Legislatures, asking state governors, asking State Elector officials to do the right thing. In fact, even asking Vice President pence was protected by free speech. Well, former Vice President pence did not dispute trumps right to ask. But he is once again drawing attention to what he was asked to do a day before january 6th, he came back as his lawyers did. He said we want you to launch those votes outright. They were asking me to overturn the election. I had no right to overturn the election. I know we did our duty that day. Well, the federal judge Tanya Chutkan in d. C. Has set a timeline for tomorrow at five pm when the trump team must respond if they object to the governments request for a protective order on evidence in this case, a request prompted by trumps activity on social media as of late, effectively setting up the first showdown of what is expected to be a protracted court battle. Now, the indictment remains the top story on the front pages of the New York Times and the washington post, as members of trumps circle are expected to go from top page two top witnesses. Possible State Charges against trump in fulton county, georgia. A new cbs news poll shows 51 of americans believe that trump plans to stay in the presidency after he lost in 2020 through illegal and unconstitutional activities. Only 20 believe he did not plan to stay beyond the end of his term. We now have several reporters and analysts in place to cover all of these details and developments. Lets start with nbcs Julie Tsirkin in columbia, South Carolina, where trump spoke last night. And, julie, how is he responding to all of these reports. Reporter he is responding, richard, as you might expect, despite this protective order request being issued by Special Counsel jack smith, he is still going on the defense, and even the offense on the Campaign Trail, speaking back to back at gop fundraisers, to crowds in alabama on friday in South Carolina last night, just a couple of miles off this road where we were there about 1300 attendees from the states Republican Party, and they applauded him, they cheered him. He railed against the Special Counsel himself. Take a listen to what he said himself, and we will talk about it on the other side. The ranged jack smith, hes a deranged human being. You take a look at that thing, you say that guy is a sick man. People attacking prosecutors this is a Political Campaign right now. This prosecution was instituted by President Biden, and in the middle of that campaign, people are going to speak out. My role is not to address anything about prosecutors. Now, who we just heard from is one of the former president ss lawyers doing an appearance on all Media Networks today, speaking to our choctaw this morning, defending his client, the former president , who on the Campaign Trail said that this is about his poll numbers, where hes continuously climbing, he is currently leading the closest rival, desantis of florida, by double digits. His supporters who i spoke to all weekend as well backing that up, saying this is political, that the timing of this is questionable. Joined a half years, or a year and a half, after january 6th, before the 2024 election they gets very close, around the corner, and so, he is continuing to say that this is nothing but a political matter. I want you to take a listen, though, to what the chief democrat, one of the Top Democrats of the January 6th Select Committee In The House who spent close to two years going through all of the evidence here, what he had to say to counter that claim from trump. Watch. He conspired to defraud the American People out of our right to an honest election by substituting the real Legal Process we have under federal and state law with counterfeit electors. I mean, the people who are in jail for several years for counterfeiting one vote, if they try to vote illegally. And once, he tried to steal the entire election. And his lawyers are up there saying, it is just a matter of him expressing his First Amendment rights. Thats deranged. Thats a deranged argue. Yes, trumps lawyers, Trumps Campaign, spokespeople, are continuously saying that the president is just expressing himself, that he is using the First Amendment to talk about this case, to talk about how he feels about being prosecuted for a third indictment here, of course pushing back on that protective order, trying to limit what he could say and discos about this case when it comes to the evidence. But all of that is set to take place tomorrow night, as you mentioned, with a judge ruling that they have until five pm to comply with this request. We will see what happens if the Campaign Continues to delay the trial from getting started. Nbcs Julie Tsirkin for us in columbia, South Carolina. Julie, thank you so much for that. Lets go over to katie phang an hour for the state prosecutor, host of the Katie Phang Show here on msnbc. She was 24 hours a day. Danny cevallos, similar timeframe. Trial lawyer for nbc news and msnbc legal analyst. Katie, to you first on this, this is a tweet. Lets start with that. The tweet that led to this protective order, the Judge Setting that monday deadline for the trump teams response. But what is the issue here . What ultimately is the main concern of prosecutors, and why does the judge pushing for this five pm deadline in a very serious way. And what happens of the trump team doesnt respond by 5 00 . Immediately a total of thoughts, richard, number one, the protective order is not unusual to be had now what is being sought by the government specifically is the ability to limit defending trumps ability to disseminate the discovery that he is going to get a lot of it in this particular case, with jack smith. There is a subsection, though, on this particular protective order that deals with the idea that if trump is allowed to have a Chilling Effect on witnesses, further dissemination or the spreading of this discovery, that that would be a bad thing for the prosecution. As such, Something Like that, trumps truth social media post, thats a problem. The language that is coming out of donald trump, thats a problem. There is a very fine line that you have to thread between First Amendment free speech rights, and his ability to not lacks politically about his situation, and the ability to intimidate, witness influence, you know . Affect the outcome of the case because hes trying to basically scare people into submission. You have to be very careful as a judge. But to answer very quickly, richard, the five pm deadline, the judge said, well, you should have taken the time that trump council, to confirm with the doj, send me a red line of what problems you have in the order from the doj, and do that by monday. And i think its necessary, i will send a hearing for you guys to argue about it back and forth. But otherwise, Tiktok Tiktok goes the clock. And august 28th, shes gonna set a trial date on this case. So, she will set a trial date. Is there any Contempt Of Court on this, if they do not respond . Do expect that to happen, katie . Well, it is an order by the court. And if you do not abide by the court order, certainly, Contempt Of Court is an opportunity for the court. Now, with the judge go that far . Who knows, she may try to set a tone from the getgo. That says im not gonna suffer, and from what we, know she doesnt suffer fools in this particular district. So, i think if you are trumps counsel, you better stop talking all over the news today, and maybe you better be doing that red line. Danny, we understand from just history what the strategy is from typical trump legal teams. What is trumps Teams Argument this time against this request for a protective order and wanting a delay of days . Really, at the core, they are just saying, we dont have enough time. As the Justice Department, the doj saying in their filing, which is well within, but starkey filing, very rare for doj to allow any snark but, basically say, we stand with our finger on the send button ready to send this discovery. The thing thats holding this up is the defense, saying we need more time. But they are filing a multipage motion, saying we need more time. And they could have used that time when they filed the multi page motion to actually respond. Now, of course, i also see the defenses position which is whats the difference . A few more days, we just need to respond. And really, that is ultimately a judgment call by the judge. And this happens to be a judge that doesnt see a need for the additional days. And other judge easily could have seen this, well, whats another four days . And id rather suspect that this was not one of the most highprofile some criminal cases in american history. It might be just for that reason alone. So, this is really a minor dispute. The trump team will likely argue and comply with the order because its far better to avoid drawing the judges at this stage this early in the game. All right, this is indictment number three. Lets look forward to potentially whats happening in georgia. And, katie, that investigation is ongoing. And you said if trump is indicted in georgia, they would treat him like any other person. But the fingerprints, handcuffs, is it Standard Operating Procedure here . And if it is, would they change that for trump, since the government literally knows his every move . Georgia is gonna be very, very by the book in this case. Standard Operating Procedure is to be handcuffed, mugshot it, fingerprinted, all that stuff. He hasnt had that happen to him, and being donald trump. Fani willis has made it clear, thats what theyre gonna do what donald trump provides and fulton county, georgia, although i think its going to happen. I think its a foregone conclusion. In the event trump is indicted, he will go through that process. And theres a reason why. Funny willis has been very clear from day number one, she says no one is above the law. So, she wants to make sure that there is no favorable conduct, or treatments that are gonna be afforded to trump. And frankly, everybody should be treating him as not former president donald trump, but criminal defendant trump. He is just joe citizen now. He may have held a job title before. But right now, is gonna go to the criminal Justice System either on a state or federal level just like everybody else is being charged with a crime. Danny, your thoughts . Yes, my thoughts, i agree completely. And fani willis has indicated from the beginning that she is doing this by the book, a good point and that is that she took this case and routed it through what was essentially an advisory grand jury. That signals to me, you want to be extra certain that everybody understands that if there is an indictment, that is not only went through one grand jury, but a Second Grand Jury composed of citizens, peers, people in the community. And that this was not a onesided prosecutorial decision. Now, as the Defense Attorney, i have to talk about how easy it is to get a case through a grand jury, if the prosecutor is motivated to get an indictment. Look, if fani all us can be criticized for not following the book, she has followed the book. Shes followed extra procedures. Knowing that Special Grand Jury is now the basis of the trump teams motions, for example, to disqualify her, and preclude evidence from that Special Grand Jury. So, look, it is just a defense looking for every angle they could get. I would do the same thing. Again, fani willis, arguably, she created a risk i should say, there was always a chance that the defense was going to strike out of this. But the fact that she went through two grand juries, i think, will secure that at least she left it up to the citizens, and that it wasnt just her on partisan motivation, whatever that maybe. And a fairly tight one, so far at least in the last year, one of the year where is mark meadows . Katie, we are just waiting that the Wall Street Journal this morning that particular publication raising questions about meadows himself. They quoted marc short say no doubt meadows was an essential person trump leaned on to hear a legal advice from. And labeling meadows as a, quote, ringleader, adding his response from, meadows calling it useless, uninformed by facts, speculation. So, katie, where is mark meadows in this latest indictment . Is he a cooperator . Do we know . Ive always said he is cooperating with the government. And part of this hes been laying so low, like completely low profile, he has not been out there. Hes been parroting trump Talking Points that the trump acolytes and the sycophants to. Number one, number two, we call that meadows has his own exposure on the state level for some voter fraud issues. He also has his own exposure through the january 6th investigation, as well as some other potential, you know, culpability based upon what we have seen through these various investigations. If i am mark meadows, and i like the central, you know, hub of this will, with all the spokes of this criminal conduct yeah, i mean, how could he not have been the guy who was filtering information . How is he not the guy that is actually coordinating . He is the guy. And if thats the case, he has incentive to cooperate. And if i am him, i have been cooperating this whole time because i dont want to go to jail, period, end of story. Danny, why would trump backers be scared here, or be concerned about meadows . And by the way, it is welldocumented that he was involved in many of these allegations and Discussion Points around Donald Trumps charges in this indictment. Mark meadows was a central figure last summer in the january 6th committee hearings. He is virtually absent from this indictment, at least a name. Maybe theres some evidence that he provided a surface in the indictment. But that mere fact alone tells me that in all likelihood, mark meadows, he is cooperating. And why wouldnt he . We had a lot of discussions about, are these people in trumps orbit cooperating . Just playing the odds, these are exactly the people who would cooperate. These are exactly the people, and the government knows it, who if you said to them, they bear any scintilla of criminal responsibility, theyre not gonna take the floor for donald trump. There are loyalists who will. But folks like meadows, a lot of people who were in his orbit when he was in the white house, they have their own careers to worry about. The government is realizing, these are cooperators, maybe they dont need to threaten criminal prosecutions, or just willing to say, im so glad you finally showed up. Heres some information about trump. Danny, Michael Cohen also adding, what about Jared Kushner . What about him . Im certain that, look i dont know it, but i expect that doj has talked to Jared Kushner, or try to talk to jack kushner. He is one of these figures that doesnt make a lot of appearances here. And maybe he doesnt have that much information about criminality to offer to the jackson team. But ultimately, he is a question for just as much as mark meadows is, whether he has a prominent role, and whether, again, like mark meadows, Jared Kushner, when these cases go to trial. Will we see him walk down the aisle in the courtroom and take the Witness Stand . And that is way off their decisions, still something the og is gonna have to decide. Its mostly guesswork at this stage. Katie, quickly, lets talk about years, potential sentencing, what is your vision on that . What is possible for trump here . Listen, i know this issue, about whether or not you could put a former president with a secret Service Detail in a prison, i offered this solution the other day. Put him in solitary confinement. And then, he wont have exposure to the general population. And then, he wont be a safety risk. A security risk. Its absurd to think that you cannot put somebody who ends up going through the process, is convicted and sentenced. I think its absurd that you put him on anything but a federal penitentiary where he deserves to be. Again, we do not treat him differently than we do any of us. If we were prosecuted, richard, and we were sentenced, and we were having to do with a time, we should do it exactly where everybody else has to do it. Danny . Just about the sentence alone, if for example he is convicted of obstruction, just a quick look at the sentencing guidelines, you dont look at the macro sentence, it doesnt give you a forecast. But just the offense level, 15 to 21 months, that would be the recommended sentence. But once he starts the addons, the guidelines, for example, did he substantially obstruct the proceedings . I wonder. Probably a judge would conclude that hes convicted that he did. And then, the numbers start going up dramatically. You get up to 70 months, 87 months. And then, keep in mind, if he is convicted on any of these other cases, he will not be a first time offender, which is a major factor when it comes to federal sentencing. Federal sentencing is no joke, and in all likelihood, if he is convicted in either of these federal cases, he will be doing prison time. And i predict his attorneys will argue, and his Defense Attorney will argue for house arrest. Arithmetic, not his friend at the moment. Thank you both very much, Danny Cevallos and katie phang, appreciate it. Trumps attorney on offense this morning, explaining his defensive strategy. Who is buying and selling . And former congresswoman Stephanie Murphy who worked on the january 6th Committee Talks to me about that when we are back in 60. Dryness and frizz that keeps coming back, could be damaged hair that cant retain moisture. You need pantenes miracle rescue deep conditioner. Its filled with provitamins to help hair lock in moisture, visibly repairing six months of damage in just one use, with no weighdown. Guaranteed, or your money back. For hair that looks healthy and stays healthy. If you know, you know its pantene. Im saving with liberty mutual, mom. They customize your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. You could save 700 dollars just by switching. Ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. On the top of the pile oh. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. In order to have a violation of law, you have to have criminal intent. And in this case, corrupt intent. And what that means is that you have to have some desire to do something unlawful. If your attorney is telling you that you have a right to petition congress, then that completely eliminates any criminal intent. New today, Donald Trumps lawyer publicly giving his defense on meet the press, arguing that his role in the events leading up to january 6th were not criminal. Joining me now is former democratic congresswoman Stephanie Murphy of florida, a former member of the house select january 6th committee. Representative, thanks for being here with us. What do you say to that defense that what trump did was not criminal . This is about the First Amendment. Thanks for having me on. Its great to be with you, richard. I thought that performance was a masterful political spin, masquerading as meaningful defense. Look, i think, you know, we are learning an awful lot based on what the Special Prosecutor has been able to discover that we didnt even know within january 6th committee. And when you want to vote about that, there was a tidbit within the indictment that indicates that the president wanted to pursue, when he was asked by the Vice President he said, you are too honest. Which means that he knows what he is asking you to do, do something dishonest, unconstitutional. This is gonna be a case for the Special Prosecutor to press in the court of law. And i am certainly hopeful that there will be able to find a guilty verdict. Representative, when you go through the latest indictment, you probably are remembering your former workspace, focusing on the january 6th committee as you were a part of. Whats your perspective here on the role the committee played in getting to this moment . And how did smith build on that . I think that the january 6th Committee Really provided the overarching narrative of exactly what happened in the run up to and on january six. We were able in the court of Public Opinion tell folks that this wasnt a riot and that got Out Of Control on january 6th. But rather, it was the Culmination Of A Multi Prolonged Intent by the former president to overturn the outcome of a free and fair election, by pressuring state and local officials, as well as pressuring federal officials. And we were able to tell this story and i think what was a consumable way, using the media, and using the words of republicans, many of whom are witnesses. They provided a lot of testimony that really shed a light on the overall scheme. What i was excited to see in the indictment was that the Special Prosecutor was able to access testimony from folks we were not able to. So, Vice President pence who took contemporaneous notes, was willing to speak to them and provided some interesting tips. Im excited to learn more. When you look into the january 6th committees criminal referrals made to the doj, incitement of insurrection, notably missing from the charges that have ultimately been brought. Whats your reaction to that . Are you satisfied with that decision . I trust the department of justice to identify the charges that they think they have the evidence to secure a guilty verdict. However, i think for those average americans who were lied to by people in power, by the former president , and who went to the capitol on january 6th, and then were prosecuted and convicted of seditious conspiracy, insurrection. They are being held accountable for their acts. And in this country, it shouldnt be that average americans are held accountable in the elite getaway. I think its really important that the powerful people who were involved in the overall scheme are also held accountable. You mentioned those who might be getting away, in your words, the indictment, as you know, describes six uncharged coconspirators at the moment. But as you may have heard, at the start of this show, where is mark meadows, the former white house chief of staff . What about Jared Kushner . Whats your thoughts . My hope is that those people are cooperating with the Special Prosecutor. Mark meadows, as you know, did not cooperate with the january 6th committee. And my hope is that his absence is because he is somebody who is cooperating. Cassidy hutchinson who was his assistant provided us with a lot of information and insight into exactly what was happening in the white house in the months before january 6th. And i imagine that mark meadows will be able to provide even more detail about what was going on, and what the former president was doing as he was moving towards january 6th. Representative, dozens of House Democrats are pushing for trumps federal trials to be televised, and they are going that this would bolster Public Acceptance of the outcome. Now, you are just a National Security specialist at the department of defense. Would it be more important for National Security reasons for trials to be televised, or would it be more important for it not to be televised . The need for transparency, it would be good to see it televised. But i leave that decision up to the department of justice and to the courts. I do think, no, that i worry about the use of this case to continue to divide americans and to continue to stoke anger against the institutions and against the individuals who are seeking accountability. We know from our january 6th select committee or collect our witnesses were contacted by the former president s network. And there was efforts at tampering with witnesses. So i want to see this case prosecuted in a way that will yield the best justice, basically the outcome that we will get justice for the American People. Democratic representative Stephanie Murphy of florida, thank you so much for your time. Have a good sunday. Thank you history is unfolding in alaska, as buildings and trees are swept away, more alarming, what are the causes of this catastrophe. 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Priscilla, the river is receding, but the threat is not over. How much of a search they experience . Yeah, richard, that flooding is continuing there after the minden hall river crested overnight at 14. 9 feet. That is a new record, nearly three feet higher than the previous record that had been set. You play that dramatic video of the home that collapsed into the water. Officials say that there were several homes and trees that were swept away by this raging water. The water is starting to recede, but officials are saying that there is still the danger of erosion along the riverbank, which means that we could still see more homes collapsing into the river, more structural damage, even as those waters are receding. All of this flooding began on saturday as a Suicide Basin in the city of juneau began to recede, and that water began rushing through that river. There were a evacuations that were held, there were roads that were flooded and had to be closed, and officials there were really warning people to avoid that area if they could, if they were trying to get Emergency Vehicles in and out of the city. Some good news, officials have not reported any deaths to us, so it appears that people have heeded those warnings and gotten out in order to preserve life. Certainly, dealing with a lot of structural damage there. Richard . Pitchers in that video, just to the right of that building, it looks to be a multi family home ready to go. A lot of concern that. Priscilla, thank you for that. Hey vexing question in the trump legal saga. Bob, where is mark meadows . Why is he not mention much in the latest document . We asked whether mike pence is too honest. Okay everyone, okay everyone yaaay woo hoo ensure with 25 vitamins and minerals and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. Try killing bugs the worryfree way. Not the other way. 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Woman why did we choose safelite . We were loading our suv when. Crack safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when theyd arrive with a replacement we could trust. Thats service the way we want it. President trump singers safelite repair, safelite replace. I had no right to overturn the election. Anyone who puts themself over the constitution should never be president of the united states. One thing that mr. Pence has never said is that he thought President Trump was acting criminally. Indeed, Vice President pence is an attorney. If he had any point said, or thought that mr. Trump, President Trump was acting unlawfully, or contrary to criminal law, he wouldve said that. New today, former Vice President , pence, speaking out against former President Trump in the wake of the 2020 election indictment. Trumps lawyers pushing back, as you saw. Their claim offenses never said anything that the president and was criminal. Joining us now is olivia troye, former adviser to mike pence, former national official. Thanks for joining us today, olivia. So there have been a lot of critics saying that he should say last. How do you interpret what the former Vice President said this week against President Trump . I have at times defended pence. I have been very proud of the fact that he showed tremendous courage on january six, but ive also been frustrated with him because i have wanted him to be more vocal about the facts in the environment under trump, in the lead up to that day. As well as the aftermath of it. Now, i think there is an official legal proceeding underway, i think that has opened the path for pence to speak more freely, a think he can use that as a top cover that hes been leading towards political, yes we can speak to the voters and say, look, this guy is now being held accountable, or going through Legal Proceedings to be held accountable for what he did, and all im doing is upholding the constitution, which is my job. Hes not leading that narrative. Mike pence was heckled by protesters partly because of his comments so far at a Campaign Event in New Hampshire on friday, lets listen to that. You pull the constitution. You committed treason. You committed treason. Mike pence on the bench. Olivia, how critical might be pence for the case against trump, might that intimidation from Trump Supporters affect him along the way . What you saw happening there is what i think is to be expected when you have trumps followers and supporters who are consistently been fed a ton of lies, and a ton of disinformation about the reality of whats happened here in terms of the 2020 election, for pence, its critical to this entire proceeding, i think his testimony, its firsthand, he loved it. He face circumstances with trump, but i think he is the key witness, i think donald trump knows this. I think well see donald trump continue to lash out. It doesnt play in his favor in the court of law, but he is not one for keeping his mouth shut, to his own detriment. I think youll see the threats come, up that is how donald trump reacts and stand up in ten the truth against him. That is how this machine works, and i was watching some of the comments with trumps lawyer, and he says, pence is never said, this he kind of said that. It reminded me of an express conference where they came out and attacked him publicly, almost verbatim. Well olivia never raise these concerns, she never said that she had concerns about whats happening in these times, whats happening, things like that. Its almost like clockwork, its the same playbook they use over and over. That seems to be working in the polls right now. You were talking about the indictment, Calling Trump to honest. The former president saying the former Vice President has gone to the dark side. Claiming, quote, i never told pence to put me above the constitution, or that mike was too honest. Now is this going to force pence to take a stronger stance against trump . How do you see the dynamic between the two plain out in the coming months . I think it is. I think that pence is going to have to respond to this. Hes going to have to respond forcefully. I think he has a responsibility to do so, because it matters so much to the country. I think that this could make a difference for the Republican Party still, who have failed because many people continue to support donald trump, especially in republican circles, unfortunately. Pence is telling the truth, donald trump is aware that he is a key witness, so donald trump will lump him along with the deep state, right . Weve seen this before, he will be the disgruntled, employee will come next. Whats next, the coffee boy . Is thats whats coming as his Vice President . These are the repetitive massive lies and things that they do, but unfortunately, it works when you have an entire Propaganda Machine that repeat sets. Olivia troye, thank you for your time today. Definitely appreciate your thoughts and analysis. Thank you for your time. A new report that says that democrats have fact based, fresh evidence to be optimistic going into 2024. 2024. Ed turkey. Perfect for when youre subbed out of the game. And if we profer it, we know youll prefer it too. Nothing better than a sub, sub. vo Verizon Small Business days are coming. Wfrom august 7th to the 13th. Now is the time to partner with our experts. Get started today with verizon business. Its your business. Its your verizon. Want a smarter way to mop . Introducing the new swiffer powermop. An allinone Cleaning Tool with hundreds of Scrubbing Strips that absorb and lock dirt away, for a mop and bucket clean in half the time. Mop smarter with the new swiffer powermop. Welcome back. New reaction today from the Biden Harris Campaign on Donald Trumps latest indictment. This comes as the president and the administration have been shine away from discussing trump numerous legal battles. Nbcs allie raffa as with the president in wilmington, delaware. Ali, what are we hearing from Trumps Campaign manager . Richard, the biden team up until now has sort of taken, essentially, this fallacy lands on talking about the former president s ongoing legal woes. The president actually directing his staff in aids should not comment on this legal case for a couple of reasons, you know, politically, he doesnt want to appear as if hes wants to take advantage of the situation, and legally, he wants to respect the independents that hes found in the Justice Department would have under his presidency. Now were hearing from his 2024 campaign manager, julie rodriguez, in an interview that she did with her own alicia and undoes. She not only gives us a little bit more by acknowledging these legal cases, she also talks about the biden Team Strategy as they continue to unfold, take a listen. We know that these important cases will continue to move forward, and theyll take their course of action. For, us its making sure that were taking turns to lower energy costs. Focus what matters most to them right. Now and continuing to ensure that they understand the choices that are in front of them, and the contrast of the kind, of you know, extremism that were seeing from trump, desantis, from the entire field. Versus, you, know whats words are resonating with the American People. Investing in our communities. The biden team continuing the strategy. Not necessarily working behind the scenes, there are certainly working under less of a spotlight in the former president s garnering right now. Now some biden allies say that this strategy of silence isnt sustainable long term, but richard, for right, now it looks at the biden team is continuing the strategy going forward. Elie raffa, think you for the latest reporting. Lets bring in bookie, host of the undetected podcast and a former member of president obamas 21st Century Policing task force and republican strategist, both msnbc political analyst. Good to see both of you. Susan, democrats have a reason to be optimistic going into 2024, with some attention from vox. This year, lovely new candidates have performed better than expected and 38 special elections so far. Including in areas that are considered republican strongholds. What do you think, should the signal to republicans, and the numbers are quite, big were talking about 20 Percentage Points, 24 Percentage Points above average. Yeah, whats very a trusting is that its happening now in 2023, or 2022, as republicans should have been gaining momentum as a referendum against the president s. The white house, i should say. When i look at these numbers, i would say democrats shouldnt get too comfortable, but they should be relieved that theyre seeing turnout and the numbers that they are, thats critically important. The other issue, its kind of a two sided issue, is biden also won because centerright black kids who voted against trump and came out for biden. That was only about a five or 7 swing, but thats what got biden over the top. This is in addition to getting the most votes ever in history. Democrats may have to be careful as to how theyre going to suppress some vote and get other votes. To that local versus national, those very voters that were voting for biden didnt necessarily vote, it couldve gone are. Why do you think democrats are showing space remembering that, and can President Biden take some of the positives that development, despite his somewhat depressed polls at the moment . Or even pulse . I think we should recognize that the american electorate is paying attention. They are connecting the dots between some of the things that weve been seen happening in terms of policy all around this country. Theyve been looking at how a 50year project to overturn roe v. Wade is connected to the recent gutting of affirmative action. Seeing the same person, edward bloom, who is behind that effort, is now behind an effort to sue the fearless van, which is an organization that is working to fund women of color, entrepreneurs, around the country. Theyre connecting the dots between those kinds of things and what desantis is doing down in florida, and what republican governors, mayors, older, people mother doing around the country to try to replicate local principalities. I say all of this to say that the American People are paying attention, and they recognize that if we dont take action now, these culture wars that were publicans are continuously way jim, threaten democracy and freedom everywhere. If we get serious about it now, we can make sure to defeat it in the years ahead. Lets move to trump being indicted for the third time in four months, sparking some backlash from the gop. Some republicans are celebrating the new charges. Lets listen. Im actually really excited over this arraignment because it ensures that President Trump will be the 47th president of the united states. The American People are sick of this. On the face of, this this is a twisted interpretation given the historical nature of what were talking about. How much does it reflect what a lot of republicans, are Trump Supporters, are thinking today . It is rather twist, said i guess thats why the ballpark has never been called a political mastermind. What it is reflective of, when we see the poll numbers that donald trump has among the republican primary voters, is that his message of taken away it being about him, and it being about you, its how he set up. And protecting you. Theyre really trying to indict you. That is really chilean with a certain amount of republican voters. Based voters for donald trump. It is getting deeper, hes it doesnt seem that the indictments really matter. Now, that being said, it certainly will have a big, it will hurt him very much going into the general election. Yes, i dont know why donald trump needs to have this primary voters all jacked up, if theyre really going to cost him the election come 2024. Brittani, how did democrats respond to this . Today stay quiet as the president is right now . Whats the approach to counter the i would love to treat him like hes delusional, and shes not a political mastermind. She may not me. But she did get elected, as to donald trump. We would be wise to take these threats to freedom and democracy very seriously. As with the democrats. Look, i understand that every democratic message is not going to come directly from the pulpit of the white house, or out of the mouths of President Biden, and Vice President harris. There are plenty of democratic strategist, people who are elected and go to other positions, people who have the platforms to make sure that once again, were connecting the dots between these indictments and the position of our country and this moment. If this indictment, if these multiple indictments do not get to move forward, then democracy itself is under threat. We should take that seriously all the way through the election. Weve seen republicans employ that kind of Projection Messaging before, right . Weve seen this idea that black lives matter activists under real racist because we are out there talking about issues of systemic racism. Unfortunately, that message does work with far too many people. Its an old tactic to project on to other people, that what you are doing yourself. That is exactly what Lauren Boebert is doing here. That message is resonating with far too many people. Wise people need to make sure that theyre showing, up showing out on election dates locally and nationally around the country. Democrats, yes, have to be sounding the alarm that democracy is under threat. Susan, you know, if the country is splintering right now, along party lines, and also when we look at Trump Supporters versus others, do you think there needs to be a political resolution to the donald trump question before all these legal matters get results . What without look like . Im not sure what a political resolution but look like but i do know that what democrats need to start doing is pushing these issues into the local races. Lauren boebert wart make a difference nationally but start asking those republicans from swing districts, how do you feel about the indictment . Do you agree with your colleague . Bring it home. When it comes to any type of political resolution, i think that based on this calendar, theyre on the Campaign Trail. Thank you both, have a good weekend. 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A Breaking News story right now, what, we have a ton of mulch. New reporting that israeli prime minister, benjamin netanyahu, saying that he will pull back on parts of his controversial judicial overhaul. Netanyahu speaking with Bloomberg News earlier today in a concession that could be a major victory for opponents who say that his original judicial plans would undermine israels democracy along with checks and balances. I dont think we should move from perhaps the activist Judicial Court in the planet to get to a point where the legislature can just knock out any decision that the court makes. There has to be a balance. Thats what were trying to do. Im absolutely sure that israel will come out stable, and successful, democratic. Netanyahu saying that he will now only work next to change the makeup of the judge selection committee, same that ideological balance needs to be restored to the election of judges. All right, that does it for me on this edition of alex witt reports. Alex is back next saturday at noon eastern, my friend Yasmin Vossoughian continues our coverage right now. Hi, everyone. Good afternoon. Im sunday show blitz. Donald trumps lawyer hitting all of the morning shows, laying out how he plans to keep the former president from going to jail on the election interference case. The defense is quite mp