Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240704

So were going to do it the way we try to do it around here, which is with the facts and details first, and then well discuss them together. Todays proceeding began around 4 15 p. M. Eastern. Defendant trump was seated with his lawyers, just as he was during his last arraignment. You may recall. This is a sketch from that day in a Federal Court in florida. That was how he looked then. Todays arraignment adjourned so recently that we actually dont have those actual Court Sketches yet. We will get them and we will bring them to you on msnbc at whatever hour we get them. Lets put it like this when this year began, no former president had ever been indicted and arraigned. Tonight were reporting on Defendant Trumps third arraignment in four months. So he does know this process. Today he was digitally fingerprinted, submitted details like his birthday and Social Security number william a know that special counsel jack smith was in the courtroom because our reporters spotted him, seated roughly, were told, about ten feet from donald trump. Mr. Smith went from where we saw him earlier this week, giving a concise but clear statement of what he says these charges are, why election conspiracy matters, why it was charged, why he wants a speedy trial. He went the from there, down the block to sit in on it today. We can also tell you some other washington, d. C. Current judges came and sat to observe. What did we learn in the arraignment . If you heard our live coverage, you got some of this. Weve put it together in organized fashion. The youre coming home from work, weve got you covered right now. Trumps attorney spoke at the beginning to say, quote, President Trump is president excuse me. President trump is present. Bit of a tongue twister. My point there is it is not a term that was echoed in court. The magistrate addressing him, good afternoon, mr. Trump. Its one of several signs that this individual, who once led the federal government, including the Justice Department prosecuting him, is a citizen. Then what happened . The defendant responded pretty respectfully saying, yes, your honor, donald j. Trump, john. Referring to his middle name, and saying he was 77. As expected, donald trump, the defendant, stood and submitted his plea today, and we will tell you what he said in court not guilty. A judge then laid out the conditions of Donald Trumps release before trial, that as a defendant he will not currently be under plans to be incarcerated. He will be free before trial so long as he does not commit a crime this year. The judge raising specific examples, telling Defendant Trump in court, quote, it is a crime to try to influence a juror. The prosecutor on behalf of jack smiths office said the defendant must not communicate about the facts of the case with any witness except counsel, and that is when the judge told Defendant Trump, youve heard your conditions of release, it is important you comply to your conditions of release, and asked, do understand these warnings and consequences, sir in trump, the defendant nodded. This arraignment lasted about 28 minutes. That is actually longer than usual, and there were more exchanges than usual, and im going to get to some of those as well. This is part one of our breakdown for you. We also learned what the next court date is august 28th, monday. Mark your calendars if youre into that kind of thing. Or if you watch the news, you can bet well remind you. In a matter of a few weeks here, this month, these parties will gather again, and as a matter of law and this is normal you had a magistrate handle this because its the booking the next judge will oversee the entire case from beginning to end. This is an Arena Donald Trump the defendant does not control. Not the timing, not the rules, not the rules of evidence, not the attempts to appeal. Indeed, we discussed on our air today there are very constrained rules against donald trump and his Defense Lawyers who have many rights against playing games to try to slow this down. And one of the other clue we knew since earlier this week is that they are facing a prosecutor who is intent on a speedy trial. How do we know that . Because he said so, jack smith in those brief remarks talked explicitly about a speedy trial. And in court, you cant just talk the talk. You have to walk the walk. We put together a case that is sprawling and complex. Coconspirators remain unindicted, and that is a reason theyre walking the walk in court. And we think that got Donald Trumps lawyers attention if not rattled them. Historic newsworthy day on a newsworthy week. Were going through the other part of the arraignments in a moment. Going to walk you there you the clash of timing and evidence. And were going to bring in assorted experts. We begin now on the big news with former sdny civil prosecutor maya wylie and Andrew Weissman, one of the top people in charge of another special counsel probe that made waves, the mueller probe. Welcome to both of you. Thank you. Andrew, you and i did some of this live. Im going to come to you, but maya, hearing from you for the First Time Since donald trump was put in court and put under the custody of the government he tried to overthrow. This was a big day, even for those who follow closely and feel like it was now expected. What does this day mean . This day means that for the first time, notwithstanding all the indictments we have seen come down on donald trump, it is the first day we have seen the beginning of potential accountability for what he has been charged with, which we have been hearing for two years now, related to his effort to keep himself in office, despite what the voters demanded. Hmm. Andrew, i give you the same question. Im happy to get our Gardening Gloves on and get back in the legal weeds, if you will. I know you love a good gardening allegory. But before we do, im told we just got our first sketch. This is live news. At the top of the hour we didnt have it. Our newsroom just received this. I put this into question as we look at the first sketch out of todays proceeding. What i believe mr. Laura at the lectern. We have Defendant Trump standing. He was standing to give his plea at certain points. And we have the magistrate. And as we look at this first sketch, what today meant. I was thinking about it, jack smiths point of view. Everyone focuses on the fact that he was a State Prosecutor in manhattan, he was a federal prosecutor in the Eastern District of new york. But i think the thing that people need to remember, and i think the way he may be thinking about this given the unique charges, which is a leader of what is supposed to be the free world, being held in a courtroom for the charges of seeking to overthrow the will of the people, is that jack smith, his last job was in the International Criminal court. Mmhmm, the hague. Where he was dealing with this issue around the world. And for him, i think i mean, i just think he is such a unique background and perspective for bringing this case and also bringing what to this country a rule of law that he is and a part of vindicating in many other countries. And so i think for him, he may be thinking, yes, this may be unique for us here, but this is what the rule of law globally requires. And while we might be going through this for the first time, this is holding to account a political leader who tried to engage in a coup. And there are other countries that have dealt with this successfully. There are other countries that have dealt with it not successfully. But i just think he is so much the man for the moment given his background. Yeah, and this is the big one, maya. Some of the conversations were having across different hours of msnbc Coverage Today may be the conversations that people around the country are. I think its fair to say reasonable minds can debate and disagree whether the new york case is really significant and is really timely, which again is not prejudging the outcome. There are cold cases that get brought. Its not special and unique to donald trump. But i think people can debate that. There are aspects of it what we would legally call steal or less than ideal. The classified documents case has a lot of damning evidence against donald trump, but its fundamentally about what we did after he left office, which matters because hes a citizen but its very different than what we lived through over the four years and how it ended. Did this today i try to keep it real with everybody i get people are tired and i get that its august. You might want to move on and focus on something else. This today is the first time hes been arraigned for what he did in office. And either you think that jack smith has overshot it and you dont think the evidence is there and the trial will test that, in all fairness, or you read this indictment and you go, whew, i see why they wanted to delay the trial. I see why they dont want this before the election. I see why trumps Lawyers Soundeder In Rouse to me. Well get to that. I got a whole set up. Lets put the sketch back up. This guys standing up there. He knows what hes accused of, how much evidence they have. He knows this is Defendant Trump in court today. Are they totally free wheeling, out here shooting in the dark . Or do they have a ton of the real goods from his own people on what he did . They got the goods. Mmhmm. And i say that, to your point, knowing what a jurys going to decide is going to be up to a jury. Knowing theres going to be motion practice, discussion about what evidence comes in, what doesnt come in. That doesnt none of that changes, that they have the goods. I had chills when andrew was making the point about the hague. And for anyone whos Done International human rights, part but also for people who havent, people just living in this country, being able to expect that in our democracy there is a peaceful transfer of power and that we are not the countries that we see or dont have the dictators we see being pulled before the hague. What this indictment is telling us about the goods they have is that we had a person in office named donald trump who was willing to stop at next to nothing to make sure he stayed there, even after being told repeatedly and i think this is important, because, you know, this whole point we keep hearing in the press today about do, they have intent . Can they prove what he was thinking . Its like, well, he was told by his Vice President there was no voter fraud. He was told by his own Department Of Justice there was no voter fraud. He was told by his top soldier general milley there was no voter fraud. He was told way every arm and his own staff. To your point, thats one of the three conspiracies smith lays out. Theres another one of the three where he says the conspiracy was to delay the certification. And when you look at that, right, they did it. They delayed the certification. He set out to delay it. They did delay it. And tantalizingly near the end of the indictment, they have a narrative he was continuing on with that after the violence on the evening of the 6th. And all three counts when you read all these three laws together, what youre really hearing is the pattern of, im going the lie about what is happening and whos doing it, right . Because we also have the fact that we had ruby freeman, shea moss, black women receiving racist threats as they were pointing to the who. The who. People showing up to help make an election happen. That is protected by the law. When were talking about that count that says you cant interfere with the vote, the Supreme Court said, thats not just putting the vote in the ballot box. You know, that is the count and that is everything that happens to get to the count. And that goes back to your point about why all of this stuff is so much of the goods, because even donald trump himself in this indictment is saying, im going to pick and choose which way of looking at this vote count. Im going to try to push my Vice President to do from coconspirator two, eastman, im going to pick and choose which one i like best. If youre actually following the laws, you believe what you are being told about what is lawful to do and not do. Youre not picking and choosing just what works best for you, particularly when theres a statement made that says, Vice President pence turned the donald trump and said, your own counsel is telling you i cant do this. He says, thats okay, i picked another one. That is evidence. And youre being too honest. And youre being too honest. Im just saying this because i was astounded by the news day and the power of the arraignment that were hearing people talking saying, we dont know if they have proof of intent. They got proof of intent. Pop quiz, andrew, is mike pence sell merch that says too honest on it . I think he is. Wild. Wild day. So i promised gardening, which is you ready . Yeah, i love to garden. I like gardening, too, but sorry, you think im a nerd . But he really im a blerd, by the way. Love it. Much respect. But hes wheezy. He really is. Were going into the weeds. I promise for the viewers basically we got our guests today. More legal eagles and experts coming. I want to break this out. The the arraignment for really short, we had a plan, wed be moving on, through the other stuff. It was 28 minutes. Way longer than a regular booking. Way longer than a city municipal booking. And thats because of specific things that happened. Ill going to present it to you so you know what happened. Its the battle line emerging, and its emerged earlier than usual. The trial timing and the evidence in this trial are now going to be litigated and fought over more than usual, and im going to explain to you exactly why. We just talked a little bit about why this is a big one. Its different than a new york case. If georgia acts and we dont know what theyll do, its a bigger problem for donald trump than a georgia case. So we are already seeing a line of attack. This is before todays arraignment. Youre going see it come up twice, first out of court and in court. Its an attack we first heard from trumps lawyer, and he previewed this before the arraignment. He has three and a half years. Why dont we make it equal . The bottom line is they have 60 federal agents working on this. 60 federal lawyers. All kinds of government personnel, and we get this indictment and they want to go to trial in 90 days. Does that sound like justice to you in. Does that sound like justice . Thats a trump lawyer attacking the timing because the doj did this is a factual piece of history the doj did take a pretty long time to bring this case. It originated and focused on in january 2021. But think about this if he is complaining that it took so long years why would you want to make it take everyone longer now . Well, thats actually what we learned about today earlier than the arraignment. In the public, hes doing interviews. Late today in the arraignment is a strategy to push for a kind of fight over evidence as a mechanism, call it a tool or ploy, to drag out when this trial begins. Now, that matters. Its also telling. Mr. Lauro hit this point in court today. He referred to jack smith what im about to read you under the formal court term, the government. Smith represents the government. Heres what he said. Quote, for the government to suggest that this case can be tried in the same period of the Speedy Trial Act is somewhat absurd. He goes on to say, what we need from the government is an understanding of the magnitude of discovery of all the evidence they have. And the prosecution goes on to argue, quote, this case thats the prosecutor who works for smith saying, this case will benefit from normal order, including a speedy trial. You see that clash. Lets be very clear, because i dont think everyone sits around reading arraignment transcripts. You dont debate evidence in discovery at an arraignment. You certainly dont get into the Speedy Trial Act. What we were discussing earlier, rachel and i were talking about the fact that yes, they are entitled to look at the evidence and get timed for that. Something else is going on here. Im giving you my preview of what i think that is, a real fear about this case than the other ones and a real effort to see the ground. They want to publicly argue on behalf of trump on tv and in court that somehow this is being rushed, its not fair, they need more time. Heck, they might need until 2025. My experts are here. Were going to bring in david kelly. Welcome back, sir. Nice to be with you. David, i want to go to you. First were going to go yes or no. Do you typically resolve evidence and discovery questions at an arraignment . I thought you were going to give me a pop question on whether or not i think andrew is a nerd. You can weigh in on. That you know andrew. Ive known andrew for decades, and im a big fan of his. But no, thats not typically something that comes up in arraign ms. President. Part of the defense is here is not what you can do in a courtroom because its not done in a courtroom. We go so fast. First, this is not what you do with your arraignment time. Thats on its face abnormal. We can remind viewers, the magistrate didnt say, we can wait a long time. No, what they normally do, which is set the very next date, the first appearance before an actual judge. Specifically the first appearance before the judge to whom the case is assigned. Exactly. Now the longer question for you, given that youve prosecuted terrorists, corrupt defendants, et cetera. What do you actually think is happening here . This was a longer arraignment because of that move. Mr. Lauro is making the case. Jack smith clearly wants a fast trial. Whats going on here, david . Whats going on is theyre planting the seed that their defense is to try this in the public arena because a lot of what they want as a defense is not going to be admissible or not going to work in a courtroom. And so part of that is, again, the whole trump mantra im a victim, i cant possibly take this case to trial in the time that the government wants to. It would be incredibly unfair, and theres too much discovery. Theres too much going on. Cant do it. Its not such a big deal that they raised it at the arraignment. It is unusual because the Magistrate Judge is there to read him his rights, the charges, assure he has counsel and say, heres the date you see the judge. As a prosecutor, given your extent of experience, how would you expect jack smiths team to counter this if this maintains its spot as the first big clash . I think if i was jack smith i wouldnt get distracted by what hes trying to do outside the courtroom. He should focus on what he can and will do in the courtroom. I think thats probably going to be jack smiths approach to this. I think its the right approach, because you can say all this stuff that you want right now, but when he gets in front of a jury, and i think one from the d. C. Jury pool, this stuff aint going to fly. Basically you sound really confident. You know what theyre doing. You dont think its that debatable. Theyre going to say a version of what we just heard in fairness to the judge and say, hey, doj had all this time, spent all this time. Its two and a half years later, they come around, tell us they have no time, and we need till after the election. Then what happens . So, look, they can make that argument. I think it doesnt really hold a lot of water. What does hold more water and the one thing ill agree with lauro, although he brought it up at a time that was inappropriate, and discovery and how much theyre going to have to go through. I think the other bigger challenge is not just discovery, but this particular defendants own court schedule. Hes not lots of commitments. You put that very david, you put that very diplomatically. So, look, hes got all these cases hes got to be tried for. Look, in response to what lauro said, the government can investigate something for 10, 20 years, but the Speedy Trial Act says you have 70 days. Obviously theres a lot of exclusions there. I think you make a good point. Why would they want it to drag on even more . I think also two and a half years since the incident, and just getting to indictment now . I dont think thats such a big deal. What is important and what the judge has to focus on, how much discovery is there to go through . Number one. Number two, defense, tell me what litigation youre going to engage in before we go forward. What pretrial motions are you anticipating . The judge can say, thats a nobrainer. Five minutes to decide this one. This one may take more time, maybe an oral briefing, oral argument. It will help the judge fashion a smart schedule that is unassailable that he can not legitimately claim from a Legal Standard is one thats inappropriate. Maya . Yeah, so, look, one thing is i think we know why we saw this tactic play out in the maralago case in florida. They were very explicit about wanting to delay the trial till after the election cycle, and there are a lot of reasons for that that empower donald trump if hes to be victor, so i dont think theres any question that delays benefit them and theyre going to use every tool in the toolbox to put as much pressure, including external pressure, to mr. Kellys point, from outside the courtroom to bring that pressure to bear inside to the extent it might work. But that said, everyone every defendant deserves the right to be able to go through that discovery. Nobodys going to debate that. There are not any facts at issue here that donald trump and his team do not have access to. Right, especially ginn their role. David, before i lose you on this newsworthy night, now that weve seen this shake out a little bit, would you expect jack smiths team to bring to bear all the star witnesses weve heard about . Pence figures into the indictment, meadows figures in, and those Unindicted Coconspirators. Do you expect that to be all The Star Witnesses At Trial . Or too early to tell . For the coconspirators that arent named, i think theres less to develop in the days ahead, months ahead. Will they be charged . Have they become witnesses . I think from some measure, the way the indictment agrees, a lot of them you dont even need as witnesses because you use their coconspirator statements. The question is, were there witnesses around them who heard these statements that dont have the same baggage who can convey what they say . Its a statement in furtherance of the conspiracy. So it would be interesting to see exactly whats in store. I think its anybodys guess. I had expected that folks like that would have been charged together with a former president. I think the move to not to do was a smart one, and we talked about this the other night. In order to have a better argument, a strong argument to proceed faster, more expeditiously. Its hard to say whats exactly in the cards for those folks. For someone like mike pence, hell probably be called to testify. Should be called the testify. Important information he has, clearly shared with the government. Im thinking one of the statements he made was that it was reckless of the president. I think thats not going to come out at trial because its irrelevant what he thinks in terms of a legal matter. Whats important is what we saw and what the president said to him. So i think thats really compelling evidence. As you say, you put him in the box. Youre not looking for another pencian essay on why he can see both sides of everything. Youre going to ask him, so you got an unlawful order . How many times did he issue the order . We got a note you met for 45 minutes. You get into that, its not his opinions. David, we have been relying on you on this big newsworthy week, as well as maya wylie. Appreciate it. First break of the hour. We have a january 6th investigator here on how today might have only come because of that committee. We have a former watergate prosecutor. And by the end of the hour, the head doj federal criminal division. Shortest break. See you on the other side. See you on the other side. Kidney disease. There are places youd like to be. Like here. And here. Not so much here. If you have chronic kidney disease, farxiga can help you keep living life. Farxiga and farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure, which can lead to dialysis. Farxiga can cause serious side effects including dehydration, Urinary Tract or genital Yeast Infections in women and men, and low blood sugar. Ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may lead to death. A rare lifethreatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. Stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this bacterial infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. Farxiga can help you keep living life. Ask your doctor for farxiga for chronic kidney disease. If you cant afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. Farxiga Special Coverage of the arraignment of donald trump continues now, as mentioned did defendant is in his third arraignment. The second federal arraignment in a courtroom, caused by special counsel jack smith. And today, the judge issued a warning that jack smith and other prosecutors would recognize anything you say to a Law Enforcement officer can be used against you in this proceedinger a future proceeding. The judge asked the defendant, do you understand that, sir . And trump replied today, yes. Joining me now, mark harris, Senior Investigative counsel on the january 6th committee. Andrew weissman still with us. Welcome, mark. Good to be here. Is this a day that would have come out with january 6th committees probe . Well, im not sure i can answer that, but i can say that the indictment tracks closely with what the committee did. Do you think that at the time of the committees work when jack smith had not yet been named in the early days that the doj was on that path . Theres been some reporting about what was happening in doj and the fbi in those many months while we were working before jack smith was appointed, and it seemed as if based on that reporting that there wasnt a lot of progress being made. You pair that with the fact that this indictment tracked very closely not just the work that we did in terms of developing evidence and witnesses, but just the themes and the approach. And so i think its fair to say that the work of the committee had a Strong Influence on where we are today. Strong influence. Fair. I appreciate your precision there. Hard job to ask to questions. Sounds like whether we call it a lot, strong, or very likely, that thats significant. So youre very much a newsworthy speaker today. I wanted to ask you specifically given what the committee developed about trump being arraigned today on these charges, and theres three conspiracies that smith focuses on in the indictment, the hearings you held, and many people remember them, could go broader than that. The conspiracies, im just reading from page two, is defraud the u. S. , obstruct and impede the january 6th certification. Etch everyone knows that occurred. It was delayed till the 7th. Third, the obstruction of the broader right to vote. Of those three, what do you think of the evidence . And do those, in your view, track with what you guys did find . It certainly tracks. I think if you go through the indictment the first 25 pages or so you had congresswoman lofgren on. The hearing she held was those issues. Trump knew he lost. He was told by advisers he lost the election and he persisted in telling the same lie or story about the election that he had just been told in days by those advisers were false. So that tracks always way. Then youve got the doj aspect of the conspiracy with coconspirator, i believe its four, Jeffrey Clark. And that tracks a lot of the work that was done by another set forth in other hearings by the select committee. So really all the way through it tracked, not just in terms of themes and theories but in terms of evidence cited. There are a handful of nuggets that i found very interesting that we didnt get or couldnt get based on the limits of our ability to pierce Attorney Client privilege. What did they get that you didnt have . Vice president pence, for example. We didnt get to talk to pence. The Merry Christmas call. What else . Interesting and important tidbit. Theres a conversation between i believe its jeffly clark, Coconspirator Four and Deputy White House counsel, patrick philbin, really interesting conversation in the oval office where Jeffrey Clark talks about, thats why we have the insurrection act. Abusing Military Power of the National Guard to put down any unrest if donald trump stole the race and actually physically stopped President Elect biden from taking office. Yes, an extraordinary and just really reckless and frightening comment. I got to tell you this, because i got so much going on. The next question i have for you sometimes i think of my next question in advance. Andrew does that, too. Why did jack smith put that in the indictment . Were going to get more in that, and if youll come back next time i have you. I hope youll come back. Sure. Love to. Want me to hold my answer on that one . Yes, because its that kind of Breaking News today. Our thanks to you. Have to fit in a break. When we come back, the former ahead of the Criminal Doj Division is standing by forw their response on this. Thats next. Thats next. Is strong enamel nothing beats it. New pronamel active shield actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. 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I had had conversations with my physician indicating that that was probably an issue that i was facing and making it more difficult for me to sustain weight loss. Golo has been more sustainable. I can fit it into family life, i can make meals that the whole family will enjoy. It just works in everyday life as a mom. Our Special Coverage of Donald Trumps arraignment, his third of the year, continues now. We are looking at new sketches that came in. If you were watching at the top of the hour, we didnt have any yet. These are new in the theres few moments. Donald trump at center, counsel standing. An individual at the far left. Our artist has taken care to give extra detail to. Im joined now by leslie caldwell, the former head of the doj division, supported jack smith in the special counsel. Have spoken about her knowledge of his work in the past. Leslie, i want to get into everything that happened today with you. Since i just showed the sketches and andrew and i are sitting here, i wanted to ask you, andrew, since you both know jack, you put it back up, thats the whole courtroom, and on the far left, what do you see there . That definitely looks like jack, but courtroom sketches are not the best. But you see that as we were told from our notes determine we have one reporter in the room this is one of the most sought after seats in america you could get today did say he was about ten feet away from the defendant. Yeah, thats to me, it looks obviously you know who donald trump is. Looks like jack smith on the left. Thats my read of a poor drawing. Wow. Shots fired at the cartoonist. Exactly. Leslie, you dont have to do any art criticism, although its a Free Speech Zone if you want to. I want to get your response as you join our coverage for the first time tonight, and people who watch the beat know weve called on you in the past because you did have such a large portfolio overseeing so many criminal trials. What did you think of todays arraignment . What did you think of the parts that take longer . Just curious your take . So i think it was a pretty typical arraignment. There obviously was a little more detail, and i think the defense, as some of your previous guests said, are laying to ground work to delay the case as long as possible and started planting the seeds for that today. Other than that and other than the very spectacle of having a former president appear in a Federal Court and be arraigned on criminal charges which itself is extraordinary, it was itself a routine proceeding. Copy. Turning to the Unindicted Coconspirators that are named by the Justice Department, you certainly have dealt with cases that are about one defendant or violent or physical crimes, you say, this is the interaction. Case proceeds there. Where they there . You have finger prints, a weapon. Thats the usual course. People know that from law order. Here, five of the six unidentified Unindicted Coconspirators were lawyers. One serving in the Justice Department at the time. That is a significant thing when you look at the fact that one of the early defenses offer by Donald Trumps lawyers was that he was taking the advising and advice he got from counsel, and thats why he did everything he did. For your reaction i want to play something pretty recent from trumps lawyer. Take a look. Everything that mr. Trump requested to be done was done with the advice of counsel, was done with lawyers giving him advice. You also had many, many opinions of his own white House Counsel that that was not legal. Youre entitled to believe and trust advice of counsel. This is an attack on free speech and political advocacy. Given your experience we dont know everything about this case yet. We have the indictment. But in your experience have you seen that defense work for defending out of the doj . Does it weak than defense if several of your alleged coconspirators are lawyers . Ive seen it raised many, many times and it can be effective. You have to be relying in good faith on the advice of counsel. If youre shopping for lawyers that will tell you what you want to hear, thats not the same as relaying on honest advice of a lawyer whos giving you real legal advice. So i think it will be challenging for mr. Trump to say he was relying on certain lawyers when many, many other lawyers as alleged in the indictment, were telling him those people were wrong and that the claims of Election Fraud are false. Understood. When we think about the strategy here legally of the doj and jack smith and were showing the cartoon earlier, which was not up to the standards of Andrew Weissman. Clearly spent time in soho, clearly knows his ways around the galleries. Chelsea. Chelsea. Even know the neighborhood better than me, which proves it. Well put this back up. Were told nbc news this is Breaking News today. Weve got the sketch. Were told that is jack smith. Our reporters watched to see if the two men looked at each other. We didnt catch that. When you look at his strategy here, leslie, what do you make of the speed what he said earlier this week, he wants a speedy trial and the clash over that . So i think that it makes sense that jack smith and his team would want a speedy trial, and knowing jack from working with him over the years, thats kind of his m. O. He goes into a case to an indictment of a case ready to go to trial, which is not always the case with prosecutors. And im sure hes very carefully thought through the strategy of the trial and the presentation of the trial and is probably forced to go the trial next week, could probably do it. Not that thats going to happen, but i think thats his approach generally is to be ready and to come to play and come with your game face on and be ready to go. Hmm. Before i lose you, leslie, youre such a pro here. Anything weve missed or not hit today that stuck out to you . No, i think based on watching your piece, i think you pretty much covered it. I think its a fascinating time. Its obviously unprecedented and hopefully will never be repeated in our country, but i think youve done a great job covering it. Thank you for that. We love going to the source and learning from people. You have been a key part of our Coverage Today and throughout the process. My thanks to leslie caldwell, and having been able to tear him away from the chelsea gallery walks, our thanks to Andrew Weissman as well. More than one expertise there. Thank you. Anything you want to add . Thank you, leslie. Just giving andrew a hard time because i know him so well. Anything you want to add . To leslies point, i thought the fact that the judge schedule for a briefing and that she is going to decide the trial date on the 28th, that struck me as unusual to have that, and the judge clearly like the government, focused on the clock. Interesting. So youre saying unusually fast, which is bad news if the defendants strategy is to buy time. Yes, and its a very doesnt mean the judge decided what to do, but the fact that she is putting this on a clock now, saying i want to hear from you, government, on x date, defense on y date, and 28th, the first date youre in front of me, im picking a trial date. Thats unusual to have that no nonsense. Doesnt mean shes going to rule for the government, but that means its clearly front and center. Such an important point. True, true. We appreciate andrew so much. 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And we saw a little bit of a scuffle over the coming battle over evidence and timing. Your thoughts . I think that this case is going to go ahead pretty quickly. I think jack smith set it up with only trump as the defendant. For the very purpose of making sure that this case gets to trial almost immediately. In the next couple weeks, what jack smith is going to do is provide all of the discovery, everything is going to be just hand it over, yeah. Just hand it over, witness statements, everything is going to be handed over. And when he shows up on the 28th, hes going to tell the judge, were ready to go. And set schedule for motions and set the trial down for january or february. And the Defendant Trump is entitled to of course all material that might help him. They have various terms for that in court, but basically, oh, in the grand jury, somebody said something about maybe he didnt know or it was good faith to use a term shared earlier. Do you think theres much of that in there for him . No, but i think hes going to get everything. Whatever there is, hes going to get it and get it well in advance before he would be entitled to, for example, witness statements were given already. Theyre not entitled to that information by law until after the witness testifies. Normally, they get it before the witness testifies like the night before. I never gave it much more than the night before when i was a prosecutor. So hes going to have all of that information. And on top of it all, trump has known about this for the last couple years. The only reason his lawyers havent been able to prepare is because he hasnt told them the truth about what hes done. So the idea that its going to take them a lot of time to prepare, if its anybodys fault, its Donald Trumps fault. Yeah, and finally, i have 15 seconds. Which is the most important case of the three thus far . I think this case because we started the lose mr. Ackermans connection, so well hear from him again and i promise that is not some sort of way that we get rid of guests at the end of the hour, even though were excited to welcome joy on. That was just a little technical difficulties. We have a Programming Note as we sign off the beat. Tomorrow, we have a special on the trump indictments. You have heard this term, trump indictment, sometimes the Special Coverage, well tomorrow on the beat, our breakdown of the trump indictments, plural, as we draw on everything we learned today at the arraignment and the indictment. We got this week, and the other two that are circulating. My special, i urge you to tune in if you want to join me tomorrow, 6 00 p. M. Eastern, or dvr if thats your thing. That does it for us. I have very good news. Our Special Coverage continues, the reidout with joy reid is up next. He 13th. Now is the time to partner with our experts. Get started today with verizon business. Its your business. 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Its your business. Its your verizon. Good evening, everyone. Were following todays Breaking News out of washington. Donald trump for the third time this year entered a courthouse, stood before a judge, and pleaded not guilty to his alleged crimes. Unlike the previous two instances, the location of todays arraignment tells its own story because the former president essentially returned to the scene of the alleged crime. The d. C. Federal courthouse stands in the shadow of the u. S. Capitol, where trumps efforts to subvert our democracy following his failed 2020 president ial bid culminated in the insurrection at that very