I will see you at the end of tomorrow. Of tomorrow for most of his life, donald trump is sort himself as a successful businessman he did it first as a minor new york celebrity, and then as a reality tv host. And then however improbably, as candidate for the night and states. Trumps main asset, his Selling Point if you will, the reason were supposed to take him seriously, he was the successful leader of the Real Estate Empire that bears his name. But today, a judge in new york found that trumps Business Empire has built, in part, on rampant fraud. And the judge ordered the dissolution of trumps business is in the state of new york. Heres what he wrote. Ordered, any certificates filed by any of the entity defendants, or by any other entity controlled or been officially owned by donald j trump, donald trump jr. , eric trump, former Trump Organization cfo allen weisselberg, in trumps aviation controller jeffrey mcconney. Cancel. To put that in laymans terms, for now, the Trump Organization effectively has an outdoor order sign hanging on. At least in terms of its businesses in New York State. Which, again, in this moment, at this hour, is a fairly staggering development for the man whose entire reputation was built on his alleged business acumen. It is also not at all that this judge has decided. Because of this order, several of the crown jewels in trumps Real Estate Empire, the properties upon which he built his brand, those properties are now in limbo. The precise impact of todays ruling has yet to be seen. Trump could lose control of properties including trump park avenue, which is his luxury skyscraper in manhattans lenox hill neighborhood, he could lose control of 40 wall street, the historic tower trump owns in the financial district. He can lose control of his Seven Springs golf club in bedford, new york. Even his apartment in trump tower, the gilded bunker, and which he has sought refuge in his home city. Trump could lose control of that. Maybe even the golden toilet to. Todays ruling was not good, for mr. Trumps defense team. And the judge here, judge arthur anger on, the made very clear what he thought of the defense. Also, again, as part of his ruling. The judge accused the defense of Living In A Fantasy World not the real world he accused the defense of extra press conduct, and reliance on bogus arguments. And intentional in blatant disregard of Controlling Authority in law of the case. He admonished trumps legal team, and no uncertain terms, and wrote, sophisticated council should have known better. Again, not a great day for the trump defense. The Team Announced tonight, they plan to appeal this ruling, but for now, all of this looks like pretty good news for new York Attorney general, letitia james. His case against the Trump Organization is expected to officially go to trial on monday. Which is six days from today. Judge engoron, the same judge that accused trumps team of Living In A Fantasy World, he will be the Presiding Judge in that case. I love that trial, we are likely to find out the fate of trumps empire, whether he will lose control of his numerous properties, and whether he and his sons will ever be allowed to do business in New York State again. Joining me now, our laura jarrett, senior Legal Correspondent for nbc news, an investigative journalist, suzanne craig. One of the lead reporters in the New York Times pulitzer prizewinning investigation to trumps finances. Sue, laura, im so thrilled to have you. Help me understand, i read this ruling. Ive gotten slightly better at understanding, this one was tough for me. Im not gonna lie. Laura, i understood this to be a fairly devastating rebuke for trumps defense, is that how youre reading it . I think the plain language, the scathing language, in particular, the judge seems angry that his words werent taken seriously. Overt over, get essentially telling them, i warned you about these arguments last time. And yet, you continue to make them. Theyre borderline frivolous. So much so, he has ordered sanctions against the lawyers. This is not something you see often. The judges clearly so angry about what he calls glaring misrepresentations. Thats an embarrassing thing to receive as an attorney. You never want to have that associated with your name. In defiance of 75 . People who signed on to the briefs that he said were borderline frivolous. I think the question mark, i think, for what susan i have been talking about, what is the practical implication of having a Business Council . For all intents and purposes, the judge that is going to be trying this case, clearly has strong feelings about the defendants. In their arguments. Which does not bode well for what is supposed to go to trial on monday. Whats left of this case. Yeah, i mean, if im trumps defense, im not excited about monday. Given that this is what we got from the judge today. Its not a jury trial, by the way, its from the bench. The guy who had it today, the judge, hes the decider, hes there to decide the rest. How are you, again, theyre a lot of questions. The wording there about, in our script as i read, that its very careful. Its for now, its an out of order signed hanging on the trump i want to be careful about that. There can be immediately be appeals. Thats the first one, of course, hes going to appeal it. There is going to be a receiver put in. A receiver to control the assets . Right. Its going to be in the interest of, i think, in the short term, for those properties to do well. Were not done all of a sudden see an immediate sailor anything like that. Theres gonna be, if there is a sale, if thats what result, its gonna be a very controlled sale. Potentially, the proceeds of the sale, of, say the Commercial Area of trump, Seven Springs, the estate that he owns, or the golf courses, could go as discouragement to play whatever fine, ultimately happens at the end of the court case. Can we talk about that for a second . Discouragement, i got caught up in. That effectively, Laetitia James is calling for two and 50 million. A lot of money. A huge question about how liquid trump is at this stage. And weather, to your point, he may need to sell off some of these properties, is that right . If, in fact, the judge rules in favor of Laetitia James. I think if the end of, it we keep rolling, theres appeals, we could very well see the sale of some of his new york assets that, potentially, could go to pay for things paying the fine. Which is a huge fine. Its a massive fine. Its not tax deductible. Its not a good day. Were not heading towards a moment now where, oh, that fine wont be to 50. It might be 100. This was devastating today. He was found liable on the fraud stuff. The main charge, gonna be some other trial, likely will start monday. Theres one legal maneuver coming this week. That we could expected to go ahead monday. And theres gonna be other things, that are going to be adjudicated. The main one was that fraud charge. Thats done. To the question of what practically happens to the businesses, laura, it seems like a very real possibility that the trumps will not be allowed to do business in the state of new york evergreen. Yeah how are you reading this sort of tea leaves in this as it pertains to that ultimate question . Well, i think thats part of why this was always the Wildcard Case for the business in the family. Theres been obviously so much focus on the four criminal indictments. And for good reason. The criminal cases. This is a civil case. This is not about jail time. But it is about the business, the reputation, the family steak. An interest in something that clearly was important to them. Look. If youre a lender, reading this, is this a business that you want to engage with anymore . And perhaps they already have reputational risk. And their point, all along, look, you shouldve done around due diligence. You shouldnt have relied on our statements of financial condition. You shouldve dug in for yourself. Truly, if youre a lender, looking at. This is a business that you want to engage with . Well, lets talk about the statements of financial condition. All along, this is the juicy part of the discussion, truly is, this is the thing upon which so much of trumps defense rests here. The statements of financial condition, they are not independently audited. They are meaningless. In the judge today ripped that argument apart. I think he says, the defendants reliance on these worthless disclaimers is, in and of itself, worthless. It was incredible. The hearing for what came today was on friday. I was there for. It just to hear trumps lawyers at the beginning actually both sides felt like they started with the phrase, we feel like weve walked through the looking glass. It was really, like a house of mirrors. The way they were just going through all the reasons why these Financial Statements were worthless. They were caveats on them. Well, just a lot of variation. The banks to their own due diligence. Themselves. They submitted all these documents, knowing, these were just a little bit off. This was something that is maybe worth 20 million, he said its worth 150 million. At one point, the judge, and it we all shouldve seen this coming, the judge, i dont want to paraphrase, it was so good. He was so angry, he started pounding on his desk and looking at the Trump Lawyers he said. You cannot make false statements and use them in business. Thats what this statute prohibits. He was furious. Just shut up. There is no gray area for him. No, he was really angry. They had all these excuses for why these Financial Statements were essentially worthless. I think the main one, the banks do their own due diligence. Will you still submit to them as a document to a financial institution, in other cases insurance companies. There are rules about that. Thats what the judge was saying. He was four years. That portends very poorly for what else needs to be resolved in this trial on monday. Its part of why, again, the fact that its a civil case, makes a difference here. The bar is lower. The judge makes it clear, intent is now required. Materiality, meaning, it actually matter to the party, so, the question is, well, if the lenders and the banks werent upset, they didnt sue, they dont have any damage, the judge has none of that actually matters. The purposes of just the plain vanilla fraud case, you dont need any of. That now, you may need it for some of the other claims that are actually going to trial on monday. As for just, that all you needed was that there were false representations, and thats it. Its a great point. In this case, you think of a normal trial, who are the victims, the bags in this case, the loans actually performed. Theyre not that was the case trump is making. Nobody lost any money, with the problem here . Well, it doesnt matter. Shut down by the judge. I would ask, laura, there are outstanding appellate issues here. Can you talk a little bit about the parallel avenue that trump is pursuing to get out of . This sure. Thats the right. They can try to appeal this. One whos to say, you know, what a panel do. Theyve tried another avenue, to try to go after the judge. Personally. And theyre suing him. Well see how that turns out. Does it look at where he so far as a strategy thus far. Well, you can correct me if im wrong. It seems like this is all speed to go on monday. It feels that way. Donald trump is suing the judge, he did this before fridays hearing on this. He knew. I wouldve been dissipated this. He anticipated something wasnt gonna go his way. Now, the Appellate Court, hes asking for one of it was, just more time. The time is limited. Thats how the court, in terms of what cases could potentially be looked at. The timeframe, and what fell where. I know i dont see the Appellate Court now, making predictions. We love. That very careful. I dont see this is gonna get moved. Unless you get a, state this is going full bore. Assuming the suing the judge rule personally, and right of the ruling that just handed down. I mean, i dont know legally, politically speaking, in terms of a clash of personalities, not a wise move, given the judge giving ruling from the bench on monday. I think he knew this is gonna be a loss. He knew that and not much to lose in terms of, i dont think it wouldve made much of a difference. Like, i think he knew something was coming. And he wants the Appellate Court to rule that the judge should be removed. I will ask you, because you followed this case so exhaustively for years now. Is this, i mean, could this be the sort of finale for the Trump Organization that were looking at right here . I said could, i did say it will. Given the gravity of whats at stake here . Im gonna say, first of all, obviously, its not good. I left work, i work for the New York Times for 15 minutes. You know when you come over here past any buildings that of trumps on the name on it, he does have significant assets here. But a lot of his businesses is conducted outside of the state. Thats important. Business includes largely golf courses. Elsewhere in the country. And other properties. I dont know if the majority is open, i see the majority of his not in new york. So, he still has assets that he can sell, if theres a fine that comes from this. Hes also, you know, i think smartly, from his point of view, switched his lending. So his lenders were anticipating this. His loans have been moved to institutions where this is baked in. I dont know. I think were also, and this is, again donald trump for a long way from the end. Theres gonna be appeals, theres gonna be for, now receivers gonna come in, theyre gonna be stewards of these properties. May one day be sold, i think were a long way from. That just important people know that. Its a big headline today, still a lot. Perhaps the end of one chapter. And a longer saga, and i thank you for being narrators for all of this. My friends. Laura jarrett, sue craig, thank you both for your wisdom and thoughts. We have much more still ahead this evening. Including the ex president s latest legal brief, claiming that he has not intimidated anyone. As he threatens prosecutors and flirts with buying a gun. That is still ahead. First, why dont you resign, sir . Senator . Im innocent. Why were the gold bars there . Why were there gold bar . s a least 24 senators are now calling for their colleague from new jersey to resign. Michelle goldberg is here on that. Coming up next. [bones cracking] tense music one aleve works all day so i can keep working my magic. Just one aleve. 12 hours of uninterrupted pain relief. Aleve. Who do you take it for . A mystery jessie loves playing detective. But the real mystery was her irritated skin. So, we switched to tide pods free gentle. It cleans better, and doesnt leave behind irritating residues. And its gentle on her skin. Tide free gentle is epa safer choice certified. Its got to be tide. From pep in their step to shine in their coats, when people switch their dogs food to the farmers dog, the effects can seem like magic. But theres no magic involved. dog bark its just smarter, healthier pet food. Its amazing what real food can do. Only the new sleep number smart beds let you both sleep at your ideal level of comfort. Its just smarter, healthier pet food. 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Why wont you resign, sir . Because im innocent. Whats wrong with you guys . Why were there gold bridge there . Democratic senator, bob menendez, trying to get the Elevator Doors to close as quickly as possible today. Telling reporters he will not be resigning, even though he faces federal bribery charges. Including allegations that he used his position as the chairman of the Senate ForeignRelations Committee to aid the government of egypt. In return, the indictment alleges, Senator Menendez received gifts, including cash and gold bars. In bars of gold. As of today, at least 24 Democratic Senators have called for menendez to step down, including cory booker, the junior senator from new jersey, who has long been a close friend of menendez. Even appeared as a Character Witness for him in 2017, when Senator Menendez first faced unrelated corruption charges. Menendez and his codefendants, including his wife nadine menendez, are scheduled to make an appearance in court tomorrow, for their arraignment. Joining me now, New York Times columnist an msnbc contributor, michelle goldberg. Michelle, it is always good to see you. I know you have a new piece in the times today calling on Senate Leadership to force menendez to step down. I kind of wonder at this point, what you think the calculation is for senator chuck schumer, the Majority Leader in the senate, and why he has not called and ensured menendezs ouster. Im not sure. Ive called on him to demand that menendez resigned. Im not sure that he can force menendez to resign, which may, in fact, be part of his calculation. If hes trying to ease him out behind the scenes, maybe its better for him to hold his fire. I think thats understandable. I am really heartened that, just from the time i started writing that piece, when it was like three or four senators who had called for menendez to resign, its now close to half the caucus. It should really be all of the caucus. This is such a Black And White issue. Yes, you have the right to a fair trial. You do not have a right to win a seat in the United States senate, when you cannot answer for such deeply incriminating evidence against you. The answers that hes given, really defiant quest, Press Conference or just a laughable. Yeah, i want to talk about the answers in a second. Those have their own long tale in a way, as well, politically speaking. I, i think a lot of people understand the point youre making, in terms of public trust. Its not a given. Once you lose, it you dont get to be a u. S. Senator. At the same time, theres a clear political dimension to all of this. As well. I know on one hand, the calls on the part of democrats, though not all of them, to get menendez to leave, in, fact the federal investigation itself, it is to reveal the republican assertions that the doj is somehow a rigged against republicans, it reveals that to be patently false. A federal mastication of a sitting democratic u. S. Senator. That is a good thing, i think, for democrats. On the other hand, the fact that he still in the senate, undermines the larger democratic ire and anger directed at President Trump, former President Trump, for his misdeeds, shall we say at this point. I wonder which you think is the more potent narrative at this moment . The rigging of one institution, or the idea that trump in the focus must be on trump at all times . Well, i think the way to keep the focus on trumps for the Democratic Party to be united in repudiating menendez. That i think is the real difference between the parties. I do think theres more corruption on the Republican Party. But the Republican Party doesnt have a monopoly on corruption. The real difference is, or at least should be, how the two parties handle corruption. Presumably, its a democratic president ial candidate was found guilty of fraud in Heads Companies threatened with dissolution, that would be counting against him in a democratic primary. Similarly, the thing that somebody like George Santos would not be allowed to stay on the democratic side. And were gonna see if thats true with menendez. Theres also another thing that i think that is happening thats very interesting. Which is that, on the one hand, you have more and more democrats, although not as many as i think we should see, calling for menendez to resign. At the same time, youre starting to see republicans calling on him not to resign. Yes. Theres two pieces there. On the one hand, they understand that menendez is now a bird into the democrats. And its just a political liability for them, as long as he stays in the senate. But it also seems that the Republican Party is increasingly committed to the principle that a mere indictment on serious crimes should not preclude you serving in the United States government. Strange bed fellows. Now the republicans are coming to Bob Menendezs aide. I do have to ask you, because you highlight this in your piece, the excuses that menendez or the reasons menendez gives for his targeting. All read an excerpt from her story. Menendez insisted that staying in the senate, and offered a preposterous excuse for the hundreds of thousands of dollars the fbi agents found at his house. He said he kept it for emergencies, because of the history of my family Facing Confiscation in cuba. He also claimed to be the victim of racist persecution by those who simply cannot accepted a first generation Latino American from Humble Beginnings could rise to be a u. S. Senator. A deployment of Identity Politics so audaciously cynical it belongs in a caustic tv farce. It is audaciously cynical. I also think, It Inflicts Real Harm On Public figures who are the victim of Racist Targeting. Right . It renders it in some ways meaningless. Its a mockery of it. No, it absolutely makes a mockery of it. Of course, Racist Targeting israel. The idea that Racist Targeting is the reason that bob menendez has been indicted again. In the reason that hes been found by the fbi to have his gold bars in hundreds of thousands of dollars of cash stashed in his house. The idea that he could now plead Identity Politics, yeah, its so deeply cynical. Again, it shows that he really has nothing. If he had even, not even an explanation, but the ghost of a rationale, we wouldve heard about now. Ill just say, as someone whose family fled our country in felt targeted and were seeking refuge in the United States, there were no gold bars and ever in my family house as far as i knew. Im not a u. S. Senator the. Michelle goldberg, thank you for that time, my friend. Thank you. Still ahead, Donald Trumps lawyers are arguing in court that he is never intimidated anyone. The former president s record, however, suggests otherwise. First, union joe walked the picket line in michigan today. The states senior senator, Debbie Stabenow, joins me live, right after this quick break. Alex mateo, hey hows business . Great. You know that loan has really worked wonders. Thats what u. S. Bank is for. And youre growing in california . Yup, socal, norcal. Monterey . All day. A branch in ventura . Thats for sureah. Atms in fresno . Fresyes. Encinitas . Yes, indeedus. Anaheim . Big time. More guacamole . Im on a rollay. How about you . Im just visiting. President biden made history in u. S. Bank. Ranked 1 in Customer Satisfaction with Retail Banking in california by j. D. Power. Michigan today, when he became the first sitting president in modern history to walk a picket line. Biden addressed members of the united auto workers, who are striking against the big three automakers outside a General Motors plant near detroit. You save the Automobile Industry back in 2008 and before, you made a lot of sacrifices. You gave up a lot. And the companies were in trouble. Now, theyre doing incredibly well. And guess what . You should be doing incredibly well to. You deserve what youve learned, and youve earned a heck of a lot more than youre getting paid now. President bidens decision here, to join the autoworkers on the picket line, could have farreaching consequences, not only for the Labor Movement in this country. But for 2024 president ial politics as well. Michigan is an important swing state, and autoworkers represent a slice of the electorate that remains key to both parties. By way of evidence, donald trump will be in michigan tomorrow at an event billed as an address to autoworkers instead of attending the second republican president ial primary debate. Joining me now, michigans democratic senator, Debbie Stabenow. Senator stabenow, so great to have you here tonight. I would love to get your thoughts on the sort of political peril this moment represents, for both democrats and republicans. I mean, i spoke with the White House Press secretary, karine jeanpierre, last week, and asked her explicitly if President Biden walked a picket line. And i did not get a response. I wonder if youve been advising the white house that President Biden needed to go to the state, and what you think about how he is handling this moment . Well, alex, first of all, its really great to be with you i love your show. I have to say president was in his element today, anytime hes with Working Men And Women he deeply connects with people and ive been one of the folks that has urged him to come, assuming that this is something that the uaw wants. And the u. S. President , sean, faint has indicated that. The president had a standing invitation. So i think it was great that he was there. We know its historic, but what i think is also historic, weve got a manufacturing renaissance going on in this country right now. Over 800,000 new manufacturing jobs. So, with the strike is about, making sure that these are good paying jobs. That people are getting their fair share. The whole Auto Industry should do. Will they cant do well unless the workers are doing well. You mentioned donald trump, i dont have to say, its unbelievable to me. He comes in, says he wants to talk to the workers. He goes to a nonunion facility, and now, it looks like hes being backed by all the folks who are anti labor. All the groups that are anti labor, into unions. And hes going to speak, so, i mean, bring it on. This is a guy who said that we should let the autos go bankrupt. I was deeply involved in leading that auto rescue. He said, let him go bankrupt. And then later, on he actually said, that instead of going to mexico, why dont the Companies Just move from michigan, with union labor, and go to the south. With non union labor. And then they could cut their costs. And weve, got so many things he said over the years. And actions he took, that showed he was anti labor. Hes the only president in our lifetime that left as a president , with fewer jobs in our country. Then when he started. And right now, in addition to manufacturing, weve got 13 and a half million new jobs. And counting. In our country. So, i think its great. Let donald trump come into michigan. Yeah, i have to follow up on. That trumps record on, you know, union labor, is abysmal. The fact that hes going to a nonunion play tomorrow, tells you the story of all of it. He appoints Eugene Scalia as labor secretary. He makes it harder for Union Workers to organize. And yet, senator, he still has support from the Rank And File. Estimates that i think offered a third of the Rank And File maybe supporting trump in 2024. And the fact, is in 2020, exciple 56 of uaw households voted for biden. But 40 backed trump. To me, that says its not actually about policy, its about some sort of Sociocultural Feeling that they get from each candidate. I would love to know, from your perspective, why trump has this sticking power with, you know, bluecollar, white voters, especially men, especially noncollege educated men. Well, alex, im enough to say, despite these early polls that are all over the place right now. I think we have to roll them up and throw them away. I see a lessening of his grip. Its true. In michigan, any labor union, were gonna people that are democrats, people who are republicans. More democrats than republicans. But when you talk about one third of the uaw supporting trump, that means two thirds are supporting joe biden. So, i mean, thats about the ratio that we see all the time. In michigan, frankly, its a purple state, we have been so excited, and done so much organizing in recent years. That we have beat the odds in 2020. With President Biden getting more votes in a president ial year. Than any other time. 22, we beat the odds on more votes, more people coming out to vote than at any time before. In a non president ial year. I can assure, you we have to work hard all the time. Weve got to tell the story. It is very difficult, it seems like its always easy to get attention for bad news. We got a lot of good news to tell and we just have to keep telling it. Rebuilding america bringing jobs home lifting people up, donald trump actually cut the overtime pay rules. Cut overtime pay when he was in. President Biden In August just raised overtime pay. We can go point by point. Its really our job everybodys job to tell the story. No more top down, no more triple down, its right aiming at the middle class. Growing the middle class. Bringing down costs. Taken on the drug companies, taken on big oil. So i could go on im sure i could go on and on. Because theres so much to tell. And i think we need to tell it. Please come back on the show. Nobody is a better interlocutor for all the things that have been done by the democratic president. I think, starting on the pecking line is a good place to get everybody to focus. Senator Debbie Stabenow of michigan michigan, thank you so much for your thoughts tonight. I appreciate it. My pleasure. Still ahead this evening, the symbolism behind trumps choice of Campaign Stop in South Carolina. The threat of violence against his detractors. That is next. E you take a step back. I made that. With your very own online store. I sold that. And you can manage it all in one place. I built this. And it was easy, with a partner that puts you first. Godaddy. When you have chronic kidney disease. There are places youd like to be. Like here. And here. Not so much here. If you have chronic kidney disease, farxiga can help you keep living life. Farxiga and farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure, which can lead to dialysis. Farxiga can cause serious side effects including dehydration, Urinary Tract or genital Yeast Infections in women and men, and low blood sugar. Ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may lead to death. A rare lifethreatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. Stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this bacterial infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. Farxiga can help you keep living life. Ask your doctor for farxiga for chronic kidney disease. If you cant afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. Farxiga there is big box gun and pan. There is holy city firearms. Or probably the best name in the bunch, there is ammo dump. There are a lot of options when it comes to gun shops in and around somerville, South Carolina. So, why did former President Trump choose this one . The yesterday, before speaking at a Campaign Rally in South Carolina, trump made a pit stop for a tour in a photo op and a gun shop called, the palm meadows state armory. This is a photo of one of the guns a white gunman used a month ago today, in jacksonville, florida, to kill three black people in a dollar general, in a predominantly black neighborhood. The gunman, who fatally shot himself after that attack, he left behind a racist manifesto. As the Jacksonville Sheriff said, this shooting was racially motivated. And he hated black people. This is a closer picture of the gun that shooter used a month ago today. And above the handpainted swastika, you can see the logo. Palmetto state armory. It was headline news, that at least one of the shooters guns came from the Palmetto State Armory. To be clear, Palmetto State Armory is a South Carolina chain. Theyre a lot of locations. But also, there are lots of gun stores to choose from in that town. Minutes away from one another. So, it feels like a choice that exactly a month later, donald trump chose this particular shop for his photo op. That is not the only thing this particular gun shop is known for. In 2009, South Carolina republican, joe wilson, shouted, you lie, and president obama during a congressional address. That was celebrated on the right. Palmetto state armory had its first Big National News moment by Commemorating Wilsons Outburst on a custom engraved ar15 accessory. More recently, Palmetto State Armory has made news for marketing its product toward the Anti Government group, the Boogaloo Boys. Boogaloo is a predominantly white ring white right wing accelerationist movement. Whose members say they want a violent Second Civil War against the federal government. You might know the Boogaloo Boys from their Signature Combination of hawaiian shirts and military gear. It is not on sale anymore, in 2020, the Palmetto State Armory sold this gun in a hawaiian shirt to print called the big a glue aloha. Big igloo aloha, which sounds a lot like bubba. Palmetto state army did not respond to requests for comments. When it covers when the trace began reporting on the sort of merchandise in 2020. Given all of that, it feels very pointed that President Trump, former President Trump, picked this particular gun shop just yesterday. It maybe even feels like trump was sending a message that is not the first time. Last, night trumps lawyers filed their opposition to special counsel jack smiths request for a gag order. In a federal election interference case. Smith had asked the judge to restrict trumps speech outside of, Court To Prevent Trump from intimidating witnesses, or influencing potential jurors. In response, trumps lawyers argued, President Trump has not intimidated anyone. Theyre essentially said, because jack smiths team didnt directly tie trump to any specific act of intimidation, he cant be penalized for it. That is exactly how trump operates. As his former lawyer and fixer Michael Cohen put it years ago, trump speaks in code. Trump didnt have to tell the proud boys to come to the capitol armed on january 6th. He told them to stand back and stand by and that january 6th would be wild. Trump didnt have to tell his followers to break into the capitol on january 6th, and try to attack his Vice President mike pence, he just told them to march. He called the Vice President a coward, and then sat silently well as supporters chanted, that they wanted to hang mike pence. Trump tacitly encouraged violence against his own Vice President. And mike pence is far from an outlier here. Since the 2020 election, more than a dozen people have been charged with threatening Election Workers, because of trumps big lie. Individual Election Workers that trump singled out, like ruby freeman and shaye moss, faced threats of violence for just doing their jobs. Michigan secretary of state, jocelyn benson, had Armed Protesters show up at her home, because of trumps lies about the election. After trump demonize the fbi for searching maralago, a supporter of trumps tried to attack the fbi Cincinnati Field Office with a nail gun. Even the National Archives has been flooded with threats, because trump deemed the institution last year. And the list goes on. President trumps followers have showed repeatedly, trump can send even subtle messages, and they hear a call to violence loud and clear. Former District Attorney gwen keys joins us next, to talk about what the judge here can do about all of this. And what it is like to be a public figure on the Receiving End of this sort of vitriol. Make a splash with the ultimate pool party essential. 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When donald trump was the new summer family meal. Starting at 24. Only at El Pollo Loco. Criminally indicted the first time, he started calling that prosecutor another black prosecutors investigating him, racist. Days before Fulton County d. A. , fani willis, Indicted Trump and 18 others, trump accused her of having an affair with a gang member. Hours after she filed that r. I. C. O. Indictment, trump used the term rigor to complain about the charges. Those racially charged attacks do not go unnoticed by trump supporters. New york prosecutors who charged trump have received Death Threats. The a willis has shared the racist, sexist threats shes received. The judge overseeing trumps federal election case has faced racial slurs and Death Threats as well. And in the meantime, trump has reacted to all of this by saying, if you go after me, im coming after you. And yet, in a filing late last night, trumps defense team in his federal election interference case argued that the judge should not impose a gag order on trump, because President Trump has not intimidated anyone. Joining me now, gwen keys, former District Attorney for georgia. Great to see you in person. Thank you. So many reasons i want to talk to you about this. Just, from a legal perspective, does the argument the defense is putting forward here, donald trump is not intimidated anyone, does that hold water . I mean, in their mind, because there is no direct example, its a fantasy. Well, i think the judge here is gonna look at the context. Again, these are not statements that are in a vacuum. We have the history of january 6th. The judge sees whats been done. There again, even though that she has had threats against her, i think she is going to be able to look at the facts and read through all of the garbage, and come up with a decision that is going to be able to protect, not just the individuals in the court system, but the integrity of the court system. Lets remember, that is a critical part of our democracy. So, when you attacked prosecutors who suggested their decisions are made for things other than facts and the law, that really begins to undermine some of the basic principles of this country. I wonder what punitive measures can be put in place. He is someone who acts often in Open Defiance of the law, and institutions. You know, one of the most effective measures she has suggested is to move up the trial date. That seems, i, mean a march trial date, how much more can you move it up . And if you dont actually punish trump for the bad behavior, for the intimidating behavior, then does that not make a mockery of the institution as well . Correct. I think she may be following through on her threat to move things up. Again, this is a matter of shortening the window within which these kinds of statements can be made. When you do, that you ultimately protect people. And have the case move faster. Actually, we see whether thats what she does. The other things that would apply with any other defendant is revoking the bond. And having someone stay in custody. I realize thats a bit of a challenge when you have a former president , but thats how any other defendant would be handling it. Another aspect of this besides illegal, which is the social, im motional racial component to all of this. Trump makes on. Prosecutors detractors writ large. But then theres versus a focused attack without Laetitia James whos attacking social media with fani willis. Whether its judge chutkan. There is a specific brand of trump vitriol dedicated to these kinds of women. Women of color. Who are often involved in law not holding him accountable. What do you make of . That and what does that portend for women of color who are in law, who are watching this unfold. Well, its a sad state of affairs. Many of us, who have been prosecutors, or are prosecutors, sadly, realize that unfortunately is part of the job. So, now, we work even more diligently to protect ourselves. To protect our families. But we shouldnt have to do that. When we have put ourselves forward to be able to take it oath, and serve the public in a way that contains a critical pillar of our democracy. Its a sad state being treated this way. Again, i have it on good authority, that many of them are receiving protection from both the state in law enforcement, as well as the federal law enforcement. I think its really, telling the phase of this legal peril, hes resorting to not subtle racial suggestion of racism in fomenting racial tension, if not outright racial attacks on people of color. It is very in lightning to me that that is the recourse that donald trump has chosen in this moment. When you, i know that you worked with fani willis, and you know the peril that she faces, do you think this is gonna make, is there any cause for her to second guess the choices that she has made, as we go forward with all of this . Absolutely not. I have always said, fani willis, the a fani willis, has been called for a time such as this. Shes a very tough prosecutor. She knows the law. She follows it. And she applies facts that shes been given, through investigations, to that law. If she has the facts to go forward, shes gonna move forward. And nobody is going to be able to intimidate her from doing. So i will say, the flip side of this, her ability to weather this and all of these prosecutors ability to hold former president accountable is actually a reason to encourage other young people, whether they are women, women of color, or not, to get involved in this career, given the stakes and the magnitude of the challenge, if victorious, its deeply meaningful. Well, actually, thats one of the things that personally very satisfying for me. There was a time when i was the only African American woman d. A. In georgia. Now, there are eight. So, you can see how things can progress as many others step up and recognize their opportunity to serve. Well, we are so thrilled to have your wisdom and thoughts. I will say, generally, Positive Mental Attitude towards all of this. Gwen keys, great to see you, thank you for visiting us in new york city. Thank you. That is our show for this evening, now, it is time for the last word with lawrence odonnell. Lawrence, i know you have a very big guest coming up this evening. And i will be eagerly watching the television to hear everything you discuss with. Alex, i have two words for you. Cassidy hutchinson. Thats it. Thats all you gotta