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You are praising about one minute in the next minute youre gonna need an insurgency . One day and one gavel town from later. Republicans have finally found the real culprits. Democrats basically turned on republicans and ousted Kevin Mccarthy. Thats what you get for trusting a democrat. Tonight, the search for the next speaker begins. I know for a fact though trump has been contacted about possibly him being an interim speaker. As maga demands the mccarthy replacement, free donald trump. Kevin mccarthy wanted us to surrender every other fight. Jack smith, weaponized government. And, as a disgraced defendant Rambles Outside is the beginning of communism in our country . Its the beginning of communism. The excruciating details of decades of fraud inside a new york courtroom. Mr. Trump is no longer here. The donald trump show is over. When all in starts, right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. A little over 24 hours ago for the very first time in all of american history, a house caucus deepest their own speaker. A group of hardline members of the republican majority, led by florida congressman matt gaetz, forced a goal to vacate the speakers office, ousting Kevin Mccarthy. I will admit, it is not super clear why gaetz and his allies thought this was a good idea. The move left a lot of members of their own party bewildered and downright furious. And it has sparked a resurgence of a consistent theme in this political era. Whenever the Republican Party, or its leadership, act in a particularly egregious, norm shattering fact fashion, conservative politicians, members of the conservative media, and then many members of the mainstream media, rushed to find some reason to blame democrats. We have seen it over and over. After donald trump won the republican primary in 2016 it was democrats who got the blame. Liberals were to mean to mitch romney in the previous president ial cycle, helping to Inoculate Trump and clear the way for him. People still make this argument to this day. During the first trump impeachment, republicans tried to blame then Speaker Nancy Pelosi for their failure to convict the president. It was not their own political calculation or cowardice or moral blindness, no. It was nancy pelosi who was at fault for the way they voted. And heres the thing. Of the worst the worst that function gets, the worst the harder they try to work to use democrats as the cause of it all. Just like clockwork, we are hearing all sorts of folks blaming liberals for Kevin Mccarthys ouster as speaker, even mccarthy himself. I think today was a political decision by the democrats. Democrats just removed the republican speaker. Democrats basically turned on republicans and ousted Kevin Mccarthy. Every one of the democrats voted against mccarthy. Thats what you get for trusting a democrat, right . The democrats, who voted to oust Kevin Mccarthy, they couldve done something about it. They couldve thrown him a life raft. I think a lot of these democrats on the Problem Solvers Caucus need to be asked, why did you make this decision . Why didnt you step in . Why didnt you cut a deal with mccarthy . I want to work with the other side. Yesterday was the chance, and they feel badly. I think there is an opportunity for folks to put the country above the insanity. I think it left a lot of people with a bad taste in their mouth. Oh you had a bad taste in your mouth because the democrats didnt do what you wanted . Is that right, mike lawler, running in a plus ten Button District in the state of new york . We have seen the interim public leader, Patrick Mchenry henry of North Carolina banging that gavel very hard and angrily, exacting a little petty nge against democrats for their betrayal, he ordered speaker Emeritus N Pelosi and former speaker hoyer, to vacate their offices in the capital itself in what pelosi described is a sharp departure from tradition. As you, know pelosi wasnt even president for the vote against mccarthy. She was in florida for the funeral of the late senator diane feinstein. Yesterday all the democrats were present in the house faced a tactical question about what to do in this nearly unprecedented situation. Remember, it has been more than a century since the house caucus headed aside on how to vote on vacate against speaker. The only reason we had this vote was because the rules package negotiated by gaetz and the holdouts and Kevin Mccarthy, they created the conditions for the vote to happen in the first place, and we have never seen this level of House Dysfunction before. Its genuinely historic. I will say, there really were arguments on both sides about how democrats should handle the vote. I talked to a bunch of people yesterday as i was reporting this. But those were arguments about how the Democratic Caucus should exercise its own political interests and the interests of those people they represent. The idea that democrats should have protected Kevin Mccarthy for the good of the country is nonsense. First of all, if Kevin Mccarthy wanted democrats to vote for him in this vote that only came about because of the rules package he negotiated, Kevin Mccarthy was a big boy, he could have tried to persuade democrats to make a deal with them. Thats the way politics works. He did not do that. In fact, he reportedly waited until the last minute to call the democratic leader, hak chaffee jeffries. And his allies said, pointedly, publicly and privately, that mccarthy was opposed to cutting any deals with democrats. Even deeper issue at play, as one House Democratic staffer explains today, was just basic trust. Quote, we did not trust Kevin Mccarthy and he gave us no reason to. He could have done so, and i suspect through fairly simple actions he chose democrats could not mal with Kevin Mccarthy. They could not support his speakership because his word means nothing. They could not trust him. Keep in mind, mccarthy was already, in front of all of us, he wasnt secretive about it, he was in the process of ripping up the biggest deal he ever made on the debt ceiling. They cut the deal with joe biden, and folks in his caucus got mad about the deal, and he was about to go and undercut that deal, rip it up. There was no reason for democrats to believe that he would not turn around and rip up another deal with them tomorrow. Back in fact, he had already promised his caucus that he would do that. So he had to be lying to someone. Either lying to his caucus are lying to the democrats to cut a deal with them. But hes lying to someone. What could it do them to save mccarthy and then, the next day, watch him push forward and impeachment of joe biden, massively cut social funding, put a whole bunch of awful Poison Pill Provisions into must pass legislation, steer the country into another shutdown . As Josh Marshall points out, republicans bad hey viewer and destruction is assumed in washington. Its a given. Its like gravity. Everyone knows unexpected. Everyone else has to work around it. That means democrats have to be the ones to figure out how to make the government work. Of course the dysfunctional misbehaving republicans are all grown ass adults with moral agency. They make decisions. They can do bad things are good things. I cannot quite believe this needs to be said. But the people behave to blame for republicans blowing up their speakers republicans. Congressman joe neguse, member of the party of leadership and who joins me now. First of all, what do you think of the argument that you sold out the country yesterday in pursuit of Petty Political aims and had an opportunity to be the bigger man, i guess . I dont know what the argument is, and vote to keep bevin Kevin Mccarthy is your speaker. Good evening, chris. Its good to be with you. Its a nonsensical argument. I agree with your summation as to the decisionmaking that occurred over the last couple of days. Let me just first say its good as a broad principle to state what has been made abundantly clear over the course of the last nine months, which is that House Republicans are singularly focused on fighting each other and House Democrats are focused on fighting for the American People, on developing on delivering real results for Working Families across the country. Its clear republicans chose a different path, a path of chaos, extremism, and dysfunction has had real consequences for the American People. It culminated in the events of the last 24 hours. With respect to the particular argument that you are noting, and some republicans have apparently are parroting and using as an excuse over the last 24 hours, i think it is ludicrous on his face. The notion that democrats are somehow responsible for a republican speaker is unmoored from reality and from any kind of historical precedents. And by the way, the American People understand that. They recognize that the Majority Party in the house select the speaker because they watched in january when the republican conference was in disarray, incapable of electing a speaker. And the only reason why that process concluded with the ascension of Speaker Mccarthy is because he capitulated to every demand made by the extreme right wing of his caucus, including the rule change that you noticed, that enabled those same chaos agents to ultimately vacate the speakers office. That was a rule change that House Democrats voted against. Its a crisis of their own making. It is emblematic of the dysfunction that they have brought To Washington, and it is unfortunate for the country. The other thing in this, a guy named aaron fisher, a staffer who wrote this. One of the things he did a good job of explaining is that the cr they passed, the continuing resolution to keep government open on the day, there was no communication. Hes been promising to write everything. He pivots, he throws this thing in their laps. Heres all of the funding. You dont have 90 minutes, not even 90 minutes to read it. Vote for it or you shut down the government and i need two thirds majority. Thats the last thing he did before he got booted from being speaker. That was the last action of the guy that youre supposed to have anti trust or good faith in. Yeah. With one caveat. It was a second to last thing he did. Of course the last thing he did was following that vote in which the vast majority of democrats, nearly 90 of the caucus, voted in favor of keeping the government open, notwithstanding that Republicans En Masse voted against it. The speaker, former speaker, went on television and attempted to blame democrats for voting, apparently voting for that bill [laughter]. I read that same twitter thread and i thought that it articulated well the numerous ways, unfortunately, the former speaker had, as i said, capitulated to the farright, and reneged on agreements that were made. Again, this is bigger than one person. It is emblematic of the extremism that has taken root in the House Republican conference. That, fundamentally, i think, is what is before the country now. And these are the, we should just put up the eight republicans that voted to oust him that were sort of running this operation. To your point about being bigger than one speaker, i dont want to get to in the weeds, but it is important for people to really understand this issue. The government will need to be funded in 45 days because there is a continuing resolution for 45 days. There was a deal laid out of the debt ceiling for the house and the senate for basically these kind of top line budget numbers, for everyone to go back and pass appropriations align with those numbers. That was the deer. We all watched it happened. We covered it. Mccarthy met with joe biden. The senate is doing that. Theyre basically going back and saying, okay, weve got the ad bill, the defense bill, heres the top line numbers. The republicans want to reneged on that deal. They want to rip up that deal, and so there will be another shutdown, because they want to rip up the deal that they made to avoid the lash shut down. Am i right, where am i losing my mind . Look, the House Republicans have been on an island for quite some time now. You are right with respect to the deal that you mentioned. The fiscal responsibility act. The impetus for that deal, just by way of background and context for your viewers is that republicans manufactured a crisis with respect to the debt ceiling. They brought us to the brink of a catastrophic catastrophic default on our debt, and ultimately negotiated this to avert a crisis they had created and in an era matter of weeks, Speaker Mccarthy, former Speaker Mccarthy, reneged on that very same deal. Senate republicans have been working on a bipartisan basis with senate democrats, and the president , of course, is supportive of the agreement he reached. Again, its consistent with the way in which House Republican kong conference has chosen to govern, or lack thereof i suppose. These are not serious people. Its not a serious party. Theyre not prepared to govern. The American People see that and unfortunately, if past is prologue, i think were in for some choppy waters ahead. Im hopeful that some republicans in that conference will walk away from the extreme maga element in the conference that has metastasized and work with us to find by find a bipartisan path forward, supporting our leader, hakeem jeffries, who is Letter Conference and the country with unity and brilliance and trying to deliver results to the American People. But time will tell. I think choppy waters is apt. Again, were gonna be in the same place. It doesnt matter who they get. They could vote for the hamburger for speaker. It doesnt matter. Its going to be the same problem. Congressman joe neguse. I was trying to get you to smile and laugh. Always good to be with you, chris. Take care. With house what the House Maga Caucus once has been inscrutable, which is part of the problem. Whats the ask . What is it the next speaker should do that Kevin Mccarthy wouldnt . Well, matt gaetz gave us a clue last night. We passed a department of Homeland Security border bill that would have required everifyd with a host of other reforms. Then on a continuing resolution, Kevin Mccarthy wanted us to surrender every other fight. Jack smith, weaponized government, Everything Else going gone just to isolate the border thing. All right, so, if youre listening to matt gaetz, he was good on the border stuff, the border bill is good, but there are too focused on that at the exclusion of every other fight. Kevin mccarthy surrendered the fight against, for example, jack smith. In other words, the speaker lost his job because he refused to disrupt the prosecution of donald trump for attempting to overthrow american democracy. And for next speaker, the maga caucus has large demand. Florida member i will vote for the speaker who publicly and clearly commit to defunding jack smiths antiamerican Election Interference which hunt and subpoenas under biden of bringing a vote on the impeachment of joe biden to the house of the floor. We must have free and clear elections and in the corruption of our government. And the somewhat ominously, and a little comically, these are by terms. So let her be written, let it be done. Those demands are broadly representative of the clarks position. There are demands. It leaves out another one that we should include, which is a Requirement Cut off aid to ukraine. She doesnt mention that but i think its there. If you take them seriously, their positions basically amounted to declaring donald trump Above The Law by defunding special counsel jack smiths investigation, going into the president s son and helping Vladimir Putin seize ukraine. And emerge successful from his War Of Aggression against that country. She served as a Public Relations director on capitol hill. Matt, let me start with you, someone who has been reporting on this crew for a while, the faces of change, the names of change. I remember when mark meadows, you were a reporting a lot on mark meadows when he was the kind of, he was the matt gaetz of his day back in 2015 when he took iran add boehner. You have long institutional memory here, and we reported on this shifting contours of the hard right caucus. Do you think there are substantive asks here . Is there a thing here that they want . Sure. As you have sort of laid out, they have demands. None of them are realistic. Theyre not going to get this border built, were not gonna defund jack smiths investigation and maybe they can stop ukraine aid, which seems a tall ask when you have the best majority of congress and the vast majority of the senate saying this is critical aid and we have explore this topic at length as well. It certainly seems like critical aid. I dont think its about specific ask. I dont think they really think, if we just go out there and fight really hard and were just going to get democrats to roll over, and joe bidens gonna sign our bills. But theyre not measured by that. Theyre not measured by governing. They came here To Washington saying washington was broken and now they are proving it. They came To Washington to require podcasts and to bumble gum in their all out a bubble gum. Exactly. So, yeah, matt gaetz, he doesnt need government to function. He doesnt need congress to function. In fact, its probably better for matt gaetz if its dysfunctional. There it is. There they go again proving my point. See what i spent . So, yeah, he doesnt really care about a shutdown. He doesnt care about the house and Senate Appropriators coming together and using the top line numbers. Thats not what matt gaetz is measured by. Hes measured by speakers on the floor and being disruptive and thats what he is here to do. Hes doing a good job. I joke about the podcast, but i lose track of how many podcasts they all have. Ted cruz thinks the solution is to impeach mayorkas and merrick garland. He is lobbing that over to the house. One of the interesting issues here, you could tell from fox cover yesterday that Rupert Murdoch was unhappy with this. He was very mad. They were very upset by this whole thing which is why theyre trying to blame the democrats but there is this other kind of competitor ecosystem even more mcgiven ulks. This is any kearney writing the new york timesabou the two rightwing rebels on capitol hill have encountered trouble getting real track to action, shunned by lobbying activists and big money, and disregarded fox news. But with the help of mr. Bannon, who streams lived for four hours every day, oh my god, mr. Gates and others, who dont need to rely on that, how much do you think that has played a role here . A huge role. I remember the fight back in 2015 and the dynamics were so different. And because of that alternative that Media Ecosystem may have created Counter Earth and they are living in a different universe than what we live in every single day. But unfortunately that uniform verse is vast when it comes to Republican Voters and people who Support Trump and maga. They live in a different universe. That Universe Consists of a lot of political nihilists and people who are rewarded for bad behavior. I think that is something that the era of trump has ushered in. The political incentives now for acting like on ass like matt gaetz does, the rewarded with more attention. Look at Marjorie Taylor greene. She was someone who was untenable for a long time and then she made a calculation, cozied up to mccarthy, Got On Committees and became a star. He said he loved that woman. Low and Lauren Boebert is still a member of congress, and matt gates was able to successfully lead an insurrection against the sitting speaker For The First Time in history. So i think when you look at what steve bannon and these guys are doing, bannon is the one who is saying flood the zone with crap, to use a different word. Hes not a person who supports democracy. He admires lennon. These are illiberal populists. These people are dangerous and everything you see now it is trickle down until the into the House Of Representatives is dysfunctional as well hell, the rhetoric, propaganda, and reminding our institutions, this is all part of that ploy to undermine our democracy to the demagogues and dictators and people like steve bannon in the matt gaetzs of the world have power in influence, for . What clicks . Viral moments . A show on fox . Its a tempting delusion for every sort of tightly radicalized Small Minoritarian faction, they can be lenin, they can show up at the Winter Palace of the right time to take power. They create leverage that doesnt exist, even if they dont have majority support. That is always the dream of every vanguard faction. In a healthy democracy it doesnt work that way. When youve got one little tiny caucus of one house of a government thats a Constitutional Republic with checks and balances. It doesnt mean theyre not gonna try or raise a lot of money and got get a lot of hours of podcasting content out of. It four hours a day. Jesus,. Lord matt fuller, tara setmayer, thank you very much. For hours, really . Don trump is creating a Spectral Outside The Court but inside the sworn testimony outlines decades of fraud is painting an extremely damning picture. Thats next. Thats next. From unitedhealthcare. Medicare supplement plans help by paying some of what medicare doesnt. And let you see any doctor. Any specialist. Anywhere in the u. S. Who accepts medicare patients. So if you have this. Consider adding this. Call unitedhealthcare today for your free decision guide. Theos nose was cause for alarm, so dad brought puffs plus lotion to save it from harm. Puffs has 50 more lotion and brings soothing relief. Dont get burned by winter nose. A nose in need deserves puffs indeed. Americas 1 lotion tissue. The last few days we saw the news about donald trump sitting as a defendant in a Civil Fraud Trial. Its not totally clear why he is there, because he doesnt need to show up its not like a criminal trial where the defendant has to be there. I didnt expect him to show. I made a joke about betting against. It i wouldve lost that. One theory for his presence that i find plausible is that this, trial more than any of his other half dozen civil cases, goes to the heart of his persona. This trial says, with the success and wealth that trump buildss entire persona around for nearly six decades is now fake. Its the original con. Its like on the predates all the other cons. The image that he is a successful businessman, worth a lot of money, and in Downtown Manhattan this week prosecutors are forensically dissecting that con, taking it apart day by day, in a court of law, with concrete evidence. For donald trump, that is an attack on who he is at his core. Lisa rubin has been watching this, and she joins me here. Youve been he wrote a piece on this essential question, why is he there. Its a mystery, or . Isnt he right that hes evil to show his contempt for a potentially rattle witnesses, scowling at them. And judge prosecutor inefficient james herself just by being their most importantly trump came to court to play victim and raise money because hes coming out every day, and we can send the solicitations. Out he has been sending solicitations. On my count, based on emails we have received from our colleagues, at least four in the last four days alone, and in each one of them he tells his supporters, i have been sitting in a new york courtroom because i am standing up to the corrupt to do your car tierney general. Im standing up to all the radical Leftist Marxists who are conspiring to keep me out of office. It is kind of like a word salad of trump legal bingo, take your Stock Phrases and he matches it all up. It remains to be seen how much money he has raised from it, but i think that the Intimidation Factor is not to be discounted. The Fundraising Factor is a big one. And also, collapsing the news cycle. Because all of the people who would follow trump on the Campaign Trail are now in the court, and it has allowed the coverage of the trial to be principally about him and the politics and not about what is going on in the courtroom itself. A perfect segue to the latter. You have been. There what is the case against him . What is the evidence the presenting . The cases are moving very slowly. I will tell you what the new York Attorney general has been trying to do for the last three days, which is show that over a course of years, trump was, essentially, deceiving his accountants just as he deceived his banks and lenders as well, that he was not giving his accountants the full picture of his finances, that he was not sharing with them reports, for example. Trumps people trying to take that apart and say Donald Bender, who was his leader counter for many years on the stand, right . Weve seen a little bit of another witness, cameron harris, the successor to Donald Bender and a different. Familiar call Donald Benders film firm, resigned from the Trump Organization because they are concerned about what they didnt see. Something that was only brought to their attention by the manhattan district attorney, which Donald Bender testified to a couple of days ago. But what trumps lawyers are trying to do is poke holes in Donald Bender and say this guy was a real bad accountant. He was the only cpa involved in the statements of financial condition. The trump people should have been allowed to rely upon him. The problem with that is that their contractual relationship, their engagement letters, what are called representation letters, show anything but. At all times the Trump Organization itself had been responsibility to give Donald Bender a full and accurate picture of their financial condition, and Donald Bender said back to them in the engagement, its not my responsibility to verify the accuracy of what youre telling me. I, like many, people are hired accounted to do my taxes, i, shoutout great guy. Theres a form you sign basically that says, because every counted has to do this, it basically says, you are certifying your being truthful with me, and i am doing your taxes based on what you have furnished me and what you have told me and i have to trust you are telling me the truth, because i cant independently researches vouch for it. If the government comes to you and it turns out you lied to me, its not life fault. I am not liable for you lying to me if the government comes knocking. Look, there are different kinds of Accounting Engagements the corporate accountants to. And certainly in an audit, the responsibility to look under the curtains and figure out whats going on is much more fulsome than it is in what is called a compilation of financial statements. But thats what the last three days have been about, showing that in a compilation of statement engagement, which is what la zarras did for donald trump, the role is necessarily limited, and there is sponsored responsibility rests with the clients. You cant bear blame us for the client lying to us. Youre giving us a full and accurate picture in your signature of your finances in the value of your assets. The Case Writ Large is that he was lying to everyone. There is some tiny little group of people that know the truth, and maybe even no one actually knows the truth because its so complex underneath there. I want to be clear, Donald Bender is not exactly an innocent here. Do i think hes a decent accountant . Absolutely not. Would i hire him . Now. [laughter] but both things can be true. He could be complicit because the Trump Organization paid him 2 million a year. He can be complicit in looking the other. Way thats a lot. And simultaneously being a victim. Both things can be true and either one alleviates the responsibility of the Trump Organization to tell the truth, not only to their accounted but to their banks and lenders, which they didnt do and which the Attorney General is saying, disrupted the integrity of the Financial Markets in new york. All right, lisa rubin, that was great. Still to come, we have reached observed levels of republicans reaching for a new speaker. If you dont believe me, he is here is congresswoman Reggie Taylor greene. We only have one choice to save america, alex, and its President Trump. Im going into this next speakers race and the only candidate i am supporting is donald john trump. Yeah Man Max Worldview hosted by alex jones it for hours every day. A real push to make this man, Speaker Of The House. Next. Next smelling ew. Gotta get rid of this. Tell me why because it stinks. Have you tried downy rinse and refresh it helps remove odors 3x better than detergent alone. The Speaker Of The House is it worked guys Yeahhhh Downy rinse and refresh. One of the most important jobs in american government. Its in the constitution. Its arguably the most powerful office in congress. The speakers highest profile night, of course, is when they sit behind the president during the State Of The Union address. Kevin mccarthy had the honor to do that exactly once, earlier this year, during his only state of the Union Speaker of the house. He spent a good chunk of the night shaking his head and stretching the extreme wing of his party, which just fired him yesterday. Mccarthy will almost certainly never have that opportunity again. There is now a campaign to see who will sit behind President Biden during next years and some conservatives think it should be the guy running against biden. Now, sources telling the at this hour, some House Republicans have been in contact with and have started an effort to draft former President Donald Trump to be the next speaker. And i have been told that President Trump might be open to helping. Troy nehls, the congressman from texas, was even saying, why dont we put President Trump in . There he could be speaker, which actually is legal. Its true. He could do both. He could do both. You know who hates them the most . Washington d. C. Going into this next speakers race, and the only candidate i am supporting his donald john trump. Okay. On the one hand, its obviously preposterous. I cant think of a job that guy wants to do less. But can you imagine trump sitting through Conference Meetings About Budget Policy Or Playing Mediator in Intraparty Squabbles . Of course not. The indicted donald trump is more likely to be locked up in the big house than the Speaker Of The House. On the other hand, Electing Donald Trump Speaker Of The House would just be cutting out the middleman. Hes already the guy giving Marching Orders to the entire Republican Party and republican conference. Earlier today, the ex president shared this image on social media, depicting him holding the speakers gavel. And in a sort of perfect encapsulation of todays Republican Party, less than 24 hours after the maga Monster Republicans created and nurtured, ousted a sitting speaker For The First Time, the choice impeached four times indicted loser stood amidst his Civil Fraud Trial and proudly told the country he would consider replacing mccarthy. A lot of people have been calling me to ask me speaker. All i can say best for the country in the Republican Party. A lot of people have asked me about it. If it can help them people in the Republican Party who can do a great job as speaker. Its probably just attentionseeking buster and, as the rules currently stand, it doesnt even seem like trump could be speaker while under federal indictment. There is actually a rule about that. But again, i dont know. Never bet against the stupidest thing happening in American Politics. Yesterday showed there is no limit to the struggle selfdestruct of nature of the House Republican conference. It means it is possible, i guess. We will talk about it, next. About it, next. Hey little bear bear. Im gonna love you forever cmon, bear. You dont. You dont have to worry. Be by your side. Ill be there. With my arms wrapped around. The virus that causes shingles is sleeping. In 99 of people over 50. Its lying dormant, waiting. And could reactivate. Shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. And it could wake at any time. Think youre not at risk for shingles . Its time to wake up. Because shingles could wake up in you. If youre over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. Woman whos that, who is that . Cole this is my puppy woman cancer. Its different in a child. Because your child is still growing. Charlie i had 14 rounds of chemo. Theres thousands and thousands of kids all over the world who need help. 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Report fever, stiff muscles or confusion which may mean a lifethreatening reaction, or uncontrollable Muscle Movements which may be permanent. High blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, weight gain and high cholesterol may occur. Movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects. Sleepiness and stomach issues are also common. Side effects may not appear for several weeks. Ask about vraylar and learn how abbvie could help you save. I think there ought to be serious consideration. Serious consideration for Donald J Trump to come back and be speaker, at least for some period of time. We want him back as president. So, why not make him Speaker Of The House, even if it is an interim speaker, while we work to find another speaker . Thats where we need him, at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. If he wants to be speaker, thats fine also. Best for the country, and for the Republican Party. Take that job . A lot of people have asked me about it. Republicans are already flooding the possibility of Making Al Trump Speaker Of The House, on one level it seems obviously we take a listen farfetched, but there is also some part of me that thinks, do not bet against the stupidest possible thing happening. I am worried that trump somehow thinks serving as speaker could protect him really, this is my theory, someone has told him this, that the speech debate clause of the constitution, Which Shields Members Of Congress from legal action over their legislative work could give him some kind of Magic Invisibility Cloak against prosecution. David plouffe served as Campaign Manager for the 2008 obama campaign, as Senior Adviser to president obama, and Michelle Goldberg is an Opinion Columnist at the new york times. Both join me now. David, i guess i will start with you. I dont really know what to do with this. At some point it seems like trolling. I think it would be disastrous in every direction. It would be disastrous for the Republican Party, i think its a terrible idea to make all your vulnerable members vote for a guy first speaker, and i think putting him back in the limelight would be bad. It would be one of those omnidirectional disasters. But again, that has never stopped things before. What do you make of it . Yeah, it is complete insanity. But i agree with you. And not zero. Particularly, in starting to talk about interim. Right. I could see him saying, ill come in here, maybe it will protect me legally, maybe it wont. But you pointed this out in your opening. Enough how sure seriously he took the job of president. Hated after 30 minutes. Yeah. At the end of the day, it speaks to the absolute dysfunction that predates this moment. I think, at the end of the day, we have seen a Republican Party now for decades, really, who, working with the other party, compromise any media outside of steve bannon, or alex jones, or fox news which is kind of considered a traitor to the cause by some now is not real. And thats what they operate in. So, its gonna be fascinating to see how this ends. If you are a betting person you would probably say, by this time next week, there is a republican speaker. Maybe his name is jordan, scalise, not trump. But Stranger Things have certainly happened. Yeah, heres the household, by the way. I thought it was interesting. Sean casten posted this. It is a House Republican coce will. A member who has been indicted or formally charged with criminal uct r a sentence of two or more Years Imprisonment maybe imposed should step aside from any conference or leadership positions. They have to violate that rule. Presumably, they could change their own rule. They could. Yes. Who is going to enforce it . The reason i think this is unlikely is because, unlike you, we think its just an omnidirectional disaster, i think there would be real good things for the country about this, in that i think donald trump in he is running neck and neck with joe biden, in part because he is just not in the spotlight. I have said this before. Id like to find it compelling. Also, he is running as an outsider. Right . If he gets in the speaker, he is in some ways a sort of incumbent, and people are going to remember what living under the rule of donald trump was like, and i think that that is much more likely, certainly more likely, than any of his indictments, to torpedo his president ial campaign. Yeah, i think thats right. I think it really is this weird consistent amnesia about just how bad he is among a small but significant and pivotal portion of the electorate. It was like five to 7 of the electorate where they forget with the dude is, unless they are reminded. And this would be a constant reminder. Right, a constant reminder. Yeah. Theres all sorts of things that just go over peoples heads. The increasingly nazify nazified rhetoric most people are not on twitter, but most people really arent on truth social. I think the media has maybe overlooking the lesson of 2016 of not letting him lead everyone around by the nose. Yes. Whether result is, he shouts these lunacys into the ether, and they really have to reach a certain level before they make the news. And one of the things as well, david, is congressional leadership tend to be unpopular nationally. It is almost sort of their job. I have basically seen this, i think, with every congressional leader ever mcconnell polls poorly, pelosi pulled poorly, tom daschle pulled poorly and lost his seat over. It harry reid polled poorly and i also want to what the political calculation like, if you were paid to advise big markers in the Republican Party about what to do about the speakership, what would you be telling them even . The problem, chris, is mccarthy getting deposed, its the latest example that the maga energy is not about winning 270 electoral votes or retaining a house majority, or winning the senate. Which is, having worked on the hill, having worked in the administration, you have got your governing duties. But when it comes to your political duties as, lets, a house leader or Senate Majority leader, you are thinking about swing districts, those states, those candidates. Yeah. And how do we appeal to those others . And thats clearly so, thats the advice i would give anybody. Which is, you need to nominate somebody for speaker who is going to help you retain the house majority. And help you win back the white house. But that is not the criteria they are going to use. It is going to be this crazy bake off of who can convince who to do the most crazy things to the country, not shutting down the government and never reopening it, right . And all we are going to do is impeachment. And that is, quite frankly, where the energy is. So, that is where i think even trump, i think i agree with michelle, it would be a disaster for him. And ultimately, i dont think it is going to happen. But i dont know if it is going to be for that, reason although i think it is a compelling reason. Because, at the end of the day, he, even though he has shown some you know, a little bit of not the swing voters, For The First Time in his political career, it is overshadowed by his increasing, really, violent rhetoric. But these House Republicans and having worked in the house, i cannot tell you how crazy it is to me, with a majority this narrow, that you are now looking through the windshield of those new york swing districts, as california swing districts. That should be what matters to you politically. But it doesnt. Yeah, mike lawler is out there trying to make a big think about how he hates us, and its like, bro, you are going to vote for donald trump. You voted yeah, i have to, say there has been this really if you have a Talking Point blaming democrats for not being the bigger party and saving mccarthy in exchange for nothing. But mike lawler and some of these other Swing District Republicans are welcome to join with democrats and find a consensus candidate. Thats right. And theres a lot of democrats that would be open to it totally even not to democrat, but somebody totally yeah, go to work, mike lawler. Michelle goldberg and david plouffe, dont go anywhere, we will be right back. Ght back td can be caused by some Mental Health meds. And its unlikely to improve without treatment. I felt like my movements were in the spotlight. 1prescribed ingrezza is the only td treatment for adults thats always one pill, once daily. 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Secret works ohhh yesss. Way back in 1982 we took care of about forty kids and had to turn away over two hundred and fifty. Ohhh yesss. Its the emotion of that moment that said man that just isnt fair, and i think it was at that moment that Operation Smile was born. Every three minutes a child is born with a cleft condition. Thousands are waiting for the cleft surgery and care your support gives. They need you. Give joy and a new smile. Scan the code or go online to give today. My names dan and i live here in san antonio, texas. My wife magda and i have been married for 39 years. About three or four years ago, i wasnt feeling as if i was as sharp as i used to be. I wanted to try something that was overthecounter. I saw the prevagen commercials. After a short amount of time taking prevagen, i started noticing a difference that im remembering this, im remembering that. I stopped taking prevagen and i found myself slacking back so i jumped right back on it. I feel as if its brought me back to the good ol days. Prevagen. At stores everywhere without a prescription. The way American Politics work not by design, its on the constitution, in fact the american founders founded argued just the way it works. And what we have experience in the last eight years in this country is one of those two major parties being captured by an increasingly authoritarian and dangerous faction. But it is still just a faction. It is not with the majority of the country once. And the big trick we need to figure out is how to represent the broad interests of the majority of the americans who do favor democracy. Right now, the faction is calling a lot of the shots. And we are going to have to solve that problem. That is all in on this wednesday night. Alex wagner tonight starts right now. Good evening, alex. Ht starts