Transcripts For MSNBCW Alex 20240704

Phone about the moment of paper theyre dealing with. Its coming up. I had an intuition that would be there. When you see stacks of paper compared to national monuments, and you at home are going to get treated to that in just a few seconds. Thank you, my friend. You bet. Thank you all for joining us this hour. We have breaking news tonight as i just mentioned. If your calender was marked for this coming monday when President Trump was set to hold a Press Conference he was promised would exonerate him from the allegations laid out in that Fulton County indictment, if that was a date reserved on your ical, im sorry to inform you it has been called off. Trump says tonight his legal team is instead putting the overwhelming evidence in formal legal filings. He adds, therefore the News Conference is no longer necessary. That news comes right after trumps legal team in another case finally gave its answer as to when they believe the former president should go to trial. Trumps team is arguing tonight that the 2020 federal election case brought by special counsel jack smith should go to trial in April Of 2026. That is a whopping two years, 7 months, and 16 days from now. It notably comes well after the point in which trump could be back in office and able to pardon himself or just make this case disappear altogether. And his legal teams joefgz for this date is classically trumpy. Remember, if you will, when President Trump first took office and had to prove to everyone he had disentangled himself from his business interests, and he stood next to this giant pile of folders there they are and claimed they contained the evidence he had signed everything over to his son. Now, trump refused to let anyone actually look at the contents of those folders, but, hey, it was a lot of paper, it was a lot of folders. And today the argument from his defense team felt a bit like that. In their formal, formal legal filing the defense included this graph showing the height in feet of all the evidence jack smith will turn over to the defense and comparing that height to the Statue Of Liberty and the washington monument. Youll see the Discovery Evidence is a lot taller than both the Statue Of Liberty and the washington monument. Trumps counsel compared getting through all that evidence of having to read the entirety of tolstoys War And Peace 70 times from now until december. And they do have a point, it is quite a bit of reading. That said, we have no idea how much of the evidence provided here will be duplicate information and how much of it will include things trump has always had access to, like, for example, the contents of his own twitter account. Moreover, typically its not just one person doing all that reading. Its why people retain entire legal teams to help them in cases like this. Nonetheless, trump and his lawyers argue theyll not be ready to go to trial until april of the year 2026, which is a decidedly different date than the one promised by special counsel jack smiths team. Ultimately both of these dates are just suggestions. The trial date in this is the judges decision and at the hearing last friday the judge presiding over this case made it clear a key deciding factor was going to be how trump conducted himself outside the courtroom. She said even arguably statements of counsel can threaten the process. The more a party makes inflammatory statements about this case which could taint the jury pool or intimidate potential witnesses, the greater the urgency will be we proceed to trial quickly. There are a lot of reasons to think trumps April Of 2026 date is unrealistic, but this, the one outlined by the judge is number one. Today trump and his former attorney general bill barr had dueling interviews. Trump was on fox business, barr was on fox news. Remember that bill barr announced his resignation as attorney general the day the trump fake electors met all over the country, december 14, 2020. Trump had asked barr to use the Department Of Justice for things like name a special counsel to investigate voter fraud and to use the Department Of Justice to seize voting machines. So barr is a potentially key witness here. And barr had said as recently as this month that he will appear as a witness if called to do so. And so in the hours before trumps and barrs dueling interviews, trump posted this online. Why does fox news constantly put on slow thinking and lethargic bill barr who didnt have the courage to fight Election Fraud . Then after the interview Trump Reposted Marjorie Taylor greenes case that bill barr is a traitor. And hes postally similarly arguably threatening things about former Vice President mike pence as well as georgias governor, its Lieutenant Governor and its secretary of state. And also today again he posted a bunch of videos like this. How dare lowlife prosecutor deranged jack smith thats right, hes deranged. Deranged jack smith at the doj. The fake political indictment against me must be immediately withdrawn. The system is rigged and corrupt very much like the president ial election of 2020, and we have plenty of proof on that. Does that count of stuff count as the type of arguably ambiguous statements that might be perceived as threats . Joining me now to get to the bottom of all that is barbara mcquade, former attorney for the Eastern District of michigan, as well as mark looeb witch. Have you ever seen an argument similar to this one complete with a graphic showing how the Discovery Evidence would measure up to the Statue Of Liberty . No, and i have not seen a defendant so desperate to delay the trial theyre asking for a date more than two years down the road. Its a really audacious request. Its not only the defendant that has a right to a speedy trial, it is also the public that has the right to a speedy trial. The public has an interest in a position so that a person can either be held accountable or exonerated, and theres also an interest in making sure witness memories dont fade and the evidence is Still Available when the case goes to trial. This argument about there are terrabytesf of documents is true. The way this is reviewed today it was sorted, it is searchable, the way you would go about a modern Computer Search and not the way you would read War And Peace at the time it was written. But, you know, hat tip for the tolstoy reference, mark. What is abundantly clear the day trump is trying to kick this trial to 2026 is the day hes out there making the kind of statements that could be perceived as witness intimidation, stuff that could trigger the judge to move the trial date up in time. How do you square the sort of desperation that is evident in this legal filing as it pertains to the trial date and the behavior of the client at the center of all this . Like so many things in trump world its just doesnt seem terribly well thought out. The 2026 date, the proposed date, its something of a joke. Look how people have responded to it. I would of course worry it would interfere with the Midterm Election in 2026. Nobody talked about that, alex. But theres actually going to be a very serious response to this, and at some point the judge will weigh in on this probably sooner rather than later especially as trump and many of his surrogates continue to sort of press her hand and, you know, behave in ways that are very close to the line if not over the line. So at some point shes going have to give a very solemn assessment of this, and itll probably come sooner. As you said and suggested this is working against his interest and in fact he wants to delay this as long as possible. Just another sort of legal note, barb, i mean to your point this evidence will be sort of digested in a way that is not like reading War And Peace. Theres also the man power concern, right . Its not just one lawyer going to be tasked with doing that, presumably. But we talked about this last night, trump does have a weirdly skeletal legal crew assisting him in all this. I think tom blanche has a law firm with two lawyers. The question is when will trump spend money to hire more lawyers . That seems like a necessity at this point, does it tot . Youll see associates or temporary associates that come onboard to do discovery review. Therell be a lawyer overseeing all of it, telling them what it is theyre looking for and the lawyers review that for the things they need. Certainly more resources can come to bear than just a lawyer reading each page of the document. I think whats going to happen is first the trial date will get set and then hell retain the lawyers he needs to meet that deadline. Mark, as we talk about how incorrigible trumps behavior is here and ever where, it is worth noting he canceled the Press Conference he was supposed to have on monday, which i know was marked on your calender in all red. You were busy all day im sure because of advice from his lawyers. Does that signal to you and i know i can answer my own question before i finish it, but does that signal to you there is some part of trump and the trumpian reptilian brain hes aware of the peril hes in and at least occasionally listening to counsel . One would hope. The big question is opticwise, and i have feeling donald trump is not going to sit this one out. I dont know if hes likely to go to debate in milwaukee on wednesday, if hell have something dramatic up his sleeve there, but i wouldnt count him out of the news cycle next week by any stretch. But also just because hes standing down and saying, okay, this will be in the legal filing, which does seem to make some sound legal sense for once, there are a lot of ways he can get into the news and insiniate himself into whats going to be a very big week for the republican campaign. Yes, im sure this is not the only time were going to be hearing from donald trump about his exoneration. Barb, ive got to ask to give the defense team any sort of credit here, they raise the issue of classified material. They talk about how the government is offering its own edit of relevant documents and saying we shouldnt have to go by our accusers selection of whats relevant. Do they have a point here in any of this filing that the judge will listen to, that could cause a judge to actually say you know what january is far too soon, im going to give you i dont know july . Do you see any relevant points here that are going to give the judge pause when she schedules the trial date . Sure. And i think jack smith tried to accommodate those things as well. 70 days is usually the first trial date that gets issued, but january is still, what, five months away inbut no doubt there are issues that i think could cause a judge to believe that more time is necessary than that. As you point out, the small amount of classified information is one thing that they will have to deal with. We dont know exactly what that is, but people may need clearances. They need to figure out how theyre going to handle that, so that will take some time. And then also the idea that youve got other kinds of things that need to be reviewed before then, that there is a significant volume of documents here. All of that makes sense. The judge has to decide what really is due process here, what amount of time is reasonable by balancing both a defendants need to have reasonable preparation but also the governments right to protect the Public Interest in a speedy trial. Yeah. When we talk about the trial whenever its scheduled, mark, the reality is that journalists, americans, other candidates are going to be witnessing the strangest split screen probably in american political history, which is do we have the calender. You have the Iowa Caucuses on the 15th of january. You have trumps civil Defamation Case the same day, trumps civil fraud case two weeks later the Month Of March is peppered with caucuses and trials. This is what this is what election season 2024 is going to be, and it truly is like unlike anything we have ever seen in this country, the fact the presumed frontrunner is going to be bouncing back, pingponging between you know, pressing the flesh in iowa and New Hampshire and nevada and South Carolina and going on trial. This seems like the reality were barrelling towards. Yeah, you know, it does make your head explode in some ways. What im actually curious about is whether donald trump actually welcomes this. Obviously no one wants to be indicted four times on however many counts. This is not an enviable position to be in, but when youre someone as pathological as donald trump is and feeds on the attention as much as he does and someone whos been so successful in leveraging attention like this, in some cases very negative attention into political capital, you have to wonder could he be so happy hes going to be in the middle of all this, and yes, its a split screen, but hell actually be on both screens . Its true its what were looking at, and it feels kind of hellish. Certainly its fascinating, but youre right its unprecedented. I dont know if i would even use the modifier kind of. Just hellish. Barbara mcquade and mark liebovich, thank you for your time tonight. We have much more still ahead including new threats against the jurors who recommended Donald Trumps fourth indictment and what Fulton County is doing to protect those citizens, but first the republican response to their frontrunners 91 felony charges. Just take it to the ballot box. Thats the response. And thats next. Stay with us. Next. Stay with us wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. Its to die for. And its all right here. Streaming was never this easy, you know. This is the way. You really went all out didnt you . Um, its called commitment. Could you turn down the volume . Here, you can try. Get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. It is, frankly, impossible for republicans to ignore the onslaught of legal peril surrounding their frontrunner in the president ial primary right now, but as far as their responses to all that go, well, those responses range. Fight the allegations, deny everything, or do whatever this is. Theyre trying to send a message loud and clear, and the message is dont mess with us. And why are they going after trump . Because he messed with them. He challenged them across the board. He challenged their prowar policies, challenge them on ukraine, challenged their agenda. Senator josh holley arguing Donald Trumps legal troubles are not a result of trying to overthrow a democratically elected government, holley says donald trump is being targeted because he challenged the globalest agenda. Remember this is the same josh holley who Egged On The January 6th Rioters with an enthusiastic fist bump in the morning and was later spotted running, sprinting to safety once the insurrection began. In that moment when he was running senator holley might have identified the mob he was running from as a group of Trump Supporters trying to overthrow the government, but if you ask senator holley about that same mob today, he would tell you mob is was simply an expression of defiance against a globalist cabal. Those are some of the republican differentials that have been floated since trumps fourth indictment this week. And here is one more. January 6th i was there, i saw it, he was impeached over it. The American People can decide whether they want him to be president or not. This should be decided at the ballot box, not at a bunch of liberal jurisdictions trying to put the man in jail. This is joe biden and this is the democrats weaponizing the Justice System because theyre afraid of the voters. I understand that democrats and liberals in the media cant stand donald trump and theyll do anything to stop him, but it would be much better from their Point Of View and the point of the view of the country if they try to stop him on the Campaign Trail and that the ballot box and let theAmerican People make these choices. Republican senators Lindsey Graham and ted cruz and tom cotton are making the argument that donald trump should not be held accountable for his actions in a court of law. Instead, Donald Trumps future should be decided by the will of the voters. The thing is, though, we already tried that. And the last time trump and his allies were given the chance to obey the will of the voters in 2020, they decided they did not like what the voters had to say. They did not like the will of the voters and so then they tried to overthrow the results of the election, and that is the essence of at least two of these indictments here. And so perhaps as a back stop to that strategy there is another contingent of republicans in Congress Just trying to shut the whole thing down. Cbs news reported this week there are not one, not two, but three republicanbacked proposals in congress to defund jack smiths investigation as a way to stop his charges from ever reaching the courtroom. Joining me now is former United States senator claire mccaskill. Claire, thank you for being here. We put that josh holley sound in there just for you, but i would like you to respond to the notion that donald trump is being indicted because he is pushing back against a globalist cabal. Does that hold any water for you, claire . Well, its stupid. And these guys are all lawyers. And i think three of them went to harvard. I mean harvard has to be so embarrassed at this point. You know, this is alice in wonderland stuff, alex. When the impeachment happened after the president tried to mastermind a conspiracy to hold onto power, to foment a big lie about the election, to push for an insurrection, they all said and ted cruz said it specifically, you know, we have courts for this, we should not convict him on the impeachment because we have courts, right . So now the rule of law is doing what it must in this country, and that is recognize the facts and apply the law, and what are these guys saying now . Oh, well, lets let the voter speak. They are hiding under their desks. Its a bunch of cowards making things up, and theyre going to be in trouble in november because the vast majority of the country kind of sees what theyre doing. Yeah, you know, pointing out the fact they all i mean ted cruz, tom cotton, josh holley, these are guys that have gone to top tier law schools, highly educated in the law and who for a time were seen as the leading lights of the next generation of republican leaders. I find it staggering that this is the position that theyre taking, and i think when you couple that with the polling that we have, new poll, this is from semafor this morning finds Donald Trumps legal troubles could prove fatal. It says 24 of republicans say the charges make them less likely to vote for trump against biden. Polling is what it is, but that is the first indicator we have this is not nothing, this is not business as usual. I wonder to the degree to which you think theres any kind of recalibration inside the higher echelons of the Republican Party. I think people are scared to death in the higher echelons of the Republican Party. More than 50 of who call themselves republican in america are for donald trump despite almost a hundred Felony Counts against him in both state and federal jurisdictions. So they cannot go against this base. Theyre too afraid, if they can and they have real leaders they wont go against this base. The independents are up now according to gallop close to 50 3ers. The majority of the independents in this country dont want more donald trump and certainly the democrats dont, so they do not have a path to victory in a general election, and they kind of know it. And trump has kind of rigged it Toosh Wheretoosh speaking of rigging hes switched a bunch of states to winner take all. So these other republican candidates if they cant beat him outright in a bunch of states, he takes all the delegates in those states, which makes it very difficult for anybody whos polling at 10, 15, even 20 now to ever have a chance. Yes, ron desantis, were talking to you. Claire, i do wonder, you know, of the things the republicans are doing to make it problem go away other than saying let this be decided at the ballot box, we chose to highlight this push in congress to defund the special counsels office because as much as i would sort of wave that away as a Harebrained Fringe rightwing idea were talking about a speaker of the house Kevin Mccarthy whos willing to abide almost any lunatic idea his base floats out there whether its packing his Appropriations Bills with political nonstarters, what have you. Do you think the idea that special counsel jack smith, his efforts should be defunded could actually emerge as a line of argument with this modern republican conference . Not going to happen in the senate, i can tell you that for sure. Keep in mind that theres a lot of senators that are from states where they have to win the independent voters to stay in office. Theyre not gerrymandered. You have states like ohio and pennsylvania and nevada and montana where people want to get elected and they cant do it without independent voters. So they are never going to go for defunding jack smith at this point. Thats never going to happen. All its going to do is make the Republican Party look more isolated from most maamericans right now. I think the medfer of a box canyon is so right, but weirdly equally they also have an offramp. You know, its a difficult offramp, but this is the point if you want to quit donald trump 91 Felony Counts is a great exit sign, and yet nobody seems to want to walk through that door. Claire mccaskill, always wise, the ever sage former senator from missouri. Claire, its great to see you. Thanks for your time. Thank you, alex. Still ahead this evening the weird, weird, weird, weird world of president ial politics and what this weird, weird, weird footage of Mitch Mcconnell helps explain about the Desantis Campaign. But first before that while donald trump attacks the Fulton County d. A. , the farright is now going after the grand jury. That is next. Is next trelegy for copd. Birds flyin high, you know how i feel. Breeze driftin on. [coughing]. By, you know how i feel. If youre tired of staring down your copd,. Its a new dawn, its a new day. Stop settling. And im feelin good. Start a new day with trelegy. No oncedaily Copd Medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. With three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy makes breathing easier for a full 24 hours, improves lung function, and helps prevent future flareups. Trelegy wont replace a Rescue Inhaler for sudden breathing problems. Tell your doctor if you have a Heart Condition or high Blood Pressure before taking it. Do not take trelegy more than prescribed. Trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. 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As nbc news reports the purported names and addresses of those members have been posted on websites that feature violent rhetoric. Images of people that are believed to be member of the grand jury have also been posted online. Today the Fulton County Sheriffs Office said it was aware personal information of members of the Fulton County grand jury is being shared on various platforms. The office said it is working to track down the origin of threats in Fundamentalen County and other jerks and to ensure the safety of those individuals who carried out their civic duty. Joining me now is the former d. A. For decalb county in georgia. Maybe we can begin with how and why it is customary in the state of georgia for the name of grand jurors tuesday be included in an indictment. The simple answer is that its required by georgias code of criminal procedure. Theres a specific statute that says the grand jurors selected, chosen and sworn in the county of here fulton to whit. And in every indictment ive seen in my 17 years as a prosecutor you then go onto list the names of the grand jurors that heard the matter and you cross off the snakes of anyone either not there that day or didnt hear that evidence. This is required by the code. And the only instance that ive been able to find where it is not required is when the grand jury is investigating a use of force case by a peace officer, a use of deadly force case. And after Hearing Evidence they decide not to return an indictment. That is not the case that we have here, so there is it was required by law that these names be listed, and its unfortunate that some apparently have taken it upon themselves to provide private information about these residents who are doing their civic duty, and now were seeing the types of threats that were seeing across through various electronic means. Yeah, i would assume that nothing like this has happened before. Is that accurate . Not at least in my experience, and i think what folks need to realize is that when you use Electronic Communications across state lines its not just a local issue for the sheriff to address. Thats what brings the federal Law Enforcement agencies into the play. And so, again, i would assume that Sheriff Labat is working with all the various Law Enforcement agencies that can bring resources to bear to be able to protect these residents. Can i ask just in terms of the impact that this is going to have on the trial itself, i mean when theres going to be a new jury that has to be seated and the prospect of witness intimidation, what impact do you think this has on pretrial motions and just the general climate surrounding the runup to an actual trial . Well, in my experience ive seen it whereas you get to the actual trial jury even when you have cameras in the courtroom, the judge orders that those cameras cannot show the jurors faces, they have to constantly be directed away from the jurors. And in most instances the only juror that is known is the foreperson who actually signs whether its a guilty or not guilty verdict. So in that respect i think there are more protections or at least there arent means in the code that require the disclosure of the grand jurors name or the jurors names in a trial. That seems the current landscape. Ive got to ask theres been a lot of back and forth today about the proposed schedule d. A. Fani willis has laid out. Jeffrey clark whos one of the codefendants in this indictment is saying the arraignment for defendants the week of September 5th and a trial on march 4th, they are concerned Jeffrey Clark is concerned about the political nature of this case and the steps taken by the state thus far. Do you i mean how much credence do you think the judge is going to give to codefendants who are calling this all politics . I guess i should say how likely do you think it is d. A. Willis is going to get anything within the ballpark of march 24 as far as a trial . Well, two things. First of all, d. A. Willis has said both the night she returned the indictment and throughout the course of her career that she makes her decisions based on it facts, the evidence she can present at trial and the law. She does not make decisions based on partisan politics, and so i find it interesting that those that may view this case through a political lens are transferring that lens to her when she has made it clear that that is not her framing. With respect to the timing, we have also heard her say she was ready to try this case in six months. That may seem ambitious to some, but if you think about it, if she had said anything less than a ready to go sort of stance, people would question whether she actually has her witnesses together, her evidence together. And shes making it very clear that she is ready to go. Now, obviously with the number of defendants that we have, theres going to be a lengthy pretrial motion, lengthy discovery process. But i think its important to keep things moving, and i think the d. A. Would want to keep things moving so that justice whatever it may look like based on the facts that are presented at trial can be achieved as expeditiously as possible. Yeah, i mean im sure the Trump Defense team has a different date in mind given the fact theyre trying to schedule a more narrow case on the same topic, a federal indictment in and around the 2020 election for april of the year 2026. Do you have any thoughts on that . Again, i think its important each case needs to be viewed separately. And i can speak to you about what its like to be the d. A. In georgia faced with presenting a case of this caliber, this complexity. But the key really is to stay focused on your oath, stay focused on the facts and law, and thats exactly what d. A. Willis is doing. Gwen keyes flemming, thank you as always for your time and thoughts. Great to see you. My pleasure. When we come back some anew reporting about the president ial campaign of Florida Governor ron desantis. It reminds us of this very odd video of republican senator Mitch Mcconnell that was taken nearly ten years ago. There he is. Stick around for the explanation why. Thats coming up next. Explanatn why. Thats coming up next. Rsv is in for a surprise. Meet arexvy. the first fdaapproved rsv vaccine. Arexvy is used to prevent lower Respiratory Disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. Rsv can severely affect the lungs and lower airways. Arexvy is proven to be over 82 effective in preventing lower Respiratory Disease from rsv and over 94 effective in those with these health conditions. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. Those with weakened Immune Systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. The most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. Rsv can be serious. Talk to your doctor or pharmacist about arexvy today. Rsv . Make it arexvy. What im about to show you here might be one of the strangest Political Campaign videos in history. The video just goes on like that for 2 1 2 minutes. Theres no narration. There are no sound bites. Its like the Intro To A 90s sitcom where all the characters are played by the senior senator from kentucky. Now, that video was released by Mitch Mcconnells Reelection Campaign back in 2014 and perhaps he will find it reassuring to know that they had a reason for doing this. Under u. S. Campaign finance rules politicians are prohibited from coordinating with the super pacs that support them, but over the years campaigns have found creative ways around those rules. A Campaign Watchdog group noted at the time mcconnells campaign likely put out that video publicly so that his super pac could then use the footage to make their own Mitch Mcconnell ads. The plausible deniability for any Campaign Finance violation here appears to be, hey, were not coordinating with any super pacs, we just really wanted to make this strange Stock Footage video. We just needed it to be out there. And the story of that weird video is actually pretty helpful in understanding what happened with ron Desantis Campaign. According to the New York Times a firm aassociated with the super pac has has reportedly taken over Desantis Campaign posted online hundreds of pages of blunt advice, Research Memos and internal polling in early nominating states to guide the Florida Governor ahead of the high stakes republican president ial debate next wednesday. That reporting was confirmed by nbc news. The memo urges desantis to attack joe biden and the media three to five times, state his own positive vision two to three times because apparently vision is less important than attacking joe biden in the media. It instructs Governor Desantis to hammer vivek ramaswamy, the outside Candidate Cutting into desantis Second Place Standing and defend donald trump in absentia. To be clear the attack is defend the guy who was beating him in the polls by attacking the guy who was losing to him. It doesnt have to do if interest donald trump shows up to the debate. Why would they post all that sensitive Campaign Research online for anyone including desantis opponents might see it . We cannot say for sure, but, man, it sure seems like an attempt to get around those coordination rules about campaigns and super pacs. In other words, we arent trying to tell the campaign what to do, we just really wanted to post this sensitive Campaign Guidance on the internet. This Evening A Desantis spoke person told nbc news this was not a Campaign Memo and we were not aware of it prior to the article. Having said that the debate is less than a week away, and well all get to see whether or not ron desantis really does try to execute on that strategy. Have your big go cards at the ready. Our big go cards at the ready. Have any idea . That they can sell their Life Insurance policy for cash . So theyre basically sitting on a goldmine . I dont think they have a clue. 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Get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. Wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. Its to die for. And its all right here. Streaming was never this easy, you know. This is the way. You really went all out didnt you . Um, its called commitment. Could you turn down the volume . Here, you can try. Get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. The video we are about to show you was captured by a Security Camera at a Conservation Center on the Hawaiian Island of maui late monday night just hours before devastating wildfires swept the island. It shows a bright flash and then the camera immediately cuts out after losing power. According to a company that monitors power grids across the u. S. This is probably whats known as an arc flash, which can happen when a power line sparks after coming into contact with things like trees or vegetation. When the Conservation Centers camera kicks back on you can see a fire breaking out in the distance right there, and that was the first of several fires reported earlier this week, and its important to point out its not the exact one that destroyed the coastal town of lahaina on maui. The official death toll from all of mauis wildfires is 111 people, and it is expected to rise with estimates of more than 1,000 people still unaccounted for, but videos like this one from the Conservation Center are adding to scrutiny of hawaiis largest utility, hawaiian electric, as residents are trying to pin down exactly what sparked those catastrophic wildfires. Joining me now is disaster and extreme weather reporter for the washington post. She was recently on the Ground Reporting in hawaii. Briana, thanks for being here. I found your reporting to be so illuminating in terms of whats going on here. This video which is riveting and very disconcerting. Can you tell me a bit more the expectation is these wildfires were caused by these power lines . Is that sort of the working thesis at this point . Yeah, that can be apparent pretty early on. Residents say power lines have caused quite a few fires on the island over the years, and they dont deploy a Public Safety power shutoff program, and there were all these reports from videos and residents themselves of power lines swinging, sparking in the wind. So thats its definitely the overwhelming sentiment that the Power Equipment caused the multiple fires on the island. And yeah, and from your reporting it sounds like in the run up to these explosive wildfires that just hit maui, there were numerous calls made to the Electrical Company from residents who were trying to, you know, complain about or at least Register Lines that were in precarious positions and pose real Public Safety risks, is that right . Yes, theres been years of them demanding to for the Power Company to put the infrastructure underground, oo fix the lines, to clear the trees. Its been an ongoing plea from them because they know theyre susceptible to wildfires especially with drought making the grass around them much, much dryer. And the winds have also gotten increasingly more powerful. It really sounds like hawaii has been or maui in particular, The Powers That Be have been very slow to adapt to the realities of Climate Change because not only do you have this electrical grid that seems very precarious which i think is the best word i can think of to use, but you have the implanting of these evasive nonnative grasses highly flammable. Theyre all over the island. Theres no Building Standards as there are in california to make sure buildings are adaptive to wildfires or flame retardant, as it were. And then theres an issue with water and shutting down dams. What can you tell us about what is being looked at right now in term of the various things that need to be ameliorated or changed so that Something Like this never happens again . There are a lot of factors that go back years that are complicated in terms of land and water rights. But i think the thing is theres this Big Disconnect which i found on the ground that this place is prone to wildfire. Everyone know theres a wildfire, it happens every year, and yet officials just dont think of wildfires. Theyre dialled in for hurricane response, yet they did not deploy their Hurricane Sirens to warn residents about this incoming danger. Theyre under immense scrutiny for that. And the grassland is a big problem. Theres a lot of issues with plantation lands shutting down, developers whose responsible for managing these lands taking water away from Native Hawaiians and diverting it toward the resorts. The Fire Hydrants ran out of water. That is not the first time this has happened. Theres been multiple or pleas for accounts for past fires, and its unclear whether any investigations had been dug into the causes of those fires, so the residents feel like they were really setup for this to happen. You were just you just i think got back from hawaii. Yeah, i dont know what time zone im in right now, but i did just get back. What can you tell us about the response as it stands right now because the stories were hearing are that locals are not getting what they need. We know President Biden is going to be visiting i think next week on monday, but what about the Disaster Response . Has it been in any way adequate . Were hearing about people crowd funding to get supplies and again, going back to the fact these people, specifically natives this is not their first rodeo, so they have this Disaster Response infrastructure setup that just came online in really impressive speed. Theyre called pods. They have Distribution Centers setup and talking on walkietalkies because power and comms has been an issue. They were wondering 72 hours after this fire, its one of the biggest ports in the world, why there werent supplies coming in, why it took so long to get federal and state resources. Its definitely more bustling now than it was a week ago, but people are still struggling for information. Well, thank you so much for the reporting youve been doing from there. It has been essential and again so illuminating. Thanks for your time tonight. We appreciate it. All right, that is our show for this evening. Way too early with Jonathan Lemire is coming up next. So it was a calculated and deceitful plan to remain in office by nullifying or negating certified votes. People who defended say that he genuinely did feel that he was robbed and this was the good fight and the proper fight. Well, even if did even if he believed that doesnt mean he can use illegal means to rectify it. If you think the bank is unfairly keeping your money, there are many things you can do to get it back. You cant go a