Thats it. Thats all youve got to. So ive got to go, i have a lot of work to do. Get into it. Ill be watching. Thank, you alex. By. Well, she went to the Cherry Hill Mall in new jersey, looking for something to wear. She found a white blazer at zahra. There was no reason for anyone to notice the 25yearold trying on that blazer. No one knew she was out of work, behind on her rent, had lost wifi service at her apartment because she couldnt afford it anymore. The name on the overburdened credit card she used to pay for the blazer meant nothing to anyone in that store. It would be the last time in her life that she could go shopping anywhere in america and not to be recognized. Some places cheered, and some places attacked or threatened. A week later, she combined the white blazer with Rhinestone Earrings from kohls and a necklace she received 12 years earlier on her 13th birthday. And she changed the course of history. Todays witness, miss Cassidy Hutchinson, is another republican and another former member of president Trumps White House staff. In her role, working for the white house chief of staff, miss hutchinson handled a vast number of sensitive issues. She worked in the west wing, several steps down the hall from the oval office. Miss hutchinson spoke daily with members of congress, with highranking officials in the administration, with senior white house staff, including mr. Meadows. With White House Council lawyers, and with mr. Tony ornato, who served as the White House Deputy chief of staff. She also worked on a daily basis with members of the Secret Service who were posted in the white house. In short, miss hutchinson was in a position to know a great deal about the happenings in the trump white house. Miss hutchinson has already sat for four videotaped interviews with committee investigators, and we thank her very much for her cooperation and for her courage. I saw mr. Cipollone right before i walked to that morning, and mr. Cipollone said something to the effect of, please make sure we dont go up to the capitol, cassidy. Keep in touch with me. Were going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen. And do you remember which crimes mr. Cipollone was concerned with . In the days leading up to the sixth, we had conversations about potentially obstructing justice or defrauding the electoral count. Thanks in part to her testimony, mark meadows and his boss donald trump have been charged with obstructing justice and defrauding the United States of america. Before Cassidy Hutchinson testified to the january 6th committee on live television, there was no Special Prosecutor investigating donald trump. For anything, including his actions leading up to and on january 6th. The Justice Department investigation of donald trump, which is now headed by Special Prosecutor jack smith, was following the lead of the january 6th committee, whose star witness was Cassidy Hutchinson. Cassidy hutchinson was 24 years old, working in the Power Corridor of the west wing of the white house, when the crimes mark meadows and donald trump are now charged with were being committed in those rooms, according to the indictments. Cassidy hutchinson didnt want to do it. The day the world met her on live television, testifying to the january six committee, the very last thing she said after fighting off a panic attack right before testifying, was do i have to do this . She had been asking herself that question silently for months. She was facing a monumental conflict with huge stakes between personal loyalty and truth. And in the end, truth one. That is the story Cassidy Hutchinson tells in her new book, enough. Joining us now for a discussion about that is Cassidy Hutchinson. Thank you very much for doing this tonight. I really appreciate it. So, how are you dealing with the Panic Attacks . Last night, i saw you in the hallway here before going on rachels show. You didnt seem close to panic attack at all. Is this a calmer process than what you went through with the committee . Im more at peace now. I am so nervous. Its a different type of nervous, though. Before i testified to the committee and to the country, i felt there was a lot riding on what i was going to say. But i know i was also calmed by fulfilling my sense of duty. This chapter of my life is different because i made the choice to come forward and share my story. So there is a natural nerve element to it, but as Alex Butterfield spoke to me, which i know well get to, there have been forces throughout this journey that have helped me along the way in this section of my life. And now i feel very blessed and honored to be able to be here today to help show that story. Your mother is the first person you think in this book. And she is throughout the book, as one of your Guiding Lights that gets you through some very difficult moments. How is she dealing with this week in your life, where you have now been doing this . I have seen you a little bit on some of the interviews youve done about this. This is a whole new stage. For your mother, how is she doing . Shes doing really well. I think its a difficult adjustment for her to. She is a concerned parent, she wants the best for me. But i think that she also is guided by this sense of peace, knowing that what i am doing can hopefully help impact at least one other person. Hopefully we can help the country as well. In the book, there are times when you are protecting your mother from the knowledge of what kind of pressure you are under, and possibly the kinds of threats you could face. Especially when you had become cooperating witness in the january 6th committee. The Security Requirements for that changed dramatically, and there were moments there where you didnt want your mother to know just how risky that could be. I suppose shes up to speed about how it works now. She is. But i also think that she knows now that there that its going to be okay. And i was at peace with this, even if there are Security Threats now, its not something we havent dealt with before. And our goal, michael, is to be able to get past this moment in american history, where you are afraid to speak out and tell the truth. Because youre worried that there are people that are going to threat to your safety and security. Thats normal, thats normal we know, and we know from your book that you testified to District Attorney fani williss grand jury in georgia. She has said she has 150 witnesses for the trial. Against donald trump, or March Meadows if theyre tried together. Both of those trials. Are you one of those witnesses . I have cooperated with every investigation that ive been asked to testify to, and i will continue to do so. With every investigation moving forward. Has the District Attorney given you any sense that you might be testifying in this first speedy trial that occurs next month . If she does ask, i will be fully cooperative. But so far, she hasnt . Theres no word from them about it . I will leave that with my prior statement. I understand that some of these questions will have that kind of careful answer that you might have to give. So i want to do the same thing with jeff smiths prosecutions. Jack smiths prosecution in washington d. C. That might not be occurring at all, were it not for your testimony to the january six committee. Will you be a witness in that case . This is the case of the United States of america, versus donald trump. That is the name of the case. Where he is charged with crimes, leading up to and on january 6th. He is the only defendant in that case. Do you expect to be a witness in that trial . If jack smith and his team asked that i testify, i will cooperate with that. Is that on the next card i want to be careful, not just for my interests, but i think that there is something to respect about our institutions of government, and our Department Of Justice is designed to operate effectively behind closed doors. And i would not want to get ahead of anything that the prosecution will say. But i will say this to you, lawrence. What i think i testified to to the committee was vital and it was important at the time. Because there werent a lot of other people testifying. Hopefully my testimony helped open the door to some people that could provide more information. So my next question, which i can anticipate the answer to already, is because of the book, not because of anything you said in the january six committee. And it is the question of, will you be a witness in the florida case, in charging donald trump with violations of the espionage act, obstruction of justice, he also has to codefendants, people who worked for him who were in their own way in similar positions to where you were in the white house with the president. The reason i ask is because the book is filled with Mark Meadows Burning documents in that fireplace and in the white house chief of staffs office there is a description of these classified documents being moved around, being stored in your desk, where youre saying they shouldnt be stored. And then being handed to reporters, and all of that raises the question of whether you would have relevant information to that case in florida. And, would you be a witness there . Im not sure that i would have relevant information necessarily directly pertinent to that case, lawrence. But i think what i discuss in the book and overall, in terms of how the administration, especially towards the, and handled Classified Information, the book helped shed light on that. But it also helped shed light on how frivolous certain individuals were handling Classified Information. I cant speak exactly to what was brought down to maralago, but i could speak and i can speak to how we were not handling Classified Information up to the standards of national security. You have descriptions of that going right up until 15 minutes before noon on inauguration day, with mark meadows telling you that he is rushing over to the Justice Department to try to get the document declassified before donald trump loses the powers of the presidency. Were you a witness when you look back on it . Did you see things that help explain to you how all of those documents got to florida, that the fbi found in their search . Flo i dont know exactly what documents were brought down to florida. I knew what, in hindsight, i knew especially what mark was dealing with. I dont know if thats part of the indictment, just to be completely frank without. But its still speaking to how it documents did get down there. And i can see how the documents that got down to florida made their way down there. I wouldnt im not under the impression that was necessarily accidental. You mean by just the general way documents were managed in the west wing, or specifically were there specific moments you saw collections of boxes over there in the corner that you understood were going to florida . I was not directly part of the packing of the box is processed. This book is so im going to say, surprisingly well written. Because these are the kinds of books that come out when someones gone through a big event, and they generally chronicle the events clearly. And hopefully hopefully, as this book certainly does. You had mark salter, who was a great writer, collaborating you on this. He hoped john mccain write books, and it is an allstar sleep arsenal book. You tell us everything there is to know about your family and how that interacts with these events. And in this story, you are failed by many men, going through this story. Not just mark meadows, your boss, the president of the United States, but beginning sadly with your father and the way your father failed you in the midst of your desperate attempt to try to get a lawyer and you went to your father to try to get financial help from your father. You brought your january 6th subpoena with you to show him. I just want to use your audio book too tell the audience that passage of the book. Well just listen to that. I pulled my subpoenaed that i had folded in quarters out of my coat pocket, and handed it to him. Please, i just need you to listen, i said, my voice trembling. He looked at me, expecting me to say more. But i could not find my words. He threw the subpoena in the trash, ranting that i did not need to do anything theyd ask me to do. He had read dont mind that it was not mandatory to comply with congressional subpoenas, the investigation was a witch hunt to take donald down, he said. He preyed i was not there to ask for money, to pay for a corrupt lawyer. Any lawyer who did not work for donald was corrupt. He had raised me better than to turn my back on the people who cared about the. People like myself, and donald. You didnt raise me at all, was all i thought of to say. And that scene gets even rougher than that. This is, im sure it was painful to right, its painful to read, and it is very much, it seems to me, as a reader, a very clear explanation of the kinds of pressures of predicament you were in. Yeah, and you know, that scene was difficult to write, as was a lot of the book, lawrence. When i made the decision to write a book, about my experiences, i knew going into it that i wanted to bring people into how i actually experienced all of that, i thought that was really critical, because i wasnt just somebody who arrived at that moment, on june 28th. And i had a lot of trial and error, to get to that moment. Ive made a lot of mistakes, i try my best to take accountability for all of those, but i think whats important to the readers, as mark salter and i, who, thank you for your very kind words mark salter is a phenomenal human being who helped pull the story out of me do on my own, but when mark and i were writing this together, i wanted to write it in a way where i wanted to bring my readers into the actual moments that helped shape me. And that scene in particular, yes, it was very difficult, and even just hearing that is the first time ive heard the audio book, but its important to help explain how i got to where was when i had a trump affiliated lawyer, and then when i ultimately made the split, found new council. In trying to explain, you are now trying to explain to the whole country, and to a larger audience, and i know, i know by twitter and comment last night with rachel show, and today, there are people in this audience right now who cant understand why you are a republican. And then they cannot possibly understand why you would vote for donald trump. I get it, because i worked in washington, and i understand it. You started off in the legislative affairs, you started working in the congress, and in the white house are working in legislative affairs, which isnt directly with the president at all, its trying to work with members of the house and senate to pass legislation. And you only end up in the white house chief of staffs office in april, of the last year of the trump presidency, its really five or six months before you its only a few months before you are at the election, and then its lost, and then theres the madness of the december. But in that process, what i discovered in the book is that there was one person, theres one person who i can find in here, actually maybe a couple, who when it matters, said no you cant do that. And i was sitting out here, watching that presence, and wondering, is there anyone . Is there anyone in the west wing who says to anyone above them, in your case mark meadows, the president and mark meadows, no you cant do that . Thats something you are doing a lot. It is, and i took the job with mark with the understanding that we would likely not always agree on everything. I think thats why mark and i had an effective working relationship. Mark put a lot of trust in me. Mark and i, ideologically were not very similar, and more moderately republican the mark is, but someone has to be able to say the hard no. Someone has to be the person to rein someone in, or just give advice that you may not want to hear. It may not be received well, but it was important that i always provide that to mark, and i felt that i was there to help him advise and guide him in that job. Was i official at a water at points . Absolutely. But i think thats how a lot of the Trump Administration played out, and i think, and sometimes hair on fire moments, we were swimming to stay afloat. And a lot of times, we were drowning. Whether it was pat cipollone, or myself, or a few other aides that were willing to say no, it the president s work was still the final word, and it was our job to make sure he had the best advice possible. Its so striking in the book how challenging it was for you to get the spot, first of all, you can find an honest lawyer who to give you good advice, and then, tell the whole truth to the january six committee. Its also fascinating to see that when you are getting bad advice from trump paid lawyer, and you are doing those depositions on jarry six committee, you are trying to leave them clues. You are giving them incomplete answers, where you are hoping, as you put it, there were bread crumbs that they could follow up with other people. Yeah, thats true. I wanted i felt like i was in a difficult position, in a lot of ways, because when i found my way back into trump world, and i had a trump world attorney, there also is a sense of understanding in that environment, and i know, because i had been part of that environments. I spent a year trying to separate from that environment. But there is an understanding that you have a higher loyalty, and i knew how i felt about january six, i knew how fervently i disagreed with it, by also knew that it wasnt, i was not i thought that i was not in a position to be completely empowered to tell the whole truth. But i wanted the truth to be known, and it took a lot of introspection, and thinking, and reevaluating my decisions, but even at the end, even on june 28th, i didnt want to be the person sitting in that chair. And i dont say that, as i have some sort of heroes complex, i shouldnt have been the person sitting in that chair that day, it should be the people more senior to me. I understand why it was important that i sat in that chair that day, and i am proud of all the work that the committee did, and if i could have provided any information to help their investigation, or any an investigation, i fulfilled my duty as a public servant. But lawrence, were living in this era where people are avoiding accountability, and theyre not upholding the oath that they swore to protect and defend the United States, and thats not okay. None of this is okay. And it takes someone to say enough, enough is enough. We need to be able to get past that, we need to be able to move on, and we need to respond normalcy and responsibility in our politics. This story, which is so compelling we told, and so revealing, and i will admit to you, i thought this is slow going at the beginning, because i want to get to the good stuff, and then i realized, its all worth it, its all necessary to get to this understanding of you, and i just want to olives to the audience right now, in this hour of television, youre not gonna get the understanding of Cassidy Hutchison that you will get from this promptly book, that does answer all your questions about her. Its a story of, as i see it, three families. Theres your family, in new jersey, the family would begin with in this book. Which has its own struggles. And then theres the trump family, what mark meadows refers to as, staying in the family, and others referred to as, the family, meaning staying on the team, on the trump team. And then, towards the end of the story, theres the family of support that you discover that now includes your lawyers, and you were led to that family by maybe the key person in that family, it was a 97yearold man, who i know is watching this show tonight. Who, decades before you were born did what you did, and went into a congressional investigation of a republican president and told the truth. Lets look at that moment. Mr. Butterfield are you aware of the installation of any It Listening Devices out in the oval Office Of The President . I was aware of listening devices, yes sir. Mr. Butterfield, as far as you know, from your own personal knowledge, from 1970 until president time, all the president s conversations in the office has mentioned, and on the telephones mentioned, were reported . Thats correct. And as far as you know, those tapes are Still Available . As far as i know, but ive been away for months sir. I have no further questions. How did Alexander Butterfield become your guide through this challenge . I reached a point in April Of 2022 where i was reading through pages of my transcript that i had been made public, and it was for, lack of a better phrasing, i sort of have this mental breakdown, because i saw that i became a person i never wanted to become. I knew how far gone i was from that person, and how far gone i was from the person that i was when i want to that also was able to recognize that there was a slim window where i could correct course, and i could find a second chance. It would be hard, but i wanted to try. How so i connected with an old friend, alyssa farah griffin, who is my first Guiding Light in this journey, and alyssa i worked within the Trump Administration, and she spoke out after january 6th, on the seventh, against what happened on that day. I was driving up to new jersey, as i do when i need to get a little bit of relief from d. C. , and i start googling watergate. I was thinking, there had to be somebody, there had to be somebody in watergate that had a similar position to me that had and had this position that required this incredible amount of trust and confidence, then ended up doing the right thing. And thats when i came across Alex Butterfields name. I searched his name, and i was like, he must of had to write a book. And he didnt, in the immediate, and then i found this book that he worked with and bob woodward, the last of the president span we both have our copies. This is my beloved copy of the book. I ordered two and i read it three times in a night. I saw in alex, the person that i wanted to be. I saw somebody that had not only this incredible moral character, and this incredible america patriotism, but he knew that if he was ever asked to testify, hed be forthcoming. He would tell the truth. And he had no reservations about that. Thats how i wanted to be, and thats where i wanted to get myself. I was in a really dark period of my life, but alex sharing his story nearly 50 years later with bob woodward, is the reason im sitting here today, and if theres anything hopefully well have more time to discuss it, this book was profound, and i think alex is what the most incredible people ive had the honor to know and meet. But the fact that he was willing to share a story, but also share the truth, history will repeat itself if we dont have good people in government willing to stop corruption. Alex is so emblematic of that. Alex has something to say to you, which were gonna get to after this commercial break, were gonna be right back with cassidy hutchins. Cassidy hutchins [gasp] customer my car tech vo she didnt take it to the dealer. She scheduled with safelite. We have the latest technology for the newest vehicles. And we do more replacements and recalibrations than anyone else. Customer thank you so much. Tech dont wait schedule now. Pop music singers safelite repair, safelite replace. My frequent heartburn had me taking antacid after antacid all day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. For one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. One pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. Hi, my names steve. I lost 138 pounds on golon relief, prilosec otc. And i kept it off. Golos changed my life in so many ways. Before, i was over 300 pounds. Now, i literally have the ability to take a shirt off and go Out In The Sun where i would have never done that before. Try golo. It works. For the earliest days of our nation, women have made substantial and lasting contributions and i think the election of women to places of power like political bodies has made a difference. And we are back with Cassidy Hutchinson. We just told the story of how you found Alexander Butterfield in this world, and it occurred to me after i saw your testimony, i too thought about Alexander Butterfield. Because i was in high school when i saw him testify. And i thought, hes still somewhere we can find him. And we tracked him down and he came on the show and he talked about how impressed he was with you when he saw you testify. Hes very modest, as you know, about his own testimony. Says i wasnt brave, they ask me questions, i told the truth. He was much older than you were at the time that he was doing it, and i think was much more clear for him all the way through if i get that subpoena, this is what i have to do. But its so striking to me that someone who did this 50 years ago, speaks to you through this book in effect 50 years after the fact, helps you find your way to do the same thing. And now you give us a book that someones going to pick up this book 50 years from now, 150 years from now, we dont know. Someones going to pick up this book and do the same thing that you did, because of Alexander Butterfield. That was one of the first things alex and i spoke about. So we actually reached out to you and your staff after we saw alex and your program, and this anecdote is not in the book but i will share it with you here. When you had alex on your program, i was in a hotel in atlanta, in my mom texts me saying that you need to turn on lawrence odonnell. And i turned on the tv and also tried to get in touch with alex in different ways but we just kept getting dead ends. And i saw that you had alex on your program, and i just started to cry because i saw the man and i hoped that he had watched my testimony. I try to get in touch with him, and it was just that connection to him that at least i knew that he had seen it. And i felt that connection where if i never got to speak with him, i had that much. Where i hug your capsule of what he said to you that night. The first time that alex and i spoke over zoom, he asked me to promise him that if somebody ever came to me 50 years or however long from now, with a similar proposition or finding themselves in a similar position that we found ourselves in, he asked me to promise them that i would help them. And it was just one of those profoundly but said full circle moments to, because im sure that alex didnt think that 50 years from then that he would have the impact that he had on my life and my decision to come forward. But i hope that 50 years from now we dont have the same issues that were dealing with, corrupt presidency is. But i did promise him that i would, and thats also a big reason that i decided to help the book. Because if i can help one person make that difficult decision, whether its your working in a corrupt presidency and youre afraid to speak out or you want to speak out, or you need to stick up for yourself in somewhere else, another part of your life, the impact that his story had on me, theres more ways that i can fulfill his promise. Anyone in high school or college now whos thinking about going to work in washington needs to read this book. Anyone who has started to work in washington and is in their early twenties had better read this book. Its all there. Alex butterfield gets the last line of this book. Which i have thought about reading on this show, and i dont want to. There is a spoiler. And also because i wouldnt be able to read it without crying, because i can be a crybaby here. So i want to skip that, and in lieu of that, alex sent us a little message today, just for you. Lets look at that. Cassidy, i want to tell you something. I was so impressed, as were others who heard you, when you gave your testimony before congress. Your very effective, and it comes through well and that you or your own person. You said i inspired you, im happy if i did. But i dont think so. I dont think so. Your very much your own person. And you come across wonderfully well. And i think you are and will continue to be an inspiration to other young people. I didnt have the pressures when i testified, that im sure you had. And thats a big factor. But as i said, you did very well. You come across as though youre speaking from the heart. And thats very clear. When you met him, in california, you went out to see him. You should a few tears into that Cashmere Sweater of his. Thank you for that. Alex just has one of those souls that im so fortunate to have him in my life. And it sounds so hokey, but i think we all need to strive to be a little bit more like Alex Butterfield. Somebody who has this upstanding moral integrity and character, and its not just that he came forward and testify truthfully and honorably. But he cares deeply about people. He cares deeply about this country, and alex has helped me in more ways than i can describe. But even in the few times ive had the opportunity and the privilege to spend time with him in california, he is always going to be a part of my heart. We will be right back with more from Cassidy Hutchinson. Y hutchinson have Heart Failure with unresolved symptoms . It may be time to see the bigger picture. Heart failure and seemingly unrelated symptoms like carpal tunnel syndrome. Shortness of breath. And Irregular Heartbeat could mean something more serious, called attrcm a rare, underdiagnosed disease that worsens over time. Sound like you . Call your cardiologist and ask about attrcm. Still living with odors . Get back in there and freshen instantly with febreze air mist. Febrezes Fine Mist Floats longer in the air to fight even your toughest odors. So long stinky smells and hello amazing freshness. Febreze air mist. So none of your testimony has ever been seriously questions, there was some false reporting from trump sources immediately after your testimony saying that, the crazy behavior that you described of donald trump, with his service detail, what he was trying to go to the capitol, never happened. Lets listen to that testimony. When i return to the white house, i walked upstairs toward the chief of staffs office, i noticed mr. Ronaldo lingering outside of the office. Once we had made eye contact, he waved me to go into his office, which was just across the hall from mine. When i went in, he shut the door, and i noticed bobby engle, whos the head of mr. Trump security detail, sitting in a chair, looking somewhat discombobulated, a little lost. I looked at tony, he said, did you effing hear what happened in the big east . No tony i just got back. What happened . Tony proceeded to tell me that when the president got in the beast, he was an impression that from mr. Meadows that the offtherecord movement to the capital was still possible, and likely to happen, and then bobby had more information. So once the president had gotten into the vehicle, with bobby, he thought that they were going up to the capitol, and when bobby had relayed to him were not, we dont have the assets to do it, its not secure, were going back to the west when, the president had very strong, very angry response to that. Tony described him as being irate, the president said something to the effect of, im the president , taking up to the capitol now. To which bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the west wing. The president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel, mr. Engel grabbed his arm, said sir you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. We are going back to the west wing, were not going to the capitol. Mr. Trump then used his free hand to lunge toward bobby engle, and when mr. Ornato had recounted the story to me, he motioned towards his clavicles. Tony were not of them testified under oath to the committee, i do not recall. He said he had no memory of that conversation. You know, lawrence, i find it sort of ironic that we see this pattern emerge in trump world a lot, where we have men whose memories often fail them. I stand by my testimony to the committee, i stand by my testimony provided to the Department Of Justice, i stand by my testimony i stand by everything i described in the book. You say in the book, that the trump funded lawyer who you started with was advising you to say you do not recall, pretty much all the time, even when you did recall. Thats correct. There also was an element of that too, if you dont recall an event fully, or lets not refresher memory on things. But i think, looking at that as a whole, i think thats the experience of a lot of people in trump world, who have trump appointed attorneys. I think if the individual in florida in a maralago case, who has recently switched, according to public reporting, as recently switched counsel from a public trump appointed attorney, to a public attorney. Because that individual was counseled to not recall certain events to protect the president. Its not the job of individuals who have witnessed events its the job of individuals to share their invest with investigators. Thats the only way our Justice System will continue to work. That had a profound impact on why i decided to come forward with more information. I made that choice, i made that conscious choice to come forward. I didnt have to do that. I didnt think that i would be able to live with myself, had i not been able to. But its also because i have a deep belief in our institutions of government, and they only work if the people help them work. And if we fulfill our details. What would you say to those who to codefendants work for him, and are now accused of committing crimes for him that him. Whose lawyers are supplied by donald trump. I would tell them, to think long and hard. I had a conversation with a member of congress, a republican member of congress, we did not serve on the committee. And when i was going through that period of wanting to come forward with more information, i called this member of congress, whos named sam in the book. But i called sam, and i was on the phone with sam, explaining my predicament, and i and sam told me to go look in the mirror. He said, ill stay on the phone with you, ill go look at the mare. I wanted to a mere, he asked me if i liked what i was looking at. Now my physical appearance, did i like the person that was looking back at me. Could i live with a person with the for The Rest Of My Life . Because im the only person that has to live with the decisions and choices that i make. Whether its the two individuals that are mr. Trumps codefendants the case in florida, or its anybody who find themselves innocent similar predicament to me. I dont know it would be the mere test approve pretty effective for me, but just to think long and hard about where your loyalties lie, and who you are, and who you want to be. Do you want to protect somebody who sees you as expendable . Who sees you as just a shield . And thats what donald trump does, he exploits people who are loyal to him. Donald trump exploit people who he knows are vulnerable. Donald trump exploits people who knows are vulnerable and will do what needs to be done to protect him. Donald trump does not have loyalty to anybody but himself. Donald trump will put anybody in his path to help himself get ahead. And i think the people need to understand that, before they go into these trials, because its not too late. Its not too late to do the right thing. Its always the right time to do the right thing. Its not easy, but theres a way to do it, and in my experience, i find that its led me to a more rewarding life, and a point its been difficult. I want sugar quite that. I know i made the right choice, and now that im on the other side, i see the dangers of donald trump, and i see the dangers of what he requires, and this dual sense of loyalty. Its not normal. Its wrong. I think we need to make sure that donald trump cannot continue exploiting a vulnerable americans, whether its people that work for him, or whether its his loyal base of supporters, who he has continuously fooled for the last seven years, and potentially in this next election cycle. The last word, from Cassidy Hutchison, right after this break. Break. Rful cold and flu symptom relief with a honeylicious taste. Because life doesnt stop for a cold. Dayquil honey, the daytime, coughing, aching, stuffy head, fever, honeylicious, power through your day, medicine. This is american infrastructure, a prime target for cyberattacks. But the same aipowered security that protects all of google also defends these services for everyone who lives here. Your heart is the beat of life. If you have Heart Failure, entrust your heart to entresto, a medicine specifically designed for Heart Failure. Entresto is the 1 Heart Failure brand prescribed by cardiologists. 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You are standing with mark meadows, and President Trump says, to his chief of staff, theyve got it wrong, chief how, did this happen . Why didnt we make more calls, we needed to do more, okay. We cant let the stand. The president raged. Mark tried to reassure the president , the president pushed back saying, i dont want people to know we lost, mark. This is embarrassing. So, two things. Make more calls, to whom . About a Supreme Court decision. I wish i had the answer to that question, and if i could walk climb into the psyche of donald trump, if you could, we visit one of the things that made sense in the moment . Or didnt . There are a lot of things that didnt make sense of the moments. Theres a more important evidentiary point thats of great interest to prosecutors. You are standing there, and you hear donald trump say, i dont want people to know we lost, this is embarrassing. In fulton county, georgia, that is very important in evidence against donald trump, its very important evidence against donald trump in jack smiths case. I assume that story was told to the grand jury. To every public its also my transcripts that would be one of the key points, reasons, then you would be called as a witness in those prosecutions . Potentially, yes. Theyve also been several people that have testified on the record to being in Donald Trumps presence where he admitted that he lost the election. There are also several people on the record, to be fair, on both sides, as in my Committee Transcripts as well as other government entities, that sometimes he would admit that he hadnt lost, or that he was questioning whether he lost. Again, i cant climb into his psyche, but it seems pretty clear to me that he knew he lost the election. Mark meadows knew that he lost the election, but they were doing everything they could to try to prove that the election was throwing, somehow. You cant prove that in the election was stolen when it was not stolen. You cant prove an election was stolen when there is it was free and fair, and joe biden was the duly elected president. No one whos ever been on this program has been as close to Kevin Mccarthy as you have been. Your this book shows you are very close to Kevin Mccarthy, on a first name basis, calling on kevin, very friendly. Lets watch what Kevin Mccarthy said after the attack on the Capitol On January 6th . The president bears responsibility from wednesdays attack on congress, by rioters. He should have immediately denounced the mob, when he saw what was unfolding. These facts require immediate action, from President Trump. Except his share of responsibility. Quote the brutal unrest. And ensure president elect biden, is able to successfully begin his term. How did you hear about it and how do you feel about where he is now . I felt proud of kevin in that moment, and i would also like to say that i did continuous work for donald trump, so i would be longer conversation, but i go into that book a lot. My personal struggle with that. That was the kevin that i was proud of, that was the letter that i saw on Kevin Mccarthy. But then a couple weeks later, kevin was down at maralago, with donald trump, seemingly apologizing, and trying to make up with them. Kevin is the most powerful republican in our government, right now. Hes third in line to the presidency. Kevin has an opportunity to stop this, and its kevins responsibility, to not only leading republican conference thats trying time, but its his responsibility to emerge as a leader. Its his responsibility to emerge as a leader for our country, so we can explain to our children how we overcame this. I have faith kevin could do that, if you wanted to. I dont know that he would, but i hope that he would find the courage to do that, because i did have faith in Kevin Mccarthy, and i do respect him. Power is a physical thing, and i would hope that he has that hindsight in this next year. Cassidy hutchison, once again, wiser than the man we worked with in government. Thank you very much for joining us tonight, i cannot thank you enough. The book is enough, by Cassidy Hutchison. Any questions that you out there in the audience still have our answered in this book. Wered in this Book Fighting Power and double the scrubbing power. For a no rewash clean. And a cabinet ready shine. Upgrade to cascade platinum plus. Dare to dish differently. Tech cracked windshield on your new car . Upgrade to cascade platinum plus. Bring it to safelite. My customer was enjoying her new car, when her windshield cracked. [gasp] customer my car tech vo she didnt take it to the dealer. She scheduled with safelite. 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