Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240703

Friction, all are welcome at the maddow home whenever you need to be. Thank you my friend. Thank you. Ill kick off my shoes and watch your interview. Have a great show. Thank you so much. I am a little nervous tonight, too. This is a big night. Let me start right in. This is who is going to be our guest. On the evening of December 18th Mark Meadows my boss chief of stf returned from a meeting in the oval office and abruptly asked if i could tell his detail he wanted to go home as if there was an emergency there. His detail quickly prepared his limo and he left campus without further explanation. Shortly after marks departure i walked down to visit with molly andet a sense of the president s evening plans. Usually if mark went home before the president went to the residence i would stay at my desk in case the president needed anything from mark or me. But since mark had left early with such confidence, i thought perhaps the president was wrapping up the evening and i would get to go home early, too. When i walked into the outer oval i that the president was meeting with general mike flynn t former National Secu adviser who had pled guilty to lyi to the fbi about his involvement with russian officials, cutting a Cooperation Deal in special counsel Robert Muellers inquiry into interference in the 2016 election. Three weeks before todays Meeting On November 25th Trump Ddish united flynn a president ial pardon. Why is mike flynn here i asked molly . Im not sure molly said then added he is just talking to the president about some thing talking to the president about some things. Got t i went back to my office and settled in. Molly came to my offe soon after and asked if we had a wine opener. No i said mark doesnt drink so we do not keep alcoholic paraphernalia in his skris inter. I tried to joke but she did not crack alight smile. I sighd. I know the Vice President has one. Ill call his assistant. A few minutes later they barrelled down the hallway past my office door and rounded the corner toward the oval office. I was imagining various reasons mike flynn could have for bng there that had the lawyers in a panic but then i remembered it was derek lyons last day at the white house and figured i was over thinking it. Flynn had probably left and maybe there was a toast for derek in t oval office to celebrate his tenure at the white house. Pat sip loneys top aide Liz Horningandered in and wonder if i knew what was going on in the oval office. She had dinner plans and could not get i tch with him. I said im not sure but a bunch of people are in the oval. Cue we both turned toward the sodf raised voices from that direction. Though the oval office was a tensecond walk from my desk it was highly unusual to hearny words coming. We could n make out distinct words just people screaming at each other. Molly called me to come to the outer oval. Dan scavino was pri the last of a bottle of wine into a glass. The screaming was much louder th i anticipated. I looked into the oval office and saw a larr group. With the white house lawyers were mike flynn, sidney powell, and patrick burn the ceo of overstock. Com. How did all these people get inside the building . I could tell the meeting was growing more contentious so i decided to text the deputy Chief Of Staff. Flynn is still here and sidney powell. There is a brawl. He responded, oh, holy hell. Tony immediately called and asked if i knew what they were brawling over. He had been in the oval office earlier that day and heard the president talk about invoking the insion act or martial law. If thats what they were arguing over tony said i needed to get mark meadows back t the white house as soon as possible. Eventually i got ahold of mark who seemed reluctant to get on the line with the president. I urged him it sounded like a matter o nional security. A secret Service Agent standing outside the oval office came by. The agent said i dont want to hear allf that. Its really upsetting. I wouldnt recommend going down there. The west wing was officially unhinged. Hutchinson continues, things seemed toe breaking up as people filed out of the oval and walkedy my desk. Molly told me the president wanted to have dinner in the residence and was planning to reconvene the meeting in the yellow oval aft he firnd eating. Told her i would stay in case something happened. She wished me luck and then left for the night. Dan stopped by on his way home and said this is effed up. This cant be happening he said. This is effing insane. Pat cipollone looked at me and said this is nuts. Mark needs to come back. Does the chief really need a reason to come back . Here i is. Martial law. I mean for gods sake we called rudy to come help us do damage control. Rudy guiliani. You know its bad when we call ru for backup. The chief needs to come back. I continued to call mark. He continued ignoring my calls. So i called one of the secret Service Agents on his detail. Go pass your phone to mark now i ordered. Seriously the agent asked . What if he is in bed sleeping what do you expect me to do, shake him awake . I responded yes. This is a matter of National Security. You need to put me on the phone with him. After a few minutes i had mark on the line. Mark, the president is reconvening the meeting in the yellow oval. Rudy is on his way as back up for pat cipallone. Rudy. We are talking about the insurrection act. Seizing voting machines. I felt my voice begin to sound desperate. Please mark you need to come back here. He said all right. Im o my way. Hutchioncontinues. I walked with mark to the residence. He had asked me to come back at Midnight Toreak up the meeting if it had not already ended fwhien. I heard the president scream i dont care how you do it just get it done. Mark and i exchanged a pained look and he disappeared into the yellow oval. My hands were sweating as i walked back to my desk. I never heard the president sound so desperate before. I went to the residence around 11 5 p. M. But the meeting had begun to end. Eyesd my key to the Rose Garden Colonnade to unlock the door and let everyone out. Mark escorted Rudy Off The Pris to make sure americas mayor didnt wander back to the residence. One hour after the meeting broke up my watch buzzed with a trump alert. Peter navarro reases 36page report alleging Election Fraud more than sufficient to swing victory to trump. A great report by peter. Statistically impossible to have lost the 2020 election. Big protest in d. C. On january 6th. Be there. Will be wild. Wild. Cassidy hutchinson was the witness who told us all the worst things that we learned about the plot to overthrow the government after former President Trump lost reelection. From Cassidy Hutchinson we learned that the president was told by his Deputy White House Chief Of Staff about the number of weapons and the types of weapons people had brought to the rally site in washington, d. C. On january 6th, 2021. From Cassidy Hutchinson we learned that the president having been informed about all of those weapons then ordered that the Metal Detectors be taken down so the armed crowd could be allowed in with their weapons. He then as planned apparently told that crowd to march on congress. From Cassidy Hutchinson we learned that he not only told the crowd at the rally out loud that he would go to congress with them he also tried to do it. So as the president had gotten into the vehicle with bobby he thought that they were going up to the capitol and when bobby had relayed to him were not. We dont have the assets to do it. Its not secure. Were going back to the west wing. The president had very strong, very angry response to that. Tony described him as being irate. The president said something to the effect of, im the fing president take me to the capitol now to which bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the west wing. The president reached up toward the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. Mr. Engel grabbed his arm and said, sir, you need to take your arm off the steering wheel. Were going back to the west wing. Were not going to the capitol. Mr. Trump then used his free hand to lunge toward bobby engel and when when he recounted the story to me he motioned toward his clavicles. We learned from Cassidy Hutchinson in that remarkable day of live testimony that the former president not only tried physically to steer the president ial limousine to congress and in her telling physically lunged at the secret Service Agent telling him that the limo would not be going there. We learned from her as well that the president acknowledged repeatedly that he had in fact lost the election but just didnt want to admit it. We learned from her that when trump was told the rioters had in fact breached the Capitol Building and were surging in toward members of congress trapped inside he refused repeated requests to ask the rioters to stand down. We learned from Cassidy Hutchinson that when trump heard that the rioters were calling for the lynching of his Vice President who was on the premises, mike pence, we learned from her that he said pence deserved that fate. That the rioters werent doing anything wrong. When she gave that testimony she was 25 years old. And very much alone in the world. And very much without resources. And i mean that literally. The extent that she was flat broke. She had a couple hundred dollars in her checking account. She had not paid her rent for months. Her wifi had been cut off at her apartment. This was a very young woman who had had, yes, a very high end job at the white house. She was effectively the Chief Of Staff, top staffer to the white house Chief Of Staff, but she was a young woman who had only ever had government employment. When the Trump Administration ended as it did she was very much alone and without resources. A working class kid, first in her family to go to college. All of the connections and pull in life she developed on her own as much as a person can do by the age of what, 24 . When she was subpoenaed to testify, she was very much alone. She was unable to afford a lawyer on her own. She reluctantly therefore got one from trump world. She says that lawyer effectively encouraged her to not tell what she knew. That arrangement lasted for a few of her first depositions until she could no longer live with herself. She finally connected with new counsel who would help her for free and without what she felt was potentially conflicted loyalty and then she told all. She says in her new book in the prologue, quote, before retaining my new lawyers, at times i had told less than the whole truth to a cgressional committee charged with investigating a matter of the highest national importance, a matter that posed a threat to americas future greatness. I had withheld information about events that i had witnessed or that had been recounted to me by witnesses. Those events precipitated the shocking assault on the United States congress an institution i cherish and threatened the continued success of american democracy. My cscnce was bothering me. And i came to the decision in parliamently language to clarify and extend my testimony. That is how she ended up telling the whole truth. She is further clarifying and extending her testimony in this new book that is out tomorrow which is called enough and contains a lot of new information. I started off taking notes when i started reading the book thinking i would want to keep the main new points of information on a sheet or a paper so i could stay focused on what i wanted to talk to her about. I ended up taking 20 tiny scribbled handwritten pages of notes all about what was new here to me. The new information in this book includes information about bizarre, apparent mishandling of Classified Information including some at least previously Classified Information, potentially still Classified Information being carried around in a whole foods bag and dropped off with some reporters. There is a strange new story about what the white house Chief Of Staff did in the last 15 minutes that the Trump Administration existed on Inauguration Day. Something that required him to move with lights and sirens through downtown d. C. To get there before Noon Whereupon joe biden would become president. There is new information that as early as may, 2020, the white house, trump white house, may, 2020, was already trying out the phrase stop the steal in messaging about the 2020 election, six months before the election even happened. There is new confirmation from Cassidy Hutchinson that trump was mortally ill from covid. That he was so ill his life was in danger when he was hospitalized with the virus. There is confirmation from Cassidy Hutchinson it was the former president himself who ordered the firing of the u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york jeff burrman telling me tonight before hearing that from us when we called him for comment he had been aware his firing had been ordered by the president himself. There are six different allegations about various white house men and capitol hill republican men groping or creeping on Cassidy Hutchinson in this book although i should mention that two of the six are both matt gaetz so six alleged incidents but only five different men. Well have more on that later. There is a lot to talk about here and i am cognizant were doing a big interview on this tonight. There is a lot to talk about in general. In the news it looks like the Writers Strike is finally over in hollywood. President biden is going to walk the picket line with the United Auto Workers tomorrow, something no president ever has done before. Senator menendez now has three Senate Democrats calling for his resignation after his indictment on corruption charges last week. Now former House Speaker nancy pelosi is calling for his resignation as well. In the Senate Democrat John Fetterman was the first to call for menendez resignation. Senator peter walsh is calling on him to resign. Senator menendez says he wont resign but this is now a Boulder Running Down Hill at him. It is hard to see how Senator Menendez stays. Still looking at a Government Shutdown by the end of the week. There are even odds a shutdown might also bring the end of the speakership of House Republican leader Kevin Mccarthy. Someone with whom Cassidy Hutchinson was very, very close. Weve got the second republican president ial debate two nights from now with former President Donald Trump still not planning on showing up despite his lead in the polls. Instead he is making headlines in the last few days for saying this weekend that the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff should be executed for treason. Then today he said this news network you are watching now should be investigated for treason and it will be if he is elected president again. Then this afternoon he tried to buy a gun. People under felony indictment arent legally allowed to buy a gun but that was a real moment today. For Cassidy Hutchinson it has been 15 months since her testimony that turned the world on its ear. She has spent those 15 months out of sight in part for her own safety. But also to write this book and also to do three separate interviews with u. S. Justice department prosecutors and one with the grand jury in Fulton County. Former president she served and who she says she at one point adored and to whom she was quite loyal for a very long time, he has now been indicted in four different jurisdictions on dozens of felony counts. Cassidy hutchinson says she found the bravery to stop effectively lying by omission, to start telling what she actually knew when she first read the story of this man, a man who had basically the same job as hers under a very different president , Alexander Butterfield had also been effectively Chief Of Staff to the white house Chief Of Staff under president nixon. Sort of a low profile, low Name Recognition Position but one with access to very high level, very sensitive goingson. Like Cassidy Hutchinson mr. Butterfield was a loyal republican, loyal to the president , didnt ever want to be anything other than good at his job and a help to the administration he served but like Cassidy Hutchinson Alexander Butterfield also felt he needed to be honest about what he had seen and what he knew. Alexander butterfield is how the nation learned there was a Taping System in the Nixon White House during watergate. Cassidy hutchinson seen here meeting with mr. Butterfield after her testimony. She is how the nation learned all the worst things we now know about as she puts it on page 321, quote, an unhinged Chief Executive Willing Toveurn the will of the people and plunge the country into chaos and violence on the advice of crazy people. For what . To avoid the embarrassment of conceding an election he knew he had lost. She said, quote, that is who he is. And her testimony we also know that is who she is. A paragon of bravery. She has a new book out called enough coming out tomorrow. She is here tonight for the interview live. Stay with us. St. Joseph, michigan. Im a retired school librarian. Im also a Library Board trustee, a mother of two, and a grandmother of two. Basically, i thought that my memory wasnt as good as it had been. I needed all the help i could get. I saw the commercials for prevagen. I started taking it. And it helped i noticed my memory was better. There was definite improvement. Ive been taking prevagen for a little over five years. Prevagen. 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Now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh . Bye, uncle limu. Stay off the freeways only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Here we go. Back at my desk i hear the news break. The first rioters have breached the capitol. Theyre inside. Im registering the development as Pat Cipollone and Pat Philbin Barrel past me and into marks office. The rioters are in the capitol. We need to go down and see the president now. Mark is a statue on hisch he doesnt want to do anything, pat. Pat calmly gives mark direction. Mark, something needs to be people are going to die and the blood is going to be on your hands. This is getting out of hand. Im gown there. My eyes are locked on mark. Get up. Go with pat. Mark swly stands, leaning against the arm the couch, and walks silently to my desk. He is clutching his glasses in his fist. His knuckles are white. Let me know if jim jordan calls. Jim jordan calls mines later. I feel a pang of hope. One s. C. Ill go get him. I go to the dining room. Is markn there i ask the valet . The valet nods. I look through the peephole and see the back of his suit. I opened the door toet his attention. The group is having a heated conversation about the rioters. Mark sees me. I point at T Phone Screen where jims caller i. D. Is visible. He comes over to take the phone propping the door open with his bo as he talks to jim. I take a steps back as mark takes my place the doorway and i strain to listen to both conversations. The tv in the oval dining room is blaring. The president is yelling. What is he saying . I cant make it out. Iear him say, hang. Repeatedly. Hang. Hang. Whats that about . Mark hands his phone back to me. The cuee to return to my desk. Back in my office my phone notifies me of a tmp tweet, mike pence didnt have t courage to do what should have been done to protect our country and our constituti, giving states a chance to certify a corrected set of facts not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. U. S. A. Demands the truth. Hutc continues, im struggling to process whats happening as mark, Pat Cipollone, pat philbin, Eric Hershman stumble back to the office. I overhear their conversation and suddenly everything makes sense. They are calling for the Vice President to be hanged. The president is okay with it. He doesnt want to do anything. He doesnt think theyre doing anything wrong. He thinks mike is a traitor. Thiss crazy. We need to be doi something more. My phone is pging nonstop with email texts, signal messages, and unanswered calls. Marks phones are, too. I am devoi emotion as i consider what i should do and then letting what i just heard and hurt. Am gripped with anger i snatch my coat. I run out of the office to go to the eisenhower building. I need to check in with marks secret serce detail. We need to have a plan i case the worst happens. In case this i the beginning of a coup. That is from Cassidy Hutchinsons new book which is called enough which is out tomorrow. Ms. Hutchinson, nice to meet you. Thank you for being here. Nice to meet you. Thank you for having me, rachel. This is the first live interview youve done in the media. It is the second live interview you have done in life. True. How are you doing . Doing well. Its a pleasure to be here with you and its an honor to have this as my first live interview. Second live interview i guess. Second live interview the first one much more consequential. Dont worry. I mean, its been 15 months since that testimony. Your life has changed dramatically since then. I said based on what i read in your book, i didnt ask you about this ahead of time. I said in my introductory remarks a lot of the reason people havent heard from you or seen you out in the world in the last 15 months is at least in part because of concerns about your security. Is that fair . Is that still a real concern for you . That is a fair assessment, yes. How are you taking care of yourself in that regard . You dont have to tell me anything i shouldnt know. No youre fine. Open book. Its been difficult in a lot of ways. Its also open this year has helped me open my eyes to the dangers that trump actually poses on people in these situations and im not the only one. And i wish i could say id be the last person but unfortunately i wont and thats what he does to people that he thinks speak out against him or that detract from him. It is one of the more Dangerous Things about donald trump, too, as weve seen time and time again and it shouldnt have to be like this. You write about in the book repeatedly about your regret as, for having not supported him but specifically for having facilitated some of the political attacks he launched as president on people that were designed the way he designs them, to hurt people and in some cases expose them to danger. Did that give you any insight into why he needs politics to work that way for him and any insight into how to combat it . It gave me an insight into his psyche while i was writing the book and helping understand my circumstances with it and what i dealt with after i testified. But with that said, he it also opened my eyes to what he wants from people. He wants to know that hes getting a reaction. He thrives when he has an audience. It could be a negative audience. It could be an audience that he likes. It could be his base. What he needs is to hear people reacting to him. And thats when he knows in his mind that he has been successful to something. Is that why youve never responded to his attacks on you . I never responded to his attacks on me because i dont need to give them oxygen. He is going to say what he is going to say and he said much worse things about much better people than i am. The kind of pressure that you describe experiencing to protect mr. Trump, some of it was selfdirected, right . You say at one point in the book, and it struck me you said that you adored him at one point. That you were very you are and very much still are a republican. That you believed in what he was trying to do for the country. You wanted to be a good staffer. You wanted to serve the white house. You wanted to do right by your colleagues. And that sort of easily leads toward the next post president ial project for him which is protecting him from all the investigations around january 6th and everything else. But that pressure not only came from you. It also came from his world. You didnt have Financial Resources to hire your own lawyer. You didnt have access to a lawyer at the outset who would represent you for free. You ended up with a trump world lawyer who you describe as having not told you to lie but encouraged you to not tell everything that you knew. That pressure is very it is not just a Cassidy Hutchinson biographical detail but a live issue for a lot of people in different jurisdictions deciding how to respond to a subpoena, what they may testify to in court, what theyre going o it do about legal representation. And some of them may be watching right now. What would you say to them about how to balance the equities in that kind of calculation . In my opinion, you know, i dont know if there really is a way to balance the equities. If you have a selfinterest of being completely forthcoming and truthful in what you are witnessing that could potentially hurt or damage mr. Trump and not even speaking to issues of Legal Counsel just as a person knowing what i experienced. Like you said, some of it was selfinflicted for me. I knew what i wanted to do. I knew how i felt about these circumstances surrounding january 6th. But i also was scared to be frank. I was scared at times to make that break. I had seen what happened to some of my former colleagues who had made that break and how they became the subjects of the vitriol and vile rhetoric that comes out of mr. Trump and his associates when you break with him. If i were to say anything to the people, though, that may be finding themselves in this similar situation to the situation i found myself in or just that they want to make that break, its possible. We cant what i think is in my opinion again what i think is damaging in ways is isolating the people that come out and then questioning why they did. It is hard to come out. It was hard to find my way out because of what we said. I had financial limitations and i did have other counsel but it was also hard coming out on the outside because i didnt know if id be welcomed by people. So i think that if we can create and foster an environment where people feel that theyre welcomed and that there is a life on the other side which is one of the more eye opening parts of this experience for me, too, is that there are good people in this world that want to help and that are there and that have similar interests that we do. We all want the republic to survive. We all should want the republic to survive. In the way he is currently going i am not confident he will have it survive and i would just encourage them to think about that. When you say we speak at a moment when mr. Trump is dozens of points ahead of his nearest opponent in the republican president ial primary. The tone in the Political Press about what is happening in the republican president ial primary is that even people who support his competitors are effectively conceding that he is going to be the nominee. Republicans seem poised to choose him again even after what happened the last time and, specifically, what you were able to tell the country about what it was like inside the white house. I was struck in the book not just about what you said about january 6th but some of the other ways that you described what was bad about him as a president. On covid you said i doubt any politician could have led the country through the deadliest pandemic in a hundred years without Making Errors of judgment and execution but of all the people in the world, President Trump was uniquely unsuited to the challenge. He lacked empathy and was stubborn and impatient. You said he had a restless, impulsive personality. You described his Attention Span not being up to an average meeting. I noticed that his eyes often wandered the room when the meetings outlasted his Attention Span. Ultimately you described what happened On January 6th is from him at a minimum a shocking dereliction of duty. I mean, all of the things you describe from having seen him up close are Public Record now. Right. None of these things are secrets. Why do you think your fellow republicans want him more than they want anybody else as their next candidate for the white house . I cant speak to the psyche of, i wont say my fellow republicans because i do not think we are part of the same Republican Party. I still consider myself a republican. I consider myself a republican in the sense of senator mitt romney and the reagan Republican Party. I believe that the Republican Party needs a strong, conservative party. I do not believe that mr. Trump is a strong republican. But in this next election cycle, its in my opinion the make or break moment for the Republican Party. Now is the time if these politicians, these men and some women that are currently in Congress Want to make the break and want to take the stand they have to do it now. We cant wait any longer for them to do it. I dont know why they are so willing to support him. I think its extremely disappointing and it is not a hard issue to take. Were talking about a man who at the very essence of his being almost destroyed democracy in one day and he wants to do it again. He wants to run for president to do it again. He has been indicted four times since janis 6. I would not have a clear conscience and be able to sleep at night if i were a republican in congress that supported donald trump. And, you know, i think that if theyre not willing to split with that, then were in serious danger for the party. Im going to talk with you about those indictments. I know youve spoken with federal prosecutors and the Fulton County grand jury. I want to ask you about some of the news youve broken in the book. 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For a lot less. Plans start at 15 a month nocontract. Tracfone. Back with us once again is Cassidy Hutchinson. Her new book comes out tomorrow. Thank you for being here. You write in detail about your interactions with the january 6th committee. You did six interviews with them plus the live testimony. You also say you met three times with the Justice Department personnel and prosecutors and once with the Fulton County grand jury. Is that correct . Thats correct. Do you expect to be called to testify in any of the trump trials . I have fully complied with all Government Investigations and all entities thus far and i will continue to do so. You cant talk about if you are going to testify. If or when i am asked to testify i will comply as fully as i have in the past. Did prosecutors involved in any of those conversations or any of the live cases ask you to leave certain topics out of the book . No. No. Everything that is in the book is also consistent with my transcripts that are on the record with the government or with the january 6th committee. Okay. Well everything pertaining to the Election Fraud. And mr. Trumps attempts to overthrow the government to stay in power. All in the Public Record. One of the things that you describe in some detail in the book that i dont just quite know what to make of is, involves your direct boss mark meadows. Ive been describing you with the short hand and you use this in the book sort of Chief Of Staff to Chief Of Staff essentially the top staffer to mr. Meadows. You are with him a lot of the time. You definitely know what is going on in his life. You are close to him in the work sense every day that hes in the office. And yet, there is some mystery i dont totally understand as to what he was burning in his fire place and to what he was doing with either classified or previously classified documents related to the russia investigation. Are you describing what appeared to you to be either mishandling of Classified Information or mishandling of president ial records, destruction of president ial records which is of course not allowed . The final days obviously was chaotic in a number of ways. I was under the impression and i know there were several of my colleagues that were under the impression that how classified documents were being handled was not within proper protocol. Now, with saying that, i think it speaks also just to how reckless and careless much of the administration was, not taking classified document protocol seriously a lot of the time. Weve seen that with mr. Trump as well but, you know, specific to my experience with mr. Meadows in the final days of the administration, i talk about it a lot in the book to shed light on how chaotic things were, but i cant really speak to what he was doing. I would leave that as a question to him. It does sound like there were confrontations in the white house including those that involved you related to perceived mishandling of sensitive information. Thats correct i dropped the bag on Pat Cipollones floor. Here are your classified documents back from the reporters, mark. I didnt hide my contempt. My words rife with sarcasm. Mike and mr. Cipollone period into the bag. I saw mark swallow hard. Pat shot me a piercing look. Overwhelmed, pat agonized seriously, seriously we do not have time for this. I was already walking out of his office. You then describe mr. Meadows at 11 45 a. M. On Inauguration Day asking the Secret Service how quickly they can get to the Justice Department because he wants to try to declassify something literally in the last 15 minutes when donald trump is president. Joe bidens about to get sworn in, so yes. What was that about . What was he trying to do . That specific binder was pertinent to Crossfire Hurricane which for the record at the time i had no idea what Crossfire Hurricane was. But i, looking at the Bigger Picture here bringing it back to next years election, these people very well could be in power again and do we want people who have already shown that theyre willing and want to overthrow an election, dual elected president , which is the pinnacle our democracy . Do we want to put people like that back in power . Do we want to put people back in power that have mishandled and showed to mishandle the most sensitive National Security secrets our nation has . You know, that is the question we need to ask ourselves. We got a statement from a spokesperson for mr. Meadows tonight, not sort of just vaguely casting as perfections of you most of the statement but then saying most of her claims in this book about mr. Meadows or otherwise are filled with half truths, falsehoods, and purposely omitting context to sell books. Saying you are making things up out of whole cloth in order to make money. You worked so closely with him for a long time but you also describe in the book you never really trusted him. There are several instances you describe in which he flat out lied to you even on close working matters where you should have been on the same side. I should ask for a response for that statement and ask you what you think happened between you and mark meadows. I dont think there was anything necessarily negative to happen between me and mark meadows. I was very outspoken after january 6th about how i felt about it. Mark and i also knew we were two different people. And thats okay. We regularly talked about it. We would regularly joke about it that i was more moderate than he was but we did in large part work well together. More ideologically moderate. Yes. More so than he was. But putting that aside, in an environment like that, that doesnt matter as much. In terms of his statement i wouldnt encourage him to go testify under oath if he thinks that what is in the book and what i have testified to under oath which is consistent with what is in the book, he can go testify under oath if he has strong feelings about that. Were you disappointed that the Justice Department elected not to prosecute him for Contempt Of Congress when he ignored the congressional subpoena that you responded to from the january 6th investigation . Ill leave it to mr. Meadows and his team to respond to that. What i will say is i hope that mark is now doing the right thing. What i define as the right thing, which is coming forth and honoring your oath that you swore to protect your country not your president. Were going to take a quick break and come back. I have something to ask you about that creeps me out. Im sorry in advance. Im used to it. Its okay. All right. The creepy questions when we come back. Yeah. What a tease huh . Well be right back with Cassidy Hutchinson right after this. Come with the ucard one simple member card that opens doors for what matters. How bout using it at the pharmacy . Yes your ucard is all you need. impressed huh thats easy the allinone ucard, only from unitedhealthcare. vo sure you can get data everywhere but do you have to use it all the time . The allinone ucard, thats not really you. With tracfone, you get great coverage all on nationwide 5g. For a lot less. Plans start at 15 a month nocontract. Tracfone. Type 2 diabetes . Discover the ozempic® trizone. I got the power of 3. I lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. In studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. Im under 7. Ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. Im lowering my risk. Adults lost up to 14 pounds. I lost some weight. Ozempic® isnt for people with type 1 diabetes. Dont share needles or pens, or reuse needles. Dont take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple Endocrine Neoplasia Syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. Stop ozempic® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. Serious side effects may include pancreatitis. Gallbladder problems may occur. Tell your provider about Vision Problems or changes. Taking ozempic® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase low blood sugar risk. Side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. Living with Type 2 Diabetes . Ask about the power of 3 with ozempic®. Joining us once again is Cassidy Hutchinson. Her new book is called enough and comes out tomorrow. One of the claims in your book that received some attention ahead of publication is an allegation you make that Rudy Guiliani effectively groped you at the trump rally On January 6th. You say that he reached his hand under your blazer and then under your skirt. Mr. Guilianis spokesperson has called this A Disgustin Lie against mayor guiliani. He gave us that statement again himself tonight. But i was struck by the fact that he was not the only one. Page 52 of the book you say john boehner of all people looked down at my Cranberry Vodka and whispered dark liquor or red wine from now on. Then he tugged on the ends of my hair saying, and lose the pony tail. You describe one man who worked in the white house mike mckenna has having a tendency to publicly single out women with crude and demeaning comments. You described the president and this is not groping. This is not physical but you describe him as telling you to add blonde highlights to your hair which you then went home and did i did do that. Then came back to the white house the next day. That doesnt happen in normal workplaces just telling you now. Sorry. There is a whole world out there and guys get fired for doing stuff like that. Unbelievable. It shouldnt be unbelievable. Shouldnt be unbelievable. There is also a couple of instances involving congressman matt gaetz. I will admit most of the context here but the lines that have kept me up and uncomfortable. He chuckled and brushed his thumb across my chin, has anyone ever told you you are a National Treasure . You describe a night at camp david when he was leaning against the door frame while somebody answered the door to another cabin. Matt straightened his posture when Kevin Mccarthy asked him what he wanted. He explained he had seen my golf cart parked outside and thought this was my cabin. Embarrassed i got up and asked mr. Gaetz what he needed. He explained that he was lost and asked me to escort him to his cabin. I told him to proceed around the circle drive. All the cabins are clearly marked. It is impossible to get lost. He asked me One More Time to leave with him. Kevin mccarthy then said, quote, get a life, matt. And shut the door. Now, mr. Gaetz, we asked him for comment on these allegations tonight. He told us i dont remember either of these events. And based on cassidys prior false statements i doubt they occurr. I did date cassidy for a few weeks when we were both single years ago. We parted am ibly and remained friends thereafter even during President Trumps post presidency and then he goes on to make our unrelated claims. I am sorry to ask you if you want to respond to that but im going to ask you. Id love to respond to that right now. Thank you for giving me the option. I will give matt credit in part of his statement that we did have an amicable Working Relationship and we were good friends at points. Matt gaetz in my opinion is somebody that i personally do not hold in high regard in terms of trust and i do not think that matt gaetz has the best track record for relationships and condoning his relationships how he thinks that they might be defined. I will say on behalf of myself i never dated matt gaetz. I have much Higher Standards in men. And matt frankly is a very unserious politician. We see that today with the ruckus he is causing on capitol hill with the spending negotiations. And im not, i dont really have much else to say to somebody that is more concerned about a sound bite than actually passing legislation. Mr. Guilianis remark in response to your allegation about him which was graphic and gross, was that this was a disgusting lie against him. Do you stand by that statement despite his pushback i stand by my statement and what i described in the book and i agree it was gross. Cassidy hutchinson, you have been through a lot particularly as a very young woman who had to do a lot of this on her own. The record that you have given us is much, much, much more complete than anybody else could have given us and it took a lot of bravery to get there. This has been a hard time in your life. But youve done a service to your country and i hope that good things happen for you. Thank you, rachel. Thank you. Congratulations. Thank you. Former white house aide Cassidy Hutchinson has a new book called enough and it is out tomorrow, full of news. You should read it. Well be right back. D like to b. Like here. And here. Not so much here. If you have chronic kidney disease, farxiga can help you keep living life. Farxiga and farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure, which can lead to dialysis. 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