Transcripts For MSNBCW When 20240703

The high power, high Profile Addition to the president s legal team, Rudy Giuliani. Anyone can become an influencer. Throw him out. Just sort of a mini cult leader in their own right. The corruption in the ukraine. Theres an effort by rudy to get information about evidence that hunter biden was on the take, and that joe biden was getting money from ukraine. He sounded like a mobster. When people say there is no mafia, i mean, i know from my history that there is such a thing, and i know what it does and what it can do. Heshe is a he is a warrior. I saw god out on the block today he was darker than the preachers say with a teardrop tattooed on his face and dirt on his fingers i heard angels when he laughed the way that people do when they have known true pain for his sins i dont know whos to blame what choice was he given . In this world that were livin when i see you i see love i see america when i see you i see love i see america [car honks] ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, let me introduce you to the greatest mayor in the history of the greatest city, and my father, Rudy Giuliani. [cheers and applause] thank you. Well, i am very encouraged by the enthusiasm in this room. You know, i spent my whole life as a prosecutor. I can pick up crime. If you are committing a crime right back there, i could probably figure it out. [laughter] transcripts of closed door testimonies from various state Department Officials put Rudy Giuliani at the center of the Impeachment Inquiry. He is the president s personal lawyer. But now, his own actions in ukraine, ones that are being called shadow Foreign Policy, have put him and his associates under the microscope. The goal of this was to defraud the American Public. There was a reason that the former president was doing this, and the reason was in order to be able to tell the American Public that joe biden and his son were under criminal investigation. Theyre not disclosing that theres nothing to it. This quote, unquote Objective Investigation was bought and paid for. I would think if it was necessary. We can survive without a trip to dc. We can survive without, you know, any, like, energy deals with the us, or pretty much anything, with one huge exception, our Military Assistance, because were a country fighting a war with what used to be a superpower. And we rely on that Military Assistance to survive. When zelensky took office, his top Foreign Policy priority, certainly, was to show his people that he will maintain the relationship with the United States. [speaking russian] so you have to be seen with the american president. You have to pay a visit. You have to do a phone call. You have to go to the oval office and have a meeting. Thats how you demonstrate to your people that you are maintaining the alliances that are most important to ukraine. President trump understood that perfectly well, and he withheld it as political leverage. First, he delays a call with zelensky until zelensky will pressure his prosecutors to start the investigation. When zelensky wont do that, finally trump gets on the phone with him. And hes held up aid to ukraine. [tense music] which is really alarming when russia was on its doorstep. Then trump has the phone call with president zelensky and asks zelensky to open up the investigation, look into joe biden. And in the call, which donald trump forever refers to as the perfect call, he tells him, you know, i need a favor from you, though. I need you to do something for me. Ill read the first sentence, but the whole transcript is its useful to read it all in context. But the first sentence was where the thenpresident says, i would like you to do us a favor though, because our country has been through a lot, and ukraine knows a lot about it. And then he goes on to say, id like you to look into something and open an investigation. Whats stunning about this moment is that the people in the National Security council who have to listen in on this call, many of them, like, cut their eyebrows at each other, Cannot Believe what the president has just said. He has asked a foreign leader to investigate an american citizen or two or three. Its hard to imagine something more despicable. This is an nbc news special report. Heres savannah guthrie. Morning, everybody. Its 10 a. M. On the east coast, 7 a. M. Out west. We have Breaking News this morning. Its tied to the now impeachment investigation into President Trump. A lot of this renewed attention is focused on the president s phone call with the leader of ukraine and whether there was an inappropriate ask during that call. We are now starting to see the actual testimony from the depositions in the Impeachment Inquiry so far, the transcripts, and they are as damning as expected for the president and his allies. Theres no law that says you cant take in information from a foreigner. This was an innocent man who was being framed by a group of scoundrels. Where do we stand with this . And the role of Rudy Giuliani, in particular, the president s personal lawyer . What i did is perfectly lawful, perfectly legal. He had every right to do it as the president of United States. I actually found facts that are true. Its gonna finally all come out, and youre gonna find out that iti imagine, it was the greatest, biggest scandal in the history of this country. Rudy giuliani is a very famous man. You know, he has a long history in this country. Even today, after everything thats happened in his career, the crash and the burn, his words still carry a lot of weight. The bidens repeatedly have him be point man and the family walks out with millions of dollars, and the us gets screwed. Joe biden in a massive bribery scheme. Rudy and when you tell me that, you know, he should testify because hes gonna tell the truth, and he shouldnt worry, well, thats so silly because its somebodys version of the truth, not the truth. He didnt have a conversation trust is truth. I dont need to go, like no, it isnt truth. Truth isnt truth. The president of the United States says, i didnt truth is a truth. Mr. Mayor, do you realize what ii the idea behind this now famous line, truth isnt the truth is that truth is perception. If you can convince people that something is true, if you can make a certain idea part of the consensus belief among society, thats all you need for it to be called the truth. It doesnt have to match observable facts in nature. Truth is whatever people believe it to be. [explosions booming] [distant gunfire] [overlapping chatter] [tense music] this particularly alarming now. Now that weve seen Russian Armored tanks careen toward kyiv and the country of ukraine engaged in a hot war for its very existence. The idea that the an american president was holding up Military Assistance to this democracy that was literally fighting for survival, to serve his own personal political interests in United States. Where is hunter . Oh, hes in a country, i see. His father just left the country. Hes gonna scam them for a couple of bucks. This is an alarming moment in the abuse of power, and abuse of the presidency. To me as a prosecutor, the matter of politics, thats intolerable. If you sell out my country for money, youre a traitor. [applause] its criminal. Its, like, literally, its a hostage situation. Its, like, literally, like, taking a gun, putting it at somebodys head, and just saying, like, do whatever i tell you to do or else. You have thousands, if not millions, of lives at stake here. Its really hard to calculate what giulianis actions have meant for ukraine. President zelenskys advisers and friends expressed to me directly was that, in terms of how he sees giulianis role, the word he used was evil. Hes used the posttruth infrastructure of our reality very effectively. But i think this shift is bigger than him. Will you commit to making sure that there is a peaceful transferal of power after the election . Oh, were gonna have to see what happens. Im jayson. Im living with hiv and im on cabenuva. It helps keep me undetectable. For adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, longacting Hiv Treatment you can get every other month. Cabenuva is two injections, given by my healthcare provider, every other month. 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I think americas mayor is the same guy that he was when he took down the mob. What im describing to you is a massive fraud. When he changed new york from the Rotting Apple to the safest city in the world. We cannot allow these crooks, cause thats what they are, to steal an election from the american people. When he was the hero that america needed after our darkest day. This is enough to overturn any election. Its disgraceful what happened. America might not have been ready for that truth, but thats why im so proud that he stood up. I think the truth of what happened in the 2020 election. The 2020 election hoax. Were gonna win this election. Weve actually won it. This election was rigged. Clearly illegal. Clearly voter fraud. Election night at the white house is a slightly tense affair. There are some key swing states that start to come in, and theyre not for trump. Rudy, as soon as he hears the first one, calls out, tell them we won. Just tell them we won. Insist that we won. Thats the strategy. People are kind of quizzical, like, what . Even mark meadows, the president s chief of staff, and most ardent supporters are, like, wait a minute. Rudys insistent. Just go on tv, say we won. And in the middle of the night, donald trump basically follows the Rudy Giuliani playbook by telling all of his followers who stayed up this late, we won. This is a fraud on the American Public. This is an embarrassment to our country. We were getting ready to win this election frankly, we did win this election. Most people go up to a certain point. Rudys the guy who takes five steps further. Not a single republican has been able to look at any one of these mail ballots. They could be from mars as far as were concerned. A lot of people said there might be some problem with the elections. Rudys the one who says, this is fraudulent and we can overturn this, and ive got the legal goods. And he didnt have anything of the sort. I cant give you all these affidavits, because if i do, these people will be harassed. Theyll be threatened. So Rudy Giuliani puts together this sort of bizarre team. We got attacked by china, and they flipped this election. Theres the my pillow guy. President trump is right that there was widespread fraud in this election. Jenna ellis. He could take military capabilities, and he could place them in those states and basically rerun an election. Michael flynn, the disgraced former general, you know, and a group of lawyers who probably couldnt get hired by a cgrade law firm. Theyre technically lawyers, but theyre willing to say, like, any damn thing. Theyre willing to say that the deceased president of venezuela somehow orchestrated a way to steal ballots and fly them to germany . The dominion voting systems, the Smartmatic Technology software, were created in venezuela at the direction of hugo chavez. Its loony, but so is qanon, and people believe that. We let this happen, were gonna become venezuela. At one point, Rudy Giuliani decides they were gonna do a Press Conference at the four seasons, but their operation is so incompetent, they wind up at, like, i think it might be, like, a massage parlor. Yes, the four seasons. But it was, like, the four seasons laundromat. Four seasons total landscaping. They end up at four seasons total landscaping. Apologies to four seasons. You are not a massage parlor. Youre a landscaping company. There are dead people voting. Will smiths father has voted here twice since he died. Just everythings going wrong. I mean, Rudy Giuliani at one point has, like, hair dye running down his face. He looks absurd. But trump responds to that. And trump, frankly, is a practitioner of the same kind of politics. And so they have constructed what is known as the big lie capital b, capital l, and till death do them part. Were headed to a very bad place. All right. The House Oversight committee will come to order. This isthis is a swindle. Its a con job. Its a theft of an election. So they start this whole process of Filing Lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit trying to overturn the election. Then a weird thing happens. Donald trump starts losing these cases, even in courtrooms where hed appointed the judges. So he put all these federal judges, Something Like 200 judges, on the federal bench. Hes like, im good. Theyre gonna do what i say because they owe me, i gave them their jobs. Hes still thinking like a mobster. They dont owe him, and they dont support him, and these cases get thrown out one after the other. It gets to, like, 60 something cases, and theyre just losing. It was embarrassing because of how quickly they were dismissed as frivolous and without any merit or facts. In the pennsylvania case, the judge basically said, you have no evidence of fraud. What would i base my decision on . Merry christmas. All [chanting] stop the steal stop the steal whats true to me may not be true to you, even though theres only one fact. I mean, the fact is, donald trump lost the president ial election by 7 million votes. Stop the steal and yet 40 some odd percent of the public, 70 some odd percent of republicans, dont believe thats true. I know the election was stolen. Thats why i am here. This insurrection against donald trump, against they stole the election. How do you communicate with people who, the divide is so large over facts . I dont know how you bridge that gap. And thats a dangerous gap. And Rudy Giuliani is on the nonfactual side of that gap. You know, ive seen him asked repeatedly, well, what is your best evidence that the election was stolen . And he just begins babbling. Its like turning on a computer that goes out of control. And he starts talking about this country and that country and down there and, you havent seen the movie. You havent seen 2000 mules or whatever. And i said, okay, lets say thats the greatest movie in the world. Who as a society do we trust . 60 state and federal judges, including eight federal judges that trump nominated to the bench, or a movie . And he said, the movie. In this postfact world, there are two kinds. There are the people who truly and sincerely believe whatever exciting falsehoods that they believe. And then there are ones who decide to pretend to believe, who are lying. And it was the big lie where he just encouraged the millions of people already believing the big lie, that heres a respectable former American Hero saying its true in all of its fantastical aspects. We dont want to find out three weeks from now even more proof that this election was stolen. Do we . All no i would say thats the single greatest crime. You look in the mirror every night, and you say to yourself, im doing the right thing. There may be crimes for which he can be indicted and prosecuted and sent to prison. For myself. But in a larger moral sense. For my family. And in a responsibility for harming american citizens. For my children. Its his biggest crime. And most importantly, for the United States of america [cheers and applause] are you tired of clean clothes that just dont smell clean . Downy unstopables inwash Scent Boosters keep your laundry smelling fresh waaaay longer than detergent alone. If you want laundry to smell fresh for weeks, make sure you have Downy Unstopables inwash Scent Boosters. When moderate to Severe Ulcerative Colitis takes you off course. Put it in check with rinvoq, a oncedaily pill. When i wanted to see results fast, rinvoq delivered rapid Symptom Relief and helped Leave Bathroom urgency behind. Check. When uc tried to slow me down. I got lasting, steroidfree remission with rinvoq. Check. And when uc caused Damage Rinvoq came through by visibly repairing my colon lining. Check. Rapid Symptom Relief. Lasting steroidfree remission. 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[incoherent shouting] and, you know, obviously, what happened next was something that i think was frustrating to a lot of Trump Supporters as well, because i think it gave people a reason to overshadow a lot of those accomplishments. My name is harry dunn. Im a officer with the United States capitol police. Im in my 14th year. I work on the First Responders unit. 911, i was 21 years old. I mean, i knew i wanted to do something. I just didnt know what it was. Ive always wanted to be a police officer. My personality fits with the way i believe policing should be done, protecting and serving. I remember being at a bus stop, and i saw an advertisement for us capitol police. I was angry. I was angry that, you know, that our country was attacked. And, you know, i felt like i owed a debt to my country. Every day i see that building, and its beautiful. I never get tired of seeing it. I take pictures of it almost every day. Slaves built that building. And here i am, 200 years later, a black man protecting what they built. If were wrong, we will be made fools of. But if were right, a lot of them will go to jail. [cheers] so. Lets have Trial By Combat. [cheers] come on, keep up your courage. Get up here. Theyre trying to push us back; we need bodies. When you have a person who has a reputation of authority and someone who has integrity, you know, americas mayor. Americas mayor is telling people that the election was stolen. His speech on january 6th was just the culmination of, you know, months and months of bullshit that he fed to the american people. And all these guys, like, went up there like some Sideshow Carnival and then wandered back to their hotel rooms and watched the fucking travesty unfold. [tragic opera music] all [chanting] America First America First America First America First America First America First America First fuck you all [chanting] usa usa [indistinct shouts] traitors youre traitors traitors and eventually, there was just a fullon battle at the capitol. I say, how can i help . What can i do . So as officers were being taken out of the fight, lacerations to their arms, legs, bleeding from the face, the mouth, they had bear spray, cans of wd40, raid, Throwing Batteries at people, fights over a guardrail and bike racks, because they were using them as weapons. Stand aside and let us in, you traitors [glass shatters] when i was pulled away from the line of officers. [shouting and screaming] i was pulled out into the crowd. As i was getting pulled, i was getting beaten pretty much from every direction. Some people were beating me with their fists. Some people were striking me with objects. That was when i first got struck from behind with a taser. Right around here, just at the base of my skull, the back side of my neck. They called us traitors. They told us to put down our weapons and join them. Trump invited us here. Were here to stop the steal. And then this woman, she came over and yelled out, hey, guys, this nword voted for joe biden. And she repeated it, and a couple other people, boo, fing nword. They were so barbaric. Officer down get him up they were like possessed zombies, and nothing that you could say to them mattered. [indistinct yelling] we started hearing chanting, yelling, screaming. There was the sound, ill really never forget, of people trying to barrel their way in, just smashing. It sounded like a log or a pipe up against the central door. [loud crash] everybody, stay down. There was screaming. People started taking off their little pins that we have because they didnt want to be identified in the event somebody showed up with an ar15. Theres people blocking the hallways outside. We have no way out. They had locked the door, barricaded themselves in, pushed the furniture up against the door when they were hiding under stenys desk. But they could hear the chanting too, hang mike pence. Hang mike pence. I saw some terrible, awful things that day. [explosives booming] just like, wow, is this where we are, man . Once the building had been cleared, i was sitting down on that bench with a good friend of mine, not just a coworker, hes a friend, and im just sobbing, tears are just rolling down my face. And, is this america . Overnight, a fifth death announced from the siege of the us capitol. Capitol police. I blame rudy more for that day than i do trump. He encouraged the insurrectionists to take the capitol. Thats what Trial By Combat means, by any means necessary. This election was stolen, and it has to be vindicated to save our republic. He plays to the Base Insecurity of people that need somebody to rally to them. Stop talking lets start hanging and that is what rudy has mastered, us against them. So hes become a folk hero to the crowd that needs an excuse to not deal with the reality of why we have different Social Problems and classes. He blames it on me. He blames it on you. If you were there in 92, watching rudy on january 6 in 2021, its like bookends. If they ran such a clean election, theyd have you come in and look at the paper ballots. It was a shameful choice back then. It was a shameful choice on january 6. Struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1 . Ask about vraylar. Because you are greater than your bipolar 1, and you can help take control of your symptoms with vraylar. Some medicines only treat the lows or highs. Vraylar treats depressive, acute manic, and mixed episodes of bipolar 1 in adults. Proven, fullspectrum relief for all bipolar 1 symptoms. And in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. 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Talk to your doctor or heres why you should switch fo to duckduckgo on all your Devie Duckduckgo comes with a builtn engine like google, but its pi and doesnt spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. And theres no catch. Its fre. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. Programs regularly scheduled tfor this time will notcy be seen today in order that we might bring you the following nbc news special report, Watergate Senate hearings. This is the Senate Caucus room in washington, dc, and the scene adds to the sense of drama as the senate opens what is likely to become the most Serious Investigation it has ever made, an investigation of the american political system and the presidency itself. Mr. Mccord, how much were you being paid by the Republican National committee . Approximately, sir, 625 a month. I dont want to diminish in any way watergate when understood in its entirety. I mean, because watergate was an effort also to fix an election and harass and persecute political opponents with government resources. There was a lot of very nefarious, unlawful stuff that took place. The president says to me to the effect of, im the fing president. Take me up to the capitol now. Mr. Trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engel. All [chanting] America First America First but if you compare the attempt to overthrow the 2020 election, storm the capitol, drive the Vice President out of the proceeding, and turn the presidency over to donald trump to the Watergate Hotel breakin, there really is no comparison. It is like a cub scout raid. I dont think Richard Nixon ever would have dreamed of something at that level of brazenness in terms of overthrowing the whole constitutional order. We just experienced the worst president ial political offense against constitutional democracy thats ever happened in our history. [tense music] National Guards have just been deployed. One of my proudest moments looking back that day, were protectors of democracy, right . Whats a more symbolic sign of democracy than going in a building that was still trashed, windows broken, the smell of oc gas and pepper spray lingering in the capitol. And you had members of congress that returned back and fulfilled their congressional duty that night. Whats a bigger sign of democracy . Thatthats saying, you all didnt win. Democracy goes on. The dome of this capital has always been a beacon of democracy. It is imperative that we seek the truth as to what happened. To do that, we believe that a Bipartisan Commission would be the best way. Donald trump, Rudy Giuliani, everybody involved is entitled to a presumption of innocence. And we believe very strongly in that. What were fighting for is the rule of law and peoples Constitutional Rights and democracy. Everything that they were trying to overthrow is everything that were trying to defend. I hope that there will be consequences for the people who committed crimes, and certainly, lots of people are going to jail. The select committee to investigate the january 6th attack on the United States capitol will be in order, to learn the facts and causes of the events leading up to and including the violent attack on january 6th, 2021, our democracy, electoral system, and country. I ran towards the west front, and i tried to hold the line. We can never again allow democracy to be put in peril. A couple of days after the election, when my father actually took over the legal team, he said, son, he said, if you learn one thing from me, he said, you tell the truth. Breaking news out of manhattan right now, the fbi has just raided the apartment of former new york mayor and close trump confidante, Rudy Giuliani. 6 00 in the morning, there was a big bang, bang, bang on the door. Rudy giulianis facing a lot of liabilities. I mean, theres been a raid on his apartments. Investigators have his electronics. There was probable cause to believe that there would be evidence of criminal wrongdoing. I dont know what the vote in michigan is, but its at least 300,000 or 400,000 votes off from what the real vote in michigan is. We have no idea if theyre signed, if theyre postmarked properly, if it isnt just the same person who submitted 100,000 ballots, and they all got counted. This is the way they intend to win. We live in this deeply polarized time, and rudy has played very directly into that. This isnt yet a dictatorship completely. Its getting there. I wish i was in a different state. I wish i was in a state that wasnt controlled by one party. That was always his approach. Like, i know where i want to go. Thats gonna be good for america. And if i got to tell some lies, if i got to play with reality a bit, im gonna do it. That aspect of rudys personalitys been there from the getgo. People who look at you, and they think that youve changed, that youve gone off the rails. I havent changed at all. Are you aware of that perception of you . Im aware of that, and whats gone whats happened is our countrys gone off the rail. Government and industry representatives from the Election Security community issued a joint statement reflecting a consensus perspective that the 2020 election was the most secure in us history. Rudy giuliani, who is involved in multiple facets of this game to overturn the 2020 election, is in talks with the committee about what form his testimony might take. What do we need to do to fortify our institutions and our values against coups and insurrections and Political Violence and efforts to usurp the will of the people . Thats really whats at stake here, democracy itself. [chanting] usa usa usa theres a structure to tyranny. An Essential Component of tyranny is corruption, the corruption of the leader, and then the financial and political corruption of the people who are drawn to that leader and who surround him. At this point, were boiling. I think the popularity of an extremely autocratic Rudy Giuliani and the way the media fell in love with him is a bad sign. We tend to love our autocrats, and we tend to hate the people who try to fix it, or were indifferent to them, and so im worried. Detect this living with hiv, i learned that i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. Thats why i switched to dovato. Dovato is a complete Hiv Treatment for some adults. 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The first fdacleared athome skin tag remover clinically proven to remove skin tags safely in as little as one treatment. The best advice i ever got was to invest with vanguard for my retirement. S the second best . Stay healthy enough to enjoy it. So i started preparing physically and financially. Then you came along and made every mile worth it. Hi mom. At vanguard youre more than just an investor, youre an owner. Helping you prepare for todays longer retirement. Thats the value of ownership. The rudy storys really about perception. Who he is and has been depends on who you ask. If you ask, like, a poor new yorker in the 90s, hes the worst, rich and white, hes the best. Now, for a trump fan, hes a truth teller, hes loyal to the bone. To a liberal, hes lost his mind. Its all about perception. [tranquil music] last night, rudys son, andrew giuliani, lost the republican primary for new york governor. Yeah. His biggest weakness, name recognition. [laughter] we need to make sure we are doing everything that we possibly can for our kids, to leave them a better state than was handed to us. We need to make sure that were fighting the way that the Rudy Giulianis and the Donald Trumps have fought to hand a better state and a better country to us that we offer our kids. And i promise you, ladies and gentlemen, that ill be fighting every single day to make sure that we truly can make new york great again. For all of us, lets get congress [indistinct]. [cheers and applause] and the best is truly yet to come. God bless you. God bless america. And god bless the great state of new york. Thank you. Im very shy. I dont like to take pictures. I dont like to take pictures. Oh, yeah, we can tell. I think its a sign of the times and how polarized we are. He obviously is hes the kind of guy that was, you know, the greatest mayor in the history of our country and the greatest mayor and the greatest prosecutor one of the greatest in the history of our country. And i think thats certainly a lot closer to the truth than what weve seen from the left. Because i know what im doing. [laughs] mr. Mayor. Excuse me, sir. And i worked really hard. Rudy giuliani, hes been in The Public Eye for 50 years. Hes kept himself in the bloodstream. If you violate the law, you go to prison. One of the people who organized this is wellknown for having worked with the Lincoln Project in the past. Iirudy, we cant just witnesses say that he helped to bring yo, yo, yo. You gotta let me finish. Even bannon stopped him and said, thats just going too far. Hey, this is why were getting blown up all the time. You cant throw a charge out there like that, and then say, yeah, i got a Double Secret Probation Guy who i cant mention. Theres just been a sense for some time within trumps inner circle that sometimes rudys a live wire, and hell say things that will come back to bite them. So you did ask ukraine to look into joe biden . Of course i did. So did Michael Cohen make payments to other women for the president . I would think if it was necessary, yes. This is Hunter Bidens laptop. And when you look at the photograph section, you see. Okay. 50 pictures. All right, come on, man. Of underage girls. Heres what well do. Ill be darned if theyre gonna take away our free and fair vote [cheers] i wonder about Rudy Giuliani, whether in fact, he got corrupted at the end of his career or what he was like at the beginning, because people say, what happened to Rudy Giuliani . He was such a hero. Im always suspicious of anybody being lionized in that way. I think its been a fascinating case, and i think it will continue to be. Thanks. Thank you. Or demonized, i suppose. I mean, youve got to ask, whats really behind it . I guess the influences on anyones life are in equal proportions, your parents and your schooling and your friends and the neighborhood that you grew up in. And my parents had a very, very Strong Influence on my life. He thought in operatic terms, and he thought of himself as the kind of hero martyr who would go up against the masked forces of evil, the villains, and smite them, and perhaps even be destroyed in the process, and die a glorious death. Thats not the way most politicians think. Youve got a temper. [laughs] im aim a person who feels very strongly about things like integrity. So how is it that he became this farcical figure who had put himself at the service of a clown, a terribly dangerous and malevolent clown . I dont have a specific answer. I dont know. I think that if you are as blindly selfrighteous as rudy was, and as selfseeking as rudy was, that is to say, as ambitious as rudy was, its gonna lead you into very dangerous places and a different kind of trajectory. How a man once known as americas mayor arrived at this moment. This was americas mayor. Americas mayor. Hes the mayor of new york city. Ladies and gentlemen, Rudy Giuliani. The misperception that somehow donald trump changed Rudy Giuliani needs to be dealt with. When you say black lives matter, thats inherently racist. People need to go through his record. This Police Department has done more than any Police Department in the United States to train its Police Officers to be respectful. Rudy giuliani always, without any tutoring from donald trump and im the last person to defend donald trump, but without any tutoring from donald trump, used demagoguery, halftruths, and provocation all of his career. Even at his strongest moment, it showed me how limited he was. And 9 11 gave him the opportunity. All of us have made mistakes in public life growing up, but if you get an opportunity, you grow, and you show your growth. He couldnt do it. It just was not him. We begin this hour with Breaking News. In new york, there are civil and criminal investigations into the former president s business dealings. And in georgia, a Special Grand Jury is looking into efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Tomorrow in atlanta, Rudy Giuliani is expected to testify. We will not talk about this until its over. Its a grand jury, and a grand jurys, as i recall, a secret. Do you believe President Trump is the ultimate target of this investigation . Im not gonna comment on the grand jury investigation. Rudy giuliani has finally, today, learned to talk like a lawyer again. What are you expecting to talk about here today . Well, they ask the questions, and well see. Will you be cooperative . I mean, your attorney in new york says he cant promise how responsive youll be. Because if he tells the truth, it wont set him free. I think an indictment is is a foregone conclusion here. Its just a question of whether he flips on trump. I mean, i think the endgame for Rudy Giuliani at this point is staying out of prison. [dramatic music] jimmy breslin, those of you who were born more recently, was a great newspaper columnist. And he once described giuliani as a dictator in search of a balcony, and i think that was about right. He almost got the balcony, and then he blew it. This is not about partisanship. This is about patriotism. This is about protecting the foundation of our democracy. The hunter is back, what do we do . All stand up, fight back. [chanting] hip hip, ho ho, donald trump has got to go. Its a question of citizenship, who has the right to be heard in our nation . Weve got an avalanche of lies, propaganda, and disinformation, which, by the way, is the Standard Operating Procedure of tyrants and dictators and bullies and strongmen all over the earth. Democracy is not the default condition for the way that people live in this world, and it never has been. Its very hard to do what were trying to do. And if the us pulls it off, honestly, itll be a miracle. The question is not, what are they doing . The question is, what are we going to do about it . [noah] im still a kid wanting to be a kid, trying to be a kid, but trying to be myself and be comfortable with myself around other people. I never thought that id be in the spotlight of a lot of political things ever