Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240703

Thank you so much for letting us into your homes on this monday. We are grateful. The beat with katy faang in far ari melber. Always good to see you and thanks. Welcome to the beat. Im katie faang in for ari melber. Former President Donald Trump back in court facing a judge as his Civil Fraud Trial begins. This New York State Supreme Court trial is the first of many cases looming over trumps election bid, and the judge last week already found him liable for massive fraud. New York Attorney general Letitia James accusing trump of years of overinflating his net worth and misrepresenting his companys assets. Donald trump and the other defendants have committed persistent and repeated fraud. Last week we proved that in our motion for Summary Judgment. Today we will prove our other claims. My message is simple. No matter how powerful you are, no how much money you think you may have, no one is above the law. Trump satin side the courtroom for hours, flanked by his lawyers as prosecutors explained in detail the alleged acts of fraud saying trump, quote, overvalued his statements from 812 million to 2. 2 billion, that he knew that they were false and use said them to obtain benefits he was not entitled to. The Opening Statement featured never before seen Deposition Video including trumps own. To meet your obligation here of presenting information in accordance with gap, was Alan Weisselberg responsible for that . I would say yes. Throwing former Trump Organization cfo Alan Weisselberg under the bus. Now, remember, weisselberg has already been convicted of tax fraud and we learned through his newly released Deposition Video that he never took the Certified Public Accountant exam. If i said the phrase gap, g afrmths ap, are you familiar with that acronym . I am familiar with that, yes. Tell me what you know about gaaap. Generally accepted Accounting Principles. I dont know gaap and i never to be the cpa exam and i dont know the Com Bonences Of What Gaap is. Are there any components of what gaap is . Not really. No. Call me crazy, but it seems like basic Accounting Principles might be important knowledge for a cfo, and lets be clear, ignorance of it is not a defense. The prosecution also playing clips of trumps sons. Heres don junior laughing about those same Accounting Principles weisselberg said he knew nothing about. Do you have any familiarity with an acronym gaap, g afrmths ap . Generally accepted Accounting Principles, yes. How did you become familiar with that acronym . Probably in accounting 101 at wharton. Okay. What do they teach you about generally accepted Accounting Principles at wharton. Im not an accountant, but they are generally accepted. [ laughter ] Anything Else . Thats pretty much what i remember from accounting 101. So have you told me everything you know about gaap . Basically. Im sure i can come up with some creative stuff to kill time, but id be doing neither of us a favor in terms of educating ourselves. Eric trump also questioned, saying he doesnt even remember talking about the Financial Conditions. I dont remember a videoconference in 2021 talking about the statement of Financial Condition. Did i i mean, maybe you can show me something, but again, i dont think i ever signed a statement of Financial Condition. I dont ive done a lot to try and jog my memory, and i simply cant because i dont think ive ever had any involvement in the statement of the Financial Condition to the best of my knowledge. Even though trump reportedly appeared solemn in court, maybe even bored, yawning at times, he was visibly irate outside of the Courthouse Railing the case and targeting the judge with nasty accusations. This is a judge that should be out of office. This is a judge that some people say could be charged criminally for what hes doing. This is really now getting dirty between jack smith and between all of these doj people helping them along. This is a pure witch hunt for purposes of interfering with the elections. Now well have more on trumps defense later in the hour, but first, joining me now is neil katyal former actor solicitor general, mia wiley, former civil attorney and now ceo of the Leadership Conference on civil and human rights and lisa rubin, msnbc legal analyst who was inside the courtroom today. Lisa, ill start with you. Kind of set the table for us. What was the atmosphere like inside of the courtroom especially with donald trump being present . You know, katie, it was different from other proceedings ive been to where donald trump has been present and noticeably different from the florida arraignment that i attended when trump was indicted on the classified documents related charges. That proceeding was solemn. It was sober. It was silent. You could hear a pin drop before it started. This one, by comparison, even though it doesnt involve criminal charges, this might as well be trumps most important indictment as far as he is concerned because he was belligerent. He was crossing his arms and shaking his head, at times even physically prodding chris kise to get up and argue with the judge or with the Attorney General because this is that important to donald trump. This lies at the heart of his public image and his private image, as well, as americas most successful real estate tycoon, and it was clear that this was very important to him down to the moment where he exited the courtroom and paused to glare very dramatically at tish james, the new York Attorney general. You know, neal, the prosecution saying in their Opening Statement they will show that trumpsages of fraud provide the evidence needed to bar trump from bank loans and that each defendant continued to engage in illegal acts such as falsifying the records of the Trump Organization. So whats your take on the prosecutions Opening Statement, which by the way, was shorter than expected, judge engoron giving more time for both sides to use and in the end Attorney General wallace didnt take that time. Should he have . I dont think so. I thought Kevin Wallace did a really great job of just explaining how donald trump and his family and others basically reverse engineered the value of individual asset like trump tower and 40 Wall Street to arrive at the president s trying to get to a certain level of net worth, and i think the general point, katie, of what happened today is karma catching up on donald trump. Donald trump has evaded Legal Process for so long like a pro, but its basically catching up on him. I mean, ari is not here, so i can go outside of hiphop quote the great legal scholar taylor swift, karmas going to track you down step by step from town to town and thats what were seeing here in the very first, you know, formal trial beginning against donald trump. So, maya i want to get your take. Youve dealt with civil cases like this. This is a Civil Fraud Trial and because its not a criminal case, do you think it was okay for the prosecution to take this particular approach for Opening Statements and reiterating and reinforcing to Justice Engoron something that hes pretty much found in terms of liability in terms of trump and the other defendants . Yes. I think thats exactly right. I agree with neal. Look, this is a bench trial. Theres not a jury here. This is a judge that already issued a scathing opinion, and i mean, scathing. Thats the kind of opinion when youre a lawyer on the receiving end not just of losing your emotion in the case of donald trump attorneys are getting excoriated by the judge using words like preposterous preposterous and invoking Groundhog Day in terms of lawyers making arguments that he and the A Pell At Division have already dispatched. It was exactly the kind of thing that is legal name calling, just got to say that. So its no surprise to me that the prosecution walked in here and said this is a judge that understands this case, understands the the legal underpinnings of this case, understands what to listen for and doesnt need to be talked down to, doesnt need to have that be laid out. So well just make a plain, simple, stated and well bring the evidence to prove it and i think that was a wise move. Neal, i want to stay on the point that maya just made. This was an argument, although it was Opening Statement and it was not supposed to be an argument. Theres been a bench trial about elena habba, her failure to opt out for a jury rile and i look at the New York State Statute thats applicable here and after the Attorney General Letitia James said no jury trial which for the defense team for donald trump could have elected for a jury trial and so, neal, do you think donald trump is having this crashing reality moment where hes realizing that maybe the lawyers that he hired just really arent competent enough to do this type work for him . Its possible that its a competence issue. I always hesitate, you know, to say that, but certainly the accountant he hired as you were just saying a moment ago, katie doesnt even understand accounting 101 even before that. As a College Freshman i knew what gaap was and i did not even take accounting and thats a little frightening. When it comes to the waiver of a jury trial which is a significant issue for donald trump, i have no idea whether this was in intentional, purposeful decision by trumps legal team to waive his right to a jury trial or not because with trump and his team its hard to know where incompetence ends and where actual strategy begins. I think one thing is very clear is that the episode with this waived jury trial suggests to me that trumps attorneys should be focusing a little bit less on the grandstanding that theyre doing with the statements from the media and a little more, making sure that the legal nice tees are kept and that their client is protected. Lisa, trumps former fixer Michael Cohen told prosecutors a portion that was played today during Opening Statements, that he as in Michael Cohen and Alan Weisselberg, inflated assets to boost trumps worth. He wanted to be high or the forbes list, and he then said im actually not worth 6 billion. In fact, i think its now worth eight with everything thats going on. Alan and i were tasked with taking the assets and increasing each of those Asset Classes in order to accommodate that 8 billion number. Lisa, we know that theres independent documents that the ags office has corroborated not only Michael Cohens testimony and some of the stuff that weisselberg himself has admitted to doing. Was there visible reaction from donald trump when this particular portion was played and do you think it strengthens the case to have Michael Cohen testify to this . I cant tell you what Donald Trumps reaction was to Michael Cohen in part because i only saw him from the back, but i can tell you the lawyers reaction to having Michael Cohen involved was huge, and they focused heavily on Michael Cohen essentially accusing the Attorney Generals Office of constructing this entire case around Michael Cohen when actuality hes going to play a small part here to talk about the motives that donald trump had in Reverse Engineering those valuations to meet an overall end objective, but the objective will lie in emails and will lie in testimony and Text Messages and Even Communications where they tried to get a Tax Deduction and then lowered the value of the property correspondingly only to increase others. Thats really where the crux of the evidence is, and i do think Michael Cohen will be an important witness, but certainly not the central figure in this trial that trumps lawyers have made him out to be. Lisa rubin, were going to say goodbye, but ill say thank you for the Color Commentary from being inside the courtroom. Neal and maya, please stay with me. Coming up, we have a special guest on accountability for trump and equal justice under the law, plus an expert on trump finances that will break down why this trial is such a threat to his brand and to his financial bottom line. But first, our fact check on the Trump Defense claims today when were back in just 60 seconds. E. As i was writing, i found that i just wasnt as sharp and i new i needed to do something so i started taking prevagen. I realized that i was much more clear and i was remembering the details that i was supposed to. Prevagen keeps my brain working right. Prevagen. At stores everywhere without a prescription. When you smell the amazing scent of gain flings. Time stops. and you realize youre in love. Steve . With a laundry detergent. gain flings. Seriously good scent. sean i wish for the amazing new iphone 15 pro jason sean do you mean this one the one with titanium . Switch to verizon, you can trade in any iphone, and get the new iphone 15 pro on them. vo trade in any iphone in any condition for a new iphone 15 pro on us. Only on verizon. So were back with more on the trump civil fraud case. We just heard the prosecutions Opening Statements and the arguments supporting that. We are now looking at trumps defense. In court trumps attorneys chris kise and leena haba gave Opening Statements and kise insisting that, quote, the Attorney General has no case and then claiming, in essence, that its all just a big misunderstanding saying, quote, the ags office is trying to convince everyone that theres only one way to find a value, and adding that there are different ways to value a given property. Trumps lawyers adding the Loan Transactions were successful and profitable. Quote, the banks made well over 100 million. There was also another attorney representing the trump family, eric trump and don jr. And the trump family attorney used his time to attack a key witness for the prosecution, Michael Cohen. Saying, quote, when you talk about credibility you will have a guy who lied to everyone, a convicted felon. And despite the wild fluctuations in trumps valuation, sometimes as much as ten times the appraised value, leena habba said, quote, was there no intent to defraud. Period. The end. But of course, the judge has already decided that trump and the other defendants committed fraught and thats now settled as a matter of law. So this trial is about how much money will trump pay in damages, potentially upwards of a quarter of A Billion Dollars and whether he and the Family Members that are a part of this case will effectively be banned from doing business in his home state of new york. Back with me is neal katyal and maya wiley. I want to start with you. Donald trumps defense saying this is a, quote, Victimless Crime and that the lenders profited from these Financial Transactions and how do you think Justice Engoron will address that particular argument . Well, in a sense he has already addressed it in his opinion that he issued last week which was to say, look, you know, the way the law in new york works this is about deception. This is about the capacity or the tendency to create an environment in a climate of fraud. This isnt about whether or not the harm that the Attorney General is focusing on is the harm that this kind of environment clite crtes, and yes, you know, now that with these rng charges essentially the counts, i should say, there is a question of intent and the defense that donald trump had the intent to do and how materiel it was, and those are facts that the judge said are going to be at issue in this trial and its not that they have to show that there was an actual loss of money and that is one of the things that frustrated the judge and had the judge excoriating these lawyers and in some instances being quite snashgy and sarcastic because hes been frustrated with them in terms of the statements theyve made and you can hear that in this trial when they were objects at points. The judge was saying thats just not true. He wasnt just saying overruled. He said no, thats not a fact. Thats the issue here is what are the facts and frankly, theres a lot of evidence here for the prosecution. We have yet to hear strong evidence from the defense, but we sure have heard a lot of posturing. Neal, i want to go down the road a little bit on this from an appellate standpoint. You and i having dealt with motions from Summary Judgments and thats what we keep on reffing to from the 35page order that was issued by Justice Engoron last week. Normally fraud cases, go, go to the jury or goes to the judge, but it only turns onnen tent. He was raised previously in the papers by defense and citing to law in new york saying you dont have to prove intent for violations of the particular count that he is granted partial Summary Judgment on. Considering what we know in the limited sense, neal, what is your opinion on the success of a potential appeal of this particular order that Justice Engoron entered last week . Slim to none, katie. The justice by new york law is standard law that you tonight have to show intent to defraud and trumps lawyers put on really not much of a legal case in their papers before the justice that led to this what we call Summary Judgment motion which means taking this issue away from the trial because its so clear in one side in favor of tish james and in favor of inflating of the assets and so that left trumps attorneys today with really only one kind of strong argument outside of the a stacks on Michael Cohen and the like and that was to say well, real estate valuations fluctuate all of the time as trumps lawyer said. Everyone has a different opinion as to valuation. Thats the heart of the defense. They have two Serious Problems making that defense here. There are real estate valuations like i want to buy a condo. I put it down for 100,000 offer and it sells for 105,000 or i say my house has a Square Footage of 2,000 square feet and its 2100, you know, those things happen. Minor variations. This is nowhere like that. This is a scope of difference of magnitude thats unimaginable. Trumps penthouse where he lived, he claimed it was 33,000 square feet when it was 10,000 square feet. It was his own apartment. He got it wrong by massive, massive numbers. Thats one problem. The other is the valuation is always in one direction. The errors that tish james has found. It would be one thing if the valuation difference is sometimes hurt him and other times helped him, but they always helped him every time. So you know, given those two thing i think its a very rocky road for the defense which is why theyre not really putting on a legal defense. Theyre putting on a political defense. Im going to Springboard Off of the brilliant neal katyal and say well be holding our breath to see donald trump go, its me. Hi. Im the problem. Its me. Maya wiy, and neal katyal. Youant to see and hear more of neals brilliant musings please check out msnbc. Com openarguments. Plus in a new court filing jack smith cites trumps attacks on potential witnesses and says he may have broken the law again. Also tonight, a special guest on why losing trump tower and other properties would be personal and painful. All of that, plus accountability. A big word. The expresident in court as a defendant on video. Ideo unresolved Depression Symptoms were in my way. I needed more from my antidepressant. Vraylar helped give it a lift. Adding vraylar to an antidepressant. Is clinically proven to help relieve overall Depression Symptoms. Better than an antidepressant alone. And in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. Report unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. Antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. Report fever, stiff muscles, or confusion, as these may be lifethreatening, or uncontrolled Muscle Movements, which may be permanent. 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Its fre. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. My message is simple. No matter how powerful you are, no matter how much money you think you may have, no one is above the law. New York Attorney general Letitia James today moments before the world Saw Donald Trump in court on video. A historic moment witnessing donald trump being treated like any defendant. Outside court, trump was full of blufter and vitriol, Angrily Lashing out wh james with vile, unfounded accusations. Thats for the court of opinion. Now you can see the con troost as he faced accountability, though, inside a court of law. Trump, quiet, compliant, forced to listen, forced to behave. The New York Times Reporting Trump is trying to capitalize on the new york fraught suit by turning into a rallying cry for supporters, but the new York Attorney general argues its about showing the powerful are accountable for their actions, a rebuke to the claims some powerful leaders have made that they are above the law. When the president does it that means that it is not illegal. Then i have an article 2 where i have the right to do whatever i want as president. Joining me now is kattie kay, msnbc contributor. I want to ask you, what do you take of the contrast. Between trump on the outside of the courtroom full of bluster, full of hatred and typical, big, Bombastic Self and trump inside the court, small, sitting at counsels table forced to be quiet, trying to look demure . Yeah. I mean, you have it right from when trump first arrived in court the fact that he came with jason miller, his Campaign Adviser told you something about how his campaign was treating it and this is part of the political process. So far every suit seems to have worked to his advantage at least in the primary polling and seems to have been a shot to the head of his competitors and they seem to want to use this to their advantage, as well, so every time he came out of court he was making statements like this is all trying to get me out of the Campaign Trail even though he hasnt done a ton of campaigning and i have to sit in court and this is all political, a scam and a shame. That is what you heard outside and it was blufter and some of the anger there, but then inside the courtroom it was just riveting those moments we got to see him because there was trump quiet at the table looking like any other defendant in an American Court of law. It really was. This is what happens to defendants in america in courts of law whether they are donald trump or whether they are, you know, somebody who runs a Small Business somewhere. It didnt make any difference flanked by his lawyers like something out of a Courtroom Drama and what made it more extraordinary for me was the shot that we could see him over his right shoulder just a few feet away you could see Letitia James, the attorney and she spuite lot of time in the video that i can see staring at donald trump from behind. She was boring into the back of his head having brought this suit against him. The whole day it was extraordinary in american history, but also extraordinary television and psychological drama. I mentioned the New York Times reporting that trump is trying to capitalize on the New York Times case. He wants to motivate supporters so he wants to grift for more money. It goes to what donald trump retreats to. I am some huge real estate mogul. I am some huge billionaire. Im made of so much money and im an american walking dream success story, but this exposes fraud to a very deep level and if Justice Engorons order sustains from last week, hes going to be stripped of all of this. So do you think that this is going to create kind of like a hole in that facade of donald trump with his supporters that this is something that they can support and they can get behind . Its such a great question, katie. He seemed more angry, certainly today watching him even when he came out and spoke to the cameras than he did down in miami when he was arraigned in that lawsuit around the maralago documents case where he left the courtroom and kind of went to the cuban cafe and didnt buy food for everybody there and said he would buy food for everybody in the cafe and almost seemed to be kind of celebrating. I didnt see any sign of celebration here. Clearly, they are trying to say this is political and its being brought against him in order to keep him off the Campaign Trail and this is a judge and an Attorney General that has always had it in for trump and just from his demeanor, this wasnt the kind of celebratory aspect that he had before. Lets see trim Trump Supporters any his hole numbers dont rise and we following this minute detail and whether anybody is following as closely as we are and whether its unfair if youre a trump supporter, lets see how the polls respond to this one and how fundraising responds to this one, as well. Im calling this one the sleeper hit of 2023. This one kind of took us by surprise, right . This one of the ones that we knew was coming in the first of many trials for him and the ruling from Justice Engoron last week if it shell shocked us you can imagine what happened in the trump house. Kattie kay, thank you. Blistering new filing of. Being smith accusing donald trump of intimidating witnesses and potentially breaking the law yet again and why the new york fraud case is threatening trump on a financial and personal level. P on a financial and personal level. [car door slam] [camera shutter sfx] introducing neds plaque psoriasis. [camera shutter sfx] he thinks his flaky, red patches are all people see. Otezla is the 1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. [ned . ] it can help you get clearer skin and reduce itching and flaking. With no routine blood tests required. Doctors have been prescribing it for nearly a decade. Otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis. Dont use otezla if youre allergic to it. Serious allergic reactions can happen. Otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. Some people taking otezla had depression, suicidal thoughts, or weight loss. Upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. [crowd gasp] with clearer skin, movie night is a groovy night. 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When your name is on the building you care about every detail whether its the pattern on the sheets or the mattress in the room or the way a certain hole lays out on the golf course. It matters at the end of the day and that asset carries your name. Donald trumps voluntary appearance in court today, a sign of just how threatened he is by this civil trial. Hes now desperately fighting to keep the Business Empire thats been at the center of his identity for decades. The most iks connick property at risk, trump tower which was home to the infamous boardroom from the apprentice and was the site of the notorious Golden Escalator Ride to start his president ial campaign. Trump tower helped launch his National Profile more than 40 years ago. The new Trump Building called the trump tower going up on fifth avenue. We purchased a site with an Old Department store on next to tiffany and we had to really take the building down. I see the inner cities as being probably in terms of a real estate or in the real estate sense probably the most viable investment. Im not looking to make tremendous aames of money and im looking to enjoy my life and if that happens to go with it, thats fabulous. Trump later going on oprah to brag about it. Think ive done a good job in new york and ive done a charitable job in a sense and trump tower has become such a success and as you and i were discussing its become a number one attraction in new york, trump tower, and i think people recognize it. New york people are really proud of it. For the trump family, business was personal. So they blurred the lines like with another property thats at risk, seven springs. This is a place thats really special to myself, very special to my brother, my father and ive spent so much of my life here and its a special place for me and one that ill always remember and one that ill always be very close to. In fact, the trumps have so inextricably intertwined their personal and business lives that even some of their homes are technically owned by the llcs that Justice Engoron stripped of their Good Standing business certificates. This is sort of like the start of the bolshevik revolution. We dont like you, so were going to confiscate property. Were going to do these things. My cabin in upstate new york because its owned in an llc, that is a corporation and therefore because im a part of it somehow that has to be disbanded and so then what or who actually owns my cabin at this point . Not him. Okay, so now the trumps have been disclosed on the ags witness list. Joining me now is david k. Johnson, the author of two books on trump and an expert on the Trump Organization finances. David, it is so good to see you. This particular order that we are talking with Justice Engoron and the trial that will go on for a number of weeks, explain to the viewers how this particular Trial Strikes at the heart of not only trumps ban and the personal vision of himself. Bubble is his money and thats the single most important thing to understand and its the sum and substance of who he is. He was raised by a monster of a father who was involved with the two biggest Mafia Families in new york and up to his eyeballs and he taught donald was that getting the money is all that mattered and win is all that matters and so to donald, anything that would take away his appearance of being very wealthy, emphasize that word, appearance, is a threat to his very existence. Thats the core of the problem donald is facing here. This is more threatening to donalds mind than the prospect of going to prison which he can put off as oh, thats not going to happen. He sees this happening as part of the reason hes sitting there in the courtroom because he doesnt have to be there at this stage. You know, david, weve seen some video of Michael Cohen, the fixer for donald trump, being one of the key witnesses for the new York Attorney generals office, but the prosecutors in this case will call witnesses from firms Like Deutsche Bank and mazares that have done business with the trump family for decades so what will they know about his dealings . Its not like theyre going to come and cover for him and theyve had their own exposure themselves and they do know where the proverbial financial skeletons are buried, dont they in. Well, they do, and theyre also likely going to try to look out for their own interests to try to minimize things. The characteristic of donald is hes never done anything wrong. Everybody else is to blame and that will be shown by his lawyers. They were trying to show you did this bad thing and our client, mr. Trump was an absolute saint here in what he did or he was only doing normal business practice, but donald has always inflated things. He says trump tower is 68 stories high. Its only 58 stories high. He told me one day on i asked hum how much he was worth he told me 3 billion and what did he do . He told another reporter he was worth 5 billion. He just makes this stuff up and as judge engoron pointed out in his decision finding the donald is in fact a persistent fraudster so this trial is primarily about damages, in the real world you cant just say when youre seeking loans and insurance and dealing with tax authorities things that are completely unrelated to reality. And david, i read you had a really great example of going to the racetrack, and i want you to use that now to talk about discouragement because i want cue viewers to understand, the defense is claiming for donald trump that no one was hurt. Its a Victimless Crime and the banks made all of this money off of it and how can you actually say that theres any type of damages in this case, but explain very quickly that the Racetrack Example that you gave, it hits at the core of the discouragement which is what the new York Attorney general is looking for in this case. Imagine you worked for an employer who closes friday night and opens up on monday. At the end of the day on friday he takes 100 out of the hotel and go to the casinos and you win 1,000. You put the 100 back before the business opens up again. Well, youve committed a crime of thievery, but secondarily, the money you won at the casino is illgot gains. The laws are clear. You are not entitled to any gains you got through a criminal act, and since Donald Trumps behavior has been shown to be fraud and decided as a matter by this judge, then all of the profits that he made that you can tie to this fraud must be discouraged and ultimately, we will see the Trump Organization and its properties turned over to a receiver. Theyll be sold, creditors and the state and whatever fines the state gets will be paid first and the last person to be paid if theres anything left will be donald trump. I dont know. Hes filed six times for bankruptcy. His companies did, not him, but Business Filings business bankruptcies, but you know, theres always time for a first. A personal chapter 13 for donald trump. David k. Johnston, always good to see you and thanks for join us and explaining the very complex things in a way we understand. Thank you, katie. Next well turn to one of the criminal cases against donald trump because theres a number of them and why jack smith says hes already trying to intimidate witnesses e thats donald trump. Ntimidate witnesses donald trump n have a mustache. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. My Mental Health was much better. But i struggled with uncontrollable movements called td, tardive dyskinesia. Td can be caused by some Mental Health meds. And its unlikely to improve without treatment. I felt like my movements were in the spotlight. 1prescribed ingrezza is the only td treatment for adults thats always one pill, once daily. Ingrezza 80 mg is proven to reduce td movements in 7 out of 10 people. People taking ingrezza can stay on most Mental Health meds. Ingrezza can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in patients with huntingtons disease. 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Special counsel jack smith is accusing donald trump of intimidating witnesses and others. Its part of jack smiths push for a gag order in the d. C. Election interference case. Smiths Friday Night Filing cites trumps attacks on now retired military general mark milley. Trump falsely claimed milley committed, quote, treason, suggesting that in a different time, quote, the punishment would have been death. Smith also highlighting trumps menacing public statements about his former vp, mike pence, and citing the comments trump made on Meet The Press about bill barr. Guys like bill barr, who was a stiff, but he wasnt there at the time, but he didnt do his job. Because he was afraid. You know what he was afraid of . Of being impeached. Milley, pence, and barr are all possible government witnesses at this trial. And then theres trumps recent visit to a gun store. Afterwards, trumps spokesman announcing trump bought a gun before then walking it back, and prosecutors saying in this filing, quote, the defendant either purchased a gun in violation of the law and his conditions of release, or seeks to benefit from his supporters mistaken belief he did so. Joining me is joyce vance, former Yoourns Attorney in alabama. Joyce, my front, lets talk about this upcoming hearing on october 16th. Is the judge required to actually do a hearing . Or could judge chutkan in this case summarily answer a narrowly tailored answer. She could enter an order without hearing argument, katie. Judges do that all the time on pretrial motions, but here shes wise to hold the hearing. This gives her the opportunity to build a record, because this order, i think, no matter what she does, whether she denies it or grants it, it will go on appeal. Appellate courts only consider the record in front of them. They cant put issues in front of the Appellate Courts they did not put in front of the district judge. By building a record, shes creating an evidentiary filing that Court Of Appeals will be able to take a look at if in fact she issues a gag order that needs to be affirmed. Joyce, i had Glenn Kirschner on my show this weekend and we were joking a litt bit about how when we were in law school, you focus on the footnotes. The reason i bring this up is there is the footnote in jack smiths filing on page 14 for those at home who follow along and that talks about this firearm purchase. Purported purchase, did it really happen . We said it, we bought it, we didnt really buy it. Words can be harmful. They can result in actual physical harm. The purchase of a firearm in violation of Bond Conditions as well as in violation of federal statutes is something a little more serious. Do you think its worthwhile for judge chutkan to actually have an evidentiary hearing on this allegation raised by jack smiths counsel here or jack smith about this purchase of the firearm . Right, so its very interesting, katie, because committing a new federal crime is in fact a violation of his conditions of bond. So what the judge might do here, where i think, would depend on someone making a motion, probably the Probation Office saying hes violated his bond and that it should be revoked or prosecutors could make that motion. I suppose she could do it on her own. A judge just deciding to do something in and of their selves, but the prosecution offers it here not so much because they plan on indicting a new case, but to say look, its not fair. Trump says one thing, then his team walks it back. And hes trying to have it both ways. And here thats dangerous because hes intimidating witnesses. Hes threatening witnesses. And ultimately, that tanlts the jury pool. And judge, thats something you cant allow. Yeah, joyce, i would also note, donald trump actually reposted on social media, his social media thing, a post by a follower of his talking about how great it is that he bought this firearm, and so in terms of at rubiegz, an admission by a criminal defendant, in my mind, thats an admission. I have probably about 30 seconds left. I want you to predict whats going to happen on october 16th. Will judge Chutkan Hasten The Trial date . I think what well see is a limited narrow Restraining Order. I dont think shell move up the trial just yet. Shes giving him two weeks to prove hes continuing with this pattern of Witness Intimidation and that will make a limited Restraining Order appropriate as a first step. Later step could be moving up the trial date. I would add a supplementing filing if i were jack smith talking about what hes doing in the new York Attorney generals case, threatening the judge, talking badly about the judge and the Attorney General. Joyce vance, always so happy to see you. Thank you. Well be right back. K. Do you mean this one the one with titanium . sean no way i can trade this busted up thing for one. jason maybe stealing wishes from the birthday boy is not your best plan switch to verizon and trade in any iphone and get the new iphone 15 pro on them. sean what . jason yup, and on an Amazing Network sean and i dont have to ruin anymore Birthday Parties jason yeah, that ship has sailed. Lets go get you the iphone. Here we go, come on hon. vo trade in any iphone in any condition for a new iphone 15 pro on us. Only on verizon. Struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1 . Ask about vraylar. Because you are greater than your bipolar 1, and you can help take control of your symptoms with vraylar. 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