Against donald trump stands tonight we are going to get to the United Nations which we dont do often enough here. Were gonna speak with our u. S. Ambassador because the United States becomes the head of the Security Council tomorrow. It is our turn or the investors turn we should say. You had ambassadors fantastic i was just talking about the u. S. Having this confounding dilemma or decision to make deciding whether its gonna keep its word on being really mad at ugandas tell the case law while simultaneously planning to go ahead with this hundreds of millions of dollars of findings that we give them for anti aids this year and thats it youre gonna talk to her about that tonight of course the u. S. Has it even bigger level of influence and we usually what. Thats fascinating. I will ask for your question when she gets here. God bless, you thank you so much. Thank you rachel. Well the pressure is working the pressure from Special Prosecutor of Donald Trumps associates and codefendants impossible coconspirators is working exactly as intended. Its very bad news for donald trump tonight the star witness against donald trump who identified on this program as Trump Employee for. Apparently flipped him decided to testify against donald trump after receiving a Target Letter from the special part prosecutor. Donald trump has to be worried more than ever tonight that his associates will flip and start cooperating with jack smith as soon as they receive Target Letters from jack smith. Trump employee for could start a stampede of trump witnesses against donald trump in all of the criminal cases that donald trump will be facing. Trump employee for use all to various received a Target Letter from special Prosecutor Jack Smith after donald trump was indicted by jack smith in espionage in Obstruction Of Justice indictment. Imagine working at maralago and having a Target Letter from jack smith after you have watched your coworker march into a Federal Courthouse in miami as a criminal defendant with donald trump. As a Trump Employee working at maralago in a matter how much you worship to fear donald trump. When you watched him get arrested that day, by jack smith something should have happened to your confidence in Donald Trumps ability to protect you the superseding indictment that jack smith filed on thursday added more criminal charges against donald trump for his attempts to destroy evidence in the case. Tell us the story of two Trump Employees that made two very different decisions. And dealing with jack smith ucl tavares who was identified in that superseding indictment only as trump can play for clearly made the decision to cooperate with jack smith after watching his coworker become a codefendant with donald trump and Carlos De Oliveira apparently decided not to cooperate with jack smith and ended up being added to the indictment as a co defendant on thursday. Carlos has life changed for the worst a year and a half ago when he was promoted from valet to the head of maintenance that Donald Trumps florida residence. It was thanks to that promotion of donald trump six months later asked carlos liver to commit a crime for him according to the superseding indictment. After the Security Surveillance video at maralago was subpoenaed by federal prosecutors donald trump told him to delete the video, destroying evidence that federal prosecutors have already subpoenaed is already a crime of justice. They say he told Trump Employee for that the boss wanted the server deleted and he responded that he did not know how to do that he did not believe that he would have the rights to do that. He then insist to trump in play for that the boss wanted the server deleted and asked. It is very clear in that indictment that trump in play for is the prosecutors source for that conversation Trump Employee for literally talked his way out of an indictment after receiving a Target Letter by explaining to jack smith exactly what was said to him and exactly what he said and after Trump Employee for told that Story Carlos Got indicted there is a way out of that indictment for carlos only carlos can tell prosecutors about the single most important conversation mentioned in the superseding indictment the day after donald trump found out that they were getting a subpoena for the Security Camera footage the indictment says on June 23rd 2022 At 8 46 Pm trump called de oliveira and they spoke for approximately 24 minutes codefendant can walk out of this case tonight if he tells jack smith every word that he remembers from those 24 minutes he made his first trip to Federal Court today before a Magistrate Judge that released him on 100,000 dollar bond that did not actually require him to put up any money for that release. The judge gave him the standard restrictions for defendants in the Southern District of florida to not speak to any witnesses in the case and not leave the Southern District of florida conditions that do not apply to what donald trump is getting. Have been trying for walk to Television Coverage of his coworker getting arrested today from the comfort of his home presumably knowing that he will be the star witness against carlos. And donald trump the only possible witness in the case based on the evidence that we now know who could give even more devastating testimony than trump and play for its Carlos De Oliveira if he chooses to tell the truth about those 24 minutes on the phone with donald trump a phone call which they believe carlos chose to join a criminal conspiracy with donald trump carlos showed up in court today with a lawyer paid for by donald trump the first possible external sign that carlos changes his mind about which side he is on wouldbe by changing lawyers. That is what trump imply for dead before he decided to speak with jack smiths investigators. He got a Target Letter after watching donald trump marching to court to get arrested, and the very first thing he did was change lawyers useful tavares dumped the lawyer don trump was paying for got another lawyer and then apparently cooperated with jack smith and when the next indictment came out useful to various was not a codefendant but his story was told and full in the new indictment a story that prosecutors could only get from him, the current star witness Trump Employee for. Carlos is 56 years old and with good health east has at least 30 years of an active life ahead of him. He has to ask him self tonight how many of those years as he prepared to spend in federal prison for donald trump he has to ask himself will 77 year old donald trump take care of him financially for the next 30 years will Donald Trumps children continue to financially support him after donald trump is gone and donald trump asked ask him self how long can he count on carlos when employee for has already shown carlos and all other Trump Employees the to react to a Target Letter from jack smith carlos came to this country from portugal he has worked at maralago for approximately 20 years and cnn is reporting the member of his families couldnt even sleep last night with all thats going. On his family was pretty certain that he did not realize the consequences of what trump was telling him to do when he asked him to delete the security footage. And that he was probably just doing anything that trump told him to do he isnt familiar with how the government here works and he was probably just being loyal to his boss was paying his bill, person told cnn. The family feels like he got trapped Trump Employee for has shown carlos the way out of that trap, get rid of the trump lawyer and tell jack smith all about it and that 24 minute phone call with criminal defendant donald trump leading off our discussion tonight is from the host of the podcast courtside, also Andrew Weissmann joined for the former chief, the Eastern District of new york. Nyu law school in an and assembly c legal analyst. Andrew i want to get to your view of where and what we saw here its a way the Trump Employee for we, were referring to came around on this case. It gets a Target Letter it gets rid of the trump lawyer and it tells the story to jack smith. I think one of the things that the public is learning through this case is what happened in criminal cases involving groups of people whether big corporations or political case with people involved whether there is a hierarchy there is a real problem that youve got whether its a mob boss that has House Counsel whether it is a corporation that is council for individuals or former president that uses a pack to pay for council all of that is legal to have a Third Party Pay for a lawyer but the reason its legalize because everyone is banking on no pun intended that the lawyer is going to do their job his or her job which is be loyal to their actual client regardless whos paying for them. Very often the way that you control a witness is that Third Party Payer de facto has control because that persons pain and they have power and its a real problem in the legal system i saw when i was doing Organized Crime cases i saw when i was doing enron and everyone is seeing now to be clear though there are ethical lawyers who can do this but there also are examples and i have seen it firsthand where lawyers do not make that distinction and i think that the person who is paying has a real client interest and that is the problem that we are seeing and that is the reason its so important that someone has independent counsel giving them advice it is in their interest and not in the interest of Anyone Else Meal it seems inconceivable given our current state of Public Knowledge about donald trump and his lifetime practices it seems inconceivable that donald trump would pay an attorney for anyone. So anything other than serve Donald Trumps interest. Thats exactly right lawrence and i think to just zoom out for a moment. Donald trump tonight is facing the Triple Threat to the superseding indictment by jack smith a couple of days ago. Thats just in maralago were not talking about january 6th. But that Triple Threat here from maralago as a brandnew defendant new criminal charges against donald trump and most of all what you saw was very who is not charged and before we had an indictment with two people jack smith had it last week and then there is other witness and one of the things andrews talking about here is doctrine with crimes like this which is used primarily because one of the key reasons for it is to basically say look if you dont cooperate and tell us the truth we are going to throw the book at you. So its incentive for people to come forward particularly if they have lawyers that havent told them all the rest thats what it looks like what happened here. We dont know if hes formally cooperating with jack smith but boy hes not indicted in the other folks are indicted if you are one of these people or any other employee at maralago half of which seem to be on the witness list from the stolen documents trial you are looking at that and you are thinking i need to cooperate or otherwise im facing, really really serious sanctions for the next picking up on when they will be, saying if you are a Trump Employee and the fbi is talking to you, about conversations we have there is very strong reason that the other conversation they, have told him the truth. That is the dynamic that we have here. You have the january Six Committee at least one person has at least not flipped and has not provided enough damaging and we know that the boss is powerful, he has all the money and lawyers to pay for. He chinchillas vetted of this. You know that hes going to go down at the ship if he has to. Youre just imploring at maralago. Heres what i, know he was a truthful information that i can provide. I just dont want to go to prison. This is how it works. Its so many times through people that are far less physical in the world. Rjs are filled with people who got it down. Andrew weizmann as you look at the prosecution of this espionage an Obstruction Of Justice case, how much is that 24 minute phone call worse to jack smith to the prosecution of this case if he couldve came to tape of that phone call or if he could obtained it from his version of the contents of that phone call. How much is that worth to the prosecutors in that case. So one of the things that is largely messy. Not entirely but largely from the second obstruction part of the case because remember there is a first part of the obstruction that we are talking about the former president of the United States. Theyre two separate types of obstruction. I do think that the reason that they were looking to have the flip is because there is nothing like having a direct evidence from somebody that had the conversation with the defendant as opposed to hearing it secondhand so for instance you do have talavera saying that this is what the boss wants but you dont have himself on the stand saying that. You dont need to the evidence will still come in but if you had a Tape Recording or the direct evidence it would be very useful or working compared to what we expect we have is that mr. Corcoran is going to be heard talking about direct conversations and direct conversations, and employees talking about direct conversations in the former president. Its also not necessary to focus on the specific piece of evidence. Juries are going to be instructed and the governments want to talk about all of the evidence in the case as a totality rather than each little piece so i think the government is still in very good shape. Neil youre gonna have at least one witness testify here quoted delaware saying that the boss wants the video to lead it in a defense where you could put defendants in the trial and on the stand. Donald trump would of course take the Witness Stand and testify of course i never said that which would be helpful to the defense if he could possibly take the Witness Stand and say that he never said that. But like an all Trump Prosecutions it does seem impossible for donald trump to take the Witness Stand in this case. I think thats exactly right because that quote that youre reading comes from the superseding the indictment last week and superseding indictments are very common prosecutors use them all the time it just means investigators have found additional evidence like this quote probably coming from a new witness and alike. You are right to say that normally a criminal defendant can come in and say i didnt say that and take the stand in the like but if donald trump manages to have a lawyer with any competence. Thats an open question given the way that donald trump treats his lawyers but if he does that lawyers not gonna let donald trump take the stand because you have to worry that hes going to perdram self in the like so i suspect that wont happen but what will happen eloi as well as particular witness that gave that quote take the stand and weve been talking thus far as legal analysts saying likely to cooperate theyll see jail time and you know start cooperating but dont underestimate the Human Element here thats on both sides on the one side if you worked for donald trump, you probably dont like him thats the way his own cabinet talks about him and i expect that underlings that dont have sadness accra terese i expect to have a lot of animosity towards donald trump on the other hand though you have a guy that routinely threatens violence and his supporters threatened violence and andrew knows better than anyone hes not the president now but ive no doubt that someone is whispering to every one of these people at maralago hey just hold a line through next November Louviers if trump wins or another republican wins you will get pardoned dont worry about it this Cooperation Calculation i think is a very intricate and difficult one. Bradley as we go forward it seems what were seeing in the superseding indictment it is evidence that probably in all of jack smiths investigations once he has brought the initial indictment presumably against donald trump it doesnt mean that there isnt an ongoing pressure for Trump Associates to cooperate and flipping help jack smith. Yeah, absolutely. Who will be the next Trump Employee for the next person to come forward . If there is additional information, heres what was said to me for efforts to destroy and remove boxes. Maybe efforts to destroy and remove with who came in at what time. Any number of things like that it doesnt mean there is some and if there are some people with that kind of explanation you have got to be sure that those people are thinking too i really need this lawyer paid for by the boss. And do i need someone whos really gonna protect my interest to make sure i say to jail and i properly coordinate with the government to give the truth information that i have, if its in any way relevant and as we go forward with this especially with this indictment think of how lesson less important the classified portion of this case is coming. The Espionage Act charges may be the underlying foundation but its the obstruction thats going to bring down donald trump if this case goes to trial. Trying to delete the tapes is a very clear set of evidence and testimony for a jury to comprehend thank you very much for starting off our discussions tonight and coming up for any willis that she has not coordinated a special Prosecutor Jack Smith and wouldnt know she saw on. More on that next week when hes fleming and Andrew Weissmann or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. 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My guess is he probably cant pronounce my name correctly. All disclosure and mispronounced her name the first time i said it before. And then that she pronounces her name fani. Glenn case fleming in county georgia, Andrew Weizmann. With your experience as a District Attorney in georgia, what do you make of where Fani Williams is tonight. She also said over the, weekend we are ready to go on this case. So first, of all i dont think its unusual that she hasnt coordinated with jack smith. Again thats not somebody whos in georgia. Were not very talking about the u. S. Attorney or the Southern District of the state where she might run into them. Shes getting her team ready and let people should really remember as well were focused at the facts and laws and obviously that has been the focus of the last two years. Shes a lead of the largest Prosecutors Office in the state. The judges are making sure their teams are safe. Ive heard some of the threats, some of the other threats, she is managing not just the investigation, but also being a good leader for her team i think this gets lost as we focus on waiting to see what the indictments look like. What do you make of the no coordination, no cooperation between jack smith and fani willis . I really think that cohens points are totally fair and right. It really is an enormous some pressure on her and teams. I dont just mean the pressure to do their jobs well and to do them quickly not make errors, but they have to deal with things that they shouldnt have to deal with with threats of violence. With respect to the courthouse, themselves and witnesses. With respect to coordination i do think that they are going to have to be at some point, if there hasnt already at least some coordination. The reason i say that, its interesting and glenns Point Of View here. Lets just take two examples. If you are interviewing a, victim to together so theyre not interviewed multiple times and revictimized. Making it as benign experience as possible. Every time you witness a trial, these overlapping facts you want to make sure that you know what the witnesses said. So, the federal government will have made notes of what the State Government said. You are gonna want to know what the other person said to the states and vice versa, you dont want to just turn that over to donald trump. The only person who has the full set of information is donald trump. So i do think at some point there has to be some coordination. Your reaction to that . I think that is possible, the milestones that we are all waiting for is if there are indictments, particularly of the former president will there be motions to remove the case to Federal Court. Certainly if we have coordination with the u. S. Attorneys office, and with georgia that is where you are possibly going to see a larger collaboration with jack smith and his team. Much for the same reasons that andy just described. But again, that would be a next step. Ultimately, as a State Prosecutor i would hope and the Removal Attempts would be denied, so this case can be tried in the court where i personally think the dea thinks it belongs. This gets more interesting, squeeze into the dumbest commercial break here so we can talk about it for a few. Minutes, glenn kyi Slamming Reisman we will be right back. Ill be r remember the things you loved. Before asthma got in the way . Fasenra is an addon treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. Its designed to target and remove them and helps prevent asthma attacks. Fasenra is not for sudden Breathing Problems or other eosinophilic conditions. Allergic reactions may occur. Dont stop your Asthma Treatments without talking with your doctor. Tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. 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Unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. To help keep me sharp. Neuriva think bigger. Glenn case fleming and Andrew Weizmann are back with us. I just want to make the point that there is a non legal point about the coordination. It may very well be politically important. If when close lemming and jack smith were coordinating reindictment, donald trump would just have a field day about that. Calling it some kind of conspiracy. So it seems to me the possibility of them coordinating after indictment would make a lot more sense, just in dealing with that particular trump phenomenon. But Andrew Weissmann, it just got that much more interesting, when they mention the possibility of donald trump trying to remove the Federal Court, if he did that wouldnt remove it into jack smiths jurisdiction . Just to be clear she stays with the case. Youre not buying yourself a Different Group of people. Its not gonna be jacksons case. Remember he tried this with the alvin raab case, that was rejected. It was resoundingly done by the federal judge and sent back to state court. And under the rule, it didnt even delay in any way that state case. It was honestly one of the things that donald trump is gonna be trying to do. He may have different arguments with respect to the georgia case. He is certainly going to try that and theres no question theyre gonna be completely ready with making ending all arguments with that. That is something that is very much what you would anticipate that should be made. Im sure she has that written and ready to respond. And glenn, another big win today in court in georgia the judge throwing out Donald Trumps attempt. Its any of the work that the special grand jury. She certainly did and as i read through the order, i couldnt help but appreciate the town. I think we have now heard from the Georgia Supreme Court on many of these issues. Requesting that the dea and her team be disqualified. Requesting at this grand jury backwash. Again, judge mcburneys order today was just reiterating the lack of argument for those in the former president s position. Andrew, weisman thank you both very much for joining our discussions tonight. The person of our next guest will take over the presidency of the United NationsSecurity Council. Rachel maddow has a question about that for our next guest. Linda thomas joins us next. Xt let Innovation Refunds help with your erc tax refund so you can improve your business however you see fit. Rosie used part of her refund to build an outdoor patio. Clink dr. Marshall used part of his refund to give his practice a facelift. Emily used part of her refund to buy. I run a wax museum. Let Innovation Refunds help you get started on your erc tax refund. Stop waiting. Go to innovationrefunds. Com you really got the brows. My most important kitchen tool . My brain. So i choose neuriva plus. 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Tomorrow the United States of america and Linda Thomasgreenfield will become president of the United NationsSecurity Council. Joining us now is the United States ambassador. Thank you so much for joining us. As you take over the residency of Security Council, i assume the number one issue before you is still the russian attack and war on ukraine. It is one of the number one issues before us but during our presidency we get to set the agenda and what we will be focusing on is Food Insecurity and Food Insecurity that has been exacerbated by russias war in ukraine. Food insecurity that is impacting around the world and i will be addressing that issue with Secretary Blinken and residing in the seat on thursday to call out russia but also to raise the concerns about famine and how we can bring an end to famine. Well also be focusing attention on human rights President Biden said on day one that our Foreign Policy will be defined by human rights so with the 75th Anniversary of the u. N. Declaration of human rights we will look for opportunities to engage in human rights issues throughout the month. I want to go to one of those opportunities that Rachel Maddow race in the last hour just a moment. But on Food Security ukraine is a major export of grain especially to africa and this war that russia has started interrupted significant amounts of that flow what can be done about that . We had an opportunity to address this issue for the backseat grain issue. The Secretary General was able to formulate with the government of ukraine and the government of russia. Russia pulled out of that deal last week. They pulled out of a deal that provided the necessary food to feed hundreds of thousands of people and we are hopeful that the Secretary General will be able to encourage russia to rejoin the deal but in the meantime we are working with the government of ukraine to find other ways of getting their grain to people in need. I want to go to that other top point in your agenda human rights who tell me that you heard rachael talking about this in our previous hour which is good i just wanna remind the audience of it. Rachel said in may in light of ugandas new law but the Death Penalty for being gay, the Biden Administration said it would reassess funding but that hasnt played out that way so far the white house has made no changes. We cannot punish the people who depend on our support and while we find what was done in uganda horrific it is unacceptable you cannot criminalize homosexuality and use the Death Penalty to punish people for who they are but we cannot punish people who depend on our aid and the programs that provide assistance for them to address aids in uganda so yes we are still reassessing how we will respond to the ugandan government, but were not gonna hold the ugandan people victims and make them victims of this horrific decision. Making them victims means withdrawing the funding and the support that we provide for people to deal with a number of Health Issues that include hiv aids. I dont think weve had a United Nations investor with that much experience. What is your hope for somehow moving youve gone to in the right direction. You know we have worked on this for a number of years and we were previously able to encourage the president not to sign the bill that was put in front of him. He has signed this bill regrettably. The president of uganda sorry but he has not implemented the bill thus far and we are hoping that he does not implement this bill and we will keep trying to find a way forward that allows him to get uganda out of this situation. Donald trump said today or recently that u. S. Congress should refused to authorize a single additional shipment of our Weapon Stockpiles to ukraine into the fbi and the Department Of Justice and the irs and over every scrap of evidence that they have on the biden family. What is your reaction to that my reaction is that there is bipartisan report for providing assistance to ukraine to defend itself against an unprovoked war that russia has brought on ukraine. Ukraine is at the forefront of fighting for democracy and fighting for the u. N. Charter and the values that we all believe in and both republicans and democrats on either side have expressed their support for that as you go forward declined the knighted states position on issues like this to you expect the president ial campaign to create a certain turbulence around these issues at the United Nations. You know, i dont. I dont expect that there are concerns that have been raised about the United Nations. Its not a Perfect Institution but as former Secretary Of State said if we didnt have the u. N. We would create it c only Worldwide Global institution that deals with global issues of peace and security and so i dont think it will be impacted by the election and we will continue to find ways of trying to reform the u. N. And make it work in a more efficient way and can you continue to find Peace Security around the world. Its always an honor to have you join us thank you so much for joining us, its great to be here with you. Thank. You will be right back. K. Time stops. music plays your heart races. Your eyes close. And you realize youre in love. Steve . With a laundry detergent. New gain flings. Seriously good scent. And now, 50 more fresh. Thats love at first sniff. Type 2 diabetes . Discover the ozempic® trizone. And now, 50 more fresh. In my ozempic® trizone, i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. 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