Transcripts For MSNBCW Deadline 20240704

Kind of a preview of how shell run her court and this case. And in deciding whether to grant Special Counsel jack smiths request for protective order limiting what the disgraced expresident can and cannot say publicly about the case, judge chutkan cuts through Talking Points like a hot knife through butter. On the First Amendment protections, they are so fond of citing, mr. Trump, like every american, has a First Amendment right to free speech. But that right is not absolute. Adding that without a protective order, the disclosure of discovery materials could lead to witnesses being harassed or otherwise interfering with a fair trial. What about the fact that trump is running for president. And chutkan did not mince words on that eithe saying, this is a criminal trial and i will not take into consideration the impact will have for have for a political came on either side. He will have all of the rights hesen tieptled to. The existence is not going to have any bearing on my decision. I intend to keep politics out of this. And judge chutkan had this to say, your clients defense is supposed to happen in this courtroom not on the internet. And to the extent youre client wants to make statements on the internet, they have to yield to Witness Security and safety. I could see the possibility for a lot of problems here. Indeed. Now, we should point out the judge did not grant the sweeping protective order jack smith had asked for. Both sides got some of what they were seeking. But make no mistake, in her words and in her demeanor on the bench today, judge chutkan said she did not come to play. Just moments ago the judge issued that protective order. Weve assembled an expert team to break it down. But i want to read one section that seems aimed squarely at reigning in donald trump. Defense counsel may provide sensitive to the defendant as necessary to assist in preparation of the defense and Defense Counsel is not required to be present while the defendant reviews sensitive materials. However, if Defense Counsel does show or provide sensitive materials to the defendant, the Defense Counsel may not allow the defendant to write down any personally identifying information that is contained in the sensitive materials. If the defendant takes notes regarding sensitive materials, Defense Counsel must inspect those notes to ensure that the defendant has not copied down personally identifying information. Moreover, during any time that the defendant reviews sensitive materials outside of the Defense Counsel presence, the defendant must not have access to any device capable of photocopy or recording or other wise replicating the sensitive materials including a smart cellular device. And that is where we start this hour. Lets bring in msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin and with us former u. S. Attorney harry litman and reporter for the washington post, Carol Letting is here. Judge chutkan issuing her protective order and i believe youve had a chance to look through it. What jumps out to you . The extreme solicitation for witnesses. Shes making very clear that he cant be in any way intimidating or even demeaning them and she put everything that has to do with witnesses in the compartment of sensitive information. Not just grand jury witnesses, and anyone that the government has interviewed. That is the first thing. And then the second thing is even as she gave a nugget to the Trump Defense team of not defining everything as sensitive materials, she took it away by making clear that anything that government was concerned about, in terms of both the jury pool and going after witnesses would violate the order anyway. So i think as you say, alisa, she has put them on notice and given a verdict that is i would say 6040 for the government. At one point the judge seemed to nod to the classified documents case saying, quote, he, trump, has a habit of taking documents he shouldnt take. Walk us through some of the conditions of this protective order and the rules around who could see documents from trumps team and where and when. So the people would could see documents that are marked as sensitive are people who are employed by trumps team and that is a point of contention today. Because john lauro was one of President Trumps lawyers essentially said we are the david in this fight. And the Department Of Justice and Special Counsels office with 60 lawyers at their disposal, they are the goliath and we need people we dont pay to get through all of the discovery. That didnt go anywhere with judge chutkan. He said by your definition, mr. Lauro, people who are ununindicted coconspirators to look at sensitive materials. So she was putting the screws to the trump team today and i would say it is more than 6040 for the government because of one of the things that he just said. All of the things that the government cared about is already defined as sensitive materials and tom wyndham stood up today and said the vast majority of materials that will be produced to President Trump, those are sensitive materials as well. Lisa, i want you to ask what sounds like a stark rebuke from judge chutkan at the end. I caution you and your client to take special care in your public statements about this case. I will take whatever measures are necessary to safeguard the integrity of these proceedings. Even arguably and ambiguous statements from parties or their counsel if they could be reasonably interpreted to intimidate witnesses or to prejudice potential jurors could threaten the process. The more inflammatory statements, the greater the urgency will be that we proceed to trial quickly. She knows who she is dealing with here. She does. She absolutely knows who shes dealing with. And shes also drawing a distinction between the protective order, which governors the use of discovery or evidence in the case, and the obligations that are incumbent ton trump and his lawyers not to intimidate witnesses or tamper with the Jury Pool Irrespective of whether the threats concern them and shes saying your client has a condition of release, hes a free person right now because of those conditions. And if he intimidates witnesses, tampers with the joor jury pool and shares investigation or threatens the Fair Administration of justice in my watch, that is not going to fly with me. I want to underline a part of this. If they would be reasonably interpreted to intimidate witnesses. Does trumps post about if you come after me, ill come after you, does that fly . Is that to me . Yes, harry. Im sorry. I think it falls totally flat. Look, i agree with basically everything lisa is saying and one more point. She treated trump like a truant child. The most sort of galling thing of all. Obviously he started at a level of mistrust. So he started with a record as it were. Now there will be exactly this debate. The reason there is something for him is not just what he got, but there will be a next level where they argue about terms and then she imposes something more strict and then at the end of the day, the big hammer she has, of course, but she doesnt want to deploy it early or at all if they could help it, it is putting him in jail. But they know that at the end of the day, it is her courtroom and her witnesses to worry about and it is her process to take account of and she will, i think, she showed today, be unafraid if he pushed her to the wall of responding with the most severe sanction. Carol, the guidelines here, they are Crystal Clear and unambiguous and of course the question becomes will donald trump adhere to these rules . Will he adhere to this protective order or perhaps this question is can he . Is he temperamentally capable of doing what is laid out here . Looking back, in the history of Donald Trumps annuls of following rules, following the law, it seems unlikely that he will follow these until punished rather severely. I think what is interesting and let me say two things. One, in a way, were all all of your viewers are going through law school again as we follow this. And i want to remind viewers that, you know, what judge chutkan is ordering is completely routine other than this is a form he president. Which hes asking for and demanding is that there not be commentary outside of the Courthouse Steps or in Donald Trumps case on truth social that tampers with the pool or seems or appears to threaten witnesses. Judges have come down so hard on any public commentary by lawyers toward defendants that threatens either of those. This is no mystery to anybody who has walked into that courthouse or done any business in it. That is exactly what is required. And i think harry and lisa nail it, donald trump has already said on tuesday, for skanl pell, im going to say whatever i want. And hes also basically said, as you flashed on the screen a little bit ago, if you go after me, im coming after you. What could be more threatening honestly from a president ial candidate . I think what is outside of the pail here, and it seems to be warranted based on Prior Experience with donald trump, is that he is not allowed to see any identifying information of people who have been interviewed and not be able to share it. And the attorneys are on the hook if anything comes out, right. If donald trump issues a threat against witness number two, or so and so lied when he said this, when that happens, those attorneys, theyre licenses and probably a good bit of money is on the line as a possible penalty. But harry is right, the ultimate penalty is jail. That would be a very big step in this case with a president ial candidate and a likely nominee. But it is there. And there has been worse as weve said. Duct tape on the mouth. Harry, it is a person who does not believe that the rules apply to them and judge chutkan took pains to say that in the eyes of the court, donald trump is not special. Quote, hes a criminal defendant, hes going to have restrictions like every other defendant. And at another point referring to his candidacy of his day job. Realistically, if trump doesnt follow this protective order in addition to going to trial even faster, what other recourses does judge chutkan have . It is a really good question. Because what she wants to do, she contemplated that he will do this, that he will at least try to push on the border. And so she wants to have sort of to be able to go in iteration, she doesnt want to go to the ultimate sanction and i think that is explaining part of what she did today in saying all right, maybe you could look at or comment on nonsesive material. So the next thing would be a stronger protective order and give the government all they want and after that could be a potential gag order and there will be one, two or three very stern lectors where she would say, i have one remedy left and if do you this again, i cannot do anything other than put you in jail for contempt and once she has said that, if he does it again, there really isnt anything else she could do. Query whether in some respects trump seeks out this kind of martyrdom, because hes had the message really brought home to him that there will be consequences. And i want to say carol makes a great point with the lawyers. Chutkan has strong leverage over the lawyers. She will call them to the carpet and really hammer them for somehow trying to distance themselves from trump. This is your client, you best advise him, mr. Lauro, et cetera, et cetera and that is part of the overall sort of menu of options. But the one at the end of the day is what undergurds it all, she doesnt want to get it there if she doesnt have to but he may force her. There is a piece i want to understand. Is the protective order is limited to sensitive documents and that includes Audio Recording of witnesses. Why is that significant . It is significant because today in court tom wyndham, one of the prosecutors with the Special Counsel, said as a default with respect to all of the interviews that the Special Counsels office has done with witnesses outside of the grand jury, they made Audio Recordings of those. Most of them will be reduced to transcripts. But we know with donald trump that the sound of somebodys voice describing what they participated in, or what they heard, a conversation they took part in, it is far more powerful than the transcript alone. The january 6 Committee Hearings are a testament to that proposition. So the fact that tom wyndham said there are hundreds of Audio Records with witnesses that we talked to outside of the grand jury. I felt like you could hear a pin drop at that moment in the courtroom. For me that was a very significant moment because while those materials are sensitive now, and they wont be in the public dpoe domain now, that is not true of a trial in this matter. Harry, we know the government is prepared to turn over 11. 6 million pages of discovery as well as a hard drive containing extractions from various devices. At one point judge chutkan jokes to the trump lawyers, that, quote, i could imagine your motion for a trial date now. The former parallel in me knows that 11. 6 million pages of discovery is a lot of boxes. It is a lot to go through. Does it actually slow it down . Only a little. You know, it is the Parallels Today will tell you when theyre dealing in terabytes, that is when it gets huge. This is a paper case. But what really matters to me and this dove tails to what weve been talking about, theyre going to give him all of the transcripts and all of the statementsm they do not have until the eve of trial. Theyre going to do it any way and we think that is what made him kind of wig out in maralago. Hes now going to see in Black And White and, as lisa emphasized, hear mike pence say things about him but not just him, mark meadows, anybody you could name they have interviewed and hes going to be enraged and it is exactly that, that he has to have a muzzle put on him. But the big point is theyre giving him almost everything there is to give. There is this extra Little Mystery about a few classified documents. But theyre saying, have it, prepare your defense but dont try to intimidate witnesses with it. Although the judge was adamant that she wont let his day job get in the way of the proceedings. But if it goes to trial in january, look at that calendar, it will collide with early votes, with primaries, with debates just how is that going to work . It will play right into donald trump and his lawyers claim outside of the courthouse and on the internet that the Justice Department writ large came for donald trump as he ran for president to try to stop him from being president. Now we all know based on looking at the indictment and the facts within, and also understanding the independence of jack smith, totally independent of the Department Of Justice, we all know that is a really dubious claim that this was to try to stop him from being the president. However it is helping his trumps claims and specious one that, hey, it is all an effort to stop you, my supporters, from getting the candidate in the white house that you want. And the timing is just playing right into his hand in that respect. Jack smith, i have to say, and his team, a stunning amount of work in a stunningly short period of time. Think about november 18th, 2023, and an indictment just a few weeks ago. It is there is no case that ive seen that has been brought that quickly. It builds on some of the information the Department Of Justice had gathered before that. But he to do a lot of this work and repeat a lot of january 6 interviews himself. Along with his teammates. He worked as fast as i think is possibly is humanly possible from just looking at it from someone who has covered a court before, a Federal Court A Complex Conspiracy alleged in the pages. But his hand is weakened by this timing. Lisa, two things could be true at same time. It could be true that judge is not going to make decisions predicated on how they impact a political outcome. And it could be true that she knows this time line. She understands how these dates stack up. This is the first time we saw her on the bench providing in real life over this case. If today was a coming attraction of how she is going to be as the judge on this case, i wonder what you think we could expect moving forward . I think we could expect a trial more expeditiously than the trump team could ever want. And i do think that her way of calibrating their behavior within the necessity of having a trial sooner is perhaps the best incentive to get the kind of behavior from donald trump that she wants, that and the threats against the lawyers have obligations of their own. D. C. Has more stringent local rules for what the lawyers themselves can say. But i do think that judge chutkan is a pragmatic person and it may not be beyond here to reach out to other judges who are presiding over matters involving donald trump. Whether civil or criminal, and see what flexibility is there to try those cases at other times. When can this case realistically be tried. Shes not required to live in a vacuum and have no contact with those other judges. There is no rule that governs who should go first based on who charges first and there is similarly no rule that prohibits her from communicating with other judges in the state or federal system. Whether she finds that is appropriate, well all learn together. Lisa rubin, i was looking forward to have you with me in the table, but now outside of the courthouse. Thank you so much for being with us. Harry, you are sticking with me. When we come back, some unexpected news from attorney general Merrick Garland appointing a Special Counsel to oversee the investigation into hunter biden and why not and what else they could be investigating. And plus prosecutors in Fulton County, georgia, expected to present their case to the grand jury next week. And what that will look like and the likely fourth indictment will be taken into consideration. And later in the show, the expresident s very real lul trumps are pushing his cash to the breaking point. Could you have to use his money to finance his political bills and his campaign. Deadline white house continues after this. Do not go anywhere. R this do not go anywhere become an aunty. Book a flight. Stay 4 nights. Meet the baby. Make the baby cry. Give the baby back. Fly home. Silver tier in a single trip. Join one key and move up tiers fast. tony hawk skating for over 45 years has taken a toll on my body. I take Qunol Turmeric Silvbecause it helpsgle trip. With healthy joints and inflammation support. Why qunol . It has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric. Qunol. The brand i trust. Wayfair has nice prices, so you can have nice things. Um kelly . We have champagne taste. On a hard seltzer budget. Wayfairs got just what you need what. Yall this is nice. Salad plates . Kelly clarkson . Im fancy now i have always wanted statement lighting. Get nice things at nice prices at wayfair wayfair, youve got just what i need you founded your Kayak Company because you love the ocean not spreadsheets. You need to hire. I need indeed. Indeed you do. Indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. Visit indeed. Com hire we used to struggle with greasy messes. Now, we just freak, wipe, and were done with mr. Clean clean freak, conquering messes is that easy. Clean freaks mist is three times more powerful, and it works on contact. Clean freak, just freak, wipe, done. Tuesday, of this week, mr. Weiss advised me that in his judgment, his investigation has reached a stage at which he should continue his work as a Special Counsel and he asked to be so appointed. Upon considering his request, as well as the extraordinary circumstances relating to this matter, i have concluded that it is in the Public Interest to appoint him as Special Counsel. That was attorney general Merrick Garland today announcing the appointment of david weiss in the probe floor hunter biden as well as for any other matters that arose or may arise from that investigation. Weiss, who is a trump apointed attorney has been investigating hunter biden since 2018. The announcement coming moments before prosecutors said in a court filing that the Plea Negotiations brought by weisss office has fallen apart. The case is now expected to go to trial. Lets bring into our Panel Tom Winter with the latest and harry is still with us. Tom, remind us, this came about because of the break down in the plea deal. What happened there . So in july 26th, everybody thought this case was over and even though there was an on going investigation. We had seen no sign of it. We hadnt heard about anybody being interviewed or grand jury subpoenas or search warrants or anything like that being served. So there was though indication to us that was ongoing and everybody thought that once hunter biden entered his guilty plea on Misdemeanor Tax Charges and hes paid, theyve been paid by a third party. That effectively this would all go away. There could be a sentencing at sp point and there a gun charge tried to Gun Possession while someone was using narcotics and that would be a Pretrial Diversion Agreement so there wasnt even a future trial or any sort of Court Hearing on that. And then we would be done at that date. The judge took a look at the terms, she had some questions, she said, about the terms in the Plea Agreement, how they interacted with the Pretrial Diversion Agreement and vice versa. She also said that she had concerns about the court being brought in to potentially determine whether or not hunter biden in a future date, if he violated the terms of that agreement, if prosecutors said that he did, they had a provision that it would have to go before a judge and the judge would make a determination. And she had questions about that. And she said im not accepting or rejecting it either. I want both sides to get back together and work on the language and see if you could come to an agreement that addresses my concerns and come back in here and have a guilty plea. Short of that, however, this is now a trial underway here, weve got speedy Trial Considerations to have and she asked for a plea from hunter biden who entered not guilty because he doesnt have a Plea Agreement any more. And that is where we were up until this week. An that is where things stood. From that point, there were discussions going back and forth, federal prosecutors referenced them in a note to the court today, and everybody immediately realized, we cant bring this case in delaware. You have to have venue, the first thing the federal prosecutors have to prove is venue. Do you have a reason to bring this charge in this particular district. And they realized, prosecutors realized and said so today that bringing a trial, a farce if they were to bring a trial in delaware because there is nothing in their investigation or at least in the charges that they were prepared to bring that connects to delaware. So they were out of the box there. During the course of this, and ive asked the u. S. Attorneys office this question, weiss is also sending this notice to Merrick Garland saying hey, i would like to be Special Counsel and when did the calculus turn there and that is a valid question and did he ask Special Counsel Status. He said nobody is stopping me in this investigation and i was told if i wanted to bring charges in another jurisdiction, i could ask the u. S. Attorneys office to partner up or request Special Attorney Status and i could bring the charges myself because it is not something that an attorney in boston cant bring charges in miami for instance. In the Southern District of florida. So that is where this stood. And ive asked the u. S. Attorneys office, okay, did you ask and i asked weiss specifically in his press representative, did you ask california and d. C. To bring these charges and did they say no or did you decide that you wanted Special Counsel Status and do your own thing. So there are a number of questions that remain out standing. Bottom line, it looks like the filings and everything that we know, hunter biden is going to trial soon. We have a lot of good questions. I want you to take us as you understand it inside of the Inner Workings of the Justice Department. Is possible that weiss forced garlands hand by asking him to appoint him . I think basically. So, look, it is in a regular appointment. A Special Counsel comes from outside of the department. Normally there is a conflict and it would be the departments adamant view there is no con flick in prosecuting a relative of the president and theyve done it before. But everything that tom said is right and shows the tangled web. But it is yet more tangled, because this gets tied up with the back and forth with the jim jordan committee. A whistleblower forward and they said i was in a meeting and weiss said to me, im not a Special Counsel or so that and there is a problem, as it turned out he said, im not a special ay. The guy just misheard it. But he was explaining why he couldnt simply just un latterly bring charges say in california. That was the source of these totally misunderstood charges that he didnt have independence. In fact, garland was adamant and so was weiss, he had the independence he needed to bring another charge. So a third reason that makes this appointment anomalous, is that he has all of this authority any way. One final point is the breakdown, with the judge was kind of a unforced error by biden and the doj because they pushed together the Diversion Agreement with the guilty pleas and that made the judge understandably say, i cant administer this Diversion Agreement, whether you bring charges, that is something for the executive, not for me. So it is really a messy situation. But you cant help but think that when there was the big controversy, even though it was basically misunderstood and even phony, that led weiss eventually to say, and everyone the number one point is where tom starts, everyone thought this had been completed an put to bed and that led weiss to say on tuesday, i would like the authority and therefore he wouldnt even ask permission. And i do think what can garland do at that point that wouldnt spark a huge brouhaha, nevertheless, to me, it feels on sit of what Special Counsel is supposed to be. Seemed prison by the legal work and the bullying that has created the conflict or controversy that Made Weiss Ask and garland agree for him to be a Special Counsel now. Tom. A lot of people are asking, can weiss now investigate matters outside of the tax issues . According to garlands letter appointing him Special Counsel, he does have some of those capabilities. But weve seen no signs that theyve gone beyond that. And any time in the last year, second real quick point, i think it is important for people to know that if charges are filed, theyre not going to mimic what we saw in delaware. In their own letter, the letter they filed with the court today, they essentially telegraph that i think there is going to be additional charges coming, perhaps some stronger charges along the tax lines. Well be covering it all with us. Thank you so much. Up next, georgia was the center of the storm for the expresident s lies and conspiracy peddling about the 2020 election and now the years long investigation into it could be nearing its end just next week. For those in and around Fulton County are preparing. Tide is busting laundrys biggest myth. That cold water cant clean. Cold water, on those stains . Cold water cant clean tough stains . Id say that myth is busted. Turn to cold, with tide. christina wanna know the secret ingredient to running my business . tina id say thaher. Th is busted. christina being all over, all at once. tina all the time. christina but my old network wasnt cutting it. And thats not good for baking. Or judging. Or writing. So, we switched to verizon, the Network Businesses rely on. With Verizon Business unlimited, i get 5g, truly unlimited data, and unlimited hotspot data. So, no matter what, im running this kitchen. vo make the switch. Its your business. Its your verizon. More shopping . You should watch your spending honey. Im saving with liberty mutual, mom. They customize your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Check it out, you could save 700 dollars just by switching. Ooooh, ill look into that. Let me put a reminder on my phone. Save 700 dollars. Pick up dad from airport . Ohhhhhh. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Dad, whats with your toenail . Only pay for what you need. Oh, that. . Im not sure. Its a nail fungus infection. Thats gross its nothing, really. Its contagious. You can even spread it to other people. Mom, come here dont worry about it. Itll go away on its own no, it wont go away on its own. Its an infection. You need a prescription. Nail fungus is a contagious infection. At the first signs, show it to your doctor. And ask if jublia is right for you. Jublia is a Prescription Medicine used to treat toenail fungus. Its most common side effects include ingrown toenail, application site redness. Itching, swelling, burning or stinging, blisters and pain. Jublia is recognized by the apma. Most commercially insured patients may pay as little as 0 copay. Go to jubliarx. Com now to get started. Your Shipping Manager left to find themself. leaving you lost. You need to hire. I need indeed. Indeed you do. Indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. Visit indeed. Com hire we got the house matching your job description. You did pods handles the driving. Pack at your pace. Store your things until youre ready. Then we deliver to your new home across town or across the country. Pods, your personal moving and storage team. The federal judges stern warning of the thrice indicted expresident s public statements ahead of his 2020 election conspiracy trial. It comes as he continues to abuse every platform he has access to. In order to gaslight his base ahead of what is expected to be his fourth indictment next week when Fulton County District Attorney fani willis will have charged in georgia but new reporting explains why trump might have a harder time convincing republicans to shrug off his perils in that case, in which voters republican officials in georgia alone served as trumps direct targets. And the Atlanta Journal constitution, Georgia Acvisits are on edge. Some are repeated trumps mantra about the indictments in miami, new york and washington are politically motivated witch hunt to protect joe biden but others worry it could weaken trump and alienate swing voters that could flip georgia. Greg bluestein is with us and harry is back with us. I want to read this from a member of gop on the impact of these charges. Quote, i know it will definitely un fight his base even further and energize them to turn out the in primary. The question is how will it affect the arth republican president ial primary report and what does your reporting telling you about the possibility of charges alienating a group of republican voters. Weve seen National Polls that shows trump loyalists writing off the Criminal Charges as another attempt to politicize a prosecution to inoculate and insolate joe biden. But here in georgia, they remember firsthand the phone call to brad raffensperger, they lived through donald trump pressuring like brian kemp and chris carr to do things to overturn joe bidens victory and invalidate the will of the georgia voters. The folks in that story are not just republican activists but leaders that are concerned, even if their loyalists, theyre concerned that your average swing voter wont come back and rally in donald trump base this time around, especially with the Criminal Charges pending against them. And to that point, willis will present her case next week. How much are georgia voter going to learn from her how trump targeted their space or their voters especially with potential charges for more than a dozen of his allies. A ton. And they may well learn a ton about how he targeted other state voters as well. That would be one big reason she would do this rico charge, which is what youve been hearing about. The defining feature of this case is it is going to be as complicated, as sprawling as the three of them put together and then some. I dont know if youve been in a courtroom with five defendants but with 18 defendants boggles the mind, beyond the ground political dynamics in georgia, but in the court kind of courtroom battles, it is going to be completely transformed by that kind of enormous number. Imagine 17 defendants crossexamining a single government witness. There is many complicated motions that they could bring because it is state and federal. But this is going to sort of blow the doors off in terms of its overall kind of complicated and sprawling nature. Quick, let talk about the politics for a second because it would seem democrats in georgia find themselves where democrats are nationally which is this dilemma of deciding how much to talk about Donald Trumps legal peril versus focus On The Issues that americans say are most important to them. Where do georgia democrats find themselves today . For most part, theyre following the lead of joe biden, and other National Democrats in not wanting to talk about this. It is not going ignored here in georgia. It is the Talk Of The Town here. But democrats arent playing into it, and not feeding the republican narrative that democrats are doing this to sideline the former president. They want to focus on their issues, the economy, expanding medicaid, preserving Abortion Rights, restricting gun access. Issues that they see as galvanizing rather than talk about Donald Trumps struggles. Greg, i only have about 30 seconds left but i have to ask you about the possibility that the current republican governor could or be a star witness in this case. And i wonder if that is something that republicans in the state are nervous about just optically . Not just republicans, but i could assume that the governor himself. He was one of the recipients of Donald Trumps calls pressuring him to call a special legislative session to overturn these elections. So we could only assume that brian kemp would be a star witness in this trial if it goes forward. Greg, i hope you have a very restful weekend because i have a busy, busy week ahead of you. Harry litman, thank you for spending quite a bit of time with us today. When we come back, those in maui will return to what is left of their homes and the search for more loved ones and friends remains orn going. Latest on the Recovery Efforts in hawaii and what residents there now need most. Need most. A man, his family, and his tractor, penny. These are the upshaws. And this is their playground. Theres a story in every piece of land, run with us on a john deere tractor and start telling yours. ambience of room, birds, Scrolling Content on phone you tried. Limiting when it was okay. No tech behind closed doors. But social medias algorithms of addiction always won out. Its not your fault. Alone you cant stop it. Together, we will. We have a plan. Join us. Fisher Investments in this market, youll find Fisher Investments is different than other Money Managers. Join us. other Money Manager different how . Arent we all just looking for the hottest stocks . Fisher Investments nope. We use diversified strategies to position our clients portfolios for their longterm goals. other Money Manager but you still sell investments that generate high commissions for you, right . Fisher Investments no, we dont sell commission products. Were a fiduciary, obligated to act in our clients best interest. other Money Manager so when do you make more money, only when your clients make more money . Fisher Investments yep. We do better when our clients do better. At Fisher Investments, were clearly different. A devastated zone, that is how Hawaii Governor describes the hardest Hit Community as crews race against the time for fires burning on maui an the big island. Now the second deadliest fire event in u. S. History left 55 people confirmed dead. First responders fear that number will grow. New drone video shows the scale of destruction in lahaina. The fire now 80 contained on the today show and the description of the aftermath. It felt like a war zone. And it was still fresh. I could see trees burning, i could feel the smoke. I could feel the heat. And it was basically like another pandemic to explain it. It was a ghost town, very apocalyptic. Neighbors are now helping neighbors respond to the humanitarian crisis on the ground at this hour there is a need for the basics, food, and water and even baby diapers. Joining us now for the american red cross, jonathan mcnamara, the biggest need at this hour, what could folks do . Well right now for the red cross, our number one priority is supporting the emergency shelters that had over 2100 people seeking shelters from the red cross and our partners while on top of making sure that we could surge physical resources like the ones behind me but volunteers from across our system. Im based in virginia, we have six leave from the last 24 hours and theyll join with a hundreds of colleagues to do the physical relief but to support the disaster side of this. When youre dealing with a traumatic situation, the extensive loss of life and people looking for loved ones, this is an anxiety and fear that comes into this situation. So we want to make sure that were comprehensive and nimble to adapt over the days and weeks and months to come. To that point about the emotional toll. Hawaiis governor said people in lahaina could return to their homes and for some people that means discovering they do not have a home to return to. How does the red cross help people in this moment, not only with the physical resources but also coping with the processing of just how much rebuilding is ahead . Well, i could say somebody who deployed to the California Wildfires and stood with people near their homes, this is an unbelievably traumatic situation that requires Supreme Court from multiple organizations on the ground. When you talk to the families about the experience and empathize with them and just in many cases be a shoulder to cry on, you see them take a deep breath and could help them start to process it. From red cross, well connect them to the full Resources Available from our organization but also help them navigate through the other organizations, help them interact with fema and other groups surging resources into this community. This is a long process and were committed to being there for as long as these people need. I could say that we have a strong base of red cross voluntaries on the ground in hawaii. Many people are neighbors would are helping to respond to this. We have some volunteers who were impacted by the fires and still willing to serve. That highlights the commitment of the red cross and our volunteers. Over 90 of our work force are volunteers. And that is who is helping people in cheese communities. These fires are unpredictable and fast moving and evacuation orders were not sent out in time. And now that youve seen it in california and now seeing it in hawaii, as we learn to accept these extreme weather events due to Climate Change . This could change in a matter of seconds and not give people warning. What i will say from the red cross perspective, there are still fires burning in the communities so if you are watching this on the ground in hawaii or may have Family Members and relatives in these or may have Family Members in the areas, its important to heed the warnings from Emergency Officials that are on the ground that are going out, but also just from your question about were seeing a higher volume of these types of events happening across the red cross system each and every year thats requiring us to make sure we have supplies like the ones behind me and volunteers recruited on an ongoing basis. This is happening in the middle of hurricane season. Were expecting to see storms for weeks to come. Had highlights the scope of the magnitude of damages in these areas, and more storms and events in the future. If your viewers are watching and want to help. Redcross. Org. We need additional volunteers to join our team. We know were going to have to send multiple waves of volunteers, and hurricanes that may impact the u. S. And other events occurring across the country. Dealing with one weather related crisis as you prepared for another. That is the moment we find ourselves in. Thank you so much for spending time with us. Well be right back. H for spendg time with us well be right back. Lowering chl can be hard. Diets and exercise add to the struggle. Today, its possible to go from struggle to Cholesterol Success with leqvio. With a statin, leqvio is proven to lower bad cholesterol by over 50 and keep it low with two doses a year. Common side effects were injection site reaction, joint pain, urinary tract infection, diarrhea, chest cold, pain in legs or arms, and shortness of breath. Ask your doctor about twiceyearly leqvio. Lower. Longer. Leqvio. Known as a loving parent. Lower. Longer. Leqvio. Known for lessons that matter. Known for lessons that matter. Known for being a free spirit. No one wants to be known for cancer, but a treatment can be. Keytruda is known to treat cancer, fdaapproved for 16 types of cancer. One of those cancers is advanced nonsquamous, nonsmall cell lung cancer, where keytruda is approved to be used with certain chemotherapies as your first treatment if you do not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. Keytruda can cause your Immune System to attack healthy parts of your body during or after treatment. This may be severe and lead to death. See your doctor right away if you have cough, shortness of breath, chest pain, diarrhea, severe stomach pain, severe nausea or vomiting, headache, light sensitivity, eye problems, irregular heartbeat, extreme tiredness, constipation, dizziness or fainting, changes in appetite, thirst, or urine, confusion, memory problems, muscle pain or weakness, fever, rash, itching, or flushing. There may be other side effects. Tell your doctor about all your medical conditions, including Immune System problems, if youve had or plan to have an organ or stem cell transplant, received Chest Radiation or have a nervous system problem. Depending on the type of cancer, keytruda may be used alone or in combination with other treatments, and is also being studied in hundreds of clinical trials, exploring ways to treat even more types of cancer. Its tru. Keytruda from merck. See all the types of Cancer Keytruda is known for at keytruda. Com and ask your doctor if keytruda could be right for you. Struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1 . Ask about vraylar. Because you are greater than your bipolar 1, and you can help take control of your symptoms with vraylar. Some medicines only treat the lows or highs. Vraylar treats depressive, acute manic, and mixed episodes of bipolar 1 in adults. Proven, fullspectrum relief for all bipolar 1 symptoms. And in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. Call your doctor about unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. Antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. Report fever, stiff muscles or confusion which may mean a lifethreatening reaction, or uncontrollable Muscle Movements which may be permanent. High blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, weight gain and high cholesterol may occur. Movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects. Sleepiness and stomach issues are also common. Side effects may not appear for several weeks. Ask about vraylar and learn how abbvie could help you save. When my doctor gave me breztri for my copd things changed for me. Breztri gave me better breathing, symptom improvement, and reduced flareups. Breztri wont replace a Rescue Inhaler for sudden breathing problems. It is not for asthma. Tell your doctor if you have a Heart Condition or high Blood Pressure before taking it. Dont take breztri more than prescribed. Breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. Call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. Ask your doctor about breztri. Were following more Breaking News at this hour. Since we have been on the air, news has broken of another big shakeup at fox corporation, the Parent Company of fox news. It has been nearly four months since fox agreed to pay Dominion Voting Systems a whopping 787 million settlement in the historic defamation suit. Now the New York Times is reporting that fox corporations chief legal officer is leaving the in what is being described as a major shakeup. If that name sounds familiar, dinhs name was over the mountain of discovery made public in that case, discovery that was so damming it helped hasten a historic settlement. Jeremy peters writes, quote, mr. Dinh gave what some considered flawed advice during the dominion suit, he insisted that fox was Firm Legal Footing and could take the case if need be all the way to the Supreme Court where he believed the company would prevail on First Amendment grounds. Were going to take a electric at how the expresident is learning how expensive it is to be indicted multiple times and at the same time. The next hour of Deadline White House starts right after this quick break. Adline white house starts right after this quick break. Uh, yea. I have to watch my neighbors Nfl Sunday Ticket. josh allen its not your best plan. But you know what is . Myplan from verizon. Switch now and theyll give you Nfl Sunday Ticket from youtubetv, on them. hero fan this plan is amazing josh allen another amazing plan, backing away from here very slowly. fan 1 that was josh allen. fan 2 mmhm. vo for a limited time get Nfl Sunday Ticket from youtubetv on us. A 449 value. Plus, get a free Samsung Galaxy z flip5. Only on verizon. Im very greedy. Im a greedy person. I shouldnt tell you that. Ive always p been greedy. I love money, right. Its called opm, i do that all the time in business, other peoples money. Theres nothing like doing things with other peoples money. I love other peoples money. Were going to work hard. Hi again, everybody, it is 5 00 in new york. He has never been shy about it, has he . Donald trump said it himself, opm, other peoples money. But now for the First Time Since he won the republican nomination seven years ago, the New York Times Reports Trump has responsibly seriously about the possibility of putting his own money into this race. Why . Much of that opm, as he calls it, is being used to pay for his criminal defense. Today, as we said, his lawyers were in court opposite federal prosecutors to go over Discovery Rules and limits if any on what trump can say about the case. From the times, new Financial Reports show that the former president s various political committees and the super pac backing him, views roughly 0. 30 of every dollar spent so far this career on legal related costs. The total amounts to 27 million in legal fees and other investigation related bills in the First Six Months of 2023. Thats according to a New York Times analysis of federal records. That amount includes payments to eight law firms getting more than A Million Bucks each, just in the first half of this year, and that amount could balloon as trumps cases head to actual courtrooms. The times notes trumps complex political orbit is spending more than its taking in, tapping into money it raised years ago, an unusual trajectory this far out from an election. Predictably trump is upset, suggesting on social media, resources into ads and rallies will have to be spent fighting radical thugs, which is a rich thing to say, given its the reason hes in the first place. That backwards response is permeating the Republican Party. Listen to the accusation congressman byron donald made. To a broader perspective, what the Department Of Justice is really doing is they want to bleed donald trump dry. They want him to use up so Many Campaign resources with these terrible phony indictments that its going to be hard for him to mount a challenge for the presidency, and for the American People, understand what this means. This means that the Democrat Party and joe biden are using the power of government to basically turn the screws on their political opponent. The irony hits you like a shelf of the face. Falsely accusing joe biden of Subverting Democracy by Holding Donald trump accountable for Subverting Democracy. A modern Republican Party where everything is made up and the points dont party. Luke broadwater, Voting Rights attorney and founder of democracy alias, and msnbc political analyst, tim miller. Luke, we have your New York Times colleagues to thank for this reporting. First, get us more acquainted with just how cash strapped trumps orbit is right now . Well, he is raising a lot of money, so these indictments have been a boon to him from a fundraising perspective, but his problem is 33 of its going immediately out the door to pay for lawyers, and his legal cases are just piling up. I mean, were going to have probably another one next week in georgia and so hes going to have four very serious criminal cases against him. Hes going to have a lot of very high priced attorneys and hes going to be spending not his own money, right, but the donations from a lot of small dollar donors across the country who are sending him money that is going right into the pockets of these, you know, well heeled lawyers as they work to try to keep donald trump out of jail. And he is spending more money than hes taking in right now, which is not a good place for any campaign to be in this situation, but every time theres a new charge or a new court case against him, he can go right back to that Outrage Machine and bring in those dollars from those americans all across the country. Right, and i know you say it for illustrative points, the money does not go from small dollar donors directly into the hands of attorneys. Talk us through the complicated mesh of political entities that is intaking that cash and then spending it where. Where is all of this money coming from . Right. Well, you know, there are a number of he has the Save America Pac, he has a number of pacs that he uses to pay these lawyers, right, its not that donald trump himself is paying the lawyers at all. So hes relying on donations. They come in generally to these pacs and they go out to his attorneys. A little bit more about his bodies, the Save America Pac, take a listen to what the January 6th Committee taught us about the pac. The claims that the election was stolen were so successful, President Trump and his allies raised 250 million, nearly 100 million in the first week after the election. On november 9th, 2020, President Trump created a separate entity called the Save America Pac. Most of the money raised went to this newly created pac, not to election related litigation. The select committee discovered that the Save America Pac made millions of dollars of contributions to pro trump organizations including 1 million to trump Chief Of Staff mark meadows charitable foundation. 1 million to the America First policy institute, a conservative organization which employs several former Trump Administration officials, 204,857 to the trump hotel collection, and over 5 million to event strategies inc. , the company that ran President Trumps January 6th Rally on the ellipse. As we understand, Special Counsel jack smith scrutinizing the Save America Pac, trying to figure out if trump advisers knew he lost, before they were raising funds about nonexistent voter laws. You have a pac paying for a Legal Defense while also being part of the case itself. I wonder if you have ever heard of that happening at this scale. No, nothing like this has ever happened before. Lets just be clear. We have never had a president of the United States whos tried to overturn democratic elections. We have never had a president of the United States indicted once, no less three times, on his way to four times, and we have never had a president as shameless and as backed up by a Shameless Party as donald trump and the Republican Party as they milk and bilk these donors into this pac. Remember, the beginning of this pac as that segment pointed out is to actually raise money to contest the outcome of the election. Well, the money didnt go to that. The next purpose of the pac would be to support republican candidates, and it appears the money didnt really much go to that. Its really going to enrich donald trump and his allies, and that is really, really an absolute, another indictment of where donald trump and the republicans stand today. Mark, does jack smith have the power to freeze those funds . So its a good question. I mean, theres no question that jack smith from what weve read in the newspaper is investigating whether or not there was fraud in the collection of those funds, and if he finds that there was criminal fraud, then he could bring a forfeiture action to try to forfeit and freeze and forfeit those funds. Whether hes going to do that or not, i dont know. Right now hes got his hand full with two criminal cases, whether he expands that or brings another one or expands the d. C. One to include allegations of mail fraud and wire fraud, we have to wait and see. Tim miller, i want to read you more from the times piece, trump aligned groups who also paid legal bills for some white house aides who testified in the congressional mr. Trumps advisers have denied the allegation. Mr. Trump has said the groups are simply trying to help friends and allies who have been caught up in politically motivated investigations chlgt i mean i mean, tim, Cassidy Hutchinson comes to mind for me, im sure you. She had a trump lawyer, before firing that lawyer and suggesting on the record he had tried to influence her testimony. That lawyer, he has denied that allegation. I wonder, as you trace that money, if that is a concern for you in this case . I mean, of course. They use this as a slush fund to influence votes. And Sarah Matthews in addition to Cassidy Hutchinson who testified before the January 6th Committee. To marks point, none of this money appears to be going to the stated purpose of this pac. And, you know, this is now very cautiously being pointed out, you know, by a sum of trumps opponents, as i saw last night on twitter, x, whatever theyre calling it now, the Desantis Super pac was attacking Trumps Campaign manager, his chief strategist over the amount of money going to lawyers, but, you know, this comes like way too lately. And after they brought in nine figures to go to trumps various legal bills, and to be used, no doubt, to influence people in his orbit, and try to prevent them from speaking out about various indictments. I wonder for you, given the context, the history of what we know here, when you see that trump aligned groups continue to pay legal bills for, quote, friends and allies, what that signals to you. Look, i think its really troubling. I think its something that jack smiths working on getting to the bottom of. Because its not like, you know, you sometimes have a situation which theres a corporation. Its executors or its employees wind up before grand juries and they pay the legal bills. But they do it on a pretty agnostic basis. This appears to be the legal fees are being paid, sort of on a selective basis, and so the question is are the legal bills being selected to be paid based on whether they are offering favorable or unfavorable testimony to the former president. And i think that that is something along with some of the conflicts around the lawyers and the lawyers having lawyers and the lawyers having clients who are adverse to other lawyers, and other clients, i think this is something jack smith is going to have to figure out. One of those novels where you keep having to flip to the front of the book to understand how all of the characters are related to one another. Tim, no surprise here, like clock work just this morning, Trump Campaign sent out a fundraising email, all caps as they do, election interference, and heres what his former ag bill barr said about trump taking money from supporters and then using it on legal fees. Yeah, i find that sort of nauseating. I mean, this guy claims to be a multibillionaire, and, you know, he goes out and raises money from hard working people, small donors, and tells them this is to defend america and to, you know, take care of the election. He didnt provide any significant support during the 22 elections, and a lot of this money seems to be going to his legal fees. Tim, he calls it nauseating. To me its just a reminder of the grift knows no bounds, what do you make of it . Dont make me defend bill barr or agree with bill barr. Thats kind of nauseating to me. But, you know, hes right on the merits. And this is something that i think i have been talking about a lot, i do think it gets lost, and trumps opponents in the republican primary have been inept at making this case, which is that donald trump says, you know, that hes fighting for the forgotten americans, for the, you know, for the people that have been left behind, and that is the opposite of true. Hes robbing them. He is taking their money on false pretenses, in a lot of case there have been New York Times reports that they dont realize they have prechecked the button, that means theyre taking money out of their account every month. Many people dont realize that. Theyre robbing people of money, and giving them false promises, like they did when they showed up to the mall on january 6th, many believed the lies that donald trump told. Some people are in jail because they believed the lies that donald trump told. Some are dead because they believed the lies donald trump told. Nauseating is an understatement. When we sit here with attorneys and talk through the various trump Legal Defenses it becomes pretty clear that most of them are not actual Legal Defenses based in law but rather cases that are meant to be tried in the court of public opinion. There are a set of Talking Points. When i hear byron donald repeating that mantra, trying to make this about a weaponized doj, is that what you are hearing from other republicans on the hill . Is that the way they are trying to spin what is happening here . Yeah, they all have the same Talking Points. The key here is that donald trump has essentially commingled his campaign with his Legal Defense. And so theyre almost indistinguishable from the others, so you have lawyers who go on tv and they act as pundits. You have, you know, all of this stuff going on. Typically lawyers act in a very restrained way. They try to keep their evidence to themselves. They try to keep their strategies to themselves, and they plot things out quietly of how theyre going to defend him. Here you have basically the entire Republican Party lining up and repeating the various Talking Points that the campaign is coming up with, including his own legal team. And so what ive seen is, you know, you would think that with the former president facing potentially four criminal indictments that there would be a wide open race here where anybody could win. Instead, we have seen much more of the Party Falling in lock step behind them. Every time he gets charged, it seems he grips the party tighter. And they come out with a new set of Talking Points. Trumps lawyers were in court today. Im wondering if youre wearing if there was an advancement on the story, in a faceoff, the Discovery Rules, anything having to do with the Save America Pac . Yeah, look, i dont know whether any of it involved Save America Pac, but i want to emphasize one point which is that donald trump is in a lot of trouble. He is in a lot of trouble. He is facing serious Criminal Charges, and the idea that his lawyers are spending their time making ridiculous tv, rather than preparing for a criminal trial tells you everything about the strength of their defense, and the fact that donald trump is not paying for that defense, but rather continues to essentially bilk and lie to his Grass Roots Supporters so they send their money in to pay for these Criminal Defense Lawyers to go on tv and spread this disinformation is really tragic. And hopefully jack smith will get to the bottom of it. He told us he loves other peoples money. Luke broadwater, marc elias, tim miller, thank you so much for starting us off this hour. When we return, the big victory for Abortion Rights is Fueling Homes for a wider path to election in 2024. Voters time and again, rejecting the gop assault on reproductive freedoms, giving democrats more chances to win in the year ahead. That is next. Also ahead, it is being called an academic bomb, africanamerican leaders in florida speaking out loudly against their states new Black History Standards that teach the benefits of slavery. The same ones ron desantis keeps defending. And later, the back story behind yesterdays decision behind the Supreme Court to hit pause on a massive 6 billion Opioid Settlement with Purdue Pharma and the Sackler Family. Why the biden Justice Department is objecting to a deal that was approved by its predecessors. Deadline white house continues after a quick break. Do not go anywhere. Tinues after a quick break. Do not go anywhere im saving with liberty mutual, mom. They customize your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. You could save 700 dollars just by switching. Ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. On the top of the pile oh. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Being middle class right now, its tough making ends meet for sure. Republicans in congress say if we just cut taxes even more for the biggest corporations the money will eventually someday trickle trickle down to you. Right. Joe biden would rather just stop those corporations from charging so damn much. Capping the cost of drugs like insulin. Cracking down on Surprise Medical Bills and all those crazy junk fees. Theres more work to do. Tell the president to keep lowering costs for middle class families. Book a work trip. Earn onekeycash. Shake some hands. Do not forget to laugh. [laughing] book a getawayfromwork trip. Use onekeycash. Order some sides. Do not disturb. Join one key to earn and use rewards across expedia, hotels. Com, and vrbo. I remember when i first started flying, and we would experience turbulence. I would watch the Flight Attendants. If theyre not nervous, then im not going to be nervous. Financially, im the Flight Attendant in that situation. The relief that comes over people once they know theyve got a guide to help them through, i definitely feel privileged to be in that position. So, youve got the power of xfinity at home. Now take it outside with xfinity mobile. I definitely feel privileged to be in that position. Like speed . Its the Fastest Mobile Service around. With the best price for two lines of unlimited. Only 30 bucks a line per month. Thats hundreds in savings a year when you wave bye to the other guys. All on the most reliable 5g network nationwide. You really shouldnt walk out the front door without it. Switch today at xfinitymobile. Com. What is it that you have on your mind when you wake up every morning . Our democracy. Rev, i think everything is at stake right now. When a democracy is in tact, it strengthens the people, it protects and fights for fundamental freedoms, individual rights, its a fight for order against chaos. It strengthens. Dr. Kings only granddaughters is growing up with less freedoms than you and i had. I know. First time a generation may not have a womans right to choose. That was Vice President Kamala Harris speaking with al sharpton on the state of the 2024 election, it comes amid a reimagining of the 2024 electoral map with advisers close to the president looking to expand their targets ahead of the election after voters have shown time and time again they will show up to protect Abortion Rights. Politico reporting that, quote, people close to the president believe that voters enthusiasm about Abortion Rights could unlock new roads to a new term. Joining you are conversation, host of Politics Nation here on msnbc, the reverend al sharpton, former congressman from florida, and msnbc political analyst, david jolly. Tell us more about that conversation you had with the Vice President. I wanted to talk with her, you know, were planning a big march and rally on august 25th, which is the weekend of the 60th Anniversary of the 63 march where dr. King made his speech, i have a droem. Dream. Were doing at it at lincoln memorial, and i wanted to talk with the Vice President because she symbolizes the progress made from 63. Its the first woman to be elected president , i mean Vice President. And the first woman of color to be Vice President. So she represented the dream and part of why they marched. But at the same time as she said, were still faced with challenges that has deferred the dream. Hate crimes are up for blacks, jews, gays, latinos. Were seeing people trying to edit black history. Were seeing an erosion of peoples rights to have access to voting, and for her to say as one who is a direct product of that march, that blacks and whites did in 63 and that blacks and whites are going to do in 23, that she wakes up in the morning as Vice President until the official residence of the Vice President of the United States worried about democracy shows why we need to be on guard and march and vote. Because we should not have those issues. We do. I want to bring former maryland congresswoman, and msnbc contributor Donna Edwards take on this conversation. I want it get your take on the reporting by politico which reads, biden aides believe North Carolina where a 12week abortion ban has gone into effect is a legitimate pickup opportunity and no longer democratic fools gold. After this weeks election in ohio where voters defeated a proposal designed to restrict Abortion Rights, a handful in bidens orbit have begun to dream a little bit better thinking that state could maybe, just maybe, be in play. First of all, i am struck here, donna, by the fact that youve got republicans trying to slug it out in a primary with no regard for whether or not the positions they take in their primary are actually going to make them electable in a general election. You have democrats who are actually looking on the horizon toward the general and thinking, what is our electoral path to victory here, when they talk about North Carolina, when they talk about ohio, do you believe those are states that democrats can put in play . Well, i think absolutely. Look, im from North Carolina. I spent a lot of time in the state. And i think that democrats are smart to think about how to expand this map, and what we saw from the results in ohio and kansas and wisconsin across the country is that Abortion Rights are a motivating issue for americans, for women, for young people across the board, and so i think that democrats are smart to make sure that they stay on a message of the fact, and it is really clear in the republican primary, Democrats Support Rights and republicans do not. It is a really stark difference, and i think its going to allow for electoral opportunities that may not have existed before. David, i want to get your take on something that sean hannity said. Take a look. I think the American People, and i consider myself pro life, i believe in the sanctity of life, but i think politically that there is republicans have got to say, as bill clinton once said, i never thought i would quote him, rare legal and id add the word very early in a pregnancy, that seems to be politically where the country is. Maybe im wrong. But well see. That vote in ohio was pretty sobering. David jolly, make sure that we dont think all the fox news hosts are saying. Laura ingraham called overturning roe v. Wade the greatest achievement since ending the cold war. Why cant republicans figure out a cohesive, coherent message on this. Why are they trying to send their base in the direction of a national ban . Because theyre following their passions and not looking dispassionately at the dana. The National Data overwhelmingly is time and time again, coming out of dobbs. When we see state level referendums that started with kansas after the Dobbs Decision and the ohio measure this past week. When you look at special elections where the issue of a womans choice is put up in front of voters, voters continue to reject the republican position and i think what is interesting, sean hannity quoted bill clinton, he could quote a republican. When bush 43 was asked about this in 2000, he said, listen, i think the way to approach this is by changing hearts and minds, and i suppose that could be true for either side of this debate. What George Bush 43 recognized is politically, many of the hardened positions of the Republican Party are out of step with where general election voters are. This is a deeply passionate issue for so many people. All you have to do is dispassionately look at the data and it tells you the American People prefer a Roe Framework over a dobbs framework, and republicans keep falling on their faces trying to go the other direction. Rev, just last week when i interviewed julia chavez rodriguez, we talked about the role that Vice President harris is likely to play specifically on questions like reproductive rights and freedoms, and i wonder as you sat with her, as you spoke with her, if you got a sense of the role that she is going to play and also what she sees as what it is that she can bring to this ticket . Did you get a sense, as we learned from this political reporting, that democrats actually believe the field is widening . I think that she plays a vital role. One, i think that she in and of herself with many people trying to push the issue, she is a woman. When she talks about a womans right to choose, we talk about gun control, and we talk about the fact that we cant even get a Background Check passed through the congress. She is black when we talk about inequality, hate crimes, Blacks And Jews and others. She has fought and built coalitions. Shes One Of The Best if not the best representatives of this administration, and can break down with Inflation Reduction Bills and with the covid19 recovery and with the Infrastructure Bill meant for communities that have been neglected because she represents them, and i think shes determined to do it. I mean, i saw yesterday morning, energetic and focused and determined, and i think a lot of it is because a lot of what when you watch the full interview, she brought a private office, she never allowed cameras, she showed a picture of a mother who marched in 63 around racial strife in birmingham, alabama, and a lot of this is shes seeing the same rights her mother fought for at risk today. Were under attack. The Supreme Court just ended affirmative action. You have people going after groups in atlanta for getting funding for young black women. She sees a lot of what all of us have spent our Lifetime Fight to go maintain, being taken away, and youll see in the interview, going to say, its not going to happen on my watch. Do you think republicans are still underestimating just how angry voters are about having their rights taken away or are they very much aware, and is that part of the reason why instead of actually just trying to win with the rules in place, theyre trying to change the rules . Yeah, look, i actually dont think that republicans quite understand how motivating an issue this is, and the passion that voters have. Keep in mind that the majority of americans actually grew up under roe. They didnt know any different. So when republicans go down this path, maybe playing to their base, they greatly underestimate the power of the issue as a single issue, motivating voters and so, you know, you just have to look at these elections. When i saw in wisconsin of a Supreme Court race that nothing else was on the ballot, and lines and lines of young people waiting to vote because they were voting on Abortion Rights. When you see that happening, you saw it happening in kansas, you look at what happened in ohio where voters were very smart and savvy about what was underlying that amendment, and so going in to november 2024, i think that President Biden is right to lean into this, to be the defender of womens rights, and the protector of rights, and that also then allows them a window to talk about his economic agenda. Be sure to watch reverend sharptons complete interview with Vice President Kamala Harris that is on Politics Nation saturday at 5 00 p. M. Eastern, right here on msnbc. When we return, the anger and outrage over floridas new black history curriculum, you know, the one that says some enslaved people benefits personally, reached a crescendo last night. Were going to show you what happened in miami after a quick break. Stay with us. Happened in miami after a quick break. Stay with us family is just very important. Shes my sister and, we depend on each other a lot. Shes the rock of the family. Shes the person who holds everything together. Its a battle, you know im going to be there. Keytruda and chemotherapy meant treating my cancer with two different types of medicine. In a clinical trial, keytruda and chemotherapy was proven to help people live longer than chemotherapy alone. Keytruda is used to treat more patients with advanced lung cancer than any other immunotherapy. Keytruda may be used with certain chemotherapies as your first treatment if you have advanced nonsquamous, nonsmall cell lung cancer and you do not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. Keytruda can cause your Immune System to attack healthy parts of your body during or after treatment. This may be severe and lead to death. See your doctor right away if you have cough, shortness of breath, chest pain, diarrhea, severe stomach pain, severe nausea or vomiting, headache, light sensitivity, eye problems, irregular heartbeat, extreme tiredness, constipation, dizziness or fainting, changes in appetite, thirst, or urine, confusion, memory problems, muscle pain or weakness, fever, rash, itching, or flushing. There may be other side effects. Tell your doctor about all your medical conditions, including Immune System problems, if youve had or plan to have an organ or stem cell transplant, received Chest Radiation, or have a nervous system problem. It feels good to be here for them. Living longer is possible. Its tru. Keytruda from merck. Ask your doctor about keytruda. josh allen is this your plan to watch the game today . hero fan i have to watch my neighbors Nfl Sunday Ticket. Keytruda from merck. josh allen its not your best plan. But you know what is . Myplan from verizon. vo for a limited time get Nfl Sunday Ticket from youtubetv on us. A 449 value. Plus, get a free Samsung Galaxy z flip5. Only on verizon. Okay everyone, our mission is complete balanced nutrition. Together we provide nutrients to support immune, muscle, bone, and heart health. Yaaay woo hoo ensure with 25 vitamins and minerals and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. Power e trades awardwinning trading app makes trading easier. With its customizable options chain, easytouse tools and Paper Trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. E trade from morgan stanley. Power e trades easytouse tools make complex trading less complicated. Custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an Earnings Tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. E trade from morgan stanley. And although invites went out, there are some individuals who did not come, but you all came because your children are that important. And not only are our children important, our children understanding and learning actual factual history is important. Its not just africanamerican children that need to know their history. Right. Its other people that need to know africanamerican history, and then they wont say dumb stuff like black people benefitted from slavery. That was last night in florida where many students returned to school just this week for more than two hours, africanamerican state and local officials railed against floridas new White Washed Education Standards at a powerful town hall. They opened the floor for parents, teachers and students to voice their concerns including over the new instruction that slavery could be quote, beneficial. Lawmakers also used the town hall to plan action to fight back, and they called out the noticeable absences of Governor Ron Desantis and floridas lawmaker turned Education Commissioner, who chose not to attend after he initially agreed to do so. Even though he could have learned a lot from it. He was, after all, the sponsor of desantiss law against quote wokeness, that demanded exactly the outrageous and widely criticized education overhaul. Were back with the rev and donna, and david. Your reaction to the words from the lawmakers from the Community Showing up. This is happening right now, students in florida, they go back to school this week, and this is what theyre going to face in their classrooms. The door is open in florida this week, and they are not going to teach them the whole story. Its a distortion of the american story, and it is to miseducate children intentionally for a governor who wants to use this super divisive strategy to run for president. He not only has done this with the schools, hes dismissed a black State Attorney for no reason. Shell be on Politics Nation this weekend just because she disagrees with him. And to race bait as your Campaign Slogan and philosophy and strategy is something that is beneath the dignity of the office. You know, one of the things that was true even in the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s, when i was just a kid watching it is you had white republicans. Helped to get the civil rights bill through the congress, and johnson could talk to republicans. Mitt romneys father, George Romney was a key figure in the Republican Party out of michigan, helped with civil rights. These people are not only the republicans of today not involved in civil rights, people like desantis are making their platform to be anticivil rights. And i think that this is an absolute disgrace. I agree with the speaker that says not only black kids need to know black history, whites and others need to know it so they will understand why theres a disproportionate amount. Without that, theyll think, were doubly unemployed or we dont have the certain Education Skills because theres something wrong with our genetics. No, theres something wrong with the history that we are correcting and we can correct it but we have to be honest about it. The implications hit students and educators, but there are a bunch of adults who are implicated in this. This is from the Secretary Treasurer of the American Federation of teachers who called the Education Commissioner a coward for not showing up. Take a listen. Ron desantis knew that this was going on. Manny diaz knew that this was going on. They know how important this is to the black community. They know that they have thrown an academic bomb in our community, and they know that they should have been here tonight to face you. If youre going to do those kinds of things, you ought to have enough gums to be here and speak your truth. They have defended the new standards but they couldnt show up. They couldnt do it to their faces, what does that tell you, donna . Yeah, the problem is that they defended these standards but theyve done it out on the campaign trail. Thats what ron desantis has done. Hes using black people and black history as a cudgel in his president ial campaign, and i do think that it is both sad but also very cowardly that neither ron desantis nor his commissioner of Education Diaz could show up and really face the music. Really face the parents whose children are being impacted by this ridiculous, ridiculous decision on curriculum. Ron desantis has decided that hes going to use this as his platform toward the presidency. But in doing so, not only will he alienate black voters, of course, i dont know that he cares about that, but he alienates other voters too, people who know their childrens education should not be used like this. David jolly, you and i have talked many times about ron desantis, the bravery of ron desantis continue to go defend these, also trying to make it look like he had nothing to do with them. You have seen the same polling i do. The quote unquote, war on woke, which doesnt mean anything or make sense. He has overplayed his hand. Its not actually what voters care about in a republican primary or in a general election. Thats right. Sometimes on Critical Issues of race, gender, choice, personal liberties, politicians, particularly white republican politicians need to speak less and listen more, and what you saw last night was a ron desantis and others unwilling to listen. Perhaps hell listen to his own primary candidates in the race for the gop nomination for president. Tim scott said to ron desantis what slavery is about separating families, mutilating humans and raping women, but ron desantis wants to defend it and suggest theres a silver lining. I think The Dark Side of this is how this position in floridas curriculum truly represents Ron Desantiss ethos. His entire premise of the stop woke act, legislation enacted in the state of florida was designed to say that white people shouldnt feel guilty for slavery and other conditions of the past, an absolution for White America, if you will, which is why the brand that ron desantis is running to represent White America has now stuck on him, and the importance of us talking about this is should he become the republican nomination, this needs to be his brand and the question put in front of america, is ron desantis the type of figure that we are willing as a country to take us back 50 years as opposed to look forward to the next 50. Rev, i have less than 30 seconds less. I want to connect dots. You were talking with Vice President Kamala Harris about the fact that dr. Martin luther king jr. s granddaughter will have less rights than her parents had. Not just rights. Shes going to be raised in a generation where in classrooms they are not telling the truth about our history. We are going backwards in so many ways, how then do we fight to move forward . We fight the way we learned from them to fight. Change the laws, by changing the lawmakers. We have to vote. We have to make sure we put people in office that do not try to divide the country. And give us myths, but they will give it to us straight so we can straighten out the country. Thats how we correct it. Thats how they corrected in their generation. Thats what we must rise to the occasion today. Reverend al sharpton as always, it is great to see you not just on saturday and sunday when you and i spent a lot of time together. Im so excited to watch that entire interview on your 5 00 p. M. Show tomorrow. Donna edwards, david jolly, as always, thank you both so much. Ahead for us, the back story behind the Supreme Courts decision yesterday to block a massive settlement with Purdue Pharma. The company largely blamed for this countrys opioid crisis. Were going to have that after a very short break. Stay with us. Ave that after a very short break stay with us vo sail through the heart of historic cities and unforgettable scenery with viking. Unpack once, and get closer to iconic landmarks, local life, and cultural treasures. Because when you experience europe on a viking longship, youll spend less time getting there and more time being there. Viking. Exploring the world in comfort. burke a new car loses about ten percent of its value the minute you drive off the lot. Or more. Thats why farmers new car replacement pays to replace it with a new one of the same make and model. Get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum theres never a dull moment for the nelsons. Fifth generation montana ranchers. Theres a story in every piece of land. Run with us on a john deere gator™ xuv and start telling yours. Life, diabetes. Each day is a unique blend of going, doing, and living. Glucerna protein smart with 30 grams of protein to help keep you moving. Uniquely designed with carbsteady to help manage blood sugar response. Glucerna, bring on the day. When my doctor gave me breztri for my copd things changed for me. Breztri gave me better breathing, symptom improvement, and reduced flareups. Breztri wont replace a Rescue Inhaler for sudden breathing problems. It is not for asthma. Tell your doctor if you have a Heart Condition or high Blood Pressure before taking it. Dont take breztri more than prescribed. Breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. Call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. Ask your doctor about breztri. In what could be a major victory for victims of the Opioid Epidemic as well as states ravaged by its effects, the Supreme Court put a hold on a bankruptcy deal with Purdue Pharma, as well as the Sackler Family who owned that company. Nbc news reporting the justices in a brief order with no dissenting votes noted blocked an Appeals Court decision that allowed the bankruptcy to go forward. The Sackler Family had agreed to pay 6 billion that could be used to settle opioid related claims but only in return for a complete release from any liability in future cases. The New York Times adding that the government said the plan allowed members of the Sackler Family to take advantage of Legal Protections meant for debtors in financial distress. Not for billionaires. The bankruptcy deal was announced by trump Deputy Attorney general Jeffrey Rosen just two weeks before the 2020 election. Lets bring in former New York Times reporter, barry meyer, author of the book painkiller, empire of deceit and the origin of americas Opioid Epidemic epidemic , released as a limited series on netflix yesterday. Barry, your first reaction when you heard about the Supreme Courts pause . Well, i was stunned to be frank. You have a situation where the sacklers engineered a deal where they could coat tail on to this bankruptcy deal, and its very unusual that you have a family that doesnt declare bankruptcy itself being able to take advantage of it. And Companies Like Purdue Pharma have been very successful at manipulating the legal system to their benefit over these past two decades that i have been covering the story. And its possible that the sacklers have finally run into that inevitable brick wall. When you talk about covering the story for the past two decades, you first covered the potential for oxycontin abuse in February Of 2001 with an article entitled quote cancer painkillers pose new abuse threat that said in part, oxycontin is often covered under health care plans, the abuse of the drug which has been tracked over 18 months has set off pharmacy breakins, emergency room visits and arrests of physicians and other health care workers. Law enforcement officials have cited a troubling number of cases in maine, maryland, ohio, pennsylvania, virginia, kentucky, and west virginia. Drug abusers quickly discovered that crushing the appeal immediately released its narcotic. Dealers shopped for doctors who may be busy, slip shot or quietly cooperative, and they obtained multiple prescriptions in several areas, using the same ailing or not so ailing patients the police say. This sums up so much of the key fundamentals of the opioid crisis, of course, talk to us about why it took so long for the dangers of this drug to become Public Knowledge and for its use to be severely curtailed. You know, its remarkable. Theres a new edition of my book that came out in connection with the netflix series, but it came out in 2003, and at that time, we could have stopped this epidemic. We could have stopped it in 2005, in 2010, in 2015. At any point in time if the people that we rely on to to protect our health, lawmakers, politicians, professional medical organizations, had stood up and said, enough. We need to stop this. But they either buckled or cowed or bought off by drug Companies Like purdue and other opioidmakers. Representatives of the Sackler Family appealed to the New York Times to stop you from covering the story back in the early 2000s. They also hired notorious trump ally Rudy Giuliani to help exert influence on their behalf. Talk about how it is that they used the system to continue selling this drug, to avoid legal and financial consequences for two decades now . You know, this drug is very valuable. Its a very valuable drug for cancer patients, for people with chronic pain. This isnt a drug that should be withdrawn from the market, but the only way purdue could make billions of dollars from this drug is by promoting it for everyday pain. Back pain, dental pain, sports injury pain. They were upset that we were calling attention to their irresponsible, and as it turned out, criminal marketing procedures. And so they tried to stop me, they tried to essentially derail and destroy my career. And they did that with other people that took them on. And eventually, much like it did with the Tobacco Companies or asbestos producers, you know, their hired guns like Rudy Giuliani fell away and went off to plow more myrtle fields. That is one way of putting it. When we saw this hold from the Supreme Court come through, you were the first person we wanted to speak with. Thank you for spending time with us. Tourists tourists that turn into scientists. Tourists taking photos that are analyzed by ai. So researchers can help life underwater flourish. Hey, dad. I got an a on my book report. And i scored a goal on ashley. Thats cool. And i went for a walk in the woods and i didnt get a single flea or tick on me. You are just the best. Its probably because of that flea and tick medicine youve been ordering from chewy. We are very proud of you. You never stop surprising us, bailey. Right . Im great. You are great. I wonder if baileys ever done a book report. Be nice to your sister. What flea bit him . Pets arent just pets. Theyre more. This flea and tick season, trust americas 1 pet pharmacy. Chewy. Let Innovation Refunds help with your erc tax refund so you can improve your business however you see fit. Rosie used part of her refund to build an outdoor patio. Clink dr. Marshall used part of his refund to give his practice a facelift. Emily used part of her refund to buy. I run a wax museum. Let Innovation Refunds help you get started on your erc tax refund. Stop waiting. Go to innovationrefunds. Com you really got the brows. Im jayson. Im living with hiv and im on cabenuva. It helps keep me undetectable. For adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, longacting hiv treatment you can get every other month. Cabenuva is two injections, given by my healthcare provider, every other month. Its really nice not to have to rush home and take a daily hiv pill. Dont receive cabenuva if youre allergic to its ingredients or if you taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. Serious side effects include allergic reactions postinjection reactions, liver problems, and depression. If you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. Tell your doctor if you have liver problems or Mental Health concerns, and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. Some of the most common side effects include injectionsite reactions, fever, and tiredness. If you switch to cabenuva, attend all treatment appointments. Ready to treat your hiv in a different way . Ask your doctor about everyothermonth cabenuva. Every other month, and im good to go. Sometimes, the lows of bipolar depression feel darkest before dawn. With caplyta, theres a chance to let in the lyte™. Caplyta is proven to deliver significant relief across bipolar depression. Unlike some medicines that only treat bipolar i, caplyta treats both bipolar i and ii depression. And in clinical trials, Movement Disorders and weight gain were not common. Call your doctor about sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. Antidepressants may increase these risks in young adults. Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. Report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable Muscle Movements which may be life threatening or permanent. These arent all the serious side effects. Caplyta can help you let in the lyte™. Ask your doctor about caplyta find savings and support at caplyta. Com. Finally for us, we want to let our viewers know about a very special presentation coming up this weekend. On sunday, ari melber is going to use his Legal Expertise to dissect the various cases against former President Trump and what might be next. Hell be joined by msnbc legal analyst and veteran prosecutors Andrew Weissman and mary mccourt to offer insights. Prosecuting donald trump sunday, 10 00 p. M. Eastern on msnbc and streaming on peacock. Shingles. The rash can feel like pulsing, electric shocks and last for weeks. A pain so intense, you could miss out on family time. The virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. 50 years or older . Ask your doctor about shingles. Being middle class right now, its tough making ends meet for sure. Republicans in congress say if we just cut taxes even more for the biggest corporations the money will eventually someday trickle trickle down to you. Right. Joe biden would rather just stop those corporations from charging so damn much. Capping the cost of drugs like insulin. Cracking down on Surprise Medical Bills and all those crazy junk fees. Theres more work to do. Tell the president to keep lowering costs for middle class families. fan 1 there ya go thats what im talkin about lowering costs josh allen is this your plan to watch the game today . hero fan uh, yea. I have to watch my neighbors Nfl Sunday Ticket. josh allen its not your best plan. But you know what is . Myplan from verizon. Switch now and theyll give you Nfl Sunday Ticket from youtubetv, on them. hero fan this plan is amazing josh allen another amazing plan, backing away from here very slowly. fan 1 that was josh allen. fan 2 mmhm. vo for a limited time get Nfl Sunday Ticket from youtubetv on us. A 449 value. Plus, get a free Samsung Galaxy z flip5. Only on verizon. burke a new car loses about ten percent of its value the minute you drive off the lot. Or more. Thats why farmers new car replacement pays to replace it with a new one of the same make and model. Get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum we got the house you did pods handles the driving. Pack at your pace. Store your things until youre ready. Then we deliver to your new home across town or across the country. Pods, your personal moving and storage team. Bridgett is here. She has no clue that im here. She has no clue whos in the helmet. Are you ready . Im ready alright. Xfinity rewards creates experiences big and small, and onceinalifetime. Thank you for being with us for another week of shows. We are so grateful and rejoice. Nicole will be back on monday. Join me this weekend for american voices saturday and sunday at 6 00 p. M. Eastern. The beat with ari melber starts right now. We appreciate you, well be looking for you this weekend. Have a good weekend. Thank you. Absolutely. Welcome to the beat. Im ari melber capping off a big week on the beat. A busy night, we are live, we have a lot of news, we have some fun stuff by the end of the hour. I invite you to spend this hour with us. Several developing stories out of the doj and a breakdown tonight on the road to trumps indictments and where we go from here. We have a lot cooking. Ill also mention we have something about obamas theme music as well. We begin with this striking day in court. The first hearing before the federal judge overseeing trumps coup trial occurred today. So yes, theres been a lot of news developments. There was back and forth about the evidence. Rachel and i were discussing there was going to be an evidence clash. Today it went to court and the judge gave defendant trump very blunt warnings about h