Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240703

Infighting on the right as tensions explode. And tonight, republicans have no clear way out of the mess of their own making. A new Government Shutdown threat just over a month away, and very real questions about funding the military and the war in ukraine. Already, as republicans are searching for a new speaker, the same magafueled turmoil that took down mccarthy is on display. Multiple republicans already announcing bids, including jim jordan and Steve Scalise. Some on the far right and Foxs Sean Hannity floating Donald Trumps name as speaker. One republican senator giving his gop house colleagues some advice. This ousting of Speaker Mccarthy and now we have a pro tem as speaker. I dont have a lot of advice for my house colleagues, other than this. Follow your heart, but take your brain with you. Id also advise all of my house colleagues to be sure and take their meds. Take your meds. Now, thats a republican senator giving that advice. Kevin mccarthy now has two historic bookends to his speakership from 15 pathetic and desperate rounds of voting in january to his ignominious dismissal yesterday. Mccarthy in his remarks last night blaming democrats for his fate, and then, in the same vein, acting speaker Patrick Mchenry lashing out almost breaking a gavel and kicking former Speaker Nancy Pelosi and her top deputy, steny hoyer, out of their offices. But of course, no consequences for these eight republicans who drove mccarthys ouster, who voted against him, and betrayed him, ultimately telling him, youre fired. Thats where we begin. Joining me now is the Reverend Al Sharpton, the host of Politics Nation, and howard dean, former vermont governor and the former dnc chair. I should note that both of my guests shared the debate stage in 2004 as Democratic Candidates for president of the United States. Gentlemen, its an honor to start the show with you tonight. Rev, im going to start with you. I want to get your reaction to mccarthys stunning dismissal and the chaos that seems to have no end in sight. It was stunning in the sense that it has never happened before in history, and it seems that the republicans that are totally intimidated by this maga group, which is a relatively small group, has no kind of idea of how theyre being perceived by the american public. You would not think that they are trying to tell people that they should take the white house back, they should take the senate and the congress back, so i think the more they behave in the way theyre behaving, the better it is for the bidenharris ticket, the better it is for Hakeem Jeffries to become speaker, because who would go and vote to give this gang that cant shoot straight the white house on the Congress Next year . And by the way, when you have hannity suggesting that a man thats on trial for exaggerating and defrauding his wealth ought to be running as Speaker Of The House, when he has time between his four criminal cases and 91 felony indictments, you couldnt make this up if you tried. Now, howard, you ran democrats in primaries, including in 2005. Thats a normal part of politics. But did you ever think, in your career, youd witness the kind of internal Party Insanity that were seeing in what im calling the gops version of a civil war . Frankly never thought that the Republican Party would be a threat to democracy, which they have now become. They are incompetent. They are meanspirited, and i always say their platform is basically hate and anger, and thats what they hope is going to win for them, and they wont. So, i have a suggestion. I suggest that we think back to one of the greatest speakers of the of any legislature in the history of the United States, and thats willy brown. Willy brown became speaker with as a member of a minority because he got republican votes, and he allowed some of those republicans to chair committees in the california legislature. He was the longestserving speaker in the history of california and incredibly successful. Thats what we need to do. I think the big winner out of all this is Hakeem Jeffries. Hes shown that hes got what it takes to be speaker, and theres Nothing Better to show how pathetic the republicans are to have such to be so lowminded that the First Act Of The Speaker pro tem is to kick nancy pelosi out of her office. I dont want to see us retaliate for that. These people are pathetic, and we ought to take a page from willy brown. We ought to run a bipartisan House Of Representatives chaired with the speaker Hakeem Jeffries. So, rev, you know, mccarthy is predictably blaming The Democrats for being ousted. Hes not taking ownership or accountability for his share of what ended up happening to him. I want you to listen quickly to what he said last night. You need 218. Unfortunately, 4 of our conference can join all The Democrats and dictate who can be the republican speaker in this house. I dont think that rule is good for the institution. You know, rev, this is his own rule, though. This is a rule that he knew and he accepted. You live by the sword and you die by the sword, but lets be frank so americans who are listening now can understand. This debacle is a creation all of their own. This monster that theyve created, they have to own. He particularly has to own it. Im talking about mccarthy. Mccarthy agreed to the rule. He agreed to other things that this fringe group of the republicans who have now become the rulers of the party demanded. He was the same mccarthy that called donald trump into account on january 6th and told him it was his people, and then days later, hes down in maralago kissing the ring. So, its clear that Kevin Mccarthy would do anything, say anything to anybody, as long as he can get a temporary advantage. Hes a day trader, and hes not one that is interested in the way he behaves, in governing, or in protecting the American People. Its what he wants at that moment, the gavel or whatever else, and blame everyone else, and i think that he has a long time now to sit and reflect on how he made deals that were bound to catch up with him. That that you sow, you shall reap, and he reaped what he sowed yesterday. Howard, how do The Democrats capitalize on this . Its a chaos caucus. The chaos now spilling over into an entire chamber. How do they take it, and how do they really send the right messaging for americans to understand not only is it the republicans fault of their own, but this is certainly not something that should be put at the foot of democrats . There are about 12 Republican Congress people who are moderates and who are sitting in districts where joe biden won the district. If i were Hakeem Jeffries, i would go to those 12 people and say, we are prepared to work with you in the best interest of the United States, and if you could bring along some other people, that will be fine, and we will you will we will split the power with you. This is a house thats so closely divided, were not going to get anything done, especially with a farright controlling the Republican Party. The reason they control the Republican Party is not because the Republican Party is crazy. Its because they lack courage. They lack the ability to take on the extremists who really are authoritarians. So, i think its time to see if the we almost have enough votes. We will have to give up on some stuff that i care about thats more on the left. Im willing to do that for the sake of america, and i think jeffries has proven that he would be a far more reasonable, thoughtful speaker than mccarthy. Mccarthys Primary Problem was he had no soul. Nobody believed him. And when he gave his word, it wasnt any good. And that doesnt work either on the left or the right or the center. What jeffries has proven that he does have principles and hes willing to do what he thinks is right. I think were going to have to make some concessions, but i think a house run with a democratic majority and a republican minority, which is the only way The Democrats could run the house, is worth making the concessions for the sake of starting to bring the country together. We cant go on having the maga extremists run the Republican Party. We cant exist as a nation if this continues. You know, rev, while all this is going on and theyre trying to get their acts together, though, im concerned. Are americans listening, and are they watching . I know that they understand that there is chaos thats going on right now in d. C. , but are they really listening to whats going on . I think that it is probably the job of The Democrats to make sure that they know whats going on, to get that message out, and not let this happen under some kind of cover. But expose it. Let them all you have to do is give them the spotlight, and they will do the rest of the job for us. And i totally agree, when you put a clean glass next to a dirty glass, people know what to choose. To put Kevin Mccarthy or the new Temporary Speaker next to Hakeem Jeffries, ive known hakeem 30something years, hes a member of our organization. Hakeem is bright. Hakeem negotiated with people that are more progressive in their politics than him in the Democratic Caucus of the congress, and they came in as united front, and they did so in the deliberations that mccarthy needed 15 votes. So, who do you want, somebody in charge that can stabilize and bring people together, or do you want people that the biggest thing they can decide on is try to evict somebody out of an office like that means something . Before the ink was even dry. Reverend al sharpton, howard dean, stay with me. I got a 60second break right now. K right now. And coming up, donald trump hit with an extraordinary rebuke today from new York Attorney general Letitia James. We have not seen this before. Also later, how the gop chaos is rattling conservative narratives and fox hosts, playing out all on camera. Before were through, senator cory booker on the Dysfunction Engulfing the gop. Were back in just 60 seconds. I. Were back in just 60 seconds. Now, sources telling me at this hour some House Republicans have been in contact with and have started an effort to draft former President Donald Trump to be the next speaker, and i have been told that President Trump might be open to helping the Republican Party. So, lets be clear. Hes not the president. The president s joe biden, not President Trump, but that suggests that some conservatives have not learned a single thing, because just hours after a maga lawmaker toppled the gop speaker, triggering internal republican mayhem, which, to be clear, donald trump did nothing to stop, fox host sean hannity floating the idea of the twiceimpeached quadruple indicted disgraced expresident as the next Speaker Of The House. Republican congressman troy neal claiming hes spoken with several other gop lawmakers who feel the same way. Of course, he doesnt identify who they are. And now, rightwing talk of trump could fizzle, but his influence on the speaker race itself most likely will not, pointing to magas grip and why its so hard for republicans to climb out of the ditch that theyve dug for themselves. Were back with the Reverend Al Sharpton and howard dean. My question to you first. The ink wasnt dry before sean hannity and others immediately began floating Donald Trumps name. What is in that koolaid that theyre drinking that they just cant quit trump . Whos sean hannity . Thats great. Look, whatever the name of that network is where the head guy just retired, may he retire in much peace, nobody gives a damn what fox says except for people who are already committed to the maga philosophy. So, i dont think its Worth Speculating on any of that. Whats wrecking the republicans is theyre putting themselves ahead of the country. I mean, i dont know much about scalise. Jim jordan, all he wants to do is get revenge on a variety of democrats and investigate them all. He offers nothing, except possibly covering up a sex scandal in ohio, but well get to that later. So, you know, these guys dont offer the country anything, and thats what the big problem is. Thats why im serious, i think its time for a coalition of republicans who do care about the country, with democrats who also care about the country, we got to work stuff out, and as i say, its not going to be all the things i want. Ive got a long list of things i want. Universal health care for people and so forth and so on. I know were not going to get that out of the congress that i just described, but weve got to balance the budget. Weve got to support ukraine because they used to say if we dont fight them there, theyre going to be fighting us in texas. You know, weve got to take this stuff seriously, and what weve seen so far is just a Middle School Mess by the republicans who cant get out of their own way. But rev, what does it say, though, that within minutes of Mccarthy Being booted out of his house speakership, youre already having trumps name . The reason why i bring this up, and i agree with howard that it kind of gives oxygen to a stupid idea, but i think it just goes to show, though, that trump, who didnt even bother to help mccarthy, lets be clear, right . He didnt a phone a friend didnt happen, so mccarthy doesnt get the help that he needs, doesnt get the assist that he needs from trump, and yet trumps name is automatically reverted to, and i concur that jordan and scalise, these are other more viable candidates, and trumps really not, and yet it does Say Something, though, that the partys willing to actually entertain somebody like donald trump as Speaker Of The House. Because they have turned into a cult, so everything goes back to the cult leader, and his narcissism, hes probably enjoying every minute of it. But lets be clear. Were talking about them turning over the speakers gavel, if they are, and according to hannity, there are sources saying that, who, if he became speaker, he would be third in line to be president of the United States while hes on Criminal Trial For Giving for stealing secrets, classified information, that has to do with the security of the United States. Who in their right mind would even think of giving that to this person, not only under investigation, hes under indictment, and you want to put him third in line to the presidency of the United States . Be my guest. It would guarantee hakeem will become speaker and guarantee that biden and Kamala Harris would be reelected. I wish they would do it. Be my guest. So, howard, i did have to ask, too, doesnt this entire fiasco and debacle create incentive for Kevin Mccarthy to reveal those backroom deals that he struck during those 15 rounds of votes to become the speaker . You know that theyre there. We know they exist. I hate to say this in the presence of a wellrespected media reporter, but no. This is Middle School drama. Who gives a damn what mccarthy said . Mccarthy undid himself by not keeping his word to anybody. He made a deal with biden. He broke it. He made a deal with the right wing. He broke it. He made a deal with The Democrats. He broke it. Thats why nobody came to his defense. It was conceivable that if mccarthy were an honorable person and kept his word, The Democrats would have supported him because, in fact, that would have helped our agenda, not just their agenda. So, mccarthys goose is cooked no matter what happens, and this ridiculous nonsense that engulfs the media about who did what to who, that is irrelevant to the future of the country, except to send the message that these people are incompetent and you cannot trust maga republicans to run this country and preserve our democracy. Rev, i got less than a minute. Last question to you. Based upon what howard just said, if Kevin Mccarthy is so untrustworthy, doesnt honor deals, is it really that bad that Kevin Mccarthys gone now . I think that it is not bad that he is gone. The opportunity was, though, for him to step up and try and deal like an adult. He didnt. He came in like a child, he left like a child, and hes being replaced by people that act just as childish as him. My mama says, dont let the door hit you in the on the way out. Reverend al sharpton and howard dean, gentlemen, thank you for getting us started today. And a very happy birthday to the Reverend Al Sharpton. Thank you. 32 years old today. Very good. 33. Dont cheat, howard. Dont cheat. 33. Not a day over. You can catch Politics Nation with the Reverend Al Sharpton weekends at 5 00 p. M. Eastern right here on msnbc. But still to come on this very busy night, in georgia, d. A. Fani willis reportedly extending more plea deals with those rico defendants. Also new details on questions that special counsel jack smith is asking key witnesses about Rudy Giuliani. And donald trump back in court today for His Civil Fraud Case as new York Attorney general Letitia James absolutely rips into him. L Letitia James ay rips into him. Mr. Trumps comments were offensive. They were baseless. Comments that i would describe as racebaiting. I t would descre as racebaiting. Re delectables. You know, that lickable cat treat . Delickable delectables . Yes, just hurry. Hmm. It must be delicious. Delectables lickable treat. Your record label is taking off. But so is your sound engineer. You need to hire. I need indeed. Indeed you do. Indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. Visit indeed. Com hire as americans, theres one thing we can all agree on. The promise of our constitution and the hope that liberty and justice is for all people. But heres the truth. Attacks on our constitutional rights, yours and mine are greater than theyve ever been. The right for all to vote. Reproductive rights. The rights of immigrant families. The right to equal justice for black, brown and lgbtq folks. The time to act to protect our rights is now. Thats why im hoping youll join me today in supporting the American Civil Liberties union. Its easy to make a difference. Just call or go online now and become an aclu guardian of liberty. All it takes is just 19 a month. Only 0. 63 a day. Your monthly support will make you part of the movement to protect the rights of all people, including the fundamental right to vote. States are passing laws that would suppress the right to vote. We are going backwards. But the aclu cant do this important work without the support of people like you. You can help ensure liberty and justice for all and make sure that every vote is counted. So please call the aclu now or go to my aclu. Org and join us. When you use your credit card, youll receive this special We The People tshirt and much more. To show youre a part of the movement to protect the rights guaranteed to all of us by the us constitution. We protect everyones rights, the freedom of religion, the freedom of expression, racial justice, lgbtq rights, the rights of the disabled. We are here for everyone. It is more important than ever to take a stand. So please join us today. Because We The People means all the people, including you. So call now or go online to my aclu. Org to become a guardian of liberty. I wanna hold you forever hey little bear bear. Im gonna love you forever cmon, bear. You dont. You dont have to worry. Be by your side. Ill be there. With my arms wrapped around. vo sure you can get data everywhere but do you have to use it all the time . L be there. Thats not really you. With tracfone, you get great coverage all on nationwide 5g. For a lot less. Plans start at 15 a month nocontract. Tracfone. Heres why you should switch from chrome to duckduckgo. Duckduckgo is a browser you download to your mobile and desktop devices. Unlike chrome, the Duckduckgo Browser has privacy builtin. It comes with a private alternative to google search, which doesn■t spy on your searches, and it blocks cookies and creepy ads. And theres no catch. Its free. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you around. Join the millions of people taking back their privacy by Downloading Duckduckgo On Mobile and desktop today. Trump was back in court today for day three of his new york civil fraud trial. New York Attorney general Letitia James also making an appearance, and she had some very strong words for the former president. Mr. Trumps comments were offensive. They were baseless. They were void of any facts and or any evidence. What they were were comments that unfortunately fomented violence and comments that i would describe as racebaiting, and comments, unfortunately, that appeals to the bottom of our humanity. I will not be bullied, and so mr. Trump is no longer here. The donald trump show is over. Powerful. And showing that Letitia James has got trumps number. This is coming just one day after the judge imposed a limited gag order on trump, warning that there will be serious sanctions if he disobeys the order. But that didnt stop trump from slamming the judge again today. The bottom line is this is rigged. The judge knows whatever hes going to do. He said that maralago was worth 18 million, and its worth 1. 5 billion or thereabouts. But he said it was worth 18 million. So, they defrauded us, because he called me a fraud. He called me a fraud. Saying things like this . Probably not a good idea. And attorney general james isnt the only prosecutor whos closing in o trump. Down in georgia,. Fani willis is turning up heat, reportedly offering plea deals to a handful of lower level defendants, a sign that the prosecution may be honing in on bigger targets like trump. And theres also movement out of trumps legal troubles in d. C. , special counsel jack smith appears to be trying to undercut a potential trump defense. Reportedly asking witnesses about his lawyer, Rudy Giulianis, Alcohol Consumption while he was advising trump. The New York Times reporting that this could complicate any efforts by trumps team to lean on a socalled advice of counsel defense, becau if such guidance came from someone whom trump knew to be compromised by alcohol, his argument could weaken. And giuliani himself may be in trouble. Its kind of an evergreen statement these days. Reports they that he has lost a second lawyer and has no local legal team down in georgia. Joining me now is glen kirschner, msnbc legal analyst, also host of Justice Matters and christy greenberg. Its a pleasure to have both of you this evening. I wanted to get your reaction to what Letitia James said today about trumps grandstanding. You know, shes calling it the way she sees it. I was heartened, katie, that the judge issued what i would call a snap gag order. I mean, he saw what donald trump did, endangering, doxxing one of his law clerks, and frankly, as you know, katie, law clerks are kind of the unsung hero of the court system. Many of them are volunteers. Some of them are salaried, but theyre not paid all that well. And they are doing the hard work of really supporting the judge and keeping these cases up and running, and for donald trump to post a picture of her, post her name, lie about her, calling her Chuck Schumers girlfriend, i was so pleased to see the judge instantly remedy that by issuing what the judge called a gag order, so hopefully that will send a signal to other judges that, you know what . The time has come for the law to be applied as it was intended to be applied, put some narrowly limited and narrowly tailored restrictions in place on Donald Trumps speech and on Donald Trumps post to stop his reckless and dangerous rhetoric, and i think were about to see that come october 16th down in washington, d. C. , because that is when there will be a hearing before judge Tanya Chutkan to decide whether shes going to impose some limitations on Donald Trumps speech. You know, christy, how unusual is it i mean, were all former prosecutors in the mix right here. How unusual is it to see someone in a role like attorney general speak out as bluntly and directly as Letitia James did today . It is unusual, but the circumstances of all of this is unusual. Its also unusual for a defendant in a case to post a picture and a derogatory post about a law clerk. Were in Uncharted Territory here, and i think, look, i think calling out what was going on here in that this was the donald trump show, this was another version of a reality tv for him, i think was an important thing for her to do, to really speak out and defend her case. This is not a rigged system. This is a case that was brought and that has real evidence, and the judge has already evaluated one cause of action in that case and has already found there to be fraud, so this is not something that she has done lightly. She undertook years of investigation in bringing this case and its, you know, very detailed complaint. Shes got months of the trial to go to present her evidence, and lets actually determine this based on the evidence and not based on Donald Trumps antics. Glen, i want to shift gears and head down to georgia, because there was a really kind of rushed surprise plea deal that was taken last friday afternoon by one of those 19 defendants in that rico prosecution, and then the Atlanta Journalconstitution reporting that fani willis has been extending plea offers, so i want our viewers to understand. The extending of the plea offers is actually a regular thing that happens. Its not an indication of the strength or the weakness of fani williss case, but its something that was done. I was not in court but Watching Mcafee last week, the judge, and he actually asked the lawyers for Kenneth Chesebro and Sidney Powell and said, have you received offers . And the state, were going to convey offers, judge. Glen, can you explain very quickly for our viewers why these offers would have been conveyed at this stage . Katie, im so glad you made that point because ive seen chatter about, well, fani williss case must be weak. Let me give you a quick concrete example. We had a case in d. C. Where we indicted more than two dozen defendants in a rico conspiracy case and what we did is began to extend plea offers, some with cooperation, in other words, we wanted them to flip, and some without cooperation because we just wanted to call them out because we didnt need their testimony against their fellow conspirators, and after we indicted more than two dozen, we winnowed it down to 13, and then we did a series of three rico trials against those 13 defendants. This is the ordinary course of business, and this is precisely what fani willis is doing, and lets face it, she already got a significant guilty plea from Bail Bondsman scott hall. Why is it significant . Because just a couple of weeks down the road from right now, Sidney Powell and Kenneth Chesebro Sidney Powell is going to trial, and it sure looks like, based on the available evidence, that scott hall and Sidney Powell were joined at the hip in some of the crimes that are alleged to have been committed in connection with compromising the Coffee County voting equipment. It looks like scott hall may be able to provide some sharply and directly incriminating evidence against Sidney Powell. So, lets keep an eye out to see how he testifies, because the trial will be televised and livestreamed. Kristy, lets talk about Rudy Giuliani, the latest news today, also his Second Local Georgia Counsel moving to withdraw. That order hasnt been entered, but the other one has for the first lawyer who withdrew. Hes currently not going to have any local counsel. I want you to read some tea leaves for you, not going to hold you to it, but what does that mean when you see Rudy Giuliani facing significant rico counts, not having any local counsel in atlanta thats willing to represent him . Well, he has his former lawyer, mr. Costello, who is now suing him because he was not paid. So, lawyers like to get paid. I imagine that is at least part of the problem that Rudy Giuliani has. But its just such what a Fall From Grace for someone whos the former u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york, my old office, who has connections to other lawyers, who was a decorated lawyer at one time himself. To not be able to find counsel, its really just it shows just what a what a Fall From Grace and what a just difficult position he finds himself in and you know, some of the reporting today about the special counsel investigating and asking questions about his being impaired, you know, and Drinking Alcohol on Election Night and other nights, i mean, this is somebody who is certainly not an ideal client, and so i think its going to be difficult for him to find counsel, certainly counsel thats not already conflicted and on the case, but also counsel that wants to deal with Rudy Giuliani. Fall from grace, difficult client, seems to be a very popular phrase that we hear a lot these days when it comes to these cases. Glenn kirschner, kristy greenberg, always great to see you both. Glenn, we do this because Justice Matters. Thanks for being here. And a lot to come, including fox hosts are being forced to deal with the gop dysfunction, because theres no running from it. And democratic senator cory booker on the literal absence of gop leadership. The literal absef gop leadership your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel nothing beats it. New pronamel active shield actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. I think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients it really works. Children are the greatest joy and our best hope for a better future. Friends, they are the future. But did you know that millions of kids right here in our own backyard are facing hunger every day without healthy food . Its harder to grow, to thrive, to feel their best. The impact when children dont have enough to eat is tremendous because when youre hungry and your basic needs arent being met, you cannot learn. Thats why im here now, asking you to join me in helping end child hunger in america. This is a problem we know how to solve, and we can do it better by supporting no kid hungry for just 0. 63 a day, only 19 a month. 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She has no idea shes sitting on a goldmine. Well she doesnt know that if she owns a Life Insurance policy of 100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. Even a term policy. Even a term policy . Even a term policy find out if youre sitting on a goldmine. Call Coventry Direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect. Com. Were back with the republican chaos in d. C. Joining me now is democratic senator cory booker of new jersey. Senator, its good to see you. Your take on what were seeing in the house right now with republicans attacking republicans. Its a symptom of the civil war going on with the Republican Party for their identity. Are they going to be an extreme right, which is really a narrow band of the American People who believe its my way or the highway, will tear the house down rather than do what youre sent here to do, which is to govern, to negotiate, to cooperate, and to get things done for the American People. And so, this kind of brinksmanship, this kind of political sort of terrorism where theyre holding hostage the functioning of the House Of Representatives is frankly very frustrating, disappointing, and look, we are no great show of accord in the United States senate, but we are getting Spending Bills done, voted out of committee. We are cooperating. Were partnering on everything from keeping the government open all the way to the urgency of funding the Ukrainian Resistance against the russian invasion. So, isnt the fact that mccarthy is still blaming everybody other than himself for his loss just Proof Positive that The Democrats were right not to support his bid . Well, i think they were right, really, when i look at the way they felt like they couldnt trust him. January 6th, that horrible, shameful, ignominious day, he came out and said the right thing. We need to conduct an investigation. And then he turned around and said, were not going to support any independent investigation. He said, with schumer and mcconnell and the president and Hakeem Jeffries that i agree, i commit to a deal to avoid a shutdown excuse me, to avoid defaulting on the government debt, and then he walked away from that deal. He betrayed it. And then something as simple as impeachment, he said, look, there should be a vote of the full senate, of the full House Of Representatives, before we proceed, and then he kowtowed to that very thin extreme margin. So, i understand a lot of my democratic colleagues in the house who are frustrated and saying, can we trust him . He seems to be a guy that wants his position far more than the larger purpose of having a House Of Representatives that actually gets the peoples business done. Which, by the way, is a criticism that some republicans were saying about Kevin Mccarthy, that there was favoritism and that he was rewarding favors by doing that, but i have to ask you, senator, where and how can The Democrats maybe put their finger on the scale a little bit to tip the outcome of who ends up being the next Speaker Of The House . Youre looking at the likes of jim jordan and Steve Scalise who are putting their hats in the ring for that job. Yeah, i dont know. And im not sure if i would advise anyone over there to get into that. I think the Political Science term is mishegas on the other side of the capitol. This is a moment where the American People who vote for the House Of Representatives put it in a very narrowly divided situation, perhaps as an indication that they want the House Of Representatives to find ways to work together, to do bipartisan things, to understand that negotiation and compromise is how we, as a nation, from our very start, were able to move forward. And so, i am hoping that the Republican Party that has been hijacked, again, by very thin margin of extremists, begins to understand that this is a civil war that we have to end. We have to start regaining our identity and doing the kind of things that most of the House Republicans, i believe, swore oaths to come and do, to do whats best for this nation, to do whats best for the country, and to find ways to work with other members to get good things done for the people. Senator, i do have to ask, there is going to be a very serious outcome thats going to affect all americans, though, regardless of the chaos thats happening in the house, November 17th is the next deadline for a Government Shutdown. Its going to affect all americans, and you can say what the republicans are doing now but its going to impact americans, so what can be done . What can you guys in the senate do to help get this plane landed so americans are not adversely affected when they cant even get a speaker because they cant even vote on these bills until you have a Speaker Of The House. I was proud in our body, there was no appetite or little appetite for a Government Shutdown, and people were willing to get things done. What can we do in the senate . Im hoping all of us have people that represent our states in the House Of Representatives, to have those kind of constructive conversations in hopes they can land some place that the next Speaker Of The House isnt beholden to a few members, that its beholden to the larger caucus and the purpose the House Of Representatives has to play if were going to fund the government, fund the efforts in ukraine, and frankly turn our attention to some of the bigger problems that should be dominating american discourse right now, like the health care excuse me, the Child Care Cliff were about to go through with three millionplus children will lose highquality child care or the fact that we allow the biggest tax cut in my lifetime and many generations, the Child Tax Credit expansion, which gave 80 to 90 of American Families some help when they needed it, we allowed that to lapse and a Collateral Deficit of that, a big consequence of that was Child Poverty going up nearly 50 . This is a time that American Families need those kind of supports, getting more of their tax money back, getting more support for American Families. We know that theres an issue with affordability in america, and we havent turned our attention to that, because right now, the House Of Representatives, which should be in session, has been shut down, again, by their lack of a leader. May saner heads prevail. Or cooler heads. Either way. Ill take sane and cool heads any time. Senator cory booker, thanks for joining us this evening. Thank you very much. Appreciate you. And coming up, not even fox hosts can sugarcoat it. What weve got is total chaos when the republicans are playing out their infighting on National Television in a historic way. N n television in a historic way struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1 . Ask about vraylar. Because you are greater than your bipolar 1, and you can help take control of your symptoms with vraylar. 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With mccarthys ouster the house gop dysfunction is so extraordinary not even the folks on fox can sugar coat it. The Republican Party looks like theyre out of commission. What weve got is total chaos when the republicans are playing out their infighting on National Television in a historic way. This was a personal thing. Its a personal thing thats being acted out publicly. And you know what, its kind of pathetic. I think its nihilistic. I dont know what they seek to accomplishment and whoever will be the next speaker, they will try to vacate that person. And round and round theyll go. Former speaker Newt Gingrich also on the attack, writing that matt gaetz should be kicked out of the caucus. Blasting him as an antirepublican who has become actively destructive to the conservative movement. Gingrich then taking his message to the fox air waves. Because ultimately matt gaetz who hates lets be clear, he hates Kevin Mccarthy, was determined to find a way to get to today. No doubt about it. I think its disgraceful. I hope they expel him from the conference. Rnc chair Ronna Mcdaniel also frustrated and saying this on fox business. I dont know how this helps us beat joe biden. I think every republican right now has to wake up everyday and say, how does this help us beat The Democrats in november . We cant do this next year. We cannot do this and win. If this happens again, we are jeopardizing a very small house majority. So, this is not the kind of messaging that fox viewers usually hear. Its a sign, though, of just how deeply this chaos is rattling conservatives. Joining me now is former Republican Congressman from virginia, riggleman served as a Senior Adviser to the january 6th House Select Committee and also a bestselling author of the breach about the January 6th Investigation and hes currently working with Hunter Bidens legal team. Denver, its always so good to have you here. You and i always talk about how our currency, our facts, evidence, science, the hard stuff, right, the data. Thats what we rely upon. None of that happens in the gop usually. But you used to be a member of the gop and used to be a member of the kind of very right of center kind of group. So your reaction to the Self Cannibalization thats going on. Lord of the flies in there, you know. And i think what i would have done if that was happening, run as fast as i can and jumped out the window in the speakers lobby. I mean, what else can you do right now . I keep hearing that its unprecedented but is it really surprising after the past couple years, katie, and whats happened. And ive been using the best way i can describe it, katie, is this, crazy is contagious. And you are who you spoon with. And if youre going to be spooning with crazy, thats going to rub off on you. And now you have this fractious gop where people are screaming like Newt Gingrich that you just showed. The base loves it. Im telling you right now, this isnt like matt gaetz will be expelled from the conference and all of a sudden hell lose his next election in florida. Theyll be fundraising off of this. The eight that actually voted against or voted for the motion to vacate, theyre fundraising on this and doing well. Im going to tell you right now, even the people who voted for mccarthy has to go explain to some of their republican committees why they did. Why they did vote for mccarthy. That is incredible. So right now, as far as the gop base is concerned, what happened with the motion to vacate was a longtime coming and i think actually it probably strengthens the Freedom Caucus and strengthens some of the other individuals in the conference right now. Denver, lets be clear, many of these conservatives clutching their pearls about all of this chaos. Theyre still afraid to criticize the grand wizard, donald trump. Why is that the case . Because he started this. Chris christie said it right. Donald trump started all of this. Matt gaetz is just continuing on next gen style. So, why are they still so afraid to criticize donald trump . Because polling and fundraising, if you put those together, katie, Polling Plus Fundraising equals belly crawling. And right now the base if youre looking at him winning the primaries right now or being the Presumptive Republican nominee, they cant do it. If your whole life is just to get reelected where you dont really care about america, dont care about the truth, dont care about what we talked about 1s and 0s being the best witness whats happening in the world today, only care about winning and r plus 10 or 8 district or more and that says donald trump has 72 support, youll support donald trump to win the election regardless of what he says, how he acts. You have to cover down. And that is whats so bad about the tribal nature of Politics Today especially when you have one of the tribes, one of the major parties in a hold my beer moment. Thats what we have right now. Theyre not those individuals who voted to keep mccarthy arent going to go out against trump. They cant. They have to rationalize why they voted for mccarthy. And by the way, katie, not too long until we have to worry about this whole budget thing, funding of the government thats coming up. Do you want jim jordan going through that . Is that what you really want . And i guess my head is about to explode. Because we dont have adults in the room anymore. Seems like children. Going around throwing Chucky Cheese Balls at each other and screaming. I was going to Say Something worse but ill stop right there, katie. Well, i compared it last night to mean girls. Matt gaetz pulling a regina george. We know how that happens to regina gorge at the end of mean girls. Mack ya velen and you and i are here to sort it out. Cory booker calling it mish gous. Go get a bourbon, end this night. Im going to get one. On my way to get a bourbon right now. Thank you, katie. 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