Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240704

Of manhattan, alvin bragg. I want to give you one piece of context here. Thats an individual at a Law Enforcement level whos not been nationally famous. Indeed, most people around the country following the show in utah, for example, wouldnt be able to name the random d. A. S in random cities. Yet, this is the d. A. That donald trump has been publicly targeting since the manhattan d. A. Indicted donald trump. Now i say with precision because thats a fact. Law enforcement is not making any direct link, causal or otherwise yet but this is the environment were in. Msnbc reporting this manmade to trip to utah and discussed preparing camouflage and a sniper rifle. Then he called d. A. Bragg a hack, brought up a Conspiracy Theory by george soros and discussed a plot to somehow assassinate bragg in a Parking Garage according to these charging documents. The fbi is reviewing the shooting. So, how do you go from being an unknown lawyer to being elected d. A. , to being caught up at a president ial level, targeted whatever the reasons, whatever the extra materials that the fbi and other resources might find about this person how do you go from there to there . Well, all of this of course, at least at the public level of Information Points to donald trump the defendant in more than june jurisdiction publicly berating or attacking Law Enforcement, including prosecutors, in ways that are also relevant to his ongoing case. You may recall donald trump posted an image of himself holding this bat here on truth social right against this photo of d. A. Bragg, and this week, jack smith referenced new threats by donald trump that were kind of more broad in nature as part of the sparring over the nature of the rules around secrecy and discussing the evidence in the coup case. Now, that comes against the backdrop of what else jack smith is doing, so again, im kind of going to leave that there. And i will repeat Law Enforcement are not drawing a direct causal link between what this random individual was plotting to do or what he said he was going to do and donald trump. While donald trump is the defendant thats doing things that got many other people in contempt or trial, which is seeming to invite attacks against Law Enforcement. Against that backdrop, jack smith is Going Forward with the case we have been covering. Theres new criminal evidence in the elector fraud plot, for example. This is the plot that we have been charging for you. They wanted to basically commit fraud, a type of fraud, to launder or add a pretext to then stealing the election on the january 6th certification. We have a brand new document. It relates to stuff weve known, but the document is brand new. The New York Times had a story crossing late last night. Its the news today, where the trump lawyer, with receipts was basically writing down their conspiracy. Just writing it down. I mentioned the New York Times broke the story, and what they obtained was what was meant to this was win by one of the people identified by jack smith as a coconspirator. You see right there on the memo his name. He says the plan was to and remember, the Electoral College voted by december 14th, all of this is settled, and yet in Plain English im going leave it on the screen, this is conspiracy evidence. The plan was to, quote, Deprive Biden of the electoral votes he had won to keep him under the 270 votes he had already won but engineer a fraud or plot to initiate the pretense he didnt have them on the 6th. The lawyer admits its a bold, controversial strategy. This circulated in early december. And talk about receipts, some of this was happening in secret at the time. Some of it stayed secret, but as we learned bits and pieces about the elector fraud plot, there are journalists and prosecutors who said wait a minute, this is bigger than first look. This is bigger than first Crime Spilling into the open. Not the only, but one of the firsts was rachel maddow. This was within the week when she reported on these events in realtime. Wisconsin cast its electoral votes for biden and harris today. Pennsylvania cast its electoral votes for biden and harris today. Georgia, arizona. But it did get weird arizona, i kid you not, republicans in arizona sent a forged certificate of ascertainment to the National Archives in washington, pretending they were the real electors from arizona and their votes for trump are real and should be counted by the United States senate. Literally they sent a forged document. Thats exactly right. You can see it up here on the screen in comparison. Forged. Fraud. Rachel was drilling down at a time people were saying,s the over, lets move on. She was saying, wait a minute, if its foreignly, thats not only news thats potentially illegal. Its a problem. It was many months later when the Congressional January 6th Committee got those notes together, conferred with the archives. You cant send fraudulent documents to the government. Not for any reason. You could do that any Government Forum its illegal. Theres a hierarchy. If you do it to the irs About Money Versus the doj about guns and drugs versus doing it to the National Archives and congress about stealing a federal election, youre going up the line with fraud. There were apparently trump fans that were also lied to. If you watch this show, you may recall i mentioned to jack smith in either his precision makes clear in the indictment while he sees some people doing crimes and wants to hold them accountable, he was precise saying it seemed some of the rabid trump fans were lied to. Again, if youre lied to, you might not be on the hook for the criminal standard of indictment. Very simple example before i move on, if somebody comes over to your house and says, hey you just moved in, youre new in the neighborhood. I made you some cookies. And they give them to you and you receive them and you dont know that theyre pot cookies or heroin cookies and you have them in your house you dont meet the criminal standard of guilt because you werent trying to have a drug item in your house. Its quite the opposite if you and your friend conspire to take a box of drugs around. Smith fairly said, some of these people were lied to. Now to the new memo. A coconspirator who we know is giuliani falsely assured some of these individuals their certificates would only be used in trump succeeded in litigation. The memo discusses the same goal, that basically you know youre doing bad or potentially a conspiracy if you have to not only hide it from the world, but hide it from the people involved. And again, in an abundance of fairness, its a separate question ethically, morally, or whatever, if you dont like or want to criticize people who are playing games with the elections, right . Thats kind of been the public debate. Its another thing to say that some of these electors, for whatever reason they love donald trump and wanted to do what the campaign asked, ultimately felt like people who went to donald trump university, worked for donald trump. Its an old story, although the stakes are pretty high this time. They were bamboozled, duped, lied to. We were duped. Michelle lundgren is the ninth name on the list of accused fake electors charged by Michigan Attorney general dana nestle. We were told to come, they needed us, and we went, and we were given cake and coffee. We were called by a member of the Republican Party. Be sure you come. We really need your help. The scam was bigger than all of us. Thats a trump fan realizing the scam was bigger than her and she would be used and discarded and sent off to prison like so many others. Thats an open case where the Michigan Attorney general feels and legally concluded those people should be responsible. My point is not to resolve all of this tonight. Anyone accused is going to get their day in court. My point is to precisely say we have a new memo, which adds more details to how much they knew they were doing something bad and secretly conspireing to do it. They take all that stuff, wanted to jam mike pence with it so he would and use Jam Investigations or references to fraud or dead people voting or the electors stuff to somehow thwart, delay, or stop what did happen, President Elect Biden becoming president biden. There are people who underestimated this at times. I dont think anyone here on earth one, as our Colleague Nicolle says, i dont think anyone in reality can underestimate it now, because it was a coup attempt with a violent insurrection on top. As ive told you before, even a blood less coup attempt is an attack on democracy. You have a violent insurrection you have something were going to be dealing with for years, unless we dont deal with it and it could be inbounds and we lose our democracy. Its happened in many countries. Thats why weve all been following these strands. Rachel, the other reporting, investigations, whenever we can we invite people on to explain themselves. We try to give them ample time, try to do it fairly, and sometimes their own statements seem to incriminate them. That was the case for one of the few people who was in the white house up through the 6th and 20th, Donald Trumps hard core, long time loyalist peter navarro, and he discusses part os this plan right here on this show. The remedy was for Vice President pence as the quarterback in the green bay sweep to remand those votes back to the battleground states. So, youve lost the election, the court battles, but you prop up fake scam and Election Investigations and some fake electors. You try to jam them into the sixth and send it back to the states. At a minimum, youre abusing the system in power and fraud to try to delay a certification. The new memo going back and forth between what we knew and the new memo the times just got a hold of has a selfcriticism. I dont know why cheeseboro included this. Maybe he was worried he was going to be standing all alone. He went out of his way to put it in writing that the conspiracy he was proposing was kind of wild creative. Just going to leave that there. The New York Times also pointed to a mail from Boris Epshteyn to a trump lawyer that discusses these fraudulent alternative votes and they should call them alternative, thats a better term than fake votes, with the smiley face. Again, if this were a movie or a story or a play or a cartoon, you could dismiss you all. This is keystone cops. Clownish. But this was all quite real. And smiley face or not, messaging or not, spin or not, we know what it led to. We know why its indicted as a coup conspiracy. Mr. Epshteyn discussed the plan as well on the beat. I was part of the process to mick sure there were alternate electors for when as we hope the challenges to the Seat Electors would be successful. Everything that was done was done illegally by the Trump Legal Team according to the rules and under the leadership of rudy giuliani. I should mention ive invited mr. Epshteyn to return. Thats an open invite, as were discussed these issues with many people, people who share more of the perspective of doj and jack smith as well as people involved or lawyers representing them. Now, heres a bold assertion as well from this new revealed memo. An invite to print and even Tv Journalists could be invited to cover the event so they could make it look like a real thing. Newly built memo built on previous memos to footage like this. In some cases they were lying and duping the people and saying keep it secret. In other places like arizona, they were saying, lets look official. Hand out papers, sit around a table. This is one as i mentioned rachel highlighted at the time. The arizona gop uploaded the video online and they were committing what would appear to be Election Fraud at the time. Now, youve seen this before. This is something that donald trump mastered. Its somewhere between political propaganda and reality show hi jinx. If youre going to do the bad thing any way, the more you launder and publicize it fatigue, tire them out, the more you say, this wasnt a secret. How could it be bad if it wasnt a secret. The answer is, that was your strategy, and the bad news for some of the conspirators is theyre writing it in the memo. There should be messaging that presents this as a routine measure. This is utterly mundane to people in law. Today an ultimate slate of electors in contested states is going to vote, and were going to send these results up the congress. There were alternate electors sent in 1876. Tlrm alternate ones sent in 1960. Thats called politics. Routine politics et cetera. We put that together briefly for you to show you how you go from the written memo, which is designed to trick you and other people who follow the news, how it goes from the memo all the way out to the advocates, the actual trump employees, and some of their allies. The memo says it wasnt actually routine, that even if the Supreme Court actually took a case like this, they would end up ruling the power of course lies with congress, not this ridiculous bananas Vice President theory, which just pence and others rejected. And there was no evidence of mass voter fraud. The memo also comes around the same time two suggest this is part of a big conspiracy. The coverup attempts show the trump camp knew that as well. So yes, you can give legal advice, and yes, you can go on tv or out in public and give speeches full of lies. You can do those things. But if you start writing down your illegal plan, if you start writing down the details of how youre going to lie to everyone from the government on out, you might be telling on yourself. You might be writing down something that isnt really a memo at all. Its a blueprint for a conspiracy which could later be charged in court. Law professor melissa murray, i want to ask you whether that is what theyve done here, so stay with me. Were back together in just 60 seconds. Ust 60 seconds. And cavities is strong enamel nothing beats it. New pronamel active shield actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. I think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients it really works. Were back with professor murray. Did they tell on themselves . Im reminded of Stringer Bell in the wire. Are you taking notes on a criminal conspiracy . Because this is very much writing down the stuff that you dont want written down. Theres a lot in this memo, and i think it contextualizes the events we didnt get, first from the january 6th committee, but then from the indictment, and it makes clear this was an effort and, an effort they knew was false to basically defraud the American Public as to how the election was conducted and ultimately to delay the counting of the votes, prompting this to go to the United States Supreme Court, thereby compromising any victory joe biden might claim. I think that is really important. This was a delay tactic that would force this all the way to the United States Supreme Court, create a second bushes have gore with all the doubt that understood lay that election for many years following 2000. What do you think of the way the legal, conspiritle and possible legal strategies all circle around the lie that something which never happens and its own participants know is bad would be presented as somehow, quote, routine or just an alternative option . Again, theres been for many years within the Republican Party this effort to stoke a narrative that voter fraud is rafr pant everyone though we know, and theres evidence that makes clear, voter fraud is not rampant at all, that our elections are incredibly secure. But that naritive was very present here, and more importantly because of that voter fraud, we could then present this alternative slate of electors. And that date in december was merely a routine selection where the alternative electors could be presented to make a claim where in fact they had been the victims of this kind of voter fraud and that would push everything out to january 6th. In the memo theres all kinds of Support Mischaracterization of scholars and minority activists to underscore this is all norm and make it seem like its norm and predictable and that democrats have done this for years when in fact nobody has done this at any time before. So again, a broader conspiracy to defraud the public about the way the election is conducted and indeed to conduct the rest of the electoral process, the counting and certification of the. I want to now give you a possible alleyoop, i think. Did you have any response to the rapid trump fan who now says shes discovered that this scam that trump was pushing was bigger than all of us . The scam is always bigger than all of us. Again, weve seen this throughout the entire four years in which donald trump was president , this idea hes for the little guy, hes for the people, when in fact a lot of them are simply pawns in this broader effort to keep and maintain his authority, his understanding of the government. Everyone this memo, Kenneth Cheseboro is a pawn in all of this as well, and i imagine he as coconspirator five is probably really thinking about whether or not hes going to be an indicted coconspirator at one time or if hes going to cooperate Going Forward with with this prosecution. But there are going to be a lot of lives destroyed here all on the altar of donald trump. Yeah, all fair. Professor murray, thank you. The professor asked, will any of those coconspirators be indicted . We have a Special Report answering that question next. Pot answering that question next when moderate to Severe Ulcerative Colitis takes you off course. Put it in check with rinvoq, a oncedaily pill. When i wanted to see results fast, rinvoq delivered rapid Symptom Relief and helped Leave Bathroom urgency behind. Check. When uc tried to slow me down. I got lasting, steroidfree remission with rinvoq. Check. And when uc caused Damage Rinvoq came through by visibly repairing my colon lining. Check. Rapid Symptom Relief. Lasting steroidfree remission. And the chance to visibly repair the colon lining. Check, check, and check. Rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. 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Im so surprised just how crazy my metabolism has fired up. I have a trust in golo cause i know it works. Golo isnt like every other program out there, and im living proof of it. announcer change your life at golo. Com. Thats golo. Com. Turning to our Special Report now. Everyone knows the largest news that came in the Coup Indictment of donald trump. It was that he was indicted. He was arraigned. He awaits trial. Thats about him. So initial reactions to this have understandably focused on trumps culpability for the indicted plots you see on your screen, but when you look at them, five of the screams are now indicted conspiracies. That means the doj alleges they involved other people. You cannot do a conspiracy alone. The law requires two or more people. Think of it as the tennis of federal law. You dont need a whole team, but you definitely need at least one other person to be in the game, and jack smith is saying the other people in the game with trump are these coconspirators. He names six total. He has not indicted any of them, at least not yet. But even being an Unindicted Coconspirator is a big dealle we know that in law and history. The nation concerned when prosecutors named nixon as an Unindicted Coconspirator in watergate. Im not a crook. President nixon has been named by a grand jury as a conspirator in the watergate coverup. One year of watergate is enough. The jury voted to name mr. Nixon as an unindicted conspirator. The jury believed the president was part of the coverup crime but did not excuse him specifically of that crime. Unindicted coconspirators. You saw that then in watergate. Its big smith is running that same play against these new coconspirators. Six total. Five identified on your screen. The doj found these several people trying to help a criminal president. There are questions if this is part of a jack smith plan to leave open the threat of other charges. Ill tell you that under Standard Practice and indictment doesnt actually always name other figures, including coconspirators, but this indictment is not redacted or coy. Weve identified five of the six coconspirators. Many of them confirmed their own status as coconspirators through their lawyers. We spoke to one conspirators lawyer just this week who confirmed his client John Eastmans status and pushed back against possible future charges. So on our Special Report im going to walk you through this. The first conspirator is rudy giuliani. He was lying about the election and soon was across multiple plots, including pressuring the lawmakers, fraudulent electors scheme, and trying to get congress in on january 6th. He admits he knowly spread false claims that some of the other attorneys would not. Then theres john eastman. You can see here when the feds seized his phone over a year ago, putting his hands on his head, taking the phone, he now faces disbarment proceedings. Hes been facing the Long Arm Of The Law here for some time. And when congress came to that same gentleman, mr. Eastman, with questions, he repeatedly pled the fifth. I assert my fifty amendment right against being compelled to be a witness against myself. Did the Trump Legal Team ask you to prepare a memorandum in Joint Session Of Congress january 2020 . You will not discuss those same conversations with this committee . Fifth. The next coconspirator, sidney powell, who even trump said, in the middle of all this, she sounded, quote, crazy. Fox news lost its huge Defamation Case over her kind of claims, and so when you look at powells role in all of this, she was someone who was not only unhinged within the team, but was the outer edge of what smith thinks they can prove in court were knowing lies committed through fraud submitted to the government. Then theres the doj naming one of its own, jeffrey clark, a coconspirator. And as you see right here, the government video shows the feds coming to his front door, pulling him out of his house in order to search his home. Thats when we got some of the first signs the level of legal heat. You see the door of his house. You can imagine the shock and dismay he felt. He once had a hugely powerful position at doj. Now hes dealing with a doj authorized Search Warrant to come inside his home. Trump tried to install him as basically coup Attorney General. Hes also the one that was busted in the indictment for talking about abusing Military Power or the insurrection act. Now, the final identified coconspirator i can show you tonight is someone we were just mentioning, Kenneth Cheseboro. The architect and author of that memo. He may have exceeded the boundaries of what a lawyer can do. Then if you look at all six, as i mentioned, we and no news outlet has been able to pin down the identity of the sixth coconspirator. There were messages that appear to overlap with a trump aide Boris Epshteyn, but hes not the only person this could be. Msnbc has not been able to confirm he is one of the individuals, that he is a coconspirator, and we also have signs of who this sixth person is not. I should say, msnbcs lisa rubin says its not jason miller or someone people were talking about, Trump Official Mike Roman because theyre cited in the document by their other former official titles. So you have these Unindicted Coconspirators. By definition, the Justice Department through jack smith, who is a speedy and no nonsense pit bull of a prosecutor, thinks they have the goods to charge any one of these. Ied you when the legal heat started hitting, including two who have been searched in ways we talked about, to underscore the heat has only been rising. Will some of them be charged . All of them . Would any of that increase the odds that theyre more cooperative . 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It must be delicious. Delectables lickable treat. We are back, reporting on these six coconspirators named by jack smith. You see them there. We walked through this report. Take one of the most controversial, the former doj official jeffrey clark. We show him here on the 6th. We new he was under legal heat because about a year ago they had him pulled out of out of the front door of his house to conduct a search. There he was. Not allowed to go back in the house or get dressed. It was a sign of legal heat, but then and in the months after no one knew what that would lead to, no one new hed be named as a coconspiriter by the Justice Department he used to work for. We have a special expert, david kelly, the former sdny chief and i should mention, my former boss. Welcome back. Thank you. A lot of us talk about this stuff. Youve run these cases. Sometimes you indict at once, you try, and you close the case. Other times you might indict later. Walk us through having looked at these cases what you think jack smith might be up to with six unindicted. A lot of it is a Guessing Game but ill tell you a couple things. Its clear they wanted to indict trump standing alone. I think it makes it more expeditious. At the same time by naming coconspirators what hes done is creating an evidentiary gateway by spelling out what the coconspirator statements said. Statements are not hearsay so he can make the case without having the folks in the courtroom. Slow you down. Youre making a point thats relevant in court, not in trial, not any other time, because here on the news we cover all the statements. Youre reminding everyone if it was just a random person who talked to trump, it would actually be harder to bring in what they allegedly said. Correct, and theres another gateway here, too, and that is that this gives them kind of permission, if you will, a gateway, again, to continue the investigation. Three, i think what it helps do is leverage some pressure on these coconspirators to see if theyll flip, and maybe one or more have already. We dont know. My other question for uhuh might not like. I know you try to stay precise and you know a lot of people in the donning and represented james comey, but whos the most likely to charge . I would say giuliani and eastman. Eastman here. Weve got him at the middle there because he was searched. Why eastman . Basically what he did was he was orchestrating this whole operation, which he knew was a Butchered Legal Theory that was being used to give a veil of legitimacy to a plot to engage in the crimes that jack smith charged, namely to the scheme to deprive people of having their votes counted. They knew that while there was disputes in different states, but none of them were being upheld. They were told there was no fraud. They said, lets try to create this scheme. Well throw a veil of legal legitimacy on it. And that legal legitimacy, as you hear from the professor whos responded to the whole memo, which is a complete butcher job and mismatch of a bunch of legal stuff that at the end of the day was being used to orchestrate this fraud. Hmm. John eastman of course was also a little more outspoken than others. People say, i was just lawyering. Well, you got up in front of the crowd on jan 6th. You pushed this speed. Theres evidence in the indictment about things that he very foolishly i would say admitted in writing were false and resubmitted them to the court any way. On the other hand like everyone else he hasnt been charged and if charges hes legally presumed innocent. We gave his lawyer ample time to make the case this week. I want to get your reaction. We havent gone back to this since hes been on. We put together the full highlights. If you saw the interview youre going to see the highlights. If you didnt, youre going to get the gist. Lets look at this interview with charles burnham, his lawyer. I dont think its exploiting the violence at all. His response that night was to say, lets continue to stop and delay. In other words, to be on the side of further stopping it, having that been caused by the violence. Do you see how that could be a problem for him in this case . No, no, not at all. Not at all. Donald trump lost the 2020 election. You accept that fact . Well, look, theres a lot of large portion of the country that has issues with the 2020 election. A large portion of the country believes in ghosts or horoscopes. Im asking you, do you accept the results of the election that donald trump lost . Well, im just here as an attorney representing a client. The Electoral College also voted to lock in bidens win and trumps loss. That was december 14th, 2020. Do you accept that as the valid final step that the Electoral College took . Well, again, im here as an attorney representing a client. It was regrettable to make an understatement that it was interrupted as it was. Which crimes do you think he was worried about being indicted for . Any reasonable person urn those circumstances as john eastman was would only prudently take that step. You see that as kind of standard. Everybody want a pardon. It would seem especially since hes a lawyer this he thought he had criminal exposure. Oh, not at all, not at all. Most people who leave government without doing so suggest some exposure. The pardon if you accept it is itself tantamount to being guilty. He looked at history, looked at the historic examples, presented the various options and recommended at the end what he thought was the best option consistent with the law, to delay the certification. He didnt do just that. How is it good faith if he reverses himself and gives advice up in a way that of course fed, part of the plot to overthrow the election. You brainstorm dork research, talk to other people, and eventually perhaps your mind changes where at the beginning you have a different opinion. This is utterly mundane. Its not mundane to say the correct version of the law in october and reverse yourself with the coup version. Thats some of what we heard. We turn to the veteran prosecutor. What do you think of the types of arguments and defenses that eastmans lawyers making . Two words jumped out at me, aside from the fact that he didnt believe about the election. Reasonable and prudent. It wasnt reasonable for john eastman as a lawyer to pursue a theory that the election was rigged. In the face of evidence from the Attorney General of the United States, from the administrations own person in charge of the election who said it was the safest one yet, and in face of all the disputes that were brought before courts that repeatedly denied and rejected any claims of voter fraud. So that wasnt reasonable, and based on that information that he had that it wasnt reasonable, it was completely imprudent to pursue a legal theory and butcher that theory to pursue a false claim. What do you think any of these individuals would do if the doj did call and say, do you want to be more helpful or cooperative . We learned things in these interview. I have had lawyers say no comment. This problem is that is its a comment sometimes. He didnt do that. I want to say, to his credit he said, ill tell you exactly whats happening. This is a lawyer like anyone we fact checkheck, but he said the have not gotten a target letter. Do you think theres space for them to interact if they wanted to . Theres always time to interact right up until you get in the courtroom, and everyone then, so its never too late. I think whats happening here is the investigation is continuing. I dont think they want to rush to go after the Unindicted Coconspirators because then you have the two cases going on at the same time and then you have to explain, why didnt you merge them to begin with . I dont think he has to do that. Let them go ahead with trump and let them continue to develop more evidence against others in necessary. Broaden the scheme and build up more proof, which is completely appropriate. Final question, if you do come around and later indict Unindicted Coconspirators, what do you find to be the tip wall typical window . Its case by case. Theres a whole bunch of factors were not privy to. This is when they dont answer cant question. Its no comment. Months not years . Cant be years. You run out of statute. I think its months. In a sense, everyone though jack smith is operating in an unusual environment with other cases, it would be reasonable if hes going to move on these people it would be within three to nine months, not 24. Theres no torch blowing his underside that he has to move quickly on this. I think hes got some time, and he can proceed a pace prudently and reasonably and, and well have to see where it goes. David kelly on more than one topic, thank you, sir. When we come back, we turn to a Stinging Rebuke against republicans in ohio. Important story, next. S in ohio. Important story, next. There are places youd like to be. Like here. And here. Not so much here. If you have chronic kidney disease, farxiga can help you keep living life. Farxiga and farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure, which can lead to dialysis. Farxiga can cause serious side effects including dehydration, Urinary Tract or Genital Yeast infections in women and men, and low blood sugar. Ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may lead to death. A rare lifethreatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. 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Republicans claiming maybe this wasnt a loss on abortion since the Supreme Court gutted roe and the issues plagued them in popularity. Critics say that was disingenuous. It was a sneaky tactic. Here is ohios republican Secretary Of State admitting it. We have an opportunity to raise the threshold to 60 . Some people say this is all about abortion. Well, you know what, im pro life. I think many of you are as well. This is 100 about keeping a radical pro abortion amendment out of our constitution. 100 . And he oversees the elections there. Since the Supreme Court gutted roe, many of the things that conservatives claimed have been completely debunked. They would end the National Debate or wouldnt go further to restrict Womens Movement across state lines or a lot of other things many its all building up a right Wing Pressure Campaign and people are rejecting from kansas to ohio. Seven states to put abortion on the ballot since the court gutted roe. All seven states supporting Abortion Rights in measures that test that. So theres a political aspect to this because Supreme Court confirmations have become even more political than they used to be and the senate is involved in that. Hypocrisy aspect to that which still in many places, males trying to regulate the bodies of other people. Ethical aspect, we think about what democracy means, it was a double loss for republicans in ohio. Number one on the issue of choices i just walked through. Number two on gaming the system. You know, we dont pick the news around here. We cover it. And there has been a Theme Reoccurring about people who game the system, we talked about it in a different context last night. But whether it works. When people are vigilant and people are informed that kind of gaming of democracy keeps running into a brick wall. Ill be back with you tonight with one more thing. 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Election night in america that can only mean one thing. Legend at the map, steve kornacki. Go bing bong. Bing bong. Thats it. Here we are trucking. This is what it looks like when we do a news show from the road. Adrenaline pumping. Youve been great. But i would be more happy if this was our view right here. Were in brooklyn. Yeah, were in brooklyn. If its friday, you know its hey. So you can always find me at arimelber. Com. Thats one way ive connected with and heard from a lot of you. The last two folks came up to me. They started the conversation. And i did what reporters do, i put them on video. Thanks for being here. Ill see you tomorrow. The reidout with joy reid starts right now. Tonight on the reidout if were mourning anything this morning, it is the loss of democracy. Under this tyranny, elected officials can be removed simply for political purposes and by a whim of the governor. And no matter how you feel about me, you should not be okay with that. Monique was elected State Attorney by the voters of florida. Now ron desantis is using his