Donald trump takes his campaign into a New York City courthouse. The former president attends day one of his Civil Fraud Trial. His lawyers play to an audience of one. And make this him arguments of the judge has already picked up apart. Former Manhattan District Attorney cyrus vance for the and Preet Bharara are on standby for the reaction. And theyre coming up first. Plus, Prosecutor Pepper dan goldman joins me now to discuss the spectacle and what played out in his district in manhattan today. Also breaking, today matt gaetz officially fusses motion to kick housekeeper Kevin Mccarthy out of his job. Ill ask republican congressman Bill Buck What the future will look like without him. So the kickoff of donald trump s Civil Fraud Trial in new york today was chockfull of the kind of bluster that weve all come to expect from the former president. Not really a big surprise. But he can huff and puff all he wants. The thing is in this case, trumps day of reckoning has already. Come the judges already found him liable of fraud. Hes already decided to revoke trumps business licenses, and thats a massive blow to trumps image of the selfmade billionaire in Real Estate Guru that hes presented himself as for decades. While his bravado might work in the court of Public Opinion, weve seen that play out in the republican primary, it doesnt work in the court of law in the same way. As the new York Attorney general said today, quote, in might be one thing to exert for forbes magazine, you cannot do it while Conducting Business in the state of new york. Nor should you be able to. Its not just a question of how much trump must pay. Thats what this trial is all about. The future of trumps namesake company. In making their case today, the attorney Generals Team really pulled back the curtain. Revealing exactly how the trump campaigny value the properties. The presentation included a deposition from former trump lawyer Michael Cohen who said trumps asset valuations were inflated to accommodate whatever number trump wanted his overall net worth to be. The goal was to use each of the assets and increase its value in order to get to the end result number. It was basically biking in numbers to each of the Asset Classes in order to win attain the number that mr. Trump wanted. To obtain the number that mr. Trump wanted. Thats not exactly how its post work. See, the Attorney General and her team are relying on facts and evidence, and Witness Testimony to make their case. As its supposed to be in the court of law. But Donald Trumps audience today wasnt the judge, it seems to be his mcvays. And this bizarre political world were living there, he thinks he can capitalize on his appearance in the courtroom. He might be able in the republican primary. Remember, the defendant we saw today all hunched, over the skull on his face, hunched, over hes also the front runner for the republican nomination. And that aggressive lie filled, the aggressive all across the country for years, thats what we hear from him each time when he left the courtroom today. Even as the dust has settled, he and his campaign burrow ready campaigning also his lawyers. They argued this was victimless. No one was hurt here. The banks even made money. No big deal, nothing to see here. According to reporting from inside the courthouse, trump literally picked up one his lawyer lori how jada defended defense about the same falsehoods about his wealth that the trump the judge had already rejected. She argued that dirrell is willing to be sold at as much as A Billion Dollars each lets not forget, some of the other guys are pretty easy to disprove. Like lets say the fact that trump claimed his apartment in trump tower was three times the size it actually was. A discrepancy that the judge said, quote, can only be considered fraud. I mean, obviously, all it takes is a tape measure to figure that one out. All of this is a reminder that trump has already lost in the court of law. And he knows it. So instead of putting up a real Legal Defense today, hes using the trial as a spectacle to push his campaign message. Its all the reminder of why the rich and powerful should be above the law. As a new York Attorney general we Letitia James said today donna champ of the defendants have committed persistent and repeated fraud. Last week, we proved that in our motion for summary judgment. Today, we will prove our other claims. My message is simple, no matter how powerful you are, no matter how much money you think you may have, no one is above the law. No one is above the law. Joining me now is tires vance, hes the former Manhattan District Attorney. Spent a lot of time investigating the Trump Organization and brought charges against the company and its cfo. Also with us is prepower, the former u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york. I cannot imagine two better people to talk about what happened today. Cyrus, i want to start with you, watching the trial today, and hearing the reporting of it, what did you make of the legal arguments that were made by trumps team . First, let me say, its a pleasure to be on the show with Preet Bharara, my colleague and u. S. Attorney when i was in manhattan and its great to have him here, its about respect a great deal. With respect to today, i think the lawyers are just essentially beating their heads against the wall and hoping that the message somehow resonates either with the Court Of Appeals which i think is where they are looking for rescue, if anywhere. And the court of Public Opinion to trumps own supporters. But i think that in terms of moving their legal case forward or making any headway with the judge, i think it was it fell on deaf ears. So we preet, i know youve said before that the next step might be the Court Of Appeals as your friend here just referred to. This is about how much money while trump will have to pay. How do you think that the judge in the room wouldve heard those arguments today . Let me also say, its an honor to be on your show, jen, and also with my friend and colleague, cyrus vance jr. , who i respect a great deal as well. I think you headed right in the opening. That the lawyers here are relitigating things that have already been decided in what lawyers call a partial summary we judgment motion. Theyre hitting the ball in a serious. Way not only because the judges found that there is liability with respect to one of the counts in the civil complaint, but also in doing so, it made the Fountain Dings and certain statements in the opinion that make clear what the judge thinks of the credibility not only of Donald Trumps lawyers. Repeatedly says that they were filings made and representations made to insurance companies, that the fabrications, this is not an such the valuations of these assets by donald trump and his team, this is a fantasy world, not the real world. So whatever arguments couldve been made are gonna be made but the judge to a judge whos already looking at the parties. Donald trump himself and his lawyers through lens of lack of credibility. I think its an Uphill Battle for them. In some sense, jen, its almost the same argument that the president is trying to make in defense of his condo cases which is, believe me what i was thinking. I thought this was all okay. And with regard, as you mentioned, to his 10,000 foot apartments in manhattan as opposed to the 30,000 foot that he claimed or his valuation of maralago at however many hundreds of millions of dollars because it could be some divided, while not acknowledging that affect those restricted died when he got in there, that he couldnt you could do it with a tape measure. It is truly, its a fantasy world. And i would say that i think that with all the litigation thats going on, the walls are closing in around him and however much bluster that he presents in the courtroom, i think he has to be concerned that his Maneuvering Room is really running out. The Attorney General and her team are obviously treating this like an actual case, right . Even if trumps team was not. And donald bender, trumps former accountant, testified today. Hes someone that youve called before. Trump looked pretty uncomfortable during that moment. Why do you think it would be so upsetting . What does he have that would be upsetting to trump . I wasnt in court today but obviously mr. Bender was an accountant who worked for the Trump Organization. I think testified, if im correct, correct me if im wrong, that he felt like he was misled. And misled significantly. So that he will be crossexamined, hes trying to cover his own mistakes. Itll be all these arguments. But those i dont think well have any way with the judge. As preet said, were. Done maybe hes making a record for the Court Of Appeals. But when you are an accountant or some professional that you worked with for decades and who has an inside knowledge of finances and how business works, when that person basically says i was like to, thats relevant and important. They literally have the receipts. And then some, a lot of paper. But one of the things, preet, that was striking to me today was trumps behavior. Im sure it was striking to all of. As he stood outside the courtroom repeatedly attacking the judge, with aggressive language. He said that he should be disbarred, even charged criminally, it was crazy. I dont ask you for a little set for everybody here, if he was any other defendant, what would happen . He might be sanctioned. This is going on in some of the other cases that are of a criminal nature where theres a request for limiting gag order in one particular matter. At a minimum, hell get admonished. That may still happen. Here is very unusual thing and is on Trial Strategy to sit there, slumped in the courtroom, as you described him, with a sort of dejected look on his face, and with great fanfare go out to the cameras and attacked the very judge whose presiding over your case. Which to me because trump is not stupid. Obviously a lot of people think he, is hes not. Thats to me a concession that theyve already lost with this judge. And hes making record thats already said a couple of times in the Court Of Appeals, but also the court of Public Opinion. And a subset of the court of Public Opinion, the people who are already decided you think you have a shot at being treated fairly or getting the result that you want in the outcome that you want, you dont go out there and talk about the jailing of the judge thats making that decision. And theres a jury. Here he and his lawyers did not ask perjury. It might be different if he did that. But its reprehensible behavior on his part. I dont think it will amount to much, certainly not in the courtroom. This is just starting this trial, i should be clear today. Today was the very first. Day and said that trump would be called to testify closer to the end, which makes sense. Do you think i will start with you cy, if you were to testify manual sitting across from, you what would you say . Hes already taking the fifth in the privilege and connection to the early depositions in the case. So i think that gives you an indication of what he has fought up to now. I think hes also perfectly capable of saying that hes gonna do one thing and then deciding hes not. Weve seen that a few times. And blaming the prosecutor in the judge, as being biased, forcing him again to take the fifth amendment. I would like to hear what preet says. But this part of him that im sure wants to see if he can tell his story and bluster his way through. But i think theres another part, because hes a smart man, that realizes that hes not the wizard of oz. He cant Value Property at 500 times its value and have that be objectively reasonable. In terms of the judges analysis. So it might not surprise you if he says, im, here im going to testify, when he takes the fifth at the end of the trial when its over. Preet, you heard your friend cy vance here, what do you . Think he said that hes eager to testify. What do you think is gonna happen . Hes gonna testify, hes never gonna testify. He says he, as he does this multiple times during the mueller investigation. Hes done it in other matters another unfolding investigations as well. Hes afraid of testifying, he knows what will happen in the court of law. He can filibuster, theres not a bunch of Cameras Microphones where hes dominant or his rally in front of a bunch of supporters. Of course, its different. The other consequence, by the, way to other quick things one, his problem is not that he exaggerates little. Right . The problem is that he lies and exaggerates by a lot. Even the judge in this case, in the Judgment Opinion says look, theres some concession that valuation of properties and assets is not necessarily a science. And you can be off, by 20 , 30 . But not, as i said, 500 times 500 . It does it all the time. He doesnt another parts of his. Life the other consequences, the, way for him not testifying. I dont think he will testify. Is that i predict and expect that when the judge rules an address to trump, one of the bases on which he will do it is say, in a civil, person with a criminal case, he can draw an adverse inference against the party, i get the defended that donald trump in his case because of his refusal to testify based on the fifth amendment. It gives the judge an added ability and appropriateness to fine against donald trump if he doesnt testify. In that, since dawn jumpers dumped if he does, dammed if he doesnt. Cyrus vance jr. , Preet Bharara, so where you. Our any more questions. We have to sneak in a quick break, but ive many questions. We will be right back. An intense Burning Sensation or an unbearable itch. This painful, blistering rash can disrupt your life for weeks. It could make your workday feel impossible. The virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. If youre 50 years or older, ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles. They slept on me for 15 years. The things i saw, the things i collected. I gained 30 pounds in dust, pollen, dander. They had two kids, two cats, and a ferret. All that time, they could have protected me, and themselves, with the number one selling allerease mattress protector. It wouldve been soft, comfortable, and blocked 99. 9 of dust, dirt, and allergens. Allerease, protect your mattress for a clean, healthy nights sleep. Zipping Zipper ooh, queen likes. The behavior that led to donald trump in a manhattan courthouse todays anywhere but. New for us several days its been an open secret that trump inflates the value of his assets. Its kind of a swindler. He lies about his personal and professional. Well as i was watching this unfold today, i kept coming back to questions, first, what took so long to get here . Second, why isnt this a criminal case . For i will bring back my friends who are still here, former Manhattan District Attorney cyrus vance and former u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york, Preet Bharara. Obviously, you both have been embedded in this unlike most people. I know, cy, that youve said your successor made a choice. He chose to pursue Stormy Daniels case. Instead of this case. But its not a binary choice i mean, every office can do multiple cases at one time, right . True. And when you are leaving, you had spoken to this, before you had gone pretty far and get the rain but was needed for a criminal case to make the case. True. So are you disappointed that thats not been pursued . Well, i when you leave an office that youre elected to, you its no longer your office. And you have to, i think, acknowledge that theres and respect the fact that someones come in and may not make the same decisions you made. I disagreed with this decision to not support furthering of the evaluation and Economic Crimes investigation and that was just playing out in court today. And perhaps its not over. Perhaps this court, perhaps this trial, will reveal through testimony leads that give my Successor Confidence that whatever concerns he had about whether the case could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt are now over. But i think time has sort of overcome the moment of the Valuation Case that such as it was when i was in the District Attorneys office. Because its now been superseded by two or three federal criminal cases and another case in georgia. All of which are very serious which have the potential of actual significant jail time for the former president. So i dont know what the appetite of my successors two way back into this area. But if you are still there, he wouldve brought the case, it sounds like. Lets just put it this way, i thought that what Justice James has laid out for us and what the judges concluded about what shes laid, out it concludes that the Valuation Case is a strong case. Its not you know, all criminal cases i think our complex. This is complex, and its difficult. But thats nothing new. We charged harvey weinstein. Tried, him that was a terribly difficult case. Preet has done, that in any number of cases. You make a decision and you its your job to make the decision. Is the jurys job to decide what they think of your decision, and what whether you made your burden of proof. Now preet, youre a bit of a very informed observe all this because of course your successor, the Southern District of new york, also didnt pursue a criminal case here. Do you think, knowing what you know, now theyre shouldve been a criminal case pursued . I dont if theres a criminal case the defense could about that the u. S. Attorneys office couldve brought to respect to these things. This matter that cyrus just brought up is critical in new york law, its a very broad statute that makes it a bad thing for which he could be held liable and penalized for false Business Records and doing business under false pretenses and making assertive misrepresentations. There was a decision, not to prosecute donald trump win even though Michael Cohen bus prosecuted in regards to the hush money payments. And i will owe echo with my friend cyrus vance, whether you leave office, if youre leaving voluntary or attracted by the president of United States as i was, you leave office. Its difficult to judge someones decision not to proceed with the case. When you do proceed with the case, ive said this many times, you can judge the evidence, you can go to the courtroom, you can see what the arguments, are you can see what the counter arguments are, and when a position to evaluate. When a decision is made to declined prosecution, walk away from the prosecution, its much harder to judge that because you havent you dont get grand jury minutes, you dont know what the internal arguments, where you dont wear the presentations made by the Defense Council might have been, if those things happened. So i respect the judgments of both prosecutors that we discussed and alluded to in the state system, and the federal system because theyre both smart, i think, thoughtful, deliberately people with integrity. Maybe one day we will find out what some of the reasons i, are but thats not how our system works. Now technically, if they wanted, two and you dont know what your sex or will, do he could reopen a criminal case within a timeline here. Assuming that the evidence still fell within the statutes of limitations, he could. I wouldnt hold my breath on that. And i think hes been pretty definitive about that, as i was definitive about i think montgomerys had done. And one i wish the best for the manhattan d. A. s office, hes made his choice, he was first up and he took a lot of heat for that and i think is that hes indicted has its own challenges but i i think he is convinced that thats the route that he was most comfortable going. Preet, as well trying to navigate, i could not wish to have a lot agree more, i would go to the law classes if you were to teach them as we look at the law cases and people trying to navigate, them which one do you think is the strongest case right . Now which one poses the biggest threat to trump . That question circles around me all the time. It depends on what you mean. I guess the most important case in terms of what it means in terms of the conduct and the severity of the conduct is the January 6th Case, brought in d. C. I think probably the most readily prove case that has the fewest challenges in terms of how much evidence they could bring to bear and it streamlines the maralago documents, the classified documents, mishandling case. Thats not gonna happen for a while. It looks like the order of operations is that the washington January 6th Case will happen first. The travel happened, first and then the other. When you can make an argument that you bring the easier, quicker, or pushed to bring the easier, quicker, more streamlined case first and sort of get that conviction under your belt and that gives you some sort of momentum or confidence going forward. Although there are different teams working on those matters. Thats the one i think the maralago documents case is the strongest and easiest to prove. I completely agree with preet in terms of the severity of the cases and the clarity of the evidence. I think in the case of georgia is a case with a lot of merits to the making sure that conduct is accounted for if you believe the evidence. But its a complicated case with 19 defendants and the District Attorney made a conscious decision to indict a complicated case with lots of defendants and she now although she might have for cnet, she now has cases going to trial very quickly against defendants that she probably would have preferred not to try first because you created an entire record when you try that first case which then can be used, picked apart, as evidence in a subsequent trial. A lot of strategy involved. Cyrus vance, so Preet Bharara, actual friends tonight. I couldnt think of two better people to pick this down. Thank you for joining me tonight. Coming, up braking is on capitol hill, as matt gaetz officially files his motion to oust Kevin Mccarthy. Will republicans try to save . Am i will speak to congressman dan goldman. I will speak to him after the. 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Heres gates on the house for tonight. Declaring the office of speaker of the house of representatives to be vacant, resolved that the office of speaker of the house of representatives is hereby declared to be vacant. There is a bit of a machismo back and forth. But mccarthy had this simple three word response, bring it on. He said that before. Joining me now is democratic congressman dan goldman from new york. You are probably blissfully not in that caucus. But i do have to ask, you your colleague, congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio critics said that she would vote to get that mccarthy fail. Do you agree with that . I havent been provided any reason to save kevin kathy. Look at what has happened over the last nine months he hasnt shown any interest or willingness to engage in any bipartisan conversations. He reached a deal but President Biden on the fiscal responsibility act and then he went back against his own deal. And then hes opened up a completely bogus, sham, base this Impeachment Inquiry against joe biden and russ opposed to celebrate because he did the right thing one time this weekend and kept the government open . Hes done nothing that would warrant me, not voting for a 16th time for the person who should be the speaker of the house, hakeem jeffries. It sounds like you would vote for a motion to vacate, if im just reading between the lines. Unless something changes. And i think Kevin Mccarthy has to figure out if he wants to partner with democrats or not. But hes been a disastrous speaker for the past nine months. In addition to your views and many of your colleagues views, he saw some support clearly within his caucus. He might need some democrats to save his speakership. Do you think hell try to gather some support from democrats . My suspicion is he absolutely will need democrats. And the real open question right now is what does he do. Because if you play this out, it gets a little bit more complicated. If you realize on democrats because he makes a deal with democrats in some way, then that may resolve his speakership right now. But hes going to have to legislate for another year. Every single time a rule comes up, hes gonna need democrats to pass a rule. So he will then have to enter into some form of coalition government. Its a bit of a challenge for Kevin Mccarthy. A of sorts. I want to ask about the new york trial that took place because this took place in your district. For kind of the connector between all the chaos thats happening out there. Do you see a connection between Donald Trumps behavior in the behavior you see from someone like matt gaetz . Donald trump is a Mob Boss Down in maralago directing his soldiers in the house of representatives what they should do. And that relates both to the shutdown, and to the 90 people who voted against the clean resolution, the continuing resolution, and it leads to the impeachment, with donald trump has a very actively encouraged because he wants retribution for his own impeachment and he wants to heard his opponents, President Biden. This is, remember, the exact investigations that trump tried to extort and careers president zelenskyy to do in ukraine in 2019. President zelenskyy had a backbone and stood up to donald trump. Kevin mccarthy in the House Republicans do not. So we are where we are right now because this is what donald trump. Once you are obviously politically savvy guy but you have seriously gulp credentials as. Well as were watching but was happening in the courtroom today, im not a lawyer, but it seems like more of a political argument from steam than a legal argument. What do you make of that . There thats exactly what i. Thought hit trumps outside, even his making arguments about Election Interference of prosecutions, and which, hunts his lawyers making that insight. Those arguments would fail with a jury of 12 peers. But he doesnt even have a jury. Its just a judge. A judge could not care less about any of those arguments. And this is where the disconnect in Donald Trumps world is going to collide with reality because he operates in a fiction filled world based on lies and brainwashing and colts. But when he gets in the courtroom, there are different rules that apply and hes not in charge and hes going to have a serious comeuppance. A bit of a different set of rules in the legal system scenes like this trial is taking place in this district, as i mentioned, and trump really issued some threats today against the judge, reiterated a lot of the angry, scary language which we cant become numb to. Do you have any concern about what that is going to mean in your district, anything youve heard today that makes you concerned about that . Weve not heard any specific threats today, but this is an ongoing, serious problem. Donald trump is ratcheting up his rhetoric, its a call and response, and we saw what happened on january 6th. He knows exactly what hes doing. And, even if he claims he doesnt, he has to know because of what happened on january 6th. So when he starts insulting Attorney General james or the judge or District Attorney fani willis or special counsel jack smith, he is fomenting violence. And i would call right now on my republican colleagues to denounce this rhetoric. I dont care whether you support donald trump where you dont support donald trump, we cannot have this violent, threatening rhetoric coming from the front runner to be president , former president , that has such an impact on so many people. And it is time for House Republicans, especially those who support donald trump, they can do it privately, but they need to tell him to cool it. Its a very powerful note to end on, and i hope that people heed your warning. Congressman coleman, thanks for joining onset. Tonight of, next donald trump continues to use threatening language, we were just talking about, this and supporters continue to listen. I will offer some thoughts about that and unemotional warning from Attorney GeneralMerrick Garland. And coming, up republican Congressman Ken Buck would who i will ask him when he joins us live in just a few. Minutes well be back right after this. You deserve better than that. Im hungry, im in a hurry, i dont have time to make anything healthy. You could if you had a blendjet. Blendjet . Its the portable blender that makes the healthy choice the most convenient choice. I dont know. It seems like a hassle. Hahaha wrong. Just pour in some milk, add some frozen fruit, and bam youve got a nutritious and delicious smoothie. Mmm that is good. Youre welcome, sad office guy. Get yours today at blendjet. Com are we in in an ad . We sure are. Today we saw donald trump sitting in a new york courtroom for his first day of his massive civil trial that is decadeslong record of fraud in his business practices. He has become his pattern. The ex president lashed out at his opponents threatening both the prosecutor and the judge. This is a disgrace and youre gonna go after this Attorney General. This judge should be disbarred. This is a judge that should be out of office. This is a judge that some people say could be judge criminally for what hes doing. Hes interfering with the election. Some trump has done this over and over. Again threatening anyone who tries to hold them to account. Just last, week in the filing of a federal election jacks mitt directly addressed what he called trumps sustain campaign of prejudicial public statements regarding witnesses. The court the district, and prosecutors. Smith laid out the threats that trump has recently made to the judge overseeing the case, tanya chutkan, to prosecutors including a special counsel himself. To trumps own former Vice President , mike pence. A witness in the case. And even to former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, mark milley, who trump has said should be executed for treason. The thing, is before releasing the pact of his rhetoric. The New York Times reports that as a result of the increasing threats, top prosecutors on the four criminal cases against mr. Trump now require round the clock protection. Weve heard so much of this crazy and aggressive language its easy to almost become numb to it. When everything is always at a ten or 10,000, however you want to think about it, it could be hard to identify but we should actually armed about, and thats the point. Its a muddle of scary language and angry rounds from trump, day after day. But we should not just be watching to see if donald trump will continue Making Upgrades threats, he know he will. But we need to be watching for is how his supporters are reacting to his threats. How they are echoing them. And stressing the importance of following through on them. Just listen to how some Trump Supporters in iowa are reacting to his extreme rhetoric against and a political four star general, mark milley. I know trumps feelings about mark milley and i agree. He asked the chinese, or told the chinese, other tuna when we will invade. What . Why wasnt he before a firing squad with those within a month . Treason, treason, execute, imprisoned people all the treasons, actions ive seen now in this day in age are just thrown underneath the road. Treasonous treason, theres only one cure for treason. What is that . Being put to death. Youre an enemy of your country. Being put to death. Is that not trump himself calling picking up the phone calling Death Threats to judges and prosecutors, its people who are listening to him, follow what they believe are his directions. The focus right now is on how trump will be held accountable for the damage is already done. The threat of trumps not in the past. Its very much in the president. And we remain in a dangerous cycle with far too Many Republican leaders enabling. Him and supporters listening to him. It feels like only a matter of time until some of them act. Attorney general Merrick Garland just issued an emotional warning about this very real danger. People can argue with each other as much as they want and as vociferously as they want. But the one thing they may not do is use violence and threats of violence to alter the outcome. An important aspect of this is the American People themselves. The American People must [inaudible] each other. They must ensure that they treat each other with civility and kindness. Listen to opposing views, our u. S. Was subversively as they want, but refrain from violence and threats of violence. Thats the only way this democracy will survive. We are not writing the History Books of the damage that donald trump has done to our country and our democracy. Hes still at. It hell continue to make these threats. And his force will continue listen to him. But these are not their herding marching orders. A scare is that it may be, i will listen to the emotional warning america garland, and i hope that most americans from all parties will to. Coming, up republican Congressman Ken Buck is standing by with his reaction to matt gaetzs motion to kick speaker Kevin Mccarthy out of speakership. 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Now you can stay reliably connected through Power Outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery backup to keep you online. Only from xfinity. Back to the Breaking News home of the xfinity 10g network. Weve been covering, Congressman Matt Gaetz has officially filed a motion to oust speaker Kevin Mccarthy. Even gates has acknowledged that he might not have enough votes to get it. And youll never guess whos been in his ear . Weve spoken to mr. President trump about this . I have. What was his advice to you . I think and keep that between the two of us. Joining me now is republican Congressman Ken Buck of colorado. Well, i keep saying, this has been a bit of a wild couple of days in washington. Youve been at the center of a lot of it. So i wanna start with this news that we just learned in the last hour. Youve been very clear about your frustration with speaker mccarthy. If you have to vote right now, youre enough to vote very soon on a motion to vacate, how would you vote . I dont, unfortunately, because i want to hear what kevin has to. Say kevin promised a number of conservatives when he was running for speaker. 1. 7 Trillion Dollars. When he negotiated with President Biden about the debt ceiling deal, he promised President Biden a one point 66 Trillion Dollar deal. He promised example he criticize nancy pelosi for not holding a vote on an Impeachment Inquiry. And he promised he would hold a vote on an Impeachment Inquiry, and then he announced up and peach meant inquiry. He cannot be trusted. And i want to understand why he acts the way he does before i make a final decision on how to vote. What do you need to learn in the next 48 hours ago . The vote is going to be in two days. Is it a number of cuts hes willing to. Make is a and to the Impeachment Inquiry . I want to know which one of the promises hes going to fulfill. If hes gonna fulfill the 1. 7 Trillion Dollar promise, im interested in listening to. Mark if separate Appropriations Bills by september 30th, we did one up until the week before september 30th. And then we got another three on that week. So i want to know when his schedule is, and i want to know how hes gonna fulfill his promises. Youre a bit of a fiscal hop. If you dont buy meat calling you that, its insecure willing to give him a little bit more of a shot if he lays out a plan. I dont put words in about, but its not like what youre saying now he has 45 days or a little bit less at this point to get the rest of those 12 Spending Bills done. If he doesnt do that, are you gonna rethink your support for him . It seems like thats where youve been strongly thinking about. I support him through the 15 vote debacle at the beginning of the year. And its because of the promises that he made that we would handle each of these appropriations bill separately. So, yeah i wanted to the first cr, the concerning resolution. There will be. More and if we can get nine or ten down in the last 45, days or one or two weeks, thats a great position to be. I know youre not gonna give me names for alternatives, you said its not, you can book is not on the list, but have you discussed what any of your colleagues alternatives to Kevin Mccarthy . I think the number of alternatives. And once it put their head up while kevin is the speaker. No one wants to be the speaker the person who looks like they took him down. They will, rise if this mission vacate passes, youll start to see other names of people who come up. Obviously steve police has come on the. Line he has issues health issues, but has a lot of respect in the conference. It seems like regardless of how youre gonna, both it seems like the motion to vacate could pass. I do think it could pass. I think theyre probably 10 to 15 hard yeses on the motion to vacate. I think theres another five or six people who are looking to see whether its a close vote or not. Now, another one of your colleagues, matt gaetz, the reports now confirmed by nbc news the House Republican members are preparing a motion to expel gaetz out of the house if they find filed against him. Reports from us. Is that a discussion that youre aware of, or conversations about that . I think im not. I think thats an and one of the empty things that people bring up to distract from the issue, which is Kevin Mccarthy s credibility. I want to ask you about donald trump because he was manhattan courtroom to defer is fraud trial. You said that he would not support it convicted ville in the judge in this case has already found that he committed fraud, in just a matter of what hes gonna pay. Should that disqualify him from serving as president . I dont know that a fraud case a Civil Fraud Case by i was talking about a criminal case. I do think that people need to look at the behavior of donald trump and determine whether he is the best candidate for president. Also the need to look at the behavior of hunter biden to determine whether joe biden is the best candidate for president. But i think that overall the criminal trials are gonna be much more significant in people s minds than this simple fraud trial. Theres significant differences between the two. But i do want to ask before i let you go, just about the threats that weve heard from donald trump. Because the rhetoric and we know that its dangerous. The threats increasing. Your colleague, dan goldman, said that he wish more people would be outspoken about that. What do you say to that . I was a prosecutor for 25 years, jen, i take the threats seriously. You if youre innocent, you act like youre innocent. And if you want to be president of the United States again, you respect the rule of law, you respect the process, and you show people that we have a criminal Justice System that is fair in this country. Are you concerned about the rhetoric you hear from him outside the child. But the not just judges but elected officials, others around the country . I think its a mature. I think the president needs to do better when hes frustrated. Do what a lot of us. To go into a room by, yourself to yell for a little, bit and come out and be the person that really personifies what we want to know leader in this country. I wish more would speak out against him. Ken buck, you are out of the Stove Colorado where i have a lot of family. That does it for me, tonight is see us Back On Sunday At Noon and stay where you are because the Rachel Maddow show starts right now, hi, rachel. Hi, jen. Thank you very much my. Friend i appreciated. Things that those athome for joining, us its good to have you here. The year was 2015, he was nine years old. And interview im asked him if there were things that were still on his to do list. Things he wanted to get done in his lifetime that at the age of 90 you had not yet managed to finish. He said, the first one was middle east peace. He had already been given the Nobel Peace Prize in part for his work in pursuit of that goal. Middle east peace. But yes, thats still not done. Still work to do there. Thats one. And then this was the second s thing