Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning 20240703

Frasiers left hook. He connected. Feet off the ground, flying through the air, left hook, boom. Really hit him hard. Before we even got to a trial. He said we know fraud when we see it. Weve looked at all the evidence, this is fraud. There will be a version of the trial maybe starting next week. Well get more details in a minute. The judge could not have been more clear in his ruling yesterday that what donald trump and the organization perpetrated over many, many years, in his eyes, is fraud. Yeah, part of the case brought by new York Attorney general Letitia James. Well get to that in just a moment. Thats our top story. Also ahead, the History Making Stop on the picket line for President Biden. Well show you what he had to say to striking autoworkers who are demanding a significant pay raise. Plus, senator bob menendez is refusing to resign despite calls from 2 dozen colleagues to do so following his indictment on bribery charges. You wouldnt believe the republicans who are now defending him. It seems like in some ways both sides might be making this about trump, but, yeah, really interesting. Meanwhile, House Republicans are making some progress on a package of spending bills, but congress is still on a path to a government shutdown. And well have a preview of tonights republican president ial debate taking place at the reagan library. The second showdown for the candidates will not feature the frontrunner in the polls t. Donald trump simply will not show up at the debate. He apparently has a grudge toward the Ronald Reagan president ial library as well, which means he has a grudge a lot of grudges. A grudge about every republican institution, every governmental institution, every military institution. A lot of grudges going around for a guy who wants to run a country he seems to hate. Yeah, i mean, the reagan president ial library out in california is sacred ground for republicans, as you know, and they host debates every cycle and President Trump has been in a fight with them. He views himself, as always, having been wronged in some way by the reagan family, and will not show up. Theres a political strategy to that. He may not need to show up. He didnt need to show up last one and is still up 35, 40 points on his closest challenger. I do want to briefly say off the top of the show, willie, we saw the Passing Yesterday of one of the greatest Baseball Players of all time. Certainly the greatest third baseman of all time, a guy that when i was a little kid, i got the chance to lean over, meet, and get an autograph from the stands. Brooks robinson. Just an absolute superstar at the baltimore with the Baltimore Orioles. And as tom bosswell wrote for the Washington Post, in 1993 when he was admitted into the hall of fame, one of the greatest ballplayers ever, even better as a man. Yeah, and if you look at his career, joe well have barnicle and lupica break this down 23 seasons with the same team. Thats something you dont see very often, certainly not anymore. Theres a picture going around yesterday of him standing at third base with all his gold glove awards, and its preposterous, there are 16 trophies. He won 16 consecutive gold gloves, jonathan lemire, played in 18 allstar games. They called him the hoover because he vacuumed up anything that came even close to him at third base. The Greatest Defensive Third Baseman in the history of the game. As joe said, by all accounts, one of the best guys around baseball. A complete class act and the tributes came pouring out yesterday, an American League mvp, won a world series mvp, was a World Champion and, without question, the Greatest Defensive Third Baseman of all time, and arguably the greatest defensive player of all time. You simply couldnt get the ball past him. Jen, the tributes pouring out. A sad day at a time the orioles are on the verge of the playoffs. Its sad but sort of poignant. You think of the orioles, you think of cal ripken. We are the proud owners of a signed baseball in our home. Coming up, we have so much going on today. We begin with a major ruling in a civil case against donald trump and his family business. In a 35page decision yesterday, manhattan judge Arthur Engoron found the former president and his two oldest sons and their companies liable for fraud. According to the judge, the trumps spent years inflating the value of their assets and Financial Statements given to banks and insurance companies. The ruling is tied to a case brought by new York Attorney general, Letitia James, in 2019, which was scheduled to go to a bench trial early next week. Yesterday the judge effectively decided he didnt need a trial to determine the trumps were liable. The judge wrote in his ruling, quote this is a Fantasy World, not the real world, and admonished the former president for his overvaluing his holdings by as much as 2. 2 billion. In one example trump overestimated the size of his manhattan apartment, which he spent years living in, by 19,000 feet, or 200 . Judge engoron called that absurd writing, quote, a discrepancy of this order of magnitude by a Real Estate Developer, sizing up his own living space of decades, can only be considered fraud. Willie . Im going to have to go back. This is a good reminder. A size issue. Crowds. My 21,000foot condo, i may be off by about 19,000 feet. Maybe i need to go back and sort of reestimate that. What . Slightly off on those numbers, and thats just one of the properties were going to talk about here. Next weeks bench trial will proceed so the judge can determine the size now of the punishment. Attorney general james sued for 250 million. The judge granted her one of other punishments to cancel the Business Certificates that allow many of trumps new York Properties to operate. This means trump could lose control of his new York Properties, in addition to other real estate including trump tower in midtown manhattan. The trump lose their appeals, they could be banned from ever doing business again in New York State. This statement yesterday, the former president s attorney called the decision, quote, completely disconnected from the facts and governing law. The judge also sanctioned trumps attorney 7,500 apiece yesterday for making legal arguments that had already been rejected. Trump himself reacted to the ruling with a series of posts on social media attacking the judge, as you can imagine, who hes suing, and the new York Attorney general. Lets bring in former u. S. Attorney senior fbi official Chuck Rosenberg, investigations correspondent tom winter, and reporter on the Investigations Desk of the New York Times, russ buttner. Russ, can you boil down for our audience whats going on here and exactly what trump did, alleged to have done here, and why the judge viewed it as fraud . Well, its if you read the documents filed in the case and the judges decision, its a very clear example of misleading the banks that hes presenting his documents to in a fraudulent way. Hes not just overstating values, as he said. Hesctually withHolding Information that they have found they know themselves to be true from the banks. Theyre taking theyve had assessments done of the property that show one value. They arepresenting another value. There are documents filed they cant raise the rent on certain apartment buildings, but they act like they could sell those as condos with no regulations on them at all. They have properties where they cant actually develop it, but the recent evaluations say they could develop it. This isnt just playing with the numbers, as the Trump Organization has said. This is them actually with Holding Information in a fraudulent way and increasing the value of these things. The judge will be the finder of facts in this case when it does go to trial. He is essentially the jury, and he said theres been enough information presented on this first count, really the most important count, to find them essentially guilty and to then move on from damages. Well get to trial on the remaining six counts. Tom, donald trump has exaggerated his entire life, well before he got into politics. He would inflate his sense of worth, talk about his apartment building. My favorite example is trump tower is actually a 58 Story Building but when another building went up a little tower, he renumbered the floors on the elevators to claim it was 68 floors. There are real consequences, and it seems to be a chance gravity he could lose his ability to do business in New York State, which is where his empire is located, where trump tower is, where he has several golf courses. How realistic is that to happen . What would that mean . I think at this point its very realistic. Well have to find out what the Appellate Courts have to say and trump has vowed to appeal. So far they have not taken kindly to his arguments in New York State. The Attorney General absolutely has the authority to do so if upheld by the appellate division, the First Appellate Division in the state of new york. Thats number one. Whats interesting are the other legal arguments addressed by the judge. The trumps have said with respect to the financial documents, the statements of Financial Condition and trump talks about it in his deposition with the Attorney General himself saying, effectively, do your own homework. Im saying im worth 50 billion, but its up to you to go back and look at these various properties and these various documents and determine whether or not you believe that. Were not making any sort of guarantees as to the picture were painting here. The judge said, look, if you look at new york case law, its clear that it doesnt matter how sophisticated the party is thats looking at these documents, who is involved with it, if its a bunch of banks, a bunch of people who count these beans for a living, if you will. It doesnt matter under New York State law. The bottom line is you tried to defraud them by presenting these statements of Financial Conditions that he says, the judge says, not based on any sort of reality in a number of instances. On top of that, trump and his kids have repeatedly said, look, nobody has lost any money on our loans. Banks have made tens of millions of interest. The judge pointed out something interesting. He says, look, if you look at this, the banks would have gotten tens of millions more in interest because they would never have given up the loan terms you were able to receive. I can go up to sixth avenue and take up a collection for the banks. The banks do have investors. They do have shareholders and institutions. As my colleague has pointed out the last real Financial Institution to give the trumps loans, the former cfos son, weisselberg, his son was the one who put forward those loans and able to make the financial transactions. Interesting. Chuck rosenberg and the kaleidoscope of issues, including the 91 counts and four indocuments, stormy daniels, defamation, where does this stand and what are the real consequences, if any, that this former president might see imminently . Its a significant case, mika, and a significant ruling by the judge. Often you see in these opinions that the language a court uses is rather muted, its rather polite. Its rather understated. Not here. I think the judge was outraged, and rightfully toe so, the language of the values the trumps put on was fantasy, untethered to reality. So where does it stack up . Important to note this is a civil case not a criminal case. And so even though the judge found fraud, widespread, rampant fraud in the valuations, no one is going to jail because of this case. You cant go to jail on a civil case. But to tom winters point and to russ point, the business can lose its ability to function, to operate in New York State. And so the consequences, while theyre not criminal and theyre not jail, can be dire for the Trump Organization and for its properties. So where does it stack up . A significant finding and a significant case by a judge who is outraged at the way the trump folks have conducted themselves, but it will not result in jail time because its a civil case. So, joe, and i guess jim, on the Seriousness Chuck talks about, and also this is a case that the American People can understand because its something trump has been known for, yesterday we were talking so much about how joe biden needs to get out there and really punch at these legal issues trump is facing or maybe the democrats, but doesnt it make more sense when judges do it . Isnt that where it should come from . And when you read this, i think its impactful and it doesnt become have you read the Mueller Report . Have you read any of the Impeachment Reports . Its piling up. Have you read any of the indictments against donald trump . Im saying, its their job people arent going to be reading. Swing voters arent going to be reading a New York State judges ruling. There are just unbelievably damaging statements there. You know hes going to truth about it, or whatever his stupid platform is, start spouting off. This will get to people. Letitia james has been looking at trump for years now. Trump has definitely talked about her. This will get out there, and this fits his game that hes been accused of all along, and thats all about the size of things. He always overblows the size of things that he owns crowds. Or things that he does. Lets talk about the fact that, again, what should the Biden Campaign do . Im not saying the president should do it. You know what, a judge, jen, has found this guy guilty of fraud. Another judge in New York State said he raped e. Jean carroll, found him guilty of sexual assault. A jury found him liable of defamation. Thats what we already know. Hes already come down the pipe, you have the United States case against donald trump for stealing Nuclear Secrets, for stealing war plans against iran. You have in the state of georgia, Another State Run by republicans. Youve got him and 20 of his associates up for trying to steal an election there. All of this adds up but it needs to be boiled down and put out to voters. We cant expect federal judges to do it or state judges to do it or anyone tolls do it but the Biden Campaign. The question is, are they able to do that . Do they have the ability to punch back . Sure. Look what they did in 2020 and tomorrow the president is giving a speech is it tomorrow . Its wednesday, right . Thursday hes giving a speech in arizona thats billed as a Democracy Speech. I think this is probably linked to the response for the Republican Debate tonight and also looming shutdown. I think theyre really good at this. The question is, and the uaw thing yesterday is a good example of this sort of choices that they have to make. If the president had gone into michigan and all he had done is attack trump, there are workers a lot of uaw workers are probably going to vote for donald trump or certainly voted for him in 2020 and 16. Joe biden has a really good argument to make with that. You can do two things at once. Isnt it even more effective to have him with a Bullhorn Doing that on the picket lines while his campaign is unleashing one video after another video after another video just pummeling Donald Trumps legal woes . One after another. The trump people are doing it. Theyre viciously attacking ron san tis, to use Ai Technology to attack ron desantis. Theyre doing it around the clock. You would think the white house would be able to do two things at once. John fetterman did it when he ran in the senate. Thats what the president the United States should be doing. His campaign operation, i dont know if everybody is over 80 in his campaign operation, but his campaign operation, they need to put stuff out that makes people go every morning, oh, my god, did you see what the Biden Campaign put out yesterday . We never say that. The media is siloed. You can have the president do one thing, the Campaign Something else, and the uaw workers hearing the president in michigan arent receiving the stuff thats siloed in nondigital. Sure you should do both. Thats what campaigns are for, and the general election started, and trump is acting that way and the Biden Campaign should, too. Russ, back to the business side of this, from the politics what is your sense having covered this so closely about where this goes from here, a lot of talk of donald trump effectively being booted out of new york city as a Real Estate Developer, trump tower, the properties up in westchester that he has. Is that realistic he could be stripped of his ability to do business in the city and the state . Thats the big question today. Some lawyers have called this a corporate Death Penalty that the judge has ordered these llcs, control of these properties, to be shut down. But these are not just his new york entities. Ejt holdings controls most of his golf courses around the country and the world. Theres one that starts with a 401 that owns the chicago tower. If you dissolve these entities, thats the show. Thats the whole thing. He will fight this until the end. Im sure it will go to New York States highest court and probably back down a couple of times, but this is if its as simple as what the judge states here and it holds, it is a very serious few years he has ahead of him that could end it all. The trump adult sons, don jr. And eric, involved. Eric put out a statement attacking the judge, of course, and saying he values maralago eric trump does at 1 billion. Thats the number he put on it. So well leave that to the realtors to assess that. What is your sense of what comes next . Donald trump and his team, like all these trials will try to delay, kick the can down the road a little bit. What does it look like if the bench trial starts next week . Bench trial, not a jury trial. The key thing that needs to be decided here are a couple issues. First off, the judge did not decide on the issues and will wait for the bench trial to decide whether it falsified business documents. We know for the manhattan d. A. s case they were convicted of doing that. This particular suit goes beyond. No criminal penalties, as chuck pointed out, but that could factor into what happens here from a civil suit perspective and then, of course, this disgorgement, the quarter of a billion dollars, that the new York Attorney general is seeking. What happens with that . How much of that is actually imposed and what does that ultimately mean . Thats the Big Question Mark for the Trump Organization and to russ point, what that means for donald trump and his assets and his personal wealth going into this election and going on for the rest of his life and the trump family. As difficult as this ruling was, the fact that the money and the assets could be taken away from them, that real danger lurks around the corner. Its interesting, voters all have different ways and Different Things that get to them, and i personally think Letitia James was on to something when she did this. A lot of Business Owners who are Trump Supporters but are slowly going, is it too much . They pay their taxes. They play by the rules. They dont lie about the size of their Hardware Stores or shops or homes, and reading this could be more insulting than some of the other things that could be, you know what, theyre too busy for it, too focused. He did overvalue im not saying they dont get it at all. Im just saying its not personal. This is personal. This is what trump this has been his game, exaggerating to rip people off, and most American Voters are good people who play by the rules and love this country. Chuck, im curious, in terms of all the legal challenges facing donald trump, what are we looking at next down the line . Well, if you want to talk about all of the legal challenges, mika, we will need a couple more hours this morning. There are four pending indictments in new york and elsewhere and who knows what tomorrow will bring for the trump team. Interesting in terms of valuations, and i know that doesnt sound like something that would go together, interest and valuations, but if you read the opinion, in one instance the judge cited the fact he overvalued his maralago property, if you compare it to what the County Assessor thought it was worth, by 2,300 . That is not a rounding error, they didnt Pay Attention to detail, its that they committed an egregious fraud on the banks and maybe the banks arent sympathetic victims. They have investors and those investors are entitled to their banks being given full and fair and free information and that didnt happen. Lots of legal challenges for mr. Trump. The most significant are the ones that can put him in jail, the two federal indictments, the two state indictments, one in georgia and one in new york. If youre lying awake at night staring at the ceiling its the pending criminal cases. But from a Business Risk perspective, the fact they could lose the right to do business in new york, that they could lose their Business Certificates, is significant for this company as the judge pointed out, built on lies and fantasy in many ways. Thank you very much and russ buettner, thank you all very much for your reporting and insight this morning. It is a big story. It is. Still ahead on morning joe, well show you joe bidens message for striking autoworkers in michigan as he became the first sitting president to join a picket line. Well speak with Elissa Slotkin on the president s historic visit to her state. Also ahead, former white house aide, Cassidy Hutchinson will be our guest with her Insider Account of the chaos in the final days of the Trump Presidency. Youre watching morning joe. [man struggles] i need some sleep. [man relieved] if you struggle with cpap, you should check out inspire. Inspire. Sleep apnea innovation. Learn more and view Important Safety Information at inspiresleep. Com when my doctor gave me breztri for my copd things changed for me. Breztri gave me better breathing, symptom improvement, and reduced flareups. Breztri wont replace a Rescue Inhaler for sudden breathing problems. It is not for asthma. Tell your doctor if you have a Heart Condition or high Blood Pressure before taking it. Dont take breztri more than prescribed. Breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. Call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. Ask your doctor about breztri. With fastsigns, create custom graphics that get tails and tongues wagging. Fastsigns. Make your statement. Are you still struggling with your bra . Its time for you to try knix. Makers of the worlds comfiest wireless bras. For revolutionary support without underwires, and sizes up to a gcup, find your new favorite bra today at knix. Com thursday night football on prime. Its on. Thursday night football is on, as the Detroit Lions take on the green bay packers. Stream thursday night football. Only on prime. Dwr wont you resign, sir . Why were there gold bars there . Thats our own ryan nobles trying to get an answer out of senator rob menendez. As the number of Democratic Senators calling for his Resignation Swells to half the senate chamber. His wife nadine and three others including conspiracy to commit bribery. The new jersey lawmaker and his wife both insist they did nothing wrong. At least 24 Senate Democrats called on menendez to step down including his long time friend cory booker. Booker praised menendez as a person and friend but called his refusal to resign a miake. Stepping down is not an admission of guilt but an acknowledgement that Holding Public office often demands tremendous sacrifices at great personal cost. Senator menendez has made these sacrifices in the past to serve and, in this case, must do so again. I believe stepping down is best for those Senator Menendez has spent serving. Menendez was forced to step down as chairman of the Foreign Relations committee after the indictment was issued last week, but he has been defiant to give up his senate seat. Menendez claimed nearly half a Million Dollars prosecutors say they found stuffed in envelopes in a search of his home was money he had withdrawn regularly over decades. Willie . Always a bad day when reporters are yelling through closing elevator doors, what about the gold bars . Your house . Senator menendez has been getting support, though, from across the aisle. Some republicans coming to his defense against those calls for him to step down. One is senator tom cotton who argued a jury should decide the senators fate. In a post on social media, senator cotton wrote in part, he should be judged by jurors not by democratic politicians who view him as inconvenient to their hold on power. Senator marco rubio echoed that posting in part, quote, in american guilt is decided by a jury not politicians and fear of their party losing a senate seat. J. D. Vance, susan collins, ted cruz are in the wait and see chorus saying its up to the courts and the new jersey voters to decide the lawmakers fate. Jen, the dam broke yesterday when cory booker, menendezs fellow senator a well written statement. We were on the air yesterday around this time, four, i think, democrats called for him to resign. Stabenow wasnt there yet. The argument from tom cotton, democrats are worried about their grip on power and it could be they hold their colleagues to a different standard. Its a rare moment of consistency for republican senators. Normally one set of rules for trump and say everything he does is fine, and one set of rules for Democratic Senators. Theyre being consistent. Booker was the model, Have Public Trust, just about the behavior and what it shows in terms of his judgment is enough to say that he should step aside. Whether he he may never do that. I think that the only thing democrats can do is say what should happen here. Thats enough to be living up to the standard. It doesnt mean an admission of guilt. You cant serve the people of new jersey anymore. I think well get more of his colleagues, that it is time to go. Certainly if they were not to do that, if they were to remain silent, they are trying to say trump is under other indictments, is not fit to serve. The same standard has to apply. Menendez is stubborn and said he would hold on to his seat, a possible plea deal. I dont know that we should listen to those calls but expect him to pick up in the days ahead. Coming up, the first Impeachment Inquiry Hearing surrounding President Biden is set for tomorrow, but the republican lawmaker leading the hearing says it wont cover any new ground. Morning joe will be right back. Okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. Yay woo hoo ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, nutrients for immune health. And ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. what was it like before viasat Satellite Internet . Two words not fun. Log off. Ive got homework no way its still my turn we couldnt share the internet. Times up. sharings caring but now with viasats new plans, we have plenty of internet. For everyone except you babe. Youre being rude. More data. Faster speeds. Available where you live. Learn more about our plans at viasat. Com. Vo just as the middle class is getting back on its feet. Maga extremists want to pull the rug out from under us threatening to shut down the government if they dont get their way. Magas demands eliminate health care for up to 21 million americans. Kill thousands of clean energy jobs. And even cut Social Security. All just to give yet another tax cut to big oil and other huge corporations. Tell congress to stop the extreme maga agenda from crushing middle class families. A live picture of the white house, the sun just starts to peek at 6 39 in the morning. Last week President Biden announced the creation of the White House Office of Gun Violence Prevention to be led by Vice President kamala harris. The president wrote that he was determined to send a clear message about how important this issue is to me and to the country. Among its first directives will be to ensure federal Gun Safety Law as being fully implemented and will seek ways to stop increasing violence nationwide without any additional action from congress. This morning the Nonprofit Organization Sandy Hook Promise is unveiling its latest Public Service announcement underscoring how important it is to take threats of gun violence seriously titled, just joking. It features a lumme of renowned comedians who deliver the sobering message that threats are not jokes. Here now an exclusive first look. So the first day of school, the last day of your lives. I want to kill people. Bang, bang, youre dead. I set the date. You are going to regret not talking to me. You have no idea what im talking about, but you will. Fair warning, stay home tomorrow if you want to live. Today is the day. Today is the day. The day my massacre begins. Solve you guys are all right. Dont go to school tomorrow. I mean it. After all the name calling i want to go down as the best School Shooter in history. Joining us now the cofounder and ceo of the Sandy Hook Promise foundation. Sandy lost her son dylan in 2012. Nicole, its nice to see you again. Tell us about that psa and why people need to take these threats sometimes people can dismiss, the kid is popping off on social media, dont worry about it, why this is such an important message. For exactly the reasons you just said. A lot of times when we first launched the Say Something program, we teach kids to recognize the Warning Signs but weve often heard from them they dont want to report something because they dont think its serious. Theyre putting it out on social media, they are just joking. We want people to understand when you see a threat of violence, you have to take it seriously. All of the threats in the psa were made by real School Shooters and theres a longer version that attributes each of those quotes to the different shootings. It could have lifealtering consequences. People have started to take tetchers, administrators, even kids, i hear and see, are taking it more seriously where 12 years ago before sandy hook, come on, if that turns into something deadly, i want to be the one to have stopped it. Young people dont want to be passive bystanders. When someone needs help, they want to reach in, we teach them and were seeing the tangible evidence. When a child receives programming, they are more likely to take action. The kids that have reported things through our Anonymous Reporting System have stopped 15 credible planned shooting plots. Those threats you saw in the psa that theyre tipping in saying this person is going to do something and i need help now. Nicole, how do you assess the progress made since sandy hook on this issue, parkland and the tragedy in uvalde, as willie just mentioned, the white house started this new office to try to prevent gun violence. There was a bipartisan bill, modest, but the first in a long time. Where do you think we are and how hopeful are you . Each step is a step toward a safer future and we shouldnt ignore the cumulative effects. We see great things happen in states, in the white house, and a movement has been really growing. This is an issue i care about, im going to vote on and you need to do something. I work for a Communications Director when the shooting happened and your son was killed, and president obama said that was the worst day of his presidency. I know a close second when the senate failed to pass legislation to deal with passing Background Checks in the senate after the shooting, and he and have vice President Biden had to walk into the Roosevelt Room where you were and other parents to say, no, the senate is not going to do anything, nothing will happen, another friend of ours who lost his son, daniel, his 18th Birthday is today, started this, really have gotten a lot done. Its scientific. You need to address that jokes are a threat, what resources do you have for people as part of sandy hooks promise that will help outside of Government Action . There are a lot of sources that show what the Warning Signs are, so its great for having a conversation, a parent to have a conversation with their child about these are the things you should be looking for. If someone is saying these things, posting these things, Say Something to me or another trusted adult. Its amazing resources for schools. Weve had our programs in over 26,000 schools across the country so far reaching over 21 million youth and adults, and thats how you have an impact, teaching people how do you recognize the signs, and then how do you take action . And then we support that with all of the policy work as well. We stand in awe of you when we watch you every time you join us that youve turned your unimaginable grief into this activism over the last decade. I think its important to point out, sometimes theres futility in this country, there are more guns than people, theres only so much we can do, but there has been a ton of progress made in the last decade. How do you wake up every morning and say this is a fight worth having . We can do better . Its a fight worth having because people are still dying and, sadly, the amount of gun violence and School Shootings is still increasing, and i simply dont want to continue to meet parents who have lost their children in shootings. So this is something im going to continue to do for dylan, for my surviving son jake, and for all children. Joe, nicole and i were talking as she sat down, just this month the class, that First Grade Class at sandy hook, are seniors. This is their last day of high school, and so many kids like dylan were denied the opportunity to have all these birthdays but their senior year in high school. And, like nicole said, this continues every day. It happens day to more students, to more children, to more grandmoms, to so many other people. Nicole, i wanted to underline what willie said. We have seen Legislaive Progress over the last decade, even as we were all shocked after sandy hook by the political inaction. So we are moving in the right Direction Legislatively over time, and i think with attitudes over time, but, as you said, people are still dying. I saw a statistic not so long ago that showed the number of killings by guns have actually gone up by, i think, 50 in the decade since sandy hook. Its shocking. I think at the moment in the u. S. Were having two Mass Shootings every day. These are horrible numbers and there are families and communities suffering trauma for the rest of their lives. We are making progress. Its slow progress, but we are continuing to push forward, and we will continue to push forward until this is not the epidemic that we have anymore. Any kel, people want to get information about some of the resources you provide, whats the best place to find it . Go to our website, sandyhookpromise. Org, learn the signs, how to bring the program to your school, how to have conversations with your children or friends. Its important everyone gets involved. We all have a job to do when it comes to taking Warning Signs seriously. Cofounder of the sandy hook foundation, thank you for being here and for your continuing courage. As i said, we are in awe of you. Still ahead this morning, donald trump allegedly lied to insurers and defrauded banks, and now a judge says hes been doing that for about a decade. Well get more reporting about the major fraud ruling against the former president , plus, quote, lets not sleep walk into another Trump Presidency. The title a new piece from vanity fair with what is at stake. Also ahead, well speak with Cassidy Hutchinson. What else shes revealing about the disarray during the final days of the Trump White House in her new book. Youre watching morning joe. And get a website. Im at a point now where ive outgrown my house. Growing up, every me id get out of the shower, i would itch. My First Experience with goat milk soap, it kinda was like a light bulb moment. Tiktok is a fantastic platform for diy. 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Golos changed my life in so many ways. Before, i was over 300 pounds. Now, i literally have the ability to take a shirt off and go Out In The Sun where i would have never done that before. Try golo. It works. We have news now out of north korea, the rogue nation has decided to expel the 23yearold soldier travis king who illegally crossed into the country during a tour in july, according to state media, Korean Central News Agency. The alleged king has harbored ill feelings over Inhumane Treatment and Racial Discrimination within the u. S. Army and was disillusioned about the unequal u. S. Society. Kcna did not specify how, when, or to where king would be expelled. Well continue to fellow the story throughout the morning. Coming up, well take a look at President Bidens visit to a Picket Line Yesterday and what it could mean for negotiations between the auto workers and detroits big three. Well also discuss the strike itself, and much more with democratic congresswoman Elissa Slotkin. Were going to continue following this story, this legal ruling out of new york that may actually get donald trump evicted. Wow. From trump tower. Attorney general Letitia James brought part of this, this is the result, the judge saying no trial necessary. Hes already guilty of fraud. Well be right back. If you struggle with cpap. [man struggles]. You should check out inspire. No mask. No hose. Just sleep. Learn more and view Important Safety Information at inspiresleep. Com that first time you take a step back. I made that. With your very own online store. I sold that. And you can manage it all in one place. I built this. And it was easy, with a partner that puts you first. Godaddy. vo no matter who you are there are times it can be tough to be yourself with a partner that puts you first. When you have severe asthma. Triggers can pop up Out Of Nowhere and lead to an asthma attack. But no matter what type of severe asthma you have tezspire can help you be you. 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This is such an across the board loss for donald trump for his lawyers for his family members, for his chief Financial Officer allen weisselberg, im sure there will be appeals but its hard to see how this doesnt spell the end of donald trump the businessman in new york. Former assistant u. S. Attorney for the district of columbia Glenn Kirschner reacting to that major ruling against donald trump. Much more ahead, welcome back to morning joe. I wonder, if they take away, like, trump tower, like, maybe donny, you know, hes a rich guy, or ratner, maybe one of our friends can buy that, they can call it, you know i wouldnt deutch towers, can you imagine that . Deutch towers, or ratner you just i think bloomberg towers. Given donnys taste he wouldnt have to redecorate. He likes the big gaudy, the mirrors, the gold, the lion statues, i could see donny in trump tower. Literally can walk straight in there, look around and go, im good, right, the only difference is as is. Movein the ready. Yeah, hell just go, as is. Fully furnished. Instead of the guys with the coat and ties and everything, all the Security Guards will be really buffed and theyll be wearing the baby gap black tshirts. With the sleeves here with an unnatural out of season tan is what youre looking for, yeah. Exactly. Oh. You know, its just this it is wednesday, september 27th, and jonathan lemire, Jen Paul Mary still with us. Deutch towers. Joining the conversation. We have Special Correspondent at vanity fair host of the fast applicants podcast, Molly John Fast and lets get right to yesterdays no, joe. No. Before we do this uhoh. Weve got molly here. Yes, we do, which is why i would like molly, were going to get to your column in a second. I just want to say, the timing of it was really impeccable because i was talking a lot of times i say, hey, mika, you remember when i talked about such and such yesterday and she goes no, you never said that. I dont listen often, but, you know, he talks, and talks, so do you remember when i talked to you about how the media didnt cover the horrible things yes. That people were calling Cassidy Hutchinson. Yes. And alyssa fora its a fire hose of shocking things that come out of this former president s mouth and his administration and the things theyve done. Its very hard to keep up with them. The thing is, though, just over the past weekend, molly, as you point out, and again well get to the whole thing, but just the timing, i think, is great. Because i think a lot of americans are thinking this. He threatened or talked about executing the chairman of the joint chiefs because the chairman of the joint chiefs didnt go along with overthrowing the federal government. He talked about how he was going to try to take nbc off the air because he didnt like some of their political coverage. And hes already said im going to take all of the fecs or what is it . Who runs us . Fcc. Fcc, there you go. Ive got my Alphabet Soup going today. Hes going to take the fcc governing power inside the white house. So, he would hes promising, i have the power to do this, i will do and then, you know, Cassidy Hutchinson and, again, alyssa farah and others. All of these women, you have people that worked in the administration, that are saying such horrid, and retch ed things about suggesting, you know, using sexually degrading terms toward all of them. Nobody says a word. Yeah. Its just like, in any other age, if somebody had called a woman a whore because she actually was a whistleblower, that person would be drummed out of society, polite society, and would never return. Now its just a collective yawn. Yeah, no, i mean, trump is the stuff hes posting on truth social this weekend was the kind of thing you would never have a political on earth one you would never have a political career after posting such stuff. But for some reason this Republican Party, you just i mean, the question is, why are we not seeing members of congress, why are we not seeing republican candidates, and also thats right. I would take it a step further, why are journalists not knocking on the door of tommy tuberville, saying, tommy, are you okay with this . Thats right, no, for sure. And there are Certain Networks that dont even cover this as news, and it is. It would be. Wouldnt it . It should be. It actually is news, and youre talking they ignore it. You talk about republican senators, we were talking about this yesterday, i believe, and the fact that Mitch Mcconnell was threatened, and donald trump was inciting violence against Mitch Mcconnell, talking about his death wish in all caps. If that had happened at any point before Donald Trumps election you would have every republican senator, and every democratic senator lining up in a press conference, and condemning that person. Something has changed. Im telling you donald trump has changed everything. He has. These are norms that would never happen, and i know, i served, i was there, and i saw time and again, people that didnt agree on anything coming together when somebody said something racist, or misogynistic or something bitterly personal against another member people would come together and say were not going to get stuff done here if were all shooting at each other. There has been a decline, though. Massive decline. The beginning of trumps presidency, the tweet, the face shaming of me, democrats, republicans, it trended, people said no, this was it was news. They actually were you went after a woman there were republicans that were critical. Absolutely. No more. And there has been a complete decline in our humanity, in our politics, where yeah. Things dont matter anymore. No. And for women its major because were sliding back on so many levels, in terms of our rights and our respect in a civil society. Were going to talk about mollys piece more in just a moment. We do have to get to yesterdays major ruling, in a civil case against donald trump and his family business. In a 35page Decision Manhattan judge Arthur Ingran found President Trump and his two holdest sons liable for fraud. Given to banks and insurance companies, the ruling is tied to a case brought by new York Attorney general Letitia James in 2019, which was scheduled to go to a bench trial early next week. Yesterday, the judge effectively decided he didnt need a trial. Why is that . To determine that trumps reliable. He just said trumps reliable. The judge wrote in a ruling this is the Fantasy World, not the real world, and admonished the former president for overvaluing his holdings by as much as 2. 2 billion. Thats wild. In one example trump overestimated the size of his own manhattan apartment, which he spent years living in, by 19,000 feet, or that would be 200 . The place he lived . Yeah. He actually inflated the size. Was about 200 off. Heudge called that absurd writing,s quote, a Discrepancy Ofhis order of magnitude by a Real Estate Developer sizing up his own living space of decades can only be considered fraud, thus no need for a trial. Next week the bench trial will proceed, though, so the judge can determine the size of the punishment. Attorney general james sued trump for 250 million, and the judge has already granted her one of the other major punishments she sought, to cancel the Business Certificates that allow many of trumps new York Properties to operate. This means trump could soon lose control of his new York Properties in addition to other real estate, including trump tower in midtown manhattan. If the trumps lose their appeals they could also be banned from ever doing business in New York State again. In a statement yesterday the former president s attorney called the decision, quote, completely disconnected from the facts and governing law. Id be really careful if i were the lawyers here because the judge already sanctioned trumps attorneys, 7,500 apiece so far for making legal arguments that had already been rejected and just arguing things that were not Attorney General Le Tisha James brought it with this. Everybody knew he was doing this, knew he was exaggerating his net worth, knew he was exaggerating the size of his holdings. Knew all of this, just like he exaggerated the size of his crowds, the size of his everything. But in this case, it is really telling that this morning over the first 12 hours, over 78 hour show every expert weve talked to has said, judging by the jungs language, it is quite possible that donald trump will be evicted from trump towers, will be evicted from his wall street property, will be evicted from his west chester property, will be stopped from being able to do business in the state of new york again. Now, listen, theres a long way to go, there are appeals that are there, ive just been struck by how many people who have been following the case from the beginning saying the judges opinion yesterday suggests that all of those remedies for the state are on the table and quite possible. Yeah, and how extraordinary that would be for the guy who grew up in greens, made it in manhattan, built the building, always wanted the love and affection of manhattan and new york city, to have all that taken away, he built that in the 80s and the 90s and tried to rebuild it again later. We will see. But it is, as you say, on the table. Lets bring in former u. S. Attorney barbara mcquaid. Barbara, theres a lot in there as we comb through the details of the judges ruling and what donald trump has alleged to have done here. What is your big takeaway . What is the specific crime the judge said that fraud, we know, but specifically what did donald trump do here . Well, its not a crime, its a civil matter, but it is a violation of the law, and the law says that you must keep accurate records, including these documents that donald trump was submitting called statement of Financial Condition, basically a statement of worth and he used it to obtain loans and to obtain insurance. Its important that those be truthful and accurate, i think this is a place where Donald Trumps propensity r untruthfulness caught up with him, it matters when you make representations to Financial Institutions that you are accurate in those things, and what the judge found here is that these assessments werent just inaccurate, they were wildly overblown, and that by doing so he engaged in fraud, he got loans he might not otherwise have received, he got insurance coverage, he would not otherwise have received, because those institutions are entitled to a truthful statement so that they can assess whether to give a loan, and by what terms. So, barbara, this is pretty remarkable that a judge just went ahead and decided this ahead of the bench trial scheduled for next week. But those proceedings are still going to go ahead based on punishment. Give us a preview as to how you think that will go and what sort of payment trump might be forced to make. Yeah, so not all that surprising that the judge decided this preliminarily because as he wrote in his opinion this is a documents case, and so its not going to make much difference what a witness comes in and says things. He can look at the assessments, he can look at the documents and make this decision that the you know, they said theyre apples and in fact theyre oranges. Thats how he made this decision. Still, i think the actual valuation of these properties does matter. He gave estimates of the overvaluation. What well hear next week is probably some not the most sexy or exciting testimony, but testimony about the value of these properties so that he can properly success what these valuations were, but ultimately the penalty here could be the appointment of a receiver. He has already cancelled these certificates, so that these companies will no longer be able to do business in new york. They will have to be sold off, and the individuals involved, donald trump, era, trump injury and others will be banned from doing business in the state of new york for five years. I hear about this, and, away earned, barbara, about the impact on trumps mental state, like we keep hearing hes worried about going to jail and his worth questioned, threatening not being able to do business, possibly actually getting evicted, is there any i mean, i know theres not a precedent for this happening to a former president. Is this is there precedent for this kind of case . Because it seems kind of remarkable, the fraud on top of fraud, popping up more fraud to leverage more fraud. Is this something new that weve seen . The scheme itself is not new at all. It gets prosecuted all the time when people overvalue assets for the purpose of obtaining loans, im not sure its been done at this massive scale. You know, trump has been a salesman all his life. He sells a lot of things by boasting and using a lot of hyperbole, and maybe that works in the marketplace, but it doesnt work in financial services, you have to state truthful values of assets. And so, yes, this crime has occurred. Not crime, this violation of law has occurred. Im not sure it has ever occurred to this scale. Former u. S. Attorney and also one of the sisters in law from the podcast barbara mcquade, thank you very much. We want to read from mollys piece from vanity fair. Molly you write, in part this, the media isnt taking the former guy returning to power seriously enough, with the 2024 cycle in full swing hes been largely covered like a normal candidate, rather than someone who tried to end democracy. One has to wonder why there isnt more coverage about trump musing about sentencing the nations highest ranking general to death, then say the age of the current president. Trump routinely attacked journalists during his four years in office, now eyeing a return to the white house, trump is oy ramping up the antipress rhetoric by accusing a Media Company of country threatening treason. As anyone who lived through the past eight years can attest, you underestimate trump at your own peril. Trump is not getting better. If anything, hes getting worse. I understand the Mainstream Media may be bored with the crazy, but our country is once again sleepwalking into disaster. And if jrnists arent clear about the stakes of a second Trump Presidency, it will be, at least partially, our fault. Molly, of course, were quite aware here at this desk about donald trump threatening journalists, mika talked about the face shaming episode. He accused me of murder 12 times and suggested that i be tried for murder, continued doing that because he was angry. Thats had consequences in our life. Its had significant consequences in our life. Matt gaetz took Conspiracy Theories to donald trump and the white house and donald trump gobbled them up, spit them out and consequences be damned, but again, you know, it does democracy a Grave Disservice when hes going after reporters like youve said. Also, hes now saying that hes going to ban entire networks that he doesnt like and a couple weeks ago was talking about arresting democrats, just randomly arresting democrats after he got elected president of the United States. I always say this is like orban. No, orban wasnt even this outspoken when he was running for office. I dont think erdogan in turkey is this outspoken when hes running for office. This is a guy who is mimicking vladimir putin, just saying the quiet part out loud. Yeah, its really scary. His plans for a second term are autocracy at best. I mean, you know, he is really, really scary at this point, and i think that a lot of Mainstream Media, the straight reporters, are worried about looking biased, and so they dont want to cover trump. If you cover him in this way thats accurate, you seem like a partisan because what he says is so insane. And i think that they are really worried. And look, conservatives have worked the rafts. They have made it so that anytime amen. Theres a sort of unflattering trump headline, they say well this is obviously partisanship, and obviously this the liberal New York Times, the liberal Washington Post and so you really do see this overcorrection and i think that trump is banking on that, and i do also think its hard to cover this level of crazy, the mechanisms in traditional journalism are not made for someone who has absolutely no regard for truth. And molly, over a decade he has numbed many people, his supporters, but also members of the media. When he puts up a post that says mark milley decorated joint Chief Of Staff chairman in better days as trump put it would be hanged for treason. There he goes again. No, no, no, so i think its, to your point, its on us, its on the media, on everybody to not be numb to it, every time he does Something Like this. This is not normal. We cant have our politics, our country be like this. And it gets lost in the shuffle. I mean, a week before trump went after liberal jews on rosh hashanah, that was a crazy one of the, one of the most antisemitic tropes you can get involved in. It was lost in the shuffle. I do think people are scared at swinging at every pitch. If you dont draw attention to this craziness, trump will get reelected and it will be in some way our fault. I think it was sort of true even prior to trump that the media could overcorrect in covering as to not appear biased. Theres an element that people dont want to feel duped that theyre shocked by what trump there seems to be reluctance to be shocked because then you seem naive, unsophisticated, not what do you think that is . I mean, i think, look, trump got, you know, 2 billion of free media, those were the estimates after 2016, so there is you dont want to cover him in this incredulous way where youre like trump says something racist, oh, you know, and you repeat the lie like you do want to focus on the kind of truth sandwich element, you dont want to quote him incredulously. But i also think, you know, this is like a 911 for democracy. Totally. Theres nothing more important than keeping our democracy and we saw with trumps first season as president that, you know, he barely ended that presidency barely ended by his own will. John, republicans, particularly in the house who look the other way on all that donald trump has done, from january 6th, the continued lies about the election, all these indictments have set up hunter biden as some sort of an equivalent to that. Press, why arent you covering the hunter biden story the way you covered january 6th as if theres an equivalency. What aboutism in the highest forms. To mollys point they have worked claimed bias and prejudice from the media, adopted trumps philosophy fake news doesnt apply to a story thats not true, it applies to a story thats negative, that he doesnt like, thats the ethos of the Republican Party. This is a challenge for the immediate yarks we largely fell down on the job in 2016 in many ways, improved for 2020, no doubt, realized crow couldnt just take trump live, you couldnt just put in a tweet or a cable kai ron, you had to provide Fact Checking and context. You sometimes had to say, no, hes lying right now, right now. And i think that we have done that, but we have a long way to go. Its not perfect and weve never had ha candidate like this, an insurrectionist candidate, someone who would threaten to overthrow our democracy and he cant be treated just like anybody else. It took me a while. We hung up on him and started you know, again, and ive got to say i dont know how anybody, and ive been called and people have asked me my opinion because weve known trump for a long time, how do you interview trump . You start by asking the question that a lot of people ask, and you have to ask this question, is joe biden president of the United States, do you still not believe that joe biden and then you just hammer him, and you cant let it go on to economic development. No. Well, this guy is still talking about stealing democracy, and overturning a president ial election. Because thats an acceptance of a lie, and you cant do that, thats a disservice to viewers or readers. We saw what happened when meti had vivek on, and he just kept going back to the same question over and over and over again because vivek was shooting All Over The Place trying to distract, trying to move on to something else, throw an insult out here, its pure its straight out of the donald trump playbook, and you just cant do it. You have to stay focused on the issue at hand, and as we move forward it is true that trumpers have played the refs, and theyre constantly playing the refs. And so, you know, molly, weve got to go but i want to go back to this one. Because its just the insanity of the playing of the refs on like the hunter biden laptop. And somebody very wellrespected in the media who, you know, likes to think of himself as a truth teller. Oh, im going to tell the truth against what the Mainstream Media says, im progressive, but im a truth teller, right . Right. And so, after donald trump was contesting the election he goes, yeah, thats bad, but what about Hunter Bidens laptop . And im like, what, im im sorry, were in the middle of an american president ial election being stolen. Yeah, you know, there have been articles written about Hunter Bidens laptop and i sent him four or five articles about hunter biden, and sent him articles that have been written in the past about hunter biden, and some of the questionable Business Dealings he did going back to 2019, 2020, before the Biden Campaign. And then after january 6th. You know, the same females, yeah, youre talking about this so much, what about Hunter Bidens laptop . You saw what youtube did. And im like okay, is there really is there really no we talk about it, weve said the same thing over and over again, if hunter did something wrong, indict him, try him, convict him, send him to jail. Ill write him a note and say im sorry hes in jail. Just like ill probably do with donald trump. But they keep doing it, after the Nuclear Secrets were stolen, after the war plans were stolen, its always hunter biden, hunter biden, and im like, are you serious, truth teller . Like truth telling without any perspective whatsoever. It reminds me of what George Orwell would write back during world war ii talking about how horrible democracy was, and all you had to do was talk to a fascist or a communist and they would tell you how horrible democracy was. And orwell would say some of these arguments are really true, and maybe we could take more faith in them if you put them in proper perspective and you didnt realize that all these communists and fascists from across the world, once the first shots were fired in world war ii, all fled to america, and all fled to england, and all fled to these democracies that they said was corrupt. Thats what im saying, theres no perspective here, but they play the Refs Ceaselessly and a lot of people in Mainstream Media are stupid enough to fall for bobby knight working for refs, and throwing chairs across the floor. Theyre also scared. The media is a business like anything else and people feel pressure to, you know, to sort of look like theyre cutting it down the middle. I also agree, and look, hunter biden has been indicted. Its not like the guy is getting a free walk, hes being indicted on a very unusual federal gun charge. I mean, there is a lot of you know, theres a lot of justice, these republicans who say that the Merrick Garland Justice Department is not, you know, being evenhanded, i mean, they are indicts democrats left and right. So i dont think that that is really a story the same way they think it is, but again, like the road to another Trump Presidency is lined with false equivalencies. And thats false equivalency. And even as the Wall Street Journal editorial page theres smoke, no fire, none of them found fire. They go out saying stupid, stupid comments, you know, maybe there will be a connection at some point if theres a connection at some point, fantastic. Show it to us, well report on it. Weve report Hunter Bidens laptop to the stealing of Nuclear Secret secrets, the fraud on the massive level were learning about today in New York State, a judge in New York State calling donald trump a rapist, go on and on and on. Yeah. And again, its a false equivalency. Its demented. The fact weve talked about it now for five, six minutes means that working the refs works. That is why mollys piece is so important. Vanity fair molly jongfast, thank you very much, everyone should take a look at her piece especially in the industry of media and journalism. President biden made history yesterday, becoming the first sitting president in modern times to join a picket line. Biden stood with striking auto workers in bellville, michigan, and encouraged them not to give up their fight. Uaw, youve saved the Auto Building Industry in 2008 and before. Made a lot of sacrifices, gave up a lot, and the companies were in trouble. But now theyre doing incredibly well, and guess what . You should be doing incredibly well too. Stick with it, you deserve the significant raise you need, and other benefits. Lets get it. Wall street didnt build this country, the middle class built the country, and you didnt build the middle class. Thats a fact. The president of the United States working a Picket Line Yesterday in michigan. Joining Us Democratic congresswoman Elissa Slotkin of michigan, also a candidate for u. S. Senate. Congresswoman, thanks for being back with us this morning, what is your sense of where things stand in the auto workers strike and what impact the visit from the president of the United States may have had yesterday . Its definitely a busy week. We have trump in michigan today, we had biden yesterday, i mean, i think it was really strong showing, obviously historic moment, but i think also just a really important moment. I think the uaw strike, at least in michigan, has become a proxy for, do people in the skill trades in manufacturing get to be in the middle class . Thats what the fight is about, and i think weve seen some progress in some of the negotiations, uaw canada just sealed the deal with ford, so were hoping, no one wants a long strike, literally No One In The World wants a long strike so we hope that they continue to press forward and the president s visit, i thought, was really historic. Congresswoman slotkin good to see you, jonathan lemire, the president when asked by supporters there said he supported the 40 pay hike the Union Workers are seeking, the white house then walked that back but when confronted with a transcript, the president did say it, they had to walk back the walkback, and stepped on the message, where do you stand in terms of the relationship with the labor, not the union leadership, but the rank and file, some of whom, who did break for donald trump last time out, and who will be in attendance do you think the message for the white house has been Strong Enough to win the workers and votes . Having the president of the United States come is, i think, the strongest message you can send from an administration of support. I come from one of the most unionized districts in the country and i think while youre right theres been a mixed bag on voting, there is no dispelling the idea that President Biden hasnt done real things for labor, and while donald trump likes to message this, and, you know, is going tonight ostensibly to support the strike, but is going to a nonunionized facility while President Biden has done real things to actually help workers, and put in by american requirements, created manufacturing jobs. So i just think the debate is really like one guy supports in deeds and one guy supports in words only. That is our job to make clear to people in michigan and throughout the country. Yeah, certainly worth underscoring, the former president s appearing at a nonunion facility tonight. Want to turn you to the looming government shutdown, the house started the process with a few spending bills, long way to go. The senates pushes their own ideas for continuing resolution. Where do things stand, in your estimation how likely is a shutdown as the clock really ticks fast . Well, unfortunately, i mean, just based on, you know, our votes last night, until 1 30 in the morning i think we are heading towards a government shutdown. I do not understand as a member of congress what speaker mccarthys play is here. He has, you know, said that he would rather lose his job than take the bill, the bipartisan bill from the senate, and bring it up for a vote, right, that bill passed with 78 senators, right, so a strong bipartisan majority, its going to come over here this weekend. But he says he will not bring it up for a vote. He wont compromise with five or six democrats to get it passed. So i just i dont understand the path, and hes, you know, hes given us a master class how to not negotiate, right, we should learn from this, everyone should learn from this, hes got himself so pinned into a corner by five or six members of his party, that its either keep the government running, or lose his job, and hes choosing keeping his job over the country. So from your perspective on the inside, you think theres going to be a shutdown at midnight on saturday . Mine, i think thats what were headed towards right now unless he explains to the world his plan to do what adults do, which is sit in a room, negotiate, and compromise. Quickly, congresswoman, before you go, youre running as i mentioned for the United States senate, one of your colleagues potentially would be bob menendez, the senator of new jersey, 24 Senate Democrats have called for his resignation. I should point out you called for him to resign a couple of days before the dam broke in the senate. Why do you believe he needs to step down . Everyone is innocent until Proven Guilty but there should be a higher standard for people who are in elected office, especially senior people in elected office. And, while hell have his day in court, i think its just very important that we realize when our leadership is a distraction to the mission of our jobs like representing the people of new jersey, then its time to do the honorable thing and step aside, and i have no independent view of his innocence or guilt, but we should have a higher standard for elected officials. Democratic congresswoman Elissa Slotkin can i ask one question, elissa, quickly before we let you go, a guy who might be your opponent, mike rogers, a guy ive always had Great Respect for, whos always held himself out from the madness of trumpism, respected the rule of law for good reason, i was distressed to see over the last week or so a video of him surfacing where hes now trying to sound, i mean, like mtg, where he was talking, you know, talking about attacking the Justice Department, attacking the fbi, attacking the very foundation of our legal system. Has it really sunk to this level, that even people like that, who used to be voices of sanity, have now started attacking americas rule of law . Yeah, it was pretty amazing. I mean, you know, i think what struck me is im someone whos done Bipartisanship Events with mike rogers in the past, but to go out as a former fbi officer and completely trash your home agency, and to talk about how biased theyve become. Its unbelievable. It was stunning for me, and i think for a lot of National Security professionals who always feel like our profession is sort of it should be above politics. It was really hard to watch, even though were in a competitive election. Really hard to watch. Democratic congresswoman Elissa Slotkin of michigan, thank you very much, we appreciate your joining us this morning. And, coming up, a new report, just released, shows how the Latino Community is driving the u. S. Economy in a big way. Well break down the key findings and what they mean. Plus, were Just Moments Away from our interview with former white house aide Cassidy Hutchinson, the new details shes revealing about her time in Donald Trumps inner circle. And, Remembering Orioles Baseball great Brooks Robinson, the impact, the legendary Hall Of Famer left on the sport. Well discuss that, and much more, straight ahead on morning joe. Back . [sfx video game] emergenc crystals. If you struggle. And struggle. And struggle with cpap. 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Ive got homework no way its still my turn we couldnt share the internet. Times up. sharings caring but now with viasats new plans, we have plenty of internet. For everyone except you babe. Youre being rude. More data. Faster speeds. Available where you live. Learn more about our plans at viasat. Com. upbeat music constant contacts advanced automation lets you send the right message at the right time, every time. constant contact. Helping the small stand tall. 32, in the air out towards right center, suzuki, the call no. Oh, my goodness. And two runs scored. Sweet jesus, you cant blame bartman for that. Oh, come on. I have so many friends who are cubs fans who are sweating it out this morning after that. Theyll be talking about that one for a while, the cubs who, of course, pursuing the playoffs, recently lost 9 out of 12 games, and continue working very hard to once again break the hearts of so many people, the braves there completed a sixrun comeback as the cubs blew that lead, and lost 76. It also eliminated the cubs from the race for the nl central, handing the Milwaukee Brewers their Sixth Division title in franchise history, and their third in the past six seasons. Well see if the cubs can back into the wild card, the third wild card position, they are still contending for one of only two remaining wild card spots, the phillies wrapped up the top wild card seed last night with a 32 walkoff win against the pirates. The phillies started the season slow, but theyve come on strong the second half, and hosting game one of the nl wild card series next tuesday. The American League Seattle Mariners snapped a Losing Streak with a 62 win over the astros and pulled within half a game of houston for the third and Final Al Wild Card spot, the mariners also gained theame of the rangers in the nl west, after texas fell to the los ael angels, but keep your eyes on that, that al wild card race between the astros and the mariners, its a great one, all the way to the last day. And, in baltimore, the orioles open their final home stand of the regular season with a 10 win over the washington nationals, the os magic number to clinch the al east is down to two. But obviously, the organization, and baltimore, and well, really, the entire baseball world is mourning the loss of Hall Of Famer Brooks Robinson who spent his entire 23year career with that team, winning two world series titles in the 1964 American League mvp award, the 18 alltime the 18time allstar was also one of the best fielders in baseball history, who won 16 consecutive gold gloves at third base, robinson was also 86 years old, he also was just by all accounts a great, great guy, if you get a chance, read thomas boswells, a piece in 1983 he wrote when Brooks Robinson was admitted to the hall of fame. Basically said, you know, when i get older, and young kids are trying to explain the greatness of Brooks Robinson, you know, it may be hard to explain what made him such a special person. They never got a chance to meet this wonderful, wonderful man. Lets bring in msnbc contributor Mike Barnicle and New York Times bestselling author mike lupica, and james patterson, new novel 12 months to live. You guys were in maryland last night, and have a story to tell about just how much Brooks Robinson meant,like lupica, how much he meant to baltimore, and baseball. By sheer chance we ended up in ocean city, maryland last night at the performing arts center, and that is orioles country, and it is Brooks Robinson country, and right as i was going on i got the text from my friends at morning joe saying we were going to honor Brooks Robinson and i didnt want to pass up this opportunity. So i asked the crowds indulgence, saying i just got a text from morning joe, and were going to talk about Brooks Robinson tomorrow, and honor his memory, and joe and mika and everybody, this huge cheer rose up in this big performing arts center, and it was like a sound out of Memorial Stadium in the 50s, and 60s. And my friend tim wrote a thing on espn today this was the most popular athlete in the history of the city of baltimore. I was thinking last night how great it was that the last orioles season of his life was one i am sure he understood completely. Yeah, absolutely wonderful, Mike Barnicle, he was an extraordinarily popular guy, not because he was such a great baseball player, that certainly helped, but also a great human being, i remember being a very young kid and my dad kind of pushing me over when we were in Memorial Stadium and said, hey, theres Brooks Robinson, go get his autograph. I remember thinking at the time, even as a young kid, wait, what, a wonderful, gentle guy he seemed to be, different than other Baseball Players that, you know, i stuck the program out to have them give autographs through the time, just a wonderful, decent, sweet guy. Joe, you know, when the news of Brooks Robinsons passing occurred yesterday, it put me in the way back machine, in 1966 i met Brooks Robinson for the first time, in 1966 i had a terrible job in washington, d. C. , and it allowed me to give tip oneill a ride to Memorial Stadium every time the red sox played the orioles. Id drive him up and sit there and watch the game with frank cash and harry dalton, executives, and they introduced me to Brooks Robinson. I met him several times after that. If you want to talk about Brooks Robinson and the orioles and Brooks Robinson and baseball, thats one thing. To people who met him, to the fans who got to know him, he was fferent than any other athlete. Dave shanen has a great column in the Washington Post today with a great anecdote about Brooks Robinson by an old sports writer, forgive, i forget his name, but the quote is from him. It was, you know, in new york city, they named a candy bar after reggie jackson, in baltimore, when it comes to Brooks Robinson, we name our children after him. And thats who Brooks Robinson was, the impact. He was bareshnikov with a rawlings fielding mitt on his hands. But he was an enormously wonderful human being. Youd meet him, joe, and say, we playing softball on saturday, he had that look of a regular guy because he was a regular guy. He was, indeed, he was mr. Oriole and you captured so well what he meant to that city, and tell us a little bit about the poignancy of Robinson Passing Away at a moment of rebirth for this franchise, that had been so down in recent years, but built back up with young players, none of them quite flashed the leather like Brooks Robinson, great players, a game or two away from clinching the American League east. Its great for baseball, its great for baltimore, obviously, but its really great for baseball to see the rebirth of a truly valued franchise in Major League Baseball with the first the first in the original of the new ballparks, camden yards, designed and built by larry lakino who went to the red sox and rebuilt fenway park, rebuilt the franchise in terms of that camden yards ballpark and the attraction for the team now is going to help bring back baltimore, baltimore has had a tough time, always has a tough time, but its going to help rebirth or give rebirth to the city of baltimore again. And again, mike lupica, you brought it up, but how great that Brooks Robinsons final season is connected with Baltimore Orioles with such a good one, and not only that, the orioles have really Bright Future ahead, with eight of the top 100 prospects lined up for the next several years. Joe, i was thinking yesterday that Brooks Robinson is one of those people thatou have to pass on. You have to pass on willie mays, people didnt see him at his best. He played third base as well as anybody ever played any position in the history of baseball, and if people have the ability today, go look at the master class he gave in defense during the 1970 world series against johnny bench said he hit 14 hardballs at that series and Brooks Robinson caught them all. His glove is where singles and doubles went to die. Unbelievable, and what a line that mike said this morning, in a column he read, in the post, that in new york they named candy bars after reggie jackson, in baltimore they named their children after Brooks Robinson. Wow, mike lupica and Mike Barnicle, thank you both very much for helping us remember him today. And coming up, senator bob menendez is receiving support from within the chamber as he faces federal bribery charges, but not from all of his fellow democrats. What Senate Republicans are saying in his defense, while more than half of his democratic colleagues have now urged him to resign. Morning joe will be right back. Hows the heart . Good. You sure . I think so. How do you know . Let me show you something. Put two fingers right on those pads. Look at that thats your heart that is pretty awesome. With kardiamobile, you can take a medicalgrade ekg in just 30 seconds, from anywhere. Kardiamobile is proven to detect atrial fibrillation, one of the leading causes of stroke. Kardiamobile is now available for just 79. Order at kardia. Com or amazon. The power goes out and we still have wifi kardiamobile is now available for just 79. To do our homework. And thats a good thing . Great in my book who are you . No power . No problem. Introducing stormready wifi. Now you can stay reliably connected through Power Outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery backup to keep you online. Only from xfinity. Home of the xfinity 10g network. Every day, businesses everywhere are asking is it possible . With comcast business. It is. Is it possible to help keep our Online Platform safe from cyberthreats . Absolutely. Can we provide health care virtually anywhere . We can help with that. Is it possible to use predictive monitoring to address operations issues . We can help with that, too. With the advanced connectivity and intelligence of global secure networking from comcast business. Its not just possible. Its happening. Welcome back. A new report released just moments ago shows the tremendous impact and growing importance of the u. S. Latino community in the u. S. Economy. The 2023 official latino donor collaborative latino gdp report provides a comprehensive review on the latinos impact on the national and state level of findings. U. S. Latinos are generating an incredible 3. 2 trillion in gdp overall. That places the u. S. Latino economy as the fifth largest in the world, surpassing the economies of india, the United Kingdom and france. Joining us now to dig into the numbers, cofounder and chairman of the board at latino donor collaborative, saul trujillo. Before we get in on the charts and the specifics on this, what are some of the other Key Takeaways you found in this report . I think there are two pieces, and one is the numbers you talked about. I think in the United States we dont recognize the latino cohort is driving 20 of all of our gdp growth in the country. Thats number one. And its only going to get bigger because of the youthfulness of the cohort, meaning the heavy concentration of 11 to 14 years old, and theres a million young people turning 18 every year, so it will only grow, and most people dont talk it and dont realize it or understand it, which is why we do the report. The second part is, a you look at the other data in there regarding states and each of the individual states and the impact the latino cohort is having on population growth, and more importantly, Economic Growth and Labor Force Growth rate, because you cant grow an economy without growing Labor Force Growth. You can look at texas and north dakota. They are all growing. If we could also look at what the report found in terms of u. S. Latinos and income and purchasing power, and what the results you found there mean. Well, you know, theres a lot of people that say, you know, this generation is going to be inadequate for competing in this next technology kind of world that we are in, and the data would say the latino cohort, their educational growth and attainment is exceeding any other cohort in terms of rates. In terms of income this cohort now has the highest Income Growth of any other cohort in the United States, and the youthfulness is what will be big, because its 65 Million People today, and based on birthrate, not immigration, just birthrate, as people go into Social Security and things running out of support, and we have another wave of growth that is here, but we have to feed it. The one big message i am trying to deliver, lets understand it, and i am trying to feed it. I am a capitalist and i believe that capital should flow, and less than 1 flows into the cohort flows into that, and that doesnt make sense. Just as we close, another thing the report found is latinos play a role in workforce participation, increased productivity linked to educational attainment, economic power, and also leading to political power. Its a fascinating report. Co founder and chairman of the board at latino donor collaborative, saul trujillo, thank you for being on this morning. We appreciate it. Thank you. Still ahead on morning joe, target is making headlines this morning for its decision to close nearly 10 stores claiming violence, theft, and organized retail crime are threatening the safety of its workers. We will get to that story. Plus, Cassidy Hutchison will join us at the top of the hour. What she says went down behind the scenes at the white house, and how she coped. We will dive into the chaos and lawlessness. Were back in 90 seconds. In 90s welcome back to morning joe. Its the top of the hour. A live look at the white house. Coming up we will be talking to a woman that worked in that building during the trump administration, and what a story she has to tell. Its wednesday, september 27th. Jonathan lemire is still with us. Also coming up, we will talk about a major ruling in new york. A judge ruling that former President Trump and his two eldest sons committed repeated acts of fraud for years. This is a major victory for new York Attorney general, Letitia James. Its just part of a suit she brought against the former president. The judge deciding the trial not even necessary because the fraud was so blatant. For example, donald trump exaggerating the size of his trump tower apartment by 19,000 feet. Who does that . Well, we know donald trump does that. It was, i believe, his first day in office exaggerating crowd size. Once again this lawsuit has significant consequences. The one part of the trial that will go through is the part where the judge decides what, exactly, trump has to pay for this. Thats coming up. First, when white house aide, Cassidy Hutchison, appeared before the january 6th Committee Last year, her testimony revealed some of the most shocking details of what she says went on within the president s inner circle leading up to and during the capitol attack. So the president had gotten into the vehicle with bobby, and he thought they were going up to the capitol. When bobby relayed to him, its not secure we are going back to the west wing, the president had very strong and very angry response to that. Tony described him as being irate. The president said something to the affect of, i am the fing president , take me up to the capitol now, and bobby said, sir, we have to go to the west wing. And the president reached up to the front of the car for the steering wheel, and bobby grabbed his arm and said, sir, take your hand off the wheel, we are going back to the white house. And Cassidy Hutchison joins us live in studio. Her new book is titled enough, and there are new details around january 6th. Good to meet you. Good to meet you. Lets talk about that day, january 28th, and you already gave the deposition, and you didnt want to be the sole witness, and you were looking at the crude and you knew your life was about change and you hesitated. Thank you for the introduction. Well, there was a physical force, i turned back when the doors opened and i wanted to dash, and i had this lastminute surge of anxiety, and he pushed me out. I knew it was important to be there that day, and it was important to have a voice that would be able to speak truths to what actually happen in the west wing that day, and i had a conversation with liz cheney the night before the live testimony. There was a really profound moment for me when she said its important for women and little girls to see that we can have people and women that speak truth to power. I think we are in the era where we are in this crisis of accountability, and to have somebody that is there that can speak to those truths, it was important and i knew it was and was just a little nervous to do so. Of course. And were you 24 on january 26th, and you are 24 and all of these alleged leaders, most of them men without the west wing and in the capitol who had been around washington for a long time, and as they were cowering, you were saying we have to do something, this will be bad and get ugly, and, indeed, it did. What was it like for you in those moments, and in those days, and you look around and mark meadows was literally sitting on the couch saying the big guy, trump, doesnt want us to do anything. And you thought, this is up to me, a 24yearold, and what was the pressure like on your shoulders . Well, i know you have experience yeah, we have a lot of the similar experiences. In that job, looking back with hindsight, i see it in a different perspective today, but i saw it as my job to get things done no matter what it took. In those moments, i saw it as my duty and obligation to help mark be able to facilitate something so we didnt have a bigger crisis that day. Looking back now, you know, i see that theres a lack of leadership, and there was a lack of leadership that day. I dont deem it i dont have a hero complex that i saved anything on january 6th at all, and i live with the guilt of being explicit and possibly instrumental leading up to january 6th, and part of the reason i wrote the book is because i didnt just land in the chair to testify, but it took a long time to get there. You wrote in the book, you are a proud republican and sun conservative, and you were turned on to politics when mitt romney was running, and you had respect for donald trump and worked alongside of him. When did that turn . When did that change . When you deal like the things we tolerated for the first 3 1 2 years, and you said thats just donald trump, and when did it get more serious and you thought i have to do something here . Theres a shift on me on january 6th that i dont fully think i was cognizant to at the time. It took a while to get to where i was able to realize this, and its the trump world mentality, where i fell into that, and theres nothing wrong with it necessarily, but it was a year and a half where i was going to testify and being more forthright with the committee, and this is not the Public Service i had envisions a career being with, so i think that the points of reflection that i had helped bring me to the moments, but i am still working through a lot of those things. The points in your book, and we heard it in your testimony, mark meadows, his weakness and his inability to do anything, and you said on page 21, mark needs to snap out of this, he needs to care. I also deliberately tried to write the book alongside my collaborator, and he was able to pull stories out of me that i never would have been able to do on my own, and i tried to write the book in real time, how i was thinking in that moment. In that moment i was not thinking mark is being a coward, i thought, is he in shock, or is he scared. I dont want to speculate about his mindset that day, and i dont know how he was feeling that day, and i dont want to self assign adjectives of how he may or may not feel he was being, and i will leave that to the experts to do. I was more alarmed and upset. I felt for him, you know, because he was the Chief Of Staff and he was instrumental in these moments, too, and i saw the Chief Of Staff that is only as good as the people that served him, and a president is only as good as the people that serve him. Testifying was going to change your life, as you said, women and girls would look up to you, but a lot of people that you knew and loved for a long time would disown you. You know donald trump would go after you, your credibility, i never knew her and never seen this woman. Tell me about that decision on a personal level, to sit in that chair and know the minute that you started to testify, when you walk back out those doors, your life was different forever . I had made peace with that long before i testified. I say made peace, but i had accepted, i suppose is a better way of phrasing it. I knew if or when i got to that point i wasnt going to have those connections anymore. I would hope that i would be able to maintain some of them, but its thats straight out of trumps playbook, and i know because i was part of it and thats not something that i was proud of, but its something i hold myself accountable to, and i think the more we can held ourselves accountable to, and i didnt come forward to hurt anybody but to speak the truth. I think thats our obligation as Public Service. We are doing a disservice to our country, if we are serving the principal, the president of the United States, and not the people. Thank you for sharing the process, the emotional and intellectual process you went through serving this white house and trying to serve the country. Back to mark meadows. You were discussing him around january 6th. I want to go back to chapter 11 and ask what your instincts are. You wrote about him asking you if you would take a bullet for President Trump, and after you got over your shock at the question, you said to him, would you . He said, i would do anything, mark answered, looking over his shoulder at me, to get him reelected. How would you characterize what you witnessed in mark meadows relationship with trump and others as it goes to there was loyalty to trump in that administration, and i felt like marks obligations and loyalties were to the country, and that moment is a moment that stuck out to me when i was writing the book, because its a really profound moment, especially in my reflection that i am able to grasps. I can see the distance between the loyalty to the country and the loyalties we had to donald trump. There were points where i was very loyal to donald trump, and i lost that part of that, and i lost mark was loyal to the president , and thats not necessarily a bad thing. It becomes dangerous when you prioritize your loyalties to the president over your loyalties to the country and the job that you serve. You know, cassidy, i had been a republican for much of my life like you. I know mark meadows, and i have for a while, and i have known donald trump for a while, and Lindsay Graham for a while. I never cease being shocked by my friends that i had that i would have never guessed would have blindly fallen into line behind a guy that puts himself above the country. There have been a lot of great surprises, too. I have had friends that i thought would be the first ones to blindly follow but pushed back, and i am curious when you made this decision, you have made pleasant surprised where people have remained friends and defenders of you . Yeah, and the trump post trump era part of my life, and this is going to be sounding hokey, and i have lived in isolation a little bit, and part because of the security issues, and there are good people, and people that genuinely care about Public Service and as terrible january 6th was, i still have hope that we can come back from this, and i have hope that there are good leaders, but we have to be able to elect the leaders and be careful of power being in the wrong hands. I thought like you, one of the blessings that i have gotten out of a lot of things, and over the past five or six, seven years, it has been that finding people i fought against politically my entire life that i have gotten to know that are really wonderful people, and they put country first, and, like you said, are good and decent people. I want to talk about those that are not so descent, and i want to talk about the culture inside the trump administration. I want to talk about the culture of well, these men, and i find it shocking, but these men that treated you and people like alyssa and i was talking to mika yesterday about this, and they would lack such like giuliani almost molesting you on january 6th, and Peter Navarro saying the worst things in the world about you, and it flows downhill from donald trump and all the things in the past. I am curious about first of all, how do you respond to this . How do you brace yourself against this . Are you and alyssa and others that are being attacked, do you all talk to each other . Do you all gain support for each other . How do you go through this . I am going to say, too, i am shocked, how does this corrupt culture occur where 60 and 70yearold men talk this way about young women . You know, joe, i wish i could say it was surprising that there are environments like this that still exist. Its an unfortunate truth, and i think thats something that we need to call attention to in society, and especially in our political system. We need more women in government and in politics. Men have been running the country too long and its clearly not working. I do talk to alyssa frequently. She has been a phenomenal source of support throughout the entire journey for me. I think back to, you know, alyssa and i were great friends in the administration, but she spoke out on january 7th, and i look back in hindsight, and i was upset with her. I saw the route she had taken, and i felt she betrayed the unspoken oath of loyalty. She was out there far before i was, and for me she was one of the voices where she spoke out against these people and didnt back down, and she has dealt with a lot more than i have, and shes still having to explain herself over and over and over again why she worked for donald trump, and why we should believe her now, and why shes not in there for any other purpose. We are creating an environment where people are going to be more afraid to speak out, and people are not going to feel welcomed. I want to create an environment where if there are people in the trump world and people on that side of the republican politics, theres a home for you. We can get to a better place as a party where we can be productive again, where we will not be arguing about donald trump and the democrats. We can have productive policy negotiations and conversations, and thats where i think we need to get back to as a society. What you said about my response to all of the push back of what everybody has said, whether its Peter Navarro or rudy giuliani, and i will opt not to give them oxygen, and the more we amplify what they say, and i dont have a reason to push back on it and i stand by everything i testified to to the january 6th committee and the department of justice and the fulton investigators, and i stand by everything in this book. Very well said. For this next question, its a big one, but i am curious what your instincts your gut answer is, and that is if donald trump is reelected, dot, dot, dot, finish it for me. I think we need to have conversations this year to make sure the closest donald trump gets to the white house again is when he reports to the courthouse in washington, d. C. For his trial. How are you doing . Pretty good. Im a little tired. We have had a lot of similar experiences, because i had the same job you had, and i had to testify in a trial involving president clinton and testify in a trial regarding another boss, and i know that feeling you described where you are getting ready to walk into the courtroom, and you are thinking, is this happening . Do i really have to do this . I know what that feels like. One thing, when you testified on january 6th, people were saying shes such a young woman, did she really have all this authority, and i know because i had that job. Its such a small place, right . Yeah, its pretty much from here to across the room where the oval office would be from the oval office and the chiefs office. Yeah, and i know that mindset sets in, like, i have to deliver i work for the Chief Of Staff, and if things are not working, its on us. You get into a defensive mechanism where you are constantly under attack and you constantly have to be pushing back. People are coming to you as his assistant to confess, almost, and share with you everything that is happening in the white house. Is that you know did you is that how you felt like you were aware of so much happening because of the seat you had . There was a combination of things, jen, and there was a proximity to have that corner seat in the white house, and you are naturally going to hear a lot of things and are exposed a lot of things. And mark described me as being his eyes and ears, and thats the most accurate description, because theres not one title you can put on many jobs in the west wing, and even if its press secretary, and many do the job to get it done, and we are there for a purpose and its supposed to be to serve the country and the president. The former president is under indictment in a number of places, and one of the places is for election fraud, and you reveal where you say he was aware he loss, and the big lie is he knew he was lying, and tell us when it was clear that trump knew he knew about the truth after election day . I dont want to speculate on the president s thought process, and there was when the Supreme Court just denied the lawsuit from ken paxton, and he told mark, this is embarrassing, i dont want people to know we lost. And i testified to that to every government entity. General mark milley, who the president attacked this past weekend, is also on the record saying that he was in the president s presence when the president admitted he lost. Alyssa is also on the record saying those things, similar things. I was also privy to conversations that i had with mark. Mark was vague about how the president felt about the election, but that we there was still more steps that could be taken to buy time to prove the election had been stolen, but when push came to shove and when all the efforts failed is when he turned to the Electoral College decertification on january 6th. That to me in that moment, it shed light on maybe, okay, maybe there is an end to this. A lot of this were eternally looking at that moment where we could concede and diplomatically enjoy our last few weeks in the white house, and it didnt turn out that way. That moment gave me a little hope for that, but immediately it was walked back again. A couple quotes you attribute to mark meadows on december 28th, ill be the best Chief Of Staff if i can keep him in office, if thats what he wants, thats what i want. And then when trump asked for the votes, you said in the book, that was insane, right . He said, cass, he knows its over talking about donald trump, he knows he lost but we will keep trying. There are good options out there, still, we are going to keep trying. End quote. I want to ask you as we close here, you mentioned liz cheney throughout the process, before, during and after your testimony. As an inspiration to you and as one of the people that was by your side that you could coviede in, and liz cheney is the leader we need as a country to come together and find people like liz cheney. Liz cheney has a spine of steel and cares deeply about this country. Liz cheney sits on a dieious with several democrats i know i came to this moment because of liz cheney. I am forever indebted to her for that and for getting me to where i am today. You said there was the rose garden moment after the Supreme Court decision, and he said to you, i dont want people to know i lost, right . He said that to mark meadows. I was standing caddy corner to mark meadows, and we were at a christmas reception and the president was going back to the residence from the oval office, so i was with mark, steps behind mark, and this was a conversation between the president and mark meadows. Where the president said i dont want people to know. The president pushed back, i dont want people to know we lost, mark. This is embarrassing. He said, figure it out. Thats so trump, by the way. I dont want people to know i lost. This is embarrassing. And betraying the entire country because hes embarrassed. Incredible. The book is called enough, and we did not get to the white claws or the baby oil. You will have to read the book. We only scratched the surface. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Still ahead on morning joe, a judge finds the former president committed fraud by inflating his assets by billions of dollars. We will look at the evidence and what it could mean for the future for his family business, particularly here in new york. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Right back. Limu emu doug what do we always say, son . Liberty mutual customizes your car insurance. So you only pay for what you need. Thats my boy. Now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh . Bye, uncle limu. Stay off the freeways only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. What was it like before viasat Satellite Internet . Two words not fun. Log off. Ive got homework no way its still my turn but now with viasats new plans, we have plenty of internet. For everyone learn more about our plans at viasat. Com the power goes out and we still have wifi we have plenty of internet. For everyone to do our homework. And thats a good thing . Great in my book who are you . No power . No problem. Introducing stormready wifi. Now you can stay reliably connected through Power Outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery backup to keep you online. Only from xfinity. Home of the xfinity 10g network. Every day, businesses everywhere are asking is it possible . With comcast business. It is. Is it possible to help keep our Online Platform safe from cyberthreats . Absolutely. Can we provide health care virtually anywhere . We can help with that. Is it possible to use predictive monitoring to address operations issues . We can help with that, too. With the advanced connectivity and intelligence of global secure networking from comcast business. Its not just possible. Its happening. We have so much going on today. We begin with a major ruling in a civil case against donald trump and his family business. In a 35page decision yesterday, manhattan judge found the former president and his two oldest sons and their companies liable for fraud. According to the judge, trump spent years inflating the value of their assets and Financial Statements given to banks and insurance companies. The rule something tied to a case brought by new York Attorney general, Letitia James, in 2019, which was scheduled to go to a bench trial early next week. Yesterday the judge effectively decided he didnt need a trial to determine the trumps were liable. The judge wrote in his ruling, this is a Fantasy World, not the real world and admonished the former president for over valuing his holdings by as much as 2. 2 billion. In one example trump overestimated the size of his manhattan apartment, which he spent years living in by 19,000 feet or 200 . The judge called that absurd, writing, quote, a discrepancy of this order of magnitude by a Real Estate Developer by sizing up his living space of decades can only be fraud. I will have to go back. Its a size issue. Yeah, and its always a size issue. Yeah, my 21,000foot condo, and i may be off by about 19,000 feet. Maybe i need to go back and reestimate that. What . Yeah, slightly off on those numbers. Thats just one of the properties we will talk about here. Next weeks bench trial will proceed so the judge can determine the size of the punishment. The judge has granted james to cancel the business the trumps could be banned from doing business in New York State. Trump reacted to the ruling on social media, attacking the judge and the new York Attorney general. Lets bring in senior fbi correspondent, Chuck Rosenberg and the reporter from the New York Times, russ. Russ, you have been covering this closely. Can you boil down for the audience what is going down and what trump is alleged to have done here, and why the judge viewed it as fraud. If you read the documents that are filed in the case and the judges decision, its a very clear example of misleading the banks that he is presenting these documents to in a fraudulent way. Hes not just overstating values, as he said, but hes withHolding Information they have found that they know themselves to be true from the banks, and they are they had assessments done to the property that show one value, and they are presenting another value. There are documents that have been filed where they cant raise the rent on certain apartment buildings, but they act like they could sell those as condos with no regulations on them at all, and they have properties they cant develop but the valuation says they could develop it, and its not just playing with numbers but its withHolding Information in a fraudulent way and increasing the value of these things. The judge will be the finder of facts in this case when it goes to trial. Hes essentially the jury and he said theres enough information presented on the first count and the most important count to find them essentially guilty and to move on to damages. We will get on a trial on the remaining six counts. Coming up, former defense secretary, mark esper, joins the conversation. He supports keeping classified documents secret and he opposes Death Threats against american generals, and that makes him an outlier from trumps Republican Party, and he joins our conversation straight ahead on morning joe. Morning joe. With fastsigns, brew signature flavor into every sip and sign. Fastsigns. Make your statement. Senators calls for his resignation, and it swells to nearly half the chamber. There are charges that include conspiracy to commit bribery. He and his wife insist they did nothing wrong. As of last night, 24 Senate Democrats are calling for him to step down, including cory booker. He praised menendez as a good person. Senator menendez made these sacrifices in the past to serve, and in this case he must do so again. I believe stepping down is best for those Senator Menendez spent his life serving. He stepped down from the foreign commissions committee, but he has been defiant to give up his senate seat. He claimed the half Million Dollars investigators felt stuffed in his clothes was money he had withdrawn over decades. Yeah, and its never a good day when reporters are yelling, what about the gold bars . Some republicans are coming to his defense against the calls for him to step down, and tom cotton said a jury should decide the senators fate. Senator rubio, he said it should be joining the wait and see chorus, and they said its up to the courts and people to decide his fate. The dam broke yesterday with cory booker. He put out that statement, and now there are 24 other democrats. We were on the air at this time, and four democrats had asked him to resign. The argument from republicans and tom cotton is democrats are worried about their grip on power, and it could be they hold their colleagues to a different standard than republicans do. I am surprised, normally they will have one set of rules for trump and say everything he does is fine, and one set of rules for Democratic Senators, but they are being consistent now saying the jury should decide. I think the booker statement was the model for this, which is you Have Public Trust and the question has been raised just about the behavior and what it shows in terms of his judgment is enough to say he should step aside, and whether he he may never do that. I think that the only thing democrats can do is say what should happen here, you know, and thats enough to be living up to the standard. Yeah, resign does not mean an admission of guilt but it just means you cant serve the people of new jersey anymore. I think there will be more of his colleagues saying its time to go, and if they are to remain silent on menendez, then they would have to apply that to trump. Menendez said yesterday he would not resign, and theres a suggestion he would hold on to his seat and use it as a chip in a plea deal, and i think we should expect those calls to pick up in the days ahead. And then a new york judge just found trump liable for fraud, and its no exaggeration to say the ruling has huge implications for him. Morning joe is coming right back. Power e trades awardwinning trading app makes trading easier. With its customizable options chain, easytouse tools and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. E trade from morgan stanley. Whenever youre hungry, theres a deal on the subway app. Buy one footlong, get one 50 off in the subway app today. Now thats a deal worth celebrating. Man, what are you doing . get it before its gone on the subway app. As americans, theres one thing we can all agree on. The promise of our constitution and the hope that liberty and justice is for all people. But heres the truth. Attacks on our constitutional rights, yours and mine are greater than theyve ever been. The right for all to vote. Reproductive rights. The rights of immigrant families. The right to equal justice for black, brown and lgbtq folks. The time to act to protect our rights is now. Thats why im hoping youll join me today in supporting the American Civil Liberties union. Its easy to make a difference. Just call or go online now and become an aclu guardian of liberty. All it takes is just 19 a month. Only 0. 63 a day. Your monthly support will make you part of the movement to protect the rights of all people, including the fundamental right to vote. States are passing laws that would suppress the right to vote. We are going backwards. But the aclu cant do this important work without the support of people like you. You can help ensure liberty and justice for all and make sure that every vote is counted. So please call the aclu now or go to my aclu. Org and join us. When you use your credit card, youll receive this special we the people tshirt and much more. To show youre a part of the movement to protect the rights guaranteed to all of us by the us constitution. We protect everyones rights, the freedom of religion, the freedom of expression, racial justice, lgbtq rights, the rights of the disabled. We are here for everyone. It is more important than ever to take a stand. So please join us today. Because we the people means all the people, including you. So call now or go online to my aclu. Org to become a guardian of liberty. Struck ongoing strike against the nations three largest automakers. That conversation straight ahead on morning joe. Ah, these bills are crazy. She has no idea shes sitting on a goldmine. Well she doesnt know that if she owns a Life Insurance policy of 100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. Even a term policy. Even a term policy . Even a term policy find out if youre sitting on a goldmine. Call Coventry Direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect. Com. upbeat music constant contacts advanced automation lets you send the right message at the right time, every time. constant contact. Helping the small stand tall. Florida gov. Ron desantis taking credit live look added the capitol. Welcome back to morning joe as we launch the fourth hour. There is some movement on capitol hill to get a government funding bill passed but it may not amount to much yet. The senate advanced a stopgap bill to fund the government until midnovember. A measure unlikely to pass the house. Meanwhile the house voted to open debate on four funding bills, none of which would get through the senate. Speaker Kevin Mccarthy is blaming the houses failure to pass a government funding bill on President Biden. All the president has to do is say as one of my fundamental jobs as the president , its to secure a border. The border is not secure. Are you willing to shut down the government if you do not get the deal . Let me be clear, it would not be on us. Joining us now is u. S. Transportation secretary is pete buttigieg. Is this President Bidens fall and what about the big picture . Of course thats a challenge and the ironing here is that the same House Republicans have proposed extreme cuts, some of which would reduce the numbers of cbp patients and their looking and a shutdown tsa officers or airtraffic controllers. Republicans are threatening todo it and all the speaker has to do is live up to a deal that he already made with the president that most House Republicans already voted for. Remember, this was supposed to ve been resolved earlier this year when the speaker shook hands with the president on a deal that by the way is not easy for anybody to accept. There were cuts to transportation and Grant Programs and we all saw that neil was what it was going to take to resolve funding questions. They ask us to choose between extreme cuts which means less railroad safety. If there was a shutdown from the perspective of a transportation secretary, what impact would it have . Right away airtraffic controllers would stop getting paid and just think about the stress that called with this job on a normal day. Think about what we are asking these thousands of airtraffic controllers every day to keep us safe to maintain the record of u. S. Aviation as the safest most complex system the world and then add to that the stress of showing up to work without having to get paid because of politics. Another thing that happens is while the workers keep going to work we would not be able to add staff because we cant train. Remember, part of what is at stake in getting this right is to have air travel flow the way it supposed to. Youre in much better shape this year. Cancellation rates about 1. 6 keeping it below 2 has been a big priority for me. I want to ask you about the uaw strike but first, what is the end gain . Whats possible given the dynamics republican politics in congress. I cant speak for the republican conference but step one is to come to terms with each other. They cant even seem to agree with themselves on what to do as one member put it. They cant seem to take yes for an answer. Already have a deal. They need to honor the deal. You im curious as to where biden stands with them. Theyre asking for a 40 pay increase and a fourday week. Does the president support what they are asking for . I cant speak to for whats clear is where this administration and the president stance. They have not taken the step which is that record profits should go with. This is something that can be a benefit as well. That also is consistent with the u. S. Auto sector. Remember, the last president get a manufacturing recession. A big part of that 13 million jobs that has been created under President Bidens watch is the manufacturing jobs. We know this can be a win win. That is the case that the president is making. U. S. Secretary of transportation, pete buttigieg. Always good to see you. Thank you very much for being on this morning. Same here, thank you. We have crossed into our fourth hour as donald trump has been dealt another legal blow in a case involving his family business. More than three years after new York Attorney general Letitia James launched investigation into potential fraud a judge found the former president , his two oldest sons and the company has self liable. In his decision judge arthur gore determined that the inflated the value of their Financial Assets to statements, banks and insurance companies. He also called trumps 2. 2 billion estimation of his Holdings Part of a Fantasy World and scolded the former president , a selfproclaimed real estate genius, for overestimating the size of his manhattan apartment by 19,000 square feet. Next week the judge will rule. The former president is expected to appeal in a statement yesterday his attorney called the decision disconnected from the facts and governing law. At spring and former u. S. Attorney and legal analyst, joyce vance and also john hyland and msnbc host Simone Sanders townson. Good morning to you all. Joyce, i will begin on the legal side. Its pretty complicated. Youre talking about the overvaluing of assets, Tax Deductions and insurance. The bottom line that the judge put out in a statement is there was widespread fraud. This is a civil case. With the consequences here to the former president . This is a civil case but its designed to protect new yorks Business Climate from companies that engage in persistent levels of fraud. So the judge has granted Summary Judgment and said there is no material fact as to whether there was on growing fraud perpetrated by the trumps and their closely held employees who were all and the result is that is they lose their certificates to do business in the state of new york. That might sound like an administrative matter but under new york law they are literally unable to continue conducting business. That is the meat of this decision. What damages they will oh, tish jaynes, the new York Attorney general has sought 250 million to be disgorged by the Trump Organization and by this this will be determined that the trial will be scheduled for next week. Really this can amount to a corporate Death Penalty for trump in terms of doing business in new york. John hyland, as we watch trump for now, he continues to defy legal gravity. Lets take the fact that a judge in new york has accused him of massive fraud in his Business Dealings and he may not be able to operate in New York State anymore. Another new york judge has said he committed rape. He is being investigated for selling Nuclear Secrets. I could go down the list. The Wall Street Journal editorial page, obviously for ages, the conservative bulwark. This is the headline. A reminder from donald trump. Donald trump suggested that the nations military deserves death. He said that fbi should raid the homes of Senate Democrats. He then accuse President Biden of being manipulated by fascists. We realize no one is supposed to take his word seriously, but what if some crank does decide to shoot the man in his retirement . How about a campaign to bridge the First Amendment . I will go on and say some republicans are feeling giddy because biden is down in the polls, but many voters may have forgotten what it was like to hear from and live with mr. Trump day after day as president. Mr. Biden gets more attention and mr. Trump is ducking the gop president ial debates, but if mr. Trump is nominated again his every word will get attention and thats the baggage republicans will carry and the reason democrats think even mr. Biden can win. Again, i wanted to read what conservative Wall Street Journal editorial pages are saying and after that, to a bad headline that drops every day for donald trump and yet hes high in the polls. Lets start with this. I am out in los angeles. I headed out to see me valley to the reagan library, conservative Ronald Reagan library where they will be the second Republican Debate tonight , seven walk with republican orange stays. A big moment. There is one more schedule debate after that and probably a few more before we get to iowa but once we start measuring the time before voting on the public and side starts, its down to a few months. The caucuses in ohio happen in the middle of january. The time is getting short not for joe biden and the general election but for republicans to make a choice. The choice that as you said the conservative Wall Street Journal. They are highlighting i will tell you what i think most Republican Voters do. Right now donald trump is the most dominant president ial candidate and a party that has ever walked the face of planet earth. He has done all the things you have laid out, he has become more dominant rather than less dominant within the party. That is just a fact. We could talk about those general election polls which would mean very little, but the pulling of the republican nomination fight is clear. I think what a lot of republicans apparently would say to the conservative Wall Street Journal editorial page is blah, blah, blah. You are elitist insiders and you dont understand us. These republicans were not conservative anymore and this is the point. Not the party of reagan or the Wall Street Journal editorial page. The party, your former party is the maga party party and the biggest question is what will happen tonight on the stage . The seven leading challengers to donald trump . This question will be asked most certainly in the wake of this ruling in a civil case yesterday. Is anyone in this party be going to be able to find a way to use the mountain of evidence against trump to make a dent in his league, let alone take him down. Thats the question. So, simone, certainly a movement for the judge yesterday. Get to the heart of what trumps original formulation was . I dont think this ruling will change anyones mind or supporters about maybe i dont like him because his business was a fraud. With this idea that nothing matters, just tonight matter . Is there any republican on the stage tonight who will have a moment to actually make this race . I think that the rulings do matter and i think tonight matters. I think the ruling matters because whether or not it changes the perception of voters about donald trump to be very clear, the narrative is it hard to change. Narrative is a very powerful thing to change but the facts are the facts and whether people believe he is a rich man is one thing but he wont be a rich man after this is said and done. This is coming for his companies. This is devastating for him. When it comes to tonight on the debate stage i also think it matters because donald trump has a ceiling within the Republican Party apparatus and absolutely in the courts of the general election and so what the people on that stage say, how they stand and different him themselves and absolutely does matter. I dont know if we will see that thing from outside of work. I am looking at this week of sort of a 3x play. Had the first act trump deciding im not going to go. Second is the actual debates. Whether people stick to the losing strategy to try to make a dent. A. B. Its too late and the third act, provided tomorrow doing his Democracy Speech in arizona which i think is probably an opportunity to push back on what happens tomorrow night also on whatever trump does. And that is how the week is shaping up and what it will look like when people step back and consider the impact. How do you see these different pieces . Those are good questions. Obviously trump will be here. He is skipping the debate tonight. Hes then going to come to california on friday and appear at a lunchtime speech for the california Republican Party and then he goes to iowa to appear on sunday and the president , the former president is actively it counterprogramming when it comes down to joe biden and donald trump i heard them talking animatedly yesterday i believe about after all the crimes he has committed in the beginning of legal accountability, given the way the Electoral College is comprised you know this is a winnable race for donald trump. Has anyone been able to capitalize on some of this legal news. So far none of that has put together a strategy both send them havent even try. Chris cristi might be alone in that and also Asa Hutchinson did not make the stage so he wont even be there. Simone, lets take up johns point about the biden strategy against donald trump. Youre someone who worked in the administration as a Senior Adviser to the Vice President. What is your sense about how far joe biden himself should go in taking on donald trump about the legal problems. I think the white house has to make a calculation in terms of how those comments will be received. Donald trump is being was being pursued by the Justice Department. His entire argument is that deep state is out to get me and that biden is telling Attorney General what to do so if President Biden goes out and says anything obviously i think the waters get murky. I do think that there are other things that other democrats outside the president can say. There are things that folks at the Democratic National committee, his surrogates, can say. I believe there was a point made yesterday, can the president go out there and hit the man over the head as it relates to the legal issues . No, not in a way that keeps it free from criticism and i think they understand that. Joyce vance, i want to know what you think of this fraud case against trump and his eldest sons. What exactly might some of the consequences be that our on the forefront of the horizon . Not long off. Could this be damaging to his businesses . We need a little audio. We will get back to joyce when the audio thats taken care of. I think that is also, you know, really, this starts to get real for donald trump when we move forward on obviously a lot of things on the criminal side but when you have a judge that actually starts talking about taking away trump tower from him, his wall street the patient from him. His westchester location. In the trial. Its a matter of law and he laid it out. Of course donald trump can appeal. He has other appeals going on but it seems to me when you look at the language of that ruling we may be seeing trump tower and some of these other landmarks, trump landmarks taken away from him. Yeah, theres a long way between here and there but can you imagine that . Trump tower since the 1980s has been a monument to his success. He grew up in queens and made it in manhattan. If that were taken away all these properties in westchester that the judge said he overvalued by many times overstating the size of the apartment. If that goes away from donald trump, that is his legacy in new york city anyway. The city where he grew up. Again, a long way between here and those things being removed from his possession. All right, nbc News National affair and tell us nbc News National analyst. Coming up on morning joe, is donald trump running for retribution . He does say i am your retribution a wall street editorial said he would start arresting Senate Democrats at his homes. Our next guest says that is legitimate concern. We will talk to the secretary of defense under President Trump, mark esper about the threats facing his former boss in regards to a second term. Term. Now thats a deal worth celebrating. Man, what are you doing . get it before its gone on the subway app. vo in three seconds, pam will decide. Get it before its gone on the subway app. pam im moving closer to the grandkids wait. I got to sell the house vo dont wait, just sell directly to opendoor. Easy as pie. pam piece of cake. vo whichever. Get your competitve offer at opendoor. Com. Cmon, were right there. Cmon baby. Its the only we need. Go, go, go, go ah touchdown baby touchdown are your neighbors watching the same game . Yeah, my 5g Home Internet delays the game a bit. But you get used to it. Try these. Theyre noise cancelling earmuffs. I stole them from an airport. Its always something with you, man. Great solid greek salad . Exactly dont delay the game with verizon or tmobile 5g Home Internet. Catch it on the xfinity 10g network. We begin this morning with breaking news on capitol hill. 2024 republican hopefuls are hitting the trail. Tonight, whether you choose to watch the second Republican Debate or not, turn to msnbc. Your team will breakdown the night and discuss which candidate could pose the greatest challenge to donald trump. Tonight at 11 00 on msnbc. 23 past the hour and earlier joe read from this mornings Wall Street Journal editorial entitled a reminder om donald trump, and in it the board writes donald trump suggested the other day that general mark millet, the nations highest military officer, deserves execution as in death. We realize no one is supposed to take mr. Trumps word seriously, but what if some cranky does and decides to shoot general millie in his retirement . Joining us now, former secretary of defense under trump, mark esper. His memoir, a sacred oath , is out now. Thank you for being on the show. What you make of the Wall Street Journal warning . A lot of people say actually you are supposed to take what he says seriously. He has proved time and time again that he means what he says. Look, i think you should take his statement seriously not just because he will act on them but because he draws people around them who will try to act on them themselves. These comments about mark bailey are reprehensible. I am offended that one american would say it against another, let alone a former chief executive saying against the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, a man who has served this country, it represented reprehensible. I heard you talking about this supposedly what trump and his supporters would say is the supposed that crime committed by general millie and you pointed out that it happens. You have communications with other countries and the fact is general milley was following your orders to call his counterpart in china just like you were doing and others were doing to say we know things look crazy over here right now, but everything going to be okay. Talk about that . The other one sided happens in midoctober 2020 when there is a lot of rhetoric on both sides. We learned that the chinese are getting concerned. They dont know whats happening in washington they are concerned there might be some type of confrontation. I reached out through mid october and told him to calm down and that theres nothing going on. I wanted to prevent a misperception, accidental comput and some types of that can lead us to war. I had milley in my office one week later we reported that the conversation had gone well and thats chinese appreciate the messaging and i directed milley to do the same to his counterpart and that happened at the end of october. Again, same response. These are things we typically did whether it was the chinese or the russians. I always thought it was responsible statecraft and diplomacy. Not a general road and thats what he did for folks on the far right. Good morning, its willie giese, a lot of americans are grateful that you are in your position. That general milley were all there to serve as guardrails around this president. The concern for a second term is that none of you will be there and that someone like Michael Flynn is secretary of defense. What are your concerns about a defense point of view concerns about donald trump from a defense point of view . Should be very concerned about what this means for the republic and i said hes a threat to democracy and a threat specifically to the institutions bar nation, not least of which is the defense department. I think we have to think ahead and anticipate what that might look like which is why as you look ahead the race for the Senate Becomes important. Who will control the senate and will they approve trump nominees . All of which i suspect will be over loyalists. I think we should be concerned. Secretary, mark esper. Lets talk about the senate and republican senator tommy tuttle and his refusal to lift his blockade to allow military promotions. Yes, the senate got around that and put in a few positions in the last week or so that the vast majority of these posts have gone unfilled because of his hold. Tell us about the impacts, as you know, it has on the military and frankly what you think should be done about this . As you know i joined the other predecessors and we wrote a letter saying that this should be stopped. Its unwarranted and unprecedented in many ways in overtime would affect our readiness. Turberville has a legitimate policy concern and thats fine, but dont drag the military into it. It politicizes them in the institution. This should be taken up with civilian appointees. On the other hand i have called publicly for senator schumer to move the nominees because i think there was some politics being played on that side as well. Im glad to see that he has done that and we are moving people through but we have to resolve the bigger issue. I agree and we talked about it on the air. Schumer wants to meet needs to move some of the service add periods as you said, this playing politics with peoples lives in the military and which leads to your oped in the Washington Post. You talk about how they all volunteered and talk about how to save it. There is so many things to look at course for people watching the marine hit their numbers and nobody else. Something that you brought about really shocked me. I knew it was bad but i did know it was this bad. When you were an Army Secretary in 2017, 71 of the 34 million young people could not meet the militarys entry requirements mostly because of obesity, drug abuse and physical and Mental Health problems. That number is even higher now, about half of the 23 remaining who are eligible to serve today decided to attend college, but it seems to me that these crises are getting worse. You have a hard time finding people qualified to serve this country. Another disturbing thing is the number of americans interested in serving was 13 and today its 9 . There are big large democratic societal changes going on and we need to get a handle on it otherwise we will reach a time where we dont have enough qualified people to serve. Two we go back to a draft . I think all americans and employers should be concerned about the health of our kids and is going in the wrong direction so i think this requires really top level. I know everybody shudders when you say we need a congressional. 50 years ago to this unit we ended the draft and stood up as a volunteer force and right now its in trouble. You will see all three of the biggest services missing their marks by the thousands. This happens from time to time. Its really happening right now the. I do want this final question. I do want to have you comment on i will say a certain party. Some members continue to attack our men and women in uniform saying they are weak, saying they are woke, saying they are tommy thomasville, someone reading a poem on a ship. Can you talk about just how tough and prepared and how ready our men and women in uniform are . Sure. Have the greatest military in the world if not in history. They are well prepared to prevent protect the country. The Young Americans that serve are the best and brightest. If you look at our qualification sanders which is what 77 percent cant do today. There is also a woke nature, drag shows and things and i think general milley and secretary austin have jumped on it as quickly as they could and said no more. When i joined the military at the age of 18 what bonded us together was that one mission, that one both to country to defend the constitution, thats what we need to rally the American People around. We should not be attacking the military. Weather comes from the far right or far left. We should celebrate and really honor those young men and women who are serving our country. Here here. Spirit. A sacred oath, his new book. Thank you for being on the show this morning. Thank you both. Thank you. Strikeouts went okay out of north korea. The Associated Press reports travis king, the american soldier who crossed into north korea two months ago is back in u. S. Custody. Thats according to two u. S. Officials with one saying king was transferred to american custody in china. Earlier this morning the Korean Central News Agency said north korea would expel the 23year old. We will be following that and coming up police say shoplifters hit Stores Across philadelphia prompting dozens of arrests. We will tell you what spot the widespread looting and which big retailer is now closing its doors in response to recent outbreaks of theft and violence. Morning joe will be right back. 38 past the hour. Police in philadelphia say several stores were looted after large crowds broke into them. It comes as major retailers like target say they are shuttering some locations blaming what they call a rise in organized retail crime. Nbc News National correspondent Miguel Almaguer has more. Reporter overnight philadelphia road Police Responded to a scene. People Looting Stores and damaging property. Authorities say they had multiple locations including a footlocker and apple store as well as a lululemon. These kinds of smash and grab crimes have become all too common. Forcing a growing number of retailers to try to combat the thefts. This morning, target is taking action to reduce retail crime. The Company Announcing it will shut down nine stores by the end of october. Three in San Francisco and portland, two in seattle and one in new york. The company blaming the closures on theft. This threatens the safety of our team and guests, says target. This is crazy. They are locking up the toothpaste. Since wendy my local target lock every. Target says despite our efforts we continue to face fundamental challenges to operating the stores. Target is not alone. In 2021 walgreens closed five locations in San Francisco over shoplifting and while walmart and nordstrom have close major locations either blamed crime. Still, in a newly released survey conducted by the National Retail federation, 80 of responding retailers said shoplifters have become aggressive and 20 said they had to close some locations due to crime. Unprecedented levels of crime and violence are being seen in stores. Reporter now is another major retailer shuts down Stores Retail crime trends to knock the industry off target. Unbelievable. Well, we have talked about this. You look at the stores that target shutdown. Most on the west coast. The scenes out of portland have been heinous. We have seen the same out of San Francisco. Seattle has some of those problems. It is so crazy that every time you bring this up there will be someone that says oh San Francisco is safer than ever before and portland is a paradise. No, its chaos. And we talked about this before. They have passed laws that punishes this sort of behavior last. They have elected d. A. S that have a permissive attitude and then they insult us by telling us that what we see with our eyes is not really whats happening and it is. I know its costing these Retail Stores 1. 5, 1. 6 billion dollars per year and im outraged by that because you are supposed to protect guests the state is supposed to protect peoples property and property rights. I am more outraged by the chaos that continues to occur. Reelected gavin newsom, he wants to run for president . Great. Fix the chaos in your state first and dont tell me its the state legislatures problem. They all say that. Im sure to go on a rant but gavin newsom will tell you its the liberals from it is insanity, these people need to stop making excuses and start arresting people and, oh no, start sending people to jail. Oh my god, how shocking . If somebody breaks the law, have we become to enlightened, right . And i will be honest. Im not liberal. I was against this socalled criminal reform stuff that trump and progressives were pushing before because i thought this was going to happen. This is whats happening. I was turning to john. He handed me the New York Post on this topic. Is a big target in east harlem opened 10 years ago and its closing because of exactly what you are talking about. When you look at that piece in the video and people saying going around target and saying cases are locked, yeah, everyone steals our stuff and its not worth it for us to leave it open. Thats just the reality and it turns out if you tell people in San Francisco we wont prosecute you if you still less than 850 worth of merchandise, they will take you up on that because they know they can walk up the store and nothing will happen to them. And its crazy. You can still stuff and its a misdemeanor. And again, if you are permissive, if you said the bar low, people will step over it. And it created chaos. Im just curious, especially portland, oregon, how long will they put up with that . How long will they put up with the chaos and the madness . And its spreading across the u. S. And every time i talk to a mayor and ask whats going on they say is the City Councils fall. Talk to a governor, state legislatures fault. Really, come on . Lets bring in our coanchor, andrew sorkin, i dont expect him to rant and rave as much as i have. I guess its politically incorrect to talk about how we should protect people who go shopping whether its at walgreens or lululemon or costco. I will make the same rant that you will. The ceos of these companies are unwilling to make that rant because they fear it will become a political rant. Most of the states have been considered blue states where these issues have occurred and mostly the ceos have been unwilling to be outspoken on a political basis around this idea that so many of the shoplifting efforts turn out to be misdemeanors. Andrew, is it really political because i think democrats, they are just outrageous. This is what i think. They need to get off of twitter or wherever they are because 90 of americans are sick and tired of this. Everybody sick and tired. Ceos are so scared in this case potentially of having and maybe its the progressive left, come after them at this point. Both parties on either end are so scared but i think thats one of the reasons on the political side of this you see them be quiet. There are two other major things going on thats conspiring for this to happen. One is that all of these companies have made it a policy for their security not to try to block people leaving the store. That is a significant shift in policy over the last five years. It used to be that there were security people who would stop you if you tried to steal. Today they are saying take it, we dont want a problem. The other major problem and component part of this is the reason why we see such organized steps, not just people walking through and stealing, they are taking it and then they are fencing it on amazon and they are fencing it on ebay and they are fencing it on all these different online operators where third parties can sell and so theres a Big Question Mark as to what has to be done on that and to try to really shift the balance of power here because if you could turn around and just go sell the stuff and they dont have any responsibility for that, that unto itself is a problem. And by the way i can hear people complaining about what we are saying. I i will put it out there. Jacksonville has high crime rates. Monroe, louisiana, the same. There are other places where crime has gone up. Washington, d. C. Is just outrageous. The quality of life has dropped so much. Thats not a blue state of course but this is a problem though and it continues to grow and i will tell you, part of the reason why and this also just drives americans crazy, part of the reason we say take our stuff is because that at the beginning when we tried to stop him them, we had people get killed. It is beyond my comprehension how you are a mayor of a city or you are a governor of a states and you allow this to happen in your state. Its just beyond my comprehension, andrew and like you said, a lot of americans regardless of whether they are democrats or republicans we are upset. Now lets talk about that tc going after amazon. This will be an antitrust for the ages. Frankly even the paper she wrote before about now is on before, she is alleging in this case that amazon is on barely keeping prices high in certain cases, on amazon itself and in other cases artificially keeping prices high on other retailers so the prices can be lower on amazon at the same time. The big question about the case of amazon will be if its a monopoly. Amazon will tell you that they represent only 4 of the Retail Market in america counting all the bricks and Mortar Stores in the country and that they have very Little Market power. On the other end lena con has defined the market as online superstores. While there are not many so the question is how much power do they really have. Is it that we should think about amazon as a place that when you are there you are stuck or if you dont like the price of like the price of a product on amazon youre going to go elsewhere . It will be going on for years. Yeah. You know, andrew, i know weve got to go. Ive just got to say, though, i support as you know, i support aggressive actions against big tech. There are monopoly there is. This seems like a harder argument. Amazon does have competitors. They are 4 of the marketplace. Walmart and others try to compete. There is competition in this space. This is going to be a very tough case. I dont think theres anybody in the antitrust world that thinks this is an easy case to make. Effectively longterm weve had lower prices as a function of amazon, which shes arguing is that were not seeing these little incremental price increases in ways maybe you buy some vitamins and you wouldnt notice its 2 more here. It may be on a big tv purchase or a high priced item that you start to look around, but otherwise you dont, and what does that mean, and is that insidious in the marketplace . I do think this is going to be a very hard one for her to win. The truth is shes brought a number of big cases and has lost. All right, cnbcs andrew ross sorkin, thank you very much for all of that. Coming up, a look at at running club unlike any other. The 1,000 mile club is made up of inmates inside californias san quentin prison. Thats the subject of a new documentary, and we will speak with the director and one of the subjects of the film next on morning joe. Were back in two minutes. Listen up, everybody. Weve got the Half Marathon in 32 days. And then you got six weeks, the marathon. My goal is to run under three hours, maybe qualify for boston. Its the hardest thing ive ever done. Watch your lane, fellas. Even some of the melees and the riots in here have nothing how i felt after that marathon. 21. 5. Ill be 86 years old, if i keep running ill be all right. Wow. Thats a clip from the new documentary 26. 2 to life. The film takes us inside californias san quentin prison, and its 1,000 mile club. It tells the story of inmates serving life sentences who are training for a marathon as they seek redemption. Joining us now is the director and the producer of the documentary christine yoo, and one of the films subjects, former san quentin prison inmate markell taylor. Thank you both so much for joining us. Christine, i get it. Im a runner, but im curious as to what drew you to this project and why this club has had the amazing impact that it has had on the inmates and the prison. Yeah, first off, thank you so much for having me. Ive been watching you guys for many years, so this is a thrill for us. Yes, i you know, my relationship with the prison system started more than 20 years ago. I have a friend who was wrongfully convicted. He was sentenced to 271 years plus four life sentences in the state of california. Of course that left a major impact on me, also fellow korean american, and so i became really interested to explore, you know, how does one live a life with a life sentence. What does that really look like for people. And i guess the opportunity to explore that question came to me when i came across a gq Magazine Article about the marathon inside san quentin state prison. I was im not a marathoner, but i certainly do run and can understand the benefits of people running in prison. As to why the club has a 0 recidivism rate while the National Average after five years is usually 67 , i think it really comes down to the idea of community and this idea that volunteers and community engagement, it creates continuity for people and a place to be, you know, runners as opposed to only criminals. So markell, you actually learned the nickname earned the nickname markell the gazelle in the marathon. Obviously you did extremely well, but talk about how you got involved in it and how it changed your time there, how it clanged your life. Yes, i would like to also thank you and im extremely appreciative to be here today and extremely grateful as well. Yes, i started a while back. A friend of mine who after being denied several times to the board to try to get released out of prison, he committed suicide so i started running, and then along with that, a month or so later, a friend of mine who was one of my spiritual brothers inside the prison who was already a part of the running club asked me to join, and he said if you join, not only do you get the benefit of running and what all that entails, you also can get a hat and tennis shoes, and that was something that he didnt know that i liked on the streets, and it was pretty good stuff to have, you know, gear. And youve stayed with it . Is it something that continues to impact your life . Yes, yes, its therapeutic for me. Like it said, it brings community, it brings networking. It brings possibilities and hope and it helps you to stay accountable because if you can commit yourself to getting out and running six, seven miles with somebody, you have to be there and meet them people to go run six, seven miles. If not, then youre not accountable. Youre not responsible, youre not respecting your family, community, so its like its one of those things like if you tell someone youre going to do it, you got to get out there and run. The documentary, 26. 2 to life is in select theaters now. Christine yoo, thank you so much. Markelle taylor, thank you both. So fascinating. Thank you all. I cant wait to see it, christine makes such a great point because running isnt just community, it is personal goals. Its accountability. It like brings purpose to your day. I havent met one person that i i try and get a lot of people to run including my best friend, and it literally its life changing if you latch onto it, and i could see how this would really work within all the prison systems. It sounds inspiring. I cant wait to watch it. Jonathan lemire, give us final thoughts for the day and what youre looking at. I think today is one that shows where the Republican Party is in 2023, another day with a devastating legal headline for donald trump, and yet a debate tonight where with few exceptions, none of his fellow republican will take him on. Cassidy hutchinson, been through a lot of already. The first meeting cassidy had, the first meeting Sarah Matthews for trump had was with liz cheney, not staff of the committee. It was liz cheney herself recruiting women, im not sure why, but to be the ones to stand up. Thats amazing. That does it for us this morning. Well see you tomorrow morning. Ana cabrera picks up the coverage right now. Right now