Transcripts For MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show 20240711

So again, apologies for things looking a little higgltypigglty. No reason to worry. I will be back in the studio tomorrow night. Okay, january 2009, when barack obama was inaugurated as the 44th president of the United States with joe biden as his Vice President , in january 2009, over 800,000 americans had just lost their jobs. The Great Recession caused by insanity in the financial industry and the accompanying Wall Street Collapse. The economy had been Hemorrhaging Jobs for months at a rate not seen since the great depression, when President Obama was inaugurated. Unemployment was headed for 10 . The Wall Street Collapse had wiped out trillions of dollars in wealth. People were hurting. People were very scared. And one of the reasons people had just elected obama and biden by a nearly 10 millionvote margin, and also given democrats control of the house and the senate, by huge margins, was that americans really desperately wanted the new government to dig the country out of the smoking, gaping economic crater that had been left by the outgoing Republican Administration. And so, right after the inauguration, in january 2009, the new president and the new Democraticled Congress got to work right away. Not even one week in on President Obamas sixth day in office, democrats introduced a Stimulus Bill designed to pull the u. S. Back from the economic cliff that we were at that moment already plummeting over. The bill was designed to rescue the economy from the free fall that we were in, and it was also designed to have broad bipartisan appeal, while it was trying to accomplish that end. There was direct investment in Infrastructure Projects to get people back to work. There was aid to State Governments and local governments that were just reeling from the economic disaster. A whole third of the bill was tax cuts, even though that was probably the least efficient part of the new bill, in terms of how a stimulus would work on the economy in real life. A third of the bill was tax cuts, because that was designed to make republicans happy. But when the new president , when President Obama sat down with Republican Leaders in congress to talk to them about their ideas for stimulus, they basically had just two ideas about the stimulus. Two. One is that they said the Stimulus Bill was too big, it should be smaller. The proposal for that bill was close to 1 trillion. They said the number 1 trillion is so big, we cant possibly do that. Republican senator john thune from South Dakota Helpfully pointed out at the time that if you stacked 100 bills on top of each other, by the time you got to 1 trillion, that stack would be very, very tall or if you tied those bills end to end, which seems like a real waste of time, he said they would wrap around the earth a lot itd be very large numbers of things. So, that was their one idea, such as it was, the bill should be smaller. If we make an imaginary stack of cash dollars to imagine the size of it, it should be a shorter imaginary stack. Economics. Their other idea was that instead of a full third of the bill being tax cuts, the whole thing should be tax cuts, and there should be no Stimulus Spending in it at all. So, President Obama and the Democraticled Congress in 2009, they had put together a Stimulus Bill with some things that democrats liked and some things that republicans liked. They were all aimed at rescuing the economy. They went to the republicans and said, okay, you know, this is designed to be a bipartisan package. Theres a whole bunch of stuff in it that we know you like. How can we get your votes . How can we make this bill better . What would you like to see changed here so we can get some republican votes on board here . Shouldnt we all be pulling in the same direction . And the republicans said, you know, well, just give us the tax cuts, the thing we like, get rid of all the stuff that you like, and then maybe well think about giving you a deal. Now, to be clear, at the time, the democrats didnt need any republican votes to pass this really important bill, this bill that the country really, really needed. They wanted republican votes because, in part, President Obama had run on restoring bipartisanship and compromise. But the republicans didnt give any constructive input on the bill. They just offered to scrap it, and instead have their own bill, which had nothing to do with anything the democrats had prioritized or anything that they wanted. That said, the Obama White House really, really didnt want President Obamas first major legislation to pass with only democratic votes. So, part of their strategy is that they turned to a republican senator from maine named Susan Collins. And Susan Collins said that her vote was in play. She would vote for that Stimulus Bill, as long as the bill was shrunk below 800 billion. Why did she need it shrunk below 800 billion . Because, she said at the time, it was a, quote, fiscally responsible number. She didnt explain why that was the fiscally responsible number. She just liked the number better. In other words, senator collins didnt look out at the wreckage of the American Economy then and ask, what amount of investment would be sort of best calibrated to fix the economy at that point. She just picked this number that sounded like the rightsize number to her, and she made the democrats shrink their bill below that number in order to get her vote. If they wanted her vote, thats what they would have to do. The Stimulus Bill passed the house with zero republican votes. It passed the senate with three Republican Senate votes, including senator collins. One of those republicans that voted for it actually switched parties and became a democrat two months later, so, how do you catalog that in terms of a bipartisan vote . But the recovery act that President Obama signed into law less than a month into his presidency, it did do a lot of good. It did rescue the u. S. From the brink of economic collapse, and it did start slowly bringing the economy back to health from, again, the crisis at that point that was the worst since the great depression. But it started bringing the countrys economy back not just slowly, but very, slowly. What most economists and experts have determined now, looking back at that whole process, looking back at the recovery act and how it worked. But honestly, you dont have to be an economist to see. You just have to be an american who lived through that painfully slow recovery. What is clear in retrospect is, while the stimulus did some good, it very obviously needed to be bigger. And we know, because we lived through that time, that it could have been bigger. It could have been bigger. That would have been better. And the economy could have roared back to life faster. There could have been less economic pain for americans. And americans, crucially, would have felt the power of government do something good in their lives much more directly. If the Stimulus Bill hadnt been arbitrarily cut down to a pick it out of a hat number, just to get a couple of republican votes, just to be able to claim bipartisanship. And then, after that experience with the recovery act, the whole thing happened again with health care. President obama and Congressional Democrats spent a year negotiating with republicans in congress, which they didnt need to do, trying to find some kind of bill on Health Care Reform that could get republican votes. The white house agreed to put the whole Health Care Bill on hold while a Bipartisan Group of six senators worked on a compromise. How did that go . Well, in the middle of their months of negotiation, one of the republican senators went home to his constituents in wyoming and told them he had no intention of ever voting for any Health Care Bill, proudly bragging to them about how good he had been at holding up the process by negotiating in bad faith. Because that group of bipartisan senators told the white house to wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, while they worked out on their compromise. He admitted to his constituents, he had no intention of ever voting for it, no matter what they agreed upon to change the bill. He told his constituents, quote, its not where i get them to compromise, its what i get them to leave out. He said, quote, if i hadnt been involved in this process as long as i have and to the depth as i have, you would already have National Health care. Another of the republican negotiators that year was iowa senator chuck grassley. For months and months, democrats had kept making changes to the Health Care Bill, things that grassley was insisting on, until President Obama finally called Senator Grassley to the white house and called his bluff. President obama writes in his memoir about that meeting. He says, quote, i listened patiently as grassley ticked off five new reasons why he still had problems with the latest version of the bill. I said, finally, let me ask you a question, chuck. If we took every one of your latest suggestions, would you support the bill . Well are there any changes, any at all, that could get us your vote . President obama says there was an awkward silence before grassley looked up and met my gaze. I guess not, mr. President. In the end, the final bill, the final Affordable Care act obamacare that President Obama signed into law it contained nearly 200 republican amendments. It was a marketbased system, almost entirely dependent on private health insurers. Its the kind of Health Care Reform republicans had championed for years, and it was disappointing in all kinds of ways to democrats and to Health Care Reformers who wanted a more fundamental, more stable change. But democrats had compromised again and again, dozens of times, actually, hundreds of times, In The Name Of bipartisanship around that bill. And in the end, the Affordable Care act got zero republican votes in the United States senate got one republican vote in the house. And obamacare was a remarkable accomplishment. President s had tried and failed for generations to reform our screwedup Health Care System in this country. The aca has done an incredible amount of good. Its gotten millions of People Health insurance who werent able to get it before, and its only grown in popularity in the decadeplus since it was passed. But you would be hard pressed to find a democrat involved in the process of getting it passed who doesnt regret how much better that might have been, if they hadnt spent all that time appeasing republicans who were never going to vote for it anyway, whose ideas didnt make the bill any better. Made it less ambitious, less successful, less stable, and they didnt vote for it anyway, even when all those changes were made to their insistence. If you could get all that back, get the thing passed so much faster, itd be so much better. You wouldnt have wasted all that time and political capital. You could have moved on and done other stuff. But after health care, it was the same deal again on immigration. President obama brought back an Immigration Reform bill that a lot of republicans had supported just a few years before. Republicans told him they would negotiate a reform bill, if President Obama worked with them on the matter, and specifically, if he agreed to prioritize improving Border Security as the first thing that happened. So, President Obama did that. He spent hundreds of millions of dollars on hightech fencing, and he tripled the number of Intelligence Analysts who worked on the border, and he deployed drones to surveil the border. He jacked up deportations to Hundreds Of Thousands per year, all to the horror of many people in his own party, but thats what republicans said he needed to do if he wanted to be able to work with them on an immigration bill. And so, after he did all that, he turned to these republicans to show that he had upheld his part of the bargain. And then they killed the immigration bill, anyway. Even republicans who had voted for that exact same immigration proposal just years earlier it was their own idea voted against it, once President Obama brought it up as president , even after he followed through on his part of the deal, which is what they said he needed to do in order to get their buyin. They got him to do all that stuff, and then they walked away anyway. And now here we are. That wasnt that long ago. It was, you know, several lifetimes ago, if you go by all of our physical health and stress and how much weve aged since the end of the obama presidency. But it wasnt that long ago. Its not ancient history. And now here we are. Democrats have taken control of the presidency and both houses of congress again, for the First Time Since they pulled it off in 2009. But there is something quite different this time. This time, the entire Democratic Party is basically singing the same tune, from the white house to the senate to the House Of Representatives. They remember what happened the last time they were in this situation in 2009, and they are not going to let what happened under President Obama happen again this time. Look at 2008, where we spent a year and a half trying to get something good done aca obamacare and we didnt do all the other things that had to be done. We will not repeat that mistake. We will not repeat that mistake. We will not repeat that mistake. Senate majority leader chuck schumer, here on this show just last week, talking about the mistake that democrats made in trying to work with republicans on obamacare. We will not make that mistake again. Just yesterday, he reiterated the point to the new york daily news, talking about the 2009 stimulus. He said, quote, we cannot do the mistake of 2009, where they whittled down the program so that the amount of relief was so small that the recession lasts four or five years. This time around, the head of the Budget Committee in the senate is senator Bernie Sanders of vermont. Budget committee is the committee that Will Shepherd President Bidens Covid Relief Bill through the United States senate. Senator sanders was on chris hayes show just last hour here on msnbc, and he, too, has been making this same point the important thing is getting a good bill passed, the best possible bill passed, a bill that will help the economy. And if republicans want to come along with that, great, but either way, we are moving forward. If they want to come along and help pass a good bill, fine. If they want to make the bill less good, then theyre not interested. In the republicans coming along to hurt the bill and make it less effective. Budget chairman, senator sanders, Democratic Senate leader, senator schumer, singing absolutely from the same him national. The number two democrat in the senate also appeared to be on the same page, telling reporters that hes willing to consider making changes to President Bidens covid relief proposal, if, and only if, republicans guarantee that they will vote for the bill, if their ideas are incorporated into it. Illinois senator dick durbin, number two democrat in the senate now, saying, quote, you can take the 1. 9 trillion package and identify elements within that might be subject to revision or amendment, so long as republicans are telling us and with those changes we will support you, meaning, we are not going to once again make all of these changes and waste all of this time while you make the bill worse, saying thats what we need to do in order to get your votes only to have you not give us your votes anyway. Why would we make the bill worse for you in that circumstance . The Biden White House is now making the same point as well. Here was White House Press secretary jen psaki on this exact program, on this exact point just last week. I promise you, ive been in this town long enough, so has President Biden. Nobodys naive in the white house about how hard its going to be, or none of us think that republicans are just going to lay down and work with us overnight, but we feel like we have to try. This cant be a game thats played where we wait and wait and wait and negotiate and negotiate and negotiate. So, Lessons Learned, right . Everybody appears to be on the same page here, in terms of whos got power on the democratic side. The democrats know what republicans did in 2009, the last time democrats had control of the house and the senate and the white house. They say, we are not playing those Reindeer Games again. We learned that lesson. The country definitely and desperately needs relief. Were not going to interfere with that. Were not going to step that down and give the country less of what they need in order to keep you happy, when youre not negotiating in good faith anyway. Weve seen you do this before. Were not doing it again. Democrats are all on the same page. Republicans today are still trying it. They want to try this one neat trick, once again. Ten republican senators, led by Susan Collins, have proposed a Covid Relief Bill that is very, very small, quite undersized, given the state the economy is in right now, for the state the battle against coronavirus is in right now. What theyre proposing is less than a third of what President Biden has proposed as what the country needs. And again, the reason for proposing this tiny, little bill, is the same argument they made with the last time democrats had to rescue the country from what a Republican Administration left in its hulking, steaming wake. Its the same argument from the stimulus in 2009. They just want the bill to be smaller. Theyd prefer you know, things are so much cuter when theyre smaller. They like the sound of smaller numbers better. Its easier to remember, you know. But theyre, once again, holding out that tantalizing idea of bipartisanship. If the bill just gets smaller and less effective, hey, maybe the republicans will come along. Maybe. No promises, but they might. There are ten republicans who are saying they would prefer to do this tiny, little bill. With ten republican votes, democrats could get through a republican filibuster by the rest of the republicans in the senate, but if the democrats go it alone, if they pass the bill through a maneuver thats called reconciliation, they dont need to do anything to try to get republican votes. They can just pass whatever bill they want with just 50 democratic votes, plus Vice President harris casting the tiebreaker. Tonight, President Biden hosted those ten republicans, proposing this little plan, at the white house. This is the first inperson meeting that President Biden has had with lawmakers at the white house since he has been president. He brought those ten republican senators up to the white house. And i think we know him well enough to know that that is basically the way that President Biden is wired, and the White House Press secretary making clear that President Biden is happy to hear those senators out, happy to talk, happy to hear what they have to say. Senator Susan Collins emerged afterwards and told reporters it had been a, quote, productive, cordial twohour meeting. The white house put out its own statement about the meeting calling it a substantive and productive discussion. But the white house also said this quote, while there were areas of agreement, the president also reiterating his view that Congress Must respond boldly and urgently and noted many areas which the republican senators proposal doesnt address. He reiterated that while he is hopeful that the rescue plan can pass with bipartisan support, a Reconciliation Package is a path to achieve that end. Even if democrats go this route, even if they use this process where they would only need 50 democratic votes to pass their plan, nothing says republicans cant still vote for it, right . I mean, if they negotiate in good faith, they can still maybe even make changes to the bill. They can make changes that maybe everybody will agree with, that are constructive suggestions. But democrats do appear to be united this time around in saying that theyre not going to let their legislation be held hostage, they are not going to do something that is worse for the country because republicans demand it. Lessons learned. So, what happens next . Joining us now is jared bernstein, a member of President Bidens council of economic advisers, a former chief economist and economic adviser to biden when he was Vice President. Mr. Bernstein, great to see you. Congratulations on the big gig in the administration. Its really nice to have you here. My pleasure. Thanks for inviting me. First, let me just ask you if that little bit of history comports with the way that you see it and if those Lessons Learned, as i see it from the outside, feel like the same Lessons Learned from those of you who are on the inside of some of those decisions . Well, you kind of were describing my life 12, 13 years ago. So, yeah, thats as if it was yesterday. And i was very happy, not only to hear your history, but also to see so many members of congress, democrats saying, we remember, weve been there, weve been to this rodeo, and republicans need to hear that. And whats so, i think, critical, is that theyre not just hearing it from the usual folks they negotiate with on the hill, theyre hearing it from President Biden. He was just unequivocally clear today that he was more than happy to sit down and exchange views, and if you can, you know, get in the boat and help row, theres a seat for you. But he will not slow down our work on the urgent crisis of responding to our health care and economic dual crises, and he will not settle for any package that fails to meet this moment with the magnitude to finally knock covid back on its feet, get it behind us, and launch a robust and inclusive and a racially equitable recovery. Can you tell us if there are or what can you tell us about whats described already by the white house as some areas of agreement . It seems like there is a constructive cast to some of these discussions. There may be areas in which the white house and democrats in congress and republicans in congress agree on what needs to be done. Can you tell us about any of those substantive areas . And if there is anything that the republicans are asking for that democrats werent otherwise considering, that President Biden might be inclined toward . I dont think there is any of the latter, anything new that theyre bringing to the table. I do think there is agreement on Business Relief and there is certainly some agreement on addressing the covid crisis. What i think you have to do, rachel, is get under the hood and look at where some of the differences are, even in areas of grievance. So, while the republicans have Unemployment Insurance enhancements in their bill, that its considerably less than the president has in his bill. They also have checks to directing Impact Payments to people, but those checks are scaled back, and i believe from some comments coming out of the white house tonight, theyre scaled back at a level that, you know, the president would judge to be too far. The president s bill, the American Rescue act, has 170 billion in it to reopen the schools. Now, ive got to stop here for a second, because i dont think this is a democrat versus republican issue. I dont think its a blue state or a red state issue. There are a whole cohort of kids whose Lifetime Earnings will be permanently reduced, probably somewhere between 5 and 10 , if they miss a year of schooling. There are 2 million parents mostly moms out of the labor market because of their care responsibilities. So i dont care what side of the aisle im on, you should be willing to reopen the schools, and 20 billion is not a serious offer when it comes to that. They left out so, heres something they left out the Child Tax Credit expansion. In the president s plan, the Child Tax Credit expansion lowers the Child Poverty rate by 50 . This is a huge advance for people on the bottom leg of the k in this kshaped recovery. Folks who have been just fighting to keep their homes over their head and keep food on the table. They also left out state and local relief, which is so essential both to Virus Control and vaccine distribution. Jared, let me just ask you one last question on this point. One of the things that had been said to be potentially included in the Covid Relief Bill was an increase in the minimum wage to 15 an hour. And im no expert on this stuff, but when i looked at the way that pelosi and schumer had set up the Covid Relief Bill to potentially be passed by reconciliation, which, again, is something they could do without any republican votes in support, it didnt look to me like the minimum wage hike was included there. Is that something that cant be done by reconciliation . That would have to be done by a process that would be subject to the republicans filibustering it . You know, this is a very good question. Its a bit of a tall Muda Question and the only person who probably knows the answer is the senate parliamentarian, the person who makes these calls. Typically, when something doesnt have a budgetary cost, its hard to get into a reconciliation bill. There are some associated with the minimum wage, but thats probably all we want to say about budget process tonight. I will say this, there are tens of millions of Essential Workers who, if the minimum wage were increased, as in the president s plan, would get closer to earning a living wage. These are Fulfillment Workers in warehouses. These are Home Health Care workers. These are sanitation workers. These are people in the retail sector. So, these are people who are on the job in some states earning 7. 25 an hour, unconscionably low wage. So when republicans say the minimum wage has nothing to do with this, the words i have back for them are two Essential Workers. Jared bernstein, a member of President Bidens council of economic advisers, a longtime adviser to mr. Biden. Jared, its great to see you. Come back frequently. Were excited about your job in the administration. Really happy to have you here in that capacity. Always happy to be here. Thank you. All right, thanks. All right, weve got much more to come here this monday night. Again, the only reason this backdrop looks weird is because im snowed in. Nothing to worry about in terms of me not being in the studio. But its going to be a rocky show because of it. All right, well be right back. Stay with us. Er neighbor . Sure, hes the 76yearold guy who still runs marathons, right . Sadly, not anymore. Wow. So sudden. Um, were not about to have the we need Life Insurance conversation again, are we . No, were having the were getting coverage so we dont have to worry about it conversation. So youre calling about the 9. 95 a month plan from Colonial Penn . I am. We put it off long enough. We are getting that 9. 95 plan, today. jonathan is it time for you to call about the 9. 95 plan . Im jonathan from Colonial Penn Life Insurance company. Sometimes we just need a reminder not to take today for granted. 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As you can see, its signed by jay sekulow and the white house counsel, pat cipollone. We got one of these a year ago for President Trumps first impeachment. Tomorrow, on Groundhog Day, were going to get one of those again for President Trumps second impeachment, because for all of his faults, for all of his failings, the one thing you can never take away from president donald j. Trump is that he is the only president ever in the history of the country to be impeached twice. Mazel tov. This time, though, hes not going to have the same lawyers defending him. Mr. Sekulow and mr. Cipollone have both, apparently, said they want nothing to do with defending President Trump in this second Impeachment Trial. The president has reportedly had a very hard time finding any lawyers at all to defend him in this impeachment. Republican senator Lindsey Graham finally was able to set up President Trump with some lawyers that he knew from South Carolina . But this weekend, that all fell apart, too. Cnn was first to report, then the washington post, the New York Times, and nbc news all confirmed that the president , on saturday, lost all five of the lawyers who were going to be his impeachment defense team. The problem, apparently, was that, quote, trump wanted them to make the case during the trial that he actually won the election. To do so would require citing his false claims of election fraud. Trump repeatedly said he wanted to litigate the voter fraud allegations and the 2020 race. Butch bowers who was set to lead the Trump Defense team, told trump he could not mount the defense that trump wanted. And so, butch bowers and the other four lawyers on the defense team that were all lined up for trump, they all quit this weekend. And as i mentioned, the first filing in trumps defense for the Senate Impeachment trial is due tomorrow. As of saturday night, he had no lawyers. The president has now hired two new lawyers as of yesterday to provide his defense. They have their work cut out for them, and they are going to have to act quickly. Their first filing is due tomorrow. But remember what hes being impeached for, right . President trump is being impeached for inciting an insurrection against the u. S. Government, by leading a mob of his supporters to attack the u. S. Capitol while the president ial Election Results were being certified because he told that mob the results were wrong, the Election Results were fraudulent, and if they didnt fight that day at the u. S. Capitol while the vote was being certified, they wouldnt have a country left. If, as that goes to trial, the president is now demanding that his defense to that charge in his trial must be to try to advance the big lie, that somehow, the election was stolen, and therefore, what . Hes still the rightful president . He secretly won the election . What, the attack on the capitol was justified . Then, honestly, how are republican senators acting as jurors in the senate trial going to cast their vote . Are they all going to vote that, yeah, the election was a fraud and trump is secretly still the president , he should be reinstated for another term . Are they really going to do that . Are they really going to vote with that . Because thats reportedly the way the president wants to defend himself in his Second Senate trial. Now, the new lawyers that he just hired, apparently, were not easy to find. One is a selfdescribed mafia lawyer who was also part of roger stones Legal Defense team. How did roger stones Legal Defense go . Hmm. Youll recall, he was charged with seven felonies and he was convicted of all of them and then was sentenced to years in federal prison before President Trump pardoned him and commuted the sentence. So, the guy that was part of stones defense team, thats one of President Trumps new lawyers. The other one is a lawyer best known for refusing to bring charges against Comedian Bill Cosby for drugging and raping multiple women. As a prosecutor, he not only didnt bring charges against cosby while he was the prosecutor in the relevant jurisdiction, he also attacked and sued one of cosbys victims, himself. That prosecutor was voted out of office. His successor then did bring charges against bill cosby, whereupon, of course, cosby was convicted and sent to jail. So, make what you will as to the lengths President Trump has had to go to get any lawyers to defend him in his second Impeachment Trial. The new lawyers are saying publicly now that they are not on board with defending President Trump at his Impeachment Trial by claiming that trump somehow secretly won the election and joe biden isnt president. They say that they dont want to go along with that kind of a defense, but that, per multiple, confirming news sources this weekend, that is the defense President Trump wants to mount. And so, well see. Well see in that filing thats due tomorrow, and well see how republican senators try to cope with that, if they are still going to continue to side with donald trump on this, if his defense against inciting the Capitol Attack is that the Capitol Attack was basically justified and he should be reinstated in the white house. I mean, hows the Republican Party going to contend with that, if thats what he puts them to, right . I have my suspicions. The Republican Party right now is having to contend with a lot of craziness of its own making. Democrats in Congress Today basically called the question on Marjorie Taylor greene, insisting that House Republicans have to strip her Committee Assignments. Marjorie Taylor Greene is the protrump republican congresswoman who says 9 11 didnt really happen and neither did the Mass Shootings of children at parkland and florida or sandy hook in connecticut. She also says donald trump won reelection and so, i guess joe biden isnt really the president. For her first days in congress, she wore a mask in the House Of Representatives that said, trump won democrats today told republicans, basically, that if republicans dont take her off her Committee Assignments within 72 hours, they will do it themselves, and they have the power to do it. Interestingly, tonight, in a surprise move, the Top Republican in the senate, Mitch Mcconnell, released a statement calling Congresswoman Greene a cancer and saying she doesnt live in reality. Senator mcconnell, apparently, supports the idea that republicans need to cut her off, cut off this kind of insanity from the rest of the party. But honestly, the news gods made tomorrow Groundhog Day for a reason, as the former president is still out there putting out statements that refuse to describe him as the former president. Apparently, he doesnt think hes a former president. As he is pushing to keep claiming that the election didnt really happen, and so, i guess, somehow, hes still secretly the president in exile. I mean, thats all happening right now, as the New York Times reports, newly, this weekend, that it was the white house, specifically, that changed the plan for the rally on january 6th, so that it would end with that pumpedup trump crowd being told that the election wasnt real, being told that the election was a fraud and that their country was being stolen from them. It was the Trump White Houses decision that that rally should end with that crowd marching up to the capitol. That was not the Rally Organizers planned. That was not the plan for any of the groups that got the permits for the rally. That was what the Trump White House specifically insisted. That the rally would end with that crowd being sicked on the u. S. Capitol, because that is what the president wanted. And thats what hes going on trial for. More ahead. Stay with us. Ng on trial for. More ahead stay with us like you, my hands are everything to me. But i was diagnosed with dupuytrens contracture. And it got to the point where things i took for granted got tougher to do. Thought surgery was my only option. Turns out i was wrong. So when a Hand Specialist told me about nonsurgical treatments, it was a total game changer. Like you, my hands have a lot more to do. Learn more at factsonhand. Com today. The former president , President Trump, was so involved in the planning of the rally in washington on january 6th, the one that culminated in the attack on the u. S. Capitol, that he was personally handpicking the playlist. According to remarkable, new reporting in the New York Times, the rally on january 6th that culminated in the attack on the capitol, for all intents and purposes, it was a white house production with President Trump, himself, involved with everything down to selecting the speaking lineup and selecting their walkon music. And it was the Trump White House, too, that decided the January 6th Rally would end with the crowd being told to march down to the u. S. Capitol. That march that, of course, turned into a violent insurrection attempt to Reinstall Donald Trump as president , despite the results of the last election. This bombshell, new report by Jim Rutenberg and the New York Times did the painstaking work of rebuilding what happened brick by brick what happened between the days of donald trump losing the election and the attack on the capitol to try to reinstate him. It starts from the start when President Trump pushed aside his Campaign Staff that were telling him he lost the election, to make way for conspiracywielding lawyers who would tell him what he wanted to hear and who promised to hand him a win at all costs. Mr. Rutenberg and his colleagues report on one exchange in the oval office where Rudy Giuliani told the president s Deputy Campaign manager he was a liar because he refused to believe and acknowledge that the election was stolen. In return, President Trumps Deputy Campaign manager, quote, called mr. Giuliani something much worse. Something much worse than a liar. This isnt only the story of the president and his lawyers, though. Its also a story of the leading republicans who fell in line with this operation to perpetuate this outrageous lie about the Election Results. And of course, it all results in this scene on january 6th. Quote, as the rally wound down in a cold drizzle, groups of young men wearing kevlar vests and helmets began appearing toward the back of the plaza. Some carried bats and clubs, others knives. One of the men with a line of stitches running through his ear told a reporter, were not backing down anymore. This is our country. Another holding a bat cut the conversation short. We know what to do with people like you, he said. Joining us now is Jim Rutenberg, writer at large for the New York Times, the lead byline in this remarkable piece of reporting called 77 days Trumps Campaign to subvert the election. Mr. Rutenberg, its a real honor to have you tonight. Thanks for taking time. Thank you so much for having me. Can you tell us a little bit about the decision about how to end the rally, this remarkable, to my mind, literally jawdropping reporting that it was at the insistence of the white house, specifically, that that rally would end with the march onto the capitol . Well, you know, its like a lot of these things where so, our reporting found, one of the organizers in interviews with us said, you know, he was shocked that it was going to be a march down to the capitol, because he had actually planned other rallies, and it always kind of wondered about, what about a march to the capitol . He always saw that as sort of unwieldy, so he was surprised to see that this is what the president was calling for, because lets not forget, the president , himself, is calling for this from the lectern. But really, by then, what people need to remember is that these rallies were being planned by an outside group women for america first. They were kind of like the standin for Trumps Campaign, but theyre operating separately from the trump world, presumably. But when the president decides that hes going to speak at this rally on january 6th, it very much effectively becomes a white house production. But one other thing ill note is, if one looks at the permit, the permit very specifically said that they were not permitted to march down to the capitol. It was acknowledged that some people went to the rally may go down there, but the permit very specifically has language that this is not a permit for a march to the capitol. And jim, it is remarkable to see you and your colleagues lay out the extent to which this was not so much an ad hoc effort. It seemed to evolve over time, but it was not ad hoc. It was coordinated. There was a somewhat orderly effort under way to try to get the Election Results overturned. I wondered if it was your sense in reporting this that that ultimate aim, that radical, and i think many people would say seditious aim to overthrow the results of the election and keep trump in power, is that something that was suggested to the president and others were leading it and he went along with it, or was that very core idea his from the outset . You know, it seems to me, we called it at one point a kind of symphony of subversion. The president , as weve also previously reported, but certainly in this piece, is he was looking at anything, anything he could do. Hes trying to push the Justice Department to do his bidding. Hes trying to get governors to do his bidding. Hes trying to get secretaries of state to do his bidding. But whats interesting to me is we spent, believe me, hours going through tape of rallies and this, yes, very organized campaign to drive people down to the capitol on january 6th, and its almost like a its hard to know what even the people who were organizing this think is going to happen here, because a lot of the language is that sort of tea Party Rhetoric and Second Amendment rhetoric, and you know, 1776. Its revolutionary fervor. Nobodys saying, go commit violence, but theres talk of martial law, perhaps, and we need to take our country back. Now, we also know that the president had been meeting with Lieutenant General Michael Flynn, who he had recently pardoned, his National Security adviser, and Michael Flynn had openly discussed martial law. So, effectively, everything was on the table in this, what was becoming an extralegal sort of campaign, absolutely. Jim rutenberg, writing at large for the New York Times, it is a remarkable reconstruction of what happened. It being laid out in public ahead of the president going on trial is going to be a service to those of us who are trying to follow his accountability through that Impeachment Trial, but its also just a service to history. Congratulations to you and your colleagues on this. This is really a landmark thing. Thanks so much. All right, more to come tonight. Stay with us. Ight, more to come tonight. Stay with us they have businesses to grow customers to care for lives to get home to they use stamps. Com print discounted postage for any letter any package any time right from your computer all the services of the Post Office Plus ups only cheaper get our special tv offer a 4week trial plus postage and a digital scale go to stamps. Com tv and never go to the post office again. Across all of the countrys 11 time zones, they showed up all day yesterday. They chanted putin is a chief. Russians braving minus 40degree weather. They formed a massive circle on the frozen bay in the port city of vladivostok, fended off police for hours until the riot police slowly descended onto the ice. 4,500 miles to the west, protesters marched in the background of this Art Installation in the lower lefthand corner that says who are we, where are we coming from, where do we go . This is the second weekend in a row russians protested the treatment of Opposition Leader alexei navalny, recovered from an Assassination Attempt by the russian government and then returned home to moscow, vowing not to give up the fight. They arrested him when he landed. Over 5,000 people were arrested at the protests for him this weekend. Russias signaling that they want to keep navalny in jail for as long as possible. Well see what happens, but the new administration here is like night and day compared to the weird putin apologies and excuses we saw from the white house for the last four years. Reported bounties on American Troops in afghanistan. Were looking into all of these things. All of them are under review. And depending on the findings of those reviews, we will take steps to stand up for our interests and stand against russian aggressive actions. New Secretary Of State Antony Blinken speaking with nbcs Andrea Mitchell today. What a difference. Watch this space. 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Bounce forward with comcast business. Get started with a powerful internet and voice solution for just 64. 90 a month. Plus, for a limited time, ask how to get a 500 prepaid card when you upgrade. Switch today. That is going to do it for me tonight. Again, thanks for your forbearance about me broadcasting from home again this evening. It is nothing to worry about. I am literally just snowed in. It is not safe to be on the road where im at tonight. Its just this big snowstorm. Ill be back in the Student Dwroe tomorrow night and ill see you then. Way too earl with kasie hunt is next. Today President Biden met with ten will be senators about their kroevd relief pan. They want about 600 billion in aid, while democrats want 1. 9 trillion. Yeah. The meeting got heated. According to the transcript, President Biden shouted 12 come on mans and 19 give me a breaks. Actually, republicans said the meeting was cordial and the talks will continue. What a contrast with the last administration. Both sides still far apart on the details, so the question is, are democrats prepared to go it alone . Plus, Mitch Mcconnell rebukes georgias qanon