All in starts right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. It was a big day for the future of american democracy. We will get to that significant action in a moment, but before we do, just give me a second to go back to the context of what happened in the last election. I think it has been obscured by the sabotage and disinformation and violent insurrection unlike anything weve seen in the history of the country stoked by the former president. Remember this, last november, right, once in a cent ray pandemic, we got a glimpse of what a full or fuller participation version of our democracy would look like because due to the pandemic, state after state, jurisdiction after jurisdiction, and i should note this is both democratic and republican there were fights over this. But across the board, more or less on the whole in the aggregate, all these places did something praise worthy and novel. They took steps to make it easier to vote. They did this by expanding eligibility for mailin voting and early voting and adding drop boxes for ballots. Theres a Public Health concern. You dont want everyone crowding in on election day. So, people found ways to make it easier to vote so you wouldnt have that. And the results were clear. It worked. Turnout was the highest it had been in 120 years, nearly 67 of eligible voters casting a ballot. And also there was no uniform drubing of one party by the other. It was not a blowout. It was a competitive election. Yes, joe biden won by a healthy margin, 7 million votes. 70plus Electoral College votes. But remember republicans gained seats in the house. They won some key senate races, right . Now, rather than looking at that outcome and thinking, wow, we could be a Competitive Party even in high turnout elections, which would have been a totally rational conclusion. Republicans said, no, oh, god, never again. We want fewer people to vote. We need to do everything we can to manipulate the Very Mechanisms Of American Democracy to give ourselves a competitive advantage, or its over for us. Now, today the senate had the opportunity to stop that assault on democracy, to rebalance the Playing Field with a vote on the for the people act. And what that bill would do theres a lot of parts had it not been killed by the republican filibuster this evening, would create a Permanent National floor for voting access kind of similar to the rules we saw across the country during the pandemic that led to that historic turnout, highest level of democratic participation we have seen in our lifetimes. But of course republicans view that as a purely partisan exercise. And think of this. That is because in their heart of hearts, in their deepest souls, they do not trust their own message enough to appeal to a majority of americans in a high turnout election. Mitch mcconnell even called it a power grab. Later today the senate will vote on whether to advance democrats Transparentally Plan to tilt every election permanently in their favor. By now the rotten Inner Workings of this power grab have been thoroughly exposed to the like. Its a recipe for undermining confidence in our elections, remaking our entire system of government to suit the preferences of one far end of the political spectrum. Obviously laughable bit of projection. What mcconnell claims democrats are doing is exactly precisely what has happened in state after state controlled by republicans. Earlier this year in georgia, sweeping Voter Restriction Law passed with just republican votes, Transparentally Partisan, you might say, in the state house and in the senate signed by republican governor. In iowa legislatures added new restriction for no reason. And a Party Line Vote signed into law by a republican governor. In montana two bills changing Election Laws passed the legislature almost entirely on a Party Line Vote. Governor of course also a republican. In texas, another restrictive bill passed in the senate. Party line vote, Transparentally Partisan. Before the House Democrats walked out and killed it. But theyre not done yet. Okay. So, thats the scorecard on Transparentally Partisan attempts to tilt the field, right . In term of undermining trust in the system, i mean, come on, spare me. What are we doing here . I mean, Mitch Mcconnells Republican Party is the one whose leader undermined the election even before and during and after and then culminating whipping up a violent insurrection. And then Mitch Mcconnell himself refused to vote to sanction or remove him. And now state after state is falling down the Republican Partys conspiratorial rabbit hole. As Pennsylvania State senator who chairs a Key Committee now says he wants a similar audit in his state. In fulton county, georgia, a judge is deliberating whether to allow an audit. Democratic state lawmakers in those states and all across the country have been watching this assault on Voting Rights. 480 of them signed on this letter to congressional leadership pleading with them to pass federal Voting Rights legislation. Some of those Texas Democrats who walked out of their own state house to kill that restrictive voting bill have been on capitol hill pushing for federal action. Arizonas democratic secretary of state, katie hobbs, the target of threats and harassment and vitriol, called out her own state seine na, Kyrsten Sinema for refusing to get rid of the filibuster that stands in the way of passing this law. Full democratic immunity is the only way to get this done. Senator Raphael Warnock, spent a lifetime working on these issues, before being elected thanks to last years incredible turnout eloquently laid out the stakes today. Right now across the nation, Constitutional Rights are being assaulted. And i fear that if we dont act as a body in this moment, we will have crossed a dangerous rubicon in our nation that will make it extremely difficult for the next generation to secure Voting Rights for every eligible american. This is not our house. This is the house of the people. We are stewards of that trust. We have to ensure that the voices of the people can be heard in their own house. In the end we ended up where we knew we would end up. 50 50, Party Line Vote in the United States senate tonight. Stark division, one party that is radicalized against democracy and in pursuit of its own power, a party whose leader can count on every member of the caucus no matter where they are not to defect on the most elemental questions. A party that has come to rely not only on winning over voters but on manipulating the machinery of access as texas congressman Ronny Jackson explicitly copped to yesterday. We have everything working in our favor right now. We have redistricting coming up, and the republicans control most of that prose is in most of the states around the country. That alone should get us the majority back. Sorry, four days ago. That alone should get us the majority back. Why listen to the voters . Who cares what the voters want . We control the process for redistricting. That alone. Think about that phrase there. That alone. That alone, independent of the will of the people. That alone, independent of democracy. That alone gives us power. Who cares what these people think . You know, all this reminds me of 2016 and the nomination of Merrick Garland to the nomination of the Supreme Court. And remember president barack obama and the democrats plan was to choose a compromised consensus candidate, had been lauded across the aisle. It was a way to sort of shame them into confirming him. But of course that didnt work. And there was no plan b. Now, in the democrats defense, there wasnt that much they could do. They did not control the senate at the time. There was not much they could do to force the issue. But now theyve got 50 plus one votes. They have the power if they choose to wield it. That is the question, whether they will choose to wield their power or not. There is no question about which choice Mitch Mcconnell would make if the shoe were on the other foot. Congressman james clyburn, south carolina, is the House Majority whip, and he joins me now. What is your reaction to that vote today, a vote that didnt have a lot of suspense because i think we suspected it would end up here . Well, i feel very strongly that this begins the process. Thats all thats happened here. And we are going to move forward doing what we have to do. The Vice President spoke eloquently to the fact that we are going to move forward. We are going to move forward with the Voter Empowerment act, which is a part of s. 1 and the john r. Lewis Voting Rights and advancement act. Were going to look at what you mentioned has been put forward, and i think that Stacey Abrams has already spoke favorably of it. And i, too, said that its a great first step. So, lets take a look at what hes putting forward. And i think that we ought to make a run to try to get the votes that are necessary to get it. If you dont, then i think its time for us to take a hard look at the filibuster. And let me be clear. I have never asked that the filibuster be eliminated. I do believe that we are due for constitutional institutions what weve done with the budget. Reconciliation is used in order for us to maintain the full faith and credit of the United States of america. And we ought to use reconciliation to demand democratic principles and move forward with our pursuit of a more perfect union. So, i just feel very strongly that the filibuster can be maintained while at the same time not allowing to apply the constitutional issues just so you dont the budget issue. Its worth emphasizing this point for a moment because there is at this point no conceptual coherence to the filibuster. There are two major exceptions, reconciliation, which, again, is a sort of obscure budgetary process, and then nominations, right . We got rid of that up to and including sproem Supreme Court justices and judges that have lifetime tenure. That wasnt handed down by moses in the tablets or passed down by the founding fathers. Thats complete happenstance. Thats exactly right. When you study this issue, you find out it was an oversight. Someone made a mistake, and its been used and turned into a tradition. And so tradition means in and of itself that sometimes youve got to have better laws and get beyond tradition. And look, its clear in article 1 section 4 of the constitution of the United States of america that the federal government maintains control, must maintain control. If you look at the federalist papers, its right there. Hamilton spoke to it eloquently. On three pages there, he says that federal elections must remain with the federal government. What you see here is republicans tried to turn over from pressing elections to states. That is exactly what has happened. And for Mitch Mcconnell to stay this is a takeover on our part, it is just the opposite. How Many Democrats in georgia voted for the deal be passed down there or in texas or in florida or in iowa as you just pointed out . Not a single democrat voted for any of these. So, to say that the law is no good unless you have bipartisan support will say to me that you dont believe in the 50th Amendment because the 50th Amendment that gave blacks the right to vote passed by one party vote. Its an excellent point, the 15th Amendment 14th as well we should note. In fact, big part of countrys under military rule, but it was a strange time anyways. But the deeper question to me here, congressman, is this idea of the sort of specter and to me the kind of code of federalizing elections when that is weve been fighting on that turf forever about who controls elections. And this is not a new argue. No, its not. And its never been a real problem before. As you know when i came along, i could not vote until i was 21. We have now lowered the voting age to 18. States didnt do that. The federal government did that, decided that we were sending young men at the age of 18 and 19, 20 years old off to war, and they ought to have the right to vote on whether or not that should occur. And thats what the federal government, the congress, used to lower the voting age to 18. States came along later because they didnt want to have two systems. So, this argument is very clear. The history is there. The record are there. And i dont know why Mitch Mcconnell would stand on the senate floor and misrepresent what is going on here the way he did. And that was the biggest misrepresentation ive seen from him in a long, long time. Thats saying something. Congressman james clyburn, always a pleasure to get some time with you. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. Do you remember earlier this year there was a procedural vote in the senate on raising the minimum wage to 15 an hour as a test vote. And Kyrsten Sinema infamously recorded her no vote like this, a gesture that was equal parts glib and subsequently wrong, which seems to describe a lot of her political ethos. Today shes got a new oped that is the Written Embodiment of the thumbs down moment. Well take it apart, ahead. Nt well take it apart, ahead the visionary lexus nx. Lease the 2021 nx 300 for 359 a month for 36 months. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Cookies and breyers. 359 a month for 36 months. Thats like getting two desserts wait. Do we have to thank our moms twice . 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All of this innovation could lead to some inspiration and you might be the next one to represent our nation this summer on your tv, tablet, or any Screen Xfinity is here to inspire your biggest dreams today in ways that were unimaginable to me when i was in college except when i read it in the History Books, antidemocratic forces are stronger than any time since jim crow. And its true. Thats a fact. What i was reading about in the 1980s about laws that had been fought against in the 1960s, theyre back. 250 or so of these laws that are being passed. And by the way, not a single one of those is being passed with a democratic vote, a vote from a democrat. In 250 legislatures. And do you know what else doesnt exist in any one of those legislatures . The filibuster. Senator michael bennet, democrat of colorado, talking about republicans blocking the access to the ballot has a familiar ring to it. This was shortly before Senate Republicans blocked having a debate on the for the people act election reform bill. There are advocates, there are lawyers who are working on Voting Rights issues for decades, both legislatures and in the courts. And she filed an amicus brief before the Supreme Court in january concerning the Voting Rights act. That case has yet to be decided. And she joins me now. I wanted to start with the history here which bennet alluded to and Chuck Schumer alluded to. But it seems people dont know this history, and none of it stands unless you do, unless you understand this core fight that Congressman Clyburn referred to in the 15th Amendment that has been bringing about multiracial democracy for the duration of the countrys history. I want to even go a step further than i heard Representative Clyburn Go and i heard you reference, chris, both the 14th and 15th Amendments to the Constitution Being passed not on a bipartisan basis at all with the votes of only one party. But i want to just draw attention to the structure of the 14th and 15th Amendment, both of which include Enforcement Clauses that give congress the power to enforce the provisions of the amendment. Why did they do that, chris . They did it because they knew the framers of the 14th and 15th Amendments knew very well that White Supremacists at the state level would continue to try to subvert the full citizenship of black people. So, they Gave Congress the power to enforce the 14th amendment, which ensures that black people were citizens and entitled to equal protection of the laws and the 15th Amendment, which prohibits denial of the right to vote based on race. So, this is congresss power. And its from that power that congress has the power to pass Something Like the Voting Rights act. In other words, it was understood that we would need the federal authority to step in to enforce the rights that the framers of the 14th and 15th Amendments articulated to ensure that black people, newly freed and free who had been stripped of citizenship by dred scott, would be full citizens. The idea that the federal government is stepping in in some inappropriate way, the old saw from jim crow, the old saw from massive resistance after brown, that is exactly what the framers of the 14th and 15th Amendments contemplated, that congress would step in to protect black people as citizens from what they knew would be the actions of White Supremacists in the states. In fact when White Supremacist terrorists under the klan were terrorizing black voters, the act passed to basically bring them healing, the enforcement act. Also known as the ku klux klan act. Precisely. I want to show you what Chuck Schumer said today. Take a listen. My colleagues, my colleagues, senators 60 years ago held that the federal government should never intervene to protect Voting Rights, this body would have never passed the Voting Rights act. The republican leader uses the language and the logic of the southern senators in the 60s who defended states rights and it is an indefensible position for any senator, let alone the minority leader, to hold. Thats what were seeing here. It comes down to the question before the country and the democrats of whether they can hold the caucus together to take this step that would be a big step. And what do you think about the clyburn idea, which i think is interesting, right . I think Congressman Clyburn is not a radical in any way. Hes a pretty institutionist kind of guy, a very kind of reformer i would say. And him saying, look, look, look, we dont got to scrap the whole thing, just lets were allowed to do the budget. Lets do this kind of thing with 50 votes. Look, ive been in these conversations, and i have been very clear. And thats why people should not, you know, panic about today. This is a first step. And i have said theres no excuse not to come to the table and hammer something out. Its called legislation. Nobody gets everything they want. But there are some things that have to happen, that have to happen given what is happening in the states. We know we need clearance provisions, so we know we need the Voting Rights advancement act. But we know we need protections for early voting, Absentee Voting. We need a law that keeps jurisdictions to allow you from standing in line for nine hours. We need access to Absentee Voting and automatic registration. There are elements. What are the elements that we think are necessary . Lets package those elements together. Lets make it happen. Lets let them pass. Lets not forget, chris, that it was the abdication of congress for 100 years after the ratification of 14th and 15th Amendments, the refusal to protect black votes that left black people in a position, something akin to slavery throughout jim crow for 100 years until the Voting Rights act of 1965. That was congresss failure to use their power. They must use this power now, and it is the Supreme Court has said the right to vote is preservive of all rights and fundamental. They said that in 1880. It is fundamental and more powerful than any senate rule, including the filibuster. And joe manchin and Kyrsten Sinema has to do their duty as members of the United States congress and use that power that the framers of the 14th and 15th Amendment set forth for them to use to protect fellow citizens who are being overrun by White Supremacist Voter Suppression laws. This is a serious moment in our democracy, and if we want to have a democracy going forward, we need to see some courage and we need to see some clarity, and we need to get away from all of these false historical arguments about the fill buster and get real about the moment were in in this country. Thank you so much for making time tonight. Thank you, chris. Still ahead, the bad politics of arizona senator Kyrsten Sinema choosing the filibuster when democracy is on the line. Thats next. Buster when democra the line thats next. re powerpacked vit. That help unleash your energy. Loaded with b vitamins. And other key essential nutrients. Its a tasty way to conquer your day. Try centrum multi gummies. Now with a new look. Ive got the brains youve got the looks lets make lots of money youve got the brawn ive got the brains lets make lots of uh uh uh oohhh theres a lot of opportunities with allstate, drivers who switched saved over 700. Saving is easy when youre in good hands. 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Joe manchin is a unicorn. He won his election by three points in a state trump won by 40 points. There is no one like him in the entire caucus. Sinema on the other hand won her race by a little more than two points in a state that trump lost by. 3 Percentage Points in 2020. So, she outperformed him a little. And a state where senator mark kelly won against mcsally nearly 2. 5 points. So, arizona is right now at least a blue state. Indeed, Senators Jon Ossoff and Raphael Warnock who won their states and sharon brown of ohio and Tammy Baldwin of wisconsin, they all represent states either narrowly divided or leaning more republican than sinemas arizona. So, its worth considering that what sinema is doing, the position shes taking out isnt because she has to for political reasons or not purely for that reason. But its also, i think, what she believes. The problem is that what she believes is just really wrong. Shes a cause in New York Times. And author of the phenomenal New York Times best seller The Sum Of Us which is like a Rosetta Stone for all modern politics that you should read. They both join me now. Michelle, i liked your call about this. One of the reasons i liked it was that, again, i dont think i think the starting place for analysis for understanding this is to understand that Kyrsten Sinema believes these things and isnt making a third order calculation. I mean, mark kellys not doing this and hes got the same electorate to face. Tammy baldwin is not doing this. This is just how she thinks things should be. Well, i think that Kyrsten Sinema believes in herself as a quirky maverick more than she believes necessarily what shes saying about the filibuster. She was an opponent of the filibuster as a green party activist. She and so much of what she writes in this latest Washington Post oped is just transparentally not true. She says that without the filibuster when republicans are in power, they would be able to defund agencies that democrats care about. They would be able to privatize medicare. But republicans can do that on the rules we have right now. They can do that under reconciliation. And quick fact check would have said that this is just incorrect. Similar to what she said when she defended the filibuster in the past. Its something that the senate created to encourage comedy. So, i dont know if its just that she believes facts that are wrong about the filibuster as much as she believes in maybe being the fulcrum of power in the senate and sort of not being just another loyal democrat. Yeah, i think thats also a good analysis. Your point there, that point in the oped, heather, the one thing that i think people who defend the filibuster, you know, the one nontan jen, argument is you will open up the path for more aggressive efforts and narrower majorities of the other side to do stuff. But the problem is as michelle said, on the aca, we needed 60 votes to pass it as the democrats would say and 50 votes to repeal it as the republicans would say, right . Its like we already got a lot of symmetry already baked in there. Right. And its here to stay. I mean, this is where this is not a good political argument because what democrats want to do, address climate change, invest in infrastructure, provide more health care to americans, child care, jobs, debtfree college, is wildly popular, rout out corruption in our election system, again, wildly popular. What has happened, we dont have to look far in the past, to win the Republicans Health in majority and couldnt. We have to trust the majority of the people in this country. And thats whats on the line is Majority Rule. They couldnt repeal the aca not because of the filibuster but because people did not want it. Not only that, if you want to talk about recent examples, michelle, they came into office and passed the American Rescue plan quickly, on a Party Line Vote. And in two weeks, 92 of households in this country with children are going to start getting monthly checks. And no ones going to not like that. There is no no ones going crazy about that. Theres no Big Tea Party protest against that. Thats just pass popular stuff on whatever Party Line Vote. And i think you could argue that democrats would be fine to sort of call republicans bluff. In some ways the filibuster protects republicans from the unpopularity of their agenda, right . I have no doubt that when republicans are back in power, as they will be, they will pass things like the trump tax cuts, which by the way you need didnt 6 ovotes to pass. Theyll pass things that democrats abhor. But right now they kind of they cant pass their agenda except for the financial stuff, which is what they really care about the most, the financial stuff and judges. They cant pass the stuff that they promise to their base but that most of the country would reject. If there was no filibuster, they would actually also have to make good on some of their campaign promises, and the American People could judge them accordingly. Its a really good point, and it comes down, i think, to this faith in democracy and what your agenda is. And i think, heather, youre so right that the republicans are showing tremendous almost contempt for their own platform in the way they are going about things right now. And one of the things your book, i think, points out is, like, doing popular things that benefit a lot of people is good politics, and you should trust that to be the case more than whatever procedural gamesmanship you get up to. Thats right. And it really is a multiracial democracy thats on the line here. By choosing the filibuster, a jim crow relic, over the notverylong history of having a functional multiracial democracy in this country, which only existed in real terms since 1965 with the Voting Rights act, on the wrong side of history. Shes on the wrong side of the majority of American Voters who understand the filibuster is blocking progress and contributing to gridlock. Republican voters are happy about that, but they know it doesnt promote bipartisanship. Double digit americans want to see it eliminated or curtailed for different types of legislation. And the cynical reverse of what you said getting rid of it and making republicans say 20 week abortion ban which is one of the things democrats successfully filibustered. Is democrats getting to say, like, we tried, which theres some honestly i think theres a little bit of incentive for that too. Gave it our all. What are you going to do . Yeah, no, i think its been wildly reported that although sinema and manchin are the ones out there defending the filibuster that theres other senators who are not unhappy with the status quo. But, you know, the democratic party, the people who put them in power are unhappy with the status quo. And its really becoming increasingly intolerable. Michelle goldberg and heather mcgee, thank you so much for coming on tonight. Thank you. Next the early pandemic solution floated by President Trump that we would have sent Infected Americans with covid to git mow. Dr. Anthony fauci on how far weve come, how far we still need to go just ahead. W r fawe l need to go just ahead. Sometimes you wanna go where Everybody Knows your name and theyre always glad you came welcome back, america. It sure is good to see you. Wondering what actually goes into your multivitamin . At new chapter, welcome back, america. Its innovation, organic ingredients, and fermentation. Fermentation . Yes. 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This is where dreams become brick and mortar. Find yours, on loopnet. We knew. We knew, we knew, we knew from the very beginning of the pandemic that donald trump wanted above all else to keep the reported infection numbers, the numbers, not the actual disease, low. We knew that because on March 6th Of Last year when american citizens with covid were stranded on a cruise ship off the coast of san francisco, he was asked what we should do about them. This is what he said. They would like to have the people come off. I would rather have the people stay, but i would go with them. I told them to make the final decision. I would rather, because i like the numbers being where they are. I dont need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasnt our fault. I dont need to have the numbers double. At the time time, Donald Trumps solution to a once in a century pandemic was to keep americans with covid stranded on a ship to suppress the numbers. Well, nearly six months since he left office, we continue to learn just how callous and determined he was to keep those numbers down. According to a new book ability his spons to the bank, in the early days, as white house debated whether to bring Infected Americans home for care, President Donald Trump suggested his own plan for where to send them, eager to suppress the numbers on u. S. Soil. Dont we have an island that we own, the president reportedly asked those assembled in the situation in February 2020 before the u. S. Outbreak would explode. What about guantanamo. Donald trump wanted to send sick americans to guantanamo rather than treat them here. Would be almost funny, i suppose, if it was not so horrifying. This was the core original sin of the response of donald trump himself and covid from the very beginning. Americans did not need the president to come with crazy outofthebox ideas with how to suppress the numbers like to keep them on a base or ship them off to a naval base in cuba. We needed good leadership that was focused on suppressing the virus itself, not tricking everyone into thinking everything was fine for the sake of his reelection. And its important to remember donald trump knew the virus was deadly from the beginning. Quote, you just breathe the air, and thats how its passed. Thats a very tricky one. So, he knew americans would die. And his attempt to hide the covid numbers for his own political benefit, i think, led to hundreds of thousands of deaths n. Fact a study published in a medical journal earlier this year found 40 of the deaths could have been prevented if the United States matched other industrialized nations. 40 kt approximate. Donald trump got hundreds of thousands of americans killed who did not need to die. And i will damned if that is going to go down the memory hole. If all goes right in the world, the first paragraph in this chapter of the History Books will president who knowingly oversaw the catastrophic response to a plague that killed over 600,000 people. That is the true legacy of donald trump. That legacy lives on now in many states, typically conservative states, states where people died at the highest rates and people were not getting vaccinated at even close to the rates in blue states. Were starting to see case numbers tick up in exactly the places you would expect from looking at those vaccination rates. We are seeing the effects of the toxic and devastating legacy of donald trump right now in the places that support him the most. Well talk about the impact of that legacy and how to do undo it with dr. Anthony fauci next. O it with dr. Anthony fauci next hooh. That spin class was brutal. Well you can try using the buicks massaging seat. Oohh yeah, thats nice. Can i use apple carplay to put some music on . Sure, its wireless. Pick something we all like. Ok. Hold on. Whats your buicks wifi password . buickenvision2021. oh, you should pick something stronger. Thats really predictable. Thats a really tight spot. Dont worry. I used to hate parallel parking. [all together] me too. Hey. You really outdid yourself. Yes, we did. The allnew buick envision. An suv built around you. All of you. This. Is what freedom sounds like. And this. This is what Freedom Smells like. An suv built around you. Ahhh, enjoy 30 days of openroad freshness. Febreze car. Hey, mom. Ill never say this but. Thanks for telling me everyone 12 and older is eligible for the covid19 vaccine. both thank you for getting past our walls. Thanks, honey, for always being there for me. Thanks for letting me know, in Clinical Trials vaccines. Prevented nearly 100 of hospitalizations and deaths due to covid. Thank you for loving me that much. Thanks. [lazer beam and sizzling sounds] Emergency Planning for kids. We cant predict when an emergency will happen. So thats why its important to make a plan with your parents. Here are a few tips to stay safe. Know how to get in touch with your family. Write down Phone Numbers for your parents, siblings and neighbors. Pick a place to meet your family if you are not together and cant go home. Remind your parents to pack an emergency supply kit. Making a plan might feel like homework, but it will help you and your family stay safe during an emergency. New york city had its biggest concert in over a year where the foo fighters performed in front of an allvaccinated crowd. Things are also headed the wrong way in states with low vaccination rates, where the highly contagious Delta Variant is getting a foothold. At the beginning of may, President Biden announced an aggressive goal of vaccinating 70 of adults by july 4th. Today the Biden Administration announced the country will narrowly miss that goal. The question is now how to push against what looks like a Vaccine Ceiling in many parts of the country. Dr. Anthony fauci is with us. Earlier today he warned the new Delta Variant is the greatest threat to eliminating covid19 in the United States, and he joins me now. Lets start with that right now. You know, a few months ago i started taking up a kind of fairly bullish banner on covid because the vaccines look so efficacious, and particularly as deployment got better it felt like, okay. The first time i started to feel bearish again is in the last few weeks, and its because of these numbers. This is 14day covid changing cases in the states with the highest changes. Missouri, 55 , 53, arkansas 46 , utah 24, arizona, 8. How worried are you about that . Im quite concerned at states and people who dont get vaccinated, chris. The situation is so clear, the data affirmed. If you get vaccinated, you are protected even with the Delta Variant, which by the way has a capacity to spread from person to person. And when youre infected, it has a greater likelihood of giving you serious disease. We know that as a fact from our own country, but particularly from the experience in the uk. The vaccines we have do protect well against the Delta Variant. So, if ever there was a reason to get vaccinated, its right now because were seeing this Delta Variant double every two weeks. Were up to 20. 6 of the isolates now are Delta Variants. A few weeks ago, it was like 2 or 3 or 4 . So, weve got to get the job done. I mean, its really unfortunate and somewhat puzzling when the data are right in front of you and you know exactly what you need to do to protect against these types of numbers which you showed on the screen. And yet some people still are not getting vaccinated. That is very frustrating. I guess the question is what to do. One of the things that i think is important to communicate in terms of risk here is theres two parts to the risk. Theres vaccination and your health and age profile, then theres the rate of Community Transmission. Once Community Transmission starts going up, your risk is going up. Thats true even for vaccinated people, but really true for young, nonvaccinated people, i think, who a lot of have felt fairly immune from this or fairly in these places. We saw it in the uk. We saw hospitalization among young people go up in a way that was really quite distinct and worrying. Right. Well, first of all, you know, we are doing very well among people who are adults. I mean, if you look at 30 and over, we have greater than 70 of those people have at least one dose of a vaccine. So, that group thats interesting. But youre absolutely correct, chris yeah. Youre absolutely correct. We need to focus on the 18 to 26 year olds because thats the group that in england youre absolutely correct if you look at the Delta Variant that has now surged in england, its predominantly among younger people. So, you know, its kind of a mixed bag. If you look at the totality of the picture, the emphasis on vaccination that President Biden has made has been quite frankly overall very successful. Were almost at the 70 vaccination with one dose of adults when we reach the fourth of july. If we dont get it by then, were going to get it within a week or so. But we dont want to stop there. Thats an aspirational goal. The goal line is crushing the virus with as many vaccinations as you possibly can. And i just think this is where theres two worlds that spool out before us, which is, look, ive had you on the program many times now. Ive been covering this as just a journalist and not a Public Health expert for whatever, 15, 16 months. But i know one thing. Its either going down or going up. The virus goes in one direction. Its really growing or its slin shrinking. Everything curves. When you start to think about growing, you think about the thing bopping around in communities with low vaccination rates, maybe further mutations. And we also know what last winter was like and the difference between am i wrong about that . The difference between a fully vaccinated country and not going into the winter is massive. Well, its important if youre not vaccinated. If you look at the people, the states, the cities, the counties that are hardly vaccinated, theyre safe. Their risk is extremely low. What we worry about are the states you put up on the screen and the people in those states who are at risk for a variant thats quite problematic. Thats the situation, chris. If youre vaccinated, you dont have a risk. And thats the reason why we say its as simple as black and white. Youre vaccinated, youre safe. Youre unvaccinated, youre at risk. Simple as that. The data you just mentioned i hadnt seen broken out, and it might be the cdc dashboard has gotten very good and i just might not have gotten through it. If you take adults 30 and over, that youre in the weve reached that threshold, right . 70 with at least one shot. So, that really speaks to me that there really is a Demographic Group here that there has to be some messaging focus on. I dont know what that looks like, but that seems like pretty important. And thats what we are doing, chris. I mean, when you talk about our famous Basketball Analogies that we play with each other back and forth, this is a fullcourt press time. This is doing things ive been on tiktok with young people. Ive gone with mayor bowser knocking on doors. I was talking to the conference of mayors today of getting the mayors out in the streets, getting their constituents vaccinated, particularly concentrating on that younger demographic between 18 and 30 26, excuse me. What is the whats the cost look like . I mean, weve got the Delta Variant bopping around. The other thing i keep thinking about is this variant does seem very distinct. Weve had other previous iterations. But just the transmission the Mutation Risk as we go forward the question of whether this is something that we, like, suppress and kill off or sort of snuff out both here in the u. S. And globally or we basically end up with this unending chain of Mutations Bopping around all the time, which is almost too awful to contemplate. Yes, chris. You said it well. It could be said really simply. Viruses dont mutate if they dont replicate. So, if you stop the transmission and the replication, youre not going to get anymore mutations. If you allow the virus to spread and replicate, then you give it an opportunity to mutate. And thats the reason what we have to shut it down. Shut it down throughout the country in all age groups. Final question. Kids over 12, i think, right, are under the Emergency Use Authorization for at least one of the vaccines. Do we have any thought of that age dropping down, any timeline for that . Oh, absolutely, chris. Were doing studies right now in children from 12 to 9 and then from 9 to 6 and then from 6 to 2. Theyre called age deescalation studies. Were in the middle of that now. We anticipate by the time we get into the fall and early winter we will have the capability because of the knowledge that we generated to vaccinate children of almost any age. Thats i think the most specific and concrete ive heard that said so far. Thats very encouraging. Right. Final question thats what were doing. The Clinical Trials are ongoing right now. Final question for you right now, how much is the mrna technology, which is debuted here at scale, how transformational is that . I keep reading incredible new avenues of research for other vaccinations that might happen on that platform. Absolutely. Its transformative, chris. It has been highly, highly successful with covid19. And right now, even as we speak, investigators are applying it to hiv vaccines, to malaria, to tuberculosis, to influenza, and even to cancer immunotherapy. So, right now it was so successful with covid19, a lot of people, good people, good scientists are working on a number of other. Thats right. Dr. Anthony fauci, a pleasure as always, sir. See you soon. That is all in on the tuesday night. The Rachel Maddow show starts