Transcripts For MSNBCW Deadline 20240704

Racketeering indictment. The Clock Ticking before they turn themselves in to the Fulton County jail next friday, with Pressure Mounting for some or all of trumps 18 codefendants to cooperate, you might think trump would be bending over backwards to ingratiate himself with them, keeping them from freaking out and flipping. Doesnt look like it. Not so much. Take Rudy Giuliani, facing 13 charges in Fulton County. Cnn today reports that giuliani made a hail mary pilgrimage to maralago in april in what is described as a mission to make a personal and desperate appeal to former President Donald Trump to pay his legal bills. By going inperson a source familiar with the matter told cnn giuliani and his lawyer believed they could explain facetoface why trump needed to assist his former attorney with his ballooning legal bills. According to reporting trump verbally agreed to help with some of giulianis legal bills without committing to any specific amount or timeline. Nbc news has not independently confirmed the cnn report. Be clear. Not exactly shocking rudy came away emptyhanded. Trump is notoriously cheap. Then jenna ellis. Another former trump lawyer facing two criminal charges at Fulton County. She, too, left high and dry, forced to crowd fund to cover legal expenses. Then perennially roger stone. Could have explaining to do and soon. Although State Officials in al 50 states must ultimately certify the results of the voting in their state, the final decision is a decision made solely by the legislature. Any legislative body may decide on the basis of overwhelming evidence of fraud to send electors to the Electoral College who actually reflect the president s legitimate victory. So you heard, that was roger stone laying out a game plan for the fake elector plot. It happens november 5th, 2020. Two days before the president ial contest was even called for president elect joe biden. It is a veritable clown guard of cronies and others criminal charges an prosecution and that doesnt even include trumps codefendants in the classified documents case. Valet walt nauta and property manager Carlos De Oliveira who pleaded guilty earlier in the week. The a crush of revelations coming to light. One of the many, many people in this pileup of criminal defendants, you might want to take a lesson from someone whos been there before. Someone who was once the tip of a spear when it came to defending donald trump and paid the ultimate price. Im obviously very loyal and very dedicated to mr. Trump. I think hes going to be not just a good president. I think hes going to be a great president. Hes going to be the president that ends up working with everybody. Whether republican or democrat, including those democrats that are choosing not to come, and truth is, he doesnt care. All that mr. Trump has done is he has added to the existing group of winners that he has hired for the campaign. I think hes a wonderful man. I think hes going to be an amazing president. Michael cohen was an effective spokesperson. Allin on trump. You know the rest of it, though, until he wasnt. Until he couldnt be. Nobody knows better than Michael Cohen of the consequences for walking the walk when it comes to trump. His advice for Rudy Giuliani. I wouldnt hold my breath. He didnt pay you for your previous services. You have a better chance to raise the money from your exwives. Joining us now, former personal attorney to donald trump Michael Cohen, host of a Podcast Author of revenge ow donald trump weaponize u. S. Department of justice against his critics. Michael cohen, storying taken individually are riveting but i needed to talk to you about the portrait coming into focus because the you know what is getting real. Real charges, real prosecutions and real jail time on the line. Something that you know all too well. It is in many instances the natural sort of throughline of service to donald trump. Yeah. Well, only you, nicolle, were get me on the first vacation im having with my family in five years. Only you can get me and its six hours ahead from you, to miss dinner with my family on vaca. Because this is important. Watching videos of me i want to smack myself in the head. I truly thought he was going to become a great president and a president of all americans. Unfortunately i was wrong. Yeah, incredibly effective spokesperson for him, because i did truly believe that he wanted to do right by america, and not to create an autocracy what he ultimately decided when winning in 2016. Becoming real for the rest of these 18 individuals, let me tell you to each and every one of them, saying it literally since my House Oversight Committee Hearing when i said it to mark meadows, or to jim jordan, i said to all of them. I know what hes capable of. I know what has happened to me, and rest assured, whats happened to me will happen to you, if you dont smarten up. You know, i didnt show those clips to embarrass you or make you cringe. I showed them because i think that Rudy Giuliani or roger stone think theyre different and theyre not different. The the right . Nicolle, not only not different. Let me be very clear about something. I had a decadeplus relationship with donald trump, and we saw that the om way for me to collect the monies that was owed in legal fees was to sue him, which took four years. Continue to does not have a longstanding friendship or relationship with rudy colludey. In fact, even less of that relationship with roger stone, who he never thought much of in the first place. Yet they are all appeasing and they are all playing to a party of one. For what reason, i dont know. Let me be also very clear about something. I read the fani willis indictment. It reads like a book. It reads like a really good book that lays out facts and lays out circumstances and Documentary Evidence and testimony, all to get to one ultimate conclusion, and the ultimate conclusion here, nicolle, is a guilty conviction. Michael, lets take some of these defendants and, indicted and charged individuals, separately, and talk about them separately. I think about walt nauta and Carlos De Oliveira. I dont know anything about their personal lives but i think about their families and i think about, now this case went from the Military Service to be a personal valet to donald trump. Im sure thought a great opportunity. Now faces serious criminal prosecution. Carlos de oliveira, again i dont know anything about him personally, if he has a family, but, he, too, probably thought he had a neat job doing i. T. At the private club of an ex president and now face mountains of legal bills, excruciating stress on themselves and their families. Can you tell us a little what you know from your own experience theyre going through personally and financially . Well, i can tell you that it is like having an anvil falling out of the sky like we used to see on the road runner. This anvil is dropping out of the sky landing straight on top of their head. It is a neverending financial obligation, the stress and the pain that it causes one and their family. Especially the family. Theres really no way to describe it. Remember, i had this all happening to me over a very short period of time. Theirs is significantly longer. Especially because they made the mistake and pled not guilty at the arraignment. Its not going to be easy on any of them, and, in fact, each and every day that goes by it becomes more and more difficult, because the extraneous circumstances that come into play. Banks walk away from you. You know. Friends walk away from you. You know, loss of your Business Opportunities walk away from you. I dont see how donald could continue to have them around. You know, i can assure you, like what i wrote about giuliani, hes not going to pay any of those legal fees, and hes going use a line of nonsense. Something to the extent of, well, if i pay your legal fees, theres going to be this presumption or this appearance that im obstructing justice, or its Witness Tampering and i cant i cant have that right now. Especially being a codefendant in this case. And so i cant make these legal payments for you. Well, that adds a mountain of pressure on top of you. Trust me, i know this because donald did that to me. Right in the dead center of when illegal was needed the most. So when i say that donald doesnt care about anyone or anything, he doesnt care about rudy. He doesnt care about roger stone. He certainly doesnt care about walt nauta or de oliveira. He doesnt care about any of them. Its funny, too. Youre right. The reason he gives, look like obstruction of Witness Tampering known as monday if youre donald trump. Something he does all day every day, but he could manufacture this excuse. People close to rudy describe him exactly as you described. Let me read this to you from the cnn report. Giulianis trip to maralago indicates level of Financial Stress that hes been facing for months as his legal trucks continued to pile up, but what surprised those in trumps inner circle the former president s unwillingness to pay giulianis bill given he could find himself under Intention Pressure to cooperate. Its not a smart idea for trump to refuse to pay giulianis legal fees, according to one person close to the situation, famously deteriorated investigated by special counsel robert mueller. Do you think if trump wasnt president , you find enough evidence culminating in sentencing memo. There is a real parallel and trump is no longer protected by a doj policy saying he cant be indicted. What is the real legal peril facing trump . Well, look. As i stated, donald trump was individual number one. I certainly was not the one who had the affair with stormy daniels. I certainly didnt have a relationship, in fact, i wasnt eastern the one that made the payment to mcdougal. David picker and ami. Whats the peril to donald trump . Like i said before, none of these indictments, if you read them, leave any doubt, and in it should be anyones mind, that donald trump will be held accountable for the allegations that are raised by either jack smith, by alvin bragg, by fani willis. I mean, its very Crystal Clear when you read these indictments exactly what was done. Its all backed up. Again, with Documentary Evidence and testimony, and that why i dont understand why rudy thinks that hes going to be different. Roger stone has already seen the troubles that, know, the relationship with donald has brought. He was just fortunate that donald was able to pardon him. Otherwise, he probably still would be sitting, you know, behind bars. So why any of them are staying foolishly loyal to a man that doesnt understand the term, i dont understand it myself. I called it the Head Scratcher because it makes no sense at all i want to share with our viewers, which sometimes includes people on the trump side of the ideological question, where trump is getting his money for his only Legal Defense. This is an account from the New York Times. New Financial Report shows the former president s various political committees and superpac backing him have used roughly 30 cents of every dollar spent so far this year on legalrelated costs. The total amounts to more than 27 million in legal fees and other investigationrelated bills First Six Months of 2023 according to federal records. The new disclosure revealed remarkable degree to which trumps cash are intermingled much like his police fate. After leezing the 2020 election a person close to donald trump who knew bill stepien and why he stepped away. There was no there, there to the claims of vote fraud said donald is going to try to raise money for his Legal Defense fund. This person didnt see more, insurrection in the works, probably should have. The fact its all agrist is a remarkable fact. Not disputed. A clear fact that this is the Trump Campaigns only filings, what the Financial Disclosure comes from. Disclosures that the Trump Campaigns makes. Hes gripping from supporters to pay higs legal bills and not sharing with other codefendants. To your point, its a Head Scratcher, doesnt that make them look like rubes and idiots . Well, yeah. I mean, its a rhetorical question, i suspect, but worse than that is that he is still the leading republican candidate for the upcoming president ial election. That, to me, is the real Head Scratcher. You know, anybody would turn around and say if a former president who wants to be president again is being indicted, that would, or should be, a disqualifying factor. But were not talking about one. Were not talking about two. Were not talking about three. Were not even really talking about four, nicolle. Its five if you count the superseding indictment. So start thinking to yourself, and theyll be a sixth with the second jack smith case. You say to yourself, are these people really that gullible . Are they really that stupid to follow this man into the Dumpster Fire of the cult of donald j. Trump . Why . What do they get out of it . The answer is, they get absolutely nothing. And everybody else thats in that inner circle, these 18 other codefendants, the only thing that theyre going to get is a lot of pain and a lot of legal bills. And thats it. So to Carlos De Oliveira and 18 other charged individuals in Fulton County, accused of crimes that could, this is down the line, but if they go to trial, if theyre convicted and found guilty they could go to jail. You talked about the demp stur fire. I think from talking to you jail sounds worse than a Dumpster Fire. What is it like to go to jail for doing what donald trump told you to do . Its very difficult, putting your head down on the pillow to go to sleep each night and to waking up and staring at cinder block walls. You know, obviously being directed, being away from your family is the single hardest thing in the, you know, in the world. Especially for myself. I can tell you, they dont want it, and only a fool would want to give up their freedom, to give up their families, their happiness. Their own happiness. Their livelihood. You give up everything. Again, for who . For what . For a guy who wants to destroy the constitution . Who truly believes he has the ability let alone the intellect to do it, we all know he doesnt, but to rewrite the constitution . I mean, this everliving document that was created, you know, by, clearly, some of the smartest people ever to walk this planet. Not a guy whos going to use, like bigley and hugely and, you know you know, all of these other wonderful adjectives that he uses in his speeches. Donald trump literally wants to rewrite the constitution, but to rewrite it, in a way that only benefits himself. And why any american would want to see Something Like this happen. Again, it just becomes Head Scratcher number two. I dont understand what theyre doing. I dont understand what theyre thinking. Well if you dont get it, makes us feel better around here. I know you are on vacation with your family. What is it, demi lovato lyrics, sorry, not sorry. We really needed to talk and glad we bothered you and hope youre able to say goodbye to us and enjoy family time. Michael cohen, thank you very much for spending time with us. Great to see you, nicolle. When we come back, the walking, talking, living, breathing, legal liability that is donald j. Trump. No surprise that his team is, based on his accounts, very, very worried about his Planned Public Press Conference to refute his georgia indictment, and what he calls refutable Election Fraud. Plus, Turning Hi Mandatory Courthouse appearance a disfraction next weeks republican debate. Will it work . A debate he may still show up to . We dont know. Later in the show, what we feared from trumps dangerous rhetoric from one of the judges over seeing one of his cases may have just led to a real threat of her life. All this after a quick break. Dont go anywhere today. Thats why Herbal Essences is packed with naturally derived Plant Ingredients you love, and none of the stuff you dont. Our sulfatefree collections smell incredible. And leave your Hair Touchably soft and smooth. 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You really went all out didnt you . Um, its called commitment. Could you turn down the volume . Here, you can try. Get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. What is life like . For a donald trump lawyer. One hand business booming. Indictments, civil lawsuits and cash, you would think, if he pays any of them. Moving around to support a little economy . I mean, on the other hand your client donald trump is a nightmare. A man who cant steam to help himself. A walking, talking, living, breathing, legal liability to his own self. All he has to do at this point is keep his mouth shut. Keep his comments to himself. Say, sorry, im not oing to talk about it like everyone else in america but he cant even do that. You understand why new reporting today makes complete and total sense. Havent seen it yet, after trump was indicted in georgia he announced hed be holding a Press Conference next week in order to deliver a large Con Plex Detailaled irrefutable report in georgia. Programming note, there was none. Why trump waited until after his dozens of court cases, after an impeachment, after two related indictments to reveal such proof existed, again has to do with no evidence. You dont have to watch or try hard to imagine how that makes his lawyers feel as well. Abc news citing multiple sources farm with the matter, legal adviors say it will complicate his legal problems and some advised him to cancel it. Sound like they dont know who theyre working with. Joining our conversation, former florida congressman and former u. S. Attorney, at the table. Top state Department Official during the obama administration, and david jolly, this story could be cut and pasted into any news cycle in any year going back to the Trump University stuff that played out before he was ever elected president. Trump is in trouble, because trump is shady and corrupt and breaks laws. Trump doesnt listen to legal advises. Trump skirts by. Not enough culpability to go around, right . Hasnt been held to account. Well see if that finally happens this time, but this idea of him, it happened i think most spectacularly in the carroll case, liable for sexual abuse and defamation and 12 hours later goes and gets himself in more trouble now faces more litigation. Do you see that happening in this instance as well . Oh, absolutely. Within the court of law. Just not within Donald Trumps only mind and outlook on life. Three Different Things come to mind when i hear donald trump preparing to do this. One, truly delusional. Perhaps just truly delusional thinking he won the election and trying to convince the American People. Going around the country saying so. If he believes it, if so, hes delusional and maybe leaning into fictitious Free Speech Defense . Right . Somehow he can say whatever he wants because thats free speech even though thats legally perilous and completely ignorant argument. Third, misbehavior, fully intending to litigate this before the American People looking for political absolution of his criminality knowing whatevers happens in the court is somehow outside of his control and whatever round of attorneys hes on but he is taking all of his chips putting them on the table for a november election saying if i can convince the American People that im right and being wronged they will give me the absolution im begging for. Press you on the political piece. I think well hear a lot about that. Hes not delusional from public testimony this closest white house aides after 1 6. Cassidy hutchinson testified cant let anyone know we lost. How will he pull that off . What the coup was designed to do. Shield the fact he lost. Also i cant believe i lost to this guy. We know he knew he lost. Knows he lost. But to your point about political cover. This is the kamikaze move. The big lie is a political loser in general elections why there is no senator mastriano. Where do you think the legal advice and political advice are both off the rails for him . Donald trump doesnt listen to anybodys advice except his own. Fair. Keeps his own counsel and i think his own shot. Look at the current indictments, likelihood of a conviction is pretty strong for the former president , and so he believes that the best shot will be the political absolution. Thinking this weekend, its going to set up something very tough. Ive suggested, many others have, an existential nature to the question our country faces next november and i dont know if were prepared for it yet. It is easy for democrats and the joe biden camp to focus on results. To say were growing the economy. Providing ladders of opportunity in health care and others things. Perfect contrast to criminal allegations against donald trump. At some point we might need to see the message we saw from joe biden in annapolis. If donald trump is republican nominee suggesting if you elect me i will absolve myself of my criminality and seek revenge and retribution, democracy then is really on the line, and that puts democrats and joe biden in the most historic position perhaps any candidate certainly any incumbent president has ever been. Frame a question for the American People about future of the country and existence of our democracy. This is what were headed towards as a nation. I want to say youve tickled the thing that keeps me up as night. Donald trump, david jolly, is running, asking the American People to be human shields. Thats his message. Protect me. Shield me. Protect me from all the bad things ive done. Joe biden actually is running to shield americans from economic peril, from hunger, from inequality, from National Security threats. Shield ukraine from russia. I mean, the contrast has to get you in the gut with a very blunt and brutal message. Donald trump doesnt care about Michael Cohen went to jail. The reason thats news is because if his personal lawyer was sacrificial to trump, wouldnt you think his supporters like Stephen Heirs Airors marched to the capitol. Running to be president because he wants the American People to shield him from criminal exposure and liability. If joe biden wins the election asking allow me one person to serve for benefit of the entire country. If donald trump is elected president , protect himself and make the rest of the country victims including those who support, elevate, vote him into office. Whether or not they see their regret the next day or ten years later, the nation will no longer be the same, if donald trump is elected to president again. You know, joyce, the reason this sort of gut conversation about the Legal Process is so important isnt because donald trump is making his criminal exposure the centerpiece of his election. Its because the American People are going to choose between someone who has committed crimes in so many jurisdictions that if he were anybody else with access to the ballot box theyd already be in jail with no right to vote. People who wouldnt have the right to vote are going to be choosing between someone who wants to be president because of all of those crimes. Thats his only rationale at this point. I am your retribution. Thats his 2024 message. Not running on maga. That was the 2016 meg. He is running as i am your retribution. That is haunting. It is. Incredibly disturbing, and heres what makes it worse. Not to pile on, nicolle, but this is plain for everyone to see. Folks know who donald trump is. They know what he stand for, and i am so tired of hearing people say, well, i dont like the man, but i like his policies. Because he has no policies to offer. He offers hatred, an antiamerican vision and at bottom offers racism. He offers fear of a more egalitarian country a more inclusive country, wants to keep us back in the 1950s, republicans even earlier time. Always so appropriate that many of the civil war era antiku Klux Klans Statues brought into play in an effort to rein him in. His voters no who he is, his vision and policies arent. Its now a Decision Point for the country. Do we want to go back or do we want to go forward . Didnt get rick in yet. A quick break. Promise come to you on the other side. Dont go anywhere. Well be right back. L be right. Moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. Despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. It disrupts my skin with rash. 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But you know what is . Myplan from verizon. vo for a limited time get Nfl Sunday Ticket from youtubetv on us. A 449 value. Plus, get a free Samsung Galaxy z flip5. Only on verizon. Were all back. Rick, put your Magazine Editor hat on. What nbc news Is Reporting Trump plans to do in terms of counterprogramming, i guess you call it. Could use, time his booking in georgia to coincide with next weeks first republican president ial primary debate. Put another way turning into an o. J. Simpson and the broncolevel spectacle. Same time Florida Governor ron desantis talking about lowering states pension assumptions. Know enough about ron desantis to talk about something else, a noun and verb and woke stuff, but what should we do if that is what trump decides to do . One of the things i found a little dismaying about reporting about this already is that if you look at trumps own vocabulary and language he said, you know, indisputable evidence. Major Press Conference. And i see some reporting even in wire services, you know, trump to hold a Major Press Conference on monday. Thats using his language. Thats not whats his names coffin . Right . Nothing inside. There is no irrefutable evidence. Theres nothing in there. Because he is the programmer. The carnival barker. Correct. What do we do . Ignore it . You dont cover it in realtime. You fact check it as he goes. I mean, its already been indisputably proven there rein Election Fraud in georgia. I dont know what hell come out with. There isnt anything. His lawyers have to be nervous about it. To your point, his trial is his campaign. Yes, using everybody as human shields, but the whole campaign will it be about his guilt or his innocence . And listening to david talk. I mean, one of the things i find a little dismaying is, when we even use traditional political language, like joe biden talks about gdp and ladders of opportunity. I mean, trump just throws crap all over that. Hes changed the whole vocabulary of campaigns. Im not even sure Traditional Campaign language work wis a lot of voters anymore and thats what trump wants and why his lawyers are interchangeable. Because law is a sham to him. Right. Right. I mean, and i think, i think the opportunity for joe biden isnt to abandon the language. I think that makes up the Building Blocks of his life in public service. Its to find the things that hes on the right side of. I mean a portion isnt a majority minority issue. Republicans know theyre on a super minority on abortion. Infrastructure bill. You know how popular . Because Mitch Mcconnell wanted to go with him on air force one. But it is about abandoning some of that language that sounds wonky, grabbing peoples emotions. Also might be that kind of return to normalcy. A guy using traditional language. Maybe a little oldfashioned but feels more dire to be, like, return to normal . Doesnt it feel like trump is running i dont like relative conversations. I believe trump is representing the greatest threat to American Democracy since 2014 as he does, i dont think one campaign is worse than the other. When you look ow animated he can get the right with messages being retribution feels like you know, returning to something old and tried feels risky. Well, heres the good news, and youve turned me into an optimist when i am not anywhere else. Your vision is stier. I have to come up with a good solution. Hes not going to get in one more vote that he doesnt have already. Correct. Hes going to lose votes. The mills of God Grind Slowly but grind exceedingly small. Hes in the legal system now. Look at all polls show, maybe he did something wrong for people who never conferred him. Hell be in and out of court. He cant extricate himself in way he used to, fool the legal system and turn it into kind of a buffoonish thing. He cant do that anymore and that will intercept with the campaign and i think people will get tired of it. My optimistic view. I i welcome optimism. David, do you buy that . I do. Look, i mean if youre joe biden and democrats turn out 54 of country available to you on election day and obviously calculus for the Electoral College. What message does that . A combination of what you discussed. Talking a policies, successes regarding the economy, safe, stable world, and lifting up all people. Perhaps the way to approach dangers donald trump is actually through a visionary, more Visionary Perspective of joe biden. That i will also be a candidate protecting the republic, protects voting rights, the Judicial Branch allowing us to achieve things together through the regular constitutional process. I will be that guy. A sense of normalcy youll have with me as we achieve these great things together do it within the constitutional construct that blessed us eb ov 200 years. Do that, convince enough American People i see here a visionary willing to protect the rule of law and achieve these things together, and in contrast, ive seen someone saying, please vote for me so i can absolve my own criminality. Use you to do so really is a remarkable contrast. David jally, thank you. Joyce will be back for a very important Conversation Top of the next hour. Rick sticks around with us. After the break, from an indicted guy appearing in home alone 2 to one way part in borat 2 what hes planning to do next, Rudy Giuliani. ella we get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. jen thats enterprise intelligence. vo its your vision, its your verizon. Okay everyone, our mission is complete balanced nutrition. Together we provide nutrients to support immune, muscle, bone, and heart health. Yaaay woo hoo ensure with 25 vitamins and minerals and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. I have Type 2 Diabetes, but i manage it well. 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A 449 value. Plus, get a free Samsung Galaxy z flip5. Only on verizon. Rudy giuliani today, headlines, expresident s exlawyer and could have been now Fulton County made a bit of news on his radio show today. Yes, he has a radio show. Some didnt know that. Somewhere in the middle of an unhinged confusing discombobulated rant about the 13 criminal counts against him giuliani plans to get his case moved from Fulton County to Federal Court. Giulianis defenses today, again, dont seem considering the serious charges including acting as trumps lawyer and calling what the indictment lays out and crimes and con seaspira. Simply an election claim. And coauthor of brookings, Fulton County, georgia, here with us. Pleasure to talk to you. Thank you for being here. Its my pleasure. Glad to be here. What do you think meadows, mark meadows, first to move to have his case moved to Federal Court. Rudy giuliani doesnt even seem to have a, you know, delusional argument in that he didnt have any role in the government. What do you think that the chances are that meadows and rudy will be successful in moving theyre cases to Federal Court . Well, i think at least in mr. Meadows case the case is already in front of a federal judge. Judge jones has indicated that he has scheduled a hearing. I believe for august 28th. The d. A. Willis has until the 23rd to provide her retort. So this type of action or strategy is only available to individuals who held an official federal position and was actually doing an act that is part of that role, or colorable part of their federal role, and so as the various defendants consider this option, seems to me they would have to present some sort of evidence. One, that they were actually an official. I think obviously in mr. Meadows case its much easier to establish. Im sure what type of evidence or even role mr. Giuliani may have had, but certainly he would have that opportunity to speak to that, if he decides to file a removal motion. I think, too, the District Attorney would have an opportunity to counter those arguments and most likely she may rely on the fact that the actions involved related to elections scarily within the bounds of the state and not part of any of the federal rules that an officer of the federal government might have. Gwen what is your sense . I mean, i think the country was familiar with so much of the evidence presented in this really stunning and dramatic indictment monday night. Theres something about watching the reaction from the accused. Theres no defense on the facts. There simply is an effort to destroy and decimate the system. Whats your sense to the danger of that as an approach . Well, first and foremost, anybody charged with a crime is innocent until proven guilty. Obviously, d. A. Willis knows that and the preparing to meet her case in court and i think one of the key things here is to remember that our Justice System is one of the important pillars of our democracy. Much like the right to vote. You see Attorney Willis defending both. Obviously, presenting her case in terms of her case in terms of defending the citizens and residents of Fulton County and their right to vote as well as ensuring theres integrity throughout this entire process. Theres some disturbing new reporting in the New York Times in the last halfhour about online threats to the grand jurors themselves. What does the state do . What does the District Attorneys office do to protect them . I think youre already seeing it. As i understand, the sheriff has already indicated that if anyone is receiving threats, to reach out to his office. All of these folks are still serving as grand jurors, and so i believe that theres still a special relationship, if you will, a special desire to protect ordinary residents who are volunteering their time, doing their civic duty. Our criminal Justice System would not work without these individuals. So i think youll see the sheriff, other Law Enforcement agencies as appropriate, as well as the d. A. s office really trying to ensure, use the resources to ensure the protection of these individuals. So it is disheartening that weve come to this. Just remarkable. Everything that has been ushered in. Thank you so much for spending time to talk to us today. We will continue to call on you. Thanks. Good to be with you. Rick and i will be back after a very short break. Dont go anywhere today. But you know what is . Myplan from verizon. vo for a limited time get Nfl Sunday Ticket from youtubetv on us. A 449 value. Plus, get a free Samsung Galaxy z flip5. Only on verizon. 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Ill tell you why it matters. This is from attorney general bill barr who did more to radicalize trumps base in terms of politicalization of the Justice Department. Hes trying to put some of the Toothpaste Back in the tube. He was on fox news moments ago talking about the strength of the twin investigations by special counsel jack smith. Watch. I think the federal cases are legitimate. At the end of the day, at the core of this thing, he engaged in the case of the documents, an outrageous behavior where anyone would be prosecuted. I dont know of any attorney general who could walk away from it. Hes not being prosecuted for having the documents. Hes bean prosecuted for obstruction. Two egregious incidents are alleged. I think thats a very simple case and that should be tried. If the judge is anywhere competent, that can be concluded before the summer. And the other case, after the election, in my opinion, he did cross the line. Wasnt just rough and tumble politics. He crossed the line. When did he cross it for you . I think the federal case is good, i mean, is responsible because it really focuses on the hub of the issue which is not just the lies and knowing they were lies, and thats what they allege, the fact that he used this device of unveiling imposter electors, swearing they were the electors. The key point is they were in tandem with a plan where by the Vice President would use that as a pretext for nullifying the legal and certified votes. So it was a calculated and deceitful plan by nullifying and negating certified legal votes. I want to be really clear, saying why this matters. In a radicalized political movement, some of the most prominent voices from the Justice Department inside that movement may help deradicalize those individuals. I think this is the farthest bill barr has ever gone in talking about the strength of jack smiths january 6th case. Yes. Hes well able to do that. Thats a slamdunk, hes saying. Any attorney general maybe hell get called for jury duty. He would probably get recused. That is a case that any attorney general would have to do and it is not just about keeping the documents. Its about obstructing justice. The interesting thing that he talks about, about the january 6th case, and the overlap with the georgia case. Its about the defrauding the electors. The electors is the whole case. That they were violating the electoral count act which is a federal law by creating these phony electors. The fact that he zeroed in on that is very important. To me it suggests that liz cheney loaned him some of her steel in her spine. Im glad to hear him make those comments today. But you never will know what impact it would have had if hed said that months and months ago, years ago now. At the time, yeah. Thank you for being here at the table with us. Its a pleasure. Theres much more to come on this extraordinary day of news on the threat made to one of the federal judges in the trump january 6th case. Congressman adam schiff will be here. Dont go anywhere today. Here dont go anywhere today. Safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when theyd arrive with a replacement we could trust. Thats service the way we want it. Singers safelite repair, safelite replace. josh allen is this your plan to watch the game today . hero fan i have to watch my neighbors Nfl Sunday Ticket. josh allen its not your best plan. But you know what is . Myplan from verizon. vo for a limited time get Nfl Sunday Ticket from youtubetv on us. A 449 value. Plus, get a free Samsung Galaxy z flip5. Only on verizon. ambience of room, birds, Scrolling Content on phone you tried. Limiting when it was okay. No tech behind closed doors. But social medias algorithms of addiction always won out. Its not your fault. Alone you cant stop it. Together, we will. We have a plan. 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Really the ideal judge has always been for me one who is openminded, fair and prepared, and that would be my philosophy, and that would be the Guiding Principles for me as a judge. Impartiality is bedrock. Listening to both sides, treating all people who come before me, be they individuals or corporations with respect and with dignity, and working very hard to review all the relevant materials, do my own research, be prepared so when i listen to the arguments of both sides, im aware of the relevant case law and the facts. Hi again, everybody. Its 5 00 in new york in a far away land and a faraway time, there is a unanimous vote for that woman confirming judge Tanya Chutkan to the u. S. District court for washington, d. C. She was appointed by president obama. She was confirmed with the u. S. Senate with a vote of 950. 0. Many republican senators including marco rubio, Mitch Mcconnell, ted cruz, lindsey graham, all of them, all of them voted to confirm her, to put her on the bench. A decade later, judge chutkan has been randomly assigned to be the judge presiding over the criminal case into Donald Trumps efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Shes now facing extraordinary threats. Extraordinary vitriol from the expresident s supporters including to her life. Yesterday a person was charged with threatening judge chutkan. An affidavit filed last week states that abigail jo left a threatening voicemail message. Were not going to play it. Were not going to amplify it of the threat itself but it is important to shine a light on the horrors that public servants, including judges, including now judge chutkan are facing. According to the affidavit, in the voice, the woman referred to judge chutkan using racial slurs and said you are in our sights. We want to kill you. If trump doesnt get elected in 2024, were threatening to kill you. So read the lightly. You will be targeted personally, publicly. The family, all of it. She also made a direct threat to kill Congressman Lee in texas, a democrat and the lgbtq community. She said she had no plans to carry out her threats but the threats against chutkan by donald trump and his supporters are deadly serious. Trump has disparaged her on his Social Media Platform numerous times, even calling for her reaccusal from the case. Watch. The former president s aunt, comments and attacks on the federal judiciary, and on the specific individual judges who will preside over his trials, are unprecedented in american history, anderson. They are a grave disservice to the nation. They are in excusable. And they imperil the former president s, himself, in the defense of his actions on january 6th before the juries that will hear his case. But this is, of course, a pattern that the former president has engaged in. Since at least the day he assumed office in 2016. An escalation in the direct threats against the federal judge overseeing one of trumps criminal cases is where we begin the hour with some of our favorite experts and friends. The former federal prosecutor and host of the podcast, our friend, Glenn Kirchner is here. Frank figliuzzi joins us. Joyce vance is back and here with me, vanity fair special correspondent, our friend. You have such rich experience on both sides of this question, protecting against these threats and understanding the damage they do. The collateral damage, the lives impacted. I want to start on that front with you, joyce vance. Yeah, so, its easy to look at these sorts of situations as an email or a phone call with nothing behind it. The federal judiciary has experienced losses. The state judiciary has come under attack. Atlanta, for instance, is no stranger to any of this where some of this behavior has happened. So when threats are made, they impact not just the judge who in a sense can be said to have signed up and understands the risk, but also, the judges family, also the courthouse family. When you have a federal judge like judge chutkan, federal judges are protected by the United States marshals service. Theres a deputy United States marshal in the d. C. Office who specializes in risk assessment. If you have to have roundtheclock protection for a judge, that often involves bringing in personnel from other districts. It impacts the functioning of the entire agency. So this is no small thing in a systemic sense. There is also a very real personal cost for the people who go through it and something that i think we should focus on. Something that youve talked about before. The importance of republicans condemning conduct that has been in a sense, sponsored by the former president when they can. That is not happening loudly enough here. This really could be shut down if people would say its unacceptable. Dont do it. It doesnt support who we are as a party. It doesnt move the nation forward. I fear we live in a nation now where there is a tolerance for this form of behavior, and that once unleashed, it is like a bit of a pandoras box where it is tough to stop it. I know you have some views about the escalation as a Cause And Effect that trump has so far abandoned not just political accountability, like what joyce is talking about, but legal accountability. As did he the day after mueller testified before congress about his report. He gets on the phone. The president of ukraine, president zelenskyy, and extorts him. Looks for dirt on the biden family. There is a real effect to never being held accountable. Oops, youre on mute, glenn. You have to stop and start over. We dont want to miss a word. We still cant hear you. Were going to get glenn firing on all cylinders. This is part of a conversation you and i have all the time. I apologize but im not really sorry that i turned to you on this question of Political Violence. Yesterday, we were here talking about threats that were out there to the grand jurors. The New York Times reported that online threats are real. This arrest in texas of someone who wanted to kill judge chutkan will never not be shocking but it is part of this new normal that trumpism has ushered in. Yeah. I want to address something we often hear. Its a familiar refrain from the far right trying to back away and keep their distance from horrible things that have already happened. You cant account for crazy people, ill say, reacting to what somebody says. And that all of these people who have ever acted out violently have some kind of mental issue. Let assume for the moment that theyre absolutely right. The issue i take with that refrain is that you absolutely should be factoring in the crazy factor in our society. Because it has been proven over and over again to kill people. So in this case of the texas woman, her father showed up in court, in a Federal Court in houston and told the judge, my daughter is an alcoholic. She sits on the couch all day, watches Television News and gets drunk all day. And then she acts out violently, or threateningly all the time against political targets that have been seeded into her brain by television. So its out there. And yes. Its time to understand that words matter, and can even lead to the taking of a life. It happens all the time. So im growing really weary of politicians going, i cant, i cant filter everything that i say through the lens of Mental Health problems. Yeah. You should. Its been proven to be deadly. And once maybe to say that. Weve got el paso, tree of life. Buffalo. All adherence, mass shooters of the great replacement theory. It doesnt exist in a vacuum. It is on highly viewed right wing media. In the case of paul pelosi, the new mexico shooter. Both the assailant theres believed in the big lie. They had a Belief System that helped spur them to violence. Maybe they were also mentally ill. I dont actually know that but they believed in something that is popularized. Traffic. There is a Permission Structure created by the expresident and the Media Outlets that align themselves with him that make all sorts of segments available to them. After the maralago search, trumps heinous attacks against a man that he handpicked, running the fbi. Trumps rhetoric precedes an effort to an armed attack on an fbi field office. I mean, i guess at some point we stop looking for Cause And Effect and ask what we do without the right being part of the solution. Im glad to be back with you. Sorry about that glitch. There are mechanisms in the criminal law to address what we are all experiencing. The law provides that if somebody is on pretrial release and they violate a condition of release, they can be sanctioned up to and including being detained pending trial. And for people who say that is only going to inflame and enrage and perhaps inspire to violence trumps supporters, well, look at how they have been inspired to some of the most horrific threats against the very judge presiding over Donald Trumps trial when hes out on release, when hes not ordered detained pending trial. This Abigail Jo Shry not only has a history of this kind of conduct and was actually out on release in another threats case when she made that phone call to judge chutkans chambers. These threats cant continue to go unaddressed. What youre doing is youre encouraging those who would use them for their own nefarious purposes, or for Donald Trumps nefarious purposes. Youre encouraging more of that. This defendant, miss shry prefaced one of her threats saying, if donald trump is not elected in 2024, were coming to get you and your family. And let me tell you. In case people dont know how small the Criminal Justice circles are in d. C. , i not only tried murder cases against Tanya Chutkan when she was a public defender. I also tried cases against her husband when he was a public defender. He is now a recently retired judge in d. C. They should not have to put up with this. This needs to be addressed by the institutions of government that not only have the power to address it. They have the responsibility to address it. There is something called the Crime Victims rights act. It is a federal law. There are ten rights of Crime Victims. Do you know what the number one right is . The right to be reasonably protected from the accused. I wonder how Many American voters, when you look at count 4 of trumps d. C. Indictment, we the American Voters are all the victims of that conspiracy to deprive us of the full value of our vote. How many of us feel reasonably protected from the accused . I know i sure dont. The collapse of the Republican Party as a political story has had plenty of attention. But not as a National Security, Homeland Security story. And it is, it has fallen to the criminal Justice System to deal with trump in part because hes broken so many laws. And because he does it in a more brazen way. I dont believe Merrick Garland wanted to have to deal with it. The crimes continued and they were so obvious and congress presented so much evidence. Now here we are. Under Merrick Garland, jar smith has indicted him twice. Alvin bragg is carrying the case. Its not the best way to deal with trumps corruption and criminality. The best way is in a healthy, functioning party. Its like squeezing a zit. You have to get rid of it. They cant shake him. The moment was when he came down spewing xenophobic rants and they said oh, yeah, were all with him. Lindy graham apologized and hes now a parttime caddie for donald trump along with service in the u. S. Senate. The collapse of the Political Party covered as a political story is also part of how we got here. Its a National Security problem. Its a war on our institutions, right . This is a war on judges. If mccarthy had a spine and mcconnell, you know, mcconnell has also said he doesnt want to deal with it. We know hes not a fan of trumps but he had an opportunity many times to say including when he attacked his wife. Yeah. And even after january 6th, there was a moment when mccarthy and mcconnell could have come together and said, this is not how we do it in a democracy. Instead they were quiet. 22 days later mccarthy was in palm beach fundraising with trump because they decided that power was more important than democracy, and they thought that this was their guy and they just didnt think they could separate themselves from him. So here they are. And in terms of here we are, what do you see with the Threat Matrix . Just day we have the Death Threats against a judge, in the last hour, a story about online threats against the grand jurors in georgia. We have since ive been sitting here, Mass Shootings for which there is a Permission Structure to discuss in polite republican circles. What do we do . Things dont look good when youre charting out the days and months ahead in terms of risk and threat. Clearly, more people are going to get hurt and that could mean by the way that trump ad lators act out. Or has already happened twice recently, we are going to have the fbi or Law Enforcement having to kill someone because they pose an imminent threat to life. People are willing to die for trump. Often in my career, ive had to conduct risk benefit analysis, right . Dont misunderstand me. Judge chutkan and other judges, four of them, will have to figure out what to do and what the law allows and what the circumstances dictate with regard to trump continuing to pose a threat because of his rhetoric and incitement. They should do what they need to do. However, comma, i also need to figure in what a detained president ial candidate named donald trump looks like in terms of threat and risk. So clearly, hes a threat now and people are getting threatened. No question. People have died. If you detain him, there is a very high possibility that it is going to further insense his base and have them act toward violence. If youre silencing a president ial candidate which im concerned is a way he ran in the first place to protect himself, you have another risk and threat on your hands. This is not easily solvable. Amazing. The republicans cant think of anyone else . Someone who doesnt threaten us . When youre talking about families, your family has been touched by Political Violence. Is that something youre willing to share with us . You think about this a lot in these situations. My fatherinlaw was an 11th Circuit Judge threatened by a mail bomber. That person posed a threat to the 11th Circuit Court of appeals. He sent a bomb to the court which didnt go off. He sent a bomb to florida. He sent a bomb to an aerldman in savannah, georgia. So these risks of violence are not new. What is new is that they are being condoned. And perhaps even worse, that the singular voice that could condemn them, a former president simply refuses to do so. It is inexplicable that this is an aspect of our politics that people are so wrapped up in obtaining and keeping power that we now lack the simple decency to say, there are limits in a democracy. And among those limits are threatening with violence. Jurors like the grand jurors in georgia, judges like judge chutkan. We simply cant tolerate this and remain the america that we want to be. A remarkable moment and a privilege to talk to all of you about it. Thank you so much for this conversation. Molly sticks around a little longer with us in the studio. When we come back, the twists and turns of two criminal cases against the expresident along with a brand new piece of tape from a key trump ally. Theres a lot of his. Adam schiff is our next guest. Dont go anywhere. T. Dont go anywhere. Republicans in congress say if we just cut taxes even more for the biggest corporations the money will eventually someday trickle trickle down to you. Right. 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Let Innovation Refunds help you get started on your erc tax refund. Stop waiting. Go to innovationrefunds. Com you really got the brows. David as we start a new school year, theres something new happening in californias public schools. Theyre called Community Schools. Leslie it really is shared leadership with families, students, educators, and communities. Jessie i feel like were really valued as partners. David its a more innovative, holistic approach. Grant in addition to academic services, we look at serving the whole family. Narrator wellness centers, food pantries, and parental education. Jessie theyre already making a difference. David californias Community Schools reimagining public education. As weve been discussing on todays program, a texas would be has been arrested after allegedly threatening a judge in the 2020 election interference case. But it does not exist in a vacuum or isolation. It follows part of a frightening pattern in recent years of growing vitriolic threats being made against lawmakers, federal officials, media officials, judges, anyone the right wing extreists perceive. Just yesterday we learned that a forum posted the names and addresses of the Fulton County grand jurors who received an indictment against the expresident and each codefendants in a process known as doxing. A man was killed after robertson made alleged threats against joe biden. While threats may target a bipartisan array of public officials, data from the last did he go aid shows that 96 of murders in the u. S. Linked to political extremism are committed by right wing actors. A former member of the january 6th select committee, adam schiff, joins us now. He is candidate for u. S. Senate in california. Congressman, i feel like youre one of those people who has been warning us the longest and the loudest. What do you make of this moment we find ourselves in . There is a dangerous increase in the acceptance of Political Violence. Weve seen it throughout the post presidency. I dont think you can find a member of the january 6th committee who has had multiple threats, multiple people prosecuted for threatening to kill me. It has become all too common. And more members of congress, School Board Members are being threatened, City Councilmembers are being threatened. I remember speaking to a School Board Member who said she wasnt running again because she had a young family and she didnt want to put one the Death Threats. Why would she want to do that . The problem i think at large is when you attack our elections, when you say that the only way you lose is if its rigged somehow, if you can discredit institutions to that degree, if you can attack sufficiently, then what is left to decide what our policies should be . Who should govern . If we cant even agree on a basic set of facts, what is left but violence to decide . This is a path our country has never been down. We need to stop the country from moving any further in this direction. Im afraid that wont happen until donald trump is once again defeated at the polls. But it is a very disturbing trend. What is interesting to me, youre not the variable, right . I guess im old enough and been in politics long enough to remember, youre viewed as a policy expert, a National Security expert, viewed as a reasonable figure by democrats and republicans. Now youre one of trumps enemies, top ten, i guess. Now maybe youre in the second tier, im not sure. What do you think it is . Youre not the variable. What is the variable . What makes Trump Supporters uniquely comfortable and accepting of Political Violence . I think it is a couple things. For the first time we have a Major Party Leader who condones violence. Not always directly but, you know, very thinly veiled. Those who come after me, were going after you. A lot of the rhetoric he uses in his social media posts, at his rallies, is very encouraging of this kind of attitude. The violence is somehow condoned or okay or consistent with who he is. But beyond that, i think what has contributed to the intense polarization is just the fact we dont get our information from the same places anymore. Social media has really magnified the extremes. In particular has allowed people who are prone to violence to find each other online. And given them an organizing tool. And so i think it changes how we get our information but also a party leader who has been a uniquely divisive figure, and willing to sort of break all of the boundaries, all the norms that have guided our democracy until now. I think some of it, too, weve covered the collapse of the Republican Party. I talked about this here, as a political story. When you look at what has been ushered in. This acceptance of Political Violence. A preference for russian leaders as opposed to american leaders who happen to be registered democrats. It is a story also of a party that now represents a threat to our National Security. A threat to our ability to stand by democracies, fighting american adversaries. How do you, how do you, can that be undone . How do you unring those bells . I think youre right. The first year of the trump administration, something that i never thought i would contemplate, which is the threat to our democracy now came from within. That there was nothing china or russia could do to get us to tear do you remember on uninstitutions more than our own president of the United States had been doing. What made that possible was the enablement of so Many Republican members of congress who went along with it. We saw Kevin Mccarthy once again excuse, rationalize Donald Trumps conduct, vilify yet again, that it is all political, justice and accountability, when someone who holding the Offensive Speaker tears down our institutions that way, what has brought to us such a fragile point . I think it has revealed who so many in office really are. What they stand for, really believe in. For many, it is the pursuit of power, the holding of power, the democracy be damned if necessary. It is that kind of ethic that has made things so fragile. I believe that if donald trump is the nominee, and if he loses again, as i believe he will, that the Republican Party just may decide it is time to part company. It is time to have a Party Ideology again, a party which someone like liz cheney or Adam Kinzinger can have a home. They wont do it necessarily for the sake of the country but they may do it for the sake of their party. And because attaching their wagon to donald trump means continuing to lose. I dont share your optimism but i think your political congratulations could be right. There is no governor, whats the wackadoo . Whats her name . No governor carrie lake. I want to ask to you stick around. I want to show you something new to us. Brand new evidence that shows roger stone, and raises some new questions about roger stone and trump and our whole understanding of the time line. Specifically the fake electors. Dont go anywhere. Tors dont go anywhere. Thanks to autoship from chewy. I always love that old man. And he gets the summer house. What . [narrator] save more on what they love and never run out with autoship from chewy. The first time you made a sale online with godaddy was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. We just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. Start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first. Start for free at godaddy. Com your brain is an amazing thing. 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Start for free at godaddy. Com what do we always say, son . Liberty mutual customizes your car insurance. So you only pay for what you need. Thats my boy. Stay off the freeways only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. In an exclusive video from msnbc, heres roger stone on november 5, 2020, essentially dictating the plot, right . How to implement the fake electors plot two days before the president ial race was ever called for joe biden. Any legislative body may decide on the basis of overwhelming evidence of fraud to send electors to the Electoral College who accurately reflect the president s legitimate victory in their state, which was illegally denied him through fraud. We must be prepared to lobby our republican legislatures by personal contact and, by demonstrating the overwhelming will of the people in their state, in each state, that this may need to happen. Were back. Congressman, i dont know if youre a wire fan but he said you need to put criminal conspiracy on payment. There was roger stone dictating it into a computer with lasting implications. What is the significance of the premeditation . I mean, they are never looking for fraud, it would appear, if theyre launching the fake electors plot on november 5, 2020. Thats exactly right. It shows that this whole scheme wasnt something that was adlibed. Wasnt impromptu. This was well thought out. It was communicated among the coconspirators. This was not at all spontaneous. The fallacy in what you heard him say, there was no evidence of overwhelming fraud. He was not the legitimate victor in the election. So he is hypothesizing a theory without any evidence and it reminded me of a bit of a conversation Rudy Giuliani has with the speaker of the arizona legislature, the republican speaker, and to paraphrase, i believe it was giuliani. We have lots of theories. We just dont have any evidence or facts. This is what roger stone is dictating. We dont have any evidence but we might be able to make it so by saying it is so. That ends up being exactly what they try to do. I have the experience now when i see new pieces of evidence, and ive poured over every one of the transcripts that the committee released and ive read the indictments. I dont have the optimism that maybe you have that we caught him this time. I have this sick and disgusted feeling that even these clowns got really close to doing something really bad. How do you feel about 2024 in. They did get really close and it is a real wakeup call for everyone that we thought democracies were increasing around the world. We thought our democracy was always getting stronger. That we would always enjoy more freedoms and we have found out, it is quite fragile. If you have a particularly talented grifter in the oval office and enough people willing to go along with him in other offices, we can go to the brink. I am optimistic. I think we will get through this. We are a deeply resilient country with millions of beautiful patriotic people in every state. This, too, shall pass. I think when youre in crisis, and were in crisis, it is hard to see how it ends. It is tough to see how it will end but it will he said. I have every confidence and i look forward to coming back on your show in the future when we will wonder and ask about how in the hell did that guy ever become president . What were they thinking . And thank god were through that period in our history. I am optimistic about it. I also think theres a lot of hard work to be done between now and then. And these trials will put the country to a real test. But it is such a necessary test. Because the alternative is to tell future president s, you can try to hold on after you lose and if youre successful, youre president for life. If you fail, theres no repercussion. Thats the road to disaster. And i also like the fact that now so many of the enablers are being held accountable. Because trump is already doing what he did in 2020 which is laying go the foundation to challenge the result. Hes already saying if he loses in 2024, it has to be rigged but people are on notice. If they enable his plot, theyll be held accountable. Theyll be prosecuted, whether theyre lawyers or not. And i think thats already an important deterrent effect. All right. Well take your optimism. Well make a date. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today. A quick break for us. I want to bring molly in on all of this. Dont go anywhere. L of this. Dont go anywhere. Just by switching. Ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. On the top of the pile oh. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. ella fashion moves fast. Setting trends is our business. We need to scale with customer demand. 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Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Turning our conversation, Washington Investigations Reporter is still with us at the table. We had this debate in the break, too. I carried on my optimism versus realism about this moment. Something ive come back to over and over again today. There is no governor carrie lake. No senator doug mastriano. The people that have run on what trump seems to be taking to the country in 2024 have failed. Weve seen people vote on democracy. Remember with these last elections, 22 and 20, there was a lot of polling that said people would vote on the economy but people voted on democracy. So it turned out biden was right and the polling was wrong. I do think that is very hopeful. And i do, you know, there was even polling today that more main stream, you know, the people in the middle dont like the indictment. It does not grow the electorate. And that makes a lot of sense. And i think that will be a real problem for trump. Some of this, i pressed rick stengel on this. Some of it is where you look. It is true that trumps base, they keep squeezing them and they keep doling out money to help him defend himself. 30 cents of every dollar that people donate goes to his criminal defense fund. In terms of a message that is growing the coalition, the indictments are not that. Is there any, i dont even want to ask if you theres any reflection among the republicans. I know they dont do that. Is there any sort of secret person about a breaking mechanism should this thing go off the rails . This is the ageold problem with trump that weve seen time and time again. At least in the last two elections when he lost against joe biden in 2020 and the 2022 midterms when House Republicans were supposed to have a sweeping majority, a red wave, and it turned out to be, i dont know, insert your metaphorical a trickle . Exactly. But you know, the former president wants to continue to litigate the results. 2020 election. Hes using this moment in time in order to do so. One of his top aides is potentially releasing one of a report that she put together next week of alleged evidence that proves once and for all, trumps unsubstantiated claims that the 2020 election was stolen, while republicans quietly and potentially as time goes on maybe more loudly dont want trump to continue to do this. They know that this is a losing talking point. Even some of his closest advisers have recommended as such. But during these times of intense pressure, trump is doing what weve seen him do lots of times. Go to these outside advisers and seek reinforcements for some of his most toxic instincts which is doubling down on these unsubstantiated claims that might ultimately be sending some people to prison. Yeah. On the pro side for trump, is there such an operationalized pipeline between his allies in congress who are willing to just push out propaganda. Its now a pipeline. Its the mediarun state, the staterun media. It is seamless. On the other hand, the intensity of the disapproval of republican stuff, the position on abortion is so far out of the mainstream. Republicans are voting against republican policies on abortion. The ohio vote is stunning. The kansas vote the year before that. You cannot find a place where there are extreme views on state mandated pregnancies are winning them elections. There are none. The big lie, a massive loser and this thing we cant test. Chris christie and bill barr punching him in the face. That never happened. Marjorie Taylor Greene and Kevin Mccarthy have really carried the flag for trump and theyve been real servants of his and theyve said a lot of lies look, marjorie Taylor Greene and Kevin Mccarthy have really carried the flag for trump, and they have been will servants of his, and they have said a lot of lies, and who knows if they think it is true, or not. But, we have seen, definitely, some people. There is asa hutchinson, there are people who are standing up to him, which we have never seen. But, i do also think they are running on wildly unpopular ideas. You know, the guy gets up there and says, i didnt get a fair shake, so you have to make the president again, who was that for . Right. I dont know who wants that. It doesnt do anything for anyone. I wonder, jackie, if the idea of runs on the coattails of a guy of a message isnt maga anymore which is, i am your retribution, makes them wonder what their Campaign Slogans are going to be. That is a good, smart thoughts, nicole. It is something that you think the other republican candidates are considering right now, potentially reevaluating. But, we havent seen anyone break out of the pack, just yet. I have heard that there are some preliminary conversations amongst other candidates, about finding ways to maybe approach the Trump Campaign and trump about if these indictments and this criminal exposure ultimately does ultimately cause him to bow out of the race. But, i do not think we are there, just yet. As long as we are in the primary and this continues to feed the base, you will see trump, i think in my opinion, continue to throw red meat and ride this out as far as he can until it is a general election. Then, it might be too late. As molly said, he has sort of squeezed out a lot of those swing, independent, and moderate voters who, all along, have not wanted anything to do with any of these indictments. It is so interesting. He will keep doing what he has done, because in his delusional mind over on earth two, it is all that he has, and he thinks it has worked. But of course, as some of his republican opponent have said, it is now hope they have lost so many contests. Thank you so much for spending time with us today. Another quick break for us. We will be right back. Stay with us. Ith us. We went to safelite. Com. Theres no one else wed trust. Their experts replaced our windshield, and recalibrated our cars advanced safety system. They focus on our safety. So we can focus on this little guy. Singers safelite repair, safelite replace. Rsv is in for a surprise. Meet arexvy. the first fdaapproved rsv vaccine. Arexvy is used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. Rsv can severely affect the lungs and lower airways. Arexvy is proven to be over 82 effective in preventing lower respiratory disease from rsv and over 94 effective in those with these health conditions. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. Those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. The most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. Rsv can be serious. Talk to your doctor or pharmacist about arexvy today. Rsv . Make it arexvy. Let Innovation Refunds help with your erc tax refund so you can improve your business however you see fit. Rosie used part of her refund to build an outdoor patio. Clink dr. Marshall used part of his refund to give his practice a facelift. Emily used part of her refund to buy. I run a wax museum. Let Innovation Refunds help you get started on your erc tax refund. Stop waiting. Go to innovationrefunds. Com you really got the brows. Being middle class right now, its tough making ends meet for sure. Republicans in congress say if we just cut taxes even more for the biggest corporations the money will eventually someday trickle trickle down to you. Right. Joe biden would rather just stop those corporations from charging so damn much. Capping the cost of drugs like insulin. Cracking down on Surprise Medical Bills and all those crazy junk fees. Theres more work to do. Tell the president to keep lowering costs for middle class families. At least 111 people have lost their lives and countless more are still missing in the devastating and tragic wildfires in maui. Although the cause of the fires has yet to be officially determined, many residents are pointing fingers at hawaiis electric, the states largest power company, which is now facing four separate lawsuits. Plaintiffs accused the utility of years of inaction and negligence and argued the company should have had plans in place to shut down Power Systems before fierce winds brew blew across maui. Nbc news is reporting that multiple residents say power chops belonging to the company blocked escape routes as they attempted to flee the blaze. We will stay on it. Another break for us. We will be right back. Ht back. Stay off the freeways only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Book a work trip. Earn onekeycash. Shake some hands. Do not forget to laugh. [laughing] book a getawayfromwork trip. Use onekeycash. Order some sides. Do not disturb. Join one key to earn and use rewards across expedia, hotels. Com, and vrbo. The first time you made a sale online with godaddy was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. We just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. Start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first. Start for free at godaddy. Com i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein. Those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks uuuhhhh. Here, ill take that woohoo ensure max protein, 30 grams of protein, 1 gram of sugar. Enter the 10,000 powered by protein max challenge. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes during this truly extraordinary times. Someday, we will stop saying that, but not yet. We are grateful. The beat, with jason johnson, starts right now. Hi, jason. Thank you, appreciate it. Welcome to the beat. Really big show, we have a lot to get to. We start with Donald Trumps indicting who effort, and the intriguing, exclusive video of trump ally, roger stone. Lets be clear, stakes is high this week because Associates Name checked in the january 6th committee support, named unindicted coconspirators by special counsel john smith got hit with racketeering and conspiracy charges in georgia. It is legal accountability for