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Prepare for the trial. Oh my goodness all the networks wow then, why a federal judge suggested elon musk was protecting donald trump from the production of his twitter plus, real evidence that many criminal charges across for indictments is having an effect on trump voters. And, one year after it was signed, the simple math and wild success of the Inflation Reduction Act, when all in starts, right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. A donald trump and his 18 codefendants in that rico indictment must turn themselves in at the Fulton County jail in Atlanta Georgia within nine days. There they will be booked, processed, and mugshot taken ahead of the arraignments which District Attorney fani willis wants to take place the first week of september. Today willis also proposed a trial date for this case in the efforts to overturn the 2020 election in georgia and elsewhere. She requested Begin On March 4th Of Next year. That is the day before super tuesday. Now of course there is one name that stands out above all the others in this sweeping trump, it listed first, long trump, but the second most wellknown name here is of course rudolph william luis giuliani. Weve been expecting this for quite some time. Weve been expecting to see Rudy Giulianis name on this indictment ever since prosecutors in williss office informed giuliani he was a target of the investigation. About a year ago. But it is still a remarkable fall from grace for a man who was once a pretty widely renowned public figure. Giuliani rose to National Prominence as the Star United States attorney for the Southern District of new york, a gop held from 1883 to 1989. There he oversaw the prosecutions of members of the mob, corrupt government officials, earned a tough on crime reputation, which are used to launchs political career. After giuliani became mayor of new york in 1983, he has totally cultivated the image as the man singlehandedly responsible, just him, for cleaning up the city and bringing law and order. Then in the wake of september 11th, he was americas mayor. Rudy was a front runner for the republican president ial nomination in 2008, though that didnt go that well. And now here, in 2023, at 79 years old, Rudy Giuliani has been indicted for his role and what prosecutors call a criminal enterprise. He is an alleged racketeer, the onetime future president to disgraced laughing stock. In recent years, he has been best known for a series of hat comical, have villainous escapades, like presenting ludicrous claims of voter fraud in front of the four seasons total landscaping. And another Press Conference a few weeks later with hair day trickling down his Sweat Streaked faith. He is awful and often unreadable conversations with the subordinate are all over the internet with a really unsettling Sexual Harassment lawsuit. Even a punchline in a borat movie in the final chapter of his life, Rudy Giuliani is the arp object of ridicule and scorn. He is reputationally and financially near bankruptcy. He is looking at the possibility of living the rest of his days on this earth in prison. How did it happen . How did the once cleaners a whistle Crime Fighter, the law and order, man the americas mayor who led us through such dark moments, how did he end up like this . What happened to rudy . You hear that a lot. I will submit if we take a close all look there is a case to be made, rudy has been this verdie version of rudy the whole time, or least had it in him. In fact rudy himself made a revealing statement to that effect last night when he emerged from his shame bunker to address the indictment. This is a ridiculous application of the Racketeering Statute, and theres probably no one knows it better than i do. Probably some that know it as well. I was the first one to use it in white collar cases. But in major cases like the boesky case, in the milken case, this is not meant for election disputes. This is ridiculous, what shes doing. Rudy is correct. He really did pioneer the use of racketeering laws, often shorthanded as rico, to go after white collar criminals. It was an innovation of his, like michael milken, as he mentioned. He brought rico charges against a mob, the five families in new york, helping to bring down organized crime in new york. According to new reporting for the messenger, wiseguys are rejoicing in the wake of giulianis own rico indictment. Veteran mob lawyer says his client are, quote, effing thrilled. Giuliani also used illegal laws to go after corruption in politics. One of the ways he kickstarted his own electoral career in the city of new york was turning his office, u. S. Attorneys office, attention to the Democratic Political machine of the city, which he was, of course, going to run against, in the race for mayor. In 1996, he took down Stanley Friedman On Racketeering charges. That was a democrat from the bronx, one of new yorks most powerful political figures, as the New York Times pointed at the time. By his own admission, rudy used rico alassad against his political enemies, including the man whose job he won. Democratic lawyer and catch. The rico statute, i was the first one to use the Racketeering Statute for a public corruption. I did it against most of aired cautious administration. [laughter] well, ed wasnt paying attention while they were stealing millions. Think about this. The u. S. Attorney that wants Political Office in the city prosecuting the opposing party, using the power to do that. You might charitably call that weaponizing the Justice Department for his own political ends. Giuliani lost his first race but he succeeded the second time around, after embracing some of the ugliest most demagogic reject races politics that trump would later minor to great effect. In September 1993 he infamously appeared at a police rally that turned into an allout riot, and he refused to decry or denounce it. As mayor giuliani oversaw an incredible increase in surveillance and policing of black and brown new yorkers, and one notorious incident he demonized an unarmed black man who was shot and killed by the police. Clearly even his recent turn as a public face of, frankly, racist accusations of voter fraud, is not really new. Take earlier in the day, ruby freeman and Shaye Freeman mass and one of the gentlemen quite obvious obviously surreptitiously passing around usb as if they were vials of heroin and cocaine. Its obviously to anyone who is a criminal investigator a prosecutor, theyre engaged and surreptitious illegal activity. Again, that day. That was false. Ruby freeman and shaye moss actually sued Rudy Giuliani protect formation. But that kind of rhetoric, talking about these two black women, of being drug dealers, stealing an election, that goes way back to the 1989 race for mayor. 1989 race for mayor which giuliani lost to the first black man elected as mayor in new york, david jenkins. As he told in an interview, 21 years ago, and im quoting it here, they stole that election from me, they stall votes in the black parts of brooklyn, and in washington heights, illegal dominican immigrants were allowed to vote in washington heights. That sounds familiar, doesnt it . Has a certain ring to it. Let me tell you, as a lifelong new yorker, reporters in new york city and critics will tell you, Rudy Giuliani has always been an absolute machiavellian operator. So yeah, you might say, what happened to rudy . Or you could say, this has always been rudy. All the way to the end. Nick ackerman rebriefly worked alongside giuliani was serving as an assistant u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york. Ackerman was the First Federal prosecutor to use rico statute to prosecute a mafia boss. This is a adam serwer, is author of the book the cruelty is the point. Let me talk to you, adam, about the continuity question. Its something youve written about and thought about and how you see the trajectory of giulianis career which is culminating in a very serious felony indictment. If you look at the back of those in races in new york city, those races are a kind of blueprint make new york city great again. Very much rooted in the and a reaction to demographic changes in new york that were represented by the election of the first black mayor in the city. When you go back and look at the rhetoric in that election, he is comparing David Denkins to david duke, calling him racist. You can see the influence of giuliani on the Trump Campaign and on trumps style politics. Its a great point. I think what really happened is neither giuliani changed. The country changed. We changed. We became more perceptive of this kind of manipulation. When we look back at it now its very obvious. But at the time that was considered unacceptable form of politics, and people didnt really get angry at it in the same way. Or rather white people didnt get angry in the same way. Lots of black new yorkers were screaming murder about it. I will say, that police riot that he was president out was extremely controversial at the time. That was a really notable event and ugly. Ugly in a way that i think was covered as such in the press. It had an appeal that carried him over and made him politically successful. Nick, You Cross Paths with him in that same new york attorneys office. I dont want to overstate the case, because when you look at tape of the guy in 1990, he 19 and i, and hes just a better public speaker, a better public speaker, a better version of himself that he is now. But what do you think of this trajectory . I think he was definitely online to go into politics. He was using the u. S. Attorneys office as a vehicle to get him further into politics. What i was in the u. S. Attorney s office, every indictment, be it a simple press release, done on an immigrant machine, maybe one page statement summarizing the indictment, and i was there for about six months of his tenure as u. S. Attorney. I came back shortly thereafter just to visit the office on other business. And i walked into the main part of the u. S. Attorneys office, and you felt like you are in the west wing of the white house. Every single indictment was a major Press Conference. He hired three people on Government Payroll who did nothing but flag him to the press. He did that through in his entire tenure. This was unheard of. Every case was made a major news story, which is why he was able to build up the reputation that he did. Without that backup, without the three people that he hired, one of whom was actually a present person from the New York Post who have been covering the courthouse for years, he wasnt able actually to get himself right into the politics and press of new york city and make a big name for himself as a Crime Fighter when the actual work was done by the assistant to the office. Its not like he was behind everything. The last conversation i had with him when i was at that office, and i didnt have too many, was basically handing over to him a wiretap i had from an investigation into , the under boss of the genovese family, and those tapes essentially were the basis of her bringing charges against the five Family Bosses who were members of the bikers are no strict commission in the country. I gave it to rudy, i told him he should do it. He has been taking credit for that ever since. God bless him. It was something that had to be done. It was important. And that rico case, which i believe was a rico case, that was one of the star turns. Youve also got, i mean, the other thing here is, your point, adam, about the sense of whose city is it a deuce country isnt, which is the through line of that question in the rudy political appeal, i just want to play him, just to remind you of what he is asking people to do, aside from defaming, in my humble opinion, shea moss and others, here is the subcommittee here, mentioned is one of the overt acts in the indictment, basically saying, you dont have to do anything the voter told you. You can choose who can be electors. State law doesnt prevent you, the legislature, from immediately taking this over and deciding this. You are the final arbiter of who the electors should be and whether the process is fair or not. The other way to look at it, its your responsibility if a false and fraudulent count is submitted to the United States government. Its clear that the count you have right now is false. Theres a pretext theyre a false pretext not a false count, but it is undemocratic part of a Public On Utterance by anybody in the country with the exception of trump. Its an expression of the ethos of trumpism, which is that there are certain people who are the real americans, and those people have a right to win every election regardless of whether or not the preferred candidates gets the most votes. And so if by some misfortune they get out voted by the rest of the country, then the State Legislature should step in and essentially, even though hes talking about an rigging the direct the election what hes asking is for the election to be rigged in their favor because theyre the only legitimate americans thus their political will is the only legitimate political will. Its an antidemocratic sentiment thats pretending to be a democratic sentiment. Thats right. Finally, nick, i want you to respond. You wrote an article in the saying this is a good application of the rico statute, the federal version of what you have some experience with. Giuliani said this is a ridiculous use of it. Why do you think its appropriate . Its appropriate because they basically committed a whole series of crimes which is the Indictment Shows comes down to seven different criminal schemes with 18 individuals. Its a good way to put the ball together it would cowed in an indictment and point out to the jury how all of these schemes a related to each other, how all of these different defendants, some of whom may have never even met each other, were all working towards the same goal of keeping donald trump in office and basically steal the election from joe biden. Nick ackerman and adam serwer, glad to have you both gentlemen. Thank you so much. Thank you. Coming up, with the Special Counsel slips into Donald Trumps dms as a federal judge asked if elon musk is trying to cozy up to the former president. 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The filing argues the charges in georgia cover conduct by meadows as Chief Of Staff of the president , which is a federal position. We dont know how the court will rule on this request by meadows. But there is wide anticipation that other defendants in georgia, including trump himself, could also seek to move their case to federal court. And that is just one of the many procedural gambits we will likely see as the trump team tries to make sure this case does not get tried before the election. Its a daunting challenge for prosecutors because this is a complicated rico case, 19 defendants, that fani willis says she wants to go to trial in six and a half months, on march 4th. Every one of those 19 defendants will try everything they can to make sure that doesnt happen. Will it work . Sherry boston is a District Attorney in cobb county, next to Fulton County. She joins me now. First, i wonder how you see these moves to move things to federal court. As a local prosecutor i think projecting how i would feel, taking something out of my portfolio, i would be a bit miffed. But in the end, there are reasons that those motions can be filed. Do you think there is big stakes in that kind of thing . Well, what i can say is is that this was not an unexpected notice. I can guarantee you that any prosecutor, especially a prosecutor like d a fani willis, understood that this was absolutely a possibility, given the fact that youre dealing with the indictment of federal officials. And so i am certain that this was anticipated and that they are prepared to make the arguments in federal court, perhaps as to why this should be remanded back to the Superior Court of Fulton County. Yeah, and we should just note, and we have our guest said this last night, that even if the judge and venue changes, its a few blocks away in Downtown Atlanta in Fulton County, it would be the same farce a cuters office. It doesnt get taken away from fani williss office, right . No, i mean this in a situation where the u. S. Attorneys office, who normally prosecute cases in federal court, we suddenly have to take over this massive indictment. It would still belong to the Fulton County District Attorneys office. I think the main distinction is going to be the selection of the jurors. In Fulton County Superior Court, youre going to have members empaneled from just a district of Fulton County. That is very different than the Northern District of georgia. Yes, in fact laurence tribe, wrote a piece in the atlantic saying basically heres why this is about idea, arguing against it, one of the points he says the neighboring counties including is likely the goal for someone like trump if he makes a filing this nature, or a meadows. In terms of the possibility, this is been floated and you are someone who is sort of directly impacted by this, of trying to remove the District Attorney fani willis, theres a get legislation passed by the Georgia State senate and house, controlled by republicans, that gives them the power to remove d. A. s. You are one of, i believe, for the as in the state who is suing to block it. How likely do you see that is a move that might happen here . Well, we filed this lawsuit against senate bill 92 because we understood and know that there is absolutely an assault on prosecutors, which is an assault on democracy. Prosecutors have to be able to have both independent investigations and use prosecutorial discretion to make the types of huge decisions that we are making every day. The idea that the State Legislatures can create a commission to remove prosecutors for oftentimes difference of opinions on Prosecution Philosophy or politics runs afoul of democracy and should concern everyone in the country and certainly the voters. They have that power now in terms of the law that there is a lawsuit pending against that. Law has not been used yet. Its sort of a thing that looms overall this. The other thing that looms over all this is of course the Security Situation. We saw the Security Situation around the Fulton County courthouse. Today we have this news, that a woman in album texas is accused of threatening to harm u. S. District judge Tanya Chutkan and representative Sheila Jackson lee. According to the complaint the woman admitted to the Homeland Security investigator, saying hey you stupid slave, followed by a racial epithet, threatening to kill anyone who went after trump. How concerned are you about the invective that trump has directed at a colleague of yours, fani willis, all against people who might be involved in this process . Well, we cannot afford to take any overture of Political Violence likely anymore in 2023. It is a huge concern for judges, for prosecutors, even for witnesses that are called to testify in grand juries were proceedings to give evidence or to tell what they know. We have seen this happen. In particular its even more concerning when we are seeing especially black women being attacked and using race and epithets against them. It is very dangerous and we should all be concerned. Sherry boston, District Attorney in the neighboring Dekalb County in georgia. Thank you for making time for us. I appreciated. Thank you, chris. Still ahead, new polls show that even Republican Voters dont love it when their candidate gets indicted. But first, inside the Special Counsels quest to read Donald Trumps private twitter messages. Next. 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Com tv hala several days weve david im david goldberg, a bilingual Elementary School teacher and president of the california teachers association. As we start a new school year, theres something new happening in californias public schools. Jessie theyre called Community Schools. David where parents and families, students and educators are Making Decisions as one. Damien its a real sense of community. Leslie we saw doubledigit gains in math, in english, and reading scores. David its an innovation thats transforming our public schools. Narrator californias Community Schools reimagining public education. Learned that there was a long drawn out legal battle in secret between the Special Counsels office and twitter over a warrant for twitter to turn over access to Donald Trumps account, including his direct messages or dms. Today we have a much fuller picture of that legal battle and it was ultimately released to the Special Counsel in the two sort of Top Line Takeaways or that trump did have lots of dms, what loyal lawyers called Confidential Communications, which the Special Counsels office did Get Access To, and Elon Musk Company did basically everything it could to fight on trumps behalf, including resisting prosecutors demands that they not tell trump about the Search Warrant. Twitters delay in complying with the warrant led the judge to hold it in contempt and hit it with a 350,000 crime. Lisa rubin joins me now. We got indications of some of the contours of this and today we got a bunch more that really show what went down. What did we Get Access To today, and what doesnt show . You can access to a number of Grant Transcripts where the government and twitter was outside counsel are swearing off in front of one of maybe the toughest judges and the district of columbias federal court, judge beryl highly howell, who i should not had intimate familiarity with what the officers have done in the past. Why . Because she was chief the judge of the district and presided overall granary and communication deserts disputes during the Mueller Investigation and uses that knowledge to interrogate twitters council saying are you not aware of the fact that the mueller team, for example, got over 230 orders just like this to access stored communication . Do you think in any of those instances the Special Counsels team went to the white house and said hey, were gonna give you a heads up, were looking for Confidential Communications. No, thats not how it went down. So she was in a good position to put the screws to his twitters council about resistance to complying with her order. I should say a social Media Company that is going to fight Government Attempts to grab users accounts and data is a good thing, i think, in most instances. You want them to be resistant to that idea. One of the things that howl points out is that twitter has been handing stuff out right and left. It is been handing out stuff to really gnarly authoritarian governments and regimes were handing it over really spells doom. Howell seems pointed. What is your deal here with donald trump . She basically accuses them of trying to compensate for the fact that under prior ownership donald trump was kicked off of twitter and that elon musk now may want to make nice with donald trump by giving him a heads up about something that is not appropriate to notify him about. But at the end of the day she succeeds and the government succeeds in getting twitter to comply, not only because she imposes a 350,000 Dollar Sanction on them, but also because the government demonstrates to her its urgency. One of the things that leapt off the page to me is tom wyndham, one of the prosecutor for the government saying we need this information 13 days ago. Were running up against a clock. You can feel the timeliness of what theyre trying to do and the rush in their investigation. Its not to say its overly rushed or impetuous, but you feel some urgency from the government in saying we need twitter to comply and we needed them to comply yesterday. I want to read from the Search Warrant for a trumps to twitter account in the item ands that were sought. Ill direct messages, sent, received, distorted reform. All devices used to log into real donald trump, ip addresses used for log into account from october 2020, january 2021, tweets created, drafted, favorite in, including any deleted. Are we troubled leave, and i believe that trumps lawyers, at one point, say this, or maybe twitters lawyer, that there are personal communications, dms, the Special Counsel did Get Access To. Yeah, and it comes up in the course of this fight about Executive Privilege that twitter is, for reasons unbeknownst to the government and beryl howell, are not a government office, and unless theyre saying he might have Executive Privilege over some of these communications and howell says to them, what would cause you to believe that . And they say well theyre some volume of Confidential Communications here, and she says how do you know that theyre confidential . And thats when they reveal, well, we looked in the dms folder to see if there was anything there. The folder is empty, and you can presume there are no Confidential Communications. But in actuality there is some volume there. Chris, we dont know, are those dms that trump received . Are those that trump said to me . Those are very different, particularly given what settings you can put on your account. Any old yahoo out there in the traverse might be able to send you a direct message. But if they are ones that were sent and if we also learn about who had access to this account, which devices and ip addresses were involved, we might learn a lot more ultimately about how trumps twitter account was used by whom and whether it was sort of used in the way that Paul Manafort used his draft email for folder, as a Staging Ground for what he ultimately became his communications. Thats a great point. Lisa rubin, as always, on point, thank you very much. Thank you. The republican front runner for the nomination to be president is facing 90 when charges over four indictments, and in that sentence gives you pause, you might be a republican primary voter. Not the majority, but there are a lot. David plouffe and jen psaki on some heartening new poll numbers, ahead. Numbers, ahead arrive with a replacement we could trust. Thats service the way we want it. Singers safelite repair, safelite replace. Im currently out of the office. Focusing on a little bluesky thinking. Ill be taking meetings. With family and friends. And checking voicemail. As my activities permit. Ill connect with you. After reconnecting with me. Get 1. 9 apr for 36 months plus 1,500 Purchase Allowance on a 2024 xt5 and xt6 when you finance through cadillac financial. My husband and i have never been more active. When you finance through cadillac financial. Shingles doesnt care. I go to spin classes with my coworkers. Good for you, shingles doesnt care. 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There is a case to be made, it is one of the most significant unsuccessful pieces of legislation in our past. Just look at the name, and look at what it did. In august of last year, when the Inflation Reduction Act was signed into law, inflation was 8. 3 . One year later, inflation is about 3. 2 . Inflation was reduced. Promises made, promises kept. Now, i can hear all of you microeconomics yelling at your tv saying the i. R. A. Was a clean Infrastructure Energy bill with some drug prescription pricing, too. Dropping inflation have more to do with the easing of the supply chain issues from covid and the decline in oil prices as markets came back after the invasion of ukraine and the rate hike from the fed. That is all true. The way politics works, the president is all Doubling Wendy Economy is bad so they get to take the credit when the economy is improving. The democrats had a stroke of genius last summer with West Virginia senator, joe manchin, the deciding vote who was wavering on voting for the act because he was concerned about additional spending and what it would mean for inflation. So, they renamed their spending bill, the Inflation Reduction Act. At the time, that was seen as a cheeky to get republicans. But it worked. That decision has borne both substantive and political dividends. Think about it this way, if a republican president who signed a bill called the Inflation Reduction Act, an inflation dropped by five points in one year, it would be all the ever talked about. So, President Biden, any other democrat in politics, some free advice. I understand that you are kind of reluctant to bring up inflation when it is still higher than anyone would like it to be a 3. 2 its a lot less than 8. 3 and that is known by everyone. Go and tell everyone. We passed the Inflation Reduction Act in over the next year inflation plummeted. Think about it this way, if you pass the Inflation Reduction Act than inflation had gone up five points, youre goose would be cooked. Republicans would talk about nothing else. We passed the Inflation Reduction Act and inflation plummeted. It even fits on a bumper sticker. Awh, use priceline. They have Package Deals no one else has. [son inflates] we can do it go to your happy price priceline meet the future. A chef. A designer. And, ooh, an engineer. All learning to save and spend their money with chase. The chefs cooking up firsts with her new debit card. Hungry . Uhuh. The designers eyeing sequins. Uh no plaid. While mom is eyeing his spending. Nice. And the engineer . Shes taking control with her own account for college. Three futures, all with chase. Freedom for kids. Control for parents. One bank for both. Chase. Make more of whats yours. rsv can be a dangerous virus. [sneeze]. For those 60 and older. Its not just a cold. And if youre 60 or older. 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But, what i keep coming back to, as they consider the politics of a possible trump, biden rematch, which is not guaranteed, is do not overthink it. Like, is it good to get indicted multiple times if you are a candidate for office for presidency . If no. Is it good to be facing several trials for those crimes . No. Is donald trump a popular dude . No. We now have new polling telling us just how unpopular the ex president s. As of this week, trumps favorability is 27 points underwater. 62 of people view him favorably. And despite his death threat on the republican primary field, 52 , 53 say that they definitely would not support him and the 2024 election. Which doesnt even take into account the 11 that say they probably wouldnt support. None of this serves as any kind of guarantee. He is a republican nominee, hes basically one unforeseen shock, or external catastrophe away from winning. So, it absolutely could happen, that is way too close for comfort. But hes an extraordinarily weak general election candidate. And this just reinforces no matter who you are, getting indicted on 91 individual charges in four months is not great. Jen psaki served as a White House Press secretary, and shes now the host of inside with jen psaki on msnbc. David plouffe is a Campaign Manager for senator brock obamas 2008 president ial run and he serves as a Senior Adviser to president obama and they both join me now. General, i will start with you, this polling looks a little different from the New York Times polling again all of this stuff is like somewhat speculative. But, again, your read of the ap poll in the wake of what appeared to be the final of the four indictments at least for now . Chris, two things that i probably have learned from david plouffe, one, is a republican primary electorate is not the same as a general election electorate which is pretty obvious but we are so focused on the republican primary electorate. It is easy to forget that that is not the same as the entire country having the opportunity to vote. And you see that in the poll. The second thing is that georgia has long been a swing state. Sometimes a state democrats really wanted but recently a state that democrats have won and trump Needs Georgia and georgia is going to be a state where it is going to be a televised trial. So this is looking at that poll it feels to me like as you stated it is obvious, more indictments are not good for a political candidate but theres more people who are going to see it and it is going to be in their face for months, especially during the general election. That is a great point particular leave because the republican establishment has no incentive to bow to him particularly because they took him on in this last midterm and beat him. Theres also the case that to it being in peoples face, i think a huge amount of this with trump is that most people know who the guy is and one way or the other at this point and have their feelings about that. Theres not a lot of flex there. That said, i do think that people under price what it would be like to have him actually undergoing a trial and to have this and use for a year. What do you think . I think i agree with jen completely that the question is that they have a single swing voter in the atlanta suburbs in the ring counties outside of milwaukee and in phoenix who says you know what . Im not going to vote for donald trump because of the 91 counts. Thats the issue. Again, it may help him with the republicans. And i will say a couple of things about polls. Lets remember that this is a guy who ran for president twice as the republican nominee and one once neither time with 40 of the vote so for him to have any chance of winning in 2024 unless theres a third party vote he has got to grow. So these are not the conditions to grow and even that cole had everyone worried we will do simple math. 43 plus 43 is 86 and that is not 100. Donald trump is a republican nominee and hes going to get 46 and maybe 47 but my sense is that a lot of that is baked and so this is a deeply, listen, even without all of these indictments, and this being in peoples faces. This would be political malpractice in my view for the republicans to nominate him. There are plenty of people who would be stronger candidate is against joe biden. So that is where this is. And i agree, the Georgia Point is really important. It is hard to construct a scenario where donald trump wins the presidency, or any republican votes without georgia 16 electoral votes. This is going to be front and center for weeks, if not longer. It is a great point, it is something that i think that there is significant in republican circles. I return to this time and time again. It is a bit of an obsession of mine. But i dont know if there is an imbalance of howell neurotic Democratic Political professionals are versus republicans or what the deal is. But can you imagine the freak out, jen, if the nominee, you go back to 2015, if Hillary Clinton had four different like, everyone would be freaking out. It would be everything would be torn asunder, there would be pushes, i mean, the degree to which that is not happening over there continues to just be astounding. I know. You are totally right having worked in Democratic Politics for a long time. Democrats love to wet the bed and really stressed out and wring their hands about all sorts of things. That is also not necessarily the worst characteristic because it is important to be on the right edge. It is good. It is important for people to be on the edge and always think that they might lose because it is motivational. But there is such a difference to your point, chris, between what happens in the democratic and the republican electorate. Theres been so many interesting polls at tell you a lot. Theres a story i read today in the new yorker that had this graph that i cant i keep thinking about. About how and voters were told one thing, and it was put in the mouth of donald trump, they liked it. When they were told the same thing and said trump posted, they didnt like it. Meaning his hold as a person over the electorate and the Republican Party is so strong, but to echo david, there are other candidates that would be harder, that would be stronger in different ways. Maybe less tested, maybe they dont have the same hold on the electorate but stronger in different ways. And those favorable, what do you make of the favorable ratings . Because again, theres back and forth about how much they matter. People will vote for people that they do not rule they dont have a favorable impression of. That is a thing that happens. There is some category of voters. But being 27 points underwater. 63 of the folks saying that they have an unfavorable view of you. That is 62 . That is a rough sledding. Well, yes, chris. The thing to remember is, his Approval Rating in the Republican Party is so strong that basically, the vast, vast majority of independents. Not just democrats. View him like that. Lets go back to 2016, the data suggested that donald trump won the voters who were unfavorable to vote towards him and Hillary Clinton. So, a couple of things. One, lets say it is trump or biden, biden has gotten much higher favorable ratings particularly as a human being and a person. So it is not at the end of the day, the stronger issue here will be that he has to rely on people who voted against him in 2020 to come back. Whereas which does worry me a bit. That is probably his safest route and no one who has seen all of this is not just the indictments and what theyre all about, it is his reaction to it. Do people really want to give him four more years . They were done with the nightmare in 2020 and i think that they are now. So, that is what is interesting. I think jens point is an important one. Generally, the party that wins the presidency is the one whos bayswaters are closest to the elector. The Democratic Party from 92 was the one that was further away from the elector. Right now there is no question that the Republican Base voter is further away from the middle of the electorate than democrats, are and that should work in the partys favor. That is a good answer. Thank you both. That is all in on this wednesday night, now earlier in the show, we mentioned a big day today. It has been one year since President Biden signed the Inflation Reduction Act. Its not the only anniversary that we are marking tonight. Alex wagner tonight also turns one today and as great as the i. R. A. Is, alex wagner tonight is even better. Good evening, alex. I dont know. I mean, i really appreciate the sentiment. I think you are better than the Inflation Reduction Act. I do. That is saying a lot. That is like the biggest investment in Climate Change that the country has ever made and in cable news on at nine pm