems. Let them wallow in their pigsty of incompetence and inability to govern. I believe they call that a mic drop quote. Well the Pigsty Van Competence as has been the doors to that pigsty of been thrown open for the world to see, is there any movement inside the Democratic Caucus to have conversations with republicans as they try and figure out who the next Speaker Of The House is going to be . Well, alex, Picking A Speaker is the first duty of a majority, and it is never the case, historically. It is never the case that democrats would vote for a republican speaker. This is really their family problem. And they have shown, it has been exactly ten months now, they have shown that they cant govern, over and over again. The idea that there is anyone more extreme than Kevin Mccarthy is just not true, because Kevin Mccarthy, whether you think he was extreme or he governed as an extremist, the reality is, everything he did was the debt ceiling, turning that into a fight in the first. Place taking the country to the brink of a debt crisis, taking the country to the brink of a shutdown crisis. And then passing bills at every turn that empowered his right wing extremists in the caucus. He did that from day one, alex, when he agreed to the rules change after 15 rounds of voting for speaker. Anybody else would have been humiliated at that point, but Kevin Mccarthy kept going, and he basically got to the place where any Single Person in the house could bring up a motion to vacate. And that is why he has been catering in this way. Any speaker that comes after him is going to have the same issue. So this is not for democrats to wade into, into this pigsty. It is really for republicans to choose their speaker. But recognize that we are always ready to work with republicans who want to be bipartisan. Their structure right now does not permit that. The candidates they are pushing forward, i dont think are going to be any different, and the socalled moderates in their party have not stood up to any of this. There are so many times, alex, when they couldve crossed over, just five of them, crossed over and passed sensible reforms with us, whether it was averting the shutdown, whether it was the debt ceiling crisis, whether it was sensible bipartisan legislation. But they havent. Let me one make one thing clear, i call you the congresswoman from wisconsin, which is obviously not true, washington state, i apologize for that. But let me understand you hear. Im not suggesting misses democrats mess to clean up. But as the old proverb goes, every crisis is an opportunity. And if this situation presents an opportunity for democrats to steer republicans and moderates to a more empowered position, to pick someone who is not beholden to the right flag, when it makes sense to use that opportunity . Well, i think it depends on what it is. In any kind of discussions along those lines would have to be negotiated by our leader, our chose choice for speaker, hakeem jeffries, not individually. Its got to be something that would really bring power to the caucus, to be able to govern. Remember, what ever we do that contributes to our republican speaker being there, we will be blamed for everything that they do. So maybe they do some good things, but what about all the bad things that they do . If there was some way, perhaps, down the road, where a bunch of republicans came and said lets think about Power Sharing agreements, maybe. But thats above my pay grade right now. That is really, i think, something that republicans would have to want. Clearly mccarthy didnt want that. Im not sure any of the current candidates running want that either. So i think its really important for the country to understand, this is not a democratic problem. We, of course, i always open to the opportunities to govern for the American People. But theres got to be some reasonableness about Power Sharing because the other thing i will say is, actually in some ways democrats have been the governing force so far. Republicans could not pass the Debt Ceiling Deal on their own. In fact, Kevin Mccarthy made a deal with the president and immediately reneged on it, and then relied on democratic votes in the rule, which is a procedural motion. We never vote for each others procedural motions. But a couple of democrats went over so that we could pass that rule and that ultimately so that the Debt Ceiling Deal could be negotiated. But they continue to rely on us for all of this, and yet they continue to do terrible things that hurt the American People and the country. I wouldnt even say in some ways the democrats have been the governing force in american politics. They have been divorced. The reason things are getting done is because democrats have been willing to cross the aisle and have the tough conversations. Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, of washington state, no disrespect to wisconsin, thank you for joining me. Good luck in the Dumpster Fire that is the Republicanled Congress right now. Thank you for your time. Thank you, alex. Still ahead, this evening, now that House Republicans just booted their leader out, very few of them actually want the job. But there is one guy, a guy who used to live in washington d. C. , who seems open to holding the speakers gavel. Thats next. Thats next. Are you still struggling with your bra . Its time for you to try knix. Makers of the worlds comfiest wireless bras. 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Duckduckgo is a browser you download to your mobile and desktop devices. Unlike chrome, the Duckduckgo Browser has privacy builtin. It comes with a private alternative to google search, which doesnâ– t spy on your searches, and it blocks cookies and creepy ads. And theres no catch. Its free. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you around. We will do whatever is best join the millions of people taking back their privacy by Downloading Duckduckgo On Mobile and desktop today. For the country and for the Republican Party. That was storm trump outside a new york city courthouse this morning talking about the House Republican effort to draft him to be the next Speaker Of The House. You heard that correctly. A few hours later, this is what trump posted to his social media site. Joining me now is mark leibovich, staff writer for the atlantic and author of thank you for your servitude, Donald Trumps washington and the price of submission. Were three reading in the season, ill say. Every day. The entire problem here seems to be that the House Republican conference was too beholden to trump and the maga right and there are solutions for it appears to be making trump Speaker Of The House. What do you make of that . You could eliminates the middleman, the middleman being whoever the speakers, right . Im sort of amused by the idea that donald trump is eager to serve. He just wants whats best for the party, for the institution. Can you imagine him actually taking the gavel and trying to lead an institution as arcane and as unruly as the house of representatives . I will say i dont think this is going to happen but i also, i have lived through these last few years, you just never know. Donald trump would love the opportunity, i suppose, to be at the head of the house of representatives every day, especially with cspan and so forth. I wouldnt hold your breath, though. I dont actually think its a possibility, but what is distressing about it is what it signals. The lesson that perhaps the Republican Party might have taken away from this debacle is, we need to circle the wagons and figure out a new gravitational pull. We need to figure out a new center and yet we seem to be doing, the very opposite, whether its donald trump or Steve Scalise or jim jordan. I guess i would ask you, is this republican conference capable of Learning Lessons . Now. Look, its certainly itself interest. At least Steve Scalise and jim jordan served in the house and they know a little bit about lawmaking and legislating and so far forth. Technically you dont need to serve in the house to be Speaker Of The House. So donald trump could do it. Hes legally, hes allowed to do it. But no, the lesson here is, before we even get to who fills that seat, the idea that members are falling all over themselves to be the one trying to nominate or promote donald trump to this job. Ostensibly just to win favor with donald trump and get the, a thanks for the nice words phone call which the arc of, it is itself pathetic. But its also Standard Operating Procedure after the last several years, and again, this is the old normal of the gop, prevailing once again. The old normal. Its such an apt assessment of whats happening here. Because of your intrepid reporting about this part, this generation of the Republican Party, i want to call your attention to something that was making the rounds on social media yesterday, which is the cover of the young guns book, from, i believe it was 2010. How do you think history will look back at these three individuals and what they represented . Look, i guess you could probably find that in remainder bins. Everything must vacate, right . I mean, it was a moment in time. This was a fundraising gimmick. This was a brandon gimmick. No one, i mean i dont think today the republicans of 2010 were thinking much further beyond the next fundraising or election cycle. But yeah, that was a moment where you certainly canter and ryan and to some degree mccarthy were seen a seriously idea driven and just new idea driven republicans that could actually lead the party forward. It didnt turn out to be that way and obviously we have seen what happens. You have spent time with Kevin Mccarthy is part of your reporting. I know you had ice cream with him in 2021 in bakersfield. What came through in that piece was how Enamored Mccarthy was of celebrity, of sane. I wonder, if someone who has studied the mans character up close, how you think he is processing this moment. This is a Fanboy Politician. This is someone who is lurching from crisis to crisis trying to extend himself another day and is one to sort of higher calling was self perpetuation and actually just making this ride last as long as possible and connecting souvenirs and collecting photos of himself with kobe bryant and donald trump and i own schwarzenegger. He kept showing it off in these meals we were having out in bakersfield. And look there is nothing wrong with being a Fanboy Politician but its all very ephemeral and at the end of the day when you gavel is taken away from you, whats left . Its not like he has all the friends to draw on that he thought. He said it himself. I know that when this leadership is over im not gonna get people laughing at my jokes and im not gonna get people returning my calls the way they did before. So thats the sort of riding he was trying to extend, and i guess today he finds in himself waking up to a different reality. Yeah. The lack of friends, the lack of people that he could lead on, as someone who is known as a sort of glad hander in congress, the irony, the tragedy of Kevin Mccarthy. The ineptitude of Kevin Mccarthy. Mark leibovich i know you have a police tomorrow publishing on all of this. Thank you as always for your wisdom and reporting and everything else. Thank, you mark. Thanks, alex. That is our show for this evening. Now it is time for the last word with Lawrence Odonnell. Good evening, lawrence. Word with good evening, alex. We have news in the menendez case that is just sickening, i think is the only word for it. It turns out that the mercedesbenz that appears as a Bribe Transaction in the indictment against Robert Menendez and his wife was obtained as a be