Transcripts For MSNBCW American 20240703

Capitol hill its left the House Majority in a new crisis of its own making. President biden, saying today that the short term fix that keeps the government open through November 17th is a step in the right direction. He warned the gopcontrolled house that chaos is no way to govern. It is time to end governing by crisis, and keep your word when you give it in the congress. A few months ago, after a long negotiation between myself and republican speaker of the house of representatives, we came to agree on a Budget Agreement precisely to avoid any manufactured crisis that we just witnessed. The last few days, and the weeks, extreme maga republicans have tried to walk away from that deal. I strongly urge my republican friends in congress to not wait. Dont waste time as you did all summer. Past the yearlong Budget Agreement, honor the deal that we made a few months ago. The tempered deal includes new funding for Disaster Relief and important funding for the faa. It does not include new aid for ukraine, or money for republican backed immigration policies. Speaker Kevin Mccarthy had the compromise with the democrats in order to pull off a saturday surprise, guaranteeing they would get a separate vote on ukraine funding. Details on when and how much are still pending. Working with democrats is not sitting well with Florida Governor matt gaetz. Its confirming this morning he will file a to oust from the speakership, simply for working across the aisle. This morning on cbs, Speaker Mccarthy said that he is ready for that fight. This is personal with matt. He voted against the most conservative ability to protect our border, secure our border. He is more interested in securing Tv Interviews than doing something. He wanted to push us into a shut down, even threatening his own district with all of the military people there who would not be paid, only because he wants to take this motion. So be it, bring it on, lets get it over with and start governing. If hes upset because he tried to push us into a shut down, and i made sure that the government didnt shut down, lets have that fight. Joining us now, Senior National correspondent for nbc news kapoor and luke broadwater, congressional reporter for the new york times. Where does the fight over Government Funding had no . Alicia, it is now on to the appropriators to try to find that agreement. Reaching a full year Government Funding deal. Remember, this deal just gets us to November 17th. The trains in the house and senate are operating on completely different tracks here. Youve got Kevin Mccarthy, the speaker and his Republican Congress in the house are still moving very partisan Appropriations Bills that include a host of spending cuts the democrats dont support. It includes provisions to respect abortion and lgbt rights. And they dont have a shot of passing the Democratic Senate and becoming law. There are levels that they are pursuing in terms of spending, also a twoyear budget deal that Speaker Mccarthy dropped with President Biden. That sound you just played from the president , telling them to stick to that. The Democraticled Senate is moving in a very different direction. They are sticking by that general Budget Agreement, they are moving in a bipartisan manner. The bills that they are passing have been approved by the committee on a unanimous basis, and are moving towards the senate floor. The senate has yet to pass those bills. Yesterdays, move it prevent a government shutdown, which is very good news for a lot of people that wouldve been negatively impacted by it. It did not really Bring Congress any closer to resolving the bigger issue. That is still to come. Luke, congressman gaetz, vowing to remove Kevin Mccarthy from his speakership. There are many ways that this could play out over the next week. How do you see it going . Yes, this is a very uncertain situation right now. The first question is whether matt gaetz can rally enough republicans with him to try to force mccarthy out. The second is what the democrats then do. Do they choose to step in and save mccarthy, or vote to kick him out and have a leaderless house for some period of time . I have heard all different reactions from democrats that i have talked to about this. Some of them are still very angry with mccarthy for reneging on the budget deal that he struck, and the fact that he is pursuing an Impeachment Inquiry into President Biden. Those are, not in their view, the actions of somebody that wants a compromise with the democrats. These people, if they were to save mccarthy, he would have to get democrats Something Big in order for them to step in and save the speakership. I want to underline something not from either of you, because you both understand this implicitly. This can seem like political theater, the motion to vacate. The fight over the speakership has real implications for how the government functions, both on its face the idea of having a speakerless house. But also part of what we are hearing about the possibility that there is appetite among members of the Republican Caucus to actually revise the rules so that people like matt gaetz have less power to mock things up. Thats right, alicia, there are some early rumbles about this. I spoke today to congressman Brian Fitzpatrick who reps the Swing District in pennsylvania. He said that if this motion to vacate continues to persist, and matt gaetz continues to make these threats, he doesnt think that gaetz is going to succeed in removing mccarthy. He says the republicans should revisit that rule package. The problem with, that is not clear if the votes are there in the republican conference to change the rules at this moment. There are several dozen rightwing members that forced mccarthy to give his concession, allowing any one member to go to the floor and force a vote to where the house could overthrow. Its not clear, several dozen members want to change the rules. They still like the idea of keeping him on a short leash. Broadly, gaetz has indicated hes going to call this motion to vacate. It has, as luke indicated, possibly been going down to democrats. Theyve been keeping their powder dry. It is not really clear what theyre going to do. They are at least open to a conversation about how to move forward. Then you have this push and pull, which makes it very difficult to see how this happens. The democrats are not going to want to do this for nothing. Theyre not going to want to rescue and bail out a speaker of the house who is impeaching a democratic president over what they say is absolutely no substantiation, no evidence. They dont like the way that he is functioning. Theyre going to want concessions from him. Is Kevin Mccarthy going to be able to survive those concessions . Are those concessions going to weaken him even further with the right . Not even the farright, but the center right if it ends up looking like some sort of Power Sharing Arrangement where he is giving democrats a real seat at the table when it comes to governing. It is very hard to see where that venn diagram meets or even exists. Luke, we often talk about 2024, we talk about it as if its a president ial election happening. Of course, but there are races down the ballot. It seems very relevant to me in this moment because there are people that watch what is happening in the house of representatives, and they can sort of say, well this happens every time they have to find the government. No, this one in particular was a Potential Shutdown over absolutely nothing. There was not even a issue that republicans were putting forward as the thing that they were willing to shut the government down for. It is also tied to our elections themselves. There was this great piece from Karen Tumulty in the Washington Post, saying in midterm elections, fewer than one in five eligible voters cast their ballots in party primaries. The rest of the country sits home and has to live with the consequences. That means a tiny and utterly on representative slice of americans is deciding who gets a seat in the u. S. House. In the case of matt gaetz, just 17 of registered voters turned out in the gop primary, in which he won last year. I say this all to say that you cannot watch what is happening on capitol hill. You cannot ask these questions about governance and divorce it from the way that our electoral politics play out. Yes, i mean you raise a good point. The primary system, the way that it is been carried out in america with increasingly fewer and fewer people, choosing the representative in a primary that will then sort of gerrymander that district. All of those incentives are to play to the far right or far left. In this case, this Potential Shutdown was unique because the fight here was completely between republicans. In past Potential Shutdowns, its usually been a dispute between a democratic president and republican house, whatever. Here, it was just in fighting with republicans that almost brought this country to the brink of a shutdown. I would think going into 2024, those voters will be watching that and seeing that really its all of this turmoil within the Republican Party. When the general election comes around, i would think at least some people will take a look at that. Its been a wild two days, im so grateful to have you here to walk us through. It thank you both so much. I want to bring in North Carolina democratic congresswoman deborah raw. She is vice Ranking Member of the house judiciary committee. She also serves on the house ethics committee. Congressman, thank you for being with us. I want to start with what appears to be another fight over who is going to be speaker of the house. If a vote is called, would you vote to oust Kevin Mccarthy . Its good to be with you this evening. Im glad we got a little bit of rest today. Im going to stick with Speaker Nancy Pelosi and say that we will follow our leader. We are going to have many caucuses. Im sure this week as we did on saturday and throughout last week. The wonderful thing about our House Democrats is that we have been showing up and sticking together. Lets pivot to the short term deal. It did not include funding for ukraine. Talk to us about your decision to support the stock app without ukraine, and what you hope happens next. First, i want you to know that i strongly support aiding ukraine, as do a majority of members of the house. We had a vote on that issue earlier. It became a Sticking Point for the senate as well, and because you already have a 45day extension, we have gotten assurances that it will not inhibit our efforts in ukraine, in the short term. Make no mistake, it is crucial that we continue to support ukraine, financially, morally, and with there are plans to do that. I know that Speaker Mccarthy has been in touch with the president , been in touch with leader schumer about that. We are going to fund ukraine through the appropriations process. What happens Going Forward is anybodys guess. As you have talked about earlier in this program, we dont know what is going to be happening with the speaker. We dont know whether or not all of the house Appropriations Bills will even pass on the floor. Last week, when we were having midnight sessions, one of those bills failed on the floor. The agriculture appropriations bill. Again, over these Poison Pill Riders that the extreme right wing minority insists on putting on these bills. We know whatever we sent to the senate, the senate will send us Something Back that is bipartisan. And it can easily get a majority of the house to vote for it. If the minoritymajority wants to be held hostage to their minority, and send a bunch of Appropriations Bills over to the senate, of confidence that the senate will send us back a much better product. There are many complex dynamics at play here. There is the infighting among republicans, and there is the reality that we are just a few days away from a government shutdown, impact for americans all across this country. Will republicans decide to launch their Impeachment Inquiry into President Biden . You take a step back, you see where we have landed, and the tea up to this moment. What it tells you about their priorities that it is the timing that they chose. It was a sideshow that risked a government shutdown. And then when they had that sideshow with their own witnesses, their own witnesses said that there was no evidence for an impeachment. While we shouldve been working on making sure that we fund the government, making sure that women and children could have access to food assistance, making sure that that had started not closed down. Making sure that our troops and Law Enforcement did not have to worry about when they would get their next paycheck. The republicans opened up a Sideshow Impeachment with their own witnesses telling them that they were wasting time. They did it again to appease this extreme right wing minority. It is time that we all just take back the house from that right wing minority. The people are suffering. It is just making the house not capable of doing what we are sent there to do. That is fight for the american people. We will see as they do get out over this speakership if there is actually an appetite to revise those rules so that they have a little bit less power. Carolina congressman deborah ross, as always, thank you for being with us. Next, donald trump heads to court in manhattan where the new York Business empire is in an existential threat. Plus, issuing new threats about against potential witnesses but, first Richard Louis who has tracked the other big stories that were watching this hour on msnbc. Richard . Thank, you alicia. Illinois residents are welcomed back home after cleanup from a ammonia spill. The spill was caused by a deadly crash involving a tanker truck to our south of chicago. Five people, including two children died in that crash. The annual twin Cities Marathon in minnesota was canceled today due to extreme heat. The National Weather service says that the record will hit the 90s today. Some are still going to run the ten or 26 mile journey whether the race will go on or not. A happy birthday today for former president jimmy carter. The former president and First Lady State at their home, but many of the family that includes 12 grandchildren and 14 great grandchildren celebrated with Community Members right down the block in downtown plains, georgia. More american voices, after this break. Center stage and is crushed by a baby grand piano. Youre replacing me . Customize and save with liberty bibberty. He doesnt even have a mustache. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Ive never been healthier. Only pay for what you need. Shingles doesnt care. But shingrix protects. Proven over 90 effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. Shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. 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Every day, businesses everywhere are asking is it possible . With Comcast Business. It is. Is it possible to help keep our Online Platform safe from cyberthreats . Absolutely. Can we provide health care virtually anywhere . We can help with that. Is it possible to use predictive monitoring to address Operations Issues . We can help with that, too. With the advanced connectivity and intelligence of global secure networking from Comcast Business. I am looking forward to its not just possible. Its happening. Actually seeing him in the courtroom. I would like him to be able to look me in the face to understand that he has created this. This is the first time in his entire life that he is going to be held accountable and have to deal with the repercussions of his own personal actions. Trump will be in Court Tomorrow in new york facing off with the states attorney general, suing him for fraud. The source familiar with the a. G. s plans tell nbc the she will attend the first day of trumps trial in manhattan. The judge will determine the damages to be paid by trump and his sons. The a. G. Is seeking at least 200 and 50 million. The court already found trump committed widespread fraud and removed his business license. What is known in that world is the corporate death penalty. Trump now stands to lose ownership of his properties in the tristate area, including his beloved trump tower in downtown manhattan. With us now, msnbc contributor and former watergate prosecutor jill winebanks. She hosts the hashtag sisters in law podcast, and author of the watergate girl. He says the trump is not called as a witness tomorrow, i wonder why you think hes planning to show up in court. I have a very simple explanation. He said that he would come to court in order to get the delay of a deposition in Michael Cohens lawsuit against him. I think that he is just trying to avoid being deposed. Thats why he said that he would be there. Its very circular when you put it that way. The judge will be weighing six fraud claims against trump. Ho is the a. G. Likely to build her case when you look at these six claims . This is, of course a non jury trial. Its a trial for this judge who has already used words like obstruct us, frivolous, i feel like i am trapped in a Groundhog Day loop. Therefore, he already knows what the fraud is. The first element has been established, and is just a question of damages. Then he will be going or she will, however the prosecutor in the courtroom is. They will start proving a false records, and his knowledge of it. They will go from there, and i think that there is so much evidence laid out in the original complaint that there is no doubt about what is going to be happening here. He will be found guilty on all of the charges, his two sons will be guilty. His ceo, all of the others charged. And then it is just a question of they are recommending of a receiver to oversee the solution of the companies and to use that money to pay for all of the damages assessed. You have jumped ahead to the conclusion of this case. I want to ask you, what happens if trump does take the stand and try to plead the fifth . His lawyers will be tearing their hair out. They will be very upset. He will no doubt go beyond the questions. He is not learned how to say that im listening to your question, im going to answer that and only that. His depositions were used very skillfully in the e. Jean carroll trial. They will be used here as well. He gets himself into trouble because he admits the crimes by saying, well i had the right to do it. I didnt. It is not how you win a civil case, or a criminal case. Anything that he says in this case can be used against him in a criminal case. He is in very deep trouble. Hes on the list for the defense side and on the prosecution side. The prosecution has a right to call him, and if he pleads the fifth amendment, the jury in this case the judge, can use that as evidence against him. They can draw the inference that what he wouldve said wouldve been bad for his position. He is in trouble whether he testifies or does not testify. Jill, i want to show you something because it helps to illustrate the scope and scale of what we are talking about, the Washington Post publishing a trump inflation calculator. It used data from the new york lawsuit. For example, trump would list a 100,000 Dollar Property as worth up to three point 4 million. When you look at that delta, what could it mean for the scale of damages against trump, against this company . It means that laetitia james, the Attorney Generals estimate of 200 and 50 million, is probably not enough. To the extent that any penalties need to be imposed, as for example with 5 million not stopping him from redefaming e. Jean carroll. The damages go up. The amount, i think the total is around 2. 2 billion over the statement. You have to recoup that money. Somehow. I think that the damages are going to be quite high. Given that he does not really own all of the property that he says he owns, he has licensing rights, Management Fees coming from it. It could be the total dissolution of everything the trump and you didnt mention, but chicago has a trump tower as well. Its a very big i saw her. Everyone is hoping that that will come down as well. It is one of the defendants. Jill winebanks, as always, its so great to see you. Thank you so much for taking this time. Coming, up i will speak with author and historian Ruth Benghiat after bidens new warning about extremist republicans. Its a new war of the the speakers, beginning this week. The pending fight for Speaker Mccarthy and matt gaetz needs democracy. Thats next. Ose 60 years and older protect against rsv with arexvy. Arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower Respiratory Disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. Arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. Those with weakened Immune Systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. The most common side effects are Injection Site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. I chose arexvy. Rsv . Make it arexvy. Trumps broken in gaetzs eyes is mccarthy working in democrats after the last, to avoid a shut. To be clear democrats made concessions well about ukraine. A promise the president says he will hold mccarthy to. I hope my Friends On The Other Side keep their word about support for ukraine. They said they are going to support ukraine, in a separate vote. We cannot, under any circumstances, allowed America Support for ukraine to be interrupted. I fully expect the speaker to keep his commitment to secure the passage and support ukraine, as they defend themselves against aggression and brutality. Joining me now, former florida Republican Congressman david jolly, and Georgetown Institute of politics in Public Service Executive Director mo. It is good to see you both. Ive got to ask you, on weekends like this, do you miss being a member of the Republican Caucus . Because, i have to imagine that as you watch this go down, there are just shades of 2015 all over this thing. There are. Look, alicia, im actually an appropriations junkie, its been 30 years, ive got four just got every shot down, and shutdowns standoff, if you will. And what i dont miss is the internal machinations of the Republican Party that is currently a disaster, a dumpster fire. And i think we have to be careful how he framed what happened this weekend, because mccarthy is taking the victory lap will. Yes. This is not his victory. Democrats did this, with the ye votes in the, house you need 218. There were 209 democrats took responsibility for keeping the government open, and only about 130 or so republicans. But yet, Kevin Mccarthy once is just that somehow, he was governing through. This jeffries was, and so matt gaetz actually really has a point within the Republican Caucus. He is just so ruined and sullied his own personal reputation, that they find him detestable, and nobody wants to actually support his motion, because it is coming from gaetz. But at the end of the day, i think the votes will be there among republicans, to vacate Kevin Mccarthy, just because the margins are so slim. And then the question becomes, do democrats support keeping Kevin Mccarthy . I dont think they should, i think it would be a disaster if they do. But, do they provide the votes to save Kevin Mccarthy, because its a question for House Democrats. Well, im going to paying that question over to you, mo, because there is now a question among democrats about how this all plays out, including the possibility that the republicans, who are now willing to revise the rules, because they too are so tired of things getting mocked up, because a few members of their caucus dont actually want to legislate. Yeah, i think that democrats are going to hold there for a little bit, and wait and see how the next couple of days ago. You know, there is no love lost between the House Democratic caucus and Speaker Mccarthy. Democrats, a lot of them are out there saying they dont trust the guy, they think he is a weak speaker. But the one thing that i think they are even less inclined to do then support Kevin Mccarthy, is help matt gaetz, in anything. I think what happens with this ukraine vote is going to be incredibly important. If the speaker does not move forward with a clean up or down vote on support for ukraine, then i think he is done. I think most democrats may actually cross over, and support the motion to vacate. But, if it happens, i think Hakeem Jeffries is likely going to tell members to vote their conscience. He will get some, like aoc, who has indicated she will likely vote to remove the speaker. You will get some moderates, who will vote for, against the motion to vacate, because they think he did the right thing, and they dont want to see someone worse. They dont want to see someone with matt gaetzs endorsement, getting the speakers chair. So, we will see what happens, but the next couple of days are going to be key. I just wanna take a big step back, david, because i think this can get lost in all the machinations. Which is, you have hard right republicans, if thats even how you referred to them anymore, you got people like matt gaetz, they are pushing back so firmly against aid for ukraine, right. What does that tell you, about what is actually motivating them, and what their priority is . Well, its not the security of the west, and its not the International Security of democracies, and freedom for individual people. Its about owning the libs, and dunking on biden. And Kevin Mccarthy is just as guilty as matt gaetz, for not holding the line on this, but mo is, right that is the practical political analysis. My blood boils little bit on this one, because Kevin Mccarthy has been the custodian of Donald Trumps authoritarianism for the last six years. He has carried the antidemocratic means of todays Republican Party. He broke a deal with joe biden, that was nine days old, he refuses to cooperate with the january six commission, he launched an impeachment of joe biden. And then, when he does engage in policy, it is hard right policies, that attack individual freedom, and he will do it again. So, there is no reason for democrats to work with him. He is not a gentler, Kinder Conservative republican. He is simply not. He is somebody who is rudderless, it will go wherever the politics of the moment lasts. And heres what i would say about the process here. Vacating the chair creates an opportunity for democrats. Because, there is no republican today that could get 218 votes. We will be back in january, with our 15 votes for, speaker 20 votes for speaker, and the currency and leverage of Hakeem Jeffries and democrats get strong with every lost vote of republicans david i absolutely agree with you. Inasmuch as gaetz may be a thorn in Kevin Mccarthys side, he also allows a sort of shifting of where the center is, right . That in comparison to matt gaetz, it looks as though Kevin Mccarthy is a person who wants to govern, and legislate. But again, that is not the appropriate comparison. I also love when your blood boils. But as your friend, i do worry about your blood pressure, whenever i get you. That rouse up about republican politics. Im losing all the time that we had, but i want to make sure, mo, that i go to you. I dont know if you saw this news about dean phillips stepping away from his leadership position, specifically because of this call, this possibility of a run against biden. Your thoughts, mo . Yeah, i am not surprised. Look, there is very, very little appetite anywhere in the Democratic Party for a significant challenge to joe biden. Especially at this stage. And the fact that he is still out there, stirring the pot, i dont think is making a lot of friends for him. Within the House Democratic leadership. Or the caucus. So, i am not surprised. What he said it seems to kind of reflect that. You know, i get what dean phillips is saying. In 2028, i think the party is going to have a very real conversation about a generational change, but its not going to happen now. David and mo, as always, thank you both so much. Next, professor Ruth Benghiat on President Bidens latest warning about current dangers to democracy. A mystery jessie loves playing detective. But the real mystery was her irritated skin. So, we switched to tide pods free gentle. It cleans better, and doesnt leave behind irritating residues. And its gentle on her skin. Tide free gentle is epa safer choice certified. Its got to be tide. This halloween, trick or treat yourself to the blendjet 2 portable blender. Its to die for. Blendjet 2 gives you monstrous power for a delicious smoothie, shake, or frappe anytime, anywhere. Cleaning blendjet 2 is scary easy. Just blend water with a drop of soap. Recharge quickly with any usb port. Boogie on over to blendjet. Com and order yours today. Well, a shutdown was ultimately averted, almost everyone thought a shutdown was a foregone conclusion. Thankfully, by saturday morning, enough House Republicans stood with democrats, to do the right thing. As president pointed biden pointed out the state after the temporary funding bill this near shut, i never had to be. And today, President Biden warned of the same extreme republicans, who nearly shut it all down for political gain, that not to try again in 45 days. So, take note of what is not included in this temporary funding. The reason it was temporarily held up in the senate, there is no aid for ukraine. Yes, their effort and yes, ukraine says it can make good for now. Big picture, the greatest democracy on earth is not sending new aid, right now, to a democracy under attack by russia. What does that say about the Current Health of our democracy . Lets ask Ruth Benghiat, shes a History Professor at nyu, and an author of strongmen, from mussolini to the present. Ruth, what does this fight over ukraine aid tell you about how some members of the Republican Party view democracy period . Yeah, this is, it is very revealing, because they held out for what they most prioritized, and that was not giving aid to ukraine. And alicia, as you know, i see the gop, unfortunately now, as an authoritarian party. And, if it had its own foreign policy, acts like this show us that it is an authoritarian party, allied with autocracies around the world. It is not interested in supporting democracies, nor democracy at home. It is interested, seemingly, in helping putin, although there are some republicans who dont feel that way, the fact that this got through, under those terms, says a great deal about the priorities of the gop, at this time. Im not sure if you heard the conversation i was just having with david jolly, who of course is a former republican member of the house of representatives, about the fact that he would argue, Kevin Mccarthy is as complicit as a matt gaetz, it what we have watched go down, specifically when it comes to funding for ukraine. And it strikes me that you have President Biden last week, outlining threats to democracy, posed by todays Republican Party. And President Biden himself, highlighting the silence from moderate republicans, saying it is making the problem worse. We focus a lot on the handful of really loud people on the margins. But, talking about the dynamics of people who are supposedly at the center, carrying the same water . What you, i am so glad. You mentioned that, and i was actually extremely happy that President Biden mentioned this. Because, authoritarianism takes hold not only because propaganda, because some people are making a lot of noise, and spreading talking points. It also takes hold because many people are silent, they are silent out of complicity, out of fear, out of power in this. And Kevin Mccarthy, it is absolutely, he is like emblematic of the journey of the gop. You know, in 2016, he said in a private meeting to paul ryan, quote, i think putin is paying trump. And, then he had to kind of walk that back, and forget that he ever said that, and become trumps best water carrier. He voted, i think under the trump presidency, he voted over 97 of the time with trumps wishes. And then, his career, he got what he wanted. So, for him to oversee this now, that it pleases putin, by denying aid to ukraine, is emblematic of the journey of the Republican Party. I want to ask you about something that has been happening in tandem this week with a story that we have been following, most aggressively this weekend, which is the ability to avert a government shutdown, which is, you have former President Trump making these threatening statements against judges, against potential witnesses, at his trials. There is a conversation about the gag order itself, but there is also sort of this bigger conversation about the tendency of autocrats, worldwide, to do the same, and the danger of allowing it to become normalized. Yeah, this is, it is really scary. Trumps political project now is inciting violence. He has nowhere to go but to become more extreme. He is actually using his campaign as a radicalization vehicle. Every event, every appearance is designed to incite more violence. And that is why he kicked it off at waco texas, which is a Pilgrimage Site for all kinds of extremists, it is why he went to a gun store recently. It is why he does these trial balloons, oh perhaps you know, the chair of the joint Chief Of Staff milley should be executed. It is not a day goes by where he isnt trying to change the way americans see violence, from something repugnant, to something that perhaps will be necessary to save the nation. Ruth benghiat, always, i see these stories which we often present as disparate and separate stories. And, you are always able to connect the dots for us, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. Next, millions of americans are about to get bills, again, for their student loans. So, what does that mean for the approximately half of College Students who are considered first jen . And later, on msnbc, ayman will be joined by barba mcquade, tara setmayer, jennifer reuben, for an allstar legal panel, just hours ahead of trumps 250 Million Dollar civil fraud trial. That is tonight, nine eastern, on ayman, right here on msnbc. Somedays, i cover up because of my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. Now i feel free to bare my skin, thanks to skyrizi. uplifting music nothing is everything im celebrating my clearer skin. My way. With skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90 clearer skin at 4 months. In another study, most people had 90 clearer skin, even at 5 years. And skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. Serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. Thanks to clearer skin with skyrizi this is my moment. Theres nothing on my skin and that means everything nothing is everything nows the time. Ask your doctor about skyrizi, the 1 dermatologistprescribed biologic in psoriasis. Learn how abbvie could help you save. [music playing] subject 1 cancer is a long journey. Its overwhelming, but you just have to put your mind to it and fight. Subject 2 it doesnt feel good because you cant play outside with other children. Subject 3 as a parent, it is your job to protect your family. But here is something that i cannot do. I cannot fix this. I dont know if my daughter is going to be able to walk. I dont know if shes going to make it till tomorrow. [music playing] interviewer you can join the battle to save lives by supporting st. Jude childrens research hospital. Families never receive a bill from st. Jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food so they can focus on helping their child live. Subject 4 childhood cancer, theres no escaping it. But st. Jude is doing the work, continually researching towards cures, giving more than just my child a chance at life. Interviewer please, call or go online right now and become a st. Jude partner in hope for only 19 a month. Subject 5 those donations really matter because were not going to give up. And when you see other people not giving up on your child, it makes all the difference in the world. Interviewer when you call or go online with your credit or debit card right now, well send you this st. Jude tshirt. You can wear to show your support to help st. Jude save the lives of these children. Subject 6 st. Jude is hope. Even today after losing a child, its still about the hope of tomorrow, because. Childhood cancer has to end. Interviewer please, call or go online right now. [music playing] way back in 1982 we took care of about forty kids and had to turn away over two hundred and fifty. Its the emotion of that moment that said man that just isnt fair, and i think it was at that moment that Operation Smile was born. Every three minutes a child is born with a cleft condition. Thousands are waiting for the cleft surgery and care your support gives. Its frustrating, its never, they need you. Give joy and a new smile. Scan the code or go online to give today. Its not that i didnt intend to pay, because i do intend to pay my student loans. Its just that the amount was so high. Being so young, and in so much debt for. Doing something that i thought was going to better my life. It has absolutely been the biggest regret of my life. Starting today, tens of millions of americans with federal Student Loan Debt are expected to resume making those payments. This comes after a three year pause during the covid pandemic, and after the Biden Administration fought to forgive up to 20,000 in student debt, for millions of eligible borrowers. The conservative majority on the Supreme Court put an end to that effort in june. But one elevate americans carry Student Loan Debt, but it doesnt affect all borrowers equally. First generation College Students tend to borrow more often than their counterparts. Its a reality that the former White House Deputy director of Hispanic Media captures in her new memoir, first jen. I asked her to explain to people who have not had her experience, what life is like as a first, and only. It is something that is kind of interwoven into the fabric of your life, when you are first generation, a first and only, is what i call it in the book. Because, you know, you are raised by this collective a lot of times, and you walk into the world with a lot of people at your back. And that is beautiful, because you want to see everyones experiences through. And i talk a lot in the book about this generational in the cycles and then we want to break. And also the cycles that we want to continue, and third, the cycles that we want to set, that we want to be the first one to set. And so there is, there is a lot of isolation in the first generations experience, at the same time, the fingerprints of your family, and your culture, and all of their expectations. And, and maybe they are missed chances, they feel so, so real, and present. Can you tell me about a time when your being the first, and the only, allowed you to see a question of policy, of communication, differently than your peers . Well, in my role at the white house, i was Deputy Director of Hispanic Media. And at the time, there had never been a team that was dedicated only to hispanic, the hispanic community, latinos. And so for me, i was thinking about how it is that we translated this message, how is it that this message, again, its the same message for all of the country. But, what about the cultural sensitivities that allows it to really land, and allows us to be seen. Because that is what we want, that is why i wrote this book. If what people get, take away from this book is feeling seen, and less alone and validated in their experiences, then i was successful. It strikes me that you are writing a book about being first jen, at a time when Denver City Equity and inclusion is under attack. I wonder, as you take this message to college campuses, as you engage with students. Understanding the political backdrop of this moment, what it is you want them to take away from it . While the interesting thing, as a third of College Students right now are first generation students. So, and we are actually not talking about this like small group here, of a very specific demographic. We are talking about millions of students, okay. But also, 90 of first jen students dont graduate on time. So the messages early, we have to Start Talking about this, we have to Start Talking about why, what is going wrong with, wrong is the wrong word. But, what is hindering, the Emotional Mental Health of these students, that is making this beyond an academic struggle. I commissioned a poll recently nationwide a first jen students, and 65 of them said that their first jen experiences negatively impacted their mental and emotional health. And the reason, i thought was fascinating. Not what you would think, and what we always talk about, which is the message levitate to student. Its impostor syndrome, they are talking like, they were at the bottom. Number one was financial trauma, and number two was a loneliness. And isolation. So lets talk about that, because there is a lot of policy changes we can make, theres a lot of ways that we need to reform higher education. But we cant leave the students behind, in the very real trauma of social mobility. You positive powerful question in the book, that i want to pull back to you. And that is, you ask why are we still sold a one dimensional narrative of what it takes to achieve the American Dream . What would it look like, if that narrative were multi dimensional . It would look like us talking about the pitfalls, about the stumbles, about the scars, about all of these pieces that, when you are, as they say, when you are skating over finn ice, your speed is your safety, right. When you are trying to make it, when youre just trying to break it, great three, and establish a new path for your family, your community even, that looks very different than the typical American Dream. And a lot of times, the things that you do along the way our weaponized against you, when you get to where you want to be. The parts of you that were deeply meaningful, and talking about that, allows us to not think that we are broken, it allows us to not think that we did something wrong. You know, a lot of the idea of this book came when i was giving a speech, and you hear it being introduced, im sure it happens you all the time. And its like, alicia did, this and, this and this, and this. Its sparkly. I mean, it seemed so linear and smooth. And youre like no, this book is the spaces between the bullet points. That is how i describe it. We need to talk about the space between our bullet points, to know that we are right on track. My thanks again to alejandro campbell verity. Her new memoir is out now, it is called first jen. That does it for us today, and for this weekend. I am alicia menendez, i want to thank you for spending part of your sunday with us. Be sure to follow michelle on twitter, instagram, and on tiktok, at alicia on msnbc. Were going to see her next weekend for more american voices, after a short break, it is inside with jen psaki. Have a great night. Rsv can severely affect the lungs and lower airways. But im protected with arexvy. 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