Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240704

Clarence thomas by his wealthy rightwing benefactors. But we begin tonight with a pop quiz. Where did president Abraham Lincoln go to law school . The answer may surprise you. And the answer is nowhere. That is correct. He was a selftaught lawyer. And yet, his judgment that seceding from the union was unconstitutional shaped the country we live in today, more than almost any other action by a u. S. President. Lincoln also had a big influence on the practice of law, Writing Notes for a law lecture in around 1850 that laid out guidelines for being a good lawyer. Such as being among other things diligent, moral, a good businessman, and above all, honest. Above all, honest. Qualities the Illinois State Bar Association says are what defines the term lincoln lawyer. The more you know. Of course, if you want to be a lawyer today, it generally requires going to law school. Only a handful of states allowia to do so without a law degree. But just because someone earns a degree doesnt necessarily mean theyre going to be a good lawyer. Ron desantis is a Harvard Law School trained lawyer, does he seem super sharp to you . There are frankly stunning examples in todays headlines that show we in the u. S. Are facing a crisis of lawyering. Case in point, the alleged Co Conspirators in Donald Trumps latest indictment in his efforts to try to overturn the 2020 election. All of those we have identified are lawyers. All of them. Even the Sixth Coconspirator who was only referred to as a political consultant in the indictment, is identified by the New York Times as likely being trump adviser boris epshteyn. Who is also a lawyer. But it is kenneth chesebro, who really epitomizes the crisis were facing today. He was a researcher for one of the greatest legal minds of the modern era, Harvard Law Schools laurence tribe. He worked for him back in 2000, when tribe was an attorney for al gore, arguing in the infamous bush v. Gore debacle. Now, more than 20 years later, we have learned how Chesebro Dishonestly represented that very research to create a legal pretext for trump to subvert democracy, what we know as the fake elector scheme. The New York Times obtained a copy of a previously unknown memo he wrote that was the genesis of the scheme. Nbc news has not been able to independently verify the memo, but in it, chesebro claimed it was a controversial strategy that likely would get rejected if brought before the Supreme Court. He added while it could ultimately get thrown out, airing it out publicly would, quote, buy the Trump Campaign more time to challenge the election. As it relates to trumps latest indictment, there were lawyers on both sides of the argument about whether or not you can set aside real electors for ones chosen by the losing candidate. It sounds absurd, right . We know there were lawyers from the trump white house, doj, and various states saying you cant do that. Then there were a slew of lawyers all claiming the exact opposite. Men a of whom are now facing or have already faced disbarment. And we all know who trump decided to listen to. Lawyers also played a conspicuous role in the other federal case trump is facing, involving classified documents. Trump tried to corrupt his own lawyers. His lawyers were told by federal authorities to search for the classified documents so they could be returned to federal custody. But trump tried to fool his lawyers by having lowlevel maralago staffers move the boxes around so the lawyers couldnt do the job they were tasked to do, even though the lawyers had to sign an attestation certifying that all the documents had been returned. Signatures that could put them at risk of prosecution if the information turned out to be false. And even after they found some classified documents, one of the lawyers claims trump wanted him to pluck out any really incriminating ones before handing them over to the fbi. Trumps legal team as well as those staffers who are now his codefendants, walt nauta and Carlos De Oliveira were back in a florida courtroom today to be arraigned on additional charges from the superseding indictment. Again, de oliveira came without local counsel, so for the second time, his arraignment was delayed. Its been delayed another week. These two cases and the role that lawyers play in them leave us with an overriding question of whether we can trust lawyers to interpret the law as its written. Or whether they can simply get away with their own interpretation that takes them outside of the law, because if we cant trust the lawyers we have a system that cant function. Their interpretation of the law matters. And this week, the american Bar Association launched a Task Force Led by former Homeland Security secretary jeh johnson and michaelluding who you might remember from the January 6th Hearings whose focus will be to bolster public trust in our elections and remind americans their vote matters. According to luttig, it will address the obligations of lawyers under the constitution and the rule of law, and all of this also matters because trump has come up with a twopart strategy to try to stay out of prison. Theres his legal strategy with his emerging defense is to throw his lawyers under the bus and blame them, hey, they told me i could do it, while politically, his strategy has been to attack all the prosecutors and judges involved in the cases. Jack smith, hes like hes like a deranged individual. And i think were doing very well with that guy, but he is a sick puppy. They say theres a young woman, a young racist in atlanta. A racist. And they say, i guess, they say that she was after a certain gang, and she ended up having an affair with the head of the gang or a gang member. And this is a person that wants to indict me. Shes got a lot of problems but she wants to indict me to try to run for some other office. Joining me now is katie phang, attorney and host of the kate fank show, and Charles Coleman jr. , msnbc legal analyst and host of the Charles Coleman podcast. Katie, you were in court today. And one of the things about lawyers is you actually need a local one in order to be arraigned in the state of florida. Does mr. De oliveira have a local lawyer yet . As we sit here and have this conversation, the answer is no. So you know, de oliveira took a page out of the walt nauta playbook today. Walt nauta, as we know, had his Arraignment Reset on two occasions for him to secure local counsel. There was a guy who showed up today. Hes a Criminal Defense Lawyer out of west palm beach. He represented to the court that they were this close to getting it done and that probably tomorrow he would be able to file a notice of appearance. However, despite the Magistrate Judge from a week and some change ago saying show up and have local counsel today for your arraignment, no local counsel was there. And to your point, you know, joy, when i practiced law for more than 20something years in the courtrooms that i was in and ill specifically focus on miamidade county, there was a saying on the wall behind where the judge sat. And it said, we who labor here only seek the truth. It didnt say we who labor here only seek Donald Trumps truth. It didnt say we who labor here only seek the truth when its convenient and it fits the narrative that i want. It is a Black And White application of the black letter of the law, thats the reason we call it that, as we know. Today, what i saw happen with todd blanch and chris chis that disgusted me is they kept on referring to their client as president trump. Hes not the president. And they do it again and again in the filings. That is the kind of stuff that makes our profession as lawyers look bad. That is the disingenuous move you make as a lawyer that is a problem with our profession. Hes not the president. Hes the former president. And even then, today, the Magistrate Judge didnt take the bait. She said mr. Trump. And so its just one small example, and people may think its superficial, but an example of how dishonest the profession can be when youre just trying to service a client. Right, and charles, the thing about, lawyers have had various reputations in the country. Most of our politicians i dont think people realize, are lawyers. Most elected officials are actually lawyers, they were prosecutors first like you both were. Theres the Ambulance Chaser sort of theme of lawyers, but then theres like when youre in trouble, who do you call . Not The Ghost Busters but a lawyer. In this case, the fact you have lawyers all around both of these cases, in the maralago case, you have lawyers who refuse to commit felonies for donald trump, right . They were refusing to do his dirty work for him, and so theyre potential witnesses against their former client. Its just a weird thing. But the fact that donald trump tried to pull lawyers into his scheme and the fact that in the other case in d. C. , they made up the scheme, it does feel like a lawyer crisis. Well, joy, what we can surmise from what were seeing here is that the law is as powerful and prolific a weapon as any other that can be wielded but it should be reserved for those who appreciate the severity of its consequences. What i mean by that in plain speak is, this isnt for everybody. This is not something that everybody should be doing because everyone cannot appreciate that we are all agents of democracy and democratic processes. What i mean by that, as a lawyer, you are an extension of the court. You are an extension of those institutions which form the bedrock of american democracy. And if you are not willing to take that responsibility and that alliance as seriously as it sounds, then you should not be a part of this profession. It is very clear and very telling that donald trump understood the power of the law, which is why he continued to surround himself over and over and over again with lawyers who were willing to approach that line, in some cases cross it, in some cases bend it, but at the end of the day, what were talking about are a number of people who exist in a relatively selfregulated space, which is also important to understand about the bar, who were willing to step outside of that space from an ethical standpoint in twhat gives as katie already alluded to, all of us a bad name. I mean, and the thing about donald trump is that hes both willing to pretend like the sort of Chamois Lawyers that are telling him things like Rudy Giuliani are brilliant and geniuses and eastman are geniuses, but at the same time, hes literally preparing to throw his own lawyers under the bus. Thats one of his strategies, to say its their fault. Then he had all these lawyers who were blunkys. Lets talk about bill barr, was a complete flunky. Twisted the Justice Department to turn it into trumps law firm, but now hes willing to say that guy, because he gave me sound legal advice in this one case about the election is now the enemy and heres how hes treating him. Whats really terrifying about that amalsis is listen, there are good apples, bad apples and the ones everyone would kind of ignore. In this instance, putting aside some of the lawyers he picks out of Parking Garages kind of stuff, he actually has exceptionally trained attorneys that end up being a part of his arsenal that he deploys to be able to get what he wants. These are not casual practicers of the law, these are people, for example, like bill barr, like kenneth chesebro, like john eastman. These are not people who just fell into the practice of law. They were actual scholars and or they were actual practitioners of a profession within which to Charles Point were regulated by bars, by licenses. We have to make sure we comply. Whats problematic is these lawyers like chesebro and eastman, they found also willing patsies like jeffrey clark, remember, if i find an oil spill, ill let you know, jeffrey, right . That kind of idea. They run the gamut of experience, but they also do not run the gamut, though, of morality. They do not have a variation on a theme of morality. They only ascribe to one particular completely debased version tof. To throw away willingly something that is not cheap or easy to get, law degrees are not cheap to get or easy to get, and getting your law license is not that easy to get or inexpensive to get, but theyre just casually throwing it away for a man that would literally throw them under the bus, is shocking to me because what is it worth . Now theyre all being disbarred, now they cant practice law, and for what . For a guy to pretend like youre the next cofeoffee lawyer. Thats a problem i think that i dont understand the siren song of donald trump, that it works for these lawyers to say to hell with it, im willing to jeopardize all of it for you. Hes like a mob lawyer. Yesterday, a man was shot and killed after posting numerous threats against any of the prosecutors involved in prosecuting donald trump. He was shot and killed in utah, where the current president was visiting, charles. You had fani willis talk about the fact shes getting constant threats. Theres constant threats now against all these prosecutors. To say nothing of, you know this very well, you need witnesses to come forward. The witnesses in this case dont have security, dont have secret service like mike pence does. Youre now going to have to have witnesses, and donald trump is on his social media saying if you come after me, i come after you. There are a lot of witnesses who are going to say its not worth it to me. This guy is threatening my life, look at what happened to ruby freeman and shea moss. They got death threats, lynching threats, people picketing outside their homes. Talk about that. Donald trump, it feels like hes turning this case into an opportunity to hurt people for him to silence them. Well, joy, what donald trump has done is hes figured out a way in some cases that he believes hes going to be able to short circuit the legal system. And if he cant short circuit it by delaying it for as long as he can, hes going to now try to poison and toxify the environment around all of these cases in such a way where no one wants to participate. You have already talked about the difficulty of witnesses and as a former prosecutor, both katie and i can tell you that there are so many different times where you may have a defendant dead to rights but because of the pressure that is being put on a witness or their exposure of having to go into a particular environment they know is not safe for themselves, they will not cooperate, making it infinitely more difficult to prosecute. Lets also talk about the fact that right now if you consider what donald trump is doing in his public smear campaign, hes also poisoning an entire jury pool. Hes doing that as well by trying to advance a narrative on his own before the first pieces of discovery have even been turned over in such a way that even as you may get 12 people who sit and promise to be fair and impartial, they have already been inundated by so much from Donald Trumps own platforms that they themselves may have a difficult time going into that case and making a fair decision on either partys behalf. I think that for people who, you know, call themselves fans of donald trump, hes not like you. Youre more like walt nauta. Youre more like de oliveira. Regular people arent like him. Theyre like the people that hes using. Theyre not going to have the protection. And if they turn on him, he is like a mob boss. Youre like the witnesses in this case. Youre not like trump. He has like a gold toilet in his new york house. This is crazy. Katie phang and Charles Coleman jr. , thank you both very much. Up next on the reidout, propublica delivers yet another bombshell on the luxurious lifestyle of a Certain Supreme Court justice thanks to the unprecedented generosity of his Billionaire Buddies. The reidout continues after this. L, easytouse tools, power e trade makes complex trading easier. React to fastmoving markets with dynamic charting and a Futures Ladder that lets you place, flatten, or reverse orders so you wont miss an opportunity. E trade from morgan stanley. Dupixent helps you du more with less asthma. And can help you breathe better in as little as 2 weeks. Dupixent is an addon treatment for specific types of moderatetosevere asthma thats not or sudden breathing problems. Dupixent can cause allergic reactions that can be severe. Get help right away if you have rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, tingling or numbness in your limbs. Tell your doctor about new or worsening joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. 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You may be at increased risk of hospitalization. [coughing]. From this highly. Contagious virus. Not all dangers come with warning labels. Talk to your pharmacist or doctor. About getting vaccinated against rsv today. Wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. Talk to your pharmacist its to die for. And its all right here. Streaming was never this easy, you know. This is the way. You really went all out didnt you . Um, its called commitment. Could you turn down the volume . Here, you can try. Get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. Justice Clarence Thomas after his bruising Confirmation Hearing in 1991 is said to have told his law clerks that the liberals made my life miserable for 43 years and im going to make their lives miserable for 43 years. That vengeance has seemingly fueled his complete disregard for propriety and ethics. Propublica posted another detailed investigation into thomas and what they uncovered is shocking but no longer surprising. In his 30plus years on the court, thomas has amassed new Billionaire Buddies like harlan crow whose relationship with thomas was the subject of previous reporting. Now were learning about others like wayne huizenga, and tony novelly, an oil barren. They lavished their Supreme Court buddy with hundreds of thousands of Dollars Worth of gifts, private jet lifts, and vacations. According to propublica, which cited flight data, security detail records, tax court filings, interviews with more than 100 eyewitnesses and a host of other information, thomas received at least 38 destination vacations including a previously unreported voyage on a yacht around the bahamas, 26 private jet flights, plus an additional eight by helicopter, a dozen vip pazes to professional and College Sporting events, et cetera, et cetera, and by the way, he was typically perched in the sky box for those. Two stays at luxury resorts in florida and jamaica, and one standing invitation to an exclusive golf club overlooking the atlantic coast. None of the names of the newly reported boosters appeared in Financial Disclosures. While he hasnt appeared to break laws by failing to report his stays in friends Homes Experts say it look like it may have violated the law by failing to disclose the flights, cruises, vip Sports Dockts and others perks he got only after he was seated on the Supreme Court. Nbc news reached out to thomas for comment but didnt immediately hear back. Propublica was unable to identify if these Billionaire Benefactors had legal cases before the Supreme Court in the documented relationships with thomas. David socle said we have never discussed any pending court matter. Novelly didnt respond. When propublica reported in april that thomas was receiving luxurious trips and Financial Assistance from harlan crow, Justice Thomas said, he was advised that this sort of personal hospitality from close personal friends who did not have business before the court was not reportable. Thomas has also complained in the past that serving on the highest court in the land wasnt worth it for the pay but rather for the principle. Can guess the access, power, and prestige make it even better. Since it helped him meet his cadre of Billionaire Friends who seemingly love to larvish him with really expensive gifts while he sits on a court that continues to deliver major victories that just so happen to appeal to their idealogical beliefs. Just ask yourself, dear viewer, if Clarence Thomas didnt rule the way he did, do you think he would be invited on these trips to the clubs, to the yachts . Joining me is down fox, general kourn of the u. S. Government of ethics. He was quoted in the propublica piece. Thank you for being here. That is my challenge with the thomas defense and those who defend him. Number one, and i think you might have said this in the piece, were these people his friends before 1992 when he got on the court . No. Number two, if he didnt rule the way he did, would they still take him on the yacht and take him on the chopper . I would argue no. And so to me, the bribe isnt, hey, clarence, can you please rule this way on this case. The bribe is, you doing this is how i get you the gifts. You doing this is how you get the lifestyle, and you not doing it would probably take the lifestyle away. What do you think of my kind of thought there. I think the defense there was no case, there were no cases before Justice Thomas in which these gentlemen were parties or the fact there wasnt a bribe involved is an awfully low bar in terms of public service. I mean, the whole point of public Financial Disclosure in the first place is Public Confidence in senior officials, whether theyre Career Officials as i was for a long time with the government, or people who enjoy Lifetime Tenure like Justice Thomas. If he had done the right thing, first of all, by declining all this lavish entertainment and these trips from his newly found friends, or at a minimum, if he had at least disclosed it, you and i wouldnt be having this conversation. The ting is, even the attempt to sort of mitigate the kind of appearance that hes living high on the hog, that Famous Rv Trip that he took where they did a documentary to try to make him look good, it turned out even that, his 287,000 rv luxury rv, came as a result of a real sneaky sounding loan from another rich friend. And so even the appearance to make him look like an every man comes across as shady. So at this point, i think what a lot of people wonder is why isnt there anything that can be done in terms of what seems to be ethical violations. Well, i think in terms of that question, why cant something be done, and i think thats because the court itself has failed to adopt any of the standards that in fact are imposed on lower courts. And thats a reluctance that i think many of us who have been in the ethics profession simply dont understand. So i think thats kind of the first answer. Is there im sorry . Go ahead. I was going to say, is there any possible recourse . I think the only possible recourse, and i dont really see it happening in this case, would be if there were some possible prosecution for knowingly filing a false public Financial Disclosure statement. Those kinds of prosecutions have occurred for much lower level officials. But were really in an uncharted territory when were talking about an associate justice of the Supreme Court. I cant imagine this Justice Department with all of the trump stuff on their hands saying they want to go into a Clarence Thomas trial. This was the chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee, Justice Thomas and alito have made it clear theyre oblivious to the embarrassment on the highest court of the land. Now its up to them to save their own reputations and the integrity of the court. Justice elena kagan has said no, congress can regulate us. They confirm us and they fund us and they can. Short of regulation, it seems to me that like youre not going to embarrass them into retiring. If they retire, they dont get the gifts anymore. The incentive is to dig in and keep doing it because you get to keep going on the trips. I think in that respect, you could be right. Justice kagan is also certainly right that congress has the Constitutional Authority to pass laws that limit the restrict the ethical conduct of the justices. Indeed, the very law that were talking about that requires public Financial Disclosure was enacted in 1978 by the congress. So its also public Financial Disclosures should not be new to Justice Thomas. He had to file these forms when he was chair of the eeoc, which he was for many years. Yeah. He just pretends he doesnt know because he likes the trips, i think thats very clear. Don fox, thank you so much for being here. And up next, to ban or not to ban. Now its shakespeare feeling the wrath of Snowflake Conservatives in florida, because did you hear that people were having sex and doing violence in his day as well . Im saving with liberty mutual, mom. They customize your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. You could save 700 dollars just by switching. Ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. On the top of the pile oh. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Summer. Its the hungriest time of year for kids across america. Kids whose hardworking families are struggling to make ends meet. Whether its working the crazy hours so you can have enough money for food or, you know, just giving up things for your personal self, and its just yeah, gotta feed your kids. Far too many kids are missing the meals they need this summer. 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You can help provide healthy meals to kids across america and in your local community. Thank you for giving. Thank you for giving. Thank you families are struggling to make ends meet. These are hard times. So please call now or go online to give. And the existence of gay people, the works of William Shakespeare are now on the very long list of what is not allowed to be taught in florida schools. Yep, you heard that right. According to Hillsborough County Public Schools new curriculum, students will only be Reading Excerpts from plays for class rather than the full text, citing sexual content in plays like Romeo And Juliet that do not align with floridas dont say gay right. Romeo, Romeo Wherefor sorry, thats all i can say. If youre asking what can they actually teach other than the job benefits of slavery . Well, look no further than a little place called prager university. Not a real university, mind you, but a conservative Advocacy Group founded by rightwing radio talk show host dennis prager. Last week, florida became the first state to allow educational material from prager u to be taught in classrooms. The prager material targeting Young Children aligned to floridas revised civics and standards. This content that aligned with their standards is essentially just conservative Talking Points formulated into tenminute Car Teen Videos. A short siros of Car Teen Videos about a duo who time travel to different periods in history and meet historical figures. Soundser harmless, right . Not contactually. Take a look at the video of when they meet christopher columbus. What about slavery . You didnt deny that . Deny . No, slavery is as old as time. And its taken place in every corner of the world. Even amongst the people i just left. Being taken as a slave is better than being killed, no . I dont see the problem. Im sorry, what . There should never be a scenario where you start a sentence with being taken as a slave is better than nevertheless, they were quote unquote violent, while also glossing over the genocide and rape because columbus brought christianity to the new world so he must be a good guy, right . Also another video following the Protest Movement after the killing of george floyd, the duo travels back to meet Frederick Douglass. The there was no Real Movement anywhere in the world to abolish slavery before the american founder. Slavery was part of life all over the world. It was america that began the conversation to end it. Our system is wonderful. And the constitution is a glorious liberty document. We just need to convince enough americans to be true to it. And people like garrison dont just want slavery abolished but the whole american system . You are correct. His approach is called radical. That means a complete fundamental change of everything. That would be William Lloyd garrison. Yeah, no. What real Frederick Douglass actually said about america in his famous speech, what to the slave is the fourth of july, is this. There is not a nation on the earth guilty of practices more shocking and bloody than are the people of the United States at this very hour. And for it is not light that is needed but fire. It is not the gentle shower but thunder. We need the storm, the whirlwind, and the earthquake. But that speech with douglasss actual words probably would be banned in florida too because why teach accurate history when you can teach the watered down conservative version of it. Whats even more ironic is as conservatives argue that teaching about gay people and the atrocities of slavery is indoctrination, here is how prager himself described his fake universitys content at a moms for Liberty Conference last month. I really wanted to hear what evidence do you have that i am despicable. So it was fascinating, i spent at least ten minutes there until i just had to come in here, and all i heard was, well, because you indoctrinate kids. Which is true, we bring doctrines to children. Thats a very fair statement. I said, but what is the bad of our indoctrination . Yeah, okay, so what im getting is indoctrination is fine as long as theyre the ones doing it. Is that whats going on here . This is a question that i would love to ask the florida educational commissioner, manny diaz, but apparently hes too busy to take questions even from his own constituents on what is in fact the first day of the Fall School Year in much of florida. Last night, the commissioner dropped out of a town hall addressing these very issues which is happening right now in one of floridas largest majority black cities. My conversation with state senator Chevron Jones who organized that event which i did just a short time ago, is next. Shingles. 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Okay, i want to show you whats happening right now at Antioch Missionary Baptist Church in Miami Gardens, florida, where state lawmakers, educators, and families are gathered for a town hall on the states new standards for teaching black history. One person who is not in attendance is Florida Education Commissioner manny diaz who at the last minute declined an invitation from Chevron Jones, one of the organizers of the event. I talked with senator jones about this notable absence. Senator, thank you for joining me. Let me just start by asking you to take a look at the flier that, i actually got from you, from your office. Here it is, it says august 10, 7 00 p. M. , that is today. And at that point, manny diaz was going to be there. What happened and when did you find out that he was no longer going to show up . Yes, absolutely, joy. Im almost sure that the governor and the Governors Office directed the commissioner that this is not something that he should be doing or that he should do because he did express that he was getting some he had gotten some pushback, but he wanted to definitely do this anyway because i expressed to him the importance of it, but earlier in the week, he made it clear this is something that he probably would not be able to do. He would give me a call and then he put it out and said this is something that i cant do anymore. And pulled out, when was that . That was earlier this week, so monday or tuesday. Monday or tuesday. How many people had rsvpd for this event, this Community Event . About 1400 people rsvpd on the website. But thats not including those individuals who had rsvpd through email and other things. So i think right now, were still getting rsvps and the event is about to start in the next 30 minutes. This is the statement that manny diaz tweeted out. We attempted to reach out to him, but got they referred us back to the tweet. Theres nothing sudden about my inability to attend senator jones town hall. As i told the senator last week, ill be visiting schools throughout the state to welcome back students, parents, and teachers. But presumably, first of all, i want you to comment on whether that statement is accurate, that he told you last week, because you just said it was not last week, it was this week, but also, today is the first day of school. This was an opportunity to talk with parents and teachers. Does this leave you with the sense that this commissioner just really actually isnt interested in hearing from parents and teachers in this particular community . Very interesting because miamidade county, they dont start until next week. I do understand he was up north in some of the other schools that have already started. It was never communicated to me about visiting schools. The only thing the commissioner and i spoke about because he and i do have a relationship, we served for 12 years in the legislature together. He said he was going to be in town during this week and we solidified on this date. And then as far as the timeframe, i think Commissioner Diaz and his office are very clear, how we operate on protocol. We reached out and wanted to make sure, hey, are you okay with the flier, are you okay with everything, how its set up . It was fine, but i want to put out again that i think the governor made it clear that youre not doing this. And you know, were looking at a place where florida schools, this is a. P. Psychology, which is one of the things that almost got lost in the dont say gay law. Commissioner diaz did confirm they have changed their mind and are going to allow a. P. Psychology to be taught consistent with the state bans. But there are local School Teachers and commissioners who are concerned, and theyre saying yeah, they would be happy to teach it as long as their teachers wont end up in prison. You still have questions whether a. P. Psychology is be taught without teachers being jailed and you have this fake history of prager u. Videos being taught in places like Miami Gardens to black kids, lying about American History through the voices of people like a fake Frederick Douglass. Is that the kind of thing that you think would have been addressed if manny diaz had shown up tonight . Absolutely, joy. I think that would have been addressed and i think that other things would have been addressed. A lot of parents came here not just to talk about the African American studies. They came to talk about the a. P. Psychology, they came to talk about whats happening when it comes to their lgbtq child. They came to talk about when it comes to Reading Proficiency in florida and why were still number 49 in the country when it comes to whether our children can read. Parents wanted to ask these questions and ill continue to put out there we as leaders, if we are bold enough to put these types of policies out there, you better be bold enough to stand on it. Absolutely. If youre going to ban books, add least say that its parental rights, at least show up and let the parents ask you about the books that youre banning. Absolutely. I will note again we have been attempting to get commissioner manny diaz to come on this show and talk about the Education Rules in the state of florida. Thus far, his office has declined, but that invitation remains open. Chevron jones, thank you very much. Still ahead thank you. My he sat down with Vice President Kamala Harris earlier, and he is sitting down with me next to share exclusive Insert Excerpts and insights. Stay right there. 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With our business internet, new and existing customers can get one year of unlimited mobile for free. Its our best internet. Powered by The Next Generation 10g network and with 99. 9 reliability. Plus one line of free mobile for an entire year. Its the mobile made free eventhappening now. Get started for just 49. 99 a month. Plus, ask how to get one free line of unlimited mobile. This month marks 60 years comcast business, powering possibilities. Since 250,000 People Marched On Washington to fight for equality and the right to vote. Today Reverend Al Sharpton spoke to Vice President Kamala Harris about that historic march and the rights that are still under attack today. Heres on the Vice President responded when asked what she thinks about when she wakes up in the morning. Our democracy. I think everything is at stake right now. And democracy is intact, when it is, it strengthens the people and protects and fight for fundamental freedoms, individual, right. Its a fight for order against k are. It strengthens. On the other hand, democracy, incredibly fragile. It will only be as strong as our willingness to fight for it. And right now there are many forces that are attempting to purposely, i believe, weaken our democracy. You can see that complete interview on politicsnation, saturday at five pm eastern here on msnbc. Joining me now is the Reverend Al Sharpton. Rev, so glad to see you. Congratulations on the interview. That Question Answer was so quick, so immediate. She didnt have a second thought. What do you make of the way that she is framing the threats to democracy that we are facing right now . I think that she realizes that, and she expressed this in the interview, that she is the result of people that including her own mother. When we talk about that. And this is the first woman and first woman of color to be Vice President , and when you look at, you just talked with senator shevrin brown, we had a big march with him when the first we you have this case against the fund in were given women startup money and money to help invest in their businesses. And i met with them when i got back to work today. Them along with Attorney Ben Crump an attorney and on every front they are trying to erode our right to vote. Theyre taking womens right to choose. I think she takes a global view of this as Vice President , saying this is a real battle against everything they marched for 60 years ago. We made advancement. We got a black president. We got in our black Vice President. But where we will lose it all if we dont fight for what was handed to us as our our path. She is not going to happen on my watch. The passion and sincerity of the interview and a clear focus on where we are now comes through in this. And i think it is something that we really need to understand, that case by case, from affirmative action, a womans right to choose, to eroding of the vote particularly in black communities, all of this is an assault on democracy, and we need to all stand together, black, white, latino, asian, everybody, and push back against what they are trying to bring us back to the pre1950 america where andy griffith, a, b and gomer pyle. Were not going back. Is part of that. Shes the result of the 60 years ago. When you think about, it this was a marriage, and you say this all the time, rev, this was a March On Washington, it was amount to get kennedys attention. No one, i think, could have imagined, that 60 years later the highest ranking black woman in American History would be the Vice President of the United States, let alone being a woman. A lot has changed. It is hard to argue that. But did she address the fight that we are still in that is the reason that we still need to have a March On Washington . Not only thought about it at length in the interview, she talks about moving around the country. Dont forget, she went to memphis and spoke to tyre nichols fuel rural where i gave the funeral when she gave to trying to edit out parts of American History and to tennessee when they were going to put people out of the State Legislature for standing up for free speech. But i think it is important that people understand that not only did we win putting people in the right place, but didnt they are trying to keep the country in the right place. Every day women, blacks, gays, everybody. Thats why i thought the interview was so important, and the timing was not just to sit back and watch the interview but to be active. Thats why thousands will be with us in washington august 26, with Martin Luther king the third and king and myself calling this march. 60 years later, we are a lot further than we were, but we are not where we need to. Be a man. I would be remiss imaging that she also went to indian and indianapolis to the stigma baylor conviction. We love to see the Vice President out there. Riverdale sharpton, thank you. Well be sure to watch revs complete interview with Vice President Kamala Harris on saturday here on msnbc. Thats the knights the reidout. All in with star with chris hayes starts now. Stay woke, yall. Ri tonight, on all in happy new year. Any questions . The Special Counsel requests or general second trial date as a hail mary fhe