Were in the clear. The video showing stone talk about the elector scheme in the early days of november, 2020, hence at more daubs to be connected. That is the context for the massive reaction to the tape first aired right here on the beat last night. The reaction coming from across the Media Landscape to write here on msnbc. Trump ally, roger stone, dictating an outline of that plot to his assistant. Exclusive, new evidence obtained by my colleague shows, could have some explaining to do. He is laying out the fraudulent electors scheme. It is amazing there hasnt been any indictments. It is impossible logic, how he could use this to not go against the trump. He is discussing this plot when trump isnt even officially the loser. There are a number of people just like roger stone having that same idea at the same time. The footages from danish filmmaker, Christopher Gould branson, shot for his documentary, a storm foretold. It shows longterm gop strategist and trump ally, roger stone, on november 5th, 2020. Lets be clear, that is two days after the election, but two days before the race was called for joe biden. Stone is dictating a message about the elector plot. The message is intended for his associates on an encrypted group chat. There is a portion of the footage. Any legislative body may decide, on the basis of overwhelming evidence of fraud, to send electors to the Electoral College, who accurately reflect the president s legitimate victory in their state, which was illegally denied him through fraud. We must be prepared to lobby our republican legislatures. You heard it. Roger stone outlining a plan to get republican State Legislatures to take control of the election results. The newly revealed footage marks one of the earliest known points at which trump allies discussed the electors part. Msnbc legal analyst Andrew Wiseman pointing out stone was doing this while out on bail from his conviction in the molar probe. That was for Witness Tampering and lying to congress, and trump later pardoned him. Stone declined to comment yesterday. Today, he did respond on social media saying in part, roger stone still did nothing wrong. We dont know if or to what extent stone elected on the elector plot. The January 6th Committee did obtain the contents of the encrypted group chat no one was addressing. According to New York Times, some members are only identified by nicknames or officials. Includes stop as the organizers and rightwing organizers like in re guitar yeo, head of the problem is, and stewart rhodes, head of the oath keepers. Joining me to speak on all of this is nick offerman, former watergate prosecutor who interviewed roger stone when investigating the nixon case. And emily vaslet, legal writer for the new york magazine. Thank you so much for joining us today, because this is astounding. Nick, i just want to start with this. Given your history with roger stone, given what we now have him on tape saying, can you understand why he wasnt a part of a new set of indictments . Or, do you think that he might be sort of an unindicted Co Conspirator . Do you think he flipped . How is that man still Walking Around free if he was still engaging in something so blatant, even if we just revealed it again with this video . Well, i think the real problem here is that in the january 6th indictment that was brought to the District Of Columbia by jack smith, he wanted to keep it really simple, and had only donald trump as a defendant so he could get this to trial in january or february of next year. Now, with respect to roger stone, i guarantee you they have something on him. I mean, just to give you a couple little tidbits, we know that roger stone was on capitol hill on january 5th, the day before the riot. He was hanging out with the very people that you just mentioned in that group chat, the proud boys, and the oath keepers. In fact, he was photographed with the three of the oath keepers who have pled guilty to seditious conspiracy and agreed to cooperate with the government. None of those witnesses, those three witnesses have not been called in any of the oath keeper trials. And i think the radical reason is, probably they are saving those people for roger stone. If they had had them testify in the original trials, they would have had to turn over all of the statements and reveal what they have said about roger stone. So, my sense is that roger stones day is coming. Buckle up your seatbelt, and just sit and wait. Emily, so, what i heard roger stone saying in the tape and maybe i am off about this but it seems like it was sort of a sloppy, 10th grade, Political Science project version of the independent legislature theory, that legislatures can kind of make their own rules, and be their own power falls within them. Lets play devils advocate for a second. Is there anything inherently wrong with him just voicing a Crackpot Theory . What is it about this particular video that is so damning . It is not just what he is saying, but it is the time he is saying it, right . Ya, it is the time he is saying it, a couple of days after the election. We know from the indictment in the georgia case, that other people are being indicted for taking actions over at ask, in the words of rico, the statute issued here, to take action to further this plot to put fake electors up. And thus, overturn the legitimate results of the election. Still, it seems like he is thinking through that plan here. If i was his lawyer, i would try to put a lot of weight on the fact that he says republicans may need to go to lobby their State Legislatures. And so, i suppose with that kind of hedge, you could argue he is just putting together a theory, he is just imagining a world of fraud, as opposed to claiming that there is actually fraud, and telling people to go get started. So, the New York Times has this heading about the Friends Of Stone, nick. It talks about this group chat, the list suggests that mr. Stone had the means to be in contact with key players on january 6th, political organizers, rightwing extremists, media figures who hoped to play down the attack look, you mentioned this before. We know where roger stone was, we know he was helping to set fires. What is the significance when we think about the threats that have come to state legislature, the threats come to elected officials what is the significance of him being on tape with people who we know have publicly advocated and engaged in, and offered aid and comfort to people who have committed acts of violence for donald trump . Well, it is very significant because roger stone is basically Donald Trumps go to guy for dirty tricks. This is the person he relied on, in terms of interfacing with the russian agents who had stolen documents out of the dnc for the 2016 election. This is the person who was always on call when donald trump needs him to do the Dirty Business that donald trump wants done. Or, that roger stone has recommended. What we havent seen in any of these indictments, is placing the blame on anyone in the white house. Either donald trump or anyone else, for the actual inciting of the violence that took place. Certainly, roger stone was on the scene dealing with the people who actually did the violence, and i guarantee you if we had a way to get every single conversation roger stone had with Donald Trump On January 5th and january 6th, they would both be indicted for inciting the violence in a nanosecond. The problem is, the didnt always get that evidence. They were communicating through encrypted means. But, like i said before, there are some witnesses out there that we have not heard from that may ultimately put the nail in that coffin. I mean, we cant guarantee if we had it, but it would probably put them in more trouble. And i do see your point, because of donald trump is king joffrey, then clearly roger stone is his little finger, right . He does all the work, he does the behind the scenes things that people dont want to get their hands messy with. Emily, here is a sound bite on stones communication with extremist groups. I want to play this and get your thoughts on the other side, how that plays out and the rest of the violence that was associated with this plot that we have him on tape talking about. Stone communicated with both the proud boys and the oath keepers, regularly. The committee obtained encrypted content from a group chat called Friends Of Stone. Fos. It focused on various Pro Trump Events on november and december of 2020, as well as january 6th. Emily, i am in lots of group chats. This court, signal. They dont usually have to be encrypted because we are not discussing anything that is potentially illegal. When we hear that all of this communication was encrypted, some of what the January 6th Committee got, from a legal standpoint, is that something that is somewhat damning . If you are putting across so much effort to keep your communications private, if you are putting across so much effort to keep these conversations secret from the public, possibly secret from any other elected officials, is that the kind of thing, legally, that shows intent that may play out in future investigations, or possibly indictments of roger stone . Well, first of all, i want to be in the friends of jason group chat. Second of all, it depends on the other context. Simply taking part in an encrypted chat, we would not want that to be enough to incriminate someone or them, because people have lots of reasons to want to keep their communications private. The thing about stone that is so tantalizing and i think that is why we keep circling back to this idea that his did day may come he is involved in all the organizing and thinking about january 6th. And now, about the fake elector plot. It is hard to imagine given what we know about him and the role he has been playing that there isnt more here. I am also really interested in nicks point about these witnesses and why the government might be withholding them. And also, i am curious as to those whether one of those unindicted coconspirators in the georgia indictment there are so many of them, there 30 of them one of them be roger stone . Now that fanny willis knows about this tape, which he see that as enough to add him . It really does depend on what other evidence the prosecutors have. We know some of it from congress from the January 6th Investigations, but we dont know exactly the extent of what georgia and the federal government have. Nick ackerman, thank you so much for starting off the show with us today. Emily, please stick around. I am coming back to you shortly, as i will be getting into another tantalizing clue about the stone video and the elector plot. Later, a former Top Republican in the doj speaks out about trumps criminal exposure. And threats from Trump Supporters to grand jurors. Back in 60 seconds. This is Jason Johnson on the beat. An meet the team. Behind the team. The coach. The manager. And the snack dad. All using chase to keep up with their finances. The coach helps save goals here, because she saved for soccer camp there. Anddd check this out. The manager deposited a check. Magic. And the snack dad . Hes getting paid back. Orange slicesss. Because this team all has chase. Smart bankers. Convenient tools. One bank with the power of both. Chase. Make more of whats yours. Back with more on our exclusive roger stone video, because there is another angle i want us to get to. Again, here is stone talking about the elector scheme as early as november 5th, 2020. Any legislative body made decide on the basis of overwhelming evidence of fraud, to send electors to the Electoral College who accurately reflect the president s legitimate victory in their state, which was illegally denied him through fraud. Msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin points out this day, november 5th, is the very same date that pro trump lawyer, lida mitchell, email john eastman saying, what would you think of producing a legal memo outlining the constitutional role of State Legislatures in designating electors . Four days later on november 9th, eastman is circulating a memo titled, the Constitutional Authority of State Legislators to choose electors. One more thing. It was mark meadows who recruited that lawyer i mentioned into the efforts to overturn the election. In the same timeframe, early november, meadows was texting with gop lawmakers and don junior about the electors part, including text about the scene as early as november 4th, a day before the stone video. By november, meadows is telling someone he had a team on it and now is lisa rubin, msnbc legal analyst, and emily sassine, New York Times legal writer. Lisa, this is the thing. I dont have to be Rudy Giuliani to know a legal case. I dont have a legal expert to know a large fema conspiracy. The fact that we now have this larger stone video, and it lines up with other peoples this plot, do you think there is any chance that it just stops with those people because my guess is this is, he knows how many people were involved with this call, this game of telephone before it got to clean the children before it got to. Other people who might be flushed out of the bushes because of this video . Absolutely. We can even see the city that jason, in the January 6th Investigations at the house. I found that email that you showed a few minutes ago in the january 6ths public files. That is where you also can see rick perry, of all people, texting with meadows on the floor, the same thing, and on the same day, november 5th, you see a right how speech writer, who came to the committees attention, because he worked under stephen, was part of as being the president to stop the steel speech and his speech on the rally on january 6th, he has that idea, too, and he flushes them out in a series of his own emails to an employee of the office of president ial personnel. Its a coincidence that all of these people are coming up with this independent state Legislature Doctrine light theory as early as november 4th and fifth . Probably not. You know, we dont have the complete roster of who was on the Friends Of Stone tax list, but my guess is that Friends Of Stone and friends of Friends Of Stone start circulating at percolating this theory around that time and it moves outward from there. You know, i am a College Professor at morgan state, and if i saw a whole bunch of kids turning in a very similar people at the same time, i might start tracing back emails and say, who did this originate with . Im pretty sure you didnt come up with this idea on your own. Emily, one of the other things that i would like the fact that we are hearing about these other people, Cleta Mitchell it seems i dont know, sort of like a moderate day. Meyer, a crackpot lawyer that team trump surrounded either orbit. He, at one point, had her on an Election Committee the federal government, cost or sorts of problems and issues. When you have a person like this involved in the and pots, what are the steps to bring them in . Would they be disbarred, similar to Rudy Giuliani . Is this the person who might get criminal charges against her . Or is this someone you would flip in order to catch a larger fish like roger stone, or bring additional charges against trump . You know, the people who are lawyers who could be disciplined by the bar for taking part in these schemes, that is something people should be concerned about. I am not sure that mitchell rises to that level, but certainly, that has been true for some of the other lawyers involved, and that is something the profession can do to protect itself. She also could be someone who the georgia prosecutors or the Justice Department is talking to in terms of what she knows, particularly since she was obviously in direct contact with eastman who we know has already been indicted and i think we are just reminding ourselves what we are talking about. They were talking about the idea that we all go vote, Somebody Wins in state and that winner gets the Electoral College votes. Oh, no, wait a second, we are going to have the State Legislator make some decision that there was fraud and they will pick the winner instead. That is just not how american democracy works. It is just a very serious overturning of the will of the people that they were discussing her. And it is also very telling because again, the timeline is, you are saying this before it was announced. You are anticipating this is a person who is saying, i lost the game because the field is bad. Well, you arent even playing yet, the game hasnt been called. Well, your intent is to make sure it means your way regardless of what actually happened. Lisa, i want to play you some sound from Cassidy Hutchinson testifying about what trump said in this case, and get your thoughts on the other side. Is it your understanding that President Trump asked mark meadows to speak with roger stone and general food when on january 5th . That is correct, that is my understanding. Ms. Hutchinson, is it your understanding that mr. Meadows called mr. Stone on the fifth . I am under the impression that mr. Meadows did complete a call to both mr. Stone and general flynn the evening of the fifth. Now, we cant automatically say, lisa, that anybody who was on a phone call the day before the Terrorist Attack of january 6th is inherently guilty, but if you know roger stone was there and you know eastman was part of putting together this ridiculous pot, doesnt this also sort of draw additional lines about how many people were intimately involved . You cant say, i had no idea what was going to happen, if all of these people were involved in a series of phone calls, tags, and Everything Else like that right before the Terrorist Attack, right . Yeah. And jason, you may have read my mind because i was thinking about that moment of Cassidy Hutchinsons testimony, too, that mark meadows wanted to go over to the miller hotel, he wanted to sit in the war room. She persuaded him that probably wasnt the best course of action. And then, he relayed to her that the president had asked him to call roger stone. You know, the other thing that strikes me about this is the way the Fakie Lectors plot first starts isnt the way that it finishes. It starts with a bunch of people thinking that State Legislatures have to be involved. But of course, those State Legislatures resisted those treaties from the president. One of the charges in the georgia rico suit is against donald trump for soliciting the dense speaker of the georgia house, david ralston, to convene a Special Session to choose their own electors. David ralston said, thanks, but no thanks. But, the Fakie Lectors part doesnt die there, it continues, it goes into the sixth, and it is with the leadership of people like roger stone that it continues to persist up into, and through the sixth, itself. Lisa ruben and emily bazelon, thank you so much for joining us tonight on the beat. Coming up, new allegations of Death Threats against a judge in trumps trial. We will be right back on the beat to discuss. Ss. Voltaren. 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Com. I want to give you some context about what kind of legal world we are in right now. In 2015, there were 926 threats or statements of aggression against judges in the United States. By 2021, that number had jumped up to 4261. According to the u. S. Marshals service. That brings me to todays news. A texas woman is in custody and charged with threatening a federal judge overseeing trumps federal election charge crime. The woman followed the judge into the judges chambers, and left a voicemail in which she targeted the judge with racist epithets and said, you are in our sites. We want to kill you. If trumps doesnt get elected in 2024, we are coming to kill you, so tread lightly. Also allegedly adding, you will be targeted personally, publicly, your family, all of it. It is not just in texas. Abc news reporting on threats to the Georgia Grand Jurors who indicted trump. Trump supporters posting, the purported names and addresses of the members of the grand jury on a french website that often features violent rhetoric. One message saying the grand jurors have signed their death warrant. Nbc news is choosing not to name the website featuring the addresses to avoid further spreading the information. Now, the Fulton County Sheriffs Office is investigating these threats, but here is the larger context. Trump has been relentlessly disparaging jack smith, judge chuck can, and d. A. Funny willis. The georgia indictment cites the intimidation and threats that trump allies made to election workers. Joining me now to discuss all of this is katie fang, attorney and host of the katie fang show. Katie, i trust you are safe wherever you are right now this evening. Now, i have to say this, just from the perspective of the legal profession, what is it like . How can we go forward with Holding Elected Officials accountable in an environment where threats to their lives, of members of Law Enforcement, have become normalized by one large Political Group in this country . Where does that leave us . So, i think there is a practical mechanism, james, where we can up security, as has occurred with judge chukin, as had occurred for willis, as has occurred for special counsel jack smith and other members of Law Enforcement. But, i think we need to be very honest, jason, about the source of the problem. And what i mean by that is, donald trump. I mean, lets not mince words here. The thing we need to see is a curbing, a muslim, an inability for him to foment violence. We have seen what actually happens as january 6th occurred, when people feel emboldened, or they feel a call to action. Specifically in this incident, there is a big problem and im talking about the fulton grandeur at this moment there is a big problem about the idea of these grand jurors names being published in the end unsealed indictment. A lot of people were angry that there was nothing done in advance to not let that happen. But, georgia law airs on the side of transparency. This is where you see a collision, jason, between transparency and threats. When you see a collision between transparency and violence. I think what has happened is people become so emboldened that they think that their actions or, excuse me that their thoughts have become unfettered action. And so, as a lawyer, if i am a lawyer for somebody like donald trump, a client who is prone to intimidation and witness threats, my job is to stop him, and my job is not to impede on his First Amendment rights. I will be very clear. But, it doesnt work to his benefit, and it totally doesnt help the public. One last thing, jason. Back in 2020, United States federal court judge, esther salas, a person showed up at her home and her son was murdered in front of her, and her husband. He was there, the shooter was there to kill her. There was a federal law that was passed to protect members of the federal judiciary. It says that their addresses and personal information cannot be put online. I dont see enough of that. We need to see more action being taken to protect the members of Law Enforcement, the judiciary, and frankly, the grand jurors, in cases like this. And obviously, there is a moral obligation to do so. But, isnt there a legal obligation on the part of state officials, and legislators, to keep their citizens safe, in general . I think of ruby freeman and shay moss, if they had to leave their thrones, they couldnt really do anything. They had no problem sending the Georgia Bureau of investigations to tear through Voting Rights offices and suppress the vote. But, when it came to two election workers, they didnt do much of anything. From a legal standpoint, what are governors obligated to do in an instance where a citizens of their state is being threatened because of a larger investigation about steves workings and election workings . So, a governor, him or herself, doesnt have a legal duty to the members of his or her state. But, i think if we will be adaptive about this Law Enforcement as a duty to investigate but, here is where the threshold is here. If you have to go and investigate something, you usually do so when there is this idea that there is a reasonable fear of imminent harm. What i mean by that, if i were to threaten somebody in another state as we saw happen with this texas woman who threatened judge chutkan, and also representative jackson lee, all democrats in d. C. , and the lgbtq community. I mean, you want to maybe throw in some minorities in there, too. Why dont you . And if the Law Enforcement went to check this out, this phone call, this woman said, i dont plan on going to d. C. And i dont plan on going to houston. But, guess what . If representatively comes to alvin, texas, then, you need to worry. Which is just stupid, to admit that. But this idea that you have to have the imminent harm, i have to have the ability to harm you, that is where the legal reshold stops. That is where the problem is, a lot of people like to hide behind First Amendment rights, a lot of people like to hide behind, i am just expressing my opinion on social media, et cetera, but we have seen real consequences to it, jason. I think the entire Political Climate is a Tinderbox Waiting to explode, and i think pouring kerosene on the congregation makes it even worse, and i think there do has to be something done, again, by the judiciary, when it comes to people like donald trump. He cannot go around threatening members of the judiciary, and members of Law Enforcement and our grand jurors and think that there would be a consequence. And it is not just him, it will be the trickledown effect. I think Law Enforcement has to be proactive to be able to do this. Katie fang, thank you so much for joining us tonight on the beat. Remember to catch katies show weekends at 8 00 a. M. Here on msnbc. Coming up, a former high ranking doj official speaks out on trumps criminal exposure in georgia. This is Jason Johnson sitting in on the beat. Claimant i needed all the help i could get. I saw the commercials for prevagen. I started taking it. And it helped i noticed my memory was better. There was definite improvement. Ive been taking prevagen for a little over five years. Prevagen. At stores everywhere without a prescription. I have moderate to severe crohns disease. Ive been taking prevagen for a little over five years. Now, theres skyrizi. 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In this case, move this state trial to federal court. His lawyers have openly said that is something they are going to try. I know your side would like to move it out of state court, into federal court. Absolutely per because then you can say, look, this is stuff that happened when he was president , are you going to try it again . Absolutely. Anybody who can say an election issue is not a federal issue, that is ridiculous. Trumps now indicted former chief of staff, mark meadows, has already filed to move his trial, seeking terms more favorable to the defendant. The top trump ally, Rudy Giuliani, says he will do the same. But, some legal experts say this is a bad idea and that brings me to my next guest, donald ayer is a former Deputy Attorney general under george h. W. Bush. He is out with a new article in the atlantic, arguing against trumps efforts to move their trials. Thank you very much for joining me these evening. I wrote your book, i thought it was fascinating. We should really read this in the atlantic. Now, give us your basic thesis, why is it a bad idea . Why must every legal, political, journalistic person possible who has a voice in this conversation, stand up and say, we cant let donald trump move this venue from a state trial to a federal trial . Well, thank you, jason, for having me. The issue, really, is whether the statute that allows removal from a state court to a federal court in a criminal case, whether that, in fact, allows removal on a case like this. The statute basically provides that such a case is removable, with regard to any act by an officer of the United States, under color of that office. But, the supreme court, more than 40 years ago, definitively interpreted the statute to essentially limit the power of removal by also requiring that the defendant have what they call a colorful, federal law defense to the charges. So, it isnt enough, first of all, that someone was a federal official at the time. They have to have been acting in the course of their job. And that, i think, wasnt true here. But even more clearly what wasnt true, was there was a call girl, federal defense. We can talk about what defenses they may want to try to say our federal law defenses, but the bottom line is when you look at them they dont meet the test. So, donald, this is what is interesting. I was reading about this sort of strategy. For all practical purposes, trumps people would basically be saying, when we were trying to overturn the election illegally, we were doing it as president , that is federal, so we should move to a federal case because then we might get 1 of 4 federal judges that trump appointed, they might get a different venue in the northern georgia district, which you might have a more friendly jury. I mean, isnt the argument essentially, i did it, i just want to get trump in front of people that like me more . I think that may be, in fact, his strategy. But, i think the important thing is, the Removal Statute was passed like a number of statutes we are running into these days, back after the civil war. And it was done, essentially in fact, it was actually passed before the civil war it was passed in order to protect the functioning of federal powers in the south, in order to protect former slaves, among other things. Donald trump is basically trying to use this Removal Statute as a vehicle to defend his practice of trying to overturn our elections. So, someone says a great irony, we point that out in the article. But, i think at the end of the day, the real point is, you dont get to go to federal court and flaunt the state criminal process just because you are a federal official and you would like to. You have to meet the statutory test. He doesnt meet it and he will have to come up with a federal offense that is going to meet that test. And i think there is no way we talk about in article about winning by trial, and i think likely, he will fail. Look, d. A. Willis has said, welcome to atlanta, to trump and all of his coconspirators. I think if you broke georgia law, he should be prosecuted in georgia. Daniel, thank you so much for joining us on the beat. Coming up, major protests erupting in florida over a key flashpoint. I will tell you what it has to do with ron desantis, and lauren hill from the 50s. It is Jason Johnson sitting in on the beat. Thats gross its nothing, really. Its contagious. You can even spread it to other people. Mom, come here dont worry about it. Itll go away on its own no, it wont go away on its own. Its an infection. You need a prescription. Nail fungus is a contagious infection. At the first signs, show it to your doctor. And ask if jublia is right for you. Jublia is a Prescription Medicine used to treat toenail fungus. 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Lauren hill from the fujis, and her song, the best education of lauren hill, was meant as a tail and a warning, relevant to governors like Sarah Huckabee sanders and ron desantis. Her point, if we do not educate her ourselves, our next generation, the fire and passion for education will be snuffed out, which is the obvious goal in a state like arkansas, after the state Department Of Education suddenly removed ap African American studies from the curriculum, misrepresenting it as indoctrination. Just two days before the school year is supposed to start. This comes after the republican governor, Sarah Huckabee sanders, signed a law limiting how history is taught in schools. It is all part of a concerted effort by republicans to snuff out the passions of a new generation of americans by for which requires teachers to instruct students that some enslaved people, quote, develop skills which in some instances could be applied for their personal benefit. Florida is also the first state to allow Teaching Materials from the far right Nonprofit Group prager university, and public schools. And one video on animated Frederick Douglass describes slavery as a compromise. The Southern Colonies were dependent on slave labor and they wouldnt have joined a union that had banned it. Are you okay with that . Im certainly not okay with slavery, but the Founding Fathers made a compromise to achieve something great, the making of the United States. This is man who wrote a book about getting into a fist fight with his overseer, probably sure thats not how he talked. These policies are not about education. Theyre a naked attempt to create a docile and passive generation incapable of pushing for change because they dont know our nations actual history. Joining me now to discuss this is chris jones who ran against Sarah Huckabee sanders for governor of new york. Thank you for joining me tonight on the beat. I have to say this because i want people to understand, were not just talking to a political candidate. You have a ph. D. In neuroscience from m. I. T. , youre a pastor, a teacher. Im not going to shout out your undergraduate institution. We all know that place. As an educator in your state, as an educator in your state, how dangerous is it when you see governor Huckabee Sanders and the Legislature Say you cant take a. P. African american studies, and you cant teach the actual history of the state . What does it do to students in the classroom . Well, jason, great to be on the show, and to put it bluntly, its a shame. I have spent decades in k12 education and higher education. And to think that the students are starting the school year expecting to come into an environment where they can learn and learn how to learn, but instead getting a lesson on injustice and discrimination. You know, and it really just speaks to the fact that governor sanders is just a governor reboot, and theyre actively trying to unravel the lessons that actually make us great. Im a seventh generation arkansan. Im a descendant of enslaved people. When i learned about the history they went through and the struggles they overcame and the contributions they made to this country, it made me love the country more. But we have a governor who says its okay to learn about the enslavers but its not okay to learn about history through the perspective of the enslaved. Thats just bad. And chris, this is the other part that i think is important. The sort of myth out there that, well, if you teach these things, white kids are going to come home from School Feeling bad about themselves. Every single study about history has shown when children, in particular white children, learn about the actual history of the United States, the result is they have more empathy for their neighbors. They have more empathy for other people. It doesnt result in them coming home saying i hate myself because im white. I want to play some sound from governor Huckabee Sanders and get your thoughts on the other side. She tried to justify this racist policy. We cannot perpetuate a lie to our students and push this Propaganda Leftist Agenda Teaching our kids to hate america and hate one another. Its one of the reasons that we put into law banning things like indoctrination and crt. You know, the miseducation of lauryn hill, the album is named after the miseducation of the negro, 1933, and he talks about this idea that education that doesnt teach people about their history will result in a docile, nonactive, nonengaged population. Do you see that happening in arkansas, if Huckabee Sanders is successful in making this statewide policy where kids dont learn about what happened in their own hometowns . Look, thats the end game. The end game is to create a society that is docile, folks that will not push back. This administration is a unique combination of ignorance, malice, grift, and laziness. I have never seen a combination like that before. And it all comes together in a way to try to suppress people. And this is not disconnected from her signing a law that says 13yearolds can work in factories and dont need their parents permission to do so. These child labor laws, its part of a larger scheme of putting A Billion Dollars towards the expansion of prisons. Its all connected because theyre trying to create an environment that really continues to oppress us. But i will say shes being surprised by the pushback. You look at the schools where they called on the day, two days before school was going to start, and they said were not paying for a. P. African american studies. These schools said, oh, no, no, were still going to offer this course. And were going to pay for it. So her own alma mater said not going to work, were going to make sure these students actually learn what theyre supposed to learn. Thats the sort of pushback that she is being surprised by, and i think youll continue to see. Chris jones. Thank you show much for fighting the good fight in arkansas. This is Jason Johnson, ill be right back after this break. Ess, i get 5g, truly unlimited data, and unlimited hotspot data. So, no matter what, im running this kitchen. vo make the switch. Its your business. Its your verizon. Meet the future. A chef. A designer. And, ooh, an engineer. All learning to save and spend their money with chase. The chefs cooking up firsts with her new debit card. Hungry . Uhuh. The designers eyeing sequins. Uh no plaid. While mom is eyeing his spending. Nice. And the engineer . Shes taking control with her own account for college. Three futures, all with chase. Freedom for kids. Control for parents. One bank for both. Chase. Make more of whats yours. 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The joy of movement. josh allen is this your plan to watch the game today . hero fan i have to watch my neighbors Nfl Sunday Ticket. Voltaren. The joy of movement. josh allen its not your best plan. But you know what is . Myplan from verizon. vo for a limited time get Nfl Sunday Ticket from youtubetv on us. A 449 value. Plus, get a free Samsung Galaxy z flip5. Only on verizon. Before we go, one quick reminder. You can listen to my podcast, a word with Jason Johnson, every week wherever you get your podcasts. Tomorrow, my new episode with ensay ufa is dropping. We get into the impact of Voter Suprovision in georgia. Its not just about breaking law. Its also about breaking the spirit of the people in the state. The reidout with joy reid is up next. Tonight on the reidout, april 2026, that is the date that Donald Trumps Team Proposed his federal trial begin in the election interference case. I did say 2026, right . That is not a typo. Thats the real date he set. Fun. Plus, the latest in a series of horrifying postroe realities as a 13yearold rape victim, a rape survivor, i should say, is forced to give birth in the state where